I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Off-Topic => Political Debates - Thick Skin Required for Entry => Topic started by: Bill Peckham on March 07, 2017, 10:56:05 AM
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The most expensive house ever sold in the US is as good a place to start as anywhere. Trump buys a Florida mansion for 41.5 million dollars, sells it two years later for 95 million to a Russian oligarch with profound ties to Putin who then decides it is such a shit hole that it needs to be torn down.
What is the innocent explanation for Rybolovlev/Putin overpaying Trump?
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It is useful, when trying to understand the Trump/Russia connection, to really think about what Putin wants:
1. The dissolution of NATO and of the EU. This is why he has funded Marine Le Pen and has had his people hack into Emmanuel Macron's campaign. There are allegations that Russian helped to influence the Brexit vote. I don't know if that's really true, but there are allegations for a reason. We know for a fact that they hacked both the RNC and DNC but chose to leak emails only from the DNC. The emails leaked were only embarrassing, but put "emails" and "hacked" and "Hillary Clinton" into the same talking point, and this just reinforces that idea that she was "untrustworthy", so yeah, the Russians DID influence the vote, and Trump becomes President.
2. The dropping of sanctions. I don't know if Trump will get his way with this because many GOP Congresspeople are very anti-Putin, but by god, this is a big deal for Putin.
3. The destruction of the democratic process in the US so that his own "electorate" (like they have a choice!) can see how much better of they are, despite their lack of democracy.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/donald-trump-russia-media-235755
4. Putin also wants to be very, very rich. Follow the money.
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Trump personally met with Russian ambassador during campaign
https://thinkprogress.org/trump-personally-met-with-russian-ambassador-during-campaign-cc59ae305032#.mcxntpxnc
I don't have a Wall Street Journal subscription so I can not read the original post:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-goes-his-own-way-with-vladimir-putin-1463172396
Donald Trump has claimed repeatedly that he has had no contact with Russian officials as a presidential candidate.
He was lying.
Trump personally met with the Russian ambassador on April 27, 2016, prior to a major foreign policy speech. The Wall Street Journal (https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-goes-his-own-way-with-vladimir-putin-1463172396), in a report that was little-noticed at the time but was recently picked up by AMERICABlog News, reported the meeting last year.
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There is something rotten in trumpville. Every time something is reveled that may lead back to home he starts tweeting fabricated nes stories about how some person for unknown reasons has done this to him. When the press calls him on his fabricatin (it's a nicer way to say lies) he bans them from the White House. Claims Obama was wire tapping him, the list is endless. I don't know if he has done anything wrong but where there smoke there fire, I imagine visibility is lacking at the White House from all it he smoke trump is blowing. The deniers may claim there is no proof, but what is being asked is that a impartial investigation is conducted. Never before has a foreign pow so influenced a American national election, and never berfor has a candidate and his team had such extensive contacts with a enemy of this countries. By the way this is made more difficult because the overreach of the Ken Starr investigation into Bill Clinton turned into a debacle. The smoke needs to be cleared from around the White House, a good start would be the release of trumps taxes and a new independent prosecutor.
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I am so amazed that the congress does not want to put a stop to this nonsense. Seems that no one can stand up to the Bully called Trump !!
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When you figure this one out... lets figure out the Obama/Iran connection! Make them a deal with little or no oversight regarding Nuclear power, Give them over a billion dollars CASH in the middle of the night with a ransom prisoner exchange. ??? How dumb can we get?
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When you figure this one out... lets figure out the Obama/Iran connection! Make them a deal with little or no oversight regarding Nuclear power, Give them over a billion dollars CASH in the middle of the night with a ransom prisoner exchange. ??? How dumb can we get?
That's already been figured out! Keep up!!!
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No, it has already been covered up. Like a cat covers its sh$$$!
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No, it has already been covered up. Like a cat covers its sh$$$!
Rerun, you're just wrong. You can post this over and over, but it doesn't change the fact that it's incorrect.
I'm curious. Are you aware that other countries are involved in the Iran deal?
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The billion in cash was. Iranian money held by the Federal Reserve since 1976 the Fed does not ship a billion in cash publicly. What you are asking them to do is announce a billion dollar movement to cash prior to the transfer. That's like putting a big sign steal, me on the side of the truck. That kind of transfer does not happen over night but requires months of planning. This all stems from the settlement of Iranian nuclear ambitions. The Iranians only came to the bargaining table when it was announced the US had successfully tested a 15 ton ground penetrating harden bomb. Two of these beasts can be carried by a B2, they are guided bombs designed to penetrate 200 feet before exploding, they also are tested to pile drive this occurs after one bomb goes off another hits in the crater. Once this was announced the Iranians came to the table to negotiate rather then be pounded by the bombs. In 2003 the US invaded Iraq in a phoned war that cost many American lives, Israel pushed for that war. Now Israel wants us to invade Iran. The fact is the US seems to have good intelligence on the state of the Iranian nuclear developements. We still have the bombshell and are in the process of generating the next generation of these bunker busters.
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Yes, MM I am. Are YOU aware Russia is one of them? Oh, now I suppose you like "Vlad"? Good buddies?
Has the Nuclear deal improved relations with us? NO! Iran's behavior in the region is worse than ever. Now they have money to fund ISIS. Oh, good job.
Plus still holds Americans hostage. Get your head out of the "sand"....
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Yes, MM I am. Are YOU aware Russia is one of them? Oh, now I suppose you like "Vlad"? Good buddies?
Has the Nuclear deal improved relations with us? NO! Iran's behavior in the region is worse than ever. Now they have money to fund ISIS. Oh, good job.
Plus still holds Americans hostage. Get your head out of the "sand"....
Yes, of course I am aware that Russia is one of them, along with all of the members of the UN Security Council. Russia certainly doesn't want a nuclear Iran located so close to their own borders.
That Iran still holds American hostages is a disgrace, but if they had been released as a "bargaining chip" in the Nuclear deal, imagine the uproar! Aren't you already outraged about a "random hostage exchange"? I am hoping that Rex Tillerson and the State Department are holding negotiations with Iran to have these people released.
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Well if he calls Iran... he better watch his butt being accused of conspiring with a Foreign Government.
:stressed;
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Well if he calls Iran... he better watch his butt being accused of conspiring with a Foreign Government.
:stressed;
He's not doing anything.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/03/10/rex-tillerson-might-be-the-weakest-secretary-of-state-ever/
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It is making me subscribe. So.. Not.
I'm sure it is a mean article.
I'm sticking with President Trump! :cuddle;
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This Blind Trumism reminds me of the Nixon supporters in the early 70's. As the investigation unfolded the Nixonites became more and more convinced of his innocence. By the end they were dismayed by the complete disgrace of their hero. I am not saying trump is guilty yet, what I am saying is this is a matter that needs to be fairly and openly investigated. Not like the last two republican lead witch hunts the ken star debacle and the never ending Hilary congressional hearings. But with a investigation that says there is nothing here or one that begins to hand out indictments. One must know if trump is our president or if he is putins president,
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Yes, we will see. :thumbup;
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As far as I am concerned, both sides are guilty.
Just look at the huge donations the principals of Uranium One made to the Clinton Foundation just before they got state department approval for their big deal for US ore (no doubt so the Russians can fuel their nuclear power plans, it't not like they would use any of it to make nukes).
Both sides have one thing in common - ignoring the very acts by their own person they accuse the opposition of.
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False equivalency. Saying that "both sides are guilty" is a whitewashing over the enormity of the possible consequences of Trump's campaign's conversations with Russia who we all know received hacked information for WikiLeaks. Trump said that he loves WikiLeaks for a reason.
http://www.businessinsider.com/everything-we-know-about-the-hillary-clinton-russia-uranium-scandal-2015-4
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This is another fabricated right wing lie about a Clinton.
From snopes
May 2015 saw the publication of a book called Clinton Cash: The Untold Story of How and Why Foreign Governments and Businesses Helped Make Bill and Hillary Rich, an exposé of alleged Clinton Foundation corruption written by Peter Schweizer, a former Hoover Institution fellow and editor-at-large at the right-wing media company Breitbart.
A chapter in the book suggests that the Clinton family and Russia each may have benefited from a “pay-for-play” scheme while Hillary Clinton was secretary of state, involving the transfer of U.S. uranium reserves to the new Russian owners of an international mining operation in exchange for $145 million in donations to the Clinton Foundation.
The Uranium One deal was not Clinton’s to veto or approve
Among the ways these accusations stray from the facts is in attributing a power of veto or approval to Secretary Clinton that she simply did not have. Clinton was one of nine cabinet members and department heads that sit on the CFIUS, and the secretary of the treasury is its chairperson. CFIUS members are collectively charged with evaluating the transaction for potential national security issues, then turning their findings over to the president. By law, the committee can’t veto a transaction; only the president can. According to The New York Times, Clinton may not have even directly participated in the Uranium One decision. Then-Assistant Secretary of State Jose Fernandez, whose job it was to represent the State Dept. on CFIUS, said Clinton herself “never intervened” in committee matters.
The timing of most of the donations does not match
Of the $145 million allegedly contributed to the Clinton Foundation by Uranium One investors, the lion’s share — $131.3 million — came from a single donor, Frank Giustra, the company’s founder. But Giustra sold off his entire stake in the company in 2007, three years before the Russia deal and at least 18 months before Clinton became secretary of state.
If you think this is the equivalent off Trumps possible dealing withe the Russians you are sadly mistaken, look how Tump just fired the three most senior State Department employees who have served every president from Reagan, oh yes they have been the state department people charged with countering Russian expansion into neighboring countries.
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Yesterday the FBI confirmed there is an espionage investigation involving the White House.
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I'm pleased that it is ongoing. But very disturbed that it has been going on since before the election and no one bothered to tell the public. All the Trump people were so adamant about not voting for a candidate who was under FBI investigation when all that time it was Trump and not Hillary who was under investigation. Shame on Comey.
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Nobody, on either side, is interested in holding their candidate "accountable" for malfeasance, but everyone jumps on reasons why those on the other side should desert their candidate.
For example, I know K&S is from Massachusetts, and I suspect she votes Democrat (I respect her despite this). Chances are her state senator was in the vast majority that just voted itself a 40% (yes, 40%) pay raise. I doubt she, or any other die hard Democratic voter, will give his/her vote to the Republican at the next election to hold the senator "accountable" for this gross dereliction of duty, but would also be saying how Republicans should desert their senator if (s)he did the same thing.
It's just the way it is .... no need to pretend that "I would vote against my own candidate if (s)he did what your candidate did". It doesn't work that way.
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In 1973 Nixon was held to account because of the work of Republicans in Congress. Congressmen Hogan and Butler and Senator Baker put country before party.
Publicly going on record by voting for something or changing your public position on an issue is not in the same universe as hiding the nature and extent of contacts with a hostile foreign power. I think you are not so much equating apples and oranges as equating mosquitoes and grenades.
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Nobody, on either side, is interested in holding their candidate "accountable" for malfeasance, but everyone jumps on reasons why those on the other side should desert their candidate.
That's a sweeping generalization. You seem to be speaking on behalf of all of those who put party before country.
It's just the way it is .... no need to pretend that "I would vote against my own candidate if (s)he did what your candidate did". It doesn't work that way.
Really? Gosh. If "my" candidate committed a crime during a campaign, I wouldn't vote for that person, no way, no how.
The problem with the current president is he refuses to be held accountable for anything at any time. He takes no responsibility. I cannot stand that in any human being, much less in an American President.
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That's a sweeping generalization. You seem to be speaking on behalf of all of those who put party before country.
It is indeed a generalization, but generalizations are generally true.
This is why a veto proof majority of the Massachusetts legislature could vote themselves a 40% raise with absolute confidence that not a single one of them will lose come re-election time because of this chicanery. The simple truth is that people in MA, in general, value the Democratic agenda over ethical cleanliness.
The problem with the current president is he refuses to be held accountable for anything at any time. He takes no responsibility. I cannot stand that in any human being, much less in an American President.
Agreed,, but Clinton was poised to do damage that would affect things I value for a time far beyond her term. I do not want a SCOTUS judge who believed the US Constitution is a "living breathing document" as Sen Feinstein has advocated.
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I recently joined and this is my first post in this area. Some may not like me. I'm a hardcore conservative. I'm anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti- global warming, anti- heavy government and anti- PC. I'm pro- gun and a Christian. That's my 'resume'.
On to the president stuff. I did not vote for Trump in the primaries but am glad he is the President over Hillary She is a mastermind criminal. She...and her husband have killed dozens of people(I'm not talking Benghazi). There is a list out there of all the people that have mysteriously died around them. Then there's the emails, and the Clinton Foundation. I know I'm missing some as her list of crimes is long. Anyways on to Trump.
As said earlier I had/still have mixed feelings on Trump. I do believe he can fix our broken Country. Obama did enough damage to it. But he needs to calm down and act better then a spoiled child.
I really don't see what the big deal is with those that have talked to Russia(both sides). While the Russians may be involved exposing Hillary's email scandals, there is zero evidence Russia directly interfered with the actual election.
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Agreed,, but Clinton was poised to do damage that would affect things I value for a time far beyond her term. I do not want a SCOTUS judge who believed the US Constitution is a "living breathing document" as Sen Feinstein has advocated.
So you got your wish. How is that relevant to not holding the White House accountable for its actions?
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Most of the wailing of the right about expansionist judges is the application of the 14 the equal protection clause. It simply requires the government to treat all citizens the same. Which is why when Trumps flawed executive order was at the 9 Circxuit Court the three judge panel which had one very conservative judge the result was 3 to 0.
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In my opinion, the obvious influence pedaling with the "pay for access" regarding donations to the Clinton foundation is on par with teaming up with the Russians to win an election, possibly worse. But, as I have said before, each side will tend to downplay the evils committed by their side while fiercely condemning the evils of the other side. Both will say "Your side is so bad, you should have voted for the other candidate despite his/her opposition to your belief and value system."
As to all those victims of Arkanacide - I have no idea what involvement, if any, the Clintons had but being in a position where you death would be convenient for Hillary was a risk factor for death on par with ESRD.
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You must be pretty upset with the pay for access at Mar Lago, the DC hotel and the trademark ruling in china. What was the Quo suppose to be in the Clinton Foundation case? After the trademark case was settled in his favor Trump embraced the one China policy, what's the analogue with the Clinton Foundation?
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Hi Warborg,
Welcome to IHD and when I tell you that I feel the same as you do about Trump and so does Rerun ( I am certain you will soon meet her ) believe me, I am sincere. Enjoy our posts and all the information any one could want to find out. Again, :welcomesign; to IHD, we are glad to have you.
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Breaking News:
Intelligence Services have found a coloring book in the Oval Office that appears to be the President's Granddaughters. DNA tests are being run this morning. The child complied with the swab for DNA. The coloring book appears to have drawings of the grandchild that appears to be the Russian Kremlin. It has windows in the drawing around the same places. There were scribbles that looked like a map of Crimea, the war torn area that Russia has invaded. There was also found a pack of color crayons that also had, blue, red and white in the box which ARE the colors of the Russian Flag. Investigations will be on going. Senator McCain (R) wants an independent criminal investigation. What has this child seen to use such colors? Maybe overheard conversations or glimpses of emails? FBI said they will get to the bottom of this. They plan to follow the money.
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No, the coloring books belong to Trump; they were given to him by KellyAnn Conway in an attempt to keep him off Twitter.
Seriously, though, all of this could have been avoided had not 1. Rudy Guliani proudly insinuated that he was privy to some super secret intel about Hillary Clinton and 2. had not Trump accused his predecessor of a felony. Those were two massive own goals.
And here's the funny part. After all of the hoopla and investigations of Hillary Clinton, nothing was found, but that didn't matter because it left the public with the PERCEPTION that she did something wrong. This whole Russia thing is functioning just like the Hillary Clinton email debacle. It may well come to pass that there is nothing found that's of a criminal nature, but it doesn't matter because it has left the public with the perception that he is reckless with his phony accusations and that there were campaign operatives who were working with a foreign enemy to bring down a political opponent.
Hillary Clinton, before the entire nation, said that she regretted using a private server. She at least admitted her mistake. Trump will NEVER admit to a mistake, ESPECIALLY ones of this magnitude. That's the nature of that particular beast. He could use some quiet coloring time.
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Hillary Clinton, before the entire nation, said that she regretted using a private server. She at least admitted her mistake. Trump will NEVER admit to a mistake, ESPECIALLY ones of this magnitude. That's the nature of that particular beast. He could use some quiet coloring time.
During the Iowa State Fair, Hillary Clinton was asked about whether the FBI’s discovery of top-secret emails were the laughing matter she made it last night during her speech at the Wing-Dings Dinner. Clinton once again responded that she never received nor sent any emails with information marked “classified” and said she would let the Department of Justice carry on with its investigation
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/hillary-denies-once-again-i-never-received-or-sent-classified-emails/
The only reason she finally admitted to it was because she was caught red-handed
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You know what, Warborg, (I am a massive ST fan, btw), Hillary Clinton is not president. Donald Trump is, with the help of Vladimir Putin, the leader of a foreign enemy, so why don't we focus on THAT? There is absolutely nothing that anyone could say against Hillary Clinton that even approaches the damage that Donald Trump has done to our democracy with the help of that monster, Steve Bannon. For Donald Trump to accuse his predecessor of a felony in a moment of pique is more than "childish behavior"; it is a deep and profound character flaw and gives us an insight of his mental health. You can't deflect our attention away from this horror with blatherings about Hillary Clinton's emails.
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You can't deflect our attention away from this horror with blatherings about Hillary Clinton's emails.
Forget the emails. A bigger issue is that Clinton sold access to foreign potentates. Just look at the Uranium One deal - lucrative deal to sell uranium ore to the Russians when their company just happened to be making multi-million dollar donations to the Clinton Foundation.
We're not talking about info from Brietbart or some internet conspiracy pundit, but the NY Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html
There is enough sleaze on both sides to go around.
The former MA senate president just got out of federal prison after doing time for accepting $60k to his law firm in return for steering a software contract to the state, but millions laundered through a family foundation is simply "business as usual - if you want to play, you have to pay".
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Personally if a coloring book was found I think it belonged to the Donald. After this week I bet he would find solace staying within the lines.
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Its really starting to feel to me like this thing will blow up and maybe yes Trump or his people were "wiretapped" during the campaign because they were talking to agents of foreign government (political or intelligence people) whom we monitor their conversations. I doubt they were wiretapped because they were on Trump's team but instead they were wiretapped because they were talking to people of interest to US intelligence.
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If you call Russian agents you should not be surprised that you end up on a wire tap. Plus Flynn has announced he will testify with immunity. A couple of months ago he announced the the only reason to ask for immunity is you are guilty.
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If you call Russian agents you should not be surprised that you end up on a wire tap. Plus Flynn has announced he will testify with immunity. A couple of months ago he announced the the only reason to ask for immunity is you are guilty.
I KNOW!!! LOL!
Russia hacked the campaigns of candidates who were running against Trump. There is proof of that. The question is who in the US helped them.
The bottom line is that what with a minority of votes AND with the assistance of Russian hackers and spreaders of false information that was fed by them to the American electorate, Donald Trump is not a legitimate president.
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Something stinks to high heaven about this entire situation. We may need to start thinking in terms of what happens after a Trump resignation where Pence as the default president grants him a pardon. It seems like the more Trump and his administration of clowns try to put this issue behind them, the more cans of worms they open up. Lock him up! What a sad day for America.
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Detailed mapping of all the connections:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/trump-russia/
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Something I haven't seen talked about is how successful the Russian operation would have been if Clinton had won.
The testimony yesterday (https://youtu.be/mN2L12K3v8Y) in front of the Senate Intelligence Committee by former FBI agent Clint Watts was amazing. He pointed out that the Russian operation to sow confusion and acrimony in the electorate was wildly successful because Trump echoed and reinforced the Russian message, the primary one being that the election was rigged. The Russians did the same stuff they always do but this time it was amplified by the now President of the US. Imagine if instead Trump was the narrowly defeated presidential candidate.
Imagine if Clinton had won. The lines would be drawn. The election was rigged and any questioning of the coordination between the Trump and Russia is just made up political revenge. The Clinton administration would be hamstrung, particularly if the composition of Congress is the same in this alternate reality. It is easy for me to imagine that the situation would seem to be magnitudes more out of control and fraught, than it does today. That outcome would have allowed Russia realize their goal and made it an unhoped-for success. Now they have their message amplifier in the White House the calculus is very different, Trump is magnitudes more exposed than if he was instead a former candidate. There are so many loose threads and so many people pulling on them, while he is leading the government that is wholly in republican control, it is hard to see how Trump will not be laid naked.
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Amazing "FBI Director James Comey has been fired."
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Yes, because apparently Pres. Trump didn't like the way Comey treated Hillary Clinton's email investigation.
I am officially frightened of this Administration. I can't help it. This is really scary. This is really all about obstructing the investigation of any Russian connections to the campaign.
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This is really scary. This is really all about obstructing the investigation of any Russian connections to the campaign.
... That's exactly what I was wondering about as well...
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Yes , that's exactly why all of congress is afraid of Trump ! If he doesn't like what someone is doing , they are gone. ,! King 👑 Trump wins again ! I just can't believe this is happening here in the US. We have a dictator for a president and no one in power can challenge him , he just says " your fired ". The whole family is crooked and we seem to be stuck with it !
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The end of the Trump Dynasty is not impossible, Flynn the Toady asked for immunity and there was no rush to give it to him. The DOD can have the army recall him to active duty, arrest him charge him with receiving money from a foreign power. It's illegal for a general office to accept money from a foreign government. If called to active duty he can be court martial Ed on charges relating to this activity. If convicted the one chance he has to stay out of Levenworth is to roll on trump.if it happens trump will be out of office quickly.
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Not one shred of evidence Trump had anything to do with Russia. The Dems wanted Comey to step down and now that Trump fired him the Dems are mad. That shows what idiots they are.
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Thinking the same thing my self ReRun. Funny how anything Trump does is investigated and never pleases the Dems. Ad it never will. It would be nice to go back to the time when Obama was elected and the things his wife did, such as the miserable school lunches and his "lack of a birth certificate" and on and on. How quickly we forget, you Democrats. Certainly Hillary Clinton's family is as crooked as it can be, but still, some wanted Mommy to be "the Boss". Sorry, but you lost. Get over it.
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Comey listed the crimes Hillary did, but then did not charge her because there was no "intent". I bet the people that are in jail for doing the same thing or less are beyond pissed. I hope the new Director puts her in jail. Lock her up!
If Comey ends up dead they will blame Trump when it will be the Clintons' trail of bodies.
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Comey listed the crimes Hillary did, but then did not charge her because there was no "intent". I bet the people that are in jail for doing the same thing or less are beyond pissed. I hope the new Director puts her in jail. Lock her up!
If Comey ends up dead they will blame Trump when it will be the Clintons' trail of bodies.
The operative term is Arkanacide.
The best description I heard was "like OK firing judge Ito in the middle of the trial".
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Russia Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov meets with Tillerson and Trump.
http://boingboing.net/2017/05/10/russia-foreign-minister-sergey.html
Russia's ITAR-TASS news agency cameras were let in to Lavrov/Trump meeting today. U.S press was kept out. The Russian press was allowed in.
and
QUESTION: Does the Comey firing cast a shadow of your talks, gentlemen?
FOREIGN MINISTER LAVROV: Was he fired?
QUESTION: Yes.
FOREIGN MINISTER LAVROV: You are kidding. You are kidding.
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I really have no idea what any statement on Hillary has to do with the question why did some many of Trumps people have illegal meetings with Russian folks? This thread is taking about the Russian connections to Trump.
Maybe we need another thread where you can talk about Hillary's perceived crimes so we can stay on topic here?
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Is this why Comey was fired? What are they trying to cover up?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/10/us/politics/comey-russia-investigation-fbi.html?_r=0
Days before he was fired, James B. Comey, the former F.B.I. director, asked the Justice Department for a significant increase in resources for the bureau’s investigation into Russia’s interference in the presidential election, according to three congressional officials who were briefed on his request.
...
The timing of Mr. Comey’s request is not clear-cut evidence that his firing was related to the Russia investigation. But it is certain to fuel bipartisan criticism that President Trump appeared to be meddling in an investigation that had the potential to damage his presidency.
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Nope, this has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton. This has everything to do with Russia.
Remember, Jeff Sessions recused himself from anything and everything having to do with an investigation on Trump's campaign's ties with Russia. So, since he recommended that Trump fire Comey, he can't SAY or refer to the Russian investigation in any way, and THAT is why the AG, the asst. AG and Trump are muttering on about Clinton.
Seriously, if Trump and/or the DOJ had any real argument with Comey because of his handling of the email investigation, why did Trump praise Comey during the campaign, kiss him on his first day in office, or at the very least, not fire him immediately?
In summary, I agree with iolaire. Some folks here are letting themselves be distracted from the most dangerous and blatant attempt by a foreign government to destroy our democracy, our freedom and the ideals of the Constitution. But no....Hillary Clinton's email server is the culprit. ::)
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But it is certain to fuel bipartisan criticism that President Trump appeared to be meddling in an investigation that had the potential to damage his presidency.
And there you have it. This will cripple the entire Administration for its duration. This is madness.
I voted for Hillary Clinton, but I was afraid that if she did become president, her critics would dog her for her entire 4 years in office. I was almost certain that Congress would do nothing for four years but hold one investigation after another, and nothing would get done.
But what is happening now is far worse than anything I had imagined would happen during Trump's administration. Trump has fired just about everyone that was working on the Russian investigation. I can scarcely believe what is going on.
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This will cripple the entire Administration for its duration.
It will make no difference.
No Republican senator/congressmen will vote against trump because of this, and the Democrats will continue to be against him.
All that will happen is that Democrats will scream "you should turn on your man" while Republicans reply with "doesn't matter".
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No Republican senator/congressmen will vote against trump because of this, and the Democrats will continue to be against him.
All that will happen is that Democrats will scream "you should turn on your man" while Republicans reply with "doesn't matter".
I don't know if that will be true in the end. I don't see Trump as a Republican. He is apart. That's why so many people voted for him; he is not "establishment". Voters have taken a chance with him, and I think everyone will come to see that he has no interest in governing, rather, his interest is only in himself. You don't have to be either R or D to see this. If Congresspeople of either party want what is best for the integrity of American democracy, they won't just shrug and say it "doesn't matter".
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I wish we the people could take up a vote to Fire Trump ! :Kit n Stik;
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Let's face it the militant wing of the Republican Party succeeded in having a bigly traitor elected Presidunce. The Clintons have absolutely no involvement in this farce. Trump wants to stick his head up his butt and hope this blows over. It is only a matter of time till we have a reply oNixon leaving the White House.
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EEEEEK! Every time I turn around, there's more BREAKING NEWS!!!!!!!!!!
We're not only looking at possible collusion between Trump's campaign and the Russians (did you all see Trump allowing the Russian foreign minister and Ambassador into the Oval Office yesterday? Lavrov was laughing at us!), but we also have to consider impeding the course of justice charges at some point.
If only Trump had released his tax returns.
If only Trump has listened to Obama's warnings about Flynn which, we now see, were given in good faith.
My fear is this; we have a Republican led Congress who have decided they've made a deal with the Devil. They will protect Trump from investigation and impeachment, and in return Trump will sign any garbage legislation they put in front of him.
How much time and money was spent investigating Hillary Clinton's emails? How many days went by when there was not some GOP led questioning on TV? But when Comey asks for more money to spend on the Russia investigation, he was FIRED!
And now it is at the point where it doesn't matter if, in the end, there is no there, there. There was no there, there, with the emails nor with Benghazi. But the electorate saw the images and heard the rhetoric over and over and over and over for years. As a result, I don't think she could have been an effective President had she been elected by a majority of voters. (Oh, wait...)
We are seeing the same thing playing out now. This Presidency has been destroyed.
And we may well see a President Pence and a First Mother. That's not the brightest alternative now, is it!
The idea of Sean Spicer hiding behind the bushes so as not to have to answer the media's questions is a priceless Melissa McCarthy moment.
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I wish we the people could take up a vote to Fire Trump ! :Kit n Stik;
You would LOSE again! Would that help you accept "the peoples vote"??
I worked for the Government for 20 years and I can tell you no Director EVER did any of the work. The Minions do....
Nothing will change in the FBI except the "Figure Head". This "investigation" has been going on for how many months now and they have no evidence.
:stressed;
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they have no evidence
You're wrong about that. There is a ton of evidence. But it's very complicated and international and they wanted to present an open and shut case. This takes time. Dealing with a bunch of crooks takes time. The corruption in this administration is pervasive and deep.
And, BTW, only a tiny fraction of "the peoples' vote actually put this jerk in office(and his "stellar" crew).
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There is enough evidence to put Flynn in prison. The law is clear no retired general officer may receive payments from foreign governments without permission from the DOD. Flynn never reported the money so he could not have permission. Flynn can be recalled to active service, court martialed, and sent to Leavenworth. Now Flynn has been trying to get a immunity deal to avoid this. Every time Trump hears a question about Flynn he seems to go nuts. The reaction is so extreme it appears Flynn has information damaging to Trump.the evidence I'd circumstantial but it's clear enough to any one but a trump lover that he is guilty. This is beginning to look like water gate redo.
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There was plenty of evidence to put someone else in jail but it didn't happen.
I'm not allowed to say her name in this post.
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Conservative Republican Justin Amash Signs Onto Bill For An Independent Russia Investigation
The Freedom Caucus member is only the second Republican to join Democrats on the bill, which would create an independent, nonpartisan commission to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 election.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/lissandravilla/conservative-republican-justin-amash-signs-onto-bill-for-an?utm_term=.po1WpmlaeN#.ru5RzVXoa3
and
The legislation Amash has signed on to was introduced by Democratic Reps. Eric Swalwell and Elijah Cummings in December. It was reintroduced in the House and introduced in the Senate at the start of the new Congress in January. But it has stalled without significant Republican support.
...
Although Amash’s signature lends some GOP credence to the the bill, it is still a long way from passage.
So as a reminder for well over half a year numerous Trump officials have seemed to have had illegal relationships with Russian parties (to the point where these people were possibly picked up on wire taps of Russian spies). Additionally the global intelligence community believes that Russia directly tried to influence the outcome of our presidential election, and some Trump team members knew negative information would be released prior to it being released. A non guilt person would accept nonpartisan probes. So the question is why is the main Republican leadership worried of forming a commission?
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Well, I'm thinking you will be very disappointed.
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Well, I'm thinking you will be very disappointed.
That's a legitimate hope based on outcomes of recent history of commissions and investigations. It would be a good outcome. But the preponderance of what gets leaked sure makes it look like something is up.
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Rerun it took several years to get Nixon but got him they did. This investigation has been underway less than 6 months.that is if you include the time republicans have been stalling. But the honest republicans are not lining up to block this investigation so there is hope for this congress if not now in 2018 if the democrats take the house. My prediction is Trump impeached before 2019.
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Thirteen reasons why the Russian probe should be expanded:
1. Russian interference in the 2012 Election.
2. Russian penetration of New York Democratic Party machine.
3. Thomas Pickering and Russian and Iranian interests.
4. John Podesta and $35 million from a Russian industrial espionage firm.
5. Tony Podesta lobbied for criminal Russian bank.
6. Podesta Group lobbied for same pro-Kremlin Ukrainians as Manafort.
7. Uranium One: Sale of 20% of US Uranium Production to Russia.
8. David and Simon Reuben.
9. Viktor Pinchuk.
10. Hunter Biden and the pro-Kremlin Ukrainian oligarch.
11. Hillary Clinton ‘Reset’ Partner Medvedev, now a focal point of Russian corruption.
12. Skolkovo industrial espionage and missile development.
13. Crowdstrike: Source of the narrative on Russian hacking for Trump.
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One can be confident that those demanding an investigation of the Trump/Russia connection have no interest in seeing the Clinton foundation/Russian Uraniun one connection investigated. This is all partisan posturing - on both sides.
Thirteen reasons why the Russian probe should be expanded:
1. Russian interference in the 2012 Election.
2. Russian penetration of New York Democratic Party machine.
3. Thomas Pickering and Russian and Iranian interests.
4. John Podesta and $35 million from a Russian industrial espionage firm.
5. Tony Podesta lobbied for criminal Russian bank.
6. Podesta Group lobbied for same pro-Kremlin Ukrainians as Manafort.
7. Uranium One: Sale of 20% of US Uranium Production to Russia.
8. David and Simon Reuben.
9. Viktor Pinchuk.
10. Hunter Biden and the pro-Kremlin Ukrainian oligarch.
11. Hillary Clinton ‘Reset’ Partner Medvedev, now a focal point of Russian corruption.
12. Skolkovo industrial espionage and missile development.
13. Crowdstrike: Source of the narrative on Russian hacking for Trump.
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The Clinton Russian Uranium connection is bogus.
1 the process started under Bush not Obama.
2. The chairman of the committee voting on the issue was the treasury cabinet secretary not the Secretary of State,
3 when Clinton became a member of the committee she delegated a under secretary to attend and vote not her
4 the real vote took place prior to her tenure.
5 this is another example of facts being bent to tarnish Clintons reputation injustly.
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The Clinton Russian Uranium connection is bogus.
1 the process started under Bush not Obama.
2. The chairman of the committee voting on the issue was the treasury cabinet secretary not the Secretary of State,
3 when Clinton became a member of the committee she delegated a under secretary to attend and vote not her
4 the real vote took place prior to her tenure.
5 this is another example of facts being bent to tarnish Clintons reputation injustly.
Just another example of how Hillary is evil if it relates to Russia, but the Russians meeting with people on Trump's campaign is a non issue to some. You never see them care one iota that Trump's team lies to congress, violates laws by acting as foreign agents well on the Trump team, etc... Its very clear from Trumps ratings that people do care.
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What really enrages is me is Lieutenant General Michael Flynn who went from head of the Defence Intelligence Agency to a unregistered Agent of two foreign governments. Despite the fact as a retired Army O-9 he is required to get permission from the Defence Department to accept any money from a foreign source. Then the Trumpet section attacks Hillary instead of being outraged by the fact a senior military Intelligence officer signs on as a agent of a foreign power. Since this crap occurred under the current Presidunce to the Trumpets this is no problem. The hipocracy of the Trumpets is unbelievable. Trump ran on repeal and replace Obama care with a better plan that would be cheaper more coverage and protect the people with serious medical issues and protect preexisting conditions. While not yet scored by the CBO the plan throws 24 million off medical coverage, guts Medicaid and Medicare. Trump said anything that would get him elected. The man lies like a rug. While he is firing Comey to stop the investigation of his Campaign personnel he is meeting wit the Russian Foreign Ministor and the Russian Ambasador , the Ambasador who is considered by the FBI and the CIA as the head Russian Intelligence in the US. Trump doesn't allow American photographers in to take photos of this meeting but allows the Russians to take the photos that were shown every where as the Comey firing story broke. The best part is the Presidunce was shocke the Russians released the photos. Face it we have a dishonest moron as our leader. The Trumpets refuse to see or admit the Emperor has no brain or ethics.
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Face it we have a dishonest moron as our leader.
Well said.
I found it quite comical to hear the stories of Spicer hiding in or "among" the bushes trying to get away from the reporters so he didn't have spout more falsehoods which Mr. Trump would immediately make sound false as he spouted more incorrect information.
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I rarely come out here, but saw this from Trump today:
'James Comey better hope that there are no "tapes" of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!'
Why would he say that if he has nothing to hide?
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I think I can tell you why Deanne.
In a recent Quinnipiac University Poll where Trump's approval rating was found to be 36% they also asked the question: What comes to mind when you think of Donald Trump. The top 3 answers were idiot, incompetent and liar.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/05/10/asked-to-describe-trump-americas-most-common-replies-are-idiot-and-incompetent/?utm_term=.2ad3403e66e7
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Actually Spicer was beating the bushes to find the truth. Unfortunately he found out he is working for a idiot.
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Man you couldn't make this stuff up
http://fortune.com/2017/01/11/donald-trumps-morgan-lewis-russia-award/
Morgan, Lewis & Bockius, the law firm advising President-elect Donald Trump, won the Russia Law Firm of the Year award in 2016.
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Man you couldn't make this stuff up
http://fortune.com/2017/01/11/donald-trumps-morgan-lewis-russia-award/
Morgan, Lewis & Bockius, the law firm advising President-elect Donald Trump, won the Russia Law Firm of the Year award in 2016.
Dear me, am I right in suspecting now that FBI director Mr. James Comey was investigating a little too thoroughly about "things" ?
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Dear me, am I right in suspecting now that FBI director Mr. James Comey was investigating a little too thoroughly about "things" ?
It will be interesting to hear the recordings and read the memos.... Also sad to see for the second year in a row when the Turks met with our US president Turkish suites assumed to be Turkish security forces beat up Turkish protesters here in DC (they did the same when meeting with Obama)...
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The whole thing makes me sad . Can't believe what is going on in our White House . How much lower can it get ?
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Since you guys don't watch FOX News or Listen to talk radio, I will enlighten you.
Seth Rich who was a DNC staffer, was found dead in his apartment about a year ago and it was considered a suicide or robbery yet his wallet was still there. Well, his family said "no way". So they hired a PI and he found that Seth was communicating with Wikileaks. His computer has disappeared so .... not sure yet if it can be traced. This PI got a threatening phone call from a guy from the DNC wanting to know why he was snooping around.
Looks like Seth Rich was the leak about Hillary to Wikileaks. So, another dead body in the Clinton line. I sure hope this is vetted and comes out.
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To paraphrase a moron, Seth Ridge is fake news, it's amazing the stories the far right. Will spin to protect the moron in chief.
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Since you guys don't watch FOX News or Listen to talk radio, I will enlighten you.
Seth Rich who was a DNC staffer, was found dead in his apartment about a year ago and it was considered a suicide or robbery yet his wallet was still there. Well, his family said "no way". So they hired a PI and he found that Seth was communicating with Wikileaks. His computer has disappeared so .... not sure yet if it can be traced. This PI got a threatening phone call from a guy from the DNC wanting to know why he was snooping around.
Looks like Seth Rich was the leak about Hillary to Wikileaks. So, another dead body in the Clinton line. I sure hope this is vetted and comes out.
I hope it is vetted and comes out, too. But I don't know what this has to do with Trump's current profound difficulties.
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The term is Arkanacide.
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Seems like every time Trump gets painted in a corner he tries to put the focus on Hillary , she is old news just like the election . The focus right now is on you Mr Trump !!
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Seems like every time Trump gets painted in a corner he tries to put the focus on Hillary , she is old news just like the election . The focus right now is on you Mr Trump !!
I know! Hilary's time is past for most liberals but for some reason she is the conservative answer whenever Trump's team exposes yet another treasonous activity.
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Because he knows that his mouth-breathing supporters HATE Hillary. So she's always a good scapdgoat.
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Instead of Commander in Chief, the Presidunce has turned into the Whiner in Chief. It's almost like Trump didn't really go to a American High School. He is surprised when ever his absolute power has limits.
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He may have flunked history class and social studies.
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Worse then flunked it's as if he never took them or at 70 the dementia is setting in.
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The same crowd that hates bullying and supports all the people who "think" differently are taunting Trump and kicking him in the back and when on the ground will kick him and hit him until death. Yet, welcome Chelsea (Bradly) Manning out of prison (thank you Obummer). Maybe Chelsea Manning would make a better president. It would not surprise me a bit if she/he were elected.
OMG Trump had two scoops of ice cream! That is worth impeachment!! What the HELL is wrong with you people?? Hillary did 10 times worse than what Trump is "accused" of. You guys are such Hippocrates. Hillary? that is OLD news ... and in the same breath you bring up Watergate? You guys are so grasping for the last straws you have. I hope NO dems get elected back into office. Nancy Polsi can sell flowers on the corner.
When Trump is cleared of this you will be on to him for eating a salad for lunch with a little cheese on the side.
:Kit n Stik;
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Trump could make this go away quickly by cooperating. He has done the opposite. No tax returns. Flynn Scandal. Nunes Scandal. Comey Scandal. Sessions Recusal. He behaves totally like someone trying to obstruct an investigation. He is caught red handed flip flopping and lying about these issues. What will be funny is when he is forced to deliver the tapes he has of his and Comey's conversations or admit it was a lie that they even exist. Which one do you think it will be. And if there really is tape, what do they really say. Trump has shot his credibility by lying so much. He blames his staff when he is the idiot out there making stuff up on the spur of the moment that contradicts what his people are saying. This even happened with Pence in regards to the Comey firing.
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The same crowd that hates bullying and supports all the people who "think" differently are taunting Trump and kicking him in the back and when on the ground will kick him and hit him until death. Yet, welcome Chelsea (Bradly) Manning out of prison (thank you Obummer). Maybe Chelsea Manning would make a better president. It would not surprise me a bit if she/he were elected.
OMG Trump had two scoops of ice cream! That is worth impeachment!! What the HELL is wrong with you people?? Hillary did 10 times worse than what Trump is "accused" of. You guys are such Hippocrates. Hillary? that is OLD news ... and in the same breath you bring up Watergate? You guys are so grasping for the last straws you have. I hope NO dems get elected back into office. Nancy Polsi can sell flowers on the corner.
When Trump is cleared of this you will be on to him for eating a salad for lunch with a little cheese on the side.
:Kit n Stik;
Said by someone who admits to getting news (seemingly exclusively) from Fox. Yet others who peruse a variety of news outlets and tend to vet those sources are said not to know what is going on?
We all tend to build bubbles that reinforce our world views, but studies have shown that those on the far right are more insulated in those bubbles, while those on the left tend to try to see beyond them.
If the president is so clean, then he should share his tax returns and welcome an independent investigation into the Russian connection. He shouldn't need to hide behind complaints about Hillary. A thorough investigation would unearth connections concerning her, if there are any, too.
I want to get to the truth. Plain and simple.
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OMG Trump had two scoops of ice cream! That is worth impeachment!! What the HELL is wrong with you people??
What do you think about the foreign connection? Do you find it appropriate that members of his cabinet were illegally paid by foreign powers well advising him?
(I think its fairly well established that Michael Flynn was paid to represent Turkey's interests during the campaign, did not register as a foreign agent and later became an cabinet official...)
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The administration leaks like a sieve, unless the Russians provided a recording to the nyt.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/19/us/politics/trump-russia-comey.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0&referer=
Trump Told Russians That Firing ‘Nut Job’ Comey Eased Pressure From Investigation
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If Flynn was not a retired general officer O-9 then all he would be required is to register as a foreign agent. But there is a federal criminal statute requiring O-7's and above to get permission from the DOD before taking any money. Do you really want the retired head of the Defence Intelligence Agency working for a openly hostile foreign power.
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All kinds of new breaking news on this today. Leaks of Trumps conversations with the Russians where he belittled Comey and said firing him would take a lot of pressure off of him. Also reports that a person within the white house who is very close to Trump is now a person of interest in the investigation. I don't see how Trump gets out of this without resigning or being impeached. Sooner or later the GOP will have to act on this madness. I hope they can tie Pence into this mess too. Spicer did not even deny the conversation with the Russians. He just complained about the leak that made it known.
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I don't have cable so I'm forced to watch the Fake drive by media. So as usual Willow -- You are guessing!
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I usually stay away from this board, but the reference to Seth Rich is disturbing for two reasons: first, it has nothing to do with the current Trump controversy, and second, the story is simply not true. Seth Rich's family is outraged by the comments and crazy conspiracy theories spread by this PI. NBC News reports::
"The family of slain Democratic staffer Seth Rich is threatening legal action against a private investigator after his 'outrageous behavior' has given fuel to right-wing conspiracy theories about the unsolved murder of their son.
An attorney representing the family of Rich, who was 27 when he was killed last July, sent a cease and desist letter Friday to Rod Wheeler, a Fox News contributor and former Washington, D.C., homicide detective who was employed by the family and earlier this week told a Fox affiliate that he believed police were covering up details about the crime.
'Your statements and actions have caused, and continue to cause, the Family severe mental anguish and emotional distress. Your behavior appears to have been deliberate, intentional, outrageous, and in patent disregard of the Agreement and the obvious damage and suffering it would cause the Family,' wrote Joseph Ingrisano of the law firm Katuk Rock, according to a copy of the letter shared exclusively with NBC News."
They simply do not buy into his conclusions and they are being hurt by his grandstanding.
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If they can tie Pence and wrap up the whole Dumb and Dumber adjministration, i hope it occurs in 2019 and the democrats take back the house in 2018. Then the nightmare solution does not happen Paul Ryan as President. If the Demi's take the house in 2018 then in 2019 a Democrat would replace Ttump.
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They simply do not buy into his conclusions and they are being hurt by his grandstanding.
None the less, the coincidence is amazing.
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Sorry Michael, but........ in re your last post, Dream on Baby!!!!!
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I'm glad Trump is overseas for 9 days. It will give me time to recover from the whiplash of all the recent leaks. Notice that most GOP Congress critters are very quiet. Not even coming out publicly to defend him. At least none that I have seen. Could it be nearing the tipping point? Who knows? It may be getting to the point where standing with him has become a re election liability.
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Right now the republicans are on track to loose 30 to 40 house seats. Two major factors are the absolute nightmare the Trump Administration has become, and the courts approving of states taking reapportionment out of the state legislature and giving it to non political committees to redraw district boundaries. No more congressional district carved into funny shapes to insure republican elections.
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I don't have cable so I'm forced to watch the Fake drive by media. So as usual Willow -- You are guessing!
Funny. I don't have cable either. I also do not watch ANY network news. But I do have a computer and the Internet. I make it a habit to peruse a variety of news outlets that lean both left and right so I can keep my finger on the pulse. I also take time to consider the reliability of the sources.
You said yourself, that you consume Fox News. I wasn't guessing about that.
Fox News is so unreliable that it is not even considered news in many other countries.
Aleta
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The truth will come out and we need to accept it.
The reason Seth Rich is relevant is because the Deems are blaming Russia for the lost election when it may be Rich who leaked DNC information to WikiLeaks
Then they will find Trump had nothing to do with Russia.
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Then they will find Trump had nothing to do with Russia.
And will you change your opinion of fRump when the truth says that he had quite a bit to do with Russia (not to mention obstruction of justice, money laundering, and giving away sensitive classified intel)? OR can he absolutely do no wrong?
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I will if you will finally accept it and the election...
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Rember Russian phones in the US are generally tapped on a FISA warrent. If Trump campaign is innocent I would expect the investigation to be wrapping up. However Flynn is clearly a criminal it's the reason he is o eager to get immunity. The key to this is what does Flynn know. Maybe nothing and the Generals next command will be in the USmilitary prison in Leavenworth. Claiming any other than Flynn is innocent or guilty at this point is meaning less. It took over three years to nail Nixon and it may take them equally as long to prove quilt or innocence of every one but Flynn. To quote the general. Lock him up. Lock him up. Lock Flynn up.
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Trump, like most politicians plays the game to win, period. It is not about "how you play the game that counts" but "whether you win or lose".
I'd love to hear trump say "I accepted Russian help because I was playing to win, and that I did".'
I also love to hear Pocohontas say "There are over 100 qualified applicants for every ivy league tenure position. Sure, I played the minority card to boost my chances. It worked - I got teneure didn't I?'.
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It turns out Elizabeth warren never applied for a reoccurring waver of any type she merely claimed Indian heratage socially, the Trump big lie against opponents is a disgrace. It's another example of Trump following in the foot steps of other practitioners of the big lie, Stalin, Hitler, and Putin. Remember Hitler ran for chancellor of Germany pledging to make Germany Great again, Putin ran on make Russia great again. So if Trump uses tactics from his friend who hates the US what does that make Trump, Comrade. If any connection to Russian hackers is established then Comrade Trump is guilty of Conspiracy to commit a felony.
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It turns out Elizabeth warren never applied for a reoccurring waver of any type she merely claimed Indian heratage socially,
An unchallenged listing as a member of a disadvantaged minority can be a big "plus" in hiring in academia, government and the private sector. If you really think she was listing herself in the faculty directory as "part american indian" so she could get invited to pow-wow's, I've got a bridge to sell you. It does not take a "recurring waver" (whatever that is) to play the race card to advantage.
It was legal and tactically advantageous for her to use this to help climb the tenure ladder. It is dishonest not to own up to why she did it.
Google the Indian guy who shaved his head, used his middle name, and joined a black student group for his resume - and proceeded to get into a US med school with a GPA just over 3.0.
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There is no advantage without a EEOC slot being filled a University gets no help with its EEOC numbers unless the candidate officially claims the disadvantage. You may not like her politics but Warren has a academic reputation for brilliance. Being smart has helped her more than being Indian. Attacking on the big lie is clearly the only talent Trump processes. If you don't agree with the Idiot he makes up fake facts and attacks,
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The question I put forth is not "did the university get credit" but "was the American Indian heritage claim an attempt to gain a tactical advantage in a highly competitive field". I suggest that circumstantial evidence strongly suggests such is the case.
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I spent many years dealing with EEOC problems in a major corporation. First as a Union Steward in a programming group then as a manager in programming. If you were not declared in a protected class there was no advantage for the company to promote you since you didn't count for the numbers that the company was rated on.some vague unclaimed statement of Indian heratige would get you absolutely nothing. Some of my career was spent as a RV at Bell Labs and there your academic credentials and what you have published did more for your career than any EEOC claim of disadvantage. Clearly this is the use of a personal attack against a political foe who is smarter than trump and beat him bloody in a twitter war. Let's see Trump has been accused of being a women abuser, a crooked university owner, a liar about just about anything he has ever said, a megalomaniac, and other vile truths about him to many to mention.
In return he calls Warren Pocahontas. Face it you are supporting a vile, ethically challenged , compulsive liar whose biggest accomplishment was the narrow passage in the house of a bio designed to gut the very protections on health coverage he swore up and down during the campaign he would protect.
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You avoid the essential question I posed. Was claiming of Indian heritage an attempt to gain an advantage in the hiring/tenure wars? The answer to that question is "yes" or "no", not "Trump is evil".
So, do you really believe she "wanted to meet other people sharing her Indian heritage" or do you think it was an attempt to curry favor? (and remember, the issue is not if the corporation would get EEOC credit, but if the applicant felt it would help her career).
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You avoid the essential question I posed. Was claiming of Indian heritage an attempt to gain an advantage in the hiring/tenure wars? The answer to that question is "yes" or "no", not "Trump is evil".
So, do you really believe she "wanted to meet other people sharing her Indian heritage" or do you think it was an attempt to curry favor? (and remember, the issue is not if the corporation would get EEOC credit, but if the applicant felt it would help her career).
You are asking that we divine motive; you're asking us to accept your understanding of human actions as being motivated (primarily motivated) by ambition. Maybe, maybe not. The point in all this is that you do not have to assume motives to be concerned about Trump's actions. I think it is farcical to insist that Warren and Trump are both equally motivated by ambition. It is beyond reason to suggest that their actions are comparable.
If Trump stepped up and says I "accepted Russian help because I was playing to win, and that I did" that would be a disgrace to the entire country. It would be profoundly damaging. It would disqualify his administration and trigger a constitutional crisis.
If Warren stepped up and says "There are over 100 qualified applicants for every ivy league tenure position. Sure, I played the minority card to boost my chances. It worked - I got teneure [sic] didn't I?" she would hurt her electoral prospects, perhaps.
Not alike.
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Oh, and I get hammered for NOT staying on topic. You guys are a bunch of Hypocrites.
:Kit n Stik;
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For the record, Fox News just posted a retraction of the Seth Rich story on its website.
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:rofl; I'm listening to Sean Hannity right now. He is SURE it does. Go look at Kim.com and scroll down to read what it says. "Panda" remember that name. It is about to come out.
Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia aka No evidence....
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Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia aka No evidence....
Because its Hillary bashing you trust Kim.com over the heads of all our branches of intelligence services?
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God the only one who tells more lies then Fox News is trump. Remember the Hilary connection to a D.C. Pizza parlor that was a secret child sex operation. Some moron who,listened to Fox about this story brought a m-16 to the pizza joint and shot it up to free the children. Absolutely bogus story it was dumb luck no one was killed. Seth Rich is just the latest attempt to justify stopping a investigation tha Trump wants stopped. He even wants the traitor Flynn to be left alone. Problem seems to be what does Flynn know that Donald is so scared of. Watch he is going to pardon Flynn to keep him out of jail. Worry about this no the Trumpets have their heads so far up their proverbial butts they are blind to Trump and his bizarre behavior.
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Remember the Hilary connection to a D.C. Pizza parlor that was a secret child sex operation.
The sad thing to me is a high school classmate who is in strongly anti GMO/anti vaccination camp actually believed that crap as well.... Its not only the right that gets polluted with those fantasies.
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Remember when the left said Comey wanted more money for the investigation? That was a lie
Russia, Russia, Russia = No Evidence.
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Did you hear the testimony of the former CIA director today? There is definitely a Russia problem and Congress, FBI and the Special Prosecutor will get to the bottom of it. By the way, Trump lawyered up today with a personal attorney. I bet a bunch of his staff are seeking legal advice as well. They have kept so much information under wrap because of classification but just the information that has leaked to this point is quite damning. What seems to be clear is Trump has tried to stop this investigation multiple times. Why is he so afraid of it if it seeks the truth. Poor Flynn is getting nailed right and left with requests for documents. He pleaded the 5th so now they are making requests of his corporation to provide documents. Hope he saved some of that Russian money. He will need it for legal fees. drip drip drip
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Flynn, Flynn, Flynn = lots of evidence. He took money, that was illegal for him to take without prior approval. Several times when given the opportunity to come clean he lied. Tonight the Senate investigation committee Issued Supena to the two corporations Flynn used to collect his 30 pieces of silver. Corporations have no right to plead the 5th. Flynn is now being backed into a corner. Way back when the Presidunce complained that his people were wire tapped, clearly they were picked up on a FISA wiretapand and trump was complaining cause they don't want the content released.
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If Trump stepped up and says I "accepted Russian help because I was playing to win, and that I did" that would be a disgrace to the entire country. It would be profoundly damaging. It would disqualify his administration and trigger a constitutional crisis.
What article in the constitution makes accepting foreign help in an election a "constitutional crisis"?
What do you mean by "disqualify his administration"? Would he lose any of his constitutional powers? Lose the ability to issue executive orders? Have the football taken away? What does "disqualification" mean other than powerless little people (i.e., us) declaring they "do not recognize his presidency"?
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The Trumpets are living in what German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer referee to as Wolkenkuckucksheim translated as Cloud cuckoo land which refers to a state of absurdly over-optimistic fantasy or an unrealistically idealistic state where everything is perfect. Someone who is said to "live in cloud cuckoo land" is a person who thinks that things that are completely impossible might happen, rather than understanding how things really are.[1] It also hints that the person referred to is naive, unaware of realities or deranged in holding such an optimistic belief. Every thing is good, the emperor is finely dressed,it's a good thing to gut Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps to fund the biggest give away to the rich in history. Traitorous activities (Michael Flynn) are ok, links to the Russian intelligence services are a good thing. As Flynn himself said if they are looking for immunity they are obviouly guilty. Leaving me to say lock him up, lock him up, lock up the traitor Flynn.
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absurdly over-optimistic fantasy
You mean like believing that the "affordable care act" will reduce medical costs, and not increase insurance rates for the un-subsidized?
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You mean passing legislation that a majority of Americans preferr to the Republican Death committee and Trumps move to gut Medicare, Medicaid, and Food stamps. Since most dialysis patient rely on Medicare to Medicaid the is a attempt by the Republicans to kill off a large majority of dialysis patients. But living in cloud cuckoo land people deny the reality of the effects this attempt to save money by killing off the people who need these services. If you think that's the same as so called Obama care you are a resident of Cloud cuckoo land.
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My point is BOTH SIDES make absurd assumptions like "growth will make up for any tax loss" or "the economy will grow at 3% a year".
It will be interesting to see if clinics deny treatment to patients who cannot get Medicaid for either pre-medicare dialysis, or the 20% balance once on Medicare.
There is already a plot to kill off dialysis patients - it's called "3 day a week in-center".
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If you think 3 days a week in center are bad wait until the Prisidunce and the republican controlled congress makes it 0 days a week dialysis. This is a mockery of every thing we stand for. Trump runs on don't worry we won't change anything. Then becomes worry cause I need the money to give my friends a massive tax cut.
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You need to Thank Republicans for even having dialysis at all.
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You need to Thank Republicans for even having dialysis at all.
Why not try to stay in the present. It's no longer the Nixon admin (even tho there are some resemblances). Talking about Trump here.
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Back in that day liberal and moderate Republicans existed instead of the 10 percent that survive today. The current morons are salivating at the thought of gutting all the programs now on the chopping block. Then using the money to cut Trumps taxes along with the mega rich. Leaving the regular people no where to go but Canada.
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One other note in 1972 both houses of Congress were controlled by Democrats not Rpublicans.
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Okay, I'll jump up 38 years... Why was it okay for Obummer to mess with the Israeli election. He gave $350K of our tax payer money to the campaign against Netanyahu. It didn't work, so maybe we got the money back? LOL
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And Israel never takes sides in American elections.
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Taking sides is different than handing them 350K of your tax dollars.
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Brennan's testimony as captured by C-Span is rather enlightening. But then, I guess those who support tRump would consider it all lies, even though he is speaking under oath!
https://www.c-span.org/video/?428636-1/former-cia-director-saw-intelligence-information-warrant-investigation (https://www.c-span.org/video/?428636-1/former-cia-director-saw-intelligence-information-warrant-investigation)
And Michael Murphy, you fell right into an argument trap by responding to the claim that the Obama administration gave money to oust Netanyahu. You conceded the point by not challenging it. :bow;
At the time, the Washington TIMES, a decidedly right-leaning source posted:
"Some $350,000 was sent to OneVoice, ostensibly to support the group’s efforts to back Israeli-Palestinian peace settlement negotiations."
The article ends by saying that OneVoice did not turn political until AFTER it had received the funds. That did not stop the author from giving a different overall impression.
Notice the use of the pejorative "ostensibly." And the article made the conclusion that the purpose for giving the funds was not as purported, but really to oust Netanyahu. It gives no supporting evidence for that claim. Those leaning right would understandably be taken in by this clever bit of propaganda.
You see, it isn't really that hard to track down information and tease it out to see what stands up and what is a house of cards. It DOES take a little time and a willingness to bring strongly held beliefs into question.
Rerun, you should demand evidence. Don't just accept things that make you feel good or echo in your bubble. If you do, it is all too easy to be duped by those who want to control how you think.
Living an evidence-based life is quite liberating, because you can truly free yourself from the influence of those who just want to use you.
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I just had a big argument with my husband 's part B Medicare insurance yesterday . We got a letter yesterday that his anti rejection drugs are not covered. Never mind that they have paid for them since his transplant 19 months ago. I had to get the book out and read the page where it says " immunosuppressive drugs are covered by Medicare at 80% " The guy got a little defense, he kept saying it had to go to part D , finally said he would have a senior worker call me ! I really had to bite my tongue , wanting to say oh has Trump changed that rule too already ? Still waiting for the senior guy to call . Who trains these people ? That's been a rule for awhile now, this guy never heard of it till I read the page out of the book to him .
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Wow I'm speechless. Lots and lots of strength my sweet people over the water.
:grouphug;
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Strange news the Presidunce and his moron dwarf brigade made a small error in his budget request they used a trillion dollars twice in the budget for different programs. They can't even do math
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But they do math better than the keeper 'of the funds' for HUD
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Were talking about a trillion dollar mistake.
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It's 2 trillion
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/447925/trumps-2-trillion-hole
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Absolutely right my mistake but to modify a Everett Dirkson line a trillion hirer a trillion there and soon you are talking about real money.
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Willow - First of all I do not consider the Washington Post Conservative anymore. There is NO argument that tax payer money was use to sway voters in Israel. Now, maybe OneVoice used it to train activists. The point is Obama used Tax payer dollars that could have been used to feed our hungry poor people as the left is so concerned about to influence an election.
Thank you deary for trying to enlighten my horizon, but maybe you better practice what you preach.
Oh, and by the way England is pissed at OUR media for leaking the bomb types used in Manchester. AND the Prime Minister is blaming President Trump.... OMG like he has control of the Media? I'm glad England called out the Media in the United States. They have no common sense... they would print their Mother's checking account information if there was a "story".
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You mean the hungry poor people the Presidunce's budget proposal is taking 150 billion from and you think 350,000 is going to fill in the food needs with a 150,000,000,000 hole in food aid for the poor.
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Rerun said:
Thank you deary for trying to enlighten my horizon, but maybe you better practice what you preach.
:rofl; :rofl; :rofl;
Says the person who admits to using Fox "News" as the primary news source. When you peruse 8-10 national and international news outlets across a range of perspectives, you can talk to me about broadening horizons. I will freely admit that MOST (but not all) of my news leans left. On the other hand, I also like to keep my finger on the pulse of what conservatives are reading. I do not get any news from TV, though. I find it is way too slanted and tends to utilize emotionally laden catch-phrases to grab the listener and push a particular agenda. I prefer a slower pace for my information so I can digest and analyze at my leisure.
While you may not consider the Washington Times right-leaning, Rerun, analysts do. On the other hand, the Washington Post is definitely left leaning.
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WTW said " I prefer a slower pace for my information so I can digest and analyze at my leisure. "
:rofl;
I WILL TRY AND TYPE S L O W ER!!
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Yes but not accurately.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/23/business/media/fox-news-seth-rich.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0 (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/23/business/media/fox-news-seth-rich.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0)
Rerun, you were using this false information as part of your argument?
Par for the course, Fox "News" doesn't concern itself with verifying sources up front. Now that folks accept this false reporting, they can post a retraction. The damage is done. The gullible were taken in. And it no longer matters whether they were reporting falsehoods and concoctions. That is not what people will remember.
This kind of tactic has been used over and over with this particular "news" outlet. The bigger the lie, the more damage it can do, and the more likely the sheep will be to accept it.
Fox is NOT about telling the truth and dispensing information. It is all about sensationalizing and ratings.
:Kit n Stik;
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That's your opinion I guess.
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After Comey's Testimony... Each side has differences of what was said.
CBS: Trump is a liar and approached obstruction of justice.
FOX: Trump vindicated.
I listened to the whole thing. This is what I understood. Again, you hear what you want to hear.
Comey admitted on National TV in front of God and everyone, that he leaked classified information to the press through a good friend. WTF
Comey admitted that Loretta Lynch obstructed justice by asking him to label what Hillary did as a "matter" not an investigation.
I like Comey. I think he is a very intelligent but quiet man. That is why he didn't say anything to Donald. Trump wants what he wants and is going to go right to the person. Trump thought Flynn had suffered enough by getting fired. Flynn has put in 35 years as a predominant Public Servant. Anyway....
Trump had nothing to do with Russia and the election. I guess Russia has tried to break into our election process for years and will try again. It did not change the results. Trump Won.
:waving;
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:rofl; :rofl; :rofl; :rofl;
Now who has colluded who!
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After Comey's Testimony... Each side has differences of what was said.
The CNN/Fox slant difference is consistent and predictable. Which is slanted and which is objective depends on which side you are on.
Remember the two fugitives in GA who a homeowner caught and held at gunpoint with an AR15? Before I even visited the news sites, I knew CNN would bury that little tidbit and Foxnews would make it the headline of the article. Sure enough, I was right. Both articles were consistent in the facts, but the presentation of each was slanted to serve the orgs public policy agenda.
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Regardless of how Manafort financial crimes and tax evasion thing goes down...
Doesn't it seem bad that Trump's campaign manager Manafort was representing Russian influenced campaigns in the Ukraine and earned many millions doing that? That sure seems like a connection to Russia...
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One question I have relates to these payments
Manafort arranged to wire $12 million from offshore accounts to pay for personal expenses – including $5 million to a home renovation contractor in the Hamptons, more than $1.3 million to a home entertainment and lighting vendor based in Florida, $934,000 to an antique rug dealer in Alexandria, and $849,000 to a men’s clothier in New York.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/manafort-and-former-business-partner-asked-to-surrender-in-connection-with-special-counsel-probe/2017/10/30/6fe051f0-bd67-11e7-959c-fe2b598d8c00_story.html
Did he actually pay $850K for clothes or was that part of some sort of scheme to convert foreign cash to US dollars via kickbacks from the clothier?
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I don't know if this is old or new information but this actually provides a link between the campaign team and Russia
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/us/politics/george-papadopoulos-russia.html
A professor with close ties to the Russian government told an adviser to Donald Trump’s presidential campaign in April 2016 that Moscow had “dirt” on Hillary Clinton in the form of “thousands of emails,” according to court documents unsealed Monday.
The adviser, George Papadopoulos, has pleaded guilty to lying to the F.B.I. about that conversation. The plea represents the most explicit evidence connecting the Trump campaign to the Russian government’s meddling in last year’s election.
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The adviser, George Papadopoulos, has pleaded guilty to lying to the F.B.I. about that conversation. The plea represents the most explicit evidence connecting the Trump campaign to the Russian government’s meddling in last year’s election.[/i]
Error code 1D-10T. You would think someone in his position would understand the benefit of not being heard (similar in concept to the benefit of not being seen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTQYEkIvN2M)
This video is worth a view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
Martha Stewart did not understand the value of not talking to the police or feds, and was convicted of lying. If she had remained silent, she would never had done time.
Billy Bulger (former MA senate president and former UMass chancellor) was questioned by the FBI regarding contact with his then-fugitive criminal brother Whitey. He said any interview with the FBI was a "perjury trap"; exercised his right to remain silent; and remained unindicted.
Manafort arranged to wire $12 million from offshore accounts to pay for personal expenses – including $5 million to a home renovation contractor in the Hamptons, more than $1.3 million to a home entertainment and lighting vendor based in Florida, $934,000 to an antique rug dealer in Alexandria, and $849,000 to a men’s clothier in New York.
I wonder if he paid taxes on that money. Update: Just read the indictment. Covered in count #4.
Doesn't it seem bad that Trump's campaign manager Manafort was representing Russian influenced campaigns in the Ukraine and earned many millions doing that? That sure seems like a connection to Russia...
Yup. Let's hope the Uranium One deal gets equal scrutiny.
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Manafort arranged to wire $12 million from offshore accounts to pay for personal expenses – including $5 million to a home renovation contractor in the Hamptons, more than $1.3 million to a home entertainment and lighting vendor based in Florida, $934,000 to an antique rug dealer in Alexandria, and $849,000 to a men’s clothier in New York.
I wonder if he paid taxes on that money.
He did not pay taxes on it that is one of the biggest points the point of the indictment and probably one of the easiest to prove.
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News of Papadopolous' arrest last July has knocked the Trump off stride. Trump tweets of NO COLLUSION have given way to Clinton Uranium Dossier something something Lock Her Up.
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Remember Manafort is 68 and attended meetings with the Russians. If he does not want to die in prison he better tell Mueller what happened. My guess is Trump will pardon Manafort to keep him quiet. Only problem is the Attorney General of New York has joined with Mueller in his investigation. Trump can’t pardon for state crimes, New York can put Manafort in prison.
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News of Papadopolous' arrest last July has knocked the Trump off stride. Trump tweets of NO COLLUSION have given way to Clinton Uranium Dossier something something Lock Her Up.
Sleazes on BOTH sides, though most seem to think it's only the other side.
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Simon Dog, don't allow yourself to be distracted by this Uranium business. You're falling for Trump's tactics. His campaign manager has been indicted for CONSPIRACY AGAINST THE UNITED STATES. Hillary Clinton has been indicted for NOTHING. She is not the President of the United States. The campaign manager for Hillary Clinton is NOT being indicted for CONSPIRACY AGAINST THE UNITED STATES. No, that's PAUL MANAFORT, CAMPAIGN MANAGER FOR DONALD TRUMP, INDICTED FOR CONSPIRACY AGAINST THE UNITED STATES.
This is more that "sleaze", and the constant argument of "well, there's sleaze on both sides" won't cut it in Federal Court.
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The committee that approved the sale is headed by the treasury secretary. While the Secretary of State has a seat on the committee Clinton sent a lower level to sit in on the discussion and did not participate. Trump is going to keep flogging the crooked Hilary horse to cover up the absolute violations of his campaign in dealing with a hostile foreign power. Hopefully Manafort will be the start of these goons being sent to Federal or state prisons. Trump campaigned on draining the swamp, instead of a swamp he’s turning the government into a guagmire.
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Further to Michael Murphy's point, and further to the attempt to distract us from the indictment of Paul Manafort who was hired BECAUSE OF HIS TIES TO RUSSIA, here's all you need to know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFalijeStUc
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While the Secretary of State has a seat on the committee Clinton sent a lower level to sit in on the discussion and did not participate.
Agencies have a tendency to issue rulings and decisions that they think will curry favor with the boss. It's like a Mayor accepting a huge campaign donation from a developer, and his same party city planner subsequently approving that new shopping center to replace a farm. Everyone gets to say "no connection", "decision was made only with the good of the community in mind", etc. but there is no escaping the apparent conflict of interest.
As yourself this .... did the massive donations to the Clinton foundation from various entities needing favorable decisions from the US govt continue after Hillary lost the election or did they taper off? That will tell you if they were "unrelated" or an attempt to garner favor.
Simon Dog, don't allow yourself to be distracted by this Uranium business.
This is exactly what I was referring to. Many on each side say "Don't be distracted by the allegations about my side, yours is the evil one".
Here is a complete list of what Donald Trump has been indicted for. It is also the list of what Clinton has been charged with:
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If the committee was headed by treasury secretary and includes 11 other secretaries is going to be influenced by a state department under secretary you could have a point. The real power belonged to the treasury department. This is just more mud slinging by the presidunce in a attempt to take the focus of the word collusion. Trump has a history of character Assassination. Strange since he has no Character.
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What indictments have been brought against Hillary Clinton?
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NONE!!!
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What indictments have been brought against Hillary Clinton?
The same number than have been brought against Donald Trump.
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What are they, and which special prosecutor brought them against her?
To be fair, though, I can't recall where Trump himself has been indicted. I know there have been charges and indictments against several Trump entities, like Trump University. Of course, that may now change.
How can Paul Manafort have three passports? Why would Trump risk having a guy like this run his campaign? I thought he was supposed to drain the swamp. Why would any one vote for a candidate whose campaign was run by a guy who spent over a million dollars on clothes alone? What does that say to the Trump voters in the rust belt?
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How can Paul Manafort have three passports?
Many countries require you send them your passport to have a visa added. I was without my passport for a couple of weeks while the Indian consulate had it to add such a sticker.
The US Passport agency will issue an additional passport to persons who travel frequently and are caught in the "my passport is out having a visa added" trap or, for example, someone with Israel stamps who has business in Saudi Arabia and will be denied entry with such a stamp. These additional passports are only good for 2 years rather than 10. There are even situations with very frequent travelers who have been issued more than one second passport.
https://fr.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/passports/apply-for-second-regular-passport/
It is either intentional bias, or incompetence, for the media to mention "three passports" without also mentioning that this is legal.
Why would any one vote for a candidate whose campaign was run by a guy who spent over a million dollars on clothes alone?
That is really not that different from a candidate who demanded travel by private jet to speaking engagements when not a candidate. Both are elitists who live better than the little people.
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a guy who spent over a million dollars on clothes alone?
I finally read some analysis of this last night, maybe in the Washington Post. That spending broke down to "only" $150k/year and people interviewed said it was completely possible to spend that much as a one percenter. Then they talked about rugs and the consensus was a normal client would not spend that much on rugs unless they were an investment vehicle. Also some of the Hamptons spending seemed very high for the type of service like landscaping or a $400k pool house. The $120k for media and home electronics was inline with what could be spent. So basically some of the spending was within expected ranges for someone living an elite lifestyle, others was questionable.
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I don't recall the media ever saying that having three passports was illegal, but it is certainly one of the reasons that Manafort is considered to be an extreme flight risk, which is exactly what the media explained.
Obviously it is possible for a one-percenter to spend that much money on clothing and on all of the other bells and whistles, but when the money to acquire comes from activities that call for your indictment for CONSPIRACY AGAINST THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, I'm not sure that's what Trump voters define as "draining the swamp".
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I don't recall the media ever saying that having three passports was illegal, but it is certainly one of the reasons that Manafort is considered to be an extreme flight risk, which is exactly what the media explained.
If the passports are officially disclosed and known to the government, then they will all be surrendered as part of the standard pre-trial bail/release conditions. They do not increase flight risk unless they are not surrendered. The mention of "three passports" without mentioning this is a legitimate practice for such a frequent traveler falls into the category of unflattering innuendo.
What does make him a flight risk is a level of assets that would allow him to live a comfortable life in a non-extradition country without ever having to worry about supporting himself, paying for medical, etc. This would be an example of the Polansky effect.
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Extra passports are issued for 1 to 4 years based on the digression of the issuing agency. The other reason is that some countries will deny entry if you have a entry for a country that don’t approve of, the best example is a Israeli visa stamp will keep you out of most middle eastern states.
Fixed bizarre spelling mistake.
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Extra passports are issued for 1 to 4 years based on the digression of the issuing agency.
I think it's two years unless the agency digresses from policy :)
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What I understand is it issues for one year and issues longer up to a maximum of 4 years on a case by case basis.
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What I understand is it issues for one year and issues longer up to a maximum of 4 years on a case by case basis.
The only official site I have been able to find referencing the issue is the US Embassy in France: https://fr.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/passports/apply-for-second-regular-passport/
Second passports are issued at the discretion of the State Department and not for the convenience of the traveler. The validity of a second passport is limited to two years and cannot be extended.
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I read constantly about travel and didn't know about multiple passports. Other than normal and diplomatic or dual citizenship.
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Back in the day, I was traveling a lot overseas. Mostly India, Mexico, and Japan. The Indian embassy took my passport to issue a visa, mean while I had to make a trip to Japan, I had a second passport issued good for one year.
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Good to see that the Justice Department is doing their job. The whole Russian influence is a problem regardless of if they prove the Trump connection or instead find that Trump's unskilled team made poor choices when agreeing to meet with all the Russians.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/russian-troll-farm-13-suspects-indicted-for-interference-in-us-election/2018/02/16/2504de5e-1342-11e8-9570-29c9830535e5_story.html
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Good week for Mueller, bad week for trump. The trump inauguration committee final produced the spend for inauguration.
Announced they paid Mrs. Trumps best friend 26,000,000 plus dollars with out explanation what she did to earn it. Since dontations are tax deductible their are rules about spending and reporting. A fertile ground for Mueller.
Gates is in active negotiations about plea deal, plus if he rolls he was vice chairman of the inauguration committee. In addition he would bolster case against Manafort. Since he Worked for him. That is another possible guilty plea bring up the total to flout.
This is important since one person guilty can not testify about a crime unless there is additional witnesses.
Since trump denies Russian involvement interesting that 3 organizations and 13 Russian nationals indicted for working to fix 2016 election.
Finally it turns out the Republican Congress changed the gun laws allowing 75,000 people with mental health problems to buy guns, and trump signed it. So republicans refuse to block people on the terrorist watch list from buying guns, now they are allowing crazy people buy guns. They have never released photos of the Presidunce sign that bill, the only bill signing he has done without released photos.
And when they accuse the democrats of making a political issue of the Florida shooting, they were the ones that released the inauguration committee audit same day as the shooting to hide it in the bigger story.
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Finally it turns out the Republican Congress changed the gun laws allowing 75,000 people with mental health problems to buy guns, and trump signed it.
It would help if you had a deeper understanding than that presented by agenda driven sound bite journalism.
First off, it was not a "law chance" but a "policy change".
Social Security allows the recipient of benefits to appoint a representative payee who has authority to deal with the SS their behalf. This is sometimes done for persons incapable of managing their finances, and at other times for convenience (for example, a mobility limited elderly person may prefer to have his/her spawn deal with SS for him/her). For all practical purposes, "representative payee" is the SS equivalent of "durable power of attorney" (with the later not accepted by SS).
What the Trump administration did was reverse the policy that appointing a "representative payee" was tantamount to a finding of mental incompetence. Many people, particularly the elderly (many of which are still of sound mind) appoint such a representative, often an adult child, so they don't have to deal with the complications and hassles of navigating the SS system.
The Trump administration reversed the assumption that appointing a financial representative was proof of mental incompetence. This is quite different than "allowing people with mental health problems to buy guns".
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It would help if you had a deeper understanding than that presented by agenda driven sound bite journalism.
^^^^^^^^ What he said! ^^^^^^^^ :thumbup; :thumbup;
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]
It would help if you had a deeper understanding than that presented by agenda driven sound bite journalism.
First off, it was not a "law chance" but a "policy change".
Social Security allows the recipient of benefits to appoint a representative payee who has authority to deal with the SS their behalf. This is sometimes done for persons incapable of managing their finances, and at other times for convenience (for example, a mobility limited elderly person may prefer to have his/her spawn deal with SS for him/her). For all practical purposes, "representative payee" is the SS equivalent of "durable power of attorney" (with the later not accepted by SS).
What the Trump administration did was reverse the policy that appointing a "representative payee" was tantamount to a finding of mental incompetence. Many people, particularly the elderly (many of which are still of sound mind) appoint such a representative, often an adult child, so they don't have to deal with the complications and hassles of navigating the SS system.
The Trump administration reversed the assumption that appointing a financial representative was proof of mental incompetence. This is quite different than "allowing people with mental health problems to buy guns".
Nope. Irrelevant word salad. Seventeen people are still dead in yet another mass shooting. All so that a minority of the population can still have their hobby. It would help if you'd have a deeper understanding of THAT instead of couching those deaths in words like "agenda driven sound bite journalism."
Did you know that the White House won't authorize the release of the official photo taken of the signing of that particular piece of legislation? We get photos of all of the other bumph that man signs, but not of this. Journalists have been requesting the release of said photo, but no. Why not, do you think?
Also, this; http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/florida-voting-on-pro-gun-bills-day-after-parkland-shooting-10090033
Tell me again...why would anyone want an AR-15? Can you give us all a "deeper understanding" of that?
edited to add: Oops, sorry. Michael Murphy already pointed out that no photo is available of Trump signing that bill. Apologies.
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Back to the Russian story...
Anyone who thinks that the Russians didn't influence the outcome of the election is being willfully ignorant. Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, but some of the votes she didn't win were in the "wrong places". The Russians knew that all they had to do was change the results in just a few districts in just a few states. We already know they hacked into the voting system. This Presidency will be forever asterisked. I still think that the Dems will win a lot of seats back in the midterms, and I still think that Trump will howl about that and will blame it on the Russians, and I still think that he may well be right. I don't understand why GOP Congresspeople don't seem to care.
Between the Russians and the NRA, American democracy is dead.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/16/mueller-indictment-russia-takeaways-353667?lo=ap_b1
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Nope. Irrelevant word salad. Seventeen people are still dead in yet another mass shooting. All so
I was commenting only on the assertion that Trump signed a law allowing 75K mentally ill people to buy guns. Whether that assertion is accurate, or not, has nothing do with the broader gun control issue.
The question I was addressing was the definition of mental illness. Do you feel that appointing a financial representative to manage one's SS benefits is the equivalent of being adjudicated mentally ill?
Also, I was wrong when I said "rule change"- it was actually a bill to force a change in the rule. Trump should have allowed cameras in for the signing.
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my kidneys the most.
For me, it's my dog.
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All I know is it allows my step daughter who is bipolar 2 and schizophrenic to buy a gun since she is covered by the change.and I can’t think of anything scarier then her with a gun.
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All I know is it allows my step daughter who is bipolar 2 and schizophrenic to buy a gun since she is covered by the change.and I can’t think of anything scarier then her with a gun.
Some people on the SS "representative payee list" have mental illness. That does not mean that being on the RP list is proof one has mental illness.
I hope she doesn't have to take Li2C03 for the bipolar or else she will eventually be joining us on IHD.
The trick with a mental condition blacklist is to have it cover true dangerousness without creating a situation where gun owners don't even dare seek help for things like depression because they are afraid of being listed.
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The trick with a mental condition blacklist is to have it cover true dangerousness without creating a situation where gun owners don't even dare seek help for things like depression because they are afraid of being listed.
Really?
Gun owners would rather hold on to their guns than be treated for depression?
Really?
And you're OK with that?
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nd you're OK with that?
I am not OK with that., which is why I think it is important too put some protections in place so that people are not punished for seeking help with small problems before they become big ones
Like it or not, a side effect of a broad "see a counselor, lose one of your rights" policy is that people will be reluctant to seek professional help. It is easy for those who do not think people should own guns in the first place to say "well then, just make an appointment with a shrink and give them up", but that is not going to be the effect.
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If you see something say something..... must not work. The FBI F'd it up twice.
The left and right should make a deal. We will ban Guns if you Ban Abortion.
It would save all our youths lives so they have a chance to grow up and be successful.
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I would take that deal, Rerun, provided that contraception is free for everyone along with any doctor appointments required for any pills and/or procedures, thus reducing the need for abortions.
Do you think gun owners would go for that deal? How about it, Simon Dog? Would that deal suit you?
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While I hate to write a pro gun reply. If you ban guns completely you would need to bring back predators to control the deer, bear, alagator, etc. populations. My dislike is two fold military grade weapons (assault guns, large magazines, bump-stocks) and cheap pistols.
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While I hate to write a pro gun reply. If you ban guns completely you would need to bring back predators to control the deer, bear, alagator, etc. populations. My dislike is two fold military grade weapons (assault guns, large magazines, bump-stocks) and cheap pistols.
Well, we could expand the park service and give it responsibility for "culling".
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I am not OK with that., which is why I think it is important too put some protections in place so that people are not punished for seeking help with small problems before they become big ones
Like it or not, a side effect of a broad "see a counselor, lose one of your rights" policy is that people will be reluctant to seek professional help. It is easy for those who do not think people should own guns in the first place to say "well then, just make an appointment with a shrink and give them up", but that is not going to be the effect.
I strongly suspect that red-blooded American males who love their guns would NEVER EVER "see a shrink" for depression until and unless it became a "big" problem, and then it would be too late. Such men would be mentally ill AND armed by then. Most men, gun owners or not, won't go to a family doctor, much less a psychiatrist or other mental health care professional.
What I am hearing in your posts is that people prize their guns over their mental health. This is very disturbing and is a part of this country's problem.
You still have not answered my question: why does anyone want to own the type of weapon used in murdering the kids in Florida? What do gun owners use it for? What is its purpose?
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Ok, I'll make it simple:
Private swimming pools kill more kids than school shootings.
Why then should people be allowed to have private swimming pools and enjoy an item that when used incorrectly is killing kids? Surely having everyone with a pool give up their backyard fun is a reasonable price to pay.
As to "what purpose does an AR15 serve" - same purpose as recreational parachuting, diving hotrodding, car restoration, model airplane flying, etc.
I strongly suspect that red-blooded American males who love their guns would NEVER EVER "see a shrink" for depression until and unless it became a "big" problem, and then it would be too late.
They would if their insurance covered it and they were not afraid of being punished. A friend eventually saw someone and is doing very well (it was a decade plus ago and he got over his mid life crisis/depression), but was somewhat reluctant because of the gun issue.
What I am hearing in your posts is that people prize their guns over their mental health. This is very disturbing and is a part of this country's problem.
The real problem is the stigmatization of mental health treatment and the complexities of how to pay for it.
Most of my friends outside of work are from the local gun club. It's a much more diverse group that I met through work, an includes cops, doctors, construction professionals, computer weenies, an acoustic expert and a retired bomb squad consultant. When I was sentenced to a couple of months back in center, and I needed a ride from the hospital at to/from my treatments, all it took was one email to the gun club mailing list and I had enough offer of rides to appointments to open up an Uber branch.
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Fine people want to play with assault weapons require they be kept locked in a armory at a shooting facility. Military members do not have continuous control of their weapons, they are stored in a armory. But what I don’t understand is the NRA support of bump stocks. However next summer I plan on going to Savanna and look for the missing hydrogen bomb that has been sitting in the ocean or swamp for 50 years. I will claim my second amendment rights to keep it as a weapon.
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Ok, I'll make it simple:
Private swimming pools kill more kids than school shootings.
Why then should people be allowed to have private swimming pools and enjoy an item that when used incorrectly is killing kids? Surely having everyone with a pool give up their backyard fun is a reasonable price to pay.
Swimming pools are not "incorrectly used" to kill kids.
As to "what purpose does an AR15 serve" - same purpose as recreational parachuting, diving hotrodding, car restoration, model airplane flying, etc.
What? What kind of "fun" does a person have with an AR-15"? Exactly how does having a weapon like this serve as "recreation"? Do you just look at it? Do you take it apart so that you can put it back together again? I'm none the wiser.
I strongly suspect that red-blooded American males who love their guns would NEVER EVER "see a shrink" for depression until and unless it became a "big" problem, and then it would be too late.
They would if their insurance covered it and they were not afraid of being punished. A friend eventually saw someone and is doing very well (it was a decade plus ago and he got over his mid life crisis/depression), but was somewhat reluctant because of the gun issue.
What I am hearing in your posts is that people prize their guns over their mental health. This is very disturbing and is a part of this country's problem.
The real problem is the stigmatization of mental health treatment and the complexities of how to pay for it.
Most of my friends outside of work are from the local gun club. It's a much more diverse group that I met through work, an includes cops, doctors, construction professionals, computer weenies, an acoustic expert and a retired bomb squad consultant. When I was sentenced to a couple of months back in center, and I needed a ride from the hospital at to/from my treatments, all it took was one email to the gun club mailing list and I had enough offer of rides to appointments to open up an Uber branch.
So, being deprived of one's own private arsenal because of mental illness is seen as "punishment"? See, again, this mindset seems to be part of the problem in this country. And I'm sure your gun club friends would be grateful if anyone in the group would willingly seek treatment if there was any chance at all that s/he'd use a gun to murder kids while in a disturbed state. And I'm also sure that your friends would give you loads of support whether you needed dialysis or had become mentally ill. Or, are you thinking that you would be stigmatized by them.
The Trump administration has promised to make sure that everyone will have access to affordable health care, and Congress (and the NRA) is always telling us that they will fix our mental health system, so, easy peasy lemon squeezy!
edited to add: I know the quotes are all screwed up, and my attempt to fix them made them worse. Sorry, but I'm going to just leave it as it is because the Olympics are coming on, and I know you all are smart enough to figure out the quotes.
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Swimming pools are not "incorrectly used" to kill kids.
Actually, they are. Any time a kid drowns and there are not sufficient adults with lifesaving training to deal with it immediately, is an incorrect use. Unattended, a pool can be as dangerous as a loaded gun. A good friend lost his best friend (4 leg variety) because he did not properly secure his pool. Funny thing though - he has a perfect record with his guns.
What kind of "fun" does a person have with an AR-15"? Exactly how does having a weapon like this serve as "recreation"?
If you have time, you can read the rulebook for one several sports that uses AR15s: https://uspsa.org/viewer/RifleShotgunMultigunRules.pdf
And, of course another: https://rulebooks.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-book.pdf
There are several more.
Do you take it apart so that you can put it back together again?
Actually yes, but generally for cleaning or changing configurations. The AR15 has more options and accessories than just about any other rifle, is one of the most versatile on the market, and accounts for something like 65% of new rifle sales. Because of the accessories and options, it's been called the "Barbie for men". Also, it's unique in that the design is off patent, and ARs are made by dozens of companies - ranging from utility grade to multi-thousand dollar competition rifles.
So, being deprived of one's own private arsenal because of mental illness is seen as "punishment"?
Yes. Just because you do not value the RKBA does not mean others do not. Look at it this way - if your hobby were skydiving, scuba diving, knitting or travel and the govt stepped in and took all your property used to enjoy that hobby (or put you on the no-fly list in case of travel) would you view it as punishment?
And I'm also sure that your friends would give you loads of support whether you needed dialysis or had become mentally ill. Or, are you thinking that you would be stigmatized by them.
No stigma from any friends I've been there for someone else on the mental side. I'd be more concerned about the govt stepping in.
One shooter offered to spearhead a "find a kidney" campaign for me. He lost interest when I gave him the name of my xplant coordinator and told him he could arrange for him to get tested at no charge.
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The primary purpose of swimming pools is NOT for killing and/or damage.
Also, as a pool owner, I am required to take steps to avoid the possibility of accidental drownings. This argument is a red herring.
To make it even more compelling, the third leading cause of death in children is by firearms. http://www.newsweek.com/guns-kids-third-leading-cause-death-627209 (http://www.newsweek.com/guns-kids-third-leading-cause-death-627209)
AR-15s and other assault-style firearms are not tools. They are toys that some people simply want. They are designed for killing as many people as possible in as short a time as possible. Enough is enough. I am not an advocate for elimination of gun ownership, but I want these kinds of weapons out of the hands of my fellow citizens.
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The primary purpose of swimming pools is NOT for killing and/or damage.
Also, as a pool owner, I am required to take steps to avoid the possibility of accidental drownings. This argument is a red herring
As a gun owner, I am required to take steps to avoid accidental shootings. In fact, while the penalties for not taking certain pool precautions is civil/tort, the penalty in my state for leaving a gun unsecured is felony conviction with possible prison time.
Note "making guns the third-leading cause of death for children in America (behind illnesses and unintentional injuries like drownings or car crashes)" in the Newsweek article.
It does not matter what the purpose is. Dead is dead - though a few dozen kids killed over a year spread out over the country is far less dramatic than a single incident. We are allowing swimming pools to satisfy recreational needs even though they result in many kids drowning each year. In other words, pools are simply toys that people want.
If you look at it as a logic puzzle, there is no difference between pools are ARs. Items used for recreation that many people want, but which pose a risk of death. The same logic used to ban ownership of ARs by the little, unimportant people also logically extends to the banning of private swimming pools not under government supervision.
I suppose I am doing my civic duty, as I am keeping a decent supply of ARs out the hands of those who might harm with them.
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hahaha nothing to see here, let's argue about gun safety semantics instead. DiHydrogen Monoxide (http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html) is a mence, wake up sheeple they are pumping it into our kids ...heh let's talk about anything except Trump's involvement with Russia not to mention his habit of paying for sex (https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/donald-trump-a-playboy-model-and-a-system-for-concealing-infidelity-national-enquirer-karen-mcdougal) and paying to keep it quiet (aka willingness to be blackmailed).
Russia conspired against the United States to disrupt the US electoral system. The Trump campaign thought that was a great idea - "love it" ... it's likely worse than any of us imagine. Conspiracy against the United States is not a small matter.
One thing is for sure it is a witch hunt which hunt ... which Trump did which crime.
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The answer Bill is he seems to have done them all. Plus arming teaches with handguns to go up against a moron and his ar15 is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. The chances against killing the moron are astronomical, while the guy with the long gun in almost every case will shoot and kill the pistol carrier. The only time I remember item pistol winning is when two jihadists wore body armor and went to shoot up a cartoonest convention in Texas and a cop with a pistol shot them dead with head shoots. I also remember the LA incident when two bank robbers in body armor shot up a score of LA police armed with hand guns and shotguns.
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Plus arming teaches with handguns to go up against a moron and his ar15 is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
Agreed, plus the dynamic of teachers carrying cop style (on the belt) would the change atmosphere, and present possibilities of a gun grab (I doubt teachers would want to carry a Level III retention holster).
My plan would be:
- A secure gun locker in every classroom, most would be empty
- Trained teachers would have access to an AR15; and vest with a distinctive top-secret color so responding police would recognize them
- One key/combo for all lockers, possessed only by weapons qualified teachers.
- Teachers would be subject to same weapons qualifications as police officers
- Which teachers were weapons qualified would remain secret
Just check Israel - how many killings have occurred because teachers are armed?
Of course, some will say "It's a good thing that football coach who responded and blocked bullets with his body was unarmed, otherwise, somebody could have been hurt."
Sometimes, one has to think outside the box. Note that the vast majority of mass shootings occur in gun free zones.
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The NRA needs to be taken down.
Simon Dog, there is nothing that you have said in any post that would convince rational people that having an AR 15 makes any sense whatsoever. Instead of sending me to some link, why do you, in your own words, tell me how a Barbie for Men is in any way like knitting or skydiving or travelling. Any defense of this fetish is becoming more farfetched and mind boggling.
How did we come to believe that which bathroom transgender people want to use is potentially more harmful to children than who is carrying what kind of weaponry? The right brays about porn and transgender bathrooms yet are strangely silent about babies being murdered with AR-15s. And it is thinking like this that proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the rampant rationalization from NRA funded congresspeople and gun hobbyists is dangerously warped. It is unacceptable.
Who is going to pay for the measures you propose, Simon Dog? Our teachers are already woefully paid, yet you propose giving them yet more to do? Are school districts going to double their pay? Every time a plane either takes off or lands in a US airport, each passenger pays a 9/11 fee that is supposed to pay for extra security measures. Are you going to propose that every time a student enters or leaves a classroom, a security fee will be applicable? How much do you think it is going to cost to outfit every single school in this country in the manner you've outlined? Oh, I have an idea. Make the NRA pay for it ALL.
And this is not effing Israel! That country has been subject to bombings by parties hostile to the Jewish State. Who is hostile to schoolchildren?
Yeah, you're right. Sometimes one does have to think outside of the box. Note that the vast majority of mass shootings are perpetrated by white men. Disarm them.
Oh, and one last thing. What's to stop these murdering white guys from wearing body armor? Are we then going to have to make sure that all of those armed teachers are supplied with armor piercing ammunition? But that's not important, is it. What's really important is that men have their Barbies.
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I also notice that almost all of the recent shootings occur in states with virtually no gun control.
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Simon Dog, there is nothing that you have said in any post that would convince rational people that having an AR 15 makes any sense whatsoever.
It is the height to arrogance to declare that those who do not agree with you are not rational. While I disagree with your position, I do not consider you irrational.
What's to stop these murdering white guys from wearing body armor?
This logic replies to any responder. I doubt you would advise a police response would be ineffective and therefore should not be considered because the bad guy might wear armor.
I would recommend a quality illuminated scope like an ACOG to make head shots practical. Also, most body armor is ineffective against 5.56mm rifle rounds, even if not rated armor piercing.
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The first good solution I have seen to school shootings is by a high school student in I think Oregon he fabricated a small metal device that is attached to the bottom of a door and keeps the door from being opened. Locks have been shot out people have been shot holding the door closed but with this device Doors can be locked from the inside until rescue arrives. Every Clasroom in America needs one of these devices. In the mean time crossbars should be put on every door to stop entry.
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There are quite a few companies making locking devices designed to secure classroom doors. This one made news because "designed by a student" made for good copy, but there are many other equally effective choices already on the market. This design is interesting because the device one has to put in place is very small, however, it requires pre-installation of a baseplate and bracket: https://nightlock.com/classroom-workplace-emergency-lockdown.
There are fire code issues to consider, plus http://idighardware.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Decoded-Oct15-Barricade-Ohio-and-Myths.pdf reports that there has never been an incident where an school shooter has breeched a locked door. One also has to consider the possibility of a problem child using the device to barricade himself inside a classroom. Shooting a lock out is not as easy as one would think, particularly on the high quality wood or steel doors used in commercial construction.
A better solution, possibly only practical in new construction, is centrally activated magnetic locks for a "one button lockdown".
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Simon Dog, I find you to be extraordinarily rational, and that's why your increasingly indefensible position this type of weaponry (to the point that you are a one-issue voter) is so alarming.
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I could equally call your position "indefensible" (and most of my friends would agree), but I would consider that highly disrespectful so I won't.
Logic question:
1. Assume a legal consumer product is responsible for tens of children's deaths per year
2. That project is bought for the enjoyment of the purchaser or the purchaser's family.
Should that product be banned?
Should the answer to the question be different if the product was a gun vs some other dangerous if misused product?
What would you say to the families of kids killed because the product was not banned?
Would what you say be different if the product was a gun vs. swimming pool? Why?
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Calling my position "indefensible" is not "highly disrespectful" at all. That would be your opinion, and you are allowed that. And you can call me arrogant. Just don't do it with an AR-15.
Your defense seems to be that guns are "Barbies for Men". I love that analogy and intend to use is widely.
Look at Marco Rubio's pitiful responses to questions at CNN's town hall last night. "Indefensible" is the word that comes to mind.
There have been many, many "legal consumer products" that have been responsible for children's deaths and for the deaths of adults, too, and those products have been recalled and/or banned.
Your logic questions assume that there is an equitable analogy between swimming pools and weapons of war. White men don't take swimming pools into schools so that they can kill kids. But I can tell you this much. There is a growing problem with acid attacks in the UK, so Parliament is seeking to, and major retailers are banning sales of these legal products to people under 18. It is easy to kill and/or maim people (mainly women for some reason) with guns and acids, but it's not so easy to do so with swimming pools (unless you seek to smother someone with a deflated one, I suppose, but that sounds like too much work).
To pose the idea that men use guns to murder people as being merely an example of "misusing a product" is, yes, I will say it, indefensible. If you take that statement as being "highly disrespectful", so be it.
Why can we not at least ban this particular weapon? Do men need this particular type of Barbie?
Can we at least ban the possession of armor piercing bullets? Do men's Barbies need that kind of accessorizing?
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Can we at least ban the possession of armor piercing bullets?
Already done. Bullets designed for armor piercing have already been banned in the US. The issue, however, is that rifle bullets by their very nature (typical speeds around 3000fps) will pierce virtually all NIJ rated Level I-III soft body armor, but not ceramic or metal level IV plate.
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The suggestion of the Presidunce to arm teachers has a disquieting fact just released about it. A fully trained Broward county Sheriff’s deputy was on duty at the latest shooting and he waited out side till the shooting stopped. He has been suspended and has resigned. If a fully trained cop won’t go in with a hand gun I think it’s ludicrous to expect teachers to have enough training to deal with a active shooter. Solution dems need to control enough state legislators to amend the constitution to remove the second amendment. Control 38 states and the admendment could be passed. Never mind vengeance if the NRA morons want to use the second admendment to give out hunting licenses for children. Then the American people need to vote out of office all of the NRA employees who don’t work for the people but for the Gun club. If the Republicans won’t support reasonable gun control then let’s just ban all guns by eliminating the second admendment.
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If a fully trained cop won’t go in with a hand gun I think it’s ludicrous to expect teachers to have enough training to deal with a active shooter.
There was an unarmed football coach who ran towards the shooting and blocked bullets with his considerable girth. Good thing he was unarmed; someone might have been hurt :(. Oh wait, someone was hurt - he was killed.
Every in-duh-vidual will respond in his/her own way when fate asks him/her to put his life on the line. Not everyone will be up to the task - badge or no badge.
Plus, if you note my suggestion, I think the emergency equipment lockers should have AR15s for teachers, plus a distinctive color vest so they can be recognized by responding officers.
We all know Fox is biased towards the right. Its interesting to see that CNN was reportedly telling at least one student to "stick to the script" in it's so-called town hall meeting on gun control.
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We all know Fox is biased towards the right. Its interesting to see that CNN was reportedly telling at least one student to "stick to the script" in it's so-called town hall meeting on gun control.
CNN reports that rather than this erroneous "news" the student in question wanted to give a speech instead of answering questions, so they decided not to invite him. The student reinterpreted that as being "scripted" and made that claim to the press. CNN claims to never script answers, but have protocols for inviting guests, such as limiting the amount of time they have to pontificate.
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Of equal importance, and what this thread was originally about, is the fact that Trump's campaign manager and asst. campaign manager have both been indicted AGAIN. Rick Gates as agreed to testify against Manafort, who could very well end up in prison for the rest of his life. Just to refresh your collective memories, both of these men have financial ties to Russia that are decidedly shady, hence the two sets of indictments.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/robert-mueller’s-new-indictment-of-paul-manafort-and-rick-gates-explained/ar-BBJtFvt
Let's play the "Can you imagine if Obama...." game.
Can you imagine if Obama's campaign had been headed by two fraudsters, one of whom worked as a propagandist (Manafort) for the Putin backed strong man of the Ukraine who had jailed his political opponent? Can you imagine the righteous indignation of the entire GOP?
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What I finally realized was that the gun club will not compromise on sane gun control. They object to stopping people on the terrorist watch list being banned from buying guns. They can’t fly but they can purchase a high powered military grade weapon. Since 65 percent of all Americans support reasonable gun control. The only option left is to rewrite the second admendment into a reasonable peice of the constitution banning all weapons that did not exist prior to 1865. Remember no other right given by the Constitution is inlimited even the cherished 1 admendment does not let you scream fire in a crowded theater. Again no compromise on gun control ban em all. Then allow a small selection of approved guns. We are allowing a small and deluded set of people to allow the crazy or the terrorist to hunt down and kill our children. If you support gun control never vote for the death merchants who sell their vote to the NRA.
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People on my side have no problem with a system to deny terrorists weapons. The system should include due process, including a hearing before an impartial finder of fact, the right to see all evidence used against you, and the right to confront any witness against you via sworn cross examination. The same should go for any other deprivation of right or liberty, including the right to use public transport of any form. We head down a slippery slope when the government can use secret evidence against citizens without any provision for due process.
The 2A is VERY limited. Just read NFA 34, GCA 68, 18 USC 922(g), and the thousands of state laws. In my state, being found not guilty of a crime or exercising fifth amendment rights has been upheld by the courts as valid reasons to deny an individual their 2A rights.
I do believe in compromise, but compromise is both sides getting and giving. How would you feel about a compromise like "extended background checks including mental health" that went along with driver's license style carry permit reciprocity? Or do you mean "take less from the other side than you want and come back for the rest later" form of compromise? "Compromises" offered by the other side are rarely anything other than "give us some of what we want, we give you nothing".
Also, it is not possible to buy a politician. They can only be rented. ::)
As to the Trump election thing - this whole fiasco is proving one thing. It is not how you play the game that counts but whether you win or lose when it comes to federal elections. A few minions are going to go down, but nothing will change who won and who lost and the big fish on both sides will skate free.
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Still Waiting..... no evidence....
:waiting;
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Dearie me, Rerun, where have you BEEN? LOL!
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Still Waiting..... no evidence....
You not seen the way that, despite advice to the contrary, Trump sucked up to Putin after he won the "election". That cost Trump major popularity loss, and it was blindingly obvious in advance that it would loose him some of his core supporters. He would not have done it if he were not obliged to do so.
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Why won't Trump just release his tax returns to prove that he has no financial reason to collude with Russia?
We all know that there was Russian interference in our election, and people have already been indicted. The question is whether or not Trump knowingly colluded or if he was merely a useful idiot.
I don't think Mueller is going to try to criminally charge him. I do suspect, however, that he has evidence that could possibly lead to impeachment.
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Still Waiting..... no evidence....
I guess you are incapable of recognizing the corruption that oozes from your "savior's" pores and infects everyone he surrounds himself with.
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Still Waiting..... no evidence....
:waiting;
And I am still waiting for Mexico to fork over the pesos for that stupid-ass wall that Trump keeps banging on about. I mean, he DID promise that Mexico would pay for it, right? So, why is it in the budget? And why is Trump yelling about taking the money for it from the military? No one voted for THAT! ???
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Screw payment for the wall.
Mexico can reimburse the US for the free medical care; bi-lingual or Spanish language education; welfare and public assistance that we provide to their illegal immigrants and in return the US can reimburse Mexico for all the medical care, education, and housing that it provides to our citizens illegally residing in Mexico.
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Putin has one friend: Syria. He needs to keep Syria happy because Bashar al-Assad is one of his few allies. But America does not agree with Putin. They consider Al-Assad to be a bad leader, and the Syrian situation to require American intervention, so there are still a couple of thousand American troops over there. Putin hates this. Putin wants them out. But America does not kowtow to Putin, so will not bring it's troops home.
Oops, sorry, forgot: Trump owes Putin, so Trump has to kowtow to Putin. Hence the news this morning was full of reports of Trump's attempts to bring home the troops to keep Putin happy.
Sorry Rerun, your wait is well and truly over.
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OBummer also congratulated Putin on his last victory. Nothing was said about that.
Oh, if Muller could find anything on Trump he would have him in jail. But, What Muller is finding is collusion with the DNC, Hillary, and OBummer with the Russians.
When you point your finger at someone.... three fingers are pointing back at you.
Why do you Libtards want drugs and criminals pouring over into our country? What the hell is wrong with you people? Let people get in line and come here legally.
Trump is doing a great job! MEGA
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OBummer also congratulated Putin on his last victory. Nothing was said about that.
Just because someone else did the same thing, does not make it OK. A couple of my ex-neighbours were drug dealers, that does not make it OK for me to stand outside a high school selling the kids grade A heroin!
Trump is doing a great job! MEGA
That is an entirely different point, for an entirely different debate. The fact that (in your opinion) he is doing a good job does not magically mean he did not have help getting there from Putin. It is quite possible to get a position with the help of a communist dictator and also do a good job.
The problem here is that you think Trump is a good president, and it is blinding you to any bad things he may have done. That is actually quite insulting to Trump, you are not treating him as a human.
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Okay then, just because one person does something does not make it right for others to do it... then Trump should repeal same sex marriage. OBummer made it the law of the land. That doesn't make it right. Deductive reasoning.....
I reserve the right to be wrong... Do you? We will see what Muller finally pulls out of his ass.
If Trump is guilty I will comply. If Trump is "not" guilty then you need to concede.
I'm pretty sure OBummer worshipers were the blind ones. I do think Trump is doing an amazing job. Because I have conservative values and because I get him. I know when he is joking and when he is not. He is human. That is what I love about him.
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Screw payment for the wall.
Mexico can reimburse the US for the free medical care; bi-lingual or Spanish language education; welfare and public assistance that we provide to their illegal immigrants and in return the US can reimburse Mexico for all the medical care, education, and housing that it provides to our citizens illegally residing in Mexico.
What????? Screw payment for the wall? How many times did Trump campaign on forcing Mexico to pay for the wall? He cannot get up in front of his base in, say, Iowa and blather on about reciprocal reimbursement. His fans want to see Mexico paying for the damn wall JUST LIKE HE PROMISED. And it is not going to happen.
Besides, why are you paying so much attention to just Mexico? Are you proposing that Honduras and other Central/South American countries pay for the wall, too?
No, you and I and every American taxpayer are going to have to pay for that wall, so thanks for that. I guess we can use the gazillions of extra money we all get because of the wonderful tax cuts to pay for Trump's obsession.
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Rerun, I've asked you one specific question several times now, and you have never answered. I am genuinely curious, so I will ask yet again...
You are a Christian woman as you've said many, many times on this forum. Your evangelical faith has shined through many of your posts over the years. Why do your morals and evangelical Christian values get kicked to the curb when it comes to Trump?
This man is an adulterer. He is a liar. Why is this OK with you? If you really "get him", then how can you be a true Christian?
This man lives to humiliate people he regards as not being on his side. His name calling is immature. But you "get him".
Donald Trump is incapable of empathy. He has surrounded himself with people who have used their positions to collude with Russian (see Manafort) and to enrich themselves. Yet you "get him".
Donald Trump is no conservative as any true conservative will tell you (see George Will, for one). Which "conservative values" does he have? He has Fox News values, nothing more. No one knows what he stands for. He will say one thing on one day to distract his base, and the very next day he will either do the opposite or will do nothing, all behind the backs of his voters. Do you "get" this?
Trump can't repeal same sex marriage because he is not representative of the Judicial Branch. And that's another problem with this president. He does not know what he can and cannot do Constitutionally. Do you "get" that?
Yes, we will see what Mueller and his team find out. And then we will see what Congress does with that information.
But perhaps in the end, it won't matter because as of now, Democrats are getting the votes in elections all over the nation. Those people who voted for Trump because they thought he'd be his own version of "hope and change" already see that they don't want "dread and fear", and they will vote accordingly. But those Trump voters who voted for him because they think he's "like me" will probably continue to do so. Those people who "get" Trump will never be convinced otherwise.
It is probably true that Obama congratulated Putin for winning an election, but the point is that Obama did not do so while he was under investigation for colluding with the Russians as they hacked our election. :rofl;
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then Trump should repeal same sex marriage. OBummer made it the law of the land. That doesn't make it right. Deductive reasoning.....
What law did Obama create regarding same sex marriage?
I seem to remember that the US Supreme Court ruled the Defense of Marriage Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Marriage_Act) was unconstitutional?
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Well, iolaire, everyone knows that Obama secretly thought he was a King, and a Muslim one at that. ::)
Can you IMAGINE the nuclear explosion that would have resulted among conservatives, especially the Evangelical Christians, if Obama had committed adultery and had been sued by a porn star? Isn't it nice that Trump gets a "mulligan"? But it's OK because his voters "get him".
Does anyone remember the grief that Obama got for wearing beige trousers?
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Does anyone remember the grief that Obama got for wearing beige trousers?
To be fair I glanced at this for a bit this morning What Is Going on with Trump’s Pant Legs? One Humble Theory (https://www.yahoo.com/news/going-trump-pant-legs-one-110000102.html).
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]I reserve the right to be wrong... Do you?[/size]
To be honest, if I am wrong then America is truly screwed. I am working on the theory that Trump kowtows to Putin because he owes him for the election. But if I am wrong, the only reason for Trump to kowtow to Putin is that Trump is a closet commie, and really, really, really don't want the US president to be a commie!
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MM - You continue to throw my faith in my face. Christians accept the blood of Jesus Christ for forgiveness.... again and again. I need forgiveness everyday (sad to say) but all I can do is try. My faith gives me hope for eternal life. And living on dialysis as you know.... oh wait you don't know. So, as a Christian Woman I don't like that Trump has had 3 wives and probably cheated on them all. But, when Bill Clinton did it .... oh, that had nothing to do with his political life. So, again, I should not be Judging Clinton, but I needed to make my point. If Obama ever cheated on Michelle My Belle.... She would KILL him and I think he pretty much knows that. Does that answer your question about my faith ?? You continue to call me stupid and try to make me feel uneducated and frivolous. That is fine, I can take it. I hope it makes you feel better.
I "Get" when Trump threatens Tariffs, that he is just shaking things up so China and Canada have to look at the uneven playing field. Then they may both pull back on such a ridiculous slant. I "Get" him being tough with Kim in N. Korea. And look.... they are going to talk. I "get" that the tax cuts have put $75 a month more in my friend's pay check and that is not "crumbs" to him. I "get" that Trump is kidding when he said we should go to an indefinite term for President. He laughed and so did I. Your Media went ballistic down that rabbit hole for a week.. I laughed again.
I think your elitist attitude gets in the way of commonsense.
Where is your tolerance and diversity?
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Thank you for finally answering my question, RR. I am very glad to hear that you "don't like it" that the man you voted for to occupy the highest elected office in the United States of America is an adulterer and a liar.
I don't need to throw anybody's faith in their face, but I will throw hypocrisy in that direction.
Far from denigrating your faith, I admire it and wish I had it.
I didn't ask you about Bill Clinton, but I can certainly understand why you'd judge him. If I had been living in the US at that time, I'd certainly be judging him!
I live in a state where farming is an essential industry, and the people where I live don't "get" that Trump is threating tariffs and most certainly do NOT appreciate him "shaking things up" with China just for the hell of it.
I hope your friend's extra $75 will make him feel really good as the billionaires get 1,000 time that much in tax cuts.
I hope that extra $75 will make him feel even better while Trump gets money from Russia.
An extra $75 SHOULD feel like crumbs! That's the whole point.
When have I EVER called you stupid? I'm sure you think a lot of my views are stupid, and I feel the same about some of yours, too, but I've never called you stupid because I don't think you are.
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And living on dialysis as you know.... oh wait you don't know.
Well said, Rerun. A line has been crossed.
I've been a part of this community for a very long time, and I can honestly say that I have never...not once...felt harmed or hurt by any comment directed at me in this "Political Debate Forum". I've never taken any comment personally because as I see it, we are all in this ESRD thing together, and that is what counts. None of this other political bluster is really important.
But when I read this particular comment, something broke.
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I guess I'm just a little jealous. opps sinned again. But, having to actually sit on the machine for hours and feeling like crap and going in for fistulagram after fistulagram . Well, it ain't for sissies! You got to skip out on that and that is wonderful. But, as close as you were to dialysis you didn't have to do that.
I'm not going to look through the thousands of posts to find the stupid remark or similar descriptive words but the way it made me feel.....
Anyone with kidney disease or cares for one with kidney disease is one of us. Transplant is another form of dialysis (the best one).
My choice at Election 2016 time was a Man who "may" have cheated on his wives (although they seem to support his presidency)
or a Liar Liar pantsuit on fire woman who was STILL married to a Man who cheated on her and she degraded those woman and didn't believe them... UGH!
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No one can call our Rerun a sissy.
I'm acutely aware of the fact that as close as I came to dialysis, I did not have to actually do it...YET. I think about that every single time I even LOOK at IHD. I have such conflicted emotions about it. On the one hand, I could have just left the community. I got my new kidney, I didn't have to go on dialysis, so off I could go! That would have been the easiest thing to do. But I thought that perhaps I still had something to offer. Perhaps I don't and am only fooling myself.
I also didn't want anyone thinking I'd abandoned the community that I had grown to be quite fond of over the years.
I joined IHD because my kidneys were dying and also because my mother had just had surgery that ended up killing her kidneys. We lived in different cities, but whenever we were together, I was her primary caregiver. I've seen the dark side of dialysis.
My mother contracted a UTI that led to sepsis. I flew down to stay with her in Texas for two weeks while she was in intensive care. She was hallucinating and screaming at me while I was on the phone with the tx bods in Wisconsin; they were trying to tell me that they would list me once they were assured I had adequate insurance. I should have been happy that day, but I wasn't, obviously.
I had to leave my mother's bedside because I had already skipped one appointment with my neph and couldn't afford to miss another. I flew home, and the next day (the day of my appointment), she died. I didn't get the chance to say goodbye because of my damned kidneys and the stupid bureaucracy.
I know that none of this compares to what you've had to do to just survive. I don't really know why I'm talking about it. I have never shared that particular story with anyone other than my husband. I guess that ESRD, whether it is your own or your mother's, is just so painful in so many ways that never really occur to you until you're there.
I've been reading your posts for such a long time, and I cringe every time I read about yet another fistulagram or yet another setback of some sort. I feel such dismay whenever I read that your spirits are low, or you are feeling hopeless, or you are feeling bitter or angry or frustrated. It makes me feel helpless. But I recognize my feelings are irrelevant and useless. Still, I wanted you to know.
I wish I could heal you.
The last thing you need is for someone here on IHD making you feel stupid, and for that, I am deeply sorry. That was certainly not my intention, but if I made you feel bad in any way, my intention is irrelevant.
Your explanation of your choice at Election 2016, in those words, actually makes sense to me, believe it or not!
I just hope we're not going to have to learn Russian! :rofl;
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Now Rerun and MM just shake hands! I don't care if this thread is 'thick skin requiered'. Stop being personally insulting and annoying. I'm sure it doesn't make anyone happy or feeling any better. There's enough crap happening in this world without you two adding to it. And nothing to do with the thread.
Love y'all, Cas
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I just hope we're not going to have to learn Russian! :rofl;
Why not? :rofl; It's a beautiful language. Even Myfortic sounds better... Майфортик! :lol;
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MM I don't want you to ever leave the community! You welcome many people who are new and need a kind word. You are the only one I know with the experience of digging in your heals and getting on the list before you actually needed dialysis. Most people stay in denial. I'm glad you shared your time with your Mother. Those were tough choices.
There are so many Russians in Spokane that I may not notice if we had to learn Russian. They are hard workers and came her legally and if they are from The Ukraine.... they will tell you. They are not Russian.. Yea whatever.
Now, so I don't get yelled at for being off topic.... We all have to wait and see what Muller comes up with.
Also, The Tariffs are not in place. They are just sparring, which Trump is good at. And this is a good time to get that over with because the soybeans are not planted yet. Yes, I know they have them in storage and need to get rid of them. Do you think China wants to starve? If we stop getting things from China, the good ol' USA may have to start making clothes and Televisions again. That is why we have farm supports in America. To ensure we have food home grown so we don't get starved out by relying on other countries for our food. The wool support program is to ensure American production of wool. We have a Cotton program, Milk program, Grain program.... We will see.
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Now Rerun and MM just shake hands! I don't care if this thread is 'thick skin requiered'. Stop being personally insulting and annoying. I'm sure it doesn't make anyone happy or feeling any better. There's enough crap happening in this world without you two adding to it. And nothing to do with the thread.
Love y'all, Cas
I agree with Cas.
Both of you-and most everyone I can think of here are all wonderful and extremely 'well read' folks. I don't comment much, especially in this thread...but I don't think arguing your viewpoints and throwing veiled insults is going to change either of your minds...or anyone else's.
The sad fact is that our country revels in the fact that the people in this country are so divided... Just imagine what we could do if we all joined together as one (Cue John Lennon Imagine song here)!
One thing that my daughter taught me with all of her struggles is to live each day for what it is...a gift, also to love like it's my last day on Earth-and to tolerate the best that I can, others viewpoints :grouphug;
Have a great weekend, y'all!
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I have such conflicted emotions about it. On the one hand, I could have just left the community. I got my new kidney, I didn't have to go on dialysis, so off I could go! That would have been the easiest thing to do. But I thought that perhaps I still had something to offer. Perhaps I don't and am only fooling myself.
No you are not fooling yourself, your posts here are useful. No one wants you to leave.
I agree, Rerun's comment went a little past the line but don't let that get to you. Remember, you are arguing against her politics and you also brought up her religion. The two subjects that are most likely to evoke a " **** you " response. Don't let it get to you, although she did go further than she should have done, it would have been a "heat of the moment" comment, not meant to be as vicious as it came out.
I'm not going to look through the thousands of posts to find the stupid remark or similar descriptive words but the way it made me feel....
I also have no intention to try and find a post where you are called "stupid", but if I did I doubt if I would find one because I tend to notice posts where people descend into personal abuse. I am guessing what she said was that your views were stupid, which is a different thing altogether. I could quote one of Professor Stephen Hawkins' views that most people (myself included) would call stupid, but no one would call the late professor "stupid".
However if you feel stung by such replies, it is most likely that this is because deep down you are aware that the comments referred to as "stupid" are in fact stupid comments.
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However if you feel stung by such replies, it is most likely that this is because deep down you are aware that the comments referred to as "stupid" are in fact stupid comments.
:thumbdown;
:thumbdown;
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However if you feel stung by such replies, it is most likely that this is because deep down you are aware that the comments referred to as "stupid" are in fact stupid comments.
:thumbdown;
:thumbdown;
Just posting smilies is never clear. Are you saying "thumbs down" to the fact that Rerun subconsciously felt MooseMom was correct, or "thumbs down" to the fact that I defended what MooseMom said? The two are kind of opposites, but you leave no clue as to which side of that fence you are sitting.
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However if you feel stung by such replies, it is most likely that this is because deep down you are aware that the comments referred to as "stupid" are in fact stupid comments.
:thumbdown;
:thumbdown;
Just posting smilies is never clear. Are you saying "thumbs down" to the fact that Rerun subconsciously felt MooseMom was correct, or "thumbs down" to the fact that I defended what MooseMom said? The two are kind of opposites, but you leave no clue as to which side of that fence you are sitting.
Thought the hand gesture would make it easy for you to understand. Just thought it wasn't cool to come between other people and their debate with your rude comments.
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Hey, everyone...everything is fine, OK? I made a real dog's dinner out of a question I had about the strong support from evangelical Christians to a president who is not remotely "Christian". I asked a reasonable question (and, to be fair, a question that a lot of people have asked) in an unreasonable tone, and I can see where it made Rerun feel that I was questioning the nature of her faith. While that was not my intention, it came across that way, and I've apologized wholeheartedly and really quite publically. My interest was not in one person's faith, rather, it was a query about the intersection of the faith/religious tenets of a particular group of people and one singular political figure. I just want to be clear about that, OK?
Rerun is entirely correct in saying that we just need to wait and see what Mueller finally has to report. I am concerned about the findings and what they might mean. If Trump's presidency is damaged, it will further reinforce the idea that his is an illegitimate presidency, especially given that his opponent won more votes than he did. While I do think that the US remains politically divided after Trump's election, I fear that the chasm will deepen if Mueller DOES end up finding a direct link between Russia and Trump himself.
If Mueller does NOT find such a direct link, half the country won't believe it, and again we will have that deepening chasm. People believe what they want to believe all too often, and I fully recognize that there are many people who WANT Trump found guilty of a hanging offense. If they do not feel vindicated, they will be as harmful as those people who believed that Obama wasn't an American citizen, not based on any evidence, rather, just based on what they WANTED to believe.
So, again, everything is fine between me and Rerun. I've made my sincere apologies! We're good!
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Just thought it wasn't cool to come between other people......
I take it then that you are unaware of the point of an online debate. So for your benefit: the idea is that anyone can join in and put their point across.
........with your rude comments.
And also that you are unaware of the working of the human brain. My comment was an accurate point about how those things work. You simply do not get offended in a debate when someone says your point is stupid unless either (a) you believe deep down that they are stupid or (b) you are a rookie debater with no experience and no backbone. Rerun is far from a rookie debater, and I am reasonably sure she is vertebrate.
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I made a real dog's dinner
Ok, this is pushing it. I feed my dog great dinners.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/09/us/politics/fbi-raids-office-of-trumps-longtime-lawyer-michael-cohen.html
"The searches open a new front for the Justice Department in its scrutiny of Mr. Trump and his associates: His longtime lawyer is being investigated in Manhattan; his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, is facing scrutiny by prosecutors in Brooklyn; his former campaign chairman is under indictment; his former national security adviser has pleaded guilty to lying; and a pair of former campaign aides are cooperating with Mr. Mueller. Mr. Mueller, meanwhile, wants to interview Mr. Trump about possible obstruction of justice."
Is this bad? This sounds bad.
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@ Bill Peckham
Did you not hear President Trumps reaction yesterday? It is a disgrace and an assault on our country. LOL ;D
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Mueller must have compelling evidence for a judge to alow a search of a lawyers office, however if a lawyer is a participant in a crime the lawyer client privilege is broken if there is sufficient evidence that they lawyer was actively engaged in the crime. I think the Presidunce is hearing the footsteps closing in on him.
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Mueller must have compelling evidence for a judge to alow a search of a lawyers office, however if a lawyer is a participant in a crime the lawyer client privilege is broken if there is sufficient evidence that they lawyer was actively engaged in the crime. I think the Presidunce is hearing the footsteps closing in on him.
But see what you are entirely overlooking is that during the Clinton presidency Wellesley College hid Hillary D. Rodham's senior thesis. Even now you have to go to Wellesley College if you want to read it! :boxing;
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To equate a paper written by a 21 year old college student with a investigation that has led to the conviction of the former national security advisor, assistant campaign manager, several other flunkies and the indictment of the campaign manager plus who knows what else will be turned up. This comparison is sort of like equating a candy stealing kid with a gang that shot up a bank during a robbery.
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To equate a paper written by a 21 year old college student with a investigation that has led to the conviction of the former national security advisor, assistant campaign manager, several other flunkies and the indictment of the campaign manager plus who knows what else will be turned up. This comparison is sort of like equating a candy stealing kid with a gang that shot up a bank during a robbery.
Its a (bad) joke, as more and more (or is it all?) of Trumps circle is under federal investigation we can be sure that their supporters will fall back on blaming Hillary for something.
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I thought your joke was funny, iolaire.
:2thumbsup;
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To equate a paper written by a 21 year old college student with a investigation that has led to the conviction of the former national security advisor, assistant campaign manager, several other flunkies and the indictment of the campaign manager plus who knows what else will be turned up. This comparison is sort of like equating a candy stealing kid with a gang that shot up a bank during a robbery.
Its a (bad) joke, as more and more (or is it all?) of Trumps circle is under federal investigation we can be sure that their supporters will fall back on blaming Hillary for something.
The PO(TU)S actually tried to deflect to Hillary last night. WHAT??? With the whole Stormy Daniels situation the PO(TU)S has lied himself into a corner.
:popcorn; :popcorn; :popcorn;
To say this is getting interesting is the understatement of the year.
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Its a (bad) joke, as more and more (or is it all?) of Trumps circle is under federal investigation we can be sure that their supporters will fall back on blaming Hillary for something.
It doesn't matter how bad it gets for Trump. People will always overlook the felonies of the leaders who represent their values, but condemn those of the opposition. We didn't see Democrats voting for Trump because of Uranium One, Pay for Play, etc. and we won't see Republicans voting for the Democrat because of Trumps strange and evil doings.
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we won't see Republicans voting for the Democrat because of Trumps strange and evil doings.
I disagree, look at George W. The joke in Europe after Obama got elected was that George W did such an awful job that even the Republicans forgot they were racist and voted for a black man.
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It doesn't matter how bad it gets for Trump. People will always overlook the felonies of the leaders who represent their values, but condemn those of the opposition. We didn't see Democrats voting for Trump because of Uranium One, Pay for Play, etc. and we won't see Republicans voting for the Democrat because of Trumps strange and evil doings.
I'm not so sure about this. It DOES matter how bad it gets for Trump because if the GOP lose their Congressional majorities in the midterms, they will dump Trump in a hurry when he is seen as a liability.
No one knew anything about "Uranium One" or "Pay for Play", but EVERYONE knows about Stormy Daniels, Robert Mueller, a presidential election that wasn't won with a majority of votes, and the Russian investigation.
Interesting that the word "felony" was used here. A criminal conviction or an impeachment for collusion is a lot different from "strange and evil doings."
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To say that Trump is "not a Christian" is judging. Only God knows his heart. Same for Obama, God knows his 'Muslim' heart, or whatever. Just using an example.
Now, I feel the left went too far to rush in and confiscate this mans stuff at home, office and hotel. Nothing has to do with Russia. It has to do with Stormy Daniels funds? $130,000 ??
It is crumbs to what most men pay. Let's pull up what other congressmen and other presidents have paid to keep a trap shut. (that did not sound good)
Muller is supposed to be investigating a Russia Collusion. They are going after bank fraud and old one night stands. No Russian made me vote the way I voted. Nor did a Russian make you vote the way you did.
I feel the FBI will plant something to make him guilty. Like that hasn't happened before.
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I disagree, look at George W. The joke in Europe after Obama got elected was that George W did such an awful job that even the Republicans forgot they were racist and voted for a black man.
Obama got in because many whites like his message and voted for him. Blacks (at the 95%+ level) voted their race. So, which group was racist?
The switch voters were the true independents. My wife voted for Obama and then for Trump, and has never felt an allegiance to any party. She also is an example of how Hillary is wrong when she says women vote as their husbands instruct.
What is worse? Paying someone $130K to STFU, or lying in sworn testimony to fight a suit for significant financial damages for sexual harassment? Trump did the former and Bill Clinton the later. I view the latter as worse, as it was an attempt to influence the judicial process and effectively "steal" from a plaintiff rather than just preserve privacy.
But, the idea an attorney would mortgage his home and cough up $130K without the beneficiary of the hush money knowing about it stretches credibility,
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To say that Trump is "not a Christian" is judging. Only God knows his heart. Same for Obama, God knows his 'Muslim' heart, or whatever. Just using an example.
You're absolutely right. I AM judging. And so is God.
Now, I feel the left went too far to rush in and confiscate this mans stuff at home, office and hotel. Nothing has to do with Russia. It has to do with Stormy Daniels funds? $130,000 ??
It is crumbs to what most men pay. Let's pull up what other congressmen and other presidents have paid to keep a trap shut. (that did not sound good)
The "left" has nothing to do with the FBI raid on Michael Cohen. Mueller found evidence of possible bank/campaign fraud against him and referred it on. The FBI had to get permission from the US Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York (who is a Trump appointee, deliciously) to get a warrant. Getting a warrant to search the premises of an attorney is particularly onerous, so the very fact that a warrant was granted means someone is in big, bad trouble. Or maybe not. It is entirely possible that the information gleaned by the FBI raid will exonerate Cohen.
It is relevant to the Stormy Daniels payout because it could be evidence in bank fraud and campaign fraud. Cohen said he paid himself, but do we really believe that is true? If campaign funds were paid to a porn start 2 days before the election to keep her quiet, that is a crime.
Muller is supposed to be investigating a Russia Collusion. They are going after bank fraud and old one night stands. No Russian made me vote the way I voted. Nor did a Russian make you vote the way you did.
And he is still doing that. And yes, they are going after bank fraud, and quite rightly so.
No Russian made either of us vote the way we did, but can we say the same for that small number of voters in states like Michigan? Not everyone is as smart as the two of us, Rerun!! :2thumbsup; Remember, Trump loves the "poorly educated".
I feel the FBI will plant something to make him guilty. Like that hasn't happened before.
Why would the FBI plant anything? What would be their motivation? I think that if anyone would plant "evidence", especially if said evidence is in electronic form, it would be the Russians. They have everything to gain by creating yet more chaos. This is what they DO!
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What is worse? Paying someone $130K to STFU, or lying in sworn testimony to fight a suit for significant financial damages for sexual harassment? Trump did the former and Bill Clinton the later. I view the latter as worse, as it was an attempt to influence the judicial process and effectively "steal" from a plaintiff rather than just preserve privacy.
But, the idea an attorney would mortgage his home and cough up $130K without the beneficiary of the hush money knowing about it stretches credibility,
But if the STFU money came from campaign funds, then there is a problem. If you think the case against Clinton was worse, then so be it, but Clinton is not The President now.
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Muellars charter is to investigate ANY criminal activity that he uncovered . That’s why ken Star investigated the Monica Lewinski affair with Clinton. Demonizing the Clintons for things that happened over 20 years ago does not take away from the situation the US finds it self in today. We have a special counsel investigating if the current Presidunce conspired with a hostile foreign power to influence a American election. Remember Mueller is not a Democrat, he is was and probably will always be a Republican. What he also is, is a Patriotic Law enforcement individual charged with a investigation. As he developes more and more evidence we are regaled by more and more tweets about the unfairness and more and more finger pointing at his 2016 opponent in attempt to deflect from the reality of what is going on. Mueller needs to be allowed to complete his investigation since if the alligations prove true we have a Quisling as Presidunce.
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Now, I feel the left went too far to rush in and confiscate this mans stuff at home, office and hotel. Nothing has to do with Russia. It has to do with Stormy Daniels funds? $130,000 ?? It is crumbs to what most men pay. Let's pull up what other congressmen and other presidents have paid to keep a trap shut.
Whereas I agree with you that the Stormy Daniels thing is peanuts compared to the Russian thing, that does not excuse it. "Oh he done much worse, so let him off the minor thing" is not a good policy, and it sends a message that America welcomes corrupt presidents, provided they keep it low key.
Similarly, the argument "other people done worse" is also bad policy. There were some seriously corrupt presidents in the past (going right back to that guy who kept chopping down apple trees :) ), you cannot simply excuse the current president because a predecessor did worse (that goes for all of them, not just Trump).
However the thing that strikes me here is how many people are offering excuses for Trump. This thread alone is full of "Obama/Clinton/Clinton did worse" type comments. The thing about excuses, is that you have to have done something wrong to need one. Those people posting for Trump keep posting excuses, so obviously accept that he did something wrong. In other words this is not a "Trump, good or bad?" thread, it is a "Trump, bad or very bad?" thread.
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There is nothing "Corrupt" about:
a) Having sex with a porn star as long as it was consensual
b) Paying her to STFU
The only thing that may be wrong here is a third party paying the hush money as a de-facto campaign donation in excess of legal limits and without the required federal reporting.
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Simon Dog, do you get different news reports in America to the rest of the world? Because the rest of us know that, if what his critics accuse him of is correct, it is indeed a serious crime. (In this case I'm not 100% convinced that Trump is guilty, but if he is not guilty he is an idiot for not keeping tighter control.)
The crime is that the $130,000 would have put him over the electoral spending limit. This is why there is such a fuss about whether his lawyer paid it without his knowledge or with. Because if he knew it was paid, his campaign was illegal and he can be impeached or worse (jailed for electoral fraud).
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There is nothing "Corrupt" about:
a) Having sex with a porn star as long as it was consensual
b) Paying her to STFU
The only thing that may be wrong here is a third party paying the hush money as a de-facto campaign donation in excess of legal limits and without the required federal reporting.
No, it is way more complicated than that. If this is the only thing that may be wrong, a search warrant would NEVER have been issued. While we don't know for sure what convinced the US attorney to grant permission for the search, it is fairly certain that said attorney thought there was a good chance that there was evidence of a crime committed contained in communications between Cohen and Trump, that crime being obstruction of justice/investigation at the very least. The fact that this raid was authorized by the US Attorney also says that he didn't believe that Cohen would turn over documents via subpoena; the FBI must have some sort of evidence to suggest that Cohen has in the past refused to cooperate.
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Now the news is saying the FBI break in was about the 2015 Access Hollywood Tape? WHY?
Billy Bush got the stick in the eye over that one. It will be interesting to see what this is all about.
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Simon Dog, do you get different news reports in America to the rest of the world
...
The crime is that the $130,000 would have put him over the electoral spending limit. This is why there is such a fuss about whether his lawyer paid it without his knowledge or with. Because if he knew it was paid, his campaign was illegal and he can be impeached or worse (jailed for electoral fraud).
That crime was mentioned in the last line of my post. Politicians trade in "plausible deniability", but it may not work this time.
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Trump’s allies worry Cohen’s taped conversations are now in hands of FBI (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-allies-worry-that-federal-investigators-may-have-seized-recordings-made-by-his-attorney/2018/04/12/16d6345a-3e89-11e8-912d-16c9e9b37800_story.html)
President Trump’s personal attorney Michael D. Cohen sometimes taped conversations with associates, according to three people familiar with his practice. Legal experts say the recordings “would be considered a gold mine” for prosecutors.
If Trump is such an upstanding guy why do they care if there are taped conversations?
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If Trump is such an upstanding guy why do they care if there are taped conversations?
Exactly. When one lives a life of integrity, dignity, and honesty, one doesn't have to worry about what others reveal about you. So bring it!
No matter what we do, we need to remember that "what goes around comes around."
It certainly sounds like tRump's hens are coming home to roost.
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If Trump is such an upstanding guy why do they care if there are taped conversations?
I'm no defender of Trump (as previous posts will show) but: Come on, you never said anything to a friend that you would hate to hear replayed on the TV news? And when you are president, and hoping for a second term, even a comment like "Look at the ass on that!" can loose you the next election. Or what if he has said something derogatory about his wife, or commented on how hot his wife's sister looks? Would you really want your wife to hear recordings of your "boy's night" conversations, especially on the news?
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All the weeping and moaning about Trumps lawyer is just not real. The one exception for the layer client privilege is if the lawyer participated in the crimet their is no privilege. It appears Cohen has crossed the line into possible Criminal behavior. The justice department just announced he is the subject of a criminal investigation. My understanding is that a judge will ex’amine all the evidence and give Mueller what involved criminal activity. Remember just advising a client about the use of weapons during a crime is just enough to involve the lawyer in the crime. This is beginning to look like Watergate as Nixon became more and more isolated.
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http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article208870264.html
If this report is true - that Cohen traveled to Prague in late summer 2016 - then that's our answer, right? The Trump campaign sought to conspire with the Russians to undermine the Clinton campaign. Trump took part in a conspiracy against the United States.
What's the innocent explanation Trump supporters? We are still at the stage that they are denying the trip but assume for a moment that the McClatchy reporting is accurate how will you wave this activity away?
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What's the innocent explanation Trump supporters?
No innocent explanation.
Politics is a full-contact sport and it is not how you play the game that counts, but whether you win or lose. The currency is plausible deniability.
Trump won, and will not be personally convicted, thus proving that his strategy was the correct one, just like "pay to play" was the correct strategy for the Clinton Foundation.
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Simon Dog, really now, the false equivalency needs to stop. We are talking about the Presidency of the United States of America, the Office of the Leader of the Free World, not some politician's "foundation".
Are you sure that Trump has won? Who decides when the game is over? In politics, it is NEVER over.
If it's not how you play the game that counts, then why is Trump so scared of the Mueller investigation?
Who decides what victory looks like? If the Republicans lose the House in the mid-terms, will you still say that Trump has won?
It doesn't matter if, in the end, he is not "personally convicted" because the damage is already done. His presidency is in tatters. He is the laughing stock of the world. He is admired by few and beloved by no one. He may have won an election, but he has not won "governing".
He's even thinking about rejoining the TPP! Oh, we're so tired of all the winning!
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Are you sure that Trump has won?
Last I checked, he got to move into public housing and Hillary had to stay at her place in NY.
If the Republicans lose the House in the mid-terms, will you still say that Trump has won?
Yes, but his party will have lost. It's the political equivalent of "The operation was a success but the patient died".
We are talking about the Presidency of the United States of America, the Office of the Leader of the Free World, not some politician's "foundation".
That was about the US Secretary of State selling access to her office. The political equivalent of selling access to her orifice.
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Oh, Trump hates the White House; he's already said that it was a dump. Besides, he's rarely there.
Trump isn't a Republican, and the GOP doesn't know what it is, anymore. Why else do you think Paul Ryan has called it a day?
In this case, the American people are "the patient". #sad
No one cares about any of this biffle about HRC and any supposed selling access to anything. But if she had won the election, then I guess the Republicans would try to have a go at it. She'd probably be going through what Trump is going through now, so again, I'm not sure Trump has won much of anything. Pyrrhic victory.
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No one cares about any of this biffle about HRC and any supposed selling access to anything.
Republicans say the same thing about the Trump/Russia thing.
People on both sides overlook what their people do and condemn the sins of the other side.
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Are you sure that Trump has won?
If he gets through his entire term without being impeached, then he has won.
If he does this and gets a second term, then he has won BIG TIME.
However if that happens, I really will give up on the American voting public.
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Just for the record impeachment does not remove the president from office. The removal process is a 2 step procedure. The first step is impeachment (This is the equivalent of a indictment in a criminal prosecution). Two presidente have Ben impeached Andrew Johnson And William Clinton. The second step is a trial in front of the senate with the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court acting as Judge and the Senate acting as the Jury. Johnson and Clinton were found innocent at these trials so were not removed from office.
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Republicans say the same thing about the Trump/Russia thing.
People on both sides overlook what their people do and condemn the sins of the other side.
This is blatantly untrue.
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Are you sure that Trump has won?
If he gets through his entire term without being impeached, then he has won.
If he does this and gets a second term, then he has won BIG TIME.
However if that happens, I really will give up on the American voting public.
I am not sure that most people in the UK pay much attention to Congressional races, so I'd encourage you to keep watch on the midterm elections in early November.
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I am not sure that most people in the UK pay much attention to Congressional races, so I'd encourage you to keep watch on the midterm elections in early November.
It depends which news source you use. We have what it generally referred to as "the idiots press", where they use short words, short sentences, and pitch articles at people of low IQ (sadly this includes the two most read newspapers in Britain). Those papers give it little coverage. However the broadsheats, television news, and news radio give it plenty of coverage. I tend to get most of my news from a radio show called the Today program, which is a three hour (two on Saturdays) news program broadcast mornings (six to nine). That gives extensive coverage on American politics, your mid terms, etc..
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Republicans say the same thing about the Trump/Russia thing.
People on both sides overlook what their people do and condemn the sins of the other side.
This is blatantly untrue.
How would you know it is untrue?
An excellent example is the office of the Massachusetts Speaker of the House. Three (yes, 3!!) speakers in a row, all Democrats, went to prison for felonies committed while in office. Guess how many were indicted by the Democratic attorney general, and how many by the feds? (I'll give you a hint ... the answer to the first part is zero)
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James Comey, Rod Rosenstein and Robert Mueller are all Republicans, as are many Congresspeople who think the "Trump/Russia thing" is more than just a "thing". There is now a difference between a traditional Republican and a "Trump" Republican, so to say that "Republicans say the same thing..." is a sweeping generalization and makes your statement untrue.
And it is also a sweeping and incorrect generalization that "people on both sides overlook ..." There are many people who voted for Trump because they were sick of the "swamp" in Washington and just wanted to "shake things up". This doesn't mean that they approve of Trump. Far from it. They are just as concerned about this President's policies and behavior as the rest of us. So, they are by NO means "overlooking" what "their people" do.
There were many people who had voted for Obama but did not like Hillary Clinton because they did not "overlook" what they perceived she had done (remember, out of all of those investigations on The Hill, NOTHING came of them. NOTHING. All of those hours with Trey Gowdy were a stonking great waste of time, and he even admitted it.).
Here in Illinois, which is in the iron grip of the Democratic machine mainly because of Chicago, we've seen democratic governors go to jail (Blago, George Ryan, oh goodness, the list goes on), not to mentino good ol' creepy Denny Hastert, but he was a Republican.
So, THAT's how I would know that your statement is blatantly untrue. Most of us are quite capable of critical thinking and don't fall into the chasm of partisan politics.
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One question I have is what happens should Mueller be fired? Assuming the FBI/Justice department has leads on criminal activity wouldn't that just go forward? Mueller leads a huge team of professionals, I have to assume that information on criminal activity would continue to be followed up on?
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If Mueller is fired, the investigation will carry on with his team of champions." It also appears that Mueller is "sharing" everything with the NY AG Schneidermann who can do everything Mueller can but without the risk of pardons.
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K&S is right in that the Mueller investigation is separate from the FBI investigation into Cohen.
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Don’t be to sure that the Cohen investigation poses no risk to Dopey Donald, if the collected evidence shows that Cohen discussed criminal matters with the Presidunce then a judge can make the evidence available to Mueller.
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This is interesting:
Democratic Party files lawsuit alleging Russia, the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks conspired to disrupt the 2016 campaign
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/democratic-party-files-lawsuit-alleging-russia-the-trump-campaign-and-wikileaks-conspired-to-disrupt-the-2016-campaign/2018/04/20/befe8364-4418-11e8-8569-26fda6b404c7_story.html?utm_term=.4bbe6b6d52de
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George Ryan was a republican.
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It is SAD the Dems will not give up. It is ruining our country. Donald Trump had nothing to do with Russia breaking in to the DNC's emails. Geez Please STOP so we can move on.
N. Korea is willing to talk ..... But Romaine Lettuce and Plane Engines take the top stories tonight on DB Media.
:urcrazy;
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During the Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr, Obama administrations NK was willing to talk. Reached agreements several times broke them several times. Until this is shown not to be another NK ploy it’s just a rehash of past behavior.
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It is SAD the Dems will not give up. It is ruining our country. Donald Trump had nothing to do with Russia breaking in to the DNC's emails.
You may be right. But the DNC isn't suing him, rather, they are suing his campaign along with Russia and WikiLeaks.
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I hope Trump sues the DNC, NBC, CBS and ABC! The man is doing GOOD THINGS. Leave him alone!
Trump already said if he goes to the N. Korea meeting and he is not hearing good things he will walk out. Good for Trump!
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... The man is doing GOOD THINGS. Leave him alone!
...
The ends justify the means? Do you really believe that?
Is it your position that all opposition to Trump is politically motivated? All the criminal investigations are baseless and should just go away?
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Democratic Party files lawsuit alleging Russia, the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks conspired to disrupt the 2016 campaign
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/democratic-party-files-lawsuit-alleging-russia-the-trump-campaign-and-wikileaks-conspired-to-disrupt-the-2016-campaign/2018/04/20/befe8364-4418-11e8-8569-26fda6b404c7_story.html?utm_term=.4bbe6b6d52de
While I disagree with most of Reruns defence of Trump, including her comments on this case, I feel this case is a desperate and pathetic publicity stunt by the Democrats and only proves that deep down they are as unworthy of office as the Republicans.
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Actually I think the case has merit. It should have been clear to everyone that the purloined emails were the result of a hacking attack on the Democratic servers. This is a major violation of federal law, cyber security and wire fraud statutes. The publishing of stolen material is a crime, at a minimum it makes the members of this group of defendants guilty of participating in this crime. The lawsuit is the only way the victims of thins crime can get redress. Leaving Trump out is appropriate at thins time since at this time there is no evidence of collusion. Should Mueller find the smoking gun he can be added at a later date.
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Actually I think the case has merit.
That may be true, but even if it is, that does not change nor invalidate what I said.
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The publishing of stolen material is a crime, at a minimum it makes the members of this group of defendants guilty of participating in this crime.
Not sure if this is true, provided the publishing party was not a party to the theft. This logic was used in an earlier area to try to impose prior restraint on publication of the Pentagon Papers.
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Prior restraint is the attempt to ban publication by the goverment. Accessories after the fact are people who while not participants in the planning or carrying out the crime aid and abet the felons in the time after the crime. Every one the democrats are suing are known participants to that crime. This is a goverment that has pardoned two republican felons for political reasons. There is reason to believe that this president would pardon the criminals in this case. So this lawsuit is pardon proof and the participants are libel to the discovery that is part of the civil court process. Generally this suit would not be filed because the victims would not want the evidence made public. Since the criminals have already published well I guess the victims will take them to court and during the discovery process more facts of this case will become know.
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The publishing of stolen material is a crime, at a minimum it makes the members of this group of defendants guilty of participating in this crime.
Not sure if this is true, provided the publishing party was not a party to the theft.
I don't think this is correct, because if it were Julian Assange (WikkiLeaks) would have nothing to worry about, and the American authorities would not be after arresting him, he could come home and live a happy life free in the USA instead of hiding outside the country in an enemy embassy.
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...it is is a desperate and pathetic publicity stunt by the Democrats and only proves that deep down they are as unworthy of office as the Republicans.
Actually, the DNC sued The Committee for the Re-Election of the President (that being Nixon) because of the Watergate scandal, and they won $750,000 in damages. Two years later, Nixon was gone. So this is very, very far from any sort of publicity stunt. This suit has historic precedent AND legal precedent. If the allegations of Trump's campaign, WikiLeaks, and the Russians of collusion are proven to be true, then RussiaGate will be a tea party compared to Watergate.
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I don't think this is correct, because if it were Julian Assange (WikkiLeaks) would have nothing to worry about, and the American authorities would not be after arresting him, he could come home and live a happy life free in the USA instead of hiding outside the country in an enemy embassy.
Assange is as citizen of Australia and Ecuador. Ecuador is not an enemy of the United States. The British are the only ones with an arrest warrant for Assange. He has never indicated a desire to live in the USA. If Trump pardoned Assange tomorrow, Assange would still face arrest and jail in London due to the same problem he has now - a failure to Appear warrant. It isn't really fair to say he is hiding - we all know where he is ... but other than that you're right.
Assange would like a guarantee of a negative - that Britain will not extradite him to the US - Assange does not believe the British, from whom he wants a guarantee, he does not dispute that he did the crime for which there is a British warrant ... it sucks to be Julian Assange, why should I care?
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RussiaGate will be a tea party compared to Watergate.
Did you mean that the other way around?
If you did, my response would be "only in the minds of Democrats". If you meant it as written, I agree.
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Simon Dog, if the allegations are proven to be true and the DNC successfully sues the Trump campaign, et al, then the fallout will be expotentially worse than that of Watergate. Thanks for alerting me to my confusing post! You know me well enough to realize I had misspoken! :2thumbsup;
Watergate was essentially the attempt to subvert an opposition campaign. "RussiaGate" would be the same, IF the allegations are proven to be true. No one disputes the fact that the Russians interfered, but the question remains to what extent did the Trump campaign join Russia in undermining the opposition's campaign? And this wouldn't be "only in the minds of Democrats", because what is to stop the Russians from turning on Trump and undermining the midterms?
I suppose it is entirely possible for people in Trump's campaign to have teamed up with the Russians to get elected without Trump's realization.
But we will just have to wait and see if the lawsuit even moves forward. If the court rules that the DNC has standing, then we're into a different ballgame. But, the court might not rule in their favour after all. To me, it's the Mueller investigation that's important, and adjacently, the investigation into Michael Cohen might turn out to be the most damaging to Trump himself.
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Actually the lawsuit could act as a replacement for the Mueller investigation. The New York Attorney general has a parallel investigation. If Trump kills the Mueller investigation or issues pardons to keep the players from talking the New York Attorney General would be able to keep going since the Presidunce can’t pardon state crimes. A civil suit has more wide ranging discovery rights the a New York grand jury. All told it may act to limit trumps ability to stop the inevitable inestigation of the 2016 election.
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that Britain will not extradite him to the US -
You may be correct about most of these facts, I don't really follow that case now. However you are definitely wrong when you say "Britain will not extradite him to the US". When America demands, Britain tends to capitulate. In the case of arrest warrants it is usually the European Court Of Human Rights that stops us extraditing.
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Confirmed: when a dependent clause is read outside the context of its sentence the meaning can be totally different.
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Muller Report.... :waiting; You guys may be right. There will never be a Muller report now that there is a law suit.
Still will not find anything on Trump. How can Russia influence the Mid-Terms? We will vote for whom we want to vote. Unless they interfere with the actual tabulations....
:banghead;
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So far Muller has guilty pleas from Flynn and Gates 2 major players in the Trump campaign. Other minor players, Cohen is clearly in some federal prosecutors crosshairs and Manafort facing serious charges with serious jail time. No report, Muller is building a case block by block without a rush to judgement, he seems to be willing to follow this case through the twists and turns and as the convictions pile up report or not the public can see the guilty line up in court. The best part of this is that the players in this farce mosltly live in New York and if the Presidunce try’s to end this by firing Mueller or pardoning the key players the New York Attorney General can continue the case under New York law. Trump has no power to pardon or control New York legal cases. If Mueller is fired Schneiderman the New York AG can hire him to continue the investigation, the discovery phase of the Democratic lawsuit cane be used to fill in the gaps of the missing federal grand jury. Is the Presidunce worried, just look at this weekends tweet storm, it appears late at night he is becoming more and more unhinged.
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The ones "guilty" have not admitted to Russian collusion. It is like .... Bank Fraud ..... lying..... They are trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip and it just isn't there.
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I’m sorry has Mueller released grand jury testimony about what Flynn or Gates has testified to. At this point in the investigation Mueller is keeping his cards close to his chest. I don’t know the final out come but if every one is innocent why are every one from the Republican side complaining, and Trump is trying to tweet it away. If no collusion he is innocent but since every word out of the Presidunce mouth is either a lie or a exaggeration I will wait for the Mueller investigation to either clear or indict Trump. As I read the cards it is not looking good for Trump. However it is only time that will tell. The strange thing it appears the only competent appointment in the Trump revolving door administration is Mueller.
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Yep, wait and see........
:thumbup;
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Once upon a time a foreign country refusing to cooperate with a U.S. judicial process in exchange for missiles would be an enormous story.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/02/world/europe/ukraine-mueller-manafort-missiles.html
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But, but, but, Bill. That has to be fake news! No self-respecting tRump supporter would trust anything from the NYT!
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Oh come on - this is theatrical corruption now. Everyone from ATT to Russian Oligarchs have paid millions of dollars to a slush fund for Trump's personal use.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/michael-cohen-took-cash-from-russian-oligarch-after-election?ref=home (https://www.thedailybeast.com/michael-cohen-took-cash-from-russian-oligarch-after-election?ref=home)
ATT is confirming the numbers, as are some of the other Fortune 500 "donors".
Muller is a Marine combat hero, head of the FBI, unblemished record of service to this country. Believes in the rule of law.
Trump is an inept crook
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Think Eric Schneiderman leaked it to Stormy’s lawyers as he sent in his resignation papers?
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mueller-questioned-payment-to-trump-lawyer-michael-cohen/2018/05/09/6ad3a7d6-538d-11e8-a551-5b648abe29ef_story.html?utm_term=.fba6cc049ef2
Separately, Korean Aerospace Industries confirmed to The Washington Post that it paid $150,000 to Cohen’s company, but spokesman Oh Sung-keon said that it was not aware of its connection to Trump.
The company said that it paid Cohen’s firm “to inform reorganization of our internal accounting system.”
I sure wonder how they found this expert on "internal accounting systems"?
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Yeah, Cohen is pretty damn swampy. Trump should fulfill his "drain the swamp" promise to us and give him up to Mueller. This is really so third world.
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I sure wonder how they found this expert on "internal accounting systems"?
Report to moderator Logged
Oh, haven't you heard. Michael Cohen is a modern day DaVinci. A true Renaissance man. :sarcasm;
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The company said that it paid Cohen’s firm “to inform reorganization of our internal accounting system.”
That makes as much sense as Uranium One giving millions to the Clinton Foundation because they wanted to support its mission.
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The company said that it paid Cohen’s firm “to inform reorganization of our internal accounting system.”
That makes as much sense as Uranium One giving millions to the Clinton Foundation because they wanted to support its mission.
Come on. What-about-ism is not a legal defense. I don't recall the what-about clause of the US Constitution, but the Constitution does mention bribery.
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It sounds like Cohen sold back doors to Trump. I don't think Trump knew of that.
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This whole Cohen business is like a Sopranos story line. So then we know you have to kick up or you will get whacked. Cohen wasn't whacked so he must have kicked up.
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I found this story interesting:
Documents Reveal How Russian Official Courted Conservatives In U.S. Since 2009
https://www.npr.org/2018/05/11/610206357/documents-reveal-how-russian-official-courted-conservatives-in-u-s-since-2009
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Has anyone here seen the latest season of Homeland?
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This whole Cohen business is like a Sopranos story line.
If you want to see a Soprano's story line, just look at home many people near the Clintons turned up dead
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If you want to see a Soprano's story line, just look at home many people near the Clintons turned up dead
First of all, just how many people near the Clintons' DID turn up dead? Were the police called? Has anyone been arrested and charged?
Second of all, why do you reply to any and all posts about Trump with some goofy made-up Clinton story? Clinton is not the President, so why the obsession with her? Seriously, though, just look at Trump's lineup and tell me it doesn't look like the East Coast mob...Giuliani, The Mooch, Cohen, Mnuchin. No "Midwestern values" there! Now we have not only The Swamp but also The Mob! Except that Scott Pruitt mope from Oklahoma who wants to spend your taxes on his special $45,000 sound proof room because he thinks he's so damn important. I guess the rapidly diminishing EPA needs special protection. These guys are all con artists.
There have, to date, been 23 indictments of people who are in Trump's sphere. There will be more. I'm sick of these people, these elites, who are exactly the types who Trump supporters claimed to want to be rid of. I'm sick of their corruption and their pay to play BS. And before you go and rabbit on about The Clinton Foundation, even YOU have to admit that these Trump hangers-on have taken this to a whole new level of brazenness. They don't even TRY to hide it! They're PROUD of taking us all for a ride (and making us pay the first class fare).
Bill Peckham is right. This "what about" type of "defense" is lazy. I personally prefer the "What if that had been Obama?" game. What if it had been Obama who paid a porn star to keep quiet? What if it had been Obama who got his foreign policy from watching BET? What if it had been Obama who had been elected as a result of an election everyone agreed had been tampered with by the Russians? THE RUSSIANS!!!!!!!
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I didn't say the Clintons did it, just that it is statistically interesting.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/BODIES.php#axzz5FHoRSe7F
I don't understand why paying a porn star to STFU is a problem. Who is the victim? When Clinton lied in the Paula Jones case, it was in an attempt to prevent her from winning a civil judgment, which is in a manner the equivalent of theft. No Democrat was bothered by that, just as no Republican is bothered by Trump paying a sex partner for silence. The bad person here is Daniels for going back on her deal.
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Again, it's back to the Clintons.
To be fair, I did not live here during the Clinton years, so I can't comment on Paula Jones. But it is my understanding that Clinton was impeached, right?
Paying a porn star to STFU before an election is OK with you? You don't care that the President of the United States is a morally corrupt human being? But besides even that, Trump DID lie about it. But if even THAT doesn't matter, and it really doesn't seem to, the investigation as a whole follows the evidence, and that evidence is now pointing to Trump's PERSONAL LAWYER amassing a slush fund of Russian money to use to pay off other women with whom Trump had affairs in return for access to the President.
You have always pointed to pay to play as being particularly heinous. I trust that now that Trump's circle of mobsters have been shown of doing exactly that, you'll be sufficiently outraged.
It is now irrelevant that Daniels wants out of the deal. The problem was that there was such a sordid deal in the first place, probably with multiple women. Can you imagine the moral indignation had Obama acted in this way, cheating on his wife? He would have been crucified by the GOP. You know, the "pro-family" party. The party that claims to have the moral authority. The evangelicals.
But the problem isn't really Trump. It's the voters who don't care, the apologists, the folks who will follow any path this man will carve out, who leave their morals behind and loves this man for being the way he is, for being the PERSON he is. No one expects a President to be a perfect human being, but this man is so morally flawed in so many ways. Does it not bother you that he is absolutely right when he says that he could kill a person in the middle of Fifth Avenue yet people would still follow him? Yet Stormy Daniels is the "bad person" here?
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You don't care that the President of the United States is a morally corrupt human being?
To be honest, if I lived in America my main desire would be for a president who did a good job of being a president. I'd take a morally corrupt good president over a morally pure bad president any day.
Although sadly Trump fails both tests - good luck with that!
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It's the voters who don't care, the apologists, the folks who will follow any path this man will carve out, who leave their morals behind and loves this man for being the way he is
It's an unsolvable problem when one either (a) has a choice of two corrupt candidates, as with the last Presidential election or (b) One has to choose between a corrupt candidate who supports their viewpoint on public policy or a morally pure one who goes against one's values.
For example, if there are a corrupt Democrat and a righteous Republican(*), do you really expect members of the FSA to vote for the Republican?
How would you choose between a candidate who patronized numerous hookers while married who wanted to increase dialysis funding or a morally pure candidate who wanted to cut dialysis to twice a week to save on expenses?
People will not vote against their self-interest.
* - Yeah, I know, many will consider this term an oxymoron
** - Free Stuff Army
Paying a porn star to STFU before an election is OK with you? You don't care that the President of the United States is a morally corrupt human being?
Yes, because his sexual morality has no impact on how he will represent my interest, and he was not trying to defraud anyone in a litigation by perjuring himself.
Hardly anyone thinks Kennedy was a bad president because of his affairs.
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Yes Clinton was impeached, not convicted. However when he left office the Republican leadership that lead the Impeachment charge were mostly out of office. The one exception is Dennis Hasert later convicted of fraud in the paying off a a former student he molested while coaching high school wrestling. Compare this to the current presiDUNCE allowIng members of his administration to joke about Joh McCain dying of cancer. McCains grandfather a carrier admiral during WWII died leading his carrier group after refusing to go back stateside for treatment. His father a sub commander in WWII was CincPac when t he senator was flying in Vietnam Nam. compare this to trump who developed bone spurs to avoid military service. He plays golf frequently despite never having the bone spurs treated. My admiration for the 3 generations of McCains is boundless, the only person in American History that would like The disgrace we have for president is U S Grant who until now was the worst president in American history.
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Kennedy wasn't a particularly good president. We've canonized him because he was assassinated.
A morally corrupt candidate would not want to spend more on dialysis services because he is morally corrupt and would so rather see money going to himself and his cronies. Trump is morally corrupt in more ways than one, and not only that, he surrounds himself with equally morally corrupt people. I could overlook his sexual sordidness if he could manage to keep his promise about surrounding himself with "all the best people", but he can't even do that. An Administration is more than just the President, yet he can't get out of his own way.
"Free Stuff Army" is a lazy term and doesn't take into account those who really need services, like dialysis. Using this sort of terminology doesn't advance your point.
You are right in saying that people will not vote against their self-interest, but the problem is in defining just what your personal "self-interest" is. If you're only self interest is being able to have all the guns you want, then I suppose you're right in saying that it doesn't matter just who Trump has screwed (in all senses of the word). In fact, there are probably loads of men who think, "Well done!"
You keep saying that Hillary Clinton is corrupt, but there have never been any charges brought against her, despite the shedload of hours she spent testifying before Congress. Just because you keep calling her corrupt doesn't mean she actually is. But we had evidence of Trump's corruption even before he was nominated, so there's that...
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A morally corrupt candidate would not want to spend more on dialysis services because he is morally corrupt and would so rather see money going to himself and his cronies.
You are confusing "morally corrupt" with"financially corrupt". I have known several people in the "intercourse related" industries (prostitutes, pornstars, pimps, porn film makers, etc.) Most of them would give you the shirt off their back. Two of them were two of the most generous people I know. If either of them became president, America would become an amazingly nice place to live (although you would have to put up with a lot of very liberal laws concerning the sex industry).
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What I personally find offensive about the free stuff army is two things, it ignores the tremendous number of people who receive goverment handout from farm states and farm subsidies to southern states benefitting from subsides power to south western states sucking up subsides water. Finally I Medicare pays for my dialysis I had private insurance but at 33 months I had to switch to Medicare. Plus I paid taxes to Social Security and Medicare for 46 years with the understanding that benefits would be paid. In New York every one thinks that the average welfare recipients are inner city residents the reality is the average recipient is a women with children living in upstate New York whose husband does not pay child support. People complain about other people receiving aid from the goverment but raise hell when their benefits are cut, remember the next time you are on a interstate That tax dollars built them and you are riding free.
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You are confusing "morally corrupt" with"financially corrupt". I have known several people in the "intercourse related" industries (prostitutes, pornstars, pimps, porn film makers, etc.) Most of them would give you the shirt off their back. Two of them were two of the most generous people I know. If either of them became president, America would become an amazingly nice place to live (although you would have to put up with a lot of very liberal laws concerning the sex industry.
No, I'm not confusing the two. Someone who is "financially corrupt" leaves victims in his wake. Someone who is "financially corrupt" is also, by definition, a thief or a tax dodger or a slum lord, and that in and of itself makes him "morally corrupt". "Morals" has a wider meaning than just one that is sexual. It encompasses behaviour and values. Besides, Trump lied about the whole thing, about the affair itself, the deal itself, the existence of the payment itself, the source of the payment itself...everything. He promised he'd never lie to us, that he'd never let us down. He lied to us, and he let us down by doing so.
It's just all so icky. With social media and all, we are just getting TMI. If he had other redeeming factors, perhaps I wouldn't be so bothered, but I can't help it. I can usually find SOMEthing good about a person. George Bush was not the brightest spark in the presidential toolbox, and he let himself be led into tragedy, but I never thought he was a bad human being. I have yet to find something about Trump and the people who surround him that I can trust or feel good about, despite the distractions. He was going to surround himself by all of the best people. Name me one.
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And thank you, Michael Murphy, for pointing out who the FSA really is. :thumbup;
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I don't consider Medicare paid dialysis as "free stuff", since I paid a Medicare tax (a/k/a insurance premium) my entire working life, though it was only in recent years that it was broken apart from social security on the statement to remove the earnings cap on the Medicare premium.
As to Trump - The way he screwed people over in business tells the story of character. He would contract for an expensive service and, when it was complete, would make up some excuse like "your worker picked his nose on the job" and basically say "Sign this release accepting 80% of the agreed amount or spend a few years fighting my attorneys at your expense.". Definitely a dangerous character to do business with.
Plus I paid taxes to Social Security and Medicare for 46 years with the understanding that benefits would be paid.
I do not consider you a soldier in the FSA.
Kennedy wasn't a particularly good president. We've canonized him because he was assassinated.
And because he won the Cuban missile showdown. Though, one can argue the bay of pigs gave Cuba the incentive to seek out Soviet nukes.
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Just to say that another word for free stuff from public entities is investment. If giving someone a phone saves ten dollars in social services for every dollar spent that's a good investment.
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The basic foundation of the US communication policy from the 1930`s till today has been subsidized local service. From 1930`s till the 1990`s the long distance network provided a tremendous amount of money to pay the cost of the local network. Since then the focus has been on subsidized cell phone service since it is substantial cheaper then landlines. The cell phone networks paid enormous amounts of money for radio bandwidth in addition to that money they are required to provide free or subsidized phones to the poor. It is just the cost of doing business for them and is factored in to the rate base. The biggest single cost to the cell phone industry has been the absorbed cost of a subsidized new phone every couple of years for subscribers. The cost of the subsidized cell phones has been the difference between American cell rates and the rest of the world where you buy your phone from the manufacturer at full price.
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required to provide free or subsidized phones to the poor.
Just another transfer payment to the FSA. My wife worked in a hospital and sees may patients with two phones on their belt - the Obama phone we are forced to pay for and the fancier one they buy.
Just to say that another word for free stuff from public entities is investment.
Whenever a politician or Democrat starts using the term "investment" it's time to hold on to your wallet.
The biggest single cost to the cell phone industry has been the absorbed cost of a subsidized new phone every couple of years for subscribers.
T-Mobile is getting away from that model. They no longer offer "free" cell phones in return for a contract, but offer interest-free financing as part of the cell bill.
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Phone service for the poor is not new, in fact in most large cities police phone boxes and fire alarms have been eliminated since subsidized phone service for the poor. As a side benefit crank calls are more easily traced saving substantial money for urban areas for over 70 years this has been the policy for every American administration.
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The biggest single cost to the cell phone industry has been the absorbed cost of a subsidized new phone every couple of years for subscribers. The cost of the subsidized cell phones has been the difference between American cell rates and the rest of the world where you buy your phone from the manufacturer at full price.
I just get a sim card and a 'phone separately. Can you not do that in America? It works out a hell of a lot cheaper. (about half the price).
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Anything phone related is much more complicated and much more expensive than it is in Europe. It is such a con.
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I may have to rename this thread The Trump/Russia/SA/Emirates connection thread
https://nyti.ms/2IV6EpU (https://nyti.ms/2IV6EpU) Trump Jr. and Other Aides Met With Gulf Emissary Offering Help to Win Election
The President's TV lawyer (http://thehill.com/homenews/media/387547-trump-expresses-need-for-better-tv-lawyers-to-combat-mueller-probe-report), Giuliani, has been saying lately there is nothing unusual about accepting help, no matter the source; I'm sure the denials in this first reporting will be slowly walked back over the coming weeks and months, as have been EVERY denial by the Trump campaign and Trump administration re: the russia meeting.
BTW it is not ordinary and usual to accept or encourage election help from foreign sources.
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The bottom line, accessing files on a computer that you are not an authorized user is a felony. The Russian breaking to the democratic servers was a felony. Participating in the release of those files also a felony. If the Trump campaign helped in any way a felony. The release of those emails was the result of a felonious actions. Now as the Mueller investigation is obviously beginning to identify the players in this felony the Presidunce and his minion Giuliani are becoming more panicked in their attacks on every body in an attempt to deflect the investigation. Fake news I think not, just a fake Presidunce.
Sp mod Cas
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Nothing to see here
https://qz.com/1297543/paul-manafort-tried-to-hide-from-the-feds-using-encrypted-whatsapp-but-he-forgot-about-icloud/
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Hillary using a Server for government emails that was Personal, and erasing 30,000 emails after you have been told not to erase them is a Felony.
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Hillary using a Server for government emails that was Personal, and erasing 30,000 emails after you have been told not to erase them is a Felony.
Using her personal server is not a felony. Also:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/oct/09/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-deleted-33000-em/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/oct/09/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-deleted-33000-em/)
Where did you hear this felony claptrap? It just ain't so.
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A previous Secretary of State used a private server for the 4 years he served. But I guess that don’t count. The real culprit was the tech support who allowed a out side mail server on their network not once but twice. The other over looked fact is the State Department Mail Servers we’re comprised by Russian intelligence there is no evidence that Hillaries server was hacked.
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Scott Pruitt's existence is a felony. ::)
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Scott Pruitt's existence is a felony.
I'd call it a crime against humanity.
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Assuming he's human.
Maybe he thinks he has some super powers since he seems to need a $45,000 super secure phone box. ::)
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What I find amusing is the only competent and honest person in the Trump administration is Robert Mueller.
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So the G7 is in session. It used to be the G8 but Russia was thrown out. Trump turns up and immediately starts arguing that Russia should be allowed back in. Do we need any more proof that he is behoven to Putin?
Oh, and is it time we revived the phrase "Unamerican activities"?
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Who knows, it may become the G6.
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OMG, since when does an American president slam the Canadians while cozying up to the Russians and the North Koreans?
Trump is giving Russia exactly what Putin has been dreaming of...the breakup of the Western Alliance. To think that it will be an American president that destroys democracy is just harrowing and horrific.
It is extraordinary and baffling. But now I understand why Paul Manafort was Trump's campaign manager. I mean, talk about felonies! Manafort has been indicted for witness tampering and may well be facing prison time.
Can you imagine the outrage if Obama's campaign manager had been indicted for witness tampering?????? But no, it was all about Hillary's emails. ::)
Thank goodness Trump has surrounded himself with all the best people, right?
Something is very wrong here when we have a president who is musing about pardoning himself.
But you know what? I don't blame Trump. We all knew who he was from the beginning. I blame Congress. They are the ultimate enablers.
Even Abraham Lincoln saw that if we were to cease to exist as a free nation, it would be because "we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men we will live forever or die by suicide".
We've handed Trump the weaponry, and we're letting him play with it.
#sad
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I don't think I've ever been so depressed (and disgusted). And I've been depressed before.
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Trump does not control the G7, the people who can allow the USSR (it’s what Putin is trying to recreate) back in is if the members of the G7 allow him back after trumps performance at this meeting my guess he couldn’t get anything passed.
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At least six people close to Trump almost certainly knew about offers from Russians of dirt on Clinton
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/06/18/at-least-six-people-close-to-trump-almost-certainly-knew-about-offers-from-russians-of-dirt-on-clinton/
So we are confident the following people were offered or told about information allegedly incriminating Clinton:
* George Papadopoulos
* Roger Stone
* Michael Caputo
* Donald Trump Jr.
* Jared Kushner
* Paul Manafort
It is possible that the following other people knew about or received similar offers, too:
* Stephen Miller
* Carter Page
* J.D. Gordon (if Page was offered dirt)
* Donald Trump
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Again, it's all about money and the push for permission to build a Trump building in Moscow. The connection is financial and is evidence of how the Trump family is using the presidency to plunder America.
There is a reason the RNC changed their platform in favor of Russia before the election.
How do you say "Drain the Swamp!" in Russian?
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How do you say "Drain the Swamp!" in Russian?
Слейте болото! Продать землю (Вашингтон) до Путина
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OK, now, how about "I've got all the best words!"
"Believe me!"
"This country is a disaster."
"When you're a star, they'll let you do anything!"
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So our president's administration is doing everything it can to break with our allies and still is trying to setup summits with Russia. If this is the goal Bolton said he was looking forward to discussing "how to improve Russia-U.S. relations and find areas where we can agree and make progress together." why are we not doing the same with our own allies?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/06/27/bolton-due-in-moscow-to-talk-possible-us-russia-summit.amp.html
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I really don't understand the lure of authoritarianism we are seeing in this country.
I really don't understand why we are insulting CANADA and cozying up to the despots like those in Russian, N. Korea, Hungary and other countries who are also willingly throwing away their democracies (Turkey).
I thought Americans liked small government and freedom and liberty for all.
Why are we distancing ourselves from our allies? Why are we aiming to pull out of NATO? Why are we welcoming Russia and Putin into our governance?
These are not rhetorical questions. I am truly baffled why those who are claiming to be the "most American" are so willing to repeal our democracy and replace it with authoritarianism. Does anyone know the answer(s)?
My fear is that we are unclear as to who the enemy is when we fight to protect the United States from enemies both foreign and domestic. We have lost sight of Putin as our foreign enemy and have instead focused on defining "the other side" as the domestic enemy. The horror is that it was Russia that did this to us; they've warped our vision, and all of our intelligence services confirm this. Why does our Administration allow this to happen?
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Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies CLOSER! That's why!
:waving;
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Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies CLOSER! That's why!
:waving;
So, meaningful discussion about the nature of democracy and our distancing ourselves from what our Founding Fathers had in mind has been diminished to a cliche?
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You are entitled to your opinion. If that is what you want to think.
IMO, Trump knows exactly what he is doing.
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Yes, he does. He does what Putin wants.
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Putin must love Sanctions......
:waiting;
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Sanctions by and large were set by congress and the law instructs the Presidunce to create them.
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Putin must love Sanctions......
:waiting;
Yes, he will tolerate them for a greater purpose. What Putin really wants is the destruction of NATO and the EU, and that is what Trump is giving him. Trump has offered France and Germany favorable trade deals if they would agree to leave the European Union. Why do you think Trump would do this, Rerun?
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/29/politics/trump-europe-nato-tension/index.html
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Sanctions are just the price of doing business. With oil going above $70 barrel it is a price the Russians can afford.
At this point there is no question the Trump campaign collaborated (by any reasonable definition of the word) with Russia to harm the Clinton campaign and directly support the Trump campaign. Legally this is a conspiracy to commit election fraud, and I imagine a long list of other felonies.
The question for Jean, Rerun and other supporters of the President: Does it matter? Does it matter to you if it is shown that the Trump campaign's actions fit the legal definition of a criminal conspiracy?
There are many other concerns with this administration - graft, corruption, policy incoherence, and general malpractice - but putting those aside. Does it matter to you if it shown that Trump's campaign conspired with the Russians?
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If any of you want a fact based timeline on this very topic, have a read of "The Plot to Destroy Democracy: How Putin and His Spies Are Undermining America and Dismantling the West" by Malcolm Nance, who is a career US intelligence officer for 35 years. Because, you see, it's not just the US that Putin wants to obliterate.
The horror of it is this Congress' participation in the continuation of this crime. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-is-seizing-on-a-gop-trip-to-moscow-to-carefully-craft-its-narrative-ahead-of-the-trump-putin-summit/ar-AAzDzed
The other horror of it is that Trump supporters really don't care. I thought they were supposed to be all "America First" and patriotic. I don't understand why the Trump administration is so enamoured by Putin. PLEASE, can someone explain it all to me? What is it about Putin that makes Trump slobber so much?
And btw, there SHOULD NOT be "direct contact between lawmakers in Washington and Moscow"! Why don't our members of Congress stand up for the American people? Why are they just rolling over for the Russians?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/republican-lawmakers-come-to-moscow-raising-hopes-there-of-us-russia-thaw/2018/07/03/1213130c-7e94-11e8-b0ef-fffcabeff946_story.html?utm_term=.b562c3339bd4
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I think they've all been compromised and/or bought off.
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Bought off????? Are you talking about me??? Seriously folks, I am a die hard Republican ( now) Mainly it is because the Liberals are crazy people. Shall we talk about Maxine Waters? Or is that not true. ( Either). On one other post, rerun and I used a couple of derogotory names for the liberal party and a couple of you were very offended, yet, in the same post DJT was referred to as tRump and presidunce and NOBoDY said a word. Nobody. So one of the reasons we are so loyal to Trump is that the party that lost is for ever throwing vague truths that he is dumb or he is crooked. Well, they never mention that he works for FREE and he works over 20 hours a day and he is working like a maniac to MAGA. This trend of F___ Trump on T-shirts of little children. Seriously?? Is that how you teach your children to hate? Nowhere have I seen any one make a statement that Donald Trump is crooked, except of course the die hard Liberals. When it is proven, which has not happened yet, maybe I will think otherwise. I do remember meeting you Bill at a meeting at DaVita conference and I was totally in awe of you. It is people like you that give us a reason to continue with our lives rather than commit suicide because of CKD. That has nothing to do with anything, I just wanted to let you know.
In the meantime, so many people and that includes some in this group are vicious and hating and it is hard to see any one talked about like that, never mind our President who won the election fair and square. So, you asked and I answered, IMHO. Do as you will.
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Actually I think Putin won and breaking into your opponents computer systems is nether fair nor square.
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Jean, there is mounting evidence that Trump did NOT win the election "fair and square"; that's the whole point behind the work of the US intelligence agencies and the Mueller investigation.
Donald Trump is not working for free. He said he would, but we have no proof that he is giving his salary to charity as he claimed he would do. And why do we have no proof of this? Because he will not make public his tax returns. And there is no proof that he is working like a maniac. He is either on the golf course, or he is having campaign rallies in front of his base. He does NOT work 20 hours a day as his daily calendar has shown for months.
The Trump family is making a lot of money off of the fact that he is President. This is another issue that is under investigation. The Trump family has been granted an unprecedented number of Chinese patents in an ungodly short amount of time.
But the question posed was not the one you think you've answered. The question is why this Administration and the Trump-led Congress is so eager to be friendly with Putin. While I wholeheartedly agree that talks between enemies should be facilitated when possible, I don't understand why being friendly with Putin has to mean that we have to be antagonistic to our allies. Actually, I DO understand it; as I've said, Putin's dream all along has been to break up NATO and the Western alliance, and this is what is being accomplished with the help of the President of the United States. So, the question to you, Jean, is why do you think the US has switched its alliance from Western Europe and NATO to the Kremlin? It's a simple question, and I'm asking for your opinion on the topic.
As for Maxine Waters, why are her actions so much crazier than Trump's on the campaign trail?
And don't forget that it was Trump that started the whole birther movement, claiming that he had his "people" in Hawaii investigating Obama's birth certificate. Mr. Trump can't speak about any opposition figure without giving him/her some sarcastic and nasty nickname. So for any Trump supporter to whinge about people calling Trump names is a bit rich.
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Amen, MM.
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Nowhere have I seen any one make a statement that Donald Trump is crooked, except of course the die hard Liberals. ...
Is Joe Scarborough a die hard liberal? https://youtu.be/1LrlNx5w49E (https://youtu.be/1LrlNx5w49E)
I do remember meeting you Bill at a meeting at DaVita conference and I was totally in awe of you. It is people like you that give us a reason to continue with our lives rather than commit suicide because of CKD. That has nothing to do with anything, I just wanted to let you know.
I was at a DaVita conference? :o lol Thanks Jean when was it? I had lunch with George Harper and his better half yesterday - he inspired me in the '90s by telling his story of putting his full size FMC machine and RO in his RV. Keep paying it forward :beer1;
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Quote from: Jean on July 05, 2018, 10:04:47 PM
Nowhere have I seen any one make a statement that Donald Trump is crooked, except of course the die hard Liberals. ...
Is Joe Scarborough a die hard liberal? https://youtu.be/1LrlNx5w49E
And herein lies the really hard question. Those who say they are die-hard Republicans, do you simply refuse to accept that the current *president* is lying or do you realize that he is and don't really care? The question came up in this video clip.
This is not a rhetorical question. I am truly trying to understand this on-going support despite the numerous and well-supported reports of the frequent lies and wrong-doing committed by the occupant of the White House.
Aleta
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When is this going to be over? It is a waste of tax payer money. I'm "Listening" to the book "Killing the Deep State." Wow, interesting.
I think it will come down to the assassination of Trump. Heartbreaking! As much as I didn't like Obama I knew it would only be 8 years. I wished no harm to him or his family. Not the FBI or the CIA. They will get Trump one way or the other. The left is desperate to have their own way. Open borders, more taxes to pay other countries off, more rights to left wing wackos.
This Russia, Russia, Russia thing needs to end. The Russia collusion starts and ends with the Clintons'.
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This Russia, Russia, Russia thing needs to end. The Russia collusion starts and ends with the Clintons'.
Can you give any credible evidence of that? If you are willing to make those kinds of claims, you have to be able to back them up with evidence.
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Actually most of us will wait for Mueller, I don’t want trump dead, being put in prison would make me happy either Mueller or the State of New York may be able to do that. The trump foundation investigation by New York State is as dangerous to the Donald as the Mueller investigation is.
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The whole Russia, Russia, Russia thing would end sooner if Trump would just answer Mueller's questions AND if he'd also release his tax returns like he promised. We need to make sure that Trump and his family are not personally profiting from a rigged election.
To be fair, though, we have to remember just what the issue is. It is entirely possible that Trump's campaign team and transition team DID work with the Russians without Trump's knowledge. It is imperative that we find out just who gave assistance to Putin to affect our election process. If we don't, every single election in the future will be seen as invalid by half of all Americans.
Once we find out who the traitors are, they need to be jailed. I believe that we do still have the death penalty for those convicted of treason.
Again, we have to understand what it is that Putin wants. He wants the destruction of the Western alliance, and Trump is providing it. I still want to know WHY he, and so many of you, are so enamoured of Putin. I've asked several times, and no one seems to be able to explain. Why is Trump breaking the alliance?
Anyone?
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MM treason is constitutionally defined and at this time I'm not sure it is possible to commit treason since we aren't officially at war - possible exception North Korea. Russia is an adversary, not an official enemy. A conspiracy to commit various felonies - foremost election fraud - wouldn't be treason. Weaponized rat p*ckery, yes. Illegal, yes. Treason, no.
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Well well.....
First, Bill I think it was 2009. Surely you can remember that far back?? LOL, jk. I dont know that it was a conference, it could have been one of the meetings Lori was working on at the time.
Well, MM, DJT is working for free. He said so and Sarah said so, that is enough for me. Where is the proof that he does nothing??? The white house staffers have publicly stated he works 20 hours a day. Somehow I would think they know more than say, you!!! Where is your proof that he is not? Do you read his daily calendar??
Where do you get that DJT is antagonist to our allies. I dont see that and I do not think that the US has switched alliances.
Maxine Watters is an absolute maniac. She is urging people to physically gang up on and beat up on any one who who is not a liberal and I heard that with my own ears. Now, if that is not inciting riots, I dont know what is.
She needs to be arrested, jailed and removed from office..... NOW!!!!
MM, if you have proof of all the things you state, please be kind enough to share it, so we can all see. Please keep in mind that DJT was and is a very very rich man and did not need to take on the Presidency to make more money. And, once again, he gives his salary to different charities. So, technically I suppose he doesnt work for free because he has more than enough money already. He did not HAvE to run for President, he did it to save this country.
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Read Killing the Deep State by Jerome R. Corsi Ph.D. Either you will be enlightened or think it is all Rubbish.
I don't care if you read every newspaper or magazine everyday. You can't prove anything. It is what we are mentally fed. Unless you were there.... you really don't know. What we see on video on TV is proven to be heavily edited. One channel will have hundreds of protesters with signs chanting the next channel will have the same people throwing fire bottles into businesses and overturning police cars. It is pick and choose. Then one will finally get called out on misreporting and we move on to the next day.
So, you can be widely speculative, or jump in and pick your tribe. I keep hearing Americans have become "Tribal". I can see this.
I listen to the Radio, and watch the news.... all stations. I listen to books.
Back to this Russia thing.....? Let's be done already.
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Well well.....
First, Bill I think it was 2009. Surely you can remember that far back?? LOL, jk. I dont know that it was a conference, it could have been one of the meetings Lori was working on at the time.
I am constantly surprised by what I have forgotten. It is getting worse and worse.
Well, MM, DJT is working for free. He said so and Sarah said so, that is enough for me. Where is the proof that he does nothing??? The white house staffers have publicly stated he works 20 hours a day. Somehow I would think they know more than say, you!!! Where is your proof that he is not? Do you read his daily calendar??
Where do you get that DJT is antagonist to our allies. I dont see that and I do not think that the US has switched alliances.
Is tweeting, talking on the phone and watching cable news working?
Maxine Watters is an absolute maniac. She is urging people to physically gang up on and beat up on any one who who is not a liberal and I heard that with my own ears. Now, if that is not inciting riots, I dont know what is.
She needs to be arrested, jailed and removed from office..... NOW!!!!
I did not know inciting people to not inviting Alan Dershowitz to a dinner party is a crime worthy of arrest. I've seen Waters call for harassment of Cabinet officials for them to be called out and "pushed back on", shunned by polite society, etc. Where is this quote you saw? Please share a link.
At this point pointing to statements from this administration as evidence requires a level of credulity I do not possess. One wishes Trump's schedule was shared with the same detail as previous presidents ... make public as well visitor logs and phone calls/conversations with foreign leaders, tax returns ... it's a long list but generally return to previous standards of transparency.
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Read Killing the Deep State by Jerome R. Corsi Ph.D. Either you will be enlightened or think it is all Rubbish.
I don't care if you read every newspaper or magazine everyday. You can't prove anything. It is what we are mentally fed. Unless you were there.... you really don't know. What we see on video on TV is proven to be heavily edited. One channel will have hundreds of protesters with signs chanting the next channel will have the same people throwing fire bottles into businesses and overturning police cars. It is pick and choose. Then one will finally get called out on misreporting and we move on to the next day.
So, you can be widely speculative, or jump in and pick your tribe. I keep hearing Americans have become "Tribal". I can see this.
I listen to the Radio, and watch the news.... all stations. I listen to books.
Back to this Russia thing.....? Let's be done already.
Come on Infowars is a source now? I thought liberals were suppose to start the revolution on the 4th? What happened to that? Infowars is a silly place that is not meant to be taken seriously.
Just read Trump's twitter feed, interviews and rally speeches - he can't get through a speech or interview without lying (as in he knows what he is saying is untrue or wildly inaccurate (he continually repeats false information after being corrected - that is, by definition, lying)) about his own policies and/or our lived history. Go to the most recent speech in MT He falsely claimed to be the first Republican presidential candidate to win Wisconsin, he's been corrected before; it would not be possible to have deported "1,000s"of MS-13 members there aren't that many here to begin with; we are not building the wall right now; most democrats support military spending; wages have been rising for years; his tax cuts were not the biggest in history (not even top 10 - SAD!); as of today no one has signed up for association healthcare plans; nearly all Keystone XL jobs are temporary; our trade deficit with China is 336 billion; our federal deficit is higher than ever (nominally) and growing.
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If i can find Maxine's screaming fit, I will post it. Had I thought you did not see it, I would have posted it then.
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Bill Wrote: I thought liberals were suppose to start the revolution on the 4th? What happened to that?
I have not a clue.... What did happen to that?
What are... Infowars? Did I post something about Infowars? Is it a cable show? Let me know and I will watch it.
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Never mind. I'm tired. Post deleted.
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Rerun,
https://www.infowars.com/
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Bill Wrote: I thought liberals were suppose to start the revolution on the 4th? What happened to that?
Go time came and went, but nobody showed up.
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MM - Thank you!
:thumbup;
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Where do you get that DJT is antagonist to our allies. I dont see that and I do not think that the US has switched alliances.
This explains it pretty well.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/09/opinions/trump-undermines-nato-boosts-putin-dantonio/index.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/10/europeans-brace-for-worst-from-trump-at-stormy-nato-summit
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/08/nato-atlantic-alliance-survive-trump-analysis
Trump will be at the NATO summit, and we will just have to see if it becomes as shambolic as his meeting with the G-7. Keep an eye on it, and see what you think. Pay attention to the reaction of our allies and see if you think they are antagonized. What will be really interesting is the fact that Trump will be meeting with Putin just days later.
Remember that it was Paul Manafort that fought to change the RNC platform to remove the language antagonistic to Russia regarding their invasion of Ukraine. And now Manafort is in jail.
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https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/25/politics/maxine-waters-trump-officials/index.html
Here the sweetie is, in all her screaming glory.
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We should ALL be that angry over this policy of taking babies away from their parents and putting them in baby jails. No one connected to this racist and inhumane AND un-Christian policy should be able to show their faces in public. Americans are right in calling for confrontation of these policy witches. It's a disgrace, and if these politicians are so damn proud of themselves, they have nothing to fear.
This is nothing compared to your usual Trump rally. (I'd post some videos, but my video player is temporarily defunct.!)
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Here we go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9YPYRaeTW0
Americans in all of their screaming glory!
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I am not saying the people who behave like that are right. Altho, as long as they only jack their jaws, who cares. Maxine on the other hand exactly wants the Dems to attack any one they even THINK might be a Republican. No matter how you twist words, you can not make this out to anything but what it was. A call for violence. Any one who has a republican symbol or anything like that are now fair game.
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https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/25/politics/maxine-waters-trump-officials/index.html
Here the sweetie is, in all her screaming glory.
Calling what Waters was doing in this video clip reminds me of the children who went home and told their parents that I "yelled" at them. I have never yelled at a student, but I have been stern and serious. Waters is no more screaming than I yelled at students.
Is she speaking forcefully into a microphone in an outdoor venue? Yes. Have you ever been in that kind of venue where you had to make yourself heard even with amplification? I have. In performing outside weddings, I always advised the couple that in order for the audience to hear me, I would need to sound very loud to them. Speaking to large groups can be quite tricky.
Have you ever noticed how candidates on the campaign trail often lose their voices toward the end of the campaign? It comes from having to project one's voice frequently when speaking in public and especially outside.
Screaming is a very different action. At no time during this video clip did Waters scream.
That you called it screaming says more about you than it does about her.
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How divinely sweet you are WTW. There goes the chance of any one having a good time with this thread. Liberals always turn nasty when they know they are wrong. Thanks for proving it.
Oh and BTW, yes I have had all of those wonderful opportunities you are talking about and oddly enough we have a sound system here that will blow your socks off at a very low sound, so we have to be careful how loud we speak. Maybe the volume could be turned off or the speaker should learn how to hold a mic. At any rate, the woman is screamingand you know it.
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This is just another example of a republican double standard, it’s okay not to serve some one who is gay but it is a outrage to deny service to a republican. The Presidunce can insult and demean reporters or opponents by name or handicap but the Republicans become annoyed when it’s done to them. The lack of civility is a reaction to the last 10 years of non civility from the right.
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this has NOTHING to do with the Presidunce as you like to call him and Everything to do with Maxine the witch!!! The Liberals would like us all to believe they are white as snow and the only guilty person on the planet is Trump and his supporters. Now that IMHO is dumb!! Not you Michael, just your attitude.
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My attitude about the Presidunce based on his history I was dating a girl whose father owned a small company. He unfortunately became involved in a trump project the Taj Mahal after several missed payments he decided to stop work on the project, trump called and said he personally would guarentee the payments her father trusted trump went back to work finished the job trump went bankrupt and refused to honor his personal word and the father went bankrupt, lost company and his house. Crooked Hilary I think not low life scum sucking trump, that I believe.
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Liberals are the party of Tolerance and Diversity. Only when things are going their way.
Go Figure.
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He unfortunately became involved in a trump project the Taj Mahal after several missed payments he decided to stop work on the project, trump called and said he personally would guarentee the payments her father trusted trump went back to work finished the job
Trump is also famous for preceding the final payment on the job with "We will reduce the total price of the job by 20%. If you sign to agree, we will pay immediately, otherwise, we will pay only when ordered to do so by a court and then only if the holding company for this job is not bankrupt."
And then there is the entire so-called "Trump University".
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Clinton University is a one man SHOW. Just Bill going to speak at 400K a crack and in Russia no less.
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Clinton University is a one man SHOW. Just Bill going to speak at 400K a crack and in Russia no less.
And this in some way makes it all right for Trump to have defrauded students who enrolled in his bogus "university."
While I do not think Bill Clinton should have been garnering huge speaking fees from foreign countries while his wife was Secretary of State, he was not deliberately defrauding unwilling students. And tRump settled all three lawsuits after repeatedly saying that he would never settle.
Rather than throwing out a red herring with your complaint about Clinton, let's keep to the subject of the connection between tRump and Russia.
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How divinely sweet you are WTW. There goes the chance of any one having a good time with this thread. Liberals always turn nasty when they know they are wrong. Thanks for proving it.
Oh and BTW, yes I have had all of those wonderful opportunities you are talking about and oddly enough we have a sound system here that will blow your socks off at a very low sound, so we have to be careful how loud we speak. Maybe the volume could be turned off or the speaker should learn how to hold a mic. At any rate, the woman is screamingand you know it.
I'm not sure I understand your message, Jean. Were you just having a "good time" with this thread and somehow I impinged on that??
I was not trying to be nasty. Did you take it that way? I guess I should have said that the way "one" reacts to Waters' delivery says more about "one."
I count myself in this kind of assessment. WE are ALL affected by our general attitudes and biases. They way WE interpret things often says more about US than it does about the subject matter. Psychologists call this projection.
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Rather than throwing out a red herring with your complaint about Clinton, let's keep to the subject of the connection between tRump and Russia.
I'm really interested to see if Trump will stand up for fair treatment of the US by Russia when he meets with Putin? Will he do anything to stop Russia from interfering with our elections and hacking US citizens?
For example at NATO:
At the NATO summit, Trump is standing up for fair treatment for America
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/07/11/at-nato-summit-trump-is-standing-up-for-fair-treatment-for-america.html
For example Russian hacking of US citizens to influence our elections
Intel report says Putin ordered campaign to influence US election
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/06/trump-to-be-briefed-on-russia-hacking-report-as-unclassified-version-set-for-release.html
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It looks like Russia used the same tactics to influence brexit. Clearly the Russians want to destabilize Europe and break apart the Atlantic alliance which has held Russia in check for almost 70 years.
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The latest news on this front:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44825345 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44825345)
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Too bad Bernie got screwed.
None of the charges allege Trump advisers colluded with Russia to interfere with the presidential campaign.
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Rerun, let's say that there is never any evidence found that any Trump campaign member actually colluded with Russian spies to turn the election toward Trump.
Given that assumption, do you think that Russian intelligence, with orders from Putin, acted to interfere with the election?
If so (and do please remember that there is bi-partisan agreement that this is true and has been proven by US Intelligence services), why do you think that Trump is giving Putin a pass? All Trump seems to care about if whether or not HE is found guilty. He doesn't seem to care that our country was attacked. He has not made any moves to punish Putin.
Trump needs to cancel the meeting with Putin next week. He should say very publically that in light of these most recent indictments (of which Trump was advised before he left for Europe), he will not be going to Moscow. It is truly disgusting that the President of the United States would willingly continue a foreign tour to an adversarial country that has attacked our country.
But then again, candidate Trump told the Russians to release Hillary's emails. The very next day, they did.
There are more indictments/charges coming.
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Flashback Friday!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7F7eRM1oiU
If you can believe what you hear? Obama tried to interfere in Israel's election so Netanyahu would not be reelected.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPRUiZaDuo4
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I don't care about past Israeli elections.
But back to the matter at hand. I'll ask you again. Do you believe that Russia's Military Intelligence interfered with the 2016 General Election?
Do you agree with Congress that Russian military spies stole information from the DNC and used it to undermine the candidacy of one candidate so that another would benefit?
Why do you think that Mitch McConnell was so insistent that the information about Russian hacking shouldn't be shared before the 2016 General Election with the American people?
Why do you think that President Trump and the GOP Congress have not worked to make the upcoming midterms more secure?
These are simple and direct questions. Please don't give in to the temptation of answering with links to irrelevant youtube vids. I am honestly interested in your opinions.
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I dont think any one can deny Trumps intelligence. As I see it, he is trying to make Russia a friendly country rather than an enemy. It is certainly harder than it looks.
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Ill deny it personally I think he’s a high grade moron.
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As o Clinton speaking fees, Regan, Bush,Bush 2 have all collected large speaking fees how Clinton is the only you call crooked.
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Michael, I understand that you cant stand Trump and with your explanation of why, that is understandable. However, I was talking about his intelligence level and nothing else.
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MM I'm not sure what Russian Operatives did but I don't believe it had ANY affects on the 2016 Election. I know nothing I read on Facebook changed my mind. If anything, the stunt Comey pulled at the end may have pushed some people towards Trump.
I would think Putin would WANT Old Hilary to win. They already had deals going.
As can be seen above Obama said Russia has never messed with us before and they won't in the future. We keep indicting Russians..... Now what. Do we go get them? Do they come turn themselves in? :waiting;
Both Bushes give speeches....for money... but not while Barbara or Laura are SECRETARY of STATE.
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What's the explanation for Trump's press conference if you support the president? Could someone with an awareness of their guilt Act any more guilty?
Short of trump just plainly stating that Russia has him by the balls and he has to do pretty much anything he can keep them happy, I don't know how Trump can convey with more clarity that he is guilty
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Rerun, Trump's performance today in Helsinki should answer your questions.
Putin was specifically asked if he has compromising information on Trump, and he didn't deny it.
Trump has thrown the entire US intelligence community, and our security, under the bus.
Even on Fox News, Trump is being skewered.
Today will live in infamy.
#sad#Helsinki#treachery
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tRump is both totally corrupt and seriously delusional. And he is selling the USA down the river.
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Seriously now, I sat thru the whole thing and got literally nothing. With the two men speaking and the interpreter interpreting, I could not hear anything clearly.Neither could my Husband. But all of you Trump haters did. I think that is amazing. But, also a bummer. I believe if you have not heard the facts, then you can't assume things. What do the rest of you think??
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Today’s Putin Trump disgraceful show proves trump is a quisling, comrade trump is a Russian agent. He even had to wait for Putin show up. He clearly is Putin’s butt boy.
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Seriously now, I sat thru the whole thing and got literally nothing. With the two men speaking and the interpreter interpreting, I could not hear anything clearly.Neither could my Husband. But all of you Trump haters did. I think that is amazing. But, also a bummer. I believe if you have not heard the facts, then you can't assume things. What do the rest of you think??
If anyone watching in real time didn't hear clearly (which is entirely understandable given the interpreter speaking over Trump and Putin), there are transcripts of the press conference online.
http://time.com/5339848/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-summit-transcript
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My questions are Trump's questions. If this was happening in 2016 why wasn't oBaMa on it? Could be he thought Hillary would win so why bring it up. Then Trump won and ....
Where are the DNC servers? Legitimate Question. FBI went to DNC asked for the servers and DNC said "no" so FBI left. Why didn't they breakdown the door and take the servers? Why?
Why would Trump trust our TOP FBI agents when they hate him, love Hillary, covered for Hillary's email tamperings.
I agree getting along with Russia is a good thing. I thought giving Cuba a chance was a good thing until they blasted the ears of our dignitaries.
Indictments are "Allegations" We don't like the word Allegations when I use it. These 12 Russians "allegedly" hacked the DNC.
If Trump is guilty for colluding with the Russians then arrest him. Do it already!
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Strangely you can’t arrest trump until the house impeach him and the senate convicts him. This is why Ford pardoned Nixon to avoid having a ex president in jail. The sad fact it is becoming apparent that the same tactics used in 2016 against the US also were use against England during brexit vote. Additionally there was a enormous push in France prior to the last election. It failed because it was started a few days before the election and France bans any press coverage 3 days prior to the elections. Finally any attempt to remove trump without absolute proof would be a bad thing to our system of democracy. While I clearly think he and his entire family conspired with Russia to fix the election thinking is not proof. Mueller is doing a painstaking investigation but even the Nixon fiasco took several years to unwind.
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An indictment is so much more than a mere allegation. A grand jury reviews evidence presented by the prosecution, and if they think there is enough credible evidence to secure a conviction, then there is an indictment.
As for the rest of Rerun's points, I addressed them in a separate post.
BTW, if Trump is not convicted/impeached, that does not mean that his family is not in peril. It is entirely possible that he is playing along with Russia in order to keep his kids out of harm's way. Perhaps they are the ones who are in trouble with the Russians.
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The unknown factor is the state of New York, there is a state investigation covering trump foundation, tax fraud, and possibly money laundering. I think trump feels he can pardon his way out of this if Mueller gets too close. The Presidunce has no power to pardon state crimes. However any evidence Mueller uncovers could be used by the state. This is a slow process involving careful investigation and finding evidence to back up witness testimony. Maybe Putin will allow trump to move to Russia since he seems to be in love with there system.
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If Russia messed with the 2016 election.... did it change the outcome? If yes, how?
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Well, among many other factors, there is this:
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/mb4ezy/top-voting-machine-vendor-admits-it-installed-remote-access-software-on-systems-sold-to-states
Top Voting Machine Vendor Admits It Installed Remote-Access Software on Systems Sold to States
Remote-access software and modems on election equipment 'is the worst decision for security short of leaving ballot boxes on a Moscow street corner.'
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My questions are Trump's questions. If this was happening in 2016 why wasn't oBaMa on it? Could be he thought Hillary would win so why bring it up. Then Trump won and ....
MM went through this but just imagine alternatives - any alternative - any other action by anyone else involved would have damaged in someway Trump's campaign. To me it is like the movie Groundhog Day, Bill Murray tries every combination of moves to achieve any goal - rob the bank, learn piano - it's like Trump lived a million lives and found the one single way he could become president. No one leaks from the FBI about the Trump investigation, Comey even chooses to talk about the Clinton investigation while never considering talking about the Trump campaign, Obama never just decides this guy is truly awful I have to go public. If Trump had at any moment been a better person and thus a better candidate people may have decided to go public, it was only because he was such a transparently awful choice that no one thought ordinary vetting was needed. People made decisions, weighed options Comey, Obama, Lynch, et al but the fault for this mess is clear. The fault for this mess lies squarely on voters who were willing to forgo ordinary vetting.
It was not Obama or the media's job to vet the republican candidate it was the responsibility of the party. The organization called the Republican Party. What happened? Iis squarely their fault but at this point they're still pretending they did a heck of a job.
Where are the DNC servers? Legitimate Question. FBI went to DNC asked for the servers and DNC said "no" so FBI left. Why didn't they breakdown the door and take the servers? Why?
Um because they were the victim of a crime not the perpetrators? Right? Difference between did to and done to. Benghazi was done to us. The democrats did not do the hack they were hacked. Cohen on the other hand is suspected of breaking the law ... for years. For lying and stealing and generally being a crook who has a law degree. Flynn is accused of lying to the FBI and a number of other violations of laws. It all comes back to the difference between victim and perpetrator.
Why would Trump trust our TOP FBI agents when they hate him, love Hillary, covered for Hillary's email tamperings.
Because they are professionals. Because if you looked at the private texts and emails of anyone at that moment in time you would have seen far worse. Would your posts to IHD disqualify you from serving on a jury? If not why not? We all have political beliefs are you seriously suggesting that administration needs people who are not just generally the same party as the President but they also have to be of the same faction of the president's party. That is a bad idea.
Here is my question. What happens if he is guilty? Serious question. IF after Trump said "Russia if you're listening" it can be proven that
- russian hackers targeted Clinton email servers and were able to steal inhouse analytics about Clinton voters
- Trump campaign received stolen inhouse voter info
- Trump campaign changed strategies in the last days of the campaign based on what was learned in the stolen documents.
Because I think this is where we are, at a minimum. I'm horrified. You?
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Despite the Presidunce claim of a big win the election was decided by 80,000 votes. A small percentage of the total votes the Russian hacks from the dnc servers made many Bernie supporters switch to third party candidates. There is no doubt that Russian interference effected the election. It also appears that after trump asked the Russians to find Hillary’s emails the Russians made a attempt to hack into servers that they thought would have the emails. My god what more do you want trumps kgb card.
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So, in the mid-terms.... of Republicans win Russia hacked in again. If Democrats win... it was won fair and square. OK I got you!
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Wow, Trump sold out American interests to a dictator and sided with him against American intelligence agencies. Then covered up by saying the word not was missed, but he never the less praised Putin as if he was his prom date. All this and you deflect this on to the Democrats. The intelligence agencies will be keeping a close watch on the 2018 midterms. If they detect Russian attempts to influence the election I am sure they will announce this as soon as they detect it. Meanwhile trump supporters who blame anyone but trump are basically Putin stooges.
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Both Obama and Hillary were going behind American's BACKS to get in Putin's pockets. So, I guess if we don't know about it..... it's OK?? Obama... "Tell Blad I can be more flexible when I'm reelected"... Bhahahahaha
Trump is right.... It is a good thing to be "not at war" with Russia. I have to say... I was disappointed Trump gave in to pressure and changed his wording. He should have stuck to HIS truth.
Hell.... I don't trust the FBI after the crap they have pulled. I don't trust the CIA after what they did to JFK. It is not a crime to not trust the Government.... as you well know.
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Hell.... I don't trust the FBI after the crap they have pulled. I don't trust the CIA after what they did to JFK. It is not a crime to not trust the Government.... as you well know.
Are you also a Black Lives Matter supporter? They seem to not trust the police.
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Again, all Trump has to do is release his tax returns because right now it just looks bad, and Trump should be the first to know that the optics are important.
You can talk about Hillary and Obama all you want to try to draw a false equivalency, but neither of them are the current President of the United States who looks to be beholden to Putin and/or other Russian oligarchs. Again, release those tax returns so that we can be sure there is no blackmail involved.
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No, iolaire, I think all lives matter from conception on. My nephew is State Patrol, so I know what they go through everyday. There are dirty cops, I know that. There are dirty FBI and CIA also. The good FBI will stand up and tell the truth at some point.
I'm for Trump giving his Tax returns. Like they are going to say And I gave a million dollars to Putin so he could buy some Facebook ads. :beer1;
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If Trump were the liar that so many of you think he is, he would lie on his tax return too. So, why bother.
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Exactly, Jean! Just one more thing for them to hammer him on.
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So, in the mid-terms.... of Republicans win Russia hacked in again. If Democrats win... it was won fair and square. OK I got you!
You see, that's the point. If Russia WANTS the pro-Trump party to win, then that's what will happen. If Democrats win, then Pro-Trump people will say the elections were hacked, and THEY MAY BE RIGHT! THAT is what Putin wants, for our election process and results to be undermined by general distrust! What would happen if NO ONE in this country trusted the result of ANY election, anymore? It would be chaos and the further breakdown of our democracy, and THAT is Putin's goal.
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If Trump were the liar that so many of you think he is, he would lie on his tax return too. So, why bother.
We would "bother" because tax evasion or any kind of "lying" on one's tax return is a federal crime and grounds for indictment.
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One last thing to think about.
There has been this notion flying about for well over a year now that there must have been Americans involved in helping the Russians. And sure enough, in the indictment against the Russian spy Maria Butina who used her contacts within the NRA (the NRA!!!!???), there are mentions of a US Person 1 and a US Person 2.
So, who are the Americans who aided and abetted the Russians? Might they be someone in (gasp) Congress? NRA leadership?
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This is beginning to remind me of the watergate debacle when pro Nixon supporters defended Nixon to the bitter end. High Crimes And Misdemeanors would include helping the Russians. Plus the Moron has promised the dictator he would ship Americans to Russia for criminal proceedings. Mother of God the trump republicans are dangerously close to convictable treason.
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There had to some sort of Trump/Russia connection for Trump to even consider letting Russia interrogate US officials. Even the set of voting senators are against it:
Senate 98-0 passes resolution opposing Vladimir Putin's proposal to interrogate U.S. officials including McFaul & Browder
https://boingboing.net/2018/07/19/senate-98-0-passes-resolution.html
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Now NYT reports: Trump Knew Putin Ordered Election Meddling Before Inauguration (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/world/europe/trump-intelligence-russian-election-meddling-.html) which is a stunning thing to read in the NYT.
The source for the NYT story was willing to say that we had intel that confirmed Putin's personal involvement and the paper was allowed to publish without push back so that has to mean the source is burned.
This story has taken a dark turn. Previously reported news https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/24/europe/dead-russians/index.html
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Uh oh. Dan Coats' days are numbered.
Will Vlad be here in the US during the midterm election campaigns? "That's gonna be special."
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It turns out Cohen has recordings of Trump talking to him about paying off Stormy Daniiels 2 weeks before the election. A possible campaign finance law violation. The shoes are dropping faster and faster.
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It turns out Cohen has recordings of Trump talking to him about paying off Stormy Daniiels 2 weeks before the election. A possible campaign finance law violation. The shoes are dropping faster and faster.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/20/us/politics/michael-cohen-trump-tape.html
Rudolph W. Giuliani, Mr. Trump’s personal lawyer, confirmed in a telephone conversation on Friday that Mr. Trump had discussed the payments with Mr. Cohen on the tape but said the payment was ultimately never made. He said the recording was less than two minutes and demonstrated that the president had done nothing wrong.
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From www.Avaaz.org
Oops it's getting uncomfortable..
Dear friends,It’s now shockingly clear that Donald Trump is Putin’s poodle. (https://avaazimages.avaaz.org/trump-putin.png)But we need the world to understand why, before it’s too late…
Trump's businesses went bankrupt (https://money.cnn.com/2015/08/31/news/companies/donald-trump-bankruptcy/) so many times in the 1990s that many legitimate banks wouldn’t lend (https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-trump-deutsche-bank/trump-lawyer-denies-deutsche-bank-got-subpoena-on-trump-accounts-idUKKBN1DZ13M) to him anymore. He turned to Russian oligarchs (https://newrepublic.com/article/143586/trumps-russian-laundromat-trump-tower-luxury-high-rises-dirty-money-international-crime-syndicate) -- Putin’s ruling clique -- to bankroll his projects, and launder their dirty money for them. This was, and continues to be, a huge part of his business. He’s a Russian money launderer.
"We don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia."
Donald Trump JR, 2014 (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/eric-trump-donald-golf-courses-russia-funding-golf-writer-interview-2014-james-dodson-a7722806.html)This isn’t speculation or hyperbole. There's mountains of evidence. Trump’s former election campaign Chairman, Paul Manafort, has deep ties to Russian oligarchs, and is currently in jail awaiting trial on, among other charges, money laundering!
Here are 5 more top facts everyone should know about Trump's long collusion with Russian organised criminals -- forward this email and share it on Facebook -- we all deserve to know the truth:
Share on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/dialog/share?app_id=50824532548&display=popup&href=https://secure.avaaz.org/campaign/en/shocking_truth_about_trump/?bLOZWfb&v=108578&cl=14781603973&_checksum=6ad03430d440db6d3c73e0523857c8ceb340c22810cdd9a77fa2d17dc4ae33a3&redirect_uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffacebook.com)
1[/font]Trump’s main financial backer (https://www.ft.com/trumptoronto) for the Trump Tower Toronto was a Russian-Canadian billionaire who got the money by selling a massive steel mill in Ukraine for nearly a billion dollars. $100 million of that money was paid to a Kremlin-backed fixer, likely as a bribe to VERY high Russian officials. The Chairman of the Bank who financed the deal? Vladimir Putin.
2[/font]Trump bought his home in Palm Beach, Florida for $41 million. A few years later, with no real increase in the value -- he sold it for $95 million -- the most expensive home in America at the time! Why? A major Russian oligarch bought it (https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/why-did-a-russian-pay-95m-to-buy-trumps-palm-beach-mansion/) -- we don’t know yet why he effectively ‘gave’ Trump $54 million. But it’s classic money laundering practice.
3[/font]Trump's real estate deals were often fuelled by Russian money, typically passed through shady shell companies (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/thomasfrank/secret-money-how-trump-made-millions-selling-condos-to). 77% of Trump Soho apartments were bought with cash by such mysterious companies. At least 13 people withlinks to Russian oligarchs or mobsters (https://newrepublic.com/article/143586/trumps-russian-laundromat-trump-tower-luxury-high-rises-dirty-money-international-crime-syndicate) lived in Trump properties, including one of Russia's top mobsters. One even ran a high-stakes illegal gambling ring (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/controversial-residents-trump-tower/story?id=52577191) in the apartment right below Trump's!
"Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets"
Donald Trump JR, 2008 (http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-jr-said-money-pouring-in-from-russia-2018-2?r=UK&IR=T)
4[/font]Trump’s financial broker and “Senior Advisor” was a Russian convicted felon named Felix Sater (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/31/felix-sater-trump-russia-investigation), widely known as a mafia figure who once stabbed someone in the face with a broken margarita glass, requiring over 100 stitches. Sater helped set up shell companies, and arranged funding for Trump’s projects, including plans for Trump Tower Moscow. He’s also part of Putin’s inner circle. Here’s one email he wrote to Trump’s lawyer Michael Cohen in November, 2015:
"Michael I arranged for Ivanka to sit in Putins private chair at his desk and office in the Kremlin. I will get Putin on this program and we will get Donald elected. We both know no one else knows how to pull this off without stupidity or greed getting in the way. I know how to play it and we will get this done. Buddy our boy can become President of the USA and we can engineer it. I will get all of Putins team to buy in on this, I will."
New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/28/us/politics/trump-tower-putin-felix-sater.html), August 27, 2017
5[/font]Trump’s other main business is casinos -- which are classic money laundering vehicles. One of his casinos was 100 times found in violation of federal rules (https://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/22/politics/trump-taj-mahal/index.html)protecting against money laundering, and paid the largest fine (https://newrepublic.com/article/143586/trumps-russian-laundromat-trump-tower-luxury-high-rises-dirty-money-international-crime-syndicate)ever levied against a casino for having “willfully violated” anti-money laundering rules. Trump has a legal obligation to do “due diligence” for all his businesses to prevent laundering. His senior executive’s comment on this was “Donald doesn’t do diligence (https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-21/trump-russia-and-those-shadowy-sater-deals-at-bayrock)”.
The Big PicturePutin is a former KGB officer who has used chemical weapons, assassinated (https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/09/a-brief-history-of-attempted-russian-assassinations-by-poison/)people in other countries, invaded (https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2016/11/20/international-criminal-court-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-is-a-crime-not-a-civil-war/#1cf1ce247ddb) the Ukraine, occupied (https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ukraine/2016-04-18/why-putin-took-crimea) Crimea, shot down (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/24/mh17-downed-by-russian-military-missile-system-say-investigators) the MH17 (http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/x-apple-data-detectors://7) airliner with almost 300 passengers on board, aided a murderous regime in Syria, condoned the beating and torture (https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/05/26/russia-anti-gay-purge-chechnya) of gays, stolen (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/02/20/is-vladimir-putin-hiding-a-200-billion-fortune-and-if-so-does-it-matter/?utm_term=.0b545a6a3767&noredirect=on) up to $200 billion from his own people, hacked (https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/18/russia-election-hacking-trump-putin-698087) foreign elections and launched (https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/05/28/world/nato-adopt-hybrid-warfare-response-trigger-special-rapporteur/#.W1CRuthKimk) what NATO calls the largest hybrid warfare campaign in history to undermine western liberal democracies. He is also widely believed to have ordered the murder (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11799424) of Russian journalists and critics, and bombed (http://www.businessinsider.com/how-the-1999-russian-apartment-bombings-led-to-putins-rise-to-power-2018-3?r=UK&IR=T) hundreds of Russian civilians to fake a terrorist attack and justify a war in Chechnya.
Yet when asked at their press conference (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44852812) if Trump had any criticism of Putin, he had none, and ridiculed US law enforcement for investigating Russian attacks on US democracy!Why? Trump has been working for Putin's corrupt inner circle for almost 20 years. And it's that corrupt circle that promises to make him rich for the next 20 (he's refused, in violation of all ethics, to divest from his businesses as President).
Trump *may* be a Russian intelligence asset, he *may* have colluded with Putin to sabotage the US election. But what is clear is that he is a corrupt Russian money launderer, in the pocket of a KGB dictator. The whole world needs to know this, and rally together to prevent the damage this corrupt alliance threatens. Share this email with everyone…
Share on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/dialog/share?app_id=50824532548&display=popup&href=https://secure.avaaz.org/campaign/en/shocking_truth_about_trump/?bLOZWfb&v=108578&cl=14781603973&_checksum=6ad03430d440db6d3c73e0523857c8ceb340c22810cdd9a77fa2d17dc4ae33a3&redirect_uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffacebook.com)With hope,
Ricken, Emma, Rewan, Joseph, Morgan, Spyro, Flora and the whole Avaaz team
PS -- scroll down for a TON of credible, trustworthy, fact-checked sources for everything in this email. Avaaz isn't one of those absurd troll publications that slings lies for profit -- we're a nonprofit, and every time we make an error anywhere, we publish the correction on our accuracy page (https://www.avaaz.org/en/commitment_to_accuracy/), linked from the front of our website.
PPS -- if Trump the 'organized criminal money launderer' sounds like a stretch to you, consider it just the tip of the iceberg of Trump's known corruption: - His 'charitable foundation' is likely to be shut down for multiple examples of fraud (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-foundation-new-york-governor-andrew-cuomo-investigation-tax-finance-campaign-violations-a8455241.html).
- Trump 'University' scammed (http://time.com/4101290/what-the-legal-battle-over-trump-university-reveals-about-its-founder/) legions of vulnerable people out of their money.
- He had an affair with a pornstar and paid her (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44143960) to keep quiet -- she says she was also threatened (http://time.com/5243126/stormy-daniels-donald-trump-threat-sketch/) with physical violence.
- His ex-wife attested in court documents that he brutally raped (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/24/documenting-trumps-abuse-of-women) her while tearing out her hair after he didn't like the hair replacement doctor she recommended.
- He bragged, on tape, about sexually assaulting (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/07/donald-trump-leaked-recording-women) multiple women.
- Hundreds of people hired by Trump say he simply decided not to pay them (https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/)for their work -- including dishwashers, painters and waiters, some of whom were making minimum wage.
- He has been sued, and forced to pay out settlements (https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/01/donald-trump-lawsuits-legal-battles/84995854/), over a hundred times.
[/t][/t][/t][/t][/t][/t][/t][/t][/t]Trump is not a devil -- he's a human being, and like all people he has positive qualities and legitimate views. But anyone who denies that he is deeply corrupt, isn't looking at the facts. To understand Trump, and protect our world from him, we need to understand his corruption. MORE INFORMATION Trump’s Russian Laundromat (The New Republic)
https://newrepublic.com/article/143586/trumps-russian-laundromat-trump-tower-luxury-high-rises-dirty-money-international-crime-syndicate (https://newrepublic.com/article/143586/trumps-russian-laundromat-trump-tower-luxury-high-rises-dirty-money-international-crime-syndicate)
Everything We Know About Russia and President Trump (Committee to Investigate Russia)
https://investigaterussia.org/timelines/everything-we-know-about-russia-and-president-trump (https://investigaterussia.org/timelines/everything-we-know-about-russia-and-president-trump)
Secret Money: How Trump Made Millions Selling Condos To Unknown Buyers (Buzzfeed News)
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/thomasfrank/secret-money-how-trump-made-millions-selling-condos-to (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/thomasfrank/secret-money-how-trump-made-millions-selling-condos-to)
Trump’s Russian connections (Financial Times)
https://ig.ft.com/sites/trumps-russian-connections/ (https://ig.ft.com/sites/trumps-russian-connections/)
Dirty money: Trump and the Kazakh connection (Financial Times)
https://www.ft.com/content/33285dfa-9231-11e6-8df8-d3778b55a923 (https://www.ft.com/content/33285dfa-9231-11e6-8df8-d3778b55a923)
Trump's oldest son said a decade ago that a lot of the family's assets came from Russia (Business Insider)
http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-jr-said-money-pouring-in-from-russia-2018-2 (http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-jr-said-money-pouring-in-from-russia-2018-2)
Sales of Trump properties suggestive of money-laundering - researcher (Reuters)
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-trump-russia-fusion/sales-of-trump-properties-suggestive-of-money-laundering-researcher-idUKKBN1F8058 (https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-trump-russia-fusion/sales-of-trump-properties-suggestive-of-money-laundering-researcher-idUKKBN1F8058)
Tower of secrets: the Russian money behind a Donald Trump skyscraper (Financial Times)
https://www.ft.com/trumptoronto (https://www.ft.com/trumptoronto)
Trump Tower Toronto Was 'Investment Scheme And Conspiracy': Lawsuit (Huffington Post)
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/11/07/trump-tower-toronto-lawsuit_n_12849150.html?guccounter=1 (https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/11/07/trump-tower-toronto-lawsuit_n_12849150.html?guccounter=1)
If Trump Is Laundering Russian Money, Here’s How It Works (Wired)
https://www.wired.com/story/if-trump-is-laundering-russian-money-heres-how-it-works/ (https://www.wired.com/story/if-trump-is-laundering-russian-money-heres-how-it-works/)
Trump's casino was a money laundering concern shortly after it opened (CNN)
https://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/22/politics/trump-taj-mahal/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/22/politics/trump-taj-mahal/index.html)
Donald Trump and the mansion that no one wanted. Then came a Russian fertilizer king (Miami Herald)
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article135187364.html (https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article135187364.html)
Everything you want to know about Donald Trump's bankruptcies (CNN)
https://money.cnn.com/2015/08/31/news/companies/donald-trump-bankruptcy/ (https://money.cnn.com/2015/08/31/news/companies/donald-trump-bankruptcy/)
Canada's highest court upholds ruling that Donald Trump did mislead investors (The Independent)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-lawsuit-canada-court-approves-legal-case-against-us-president-a7623566.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-lawsuit-canada-court-approves-legal-case-against-us-president-a7623566.html)
Russian elite invested nearly $100 million in Trump buildings (Reuters)
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-trump-property/ (https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-trump-property/)
Why did a Russian pay $95M to buy Trump’s Palm Beach mansion? (The Seattle Times)
https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/why-did-a-russian-pay-95m-to-buy-trumps-palm-beach-mansion/ (https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/why-did-a-russian-pay-95m-to-buy-trumps-palm-beach-mansion/)
The Russia investigation and Donald Trump: a timeline from on-the-record sources (updated) (Politifact)
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2018/jul/16/russia-investigation-donald-trump-timeline-updated/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2018/jul/16/russia-investigation-donald-trump-timeline-updated/)
Here are 10 critics of Vladimir Putin who died violently or in suspicious ways (Washington Post)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/03/23/here-are-ten-critics-of-vladimir-putin-who-died-violently-or-in-suspicious-ways/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8507f77dfcb1 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/03/23/here-are-ten-critics-of-vladimir-putin-who-died-violently-or-in-suspicious-ways/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8507f77dfcb1)
A Brief History of Attempted Russian Assassinations by Poison (Foreign Policy)
https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/09/a-brief-history-of-attempted-russian-assassinations-by-poison/ (https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/09/a-brief-history-of-attempted-russian-assassinations-by-poison/)
International Criminal Court: Russia's Invasion Of Ukraine Is A 'Crime,' Not A Civil War (Forbes)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2016/11/20/international-criminal-court-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-is-a-crime-not-a-civil-war/#1cf1ce247ddb (https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2016/11/20/international-criminal-court-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-is-a-crime-not-a-civil-war/#1cf1ce247ddb)
Donald Trump’s Worst Deal: The President helped build a hotel in Azerbaijan that appears to be a corrupt operation engineered by oligarchs tied to Iran’s Revolutionary Guard (The New Yorker)
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/13/donald-trumps-worst-deal (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/13/donald-trumps-worst-deal)
Trump’s Business of Corruption (The New Yorker)
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/08/21/trumps-business-of-corruption (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/08/21/trumps-business-of-corruption)
Trump lawyer 'paid by Ukraine' to arrange White House talks (BBC)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44215656 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44215656)
After becoming President, Trump has sold millions in real estate in secret deals (Newsweek)
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-real-estate-secret-buyers-777276 (https://www.newsweek.com/trump-real-estate-secret-buyers-777276)
Just What Were Donald Trump's Ties to the Mob? (Politico)
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/donald-trump-2016-mob-organized-crime-213910 (https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/donald-trump-2016-mob-organized-crime-213910)
Russian lawyer from infamous Trump Tower meeting admits to being an informant for the Kremlin: Report (CNBC)
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/27/emails-show-new-ties-between-trump-tower-russian-and-kremlin-nbc.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/27/emails-show-new-ties-between-trump-tower-russian-and-kremlin-nbc.html)
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[/t][/t][/t]
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Edited, colour changed, labled mod Cas
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Casandra, what a absolutely point by point devastating well reasoned post. Thank you I am humbled by your brilliant post.
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Hi MM That's from www.Avaaz.org
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Casandra, what a absolutely point by point devastating well reasoned post. Thank you I am humbled by your brilliant post.
Hello Cassandra, I second what Michael Murphy has already mentioned above and I also thank you a lot for your thorough research and your brilliant post... it says it all ...
Many thanks again from Kristina. :grouphug;
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Wow, thanks Cassandra. I'd bet that Robert Mueller has all of that information now, and more.
I still am uncertain as to why Congress is being so meek about all of this. The real test will be to see if stronger sanctions are put on Russia in light of the 12 indictments. Some Republican Congresspeople are really pushing for stronger sanctions while others, well, not so much.
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With all respect to Cassandra, who I really like and with respect to WTW who said, research,research,research:
Avaaz was founded by two men, named Ricken Patel and Jeremy Heimans. the problem comes a little further and this " black Ops" is founded by George Soros. Now THERE is a nasty man. Research anything this man says and all of it is bad. He wants to separate and segregate America and put most of us into gas ovens. I would be left alone for that, because I am fair haired and REALLY fair skinned. Altho I AM old. In this life, I would never, ever want this man to attain his goals and if you were smart, so would you. Needless to say George SOROS Hates DJT and now you can see why. If it aint there, George will either make it up or make it happen.
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With all respect to Cassandra, who I really like and with respect to WTW who said, research,research,research:
Avaaz was founded by two men, named Ricken Patel and Jeremy Heimans. the problem comes a little further and this " black Ops" is founded by George Soros. Now THERE is a nasty man. Research anything this man says and all of it is bad. He wants to separate and segregate America and put most of us into gas ovens.
Can you point me out to where George Soros says he wants to put people in Gas Ovens on either of the Soros websites or foundations?
https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/
Our Mission
The Open Society Foundations work to build vibrant and tolerant democracies whose governments are accountable and open to the participation of all people
https://www.georgesoros.com/philanthropy/
Open Society Foundations
Open Society was established in 1979 when George Soros decided he had enough money. His great success as a hedge fund manager allowed him to pursue his ambition of establishing open societies in place of authoritarian forms of government. “Open society is based on the recognition that our understanding of the world is inherently imperfect,” Soros said. “What is imperfect can be improved.” He started by supporting scholarships for black students at the University of Cape Town in South Africa and for Eastern European dissidents to study abroad.
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Not at the moment, but I will start looking for his posts. I have read a LOT of them in the past few years.
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I absolutely agree with Jean that, especially these days, we all have a patriotic duty to research, research, research. As part of that, it is again absolutely critical that we look at the source(s) of stories we read because fake news IS out there.
I don't know anything about these avaaz people, but just looking at the links that Cassandra posted, it doesn't look like avaaz made up those stories (many of which I'd already read), rather, they just aggregated them.
Avaaz and/or George Soros is not the story here. The story is the possible conspiracy of Trump/his campaign with Putin's Russia, probably for financial gain. The story is also becoming one of whether or not certain members of Congress may also be involved. The story is also becoming one of obstruction of justice as Trump doubles down on his contempt for Mueller, his investigation and for our intelligence services.
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With all respect to Cassandra, who I really like and with respect to WTW who said, research,research,research:
Avaaz was founded by two men, named Ricken Patel and Jeremy Heimans. the problem comes a little further and this " black Ops" is founded by George Soros. Now THERE is a nasty man.
Of course Jean is right. She's a Republican and Trump supporter. :thumbup; Here's who Ricken Patel is and his connection to Soros. Both are anti-Trump. Gee, wonder why... :rofl;
You can read more about who are Lefties and unAmerican commies at Discover The Networks
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2498
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WHAT? He is a Christian? I'm an atheist, so I clearly should not engage, read or have anything to do with an organisation started by christian people?
Obviously nobody is perfect, but reading through this thread and tonnes of info in the real world, the Trump/Russia connection is scary. And so is the Brexit/Russia connection
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You can't show the beauty of music to a deaf person and you can't show the beauty of art to a blind person. In other words, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.
So I won't argue. If a person is willing to listen, then we have debate.
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You can't show the beauty of music to a deaf person and you can't show the beauty of art to a blind person. In other words, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.
So I won't argue. If a person is willing to listen, then we have debate.
The problem with your "arguments," Rerun, is that you offer up opinions, but little in the way of substance. While others are doing their due diligence in researching the veracity of claims, you seem to fall back on "spin" from known propaganda sources. Having said that, we are all subject to the echo chambers of our bubbles. It just pays to read through information coming from reliable sources to see if it makes sense.
One of the scariest conditions of the "fake news" era we are now living in, is the break down of trust over all in news sources. THAT is a great first step in destabilizing our democracy. The question to ask is: Who benefits politically from that strategy?
Another good question to ask is: Who stands to make money from current policies?
If you follow the money trail, you might discover that this administration is NOT championing the regular people.
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Another "prominent" patriot accepting money from the alleged Russian spy and NRA friend:
Ex-Sheriff David Clarke’s 2015 trip expenses paid by alleged Russian agent’s group
https://fox6now.com/2018/07/17/woman-charged-with-being-covert-russian-agent-had-ties-to-former-sheriff-david-clarke/
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I cannot SEE enough to READ your reams and reams and reams of research. But, BY GOD, I've got my opinion from what I hear and I'm going to say it!! You can show me reams and reams of research that man walked on the moon.... but you can't prove it. All you've got is reams and reams. Reams and reams of science offering Evolution. It changes every few years.
Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. I have FAITH!
If Donald Trump colluded with Russia there would be evidence. If there were evidence he would be impeached. There isn't any evidence.. He said there was no collusion! And I believe him. We are on like page 20 of this thread for God's sake. Reams and Reams of links. Nothing done to Trump except pure hate. I feel sorry for you folks.
Poop stinks - I want to see all your links to prove me wrong on that one! I'm sure MM will try......
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Rerun, there is such a thing as misplaced faith. Sometimes "faith" is merely believing what you want to believe is true.
Do you really think that men didn't walk on the moon?
Yes, poop stinks.
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But, you also need to RESERVE THE RIGHT TO BE WRONG. I do, do YOU?
I believe that Trump did not collude with the Russians. So? We will see.
Any links I do put up people say they are not "valid" Fox isn't valid, Rush isn't valid. And I say to you.... NYT is FAKE NEWS, CNN is FAKE NEWS. So there you have it. A divided Nation.
I do question weather Man walked on the moon. The Space Station is 240 miles up. The Moon is 240,000 miles up. Yes, I question that back in 1969 we had the technology to get to the moon, walk on it, televise it, and get home. I saw it on TV, but what if that was filmed in a studio. Remember, again with Russia, we were in a space race. Bright idea: Let's just film that we go walk on the moon to screw with Russia. ??? Could be.
:waiting;
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Sounds like you're just a very paranoid person who worships idols.
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Now that is a very sad statement if I have ever heard one. Sounds like you are saying, " if you dont agree with me and I cant change your mind, then there is something wrong with you " We are all entitled to our opinions and we have the right to disagree with each other but name calling is NOT acceptable.
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I offer this for anyone who is interested. It analyzes different news sources for reliability/accuracy and left/right bias.
When I consume news that has definite bias, I try to keep that in mind. While I don't totally avoid sources that fall low on reliability, I keep THAT in mind, too.
When listening to news that has a high number of "emotional" hooks, I tend to be VERY WARY, because that is often a way for commentators to manipulate us. We CAN arm ourselves against manipulation if we want to.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-biased-is-your-news-source-you-probably-wont-agree-with-this-chart-2018-02-28 (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-biased-is-your-news-source-you-probably-wont-agree-with-this-chart-2018-02-28)
Aleta
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For those keeping track, Michael Cohen has indicated he has proof that Comrade Trump knew about and approved the Trump Tower Russia meeting. If true collusion is closer to be proven. God this is more fun then Watergate.
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For those keeping track, Michael Cohen has indicated he has proof that Comrade Trump knew.........
This was one of my all time favourite radio news reports, not because of the content but because of the reporter's comment on the subject: The report included the fact that Rudy Giuliani defended POTUS by saying that Michael Cohen was a pathological liar. The reporter ended the peace by pointing out that if Rudy Giuliani is correct, then we can assume that when Michael Cohen worked for Trump then everything he said to defend Trump, was a lie!
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Fourty six years ago my republican father had complete faith in Richard Nixon. Defended him at every turn from attacks from the damn liberals who were persecuting his president. His faith never wavered in the belief that Nixon was innocent. When the recordings were released causing Nixon’s resignation my father was crushed. It took Reagan election to revive his faith.
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Now the Trump team is announcing that collusion is not a crime, yes it is not, but the charges would be conspiracy or accessory .
Both included in the meaning of collusion.
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There was collusion.... by the DNC and Hillary who PAID for the fake dossier about Trump. And nothing was done. This is just like Watergate only the teams have switched.
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Now the Trump team is announcing that collusion is not a crime, yes it is not, but the charges would be conspiracy or accessory .
Both included in the meaning of collusion.
The planned or assisted act, however, must be a crime for conspiracy or accessory to be unlawful.
What crime are they talking about here, other than offending those who wanted a Clinton victory?
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Hacking computers is a absolute crime. It is both a federal crime covered under wire fraud statutes , and a cyber crime. Breaking in to a system obtaining files should get 20 years in a federal prison. Requesting the breakin is both accessory and conspiracy and felonies.
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Well now what can the President do? Manifort has signed a plea deal promising full cooperation in the Russia probe.
The thing I'm wondering - what about the R primaries? Did the coordination with Russia start when Manifort came on? I kinda doubt it. The analytic work and subsequent social media manipulation (the "bots") appears to have started before the first primaries. How are R supporters of one of the other 16 candidates for the nomination going to feel when it comes out the R primaries were Ratf***ed by Roger stone and the Russians?
Back when I had season tickets to the local hockey team this is the point where we would start rattling our keys, suggesting it was time for the other team to start up their bus because they were done. Does Marine One have keys?
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A bad day for the presidunce first he announced that 3000 people did not die Puerto Rico, obviously believed that he is god and raised them from the dead. Dialysis patient could not get treatments for months, no power no water. The only help provided by thr Trump administration was a handful of rolls of paper towels carelessly thrown to a crowd by thr Presidunce. Then Manafort signed a plea agreement to cooperate with the Muellar investigation. Who knows what him and Mike Flynn can testify to about the Russians. All told the Presidunce is in for a rough fall, with a Democratic house and possibly a democratic Senate.
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Let us pray.
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Trump will not win on the Florence relief.
If he fails, then he failed.
If he succeeds, then he is a racist because he failed in PR.
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Simon! Go lay down. Rest. Go take a pee!
If 3,000 people can blame death on Harvey and Maria in Puerto Rico then the 9/11 death toll blamed on Islamic Terrorists can jump from 3,000 to 10,000 for the causes of death from lung cancer.
Puerto Rico is an "Island" and their energy grid was already about dead because they don't take care of things. Trump did the best he could. He dumped billions on that POS Island.
Russia : No evidence of cullision. Manafort is already gong to spend the rest of his life in prison for tax evasion. His bestie Rick Gates had nothing to say. Neither does Manafort.
Dream on Dems............
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A lot could have been done to reduce the casualties on Puerto Rico. First instead of throwing paper towels the moron should have done what was done in New Orleans. Deploy Navy LPH helicopter carriers. Each one has the capability of hosting a 600 bed hospital, and providing helicopter support for the distribution of supplies. Plus with on board electricity and a hospital patients needing Dialysis could have been saved. One army engineering brigade one have gone a long way in restoring the island facilities’
Instead nothing was done. The Presidunce just claimed a wonderful job and did nothing. Finally we don’t know what Manafort, Flynn, Gates, Cohen, and every one else who has pleaded guilty has told Muellar, and we won’t know until after the 2018 election at the soonest. Remember Manafort attended the Trump tower Russian meeting and maybe able to disclose collusion with the Russians. His cooperation with the investigation has already done something wonderful it seems to be the first time the Presidunce has stopped his moronic tweeting.
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He did do that you "orange beak" (where has it been). They sent Cruise Ships and they went to the mainland half empty. People die everyday. If you die from something six months later you can't blame it on the storms. He did more than throw paper towels or toilet paper. Do you believe everything CNN tells you? :urcrazy;
So far Florence has killed 5 people. Lets see if that explodes to 3,000.
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During Katrina 2 large cruise shops were rented by FEMA. The only thing they provided was rooms for the FEMA workers the Army Lt. General sent down to fix the mess that was New Orleans canceled the cruise ships since all they were was glorified hotels for Aid workers. He instead brought Navy LPD which not only housed the Aid workers but each of the 2 held 2 600 bed hospitals,facilities to support and maintain numerous Navy and Coast Guard helicopters used for rescue and delivery of supplies to remote locations. They also could have been used to transport additional electric utility workers from the east coast. 2 cruise ships and paper towels were not a proper response to the needs of the American Citizens of the Island of Puerto Rico.
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One off the major problem in Puerto Rico is the law that requires all shipments arriving by sea to shop in American ships. This adds 60% to the cost of shipping heavy good like electrical grid equipment and generally add cost to every thing on the island. It easy to criticize the Puerto Rican government when a large tax on every thing they do is imposed by the US government to subsidize American ships.
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The infamous Jones Act.
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So far Florence has killed 5 people. Lets see if that explodes to 3,000. [/quote]] (ftp://[quote)
So far Florence has killed 5 people. Lets see if that explodes to 3,000.
[/ftp]
When hurricanes hit the mainland there are huge differences. Already power has been restored to many who lost it because crews from other areas rushed in to fix the problem. Many were able to evacuate to safer areas and will stay there until it is safe to return home. I actually met a "refugee" family from North Carolina in Knoxville, TN, yesterday while I was doing voter registration. An island lacks those advantages. You should well know that without power and clean water, those on dialysis will not survive, even if they aren't killed in the initial devastation. And when hospitals can no longer accommodate those who are injured, they may die, too. Your lack of compassion for those people astounds me.
Rerun, you made a comment regarding CNN. While it has its particular slant, it is more reliable than Fox. Do you watch anything besides Fox?
Aleta
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Your lack of compassion for those people astounds me.
The problem here is not a lack of compassion, but a lack of the ability to see that Trump can possibly do anything wrong. That is the mark of a true despot. All great leaders have their faults, and even their staunchest followers will see some of these faults. But when a leader is a useless despot his/her followers desperately defend everything he/she says, however wrong or stupid or just plain evil that action/speech is, because they are terrified that the slightest criticism will burn their paper hero down.
As an Englishman I have no first hand experience of Trump's rule, it is all filtered through British news media sources. That is why I find the political threads so useful, I get to hear about it first hand from Americans. And to be honest, the most damning of these are not the anti-Trump posts, but the pro-Trump ones. Reading posts by people like Rerun (and others, Rerun is just the most vocal) make him out to be a real monster.
In other words: If you are standing for political office, do not fear your enemies - fear your friends the most.
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I would put the political fallout of tragedies at one end of a continuum of things to care about and towards the other end I would place the Trump/Russia connection.
The Ukraine was the proof of concept. Is the West ready if Russia is ready to proceed? The threat is very real and there is no evident interest from the President. That is something to care about.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/09/the-russian-hacking-of-2016-was-just-a-taste-heres-what-may-lie-ahead/ (https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/09/the-russian-hacking-of-2016-was-just-a-taste-heres-what-may-lie-ahead/)
EDIT
Imagine, Robinson says, if New York City’s trains were to stop working on Election Day because their systems were hit with a cyberattack.
In Washington State we vote by mail, why is it not the norm? The idea that Russia has the unchecked ability to disrupt our infrastructure is hard to comprehend. Forget NY what if there were power failures in only red states during what is assumed to be a blue wave election?? How do you suppose that will turn out?
EDIT x 2
The intelligence community says it was the Russians, Trump say bulls**t. Now what?
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Ah, Bill. Thanks for getting us back on track. :2thumbsup;
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Just follow the money.
Those "best" people that Trump promised us he'd surround himself with are falling like flies.
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Last night during his 60 minutes interview the president said he "relies on them" as a an explanation for why he doesn't care about Russian (and Saudi) assassinations.
In what way does the President rely on Russia?
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The Russians provided intelligence operations for his campaign and the Saudis provided money to bail out his many bankruptcies.
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We will soon find out Muller's long awaited report. But, why wait until after the mid-terms?
1. There is nothing and they don't want to discourage Dems from going to the poles.
2. There is something and they don't want to Take Trump away in handcuffs.
Hmmm which one?
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Or:
3. They are politicians and civil servants (or whatever the American equivalent of a civil servant is). These people take 17 times as long as "normal people" to do something, then an extra 6 months to check it, followed by spending as long as possible looking for a reason never to release the information.
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To paraphrase trump, lock him up! Lock up the whole crooked family. Dinky Donnie’s days are numbered.
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:rofl; :rofl; :rofl;
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Hmmmm
:flower;