The Trump/Russia connection thread

[Rerun]

If Russia messed with the 2016 election.... did it change the outcome?  If yes, how?

[kickingandscreaming]

Well, among many other factors, there is this:

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/mb4ezy/top-voting-machine-vendor-admits-it-installed-remote-access-software-on-systems-sold-to-states

Top Voting Machine Vendor Admits It Installed Remote-Access Software on Systems Sold to States
Remote-access software and modems on election equipment 'is the worst decision for security short of leaving ballot boxes on a Moscow street corner.'

[Bill Peckham]

My questions are Trump's questions.  If this was happening in 2016 why wasn't oBaMa on it?  Could be he thought Hillary would win so why bring it up.  Then Trump won and ....

MM went through this but just imagine alternatives - any alternative - any other action by anyone else involved would have damaged in someway Trump's campaign.  To me it is like the movie Groundhog Day, Bill Murray tries every combination of moves to achieve any goal - rob the bank, learn piano - it's like Trump lived a million lives and found the one single way he could become president. No one leaks from the FBI about the Trump investigation, Comey even chooses to talk about the Clinton investigation while never considering talking about the Trump campaign, Obama never just decides this guy is truly awful I have to go public. If Trump had at any moment been a better person and thus a better candidate people may have decided to go public, it was only because he was such a transparently awful choice that no one thought ordinary vetting was needed. People made decisions, weighed options Comey, Obama, Lynch, et al but the fault for this mess is clear. The fault for this mess lies squarely on voters who were willing to forgo ordinary vetting.

It was not Obama or the media's job to vet the republican candidate it was the responsibility of the party. The organization called the Republican Party. What happened? Iis squarely their fault but at this point they're still pretending they did a heck of a job.

Where are the DNC servers?  Legitimate Question.   FBI went to DNC asked for the servers and DNC said "no" so FBI left.  Why didn't they breakdown the door and take the servers?  Why?

Um because they were the victim of a crime not the perpetrators?  Right? Difference between did to and done to. Benghazi was done to us. The democrats did not do the hack they were hacked. Cohen on the other hand is suspected of breaking the law ... for years. For lying and stealing and generally being a crook who has a law degree. Flynn is accused of lying to the FBI and a number of other violations of laws. It all comes back to the difference between victim and perpetrator.

Why would Trump trust our TOP FBI agents when they hate him, love Hillary, covered for Hillary's email tamperings. 

Because they are professionals. Because if you looked at the private texts and emails of anyone at that moment in time you would have seen far worse. Would your posts to IHD disqualify you from serving on a jury? If not why not? We all have political beliefs are you seriously suggesting that administration needs people who are not just generally the same party as the President but they also have to be of the same faction of the president's party. That is a bad idea.

Here is my question. What happens if he is guilty? Serious question. IF after Trump said "Russia if you're listening" it can be proven that

 

• russian hackers targeted Clinton email servers and were able to steal inhouse analytics about Clinton voters
• Trump campaign received stolen inhouse voter info
• Trump campaign changed strategies in the last days of the campaign based on what was learned in the stolen documents.

Because I think this is where we are, at a minimum. I'm horrified. You?

[Michael Murphy]

Despite the Presidunce claim of a big win the election was decided by 80,000 votes.  A small percentage of the total votes the Russian hacks from the dnc servers made many Bernie supporters switch to third party candidates.  There is no doubt that Russian interference effected the election.  It also appears that after trump asked the Russians to find Hillary’s emails the Russians made a attempt to hack into servers that they thought would have the emails.  My god what more do you want trumps kgb card.

[Rerun]

So, in the mid-terms.... of Republicans win Russia hacked in again.  If Democrats win... it was won fair and square.  OK  I got you!

[Michael Murphy]

Wow,  Trump sold out American interests to a dictator and sided with him against American intelligence agencies. Then covered up by saying the word not was missed, but he never the less praised Putin as if he was his prom date.  All this and you deflect this on to the Democrats.  The intelligence agencies will be keeping a close watch on the 2018 midterms.  If they detect Russian attempts to influence the election I am sure they will announce this as soon as they detect it.  Meanwhile trump supporters who blame anyone but trump are basically Putin stooges.

[Rerun]

Both Obama and Hillary were going behind American's BACKS to get in Putin's pockets.  So, I guess if we don't know about it..... it's OK??  Obama... "Tell Blad I can be more flexible when I'm reelected"...  Bhahahahaha

Trump is right....  It is a good thing to be "not at war" with Russia.   I have to say... I was disappointed Trump gave in to pressure and changed his wording.  He should have stuck to HIS truth.

Hell.... I don't trust the FBI after the crap they have pulled.  I don't trust the CIA after what they did to JFK.   It is not a crime to not trust the Government....  as you well know.

[iolaire]

Hell.... I don't trust the FBI after the crap they have pulled.  I don't trust the CIA after what they did to JFK.   It is not a crime to not trust the Government....  as you well know.

Are you also a Black Lives Matter supporter?  They seem to not trust the police.

[MooseMom]

Again, all Trump has to do is release his tax returns because right now it just looks bad, and Trump should be the first to know that the optics are important.

You can talk about Hillary and Obama all you want to try to draw a false equivalency, but neither of them are the current President of the United States who looks to be beholden to Putin and/or other Russian oligarchs.  Again, release those tax returns so that we can be sure there is no blackmail involved.

[Rerun]

No, iolaire, I think all lives matter  from conception on.  My nephew is State Patrol, so I know what they go through everyday.  There are dirty cops, I know that.  There are dirty FBI and CIA also.  The good FBI will stand up and tell the truth at some point. 

I'm for Trump giving his Tax returns.  Like they are going to say And I gave a million dollars to Putin so he could buy some Facebook ads.   

[Jean]

If Trump were the liar that so many of you think he is, he would lie on his tax return too. So, why bother.

[Rerun]

Exactly, Jean!  Just one more thing for them to hammer him on. 

[MooseMom]

So, in the mid-terms.... of Republicans win Russia hacked in again.  If Democrats win... it was won fair and square.  OK  I got you!

You see, that's the point.  If Russia WANTS the pro-Trump party to win, then that's what will happen.  If Democrats win, then Pro-Trump people will say the elections were hacked, and THEY MAY BE RIGHT!  THAT is what Putin wants, for our election process and results to be undermined by general distrust!  What would happen if NO ONE in this country trusted the result of ANY election, anymore?  It would be chaos and the further breakdown of our democracy, and THAT is Putin's goal.

[MooseMom]

If Trump were the liar that so many of you think he is, he would lie on his tax return too. So, why bother.

We would "bother" because tax evasion or any kind of "lying" on one's tax return is a federal crime and grounds for indictment.

[MooseMom]

One last thing to think about.

There has been this notion flying about for well over a year now that there must have been Americans involved in helping the Russians.  And sure enough, in the indictment against the Russian spy Maria Butina who used her contacts within the NRA (the NRA!!!!???), there are mentions of a US Person 1 and a US Person 2. 

So, who are the Americans who aided and abetted the Russians?  Might they be someone in (gasp) Congress?  NRA leadership?

[Michael Murphy]

This is beginning to remind me of the watergate debacle when pro Nixon supporters defended Nixon to the bitter end.  High Crimes And Misdemeanors would include helping the Russians.  Plus the Moron has promised the dictator he would ship Americans to Russia for criminal proceedings.   Mother of God the trump republicans are dangerously close to convictable treason.

[iolaire]

There had to some sort of Trump/Russia connection for Trump to even consider letting Russia interrogate US officials. Even the set of voting senators are against it:

Senate 98-0 passes resolution opposing Vladimir Putin's proposal to interrogate U.S. officials including McFaul & Browder
https://boingboing.net/2018/07/19/senate-98-0-passes-resolution.html

[Bill Peckham]

Now NYT reports: Trump Knew Putin Ordered Election Meddling Before Inauguration which is a stunning thing to read in the NYT.


The source for the NYT story was willing to say that we had intel that confirmed Putin's personal involvement and the paper was allowed to publish without push back so that has to mean the source is burned.

This story has taken a dark turn. Previously reported news   https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/24/europe/dead-russians/index.html

[MooseMom]

Uh oh.  Dan Coats' days are numbered.

Will Vlad be here in the US during the midterm election campaigns?  "That's gonna be special."

[Michael Murphy]

It turns out Cohen has recordings of Trump talking to him about paying off Stormy Daniiels 2 weeks before the election. A possible campaign finance law violation.  The shoes are dropping faster and faster.

[iolaire]

It turns out Cohen has recordings of Trump talking to him about paying off Stormy Daniiels 2 weeks before the election. A possible campaign finance law violation.  The shoes are dropping faster and faster.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/20/us/politics/michael-cohen-trump-tape.html
Rudolph W. Giuliani, Mr. Trump’s personal lawyer, confirmed in a telephone conversation on Friday that Mr. Trump had discussed the payments with Mr. Cohen on the tape but said the payment was ultimately never made. He said the recording was less than two minutes and demonstrated that the president had done nothing wrong.

[cassandra]

From www.Avaaz.org


Oops it's getting uncomfortable..



Dear friends,It’s now shockingly clear that Donald Trump is Putin’s poodle. But we need the world to understand why, before it’s too late…
Trump's businesses went bankrupt so many times in the 1990s that many legitimate banks wouldn’t lend to him anymore. He turned to Russian oligarchs -- Putin’s ruling clique -- to bankroll his projects, and launder their dirty money for them. This was, and continues to be, a huge part of his business. He’s a Russian money launderer.

"We don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia."
Donald Trump JR, 2014This isn’t speculation or hyperbole. There's mountains of evidence. Trump’s former election campaign Chairman, Paul Manafort, has deep ties to Russian oligarchs, and is currently in jail awaiting trial on, among other charges, money laundering!

Here are 5 more top facts everyone should know about Trump's long collusion with Russian organised criminals -- forward this email and share it on Facebook -- we all deserve to know the truth:
Share on Facebook
1[/font]Trump’s main financial backer for the Trump Tower Toronto was a Russian-Canadian billionaire who got the money by selling a massive steel mill in Ukraine for nearly a billion dollars. $100 million of that money was paid to a Kremlin-backed fixer, likely as a bribe to VERY high Russian officials. The Chairman of the Bank who financed the deal? Vladimir Putin.

2[/font]Trump bought his home in Palm Beach, Florida for $41 million. A few years later, with no real increase in the value -- he sold it for $95 million -- the most expensive home in America at the time! Why? A major Russian oligarch bought it -- we don’t know yet why he effectively ‘gave’ Trump $54 million. But it’s classic money laundering practice.

3[/font]Trump's real estate deals were often fuelled by Russian money, typically passed through shady shell companies. 77% of Trump Soho apartments were bought with cash by such mysterious companies. At least 13 people withlinks to Russian oligarchs or mobsters lived in Trump properties, including one of Russia's top mobsters. One even ran a high-stakes illegal gambling ring in the apartment right below Trump's!

"Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets"
Donald Trump JR, 2008
4[/font]Trump’s financial broker and “Senior Advisor” was a Russian convicted felon named Felix Sater, widely known as a mafia figure who once stabbed someone in the face with a broken margarita glass, requiring over 100 stitches. Sater helped set up shell companies, and arranged funding for Trump’s projects, including plans for Trump Tower Moscow. He’s also part of Putin’s inner circle. Here’s one email he wrote to Trump’s lawyer Michael Cohen in November, 2015:

"Michael I arranged for Ivanka to sit in Putins private chair at his desk and office in the Kremlin. I will get Putin on this program and we will get Donald elected. We both know no one else knows how to pull this off without stupidity or greed getting in the way. I know how to play it and we will get this done. Buddy our boy can become President of the USA and we can engineer it. I will get all of Putins team to buy in on this, I will."
New York Times, August 27, 2017

5[/font]Trump’s other main business is casinos -- which are classic money laundering vehicles. One of his casinos was 100 times found in violation of federal rulesprotecting against money laundering, and paid the largest fineever levied against a casino for having “willfully violated” anti-money laundering rules. Trump has a legal obligation to do “due diligence” for all his businesses to prevent laundering. His senior executive’s comment on this was “Donald doesn’t do diligence”.

The Big PicturePutin is a former KGB officer who has used chemical weapons, assassinatedpeople in other countries, invaded the Ukraine, occupied Crimea, shot down the MH17 airliner with almost 300 passengers on board, aided a murderous regime in Syria, condoned the beating and torture of gays, stolen up to $200 billion from his own people, hacked foreign elections and launched what NATO calls the largest hybrid warfare campaign in history to undermine western liberal democracies. He is also widely believed to have ordered the murder of Russian journalists and critics, and bombed hundreds of Russian civilians to fake a terrorist attack and justify a war in Chechnya.

Yet when asked at their press conference if Trump had any criticism of Putin, he had none, and ridiculed US law enforcement for investigating Russian attacks on US democracy!Why? Trump has been working for Putin's corrupt inner circle for almost 20 years. And it's that corrupt circle that promises to make him rich for the next 20 (he's refused, in violation of all ethics, to divest from his businesses as President).
Trump *may* be a Russian intelligence asset, he *may* have colluded with Putin to sabotage the US election. But what is clear is that he is a corrupt Russian money launderer, in the pocket of a KGB dictator. The whole world needs to know this, and rally together to prevent the damage this corrupt alliance threatens. Share this email with everyone…
Share on FacebookWith hope,
Ricken, Emma, Rewan, Joseph, Morgan, Spyro, Flora and the whole Avaaz team
PS -- scroll down for a TON of credible, trustworthy, fact-checked sources for everything in this email. Avaaz isn't one of those absurd troll publications that slings lies for profit -- we're a nonprofit, and every time we make an error anywhere, we publish the correction on our accuracy page, linked from the front of our website.
PPS -- if Trump the 'organized criminal money launderer' sounds like a stretch to you, consider it just the tip of the iceberg of Trump's known corruption:

• His 'charitable foundation' is likely to be shut down for multiple examples of fraud.

• Trump 'University' scammed legions of vulnerable people out of their money.

• He had an affair with a pornstar and paid her to keep quiet -- she says she was also threatened with physical violence.

• His ex-wife attested in court documents that he brutally raped her while tearing out her hair after he didn't like the hair replacement doctor she recommended.

• He bragged, on tape, about sexually assaulting multiple women.

• Hundreds of people hired by Trump say he simply decided not to pay them for their work -- including dishwashers, painters and waiters, some of whom were making minimum wage.

• He has been sued, and forced to pay out settlements, over a hundred times.

[/t][/t][/t][/t][/t][/t][/t][/t][/t]Trump is not a devil -- he's a human being, and like all people he has positive qualities and legitimate views. But anyone who denies that he is deeply corrupt, isn't looking at the facts. To understand Trump, and protect our world from him, we need to understand his corruption. MORE INFORMATION Trump’s Russian Laundromat (The New Republic)
https://newrepublic.com/article/143586/trumps-russian-laundromat-trump-tower-luxury-high-rises-dirty-money-international-crime-syndicate

Everything We Know About Russia and President Trump (Committee to Investigate Russia)
https://investigaterussia.org/timelines/everything-we-know-about-russia-and-president-trump

Secret Money: How Trump Made Millions Selling Condos To Unknown Buyers (Buzzfeed News)
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/thomasfrank/secret-money-how-trump-made-millions-selling-condos-to

Trump’s Russian connections (Financial Times)
https://ig.ft.com/sites/trumps-russian-connections/

Dirty money: Trump and the Kazakh connection (Financial Times)
https://www.ft.com/content/33285dfa-9231-11e6-8df8-d3778b55a923

Trump's oldest son said a decade ago that a lot of the family's assets came from Russia (Business Insider)
http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-jr-said-money-pouring-in-from-russia-2018-2

Sales of Trump properties suggestive of money-laundering - researcher (Reuters)
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-trump-russia-fusion/sales-of-trump-properties-suggestive-of-money-laundering-researcher-idUKKBN1F8058

Tower of secrets: the Russian money behind a Donald Trump skyscraper (Financial Times)
https://www.ft.com/trumptoronto

Trump Tower Toronto Was 'Investment Scheme And Conspiracy': Lawsuit (Huffington Post)
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/11/07/trump-tower-toronto-lawsuit_n_12849150.html?guccounter=1

If Trump Is Laundering Russian Money, Here’s How It Works (Wired)
https://www.wired.com/story/if-trump-is-laundering-russian-money-heres-how-it-works/

Trump's casino was a money laundering concern shortly after it opened (CNN)
https://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/22/politics/trump-taj-mahal/index.html

Donald Trump and the mansion that no one wanted. Then came a Russian fertilizer king (Miami Herald)
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article135187364.html

Everything you want to know about Donald Trump's bankruptcies (CNN)
https://money.cnn.com/2015/08/31/news/companies/donald-trump-bankruptcy/

Canada's highest court upholds ruling that Donald Trump did mislead investors (The Independent)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-lawsuit-canada-court-approves-legal-case-against-us-president-a7623566.html

Russian elite invested nearly $100 million in Trump buildings (Reuters)
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-trump-property/

Why did a Russian pay $95M to buy Trump’s Palm Beach mansion? (The Seattle Times)
https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/why-did-a-russian-pay-95m-to-buy-trumps-palm-beach-mansion/

The Russia investigation and Donald Trump: a timeline from on-the-record sources (updated) (Politifact)
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2018/jul/16/russia-investigation-donald-trump-timeline-updated/

Here are 10 critics of Vladimir Putin who died violently or in suspicious ways (Washington Post)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/03/23/here-are-ten-critics-of-vladimir-putin-who-died-violently-or-in-suspicious-ways/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8507f77dfcb1

A Brief History of Attempted Russian Assassinations by Poison (Foreign Policy)
https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/09/a-brief-history-of-attempted-russian-assassinations-by-poison/

International Criminal Court: Russia's Invasion Of Ukraine Is A 'Crime,' Not A Civil War (Forbes)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2016/11/20/international-criminal-court-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-is-a-crime-not-a-civil-war/#1cf1ce247ddb

Donald Trump’s Worst Deal: The President helped build a hotel in Azerbaijan that appears to be a corrupt operation engineered by oligarchs tied to Iran’s Revolutionary Guard (The New Yorker)
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/13/donald-trumps-worst-deal

Trump’s Business of Corruption (The New Yorker)
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/08/21/trumps-business-of-corruption

Trump lawyer 'paid by Ukraine' to arrange White House talks (BBC)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44215656

After becoming President, Trump has sold millions in real estate in secret deals (Newsweek)
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-real-estate-secret-buyers-777276

Just What Were Donald Trump's Ties to the Mob? (Politico)
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/donald-trump-2016-mob-organized-crime-213910

Russian lawyer from infamous Trump Tower meeting admits to being an informant for the Kremlin: Report (CNBC)
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/27/emails-show-new-ties-between-trump-tower-russian-and-kremlin-nbc.html

[/t][/t][/t]
Avaaz is a 47-million-person global campaign network that works to ensure that the views and values of the world's people shape global decision-making. ("Avaaz" means "voice" or "song" in many languages.) Avaaz members live in every nation of the world; our team is spread across 18 countries on 6 continents and operates in 17 languages. Learn about some of Avaaz's biggest campaigns here, or follow us on Facebook or Twitter.
[/font]
You became a member of the Avaaz movement and started receiving these emails when you signed "Join Avaaz!" on 2013-11-02 using the email address sandra.tony46@btinternet.com.
To ensure that Avaaz messages reach your inbox, please add avaaz@avaaz.org to your address book. To change your email address, language settings, or other personal information, contact us, or simply go here to unsubscribe.[/font]To contact Avaaz, please do not reply to this email. Instead, write to us at https://www.avaaz.org/en/contact/?footer or call us at +1-888-922-8229 (US).












Edited, colour changed, labled mod Cas

[Michael Murphy]

Casandra, what a absolutely point by point devastating well reasoned post. Thank you I am humbled by your brilliant post.

[cassandra]

Hi MM That's from www.Avaaz.org

[kristina]

Casandra, what a absolutely point by point devastating well reasoned post. Thank you I am humbled by your brilliant post.

Hello Cassandra, I second what Michael Murphy has already mentioned above and I also thank you a lot for your thorough research and your brilliant post... it says it all ...
Many thanks again from Kristina.