The Trump/Russia connection thread

[kickingandscreaming]

NONE!!!

[Simon Dog]

What indictments have been brought against Hillary Clinton?

The same number than have been brought against Donald Trump.

[MooseMom]

What are they, and which special prosecutor brought them against her?

To be fair, though, I can't recall where Trump himself has been indicted.  I know there have been charges and indictments against several Trump entities, like Trump University.  Of course, that may now change.

How can Paul Manafort have three passports?  Why would Trump risk having a guy like this run his campaign?  I thought he was supposed to drain the swamp.  Why would any one vote for a candidate whose campaign was run by a guy who spent over a million dollars on clothes alone?  What does that say to the Trump voters in the rust belt?

[Simon Dog]

How can Paul Manafort have three passports?

Many countries require you send them your passport to have a visa added.   I was without my passport for a couple of weeks while the Indian consulate had it to add such a sticker.

The US Passport agency will issue an additional passport to persons who travel frequently and are caught in the "my passport is out having a visa added"  trap or, for example, someone with Israel stamps who has business in Saudi Arabia and will be denied entry with such a stamp.   These additional passports are only good for 2 years rather than 10.   There are even situations with very frequent travelers who have been issued more than one second passport.

https://fr.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/passports/apply-for-second-regular-passport/

It is either intentional bias, or incompetence, for the media to mention "three passports" without also mentioning that this is legal.

Why would any one vote for a candidate whose campaign was run by a guy who spent over a million dollars on clothes alone?

That is really not that different from a candidate who demanded travel by private jet to speaking engagements when not a candidate.  Both are elitists who live better than the little people.

[iolaire]

a guy who spent over a million dollars on clothes alone? 

I finally read some analysis of this last night, maybe in the Washington Post.  That spending broke down to "only" $150k/year and people interviewed said it was completely possible to spend that much as a one percenter.  Then they talked about rugs and the consensus was a normal client would not spend that much on rugs unless they were an investment vehicle.  Also some of the Hamptons spending seemed very high for the type of service like landscaping or a $400k pool house.  The $120k for media and home electronics was inline with what could be spent. So basically some of the spending was within expected ranges for someone living an elite lifestyle, others was questionable.

[MooseMom]

I don't recall the media ever saying that having three passports was illegal, but it is certainly one of the reasons that Manafort is considered to be an extreme flight risk, which is exactly what the media explained.

Obviously it is possible for a one-percenter to spend that much money on clothing and on all of the other bells and whistles, but when the money to acquire comes from activities that call for your indictment for CONSPIRACY AGAINST THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, I'm not sure that's what Trump voters define as "draining the swamp".

[Simon Dog]

I don't recall the media ever saying that having three passports was illegal, but it is certainly one of the reasons that Manafort is considered to be an extreme flight risk, which is exactly what the media explained.

If the passports are officially disclosed and known to the government, then they will all be surrendered as part of the standard pre-trial bail/release conditions.   They do not increase flight risk unless they are not surrendered.   The mention of "three passports" without mentioning this is a legitimate practice for such a frequent traveler falls into the category of unflattering innuendo.

What does make him a flight risk is a level of assets that would allow him to live a comfortable life in a non-extradition country without ever having to worry about supporting himself, paying for medical, etc.  This would be an example of the Polansky effect.

[Michael Murphy]

Extra passports are issued for 1 to 4 years based on the digression of the issuing agency.  The other reason is that some countries will deny entry if you have a entry for a country that don’t approve of, the best example is a Israeli visa stamp will keep you out of most middle eastern states.

Fixed bizarre spelling mistake.

[Simon Dog]

Extra passports are issued for 1 to 4 years based on the digression of the issuing agency.

I think it's two years unless the agency digresses from policy 

[Michael Murphy]

What I understand is it issues for one year and issues longer up to a maximum of 4 years on a case by case basis.

[Simon Dog]

What I understand is it issues for one year and issues longer up to a maximum of 4 years on a case by case basis.

The only official site I have been able to find referencing the issue is the US Embassy in France: https://fr.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/passports/apply-for-second-regular-passport/

Second passports are issued at the discretion of the State Department and not for the convenience of the traveler. The validity of a second passport is limited to two years and cannot be extended.

[iolaire]

I read constantly about travel and didn't know about multiple passports. Other than normal and diplomatic or dual citizenship.

[Michael Murphy]

Back in the day, I was traveling a lot overseas. Mostly India, Mexico, and Japan.  The Indian embassy took my passport to issue a visa, mean while I had to make a trip to Japan, I had a second passport issued good for one year. 

[iolaire]

Good to see that the Justice Department is doing their job. The whole Russian influence is a problem regardless of if they prove the Trump connection or instead find that Trump's unskilled team made poor choices when agreeing to meet with all the Russians.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/russian-troll-farm-13-suspects-indicted-for-interference-in-us-election/2018/02/16/2504de5e-1342-11e8-9570-29c9830535e5_story.html

[Michael Murphy]

Good week for Mueller, bad week for trump. The trump inauguration committee  final produced the spend for inauguration.
Announced they paid Mrs. Trumps best friend 26,000,000 plus dollars with out explanation what she did to earn it.  Since dontations are tax deductible their are rules about spending and reporting.  A fertile ground for Mueller.

Gates is in active negotiations about plea deal, plus if he rolls he was vice chairman of the inauguration committee. In addition he would bolster case against Manafort.  Since he Worked for him.  That is  another possible guilty plea bring up the total to flout.
This is important since one person guilty can not testify about a crime unless there is additional witnesses.

Since trump denies Russian involvement interesting that 3 organizations and 13  Russian nationals indicted for working to fix 2016 election. 

Finally it turns out the Republican Congress changed the gun laws allowing 75,000 people with mental health problems to buy guns,  and trump signed it. So republicans refuse to block people on the terrorist watch list from buying guns, now they are allowing crazy people buy guns.  They have never released photos of the Presidunce sign that bill, the only bill signing he has done without released photos.

And when they accuse the democrats of making a political issue of the Florida shooting, they were the ones that released the inauguration committee audit same day as the shooting to hide it in the bigger story.

[Simon Dog]

Finally it turns out the Republican Congress changed the gun laws allowing 75,000 people with mental health problems to buy guns,  and trump signed it.

It would help if you had a deeper understanding than that presented by agenda driven sound bite journalism.

First off, it was not a "law chance" but a "policy change".

Social Security allows the recipient of benefits to appoint a representative payee who has authority to deal with the SS their behalf.   This is sometimes done for persons incapable of managing their finances, and at other times for convenience (for example, a mobility limited elderly person may prefer to have his/her spawn deal with SS for him/her).   For all practical purposes, "representative payee" is the SS equivalent of "durable power of attorney" (with the later not accepted by SS).

What the Trump administration did was reverse the policy that appointing a "representative payee" was tantamount to a finding of mental incompetence.    Many people, particularly the elderly (many of which are still of sound mind)  appoint such a representative, often an adult child, so they don't have to deal with the complications and hassles of navigating the SS system.

The Trump administration reversed the assumption that appointing a financial representative was proof of mental incompetence.   This is quite different than "allowing people with mental health problems to buy guns".

[lulu836]

It would help if you had a deeper understanding than that presented by agenda driven sound bite journalism.

^^^^^^^^ What he said! ^^^^^^^^ 

[MooseMom]

]
It would help if you had a deeper understanding than that presented by agenda driven sound bite journalism.

First off, it was not a "law chance" but a "policy change".

Social Security allows the recipient of benefits to appoint a representative payee who has authority to deal with the SS their behalf.   This is sometimes done for persons incapable of managing their finances, and at other times for convenience (for example, a mobility limited elderly person may prefer to have his/her spawn deal with SS for him/her).   For all practical purposes, "representative payee" is the SS equivalent of "durable power of attorney" (with the later not accepted by SS).

What the Trump administration did was reverse the policy that appointing a "representative payee" was tantamount to a finding of mental incompetence.    Many people, particularly the elderly (many of which are still of sound mind)  appoint such a representative, often an adult child, so they don't have to deal with the complications and hassles of navigating the SS system.

The Trump administration reversed the assumption that appointing a financial representative was proof of mental incompetence.   This is quite different than "allowing people with mental health problems to buy guns".

Nope.  Irrelevant word salad.  Seventeen people are still dead in yet another mass shooting.  All so that a minority of the population can still have their hobby.  It would help if you'd have a deeper understanding of THAT instead of couching those deaths in words like "agenda driven sound bite journalism."

Did you know that the White House won't authorize the release of the official photo taken of the signing of that particular piece of legislation?  We get photos of all of the other bumph that man signs, but not of this.  Journalists have been requesting the release of said photo, but no.  Why not, do you think?

Also, this;  http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/florida-voting-on-pro-gun-bills-day-after-parkland-shooting-10090033

Tell me again...why would anyone want an AR-15?  Can you give us all a "deeper understanding" of that?

edited to add:  Oops, sorry.  Michael Murphy already pointed out that no photo is available of Trump signing that bill.  Apologies.

[MooseMom]

Back to the Russian story...

Anyone who thinks that the Russians didn't influence the outcome of the election is being willfully ignorant.  Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, but some of the votes she didn't win were in the "wrong places".  The Russians knew that all they had to do was change the results in just a few districts in just a few states.  We already know they hacked into the voting system.  This Presidency will be forever asterisked.  I still think that the Dems will win a lot of seats back in the midterms, and I still think that Trump will howl about that and will blame it on the Russians, and I still think that he may well be right.  I don't understand why GOP Congresspeople don't seem to care. 

Between the Russians and the NRA, American democracy is dead.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/16/mueller-indictment-russia-takeaways-353667?lo=ap_b1

[Simon Dog]

Nope.  Irrelevant word salad.  Seventeen people are still dead in yet another mass shooting.  All so

I was commenting only on the assertion that Trump signed a law allowing 75K mentally ill people to buy guns.    Whether that assertion is accurate, or not, has nothing do with the broader gun control issue.   

The question I was addressing was the definition of mental illness.   Do you feel that appointing a financial representative to manage one's SS benefits is the equivalent of being adjudicated mentally ill?

Also, I was wrong when I said "rule change"- it was actually a bill to force a change in the rule.    Trump should have allowed cameras in for the signing.

Of all the things I've lost, I miss my kidneys the most.

For me, it's my dog.

[Michael Murphy]

All I know is it allows my step daughter who is bipolar 2 and schizophrenic to buy a gun since she is covered by the change.and I can’t think of anything scarier then her with a gun.

[Simon Dog]

All I know is it allows my step daughter who is bipolar 2 and schizophrenic to buy a gun since she is covered by the change.and I can’t think of anything scarier then her with a gun.

Some people on the SS "representative payee list" have mental illness.    That does not mean that being on the RP list is proof one has mental illness. 

I hope she doesn't have to take Li2C03 for the bipolar or else she will eventually be joining us on IHD.

The trick with a mental condition blacklist is to have it cover true dangerousness without creating a situation where gun owners don't even dare seek help for things like depression because they are afraid of being listed.

[MooseMom]

The trick with a mental condition blacklist is to have it cover true dangerousness without creating a situation where gun owners don't even dare seek help for things like depression because they are afraid of being listed.

Really?

Gun owners would rather hold on to their guns than be treated for depression?

Really?

And you're OK with that?

[Simon Dog]

nd you're OK with that?

I am not OK with that., which is why I think it is important too put some protections in place so that people are not punished for seeking help with small problems before they become big ones

Like it or not, a side effect of a broad "see a counselor, lose one of your rights" policy is that people will be reluctant to seek professional help.   It is easy for those who do not think people should own guns in the first place to say "well then, just make an appointment with a shrink and give them up", but that is not going to be the effect.

[Rerun]

If you see something say something..... must not work.  The FBI F'd it up twice. 

The left and right should make a deal.  We will ban Guns if you Ban Abortion.

It would save all our youths lives so they have a chance to grow up and be successful.