Quote from: gothiclovemonkey on December 17, 2012, 09:40:55 AMSome People are being kind of unreasonable right now. Yes, it was tragic, terrible, and I still cant believe it happened. I wish it hadnt happened, and I too was scared and saddened, and worried... but then reason set in, and I was brought to the conclusion that we need to continue to live our lives. Not only for our own sake, but because We CAN. There are people who died from these tragedies, and their families, friends, and communities, who lost a piece of themselves because of these tragedies. Yes, please, pray for them or whatever you believe. Yes, mourn for them. Worry that it could happen, because it could, BUT hope that it wont. And stop fighting and arguing about things we cannot change. Why do that? Love one another and be happy that we will live another day, and our families are whole, because not all have that luxury right now.Maybe merely mourning is not enough. And why get stuck into that trap of falling into inaction because these are things that "cannot change"? How many times in our history have people defied the odds and have indeed changed things that everyone else said could not be changed? Are we not a community here at IHD who are working hard to change the status quo that is dialysis as we know it? How many people said that slavery was here to stay or that women could never get the vote? We are not a nation that has ever sat back and done nothing because we truly thought that things would never change. Change is the essence of mankind. And change is happening at a faster and faster rate.I can't help but remember that it wasn't all that long ago that no one really thought twice about drinking and driving. Just about everyone smoked. No one thought those things would ever change, but they did, and now smoking and drunk driving are socially unacceptable, and texting while driving is swiftly becoming unacceptable as well. Our fascination with violence coupled with a general sweeping under the rug of mental illness CAN change. Yes, we should continue to live our lives, but we should also strive to make changes so that our lives, and the lives of our fellow Americans, will get better and safer.
Some People are being kind of unreasonable right now. Yes, it was tragic, terrible, and I still cant believe it happened. I wish it hadnt happened, and I too was scared and saddened, and worried... but then reason set in, and I was brought to the conclusion that we need to continue to live our lives. Not only for our own sake, but because We CAN. There are people who died from these tragedies, and their families, friends, and communities, who lost a piece of themselves because of these tragedies. Yes, please, pray for them or whatever you believe. Yes, mourn for them. Worry that it could happen, because it could, BUT hope that it wont. And stop fighting and arguing about things we cannot change. Why do that? Love one another and be happy that we will live another day, and our families are whole, because not all have that luxury right now.
I'd certainly go along with installing bullet resistant doors and windows at all schools and daycare facilities, but again, how expensive is that? I truly don't know, so I'd be grateful if someone could tell me. It that an expense that should be borne by the school districts alone? Again, do you think that people would be willing to pay for that? How long would it take to retrofit all schools?Should we be thinking about installing bullet proof doors and windows in all public places?
Quote from: Rerun on December 18, 2012, 12:02:33 PMI frankly am frustrated MM has to go on and on about her way and considers no one else is right. Maybe there would be a teacher that would jump at the chance to have a gun. Right now they are not allowed. Their freedom has been taken away. She just assumes all teachers would cower at the thought. It doesn't have to be all or none ya know. Those that feel comfortable can do it. LOL! And here I was just agreeing with Hemodoc that focussing on gun control only without also considering mental health issues would be an ineffective way of dealing with the problem. No, I am making no assumptions about what teachers want or don't want. If there are teachers who are willing to go through the training and be properly certified, then that's fine. But before we go that route, we need to be very careful about how we would allow there to be storage of weapons and ammunition in an elementary school room that would keep such materiel safe from children yet still easily and quickly accessible.So Rerun, if you were a grade school teacher in a class of, say, 20 6 year olds, how would you yourself get to your gun quickly yet still keep it safe from inquisitive little boys? Would you keep that gun in your desk already loaded? What kind of weapon would you have?Do you think that most parents would be OK with their child's schoolteacher keeping a loaded rifle at her desk?At any rate, thank you for your kind words.
I frankly am frustrated MM has to go on and on about her way and considers no one else is right. Maybe there would be a teacher that would jump at the chance to have a gun. Right now they are not allowed. Their freedom has been taken away. She just assumes all teachers would cower at the thought. It doesn't have to be all or none ya know. Those that feel comfortable can do it.
Lastly, I just heard on the news that people who are on the terrorist "no-fly" list are still legally permitted to have and/or purchase guns. This surprised me.
This is because the "no fly list" is not a finding of guilt; does not involve due process; does not give the non-flier the opportunity to confront the evidence against him/her; poses no mechanism to dispute the finding before a neutral finder of fact; etc. Depriving someone of a constitutional right without any of the aforementioned procedural safeguards is unlikely to survive even intermediate scrutiny.
QuoteLastly, I just heard on the news that people who are on the terrorist "no-fly" list are still legally permitted to have and/or purchase guns. This surprised me. This is because the "no fly list" is not a finding of guilt; does not involve due process; does not give the non-flier the opportunity to confront the evidence against him/her; poses no mechanism to dispute the finding before a neutral finder of fact; etc. Depriving someone of a constitutional right without any of the aforementioned procedural safeguards is unlikely to survive even intermediate scrutiny.
Quote from: YLGuy on December 17, 2012, 05:30:39 PMSTOP!There are many bad things that are happening in this world right now. This is about:(CNN) -- When a gunman opened fire inside a Newtown, Connecticut, elementary school Friday, he cut short 26 lives. Six women who worked at Sandy Hook Elementary were killed, in addition to 20 students -- twelve girls and eight boys -- according to state police.Here are details about their lives:Charlotte Bacon, 6Charlotte was sweet, outgoing and full of energy, her grandmother told CNN affiliate WCCO in Minnesota."This is tough. This is surreal. You can't believe this could happen," Irene Hagen told the network. "The whole family is just devastated and we're all trying to come to terms with it."She said her granddaughter loved school and dresses. Her hair was a mass of beautiful red curls."It's horrible. It's really horrible," Hagen told WCCO. "It's hard to believe that someone would kill children, innocent children."Rachel D'Avino, 29She likely didn't know it when she died, but her best friend was about to propose.He had recently asked Rachel's parents for permission, and he was planning to ask for her hand in marriage on Christmas Eve.That and other details about Rachel's life were described in an obituary posted on the website of Munson-Lovetere Funeral Homes of Connecticut."Her presence and tremendous smile brightened any room she entered," it read.Born in Waterbury, Rachel received her undergraduate degree from the University of Hartford and her Masters from Post University. She was working toward her Doctorate at the University of St. Joseph of Hartford.Rachel loved karate, cooking, animals, photography and her two younger siblings."Her passion, however, was her occupation as a behavioral therapist working with children within the autism spectrum," the obituary read.In lieu of flowers, it asked that donations be made to Autism Speaks, an advocay organization.Olivia Engel, 6Her favorite stuffed animal was a lamb; pink and purple were her favorite colors.Olivia's family posted a statement on Facebook with those and other details about their beloved daughter."She was insightful for her age and had a great sense of humor. She laughed a lot and always lit up a room including the people around her. She was very creative and was always drawing and designing things," her family said.Olivia took art and dance lessons, played tennis, soccer and swam. She was involved in Girl Scouts and musical theater. She loved school and did well in math and reading.Her family described her as a "grateful child ... never greedy." Each night, Olivia led grace at the dinner table.Dylan Hockley, 6"To know him was to love him," Dylan's grandmother told the Boston Herald about her grandson.Dylan loved video games, jumping on a trampoline, watching movies and munching garlic bread, she said. He had dimples, blue eyes and "the most mischievous little grin," Theresa Moretti told the newspaper.She said her daughter and son-in-law moved to Connecticut from England and chose to live where they did because of the schools. Dylan had an older brother."He was an angel," Moretti told the Herald. "And I think that's now why he's in heaven."Dawn Lafferty Hochsprung, 47Hochsprung, who became Sandy Hook Elementary School's principal two years ago, was "really nice and very fun, but she was also very much a tough lady in the right sort of sense," friend Tom Prunty said. And the students loved her. "Even little kids know when someone cares about them, and that was her," Prunty said."I never saw her without a smile," said Aimee Seaver, mother of a first-grader.Hochsprung lived in Woodbury, Connecticut, with her husband, two daughters and three stepdaughters.The longtime career educator majored in special education for her bachelor's and master's degrees in the 1990s and had just entered the Ph.D. program at Esteves School of Education at the Sage Colleges in New York last summer. Hochsprung led a school district's strategic planning panel and was the recipient of a national school grant.Her accomplishments included overseeing the installation of a new security system requiring every visitor to ring the front entrance's doorbell after the school doors locked at 9:30 a.m."My mom, Dawn Hochsprung, was taken tragically from me. But she went down in a blaze of glory that truly represents who she was," her daughter, Cristina Hassinger, tweeted.Jesse Lewis, 6Jesse loved math, riding horses and playing at his mom's farm, his father told the New York Post."He was just a happy boy," said Neil Heslin. "Everybody knew Jesse."He told the newspaper his son was to make gingerbread houses at school Friday. Heslin was planning to help.Instead, the last time he saw his son was when he dropped him off at school at 9 a.m."He was going to go places in life," Heslin told the Post.Ana Marquez-Greene, 6"1, 2, 3, ready and go," Ana counts down in a homemade video provided to CNN affiliate WTIC.The girl in pigtails stands in front of a piano as her brother plays. Her voice is clear, bigger than her size. Ana smiles and waves.Her father, Jimmy Greene, is a jazz musician. His representative released a statement on Ana's death, describing the little girl as "beautiful and vibrant.""The family has requested privacy at this time of heartbreaking loss," it read. They "have asked us to relay their sincere gratitude for the outpouring of support and sympathy locally, nationally and internationally."Grace McDonnell, 7The ultimate "girly girl." Grace loved wearing pink and playing dress-up with jewelry, her grandmother told the Boston Herald.As Mary Ann McDonnell spoke, she was surrounded by Christmas presents meant for Grace, Gracie, as she was sometimes called.The little girl loved art, gymnastics, soccer and her small spaniel, Puddin', her grandmother said."She was a wonderful little girl. She was always smiling," McDonnell told the newspaper. "I think everybody should know about these beautiful children whose lives were cut short."Anne Marie Murphy, 52A hero. That's how a first responder reportedly described Murphy to her father.He told Newsday that authorities told him her body was found in a classroom, covering young children killed in the shooting in an apparent attempt to shield them."She died doing what she loved. She was serving children and serving God," Murphy's mother, Alice McGowan, told the newspaper.A married mother of four, Murphy was artistic and hardworking, her parents said."She was a happy soul," her mother told Newsday. "She was a very good daughter, a good mother, a good wife."Emilie Parker, 6She could "light up a room," Emilie's father said about his oldest daughter.Robbie Parker described her as "bright, creative and very loving." Emilie was always willing to try new things, he said, except food. Her laugh was infectious."My daughter Emilie would be one of the first ones to be standing up and giving her love and support to all of those victims, because that is the type of person she is," said Parker.He said she was "an exceptional artist and she always carried around her markers and pencils so she never missed an opportunity to draw a picture or make a card for someone.""This world is a better place because she has been in it," Parker said.Emilie's aunt described her niece as the "sweetest little girl I've ever known."The family is devastated that "someone so beautiful and perfect is no longer going to be in our lives and for no reason," said Jill Cottle Garrett.Emilie's father, who works as a physician's assistant in the newborn unit at the Danbury hospital, recalled his last conversation with his daughter was in Portuguese, a language he was teaching her."She said that she loved me, and I gave her a kiss and I was out the door," he said.Noah Pozner, 6"He had a huge heart and he was so much fun, a little bit rambunctious, lots of spirit," Noah's aunt told CNN. "He was really the light of the room."Victoria Haller said her nephew loved playing with his cousins and siblings, especially his twin sister."He was a gorgeous, gorgeous boy and he could really get what he wanted just by batting those long eyelashes and looking at you with those big blue eyes. You really couldn't say no to him," she said.His siblings don't know yet the exact way in which Noah passed away, Haller said."How do you tell them that's how their brother died?" she asked. "It's the unthinkable really."Jessica Rekos, 6Jessica loved everything about horses -- horse movies, horse books, drawing horses and writing stories about them.She asked Santa this year for new cowgirl boots and a cowgirl hat. Her family had promised she could get her own horse when she turned 10."She was a creative, beautiful, little girl," her family said in a statement, describing Jessica as their "rock.""She had an answer for everything, she didn't miss a trick, and she outsmarted us every time. We called her our little CEO for the way she carefully thought out and planned everything," they said. "We can not imagine our life without her."Jessica also loved orca whales and playing with her two little brothers."We are mourning her loss, sharing our beautiful memories we have of her, and trying to help her brother Travis understand why he can't play with his best friend," her family said.Lauren Rousseau, 30Rousseau, a permanent substitute teacher at Sandy Hook Elementary, "wanted to be a teacher from before she even went to kindergarten," her mother said in a written statement Saturday. "We will miss her terribly and will take comfort knowing that she had achieved that dream," Teresa Rousseau said.She grew up in Danbury, Connecticut, and earned a bachelor's degree from the University of Connecticut and a master's degree in elementary education from the University of Bridgeport.Rousseau "worked as a substitute teacher in Danbury, New Milford and Newtown before she was hired in November as a permanent substitute teacher at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown," her mother said.Mary Sherlach, 56Sherlach, Sandy Hook Elementary's school psychologist, was with Hochsprung when they heard a "pop, pop, pop" sound around 9:30 a.m., a parent with both women at the time told CNN. Sherlach was shot to death after heading into the hall to find out what was happening."I ... am always ready to assist in problem-solving, intervention and prevention," Sherlach wrote on her website.Sherlach earned her undergraduate degree in psychology at SUNY Cortland and a master's degree at Southern Connecticut State University. She worked as a rehabilitation assistant at a group home for disabled adults and as a community mental health placement specialist before becoming a school psychologist.She worked in three Connecticut school systems before moving to Sandy Hook Elementary in 1994. During her time in Newtown, Sherlach kept busy as a member of numerous groups such as the district conflict resolution committee, safe school climate committee, crisis intervention team and student instructional team.Sherlach and her husband for more than three decades lived in Trumbull, Connecticut, and, together, they were "proud parents" of two daughters in their late 20s. Her website listed her interests as gardening, reading and going to the theater.Victoria Soto, 27Soto, a first-grade teacher at Sandy Hook Elementary, moved her students away from the classroom door when she heard gunfire, which students initially "thought were hammers falling," according to the father of one of her students."That's when the gunman burst in, did not say a word, no facial expressions, and proceeded to shoot their teacher," said Robert Licata, whose 6-year-old son, Aiden, escaped by running past the shooter.Soto's mother said her daughter was selfless."She would not hesitate to think to save anyone else before herself and especially children. She loved them more than life, and she would definitely put herself in front of them any day," Donna Soto told CNN's Piers Morgan.Soto wanted to be a teacher since she was 3 and talked about her students with "such fondness and caring," her mother said.Soto's cousin, James Wiltsie, said Soto "instinctively went into action when a monster came into her classroom and tried to protect the kids that she loved so much.""We just want the public to know that Vicki was a hero," he said.Soto had a dog she loved. The black lab Roxie spent Saturday wandering around Soto's apartment, apparently looking for her, relatives said.Other victimsDaniel Barden, 7; Josephine Gay, 7; Madeleine Hsu, 6; Catherine Hubbard, 6; Chase Kowalski, 7; James Mattioli, 6; Jack Pinto, 6; Caroline Previdi, 6; Avielle Richman, 6; Benjamin Wheeler, 6; Allison Wyatt, 6.To make this thread about your politics or religious views is wrong. If you can't see that then I guess you never will.May they rest in peace.Chill out YL, that is bad for your health. Everyone is angered and shocked by these tragic events that sadly could have been prevented. If Rerun and Moosemom and even me want to talk openly about these issues, that is the IHD way YL in the OFF TOPIC, DISCUSS ANYTHING YOU WANT SECTION. We are all sickened and angered by the loss of innocent life which some of us likewise feel about abortion. Sorry, but if you can't handle discussions on these issues, perhaps you need to take a time out.
STOP!There are many bad things that are happening in this world right now. This is about:(CNN) -- When a gunman opened fire inside a Newtown, Connecticut, elementary school Friday, he cut short 26 lives. Six women who worked at Sandy Hook Elementary were killed, in addition to 20 students -- twelve girls and eight boys -- according to state police.Here are details about their lives:Charlotte Bacon, 6Charlotte was sweet, outgoing and full of energy, her grandmother told CNN affiliate WCCO in Minnesota."This is tough. This is surreal. You can't believe this could happen," Irene Hagen told the network. "The whole family is just devastated and we're all trying to come to terms with it."She said her granddaughter loved school and dresses. Her hair was a mass of beautiful red curls."It's horrible. It's really horrible," Hagen told WCCO. "It's hard to believe that someone would kill children, innocent children."Rachel D'Avino, 29She likely didn't know it when she died, but her best friend was about to propose.He had recently asked Rachel's parents for permission, and he was planning to ask for her hand in marriage on Christmas Eve.That and other details about Rachel's life were described in an obituary posted on the website of Munson-Lovetere Funeral Homes of Connecticut."Her presence and tremendous smile brightened any room she entered," it read.Born in Waterbury, Rachel received her undergraduate degree from the University of Hartford and her Masters from Post University. She was working toward her Doctorate at the University of St. Joseph of Hartford.Rachel loved karate, cooking, animals, photography and her two younger siblings."Her passion, however, was her occupation as a behavioral therapist working with children within the autism spectrum," the obituary read.In lieu of flowers, it asked that donations be made to Autism Speaks, an advocay organization.Olivia Engel, 6Her favorite stuffed animal was a lamb; pink and purple were her favorite colors.Olivia's family posted a statement on Facebook with those and other details about their beloved daughter."She was insightful for her age and had a great sense of humor. She laughed a lot and always lit up a room including the people around her. She was very creative and was always drawing and designing things," her family said.Olivia took art and dance lessons, played tennis, soccer and swam. She was involved in Girl Scouts and musical theater. She loved school and did well in math and reading.Her family described her as a "grateful child ... never greedy." Each night, Olivia led grace at the dinner table.Dylan Hockley, 6"To know him was to love him," Dylan's grandmother told the Boston Herald about her grandson.Dylan loved video games, jumping on a trampoline, watching movies and munching garlic bread, she said. He had dimples, blue eyes and "the most mischievous little grin," Theresa Moretti told the newspaper.She said her daughter and son-in-law moved to Connecticut from England and chose to live where they did because of the schools. Dylan had an older brother."He was an angel," Moretti told the Herald. "And I think that's now why he's in heaven."Dawn Lafferty Hochsprung, 47Hochsprung, who became Sandy Hook Elementary School's principal two years ago, was "really nice and very fun, but she was also very much a tough lady in the right sort of sense," friend Tom Prunty said. And the students loved her. "Even little kids know when someone cares about them, and that was her," Prunty said."I never saw her without a smile," said Aimee Seaver, mother of a first-grader.Hochsprung lived in Woodbury, Connecticut, with her husband, two daughters and three stepdaughters.The longtime career educator majored in special education for her bachelor's and master's degrees in the 1990s and had just entered the Ph.D. program at Esteves School of Education at the Sage Colleges in New York last summer. Hochsprung led a school district's strategic planning panel and was the recipient of a national school grant.Her accomplishments included overseeing the installation of a new security system requiring every visitor to ring the front entrance's doorbell after the school doors locked at 9:30 a.m."My mom, Dawn Hochsprung, was taken tragically from me. But she went down in a blaze of glory that truly represents who she was," her daughter, Cristina Hassinger, tweeted.Jesse Lewis, 6Jesse loved math, riding horses and playing at his mom's farm, his father told the New York Post."He was just a happy boy," said Neil Heslin. "Everybody knew Jesse."He told the newspaper his son was to make gingerbread houses at school Friday. Heslin was planning to help.Instead, the last time he saw his son was when he dropped him off at school at 9 a.m."He was going to go places in life," Heslin told the Post.Ana Marquez-Greene, 6"1, 2, 3, ready and go," Ana counts down in a homemade video provided to CNN affiliate WTIC.The girl in pigtails stands in front of a piano as her brother plays. Her voice is clear, bigger than her size. Ana smiles and waves.Her father, Jimmy Greene, is a jazz musician. His representative released a statement on Ana's death, describing the little girl as "beautiful and vibrant.""The family has requested privacy at this time of heartbreaking loss," it read. They "have asked us to relay their sincere gratitude for the outpouring of support and sympathy locally, nationally and internationally."Grace McDonnell, 7The ultimate "girly girl." Grace loved wearing pink and playing dress-up with jewelry, her grandmother told the Boston Herald.As Mary Ann McDonnell spoke, she was surrounded by Christmas presents meant for Grace, Gracie, as she was sometimes called.The little girl loved art, gymnastics, soccer and her small spaniel, Puddin', her grandmother said."She was a wonderful little girl. She was always smiling," McDonnell told the newspaper. "I think everybody should know about these beautiful children whose lives were cut short."Anne Marie Murphy, 52A hero. That's how a first responder reportedly described Murphy to her father.He told Newsday that authorities told him her body was found in a classroom, covering young children killed in the shooting in an apparent attempt to shield them."She died doing what she loved. She was serving children and serving God," Murphy's mother, Alice McGowan, told the newspaper.A married mother of four, Murphy was artistic and hardworking, her parents said."She was a happy soul," her mother told Newsday. "She was a very good daughter, a good mother, a good wife."Emilie Parker, 6She could "light up a room," Emilie's father said about his oldest daughter.Robbie Parker described her as "bright, creative and very loving." Emilie was always willing to try new things, he said, except food. Her laugh was infectious."My daughter Emilie would be one of the first ones to be standing up and giving her love and support to all of those victims, because that is the type of person she is," said Parker.He said she was "an exceptional artist and she always carried around her markers and pencils so she never missed an opportunity to draw a picture or make a card for someone.""This world is a better place because she has been in it," Parker said.Emilie's aunt described her niece as the "sweetest little girl I've ever known."The family is devastated that "someone so beautiful and perfect is no longer going to be in our lives and for no reason," said Jill Cottle Garrett.Emilie's father, who works as a physician's assistant in the newborn unit at the Danbury hospital, recalled his last conversation with his daughter was in Portuguese, a language he was teaching her."She said that she loved me, and I gave her a kiss and I was out the door," he said.Noah Pozner, 6"He had a huge heart and he was so much fun, a little bit rambunctious, lots of spirit," Noah's aunt told CNN. "He was really the light of the room."Victoria Haller said her nephew loved playing with his cousins and siblings, especially his twin sister."He was a gorgeous, gorgeous boy and he could really get what he wanted just by batting those long eyelashes and looking at you with those big blue eyes. You really couldn't say no to him," she said.His siblings don't know yet the exact way in which Noah passed away, Haller said."How do you tell them that's how their brother died?" she asked. "It's the unthinkable really."Jessica Rekos, 6Jessica loved everything about horses -- horse movies, horse books, drawing horses and writing stories about them.She asked Santa this year for new cowgirl boots and a cowgirl hat. Her family had promised she could get her own horse when she turned 10."She was a creative, beautiful, little girl," her family said in a statement, describing Jessica as their "rock.""She had an answer for everything, she didn't miss a trick, and she outsmarted us every time. We called her our little CEO for the way she carefully thought out and planned everything," they said. "We can not imagine our life without her."Jessica also loved orca whales and playing with her two little brothers."We are mourning her loss, sharing our beautiful memories we have of her, and trying to help her brother Travis understand why he can't play with his best friend," her family said.Lauren Rousseau, 30Rousseau, a permanent substitute teacher at Sandy Hook Elementary, "wanted to be a teacher from before she even went to kindergarten," her mother said in a written statement Saturday. "We will miss her terribly and will take comfort knowing that she had achieved that dream," Teresa Rousseau said.She grew up in Danbury, Connecticut, and earned a bachelor's degree from the University of Connecticut and a master's degree in elementary education from the University of Bridgeport.Rousseau "worked as a substitute teacher in Danbury, New Milford and Newtown before she was hired in November as a permanent substitute teacher at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown," her mother said.Mary Sherlach, 56Sherlach, Sandy Hook Elementary's school psychologist, was with Hochsprung when they heard a "pop, pop, pop" sound around 9:30 a.m., a parent with both women at the time told CNN. Sherlach was shot to death after heading into the hall to find out what was happening."I ... am always ready to assist in problem-solving, intervention and prevention," Sherlach wrote on her website.Sherlach earned her undergraduate degree in psychology at SUNY Cortland and a master's degree at Southern Connecticut State University. She worked as a rehabilitation assistant at a group home for disabled adults and as a community mental health placement specialist before becoming a school psychologist.She worked in three Connecticut school systems before moving to Sandy Hook Elementary in 1994. During her time in Newtown, Sherlach kept busy as a member of numerous groups such as the district conflict resolution committee, safe school climate committee, crisis intervention team and student instructional team.Sherlach and her husband for more than three decades lived in Trumbull, Connecticut, and, together, they were "proud parents" of two daughters in their late 20s. Her website listed her interests as gardening, reading and going to the theater.Victoria Soto, 27Soto, a first-grade teacher at Sandy Hook Elementary, moved her students away from the classroom door when she heard gunfire, which students initially "thought were hammers falling," according to the father of one of her students."That's when the gunman burst in, did not say a word, no facial expressions, and proceeded to shoot their teacher," said Robert Licata, whose 6-year-old son, Aiden, escaped by running past the shooter.Soto's mother said her daughter was selfless."She would not hesitate to think to save anyone else before herself and especially children. She loved them more than life, and she would definitely put herself in front of them any day," Donna Soto told CNN's Piers Morgan.Soto wanted to be a teacher since she was 3 and talked about her students with "such fondness and caring," her mother said.Soto's cousin, James Wiltsie, said Soto "instinctively went into action when a monster came into her classroom and tried to protect the kids that she loved so much.""We just want the public to know that Vicki was a hero," he said.Soto had a dog she loved. The black lab Roxie spent Saturday wandering around Soto's apartment, apparently looking for her, relatives said.Other victimsDaniel Barden, 7; Josephine Gay, 7; Madeleine Hsu, 6; Catherine Hubbard, 6; Chase Kowalski, 7; James Mattioli, 6; Jack Pinto, 6; Caroline Previdi, 6; Avielle Richman, 6; Benjamin Wheeler, 6; Allison Wyatt, 6.To make this thread about your politics or religious views is wrong. If you can't see that then I guess you never will.May they rest in peace.
Quote from: Hemodoc on December 17, 2012, 05:50:40 PMQuote from: YLGuy on December 17, 2012, 05:30:39 PMSTOP!There are many bad things that are happening in this world right now. This is about:(CNN) -- When a gunman opened fire inside a Newtown, Connecticut, elementary school Friday, he cut short 26 lives. Six women who worked at Sandy Hook Elementary were killed, in addition to 20 students -- twelve girls and eight boys -- according to state police.Here are details about their lives:Charlotte Bacon, 6Charlotte was sweet, outgoing and full of energy, her grandmother told CNN affiliate WCCO in Minnesota."This is tough. This is surreal. You can't believe this could happen," Irene Hagen told the network. "The whole family is just devastated and we're all trying to come to terms with it."She said her granddaughter loved school and dresses. Her hair was a mass of beautiful red curls."It's horrible. It's really horrible," Hagen told WCCO. "It's hard to believe that someone would kill children, innocent children."Rachel D'Avino, 29She likely didn't know it when she died, but her best friend was about to propose.He had recently asked Rachel's parents for permission, and he was planning to ask for her hand in marriage on Christmas Eve.That and other details about Rachel's life were described in an obituary posted on the website of Munson-Lovetere Funeral Homes of Connecticut."Her presence and tremendous smile brightened any room she entered," it read.Born in Waterbury, Rachel received her undergraduate degree from the University of Hartford and her Masters from Post University. She was working toward her Doctorate at the University of St. Joseph of Hartford.Rachel loved karate, cooking, animals, photography and her two younger siblings."Her passion, however, was her occupation as a behavioral therapist working with children within the autism spectrum," the obituary read.In lieu of flowers, it asked that donations be made to Autism Speaks, an advocay organization.Olivia Engel, 6Her favorite stuffed animal was a lamb; pink and purple were her favorite colors.Olivia's family posted a statement on Facebook with those and other details about their beloved daughter."She was insightful for her age and had a great sense of humor. She laughed a lot and always lit up a room including the people around her. She was very creative and was always drawing and designing things," her family said.Olivia took art and dance lessons, played tennis, soccer and swam. She was involved in Girl Scouts and musical theater. She loved school and did well in math and reading.Her family described her as a "grateful child ... never greedy." Each night, Olivia led grace at the dinner table.Dylan Hockley, 6"To know him was to love him," Dylan's grandmother told the Boston Herald about her grandson.Dylan loved video games, jumping on a trampoline, watching movies and munching garlic bread, she said. He had dimples, blue eyes and "the most mischievous little grin," Theresa Moretti told the newspaper.She said her daughter and son-in-law moved to Connecticut from England and chose to live where they did because of the schools. Dylan had an older brother."He was an angel," Moretti told the Herald. "And I think that's now why he's in heaven."Dawn Lafferty Hochsprung, 47Hochsprung, who became Sandy Hook Elementary School's principal two years ago, was "really nice and very fun, but she was also very much a tough lady in the right sort of sense," friend Tom Prunty said. And the students loved her. "Even little kids know when someone cares about them, and that was her," Prunty said."I never saw her without a smile," said Aimee Seaver, mother of a first-grader.Hochsprung lived in Woodbury, Connecticut, with her husband, two daughters and three stepdaughters.The longtime career educator majored in special education for her bachelor's and master's degrees in the 1990s and had just entered the Ph.D. program at Esteves School of Education at the Sage Colleges in New York last summer. Hochsprung led a school district's strategic planning panel and was the recipient of a national school grant.Her accomplishments included overseeing the installation of a new security system requiring every visitor to ring the front entrance's doorbell after the school doors locked at 9:30 a.m."My mom, Dawn Hochsprung, was taken tragically from me. But she went down in a blaze of glory that truly represents who she was," her daughter, Cristina Hassinger, tweeted.Jesse Lewis, 6Jesse loved math, riding horses and playing at his mom's farm, his father told the New York Post."He was just a happy boy," said Neil Heslin. "Everybody knew Jesse."He told the newspaper his son was to make gingerbread houses at school Friday. Heslin was planning to help.Instead, the last time he saw his son was when he dropped him off at school at 9 a.m."He was going to go places in life," Heslin told the Post.Ana Marquez-Greene, 6"1, 2, 3, ready and go," Ana counts down in a homemade video provided to CNN affiliate WTIC.The girl in pigtails stands in front of a piano as her brother plays. Her voice is clear, bigger than her size. Ana smiles and waves.Her father, Jimmy Greene, is a jazz musician. His representative released a statement on Ana's death, describing the little girl as "beautiful and vibrant.""The family has requested privacy at this time of heartbreaking loss," it read. They "have asked us to relay their sincere gratitude for the outpouring of support and sympathy locally, nationally and internationally."Grace McDonnell, 7The ultimate "girly girl." Grace loved wearing pink and playing dress-up with jewelry, her grandmother told the Boston Herald.As Mary Ann McDonnell spoke, she was surrounded by Christmas presents meant for Grace, Gracie, as she was sometimes called.The little girl loved art, gymnastics, soccer and her small spaniel, Puddin', her grandmother said."She was a wonderful little girl. She was always smiling," McDonnell told the newspaper. "I think everybody should know about these beautiful children whose lives were cut short."Anne Marie Murphy, 52A hero. That's how a first responder reportedly described Murphy to her father.He told Newsday that authorities told him her body was found in a classroom, covering young children killed in the shooting in an apparent attempt to shield them."She died doing what she loved. She was serving children and serving God," Murphy's mother, Alice McGowan, told the newspaper.A married mother of four, Murphy was artistic and hardworking, her parents said."She was a happy soul," her mother told Newsday. "She was a very good daughter, a good mother, a good wife."Emilie Parker, 6She could "light up a room," Emilie's father said about his oldest daughter.Robbie Parker described her as "bright, creative and very loving." Emilie was always willing to try new things, he said, except food. Her laugh was infectious."My daughter Emilie would be one of the first ones to be standing up and giving her love and support to all of those victims, because that is the type of person she is," said Parker.He said she was "an exceptional artist and she always carried around her markers and pencils so she never missed an opportunity to draw a picture or make a card for someone.""This world is a better place because she has been in it," Parker said.Emilie's aunt described her niece as the "sweetest little girl I've ever known."The family is devastated that "someone so beautiful and perfect is no longer going to be in our lives and for no reason," said Jill Cottle Garrett.Emilie's father, who works as a physician's assistant in the newborn unit at the Danbury hospital, recalled his last conversation with his daughter was in Portuguese, a language he was teaching her."She said that she loved me, and I gave her a kiss and I was out the door," he said.Noah Pozner, 6"He had a huge heart and he was so much fun, a little bit rambunctious, lots of spirit," Noah's aunt told CNN. "He was really the light of the room."Victoria Haller said her nephew loved playing with his cousins and siblings, especially his twin sister."He was a gorgeous, gorgeous boy and he could really get what he wanted just by batting those long eyelashes and looking at you with those big blue eyes. You really couldn't say no to him," she said.His siblings don't know yet the exact way in which Noah passed away, Haller said."How do you tell them that's how their brother died?" she asked. "It's the unthinkable really."Jessica Rekos, 6Jessica loved everything about horses -- horse movies, horse books, drawing horses and writing stories about them.She asked Santa this year for new cowgirl boots and a cowgirl hat. Her family had promised she could get her own horse when she turned 10."She was a creative, beautiful, little girl," her family said in a statement, describing Jessica as their "rock.""She had an answer for everything, she didn't miss a trick, and she outsmarted us every time. We called her our little CEO for the way she carefully thought out and planned everything," they said. "We can not imagine our life without her."Jessica also loved orca whales and playing with her two little brothers."We are mourning her loss, sharing our beautiful memories we have of her, and trying to help her brother Travis understand why he can't play with his best friend," her family said.Lauren Rousseau, 30Rousseau, a permanent substitute teacher at Sandy Hook Elementary, "wanted to be a teacher from before she even went to kindergarten," her mother said in a written statement Saturday. "We will miss her terribly and will take comfort knowing that she had achieved that dream," Teresa Rousseau said.She grew up in Danbury, Connecticut, and earned a bachelor's degree from the University of Connecticut and a master's degree in elementary education from the University of Bridgeport.Rousseau "worked as a substitute teacher in Danbury, New Milford and Newtown before she was hired in November as a permanent substitute teacher at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown," her mother said.Mary Sherlach, 56Sherlach, Sandy Hook Elementary's school psychologist, was with Hochsprung when they heard a "pop, pop, pop" sound around 9:30 a.m., a parent with both women at the time told CNN. Sherlach was shot to death after heading into the hall to find out what was happening."I ... am always ready to assist in problem-solving, intervention and prevention," Sherlach wrote on her website.Sherlach earned her undergraduate degree in psychology at SUNY Cortland and a master's degree at Southern Connecticut State University. She worked as a rehabilitation assistant at a group home for disabled adults and as a community mental health placement specialist before becoming a school psychologist.She worked in three Connecticut school systems before moving to Sandy Hook Elementary in 1994. During her time in Newtown, Sherlach kept busy as a member of numerous groups such as the district conflict resolution committee, safe school climate committee, crisis intervention team and student instructional team.Sherlach and her husband for more than three decades lived in Trumbull, Connecticut, and, together, they were "proud parents" of two daughters in their late 20s. Her website listed her interests as gardening, reading and going to the theater.Victoria Soto, 27Soto, a first-grade teacher at Sandy Hook Elementary, moved her students away from the classroom door when she heard gunfire, which students initially "thought were hammers falling," according to the father of one of her students."That's when the gunman burst in, did not say a word, no facial expressions, and proceeded to shoot their teacher," said Robert Licata, whose 6-year-old son, Aiden, escaped by running past the shooter.Soto's mother said her daughter was selfless."She would not hesitate to think to save anyone else before herself and especially children. She loved them more than life, and she would definitely put herself in front of them any day," Donna Soto told CNN's Piers Morgan.Soto wanted to be a teacher since she was 3 and talked about her students with "such fondness and caring," her mother said.Soto's cousin, James Wiltsie, said Soto "instinctively went into action when a monster came into her classroom and tried to protect the kids that she loved so much.""We just want the public to know that Vicki was a hero," he said.Soto had a dog she loved. The black lab Roxie spent Saturday wandering around Soto's apartment, apparently looking for her, relatives said.Other victimsDaniel Barden, 7; Josephine Gay, 7; Madeleine Hsu, 6; Catherine Hubbard, 6; Chase Kowalski, 7; James Mattioli, 6; Jack Pinto, 6; Caroline Previdi, 6; Avielle Richman, 6; Benjamin Wheeler, 6; Allison Wyatt, 6.To make this thread about your politics or religious views is wrong. If you can't see that then I guess you never will.May they rest in peace.Chill out YL, that is bad for your health. Everyone is angered and shocked by these tragic events that sadly could have been prevented. If Rerun and Moosemom and even me want to talk openly about these issues, that is the IHD way YL in the OFF TOPIC, DISCUSS ANYTHING YOU WANT SECTION. We are all sickened and angered by the loss of innocent life which some of us likewise feel about abortion. Sorry, but if you can't handle discussions on these issues, perhaps you need to take a time out.Again you show that you do not have a clue about what you are talking about. If you don't know, don't say anything about it. It really makes you look like a stupid . I guess if the fits, wear it.You owe me an apology for stating facts about me that are completely untrue.
the schools in my district have used the "doorbell" system since columbine. the same system they use at sandy hook. works well if you don't know the person or can see the guns. however if the person is known to the office as in this case......well there you know the gunman is inside and........ i don't know what the answer is.
SimonDog, thanks so much for your replies to my questions. I appreciate it. Like I've said before, I can see the fun one can have in a shooting competition.I've never really thought about gun ownership from the point of view of making sure that there are no "special" groups/individuals that have access to guns while "regular folk" do not. Do you have any idea why the likes of Bill Cosby, Sean Penn and Donald Trump would be granted special permits to carry in NYC or why they would even want them in the first place?Yeah, I can understand that openly carrying a handgun is "not done".Thanks again for your reply.
Aidan said it would make school feel like a prison. I do suspect he's right. Do the kids get any say in this whatsoever? Both my kids said they would be scared if they knew that teachers had access to guns. My older son asked "what if that teacher got angry?" The younger boy said he would be scared if he didn't know the teacher, because "we wouldn't know if they were good or evil".
Quote from: thegrammalady on December 19, 2012, 10:36:58 AMthe schools in my district have used the "doorbell" system since columbine. the same system they use at sandy hook. works well if you don't know the person or can see the guns. however if the person is known to the office as in this case......well there you know the gunman is inside and........ i don't know what the answer is.This guy was not known to the office. He was wearing black gear and a mask of some sort. He broke into the office via the window. He did not ring a bell or even try to use the door. I don't know if he shot it open w/one of his many guns and ammo, or if he kicked it in, or what. But he was not let in by anyone on the staff. Contrary to early reports, his mother never worked at the school, nor was he ever a student there.KarenInWA
This tragedy was so sad because it is so very VERY rare.
Quote from: cariad on December 18, 2012, 02:20:44 PMAidan said it would make school feel like a prison. I do suspect he's right. Do the kids get any say in this whatsoever? Both my kids said they would be scared if they knew that teachers had access to guns. My older son asked "what if that teacher got angry?" The younger boy said he would be scared if he didn't know the teacher, because "we wouldn't know if they were good or evil".I wasn't going to comment on this thread, mostly because it's made me realise that American culture is in many respects so completely different to British culture that we may as well come from different planets, but I think this is one of the most important issues about what's happened ...The majority of children feel safe, happy and secure at school. This is without the need for security guards and airport style scanners and armed teachers. And children have the right to feel safe in school; some children spend more time on school premises than they may spend in their own homes so the environment needs to support them in feeling safe, secure and happy. Arming members of staff or creating an environment which is too secure will scare many children. A life of fear and paranoia is not something any of us should want for children. Surely it could even cause problems further down the line as (for some) the fear and paranoia that is subcosciously drummed into them at an early age may manifest itself in adulthood?This tragedy was so sad because it is so very VERY rare. And although it is no consolation for the families of those poor little angels, we should be thankful that none of us live in communities where this is everyday (or even every year) news. We cannot wrap our children in cotton wool on the basis that it might happen again, somewhere in the world, one day in the maybe distant future; they must have the opportunity and enjoyment to actually be children. Yes, we can learn to take precautions and try our best to prevent something like this happening but we shouldn't do it to the extent that we scare children. [As a sidenote, I am interested in seeing the statistics which show the UK has had an alleged increase in violent crimes since the gun/firearms legislation changed following our own tragedy at Dunblane in 1996, especially bearing in mind that the UK has NEVER had the gun culture that America has. I'm more inclined to believe that if violent crime statistics have risen it's purely because more people report them now (I suspect such crimes as domestic violence and rape are to be found within the realm of violent crime, but I may be mistaken).]
I didn't want to read this thread. It is too incredibly sad and unthinkable. Death and funerals happen with children. I was a teacher for 20 years. I am at my grandkids school 3 days a week. They have a good security system, but not much is going to stop a madman. I don't understand the arguements here. Most posts are focusing on everything but simply mourning the loss of these innocent children. If you want to argue gun control, start a thread about it. But the anger between members regarding such a horrific act seems very childish. Everyone wants to be right. It isn't a contest. They are your opinions -- each are right or wrong. Can we put the arguing aside, pull together as a group and give the respect these children deserve? Pray, send positive energy, weep for the families who are burying their children.You don't know how much time this takes up with the admin team and rumor is, it won't take much more to close this down. Play nice. You are alive and can hug your children tonight.
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