can someone please give me some "male insight" or something LOL

[cariad]

frankswife & dear cariad - me love you long time!! Very well said.

Love ya, Richard! 

OK, so I did not stop reading this thread and heaven knows that if I read it, I'm probably going to comment.

GAH!!! Jen! The point of all of this piling on was not for you to internalize our rage, it was for you to *join* us in pinning the blame on the one who deserves it. Come on, I'm sure there's more that you haven't told us, spill it, vent it out, so long as you end it with "GOD, have you ever known such a bastard in all your life??!!" Seriously, you need to find your voice. Trust me, once you do that you won't recognise the person you'll become.

You are absolutely right, you cannot change what has already happened, but you can do as jbeany suggested and move forward by getting some help with your self-esteem. You are Jareth's mother. If you think you are nearly worthless, how is he going to feel about himself? Do you really think he can build self-worth if you are dissing his mom all the time? I know as a kid I was very sensitive to anyone demeaning my parents but it would have been really confusing if it had been coming from them, too. How does a kid reconcile that?

I agree with Richard completely that there is simply no one right way to be a parent, if there were then parenting would not be the hardest job in the whole wide world. You did the best you could and beating yourself up about what may or may not have been a mistake is of no service to Jareth or you. If you really don't think you can recognise where boundaries are, you need to work with someone in an emotionally neutral environment and learn what you will and will not tolerate. My brother-in-law had a lot of therapy and I remember being around him when he was still in the learning phase. He would actually start sentences with "I'm sorry but, well no, actually I'm not sorry...." because he was trying to break himself of his habit of apologizing for everything. What I think tends to happen - what certainly happened with me when I began to teach myself to stick up for myself - was that I went too far the other way and started looking for excuses to assert myself. That wasn't any good, either, but I feel I've found a middle ground only in the past year or so where I can calmly explain myself and I don't have to jump down anyone's throat to feel that I've proved to everyone and myself that I won't be walked on anymore.

Jen, it takes a fair measure of courage to put yourself out there as you've done, knowing that you are going to get a wide range of opinions about something so personal, and some people may be hostile (though thankfully that does not seem to have happened in this discussion). For whatever reason, and I cannot explain it, but participating in this discussion has made some issues in my life crystal clear to me. I have had two of the most intense discussions with my husband ever, and this morning I was able to state something very important to my mother and I feel so light after doing that. I don't know that it made any difference to her, but I do know she heard me and that I've voiced something that I have not been able to properly express until this morning. I feel I owe you a big thank you for taking this risk!

Gerald, I think most people would be proud to have their kid be like you (not to undermine your point) but I'm sorry that behind your success there is pain that most of us couldn't imagine in our worst nightmares. You are proof that it is possible to overcome the most dire of beginnings.
 

[MaryD]

Goth - you are NOT a shitty mother.  If you were you would not be having this conversation with us.  Everyone makes mistakes and you can only do the best you can do.  The best you can do at the moment is be looking out for a place, which you are already doing.  Hang in there.

[Gerald Lively]

A rule to live by!

Do not wallow in your mistakes or your grief.  Get moving.  Yesterday.

[Gerald Lively]

By Brian Alexander
NBC News
I thought it was just me. But according to a study published this month in the British Journal of Urology International by a University of California San Francisco urology resident named Herman Singh Bagga, an estimated 17,616 people wound up in U.S. emergency rooms between 2002 and 2012 because they caught their genitals, almost always penises, in zippers.
If you’re giggling right now, you’ve never done it.
And you’ve probably done it. Zipper injuries are the single most common cause of penile injury in adult men reporting to emergency rooms, Bagga explained in an interview, followed by bicycles. (In small boys, the most common cause of penile injury is a toilet seat slamming down when the child is urinating – “you’d be surprised how many little boys rest their penises on the rim,” Bagga said -- followed by zippers.)
OK, so it’s a little funny in a Three Stooges kind of way, but a careless zip of the pants can be serious. While permanent damage is rare, Bagga said, zipper entrapment has led to surgical intervention such as undesired circumcision. A more common consequence is infection.
Lots of bacteria can be found in that area, and if the skin breaks, “it’s important once you get it out from the zipper that it’s washed well, and you use a little antibiotic ointment. Keep an eye on it. That’s another reason to solicit medical attention.” In his study, which used data from the National Electronic Injury Surveillance System, Bagga and his co-authors found 11 cases of penile cellulitis (a bacterial skin infection) or abscesses.
Mainly, he said, “this is a pain issue. It can completely ruin your night.”
Bagga wanted to conduct the data analysis because, while there has been a developing body of literature on how to free a trapped penis – using everything from screw drivers to wire cutters -- many emergency department physicians don’t expect these cases and so don’t familiarize themselves with the techniques. Bagga confessed that he’s experienced the penis-zipper interaction and he suspected many more men did than is commonly appreciated.
“Nobody ever looked at it,” he said. “Our goal was to highlight the real incidence.”
Preventing penile entrapment by a zipper wasn’t an issue until 1913 when the modern zipper made trouser dentata common. Today, paying attention is the best way to prevent it. Wearing underwear helps, too.
In case of an unfortunate zip, Bagga advised, it’s best to try to free oneself gently by backing the zipper down. If that doesn’t work, don’t struggle. Head for the ER. And don’t be too embarrassed. You’re not alone.
Brian Alexander is co-author, with Larry Young Ph.D., of "The Chemistry Between Us: Love, Sex and the Science of Attraction,"now on sale.

[jbeany]

Zipper injuries are the single most common cause of penile injury in adult men reporting to emergency rooms,

I've lived my entire life without knowing that.  I would have been just as happy if I never had.   

[Riki]

Zipper injuries are the single most common cause of penile injury in adult men reporting to emergency rooms,

I've lived my entire life without knowing that.  I would have been just as happier if I never had.   

I thought it was funny, and it makes sense.. I don't have a penis, but I have caught my belly in zippers.. it's quite painful..

[Speedy1wrc]

I am puzzled?

Why so many injuries?

What happened to wearing underwear???

[gothiclovemonkey]

My grandma was a nurse, she said she once had a man come in, his penis was caught in his zipper... she also said that his unders were down to his ankles. sounds like someone was in a hurry to pull up the pants and zip it away.

[Riki]

I dated a guy once who told me he didn't like to wear underwear.  He said that he preferred to "free fall"  *LMAO*

[okarol]

Jenna's transplant coordinator just got married, for the first time, at age 43!
She said if she knew it could be this good she would have done it a long time ago.
But she said she had many practice boyfriends before she good truly recognize and appreciate a good one.
She said the difference is - being in love and being loved.
I thought that was worth repeating.

[RichardMEL]

Thanks Karol - that is a reminder of, or a pointer, to one version of a healthy relationship. Simple, but it says much. Sure I haven't been married (nobody has been THAT dumb to go near there with me!!!) but I sure have my own ideas and thoughts about what a real caring relationship should be. One key point to me that I have (personally) always felt when in a relationship with someone dear to me was that I knew it was so serious to me when I , without thinking, found that I put them ahead of me in my mind.. as in I was happy that their needs came first (yes ladies, you can read that on a number of levels..... ) but that it wasn't a forced act on my part it was just part of my love for someone so important to me, that it wasn't even a question. Now having said that it doesn't mean I was totally blind to flaws or issues and all that, and it didn't mean I wold just roll over and be a doormat either - relationships are about compromise and give and take as much as they are about love and devotion - I think a situation where it's skewed to one side (ie one gives most, one takes most) is unhealthy. Like Jenna's TC said (to paraphrase karol) it shouldn't be a chore but a pleasure. It's not Hollywood and not always roses and chocolates - hell no, but it doesn't have to be one sided where people feel so miserable, unwanted and stresse that they then close a zipper on their penis!!

sorry I had to find a way to transition there!!  As a man with...er... yes I havea penis, and I have pants with zips (and yes I do wear underwear ha ha) just once or twice has a near injury occured (and you can speculate all you like.. and hope you get a laugh doing so.. reality is most likely way different and boring to what you imagine!! LOL) but yes,, PAINFUL!!! I mean think about it - a male's penis, specially the head (and moreso in an uncircumcised male) is one of the most sensitive areas he has...  ladies with very sensitive nipples may also appreciate that to some degree... so yeah you cause damage to that pain can be severe.

This incidently is why I will never get a piercing or any of that in that region.... too much of a wuss for the pain and suffering! lol

OK yes TMI but that actually leads me to my final comment.....

As Cariad said before the penises and zippers got in the way - GLM has shown so much COURAGE to be so open about what is going on and sharing her pain/distress even her own feelings of shortcomings/confidence/self belief that that is actually a very positive thing and proof positive that you Jen are FAR from "worthless" or a "bad mother" or any of that. Half the problem with many out there is that they don't even recognise something is broken or that there is a problem.. they accept an abusive situation like that and it's just "normal" for them. You recognise on many levels no, it's not right... and you've opened yourself up to potential ridicule and certainly strongly worded opinions (born from the heart though) and the like. You (Jen) need to recognise that this is a very GOOD thing about yourself. It's a really strong step I think to finding your way through.

now all we need to do is engineer a zipper malfunction for PJ......... 

[gothiclovemonkey]

ive had my chest bits zipped up into a zipper... i had a swim suit with a zip front... ouch. major, and still have the scar!

[RichardMEL]

umm sorry to get off topic but..... a swimsuit with a zipper?!?! a metal zipper... in water, possibly salt? WTF?

that sounds really bad to me... and not just in respect of bits caught in it or not.....

[gothiclovemonkey]

yes, idk who came up with that idea. i disliked that suit very much. i still cringe when i zip lol

[Henry P Snicklesnorter]

.

[MooseMom]

I had a suit with a zipper in front.  Loved it.  No probs.

Boy, did this convo go off topic or what? 

[RichardMEL]

MM I am sure the zip allowed it come off oh so easily...... 

HPS - good point - I had not considered wetsuits and the like. I guess I had the image in my head of your "normal" swimming pool/beachwear and was trying to figure out why (apart from yes much easier to get on and off).

we now return you to GLM's quest for male help that does not involve zips, swimsuits or the like..

but as a final nod to the diversion I submit this classic scene from Babylon 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ykOTlc0TMU

(had to get my nerd in)

[gothiclovemonkey]

always a good time to get the nerd in!
<3 nerd love

i told him i didnt think this was working out, and all that...
strangely enough, me telling him that has gotten him to do some of the things i wanted in the first place... go figure...
doesnt really change things though, im still looking for a place.

my dad thinks i should give him another chance though... *shrugs* says he may actually mean it this time... i doubt though.

[jbeany]

NOOOO!  He doesn't mean squat, except to stall you into thinking he's going to change, so he continues to get what he wants!  Do not let anyone - him or your family - with "good intentions" make you forget what he's already done to you AND your son!  He's already messed with your son's head.  Do you really think that's going to change?

[RichardMEL]

like like like - both jbeany's comment and your (GLM) own understanding that yeah he is making some token gestures but yeah we all know the chances of him being a changed and better person are about as much as me wearing a swimsuit with a zip.....

I am glad your eyes are open to what the deal is.

I hope you told your Dad he had "another chance" and then another, and still more already.

[Ladystardust24]

I can relationship wise, a lot of stuff comes from unrealistic social expectations. Be it from what we "think" romance/love is. To what we "should" feel/it should be.
 
Part of it is pre-conceived gender roles. Without going into too much detail...

Part of a relation, is not just compromise, but also maintaining individuality. Like, despite that DJ and I both love video games, we occasionally have different tastes in games. I suck at math, besides odd things like the Fibonacci Sequence that calms me down, and I love. Mostly, I am a literature person. He is, not *as* much.

Because of certain aspects of our relationship, I at times have to be painfully clear to DJ about what I want, when I want it, and how. In a way, society generally feels that it's not a "woman's place" to dictate. But say, we've been with each other long enough, that certain things he knows. Because he's learned. But, he'll still ask if it's okay.
 
In general, I think it's a bit warped in a way to basically constantly dismiss something as a "typical" male/female behavior.

Some could say DJ being unable to right away realize I need a hug is a 'typical male thing" and most men are uncomfortable with emotions. (And yet, at the same time often men who are emotional are somehow also "lacking")

So yeah, sometimes I need to make it as blunt as possible what my basic need is. Otherwise, he will not know what to do, and he just knows something is off but will get overwhelmed and frustrated trying to figure out on his own what it is I need.
 
I think both people need to make their intentions/needs/wants clear. If it's something that bothers you, and makes you feel less loved/desired/wanted... ECT whatever. It's important. It's something you need. People here can relate. If someone could not accept the medical package that comes along with being with you, then how could you possibly stay with that person? This is a part of your life.

I just think often, especially in our cases, we believe it's so hard to find someone who will accept the medical part, that once someone accepts the medical part of us, or say "the broken parts" that we should keep on to them. Because it is harder in a way to find someone who will accept you as a whole. But it's not "impossible".

For myself, sometimes that's still a thing. It's a insecurity I deal with, and work on. But for the most part, I learned, if someone cannot accept me as a whole, they just don't deserve my time.

"We accept the love we think we deserve"

And you deserve good and happy things. You deserve to feel beautiful and wanted and loved. It's your birthright.

My personal belief is, for everything I do for my body, for all the things it's been through, for me not to live my life the way I see fit, for me not to take opportunity at happiness, is simply unfair. I work very hard for this body and to have this life. Simply, to be alive. And I'm not planning to spend it on those who cannot appreciate that.

(Oh and on the topic of zippers... funny story I have this top, that has a lot of zippers. It's a corset type of top, thus one time I hurt my top bits. Ow.
 

[gothiclovemonkey]

Its over with as of today.

[Deanne]

 

[cariad]

Sorry, glm. It's the right thing to do but I know that doesn't stop it hurting.

[gothiclovemonkey]

i cant stop crying i can barely breathe i just want today to go away
im hurting so bad right now
ive never felt this much pain in my life
im never doing this again