can someone please give me some "male insight" or something LOL

[Speedy1wrc]

Wow, you asked for "male insight" and holy cow I bet you are thinking you got more than you asked for!

[noahvale]

*

 

[gothiclovemonkey]

forgive my previous post, i was rather upset at the doctor for thinkning that i need drugs for depression...
yes i have depression, yeah, ive struggled with it, and i have had some break downs, but you know what, ive been without meds for years now and doing just fine, maybe even better than fine. i havent self injured in a very long time, and im not on anything. they just want to drug people...

Anyway, i used to see a therapist,and it got me no where, so why waste the time and money? i have been in therapy since i was 11 years old, and i really do think its a waste of time. i cant open up to them. seems every time i ever have opened up, they have admitted me into the psych ward. no thanks.

[Speedy1wrc]

I've always been against drugs that are used to alter your head. I personally feel they just muddle things up. I just saw today a report suggesting that they are a bad idea to give to kids As a society we have become accustomed too doing so too often.

My parents sent me to a counselor when I was a young kid. I was bored and getting into trouble. I told him what he wanted to hear and figured out that was the fastest and easiest way to get out of having to go. Then I figured out that if I could outsmart the counselor I wasn't so bad off after all. That was where I jump started my rebound and figured out what I was capable of doing on my own. Kind of left me cynical of any sort of behavioral specialist by whatever name they choose to go by.

I learned way back then that first and foremost I need to just have faith in myself and everything else really didn't matter. Vous faire confiance!

[gothiclovemonkey]

I hate when i give people the benifit of the doubt, and they screw up only a few days later... wow.

really??
Ok, so idk maybe i am being a bitch about this? he does work swing shift, im sure he is tired... but he could have easily came in and woke me up? he wanted to make it up to me, so i thought maybe he meant it... guess who missed the bus again? and guess who had to take him again.... luckily this time, i woke up and he wasnt late for school, just missed the bus.
i learned my lesson there. from now on i will get up no matter what he says.
am i wrong for being mad? he worked all night... maybe i shouldnt be mad about it? but why not wake me up?? if you know your too tired? but now that ive come back home, hes watching tv... just heard him change the channel...
smh

i cant wait until april at this point.

[frankswife]

GLM, You're STILL making excuses for him. No, you're not being a bitch. All you want is for someone, anyone, to validate you. You want one of us to say it really is ok to stay with him, and he really does love you, and it will all work out. But I cant say it and I don't think anyone else here will either. The bottom line is YOU know that none of this is ok. It's that simple. You know that what you have is not a relationship. It's a burden. It's another thing you don't need. We can hash this over and over and go around and around and we will still keep coming back to the same place. The one thing you can count on with this guy is that you cant count on him. Please, GLM, stop expecting things from him you are JUST NOT GOING TO GET. He is what he is. If what he is isnt what you want, then look elsewhere. God bless and good luck to you and your son.

[gothiclovemonkey]

thank you
i know i really do, and i do know i need to stop making excuses for everyone. i still believe that part of this IS my fault, i should have said something sooner i guess, but you know, i have tried, and i realize that every time i do, he says he doesnt wanna talk about it.. so it isnt for my lack of at least trying.
i know i need to start being more assertive and letting people know when im angry, but that isnt easy and for me to be shot down when i do just makes it all that much harder.

i still dont know that this is what i want, i still want this to work between us, but i know that it wont. isnt that weird?
I THINK i experienced a bit of that jealousy stuff ,everyone always talks about, today. I was reading about how some caregivers did this or that for a loved one, and i was thinking, damn, i cant even ask him to take out the trash without getting an eye roll, and heaven forbid i ask him to make something simple for dinner, or even stir what ive already made, without it seeming to be a huge task for him... Like yesterday, after i came home from dialysis, he mentioned how hungry he was, and whats for dinner? I said, we can heat up the left over chili. About 30 mins later he said again how hungry he is, i said well go heat up the chili... he said his foot was asleep..... oook, sorry? i ignored it (usually id get up and do it, but honestly didnt feel that great, dialysis had sucked..) so a while later he got up and made himself a bowl.
Normally, i cook, and i serve him his plate too, so i was a little annoyed that he didnt return that favor, but whatever. its trivial. just made me think about all of the wonderful caregivers i read about here, and how they do so much and sometimes put up with so much, and are still there holding the persons hand every day, or how my dad was for my mom, not many people like that in the world today, at least not in my generation....... i think thats jealousy, isnt it? *shrug*
anyway,
i want to thhank you all for being honest with your opinions to me, i do appreciate that. i think your all right. except the part about me being needy... i dont need it, i wanted it. i think there is a difference lol

i called my dad, asked him to bring me the local paper when he comes. looking for a place, figure thats the best place for us, that way if i need help its at least in the same town lol
idk if i like the idea of traveling that far for appointments and stuff, i love my new drs here, but i gotta do what i gotta do lol

le sigh

[MooseMom]

GLM, You're STILL making excuses for him. No, you're not being a bitch. All you want is for someone, anyone, to validate you. You want one of us to say it really is ok to stay with him, and he really does love you, and it will all work out. But I cant say it and I don't think anyone else here will either. The bottom line is YOU know that none of this is ok. It's that simple. You know that what you have is not a relationship. It's a burden. It's another thing you don't need. We can hash this over and over and go around and around and we will still keep coming back to the same place. The one thing you can count on with this guy is that you cant count on him. Please, GLM, stop expecting things from him you are JUST NOT GOING TO GET. He is what he is. If what he is isnt what you want, then look elsewhere. God bless and good luck to you and your son.

Frankswife has pretty much summed it up.

GLM, it really isn't worth it to assign fault or blame, whether it is to ourselves or to someone else.  None of us are perfect, we all make mistakes and so relationships become rocky at times.  Words like "fault" and "blame" never help.

It's fine that you wanted rather than needed this relationship, but there is nothing wrong with needing your partner/spouse once you have found him/her.

What you were feeling was envy, not jealousy.  It's not that you don't want others to have loving caregivers, rather, you just want that for yourself.  Who wouldn't?  We are all "caregivers".  You're a caregiver for your son, aren't you?  And should you marry one day, you will give care to your husband, right?  Even though I'm the one with ESRD, I do a HELL of a lot in giving care to my husband.

No, it is not weird at all that you want it to work but know that it won't.  Sometimes one needs a bit of space between the time you realize it won't work to the time that you do something about it.  That's where YOU are right now. 

[Deanne]

Did you look online for new places? You might find more there than in a newspaper these days. Maybe by looking you'll start to feel excited about starting a new life instead of dreading leaving your old life. You and your son will likely be happier in the long run.

Your son is watching. He sees how your BF is treating you and he's learning to treat women the same way. If you're having a hard time with this for yourself, think about what you want for your son. Do you want him to be an adult who supports his partner, or be a self-centered little boy for his entire life?

[MooseMom]

You're right, Deanne!  Her son is watching.  That's a very good point, and thanks for making it.

[gothiclovemonkey]

thats one big part of why i decided to go. i dont want jareth to be like that, or to think its ok. hes already starting, by making messes, and not cleaning up after himself, expects me to do it ... thats going to stop!

[CebuShan]

If you won't think of yourself, then think about your SON! Is this the male role model you want for him? Is this the way you want him to treat women? Children do learn what they live.

[RichardMEL]

Damn if this was facebook I'd be clicking LIKE LIKE LIKE on so many of these posts I'd have RSI!

So many good points.

and GLM sorry hun but your last post involving your story of the "Chilli Chore" (as I'll call it) is a glaring example right there of just how selfish he is. Wow, so it's your job to come home, let alone you had D and it kicked you around(we've ALL been there!) and he just expects you to oh yes serve him on his plate (in front of the TV I guess?) poor Homer's foot is asleep. Heavens!! His Majesty may work swing shifts and all that, but even the most useless male (ie: me!) can heat up something that's made or nuke some soup in a microwave or make 2 minute noodles or use the toaster!!! oh wait, you are supposed to do the grocery shopping too?!

The thing about Jareth  missing the school bus again is this - ok he worked the night shift, but I ask you this as it wasnt clear to me - did he SAY or lead you to expect that he would make sure J got off in time? If he did shame on him (but then again the old saying holds true here-"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on ME." Or did you hope that he would look after it 0 with his past performance in such a role either option was a bad one I think. As you say, you (sadly) have to make sure you are up and ensure Jareth gets off to school. end of story. YOU CAN NOT RELY ON YOUR "PARTNER" FOR *ANYTHING*

I am glad you are understanding this more and more and as much as you want to make "it" work I think it's so broken that it can't ever. He has no real motivation to change his ways and no real insight into how damaging his behaviour is.. and you seem too easily to fall into this situation of accepance because you still want to try and make it work because you love him.

I don't know what your definition of love is, but by mine he sure as hell doesn't show in any meaningful way that I can tell from what you've posted over the past few years (admittely we only read when you're unhappy with things) that he loves you at all.. indeed it's hard to tell if he even cares about you unless the dinner isn't made. oh from time to time I note he utters nice sounding words but at this point there's words, and there's actions. His actions in no way back up any words in my view.. which makes his promises to be hollow.

I hate to say this and sound so horrible and cruel but I really think he needs a really rude wake up call - and by that I mean you gone and he has to figure life out for himself, feed himself, clean his own clothes, pay his own bills etc etc etc... being like that MAY help at least some of his issues in terms of a dependency on others - or maybe not.

sigh.

[gothiclovemonkey]

i had a heart to heart with him yesterday, and i honestly think hes depressed... not an excuse, but some of the things he said made me think he is.
i asked why it seems as though hes a totally different person than the one i met, he said he was trying to change, this isnt his "first rodeo" Apparently, hes always acted this way... He had a 2 yr relationship with "the sweetest most kind woman" and it ended due to the same reasons...
he said he didnt want to be the way he is, so he does try for a short while, but ends up right back to this (i can say, that is true... he will try, for a short while)
He agrees that it isnt fair to me and that he does think i try way harder than he does. He always says "ill work on it" and he does, for a minute lol I told him that if we dont work out, that next time he tries to date, dont pretend to be something you arent, because you will more likely find someone who can put up with all of that. if hed been who he is now, when we started dating, this probably wouldnt even be an issue. i would have known how he truly is.
he said hed love nthing more to come home from work and do absolutely nothing but lay on the couch... he also said he doesnt care if the world ends tomorrow.... and that jareth and i are the only reason he goes to work at all. (doesnt that sound like depression??)

[Desert Dancer]

(doesnt that sound like depression??)

Sure it sounds like depression. Or manipulation. Or you making excuses for him. How will he ever change and grow as a human being in his own right if you refuse to allow him to accept the consequences of his behavior? True and lasting change will only happen if he's allowed to hit rock bottom, relationship-wise. That may mean he'll need to wake up one day and realize he's all alone and it's his own fault. If you continue to put up with his shit then, really, what incentive does he have to change? None whatsoever. He's got things just the way he wants them: him on the couch being whiny and hurtful, you doing all the work while he keeps you emotionally off-balance and easy to manipulate.

"You and Jareth are the only reason I... blah, blah, blah". Well, isn't that a nice convenient guilt trip, throws the responsibility for HIS emotional state right back at you. You aren't responsible for making him happy. You can't make him happy, hardworking or any other thing. That has to come from within and he's not willing to do the work, not for real, not for keeps. He makes just enough superficial effort to string you along and buy himself another couple months till your next 'heart-to-heart'. I've seen that pattern re-play with him just in the couple years you and I have been here at IHD.

Someone else here had a good point: do you really want Jareth growing up thinking this is how women are supposed to be treated? If nothing else, think about whether you want Jareth's future wife to be treated like a doormat.

Sorry to jump in here with my unvarnished bluntness but I've been down this road myself. You deserve a whole lot better and he needs to grow the hell up. Do you really envision yourself in this kind of one-sided, tumultuous relationship for the next 40 years? Do you really think he's a 'lifetime' partner? Because it sounds to me like he came into your life for a reason or a season and that period has come to an end. Trying to force him into a role in your life he was never meant to play is only going to bring you further pain, and is going to prevent him from feeling the pain necessary to effect real change in himself.

Just my two cents.

[gothiclovemonkey]

I think it does make an great point, about my son. And no, I dont want him to think that is acceptable.
Yes, I make many excuses for him, but one thing that keeps popping into my head is that he does want to be with me, or he wouldnt be saying the things he does to try to get me to stay, even if he doesnt carry it out... so i do feel badly that im not trying harder... but i just cant. if he cant step up, i cant continue to allow this.
And, thursday, he asked jareth, "Hypothetically, if you and mommy moved back to tuscola with grandpa, and you never saw me again, would you be upset?"  Of course my son said yes, he loves pj and wishes he was his real daddy.... and asked him why he said that. Pj said "because thats what mommy is thinking of doing... Just kidding!!" And my son said, "I know... hehe and walked away"... Pj turns to me and says, "see, now you cant leave".  * my jaw drop*  WHAAAAAAAAA the hell just happened?!?!?!?! Did that really just happen?? What the hell man!
How could I have put myself, and my son in this position? How can I break his heart like that? It just made this even harder... How am I going to do this now???


I told him when we talked that I dont see this lasting forever, and that i think we both want different things. I do eventually want a husband, and a family type family lol (i mean, i want us to do things together as a family, besides just watching tv...) I do want a man who is attracted to me and wants to have some romance occasionally. I want someone who i can rely on, and trust. And someone who will respect me as much as i respect them, in all ways. someone who will be by my side, and/or even behind me 'kicking my butt' when i need it lol same as i would be for them...
i dont see that ever happening with him. Unfortunately.

I understand him more now, knowing that he was trying to be "a better person" when we met, but he didnt continue that trend, instead he fell back to his usual way... he claims this has happened in every relationship hes been in, and he usually gives up. he says he wants to change, he just gets too lazy.
He said also, he didnt think hed have to take an 'active role' in jareths life, and that the way he was raised his first step dad was very abusive to him, his second one was rather mean, and ifnored him or yelled at him. And that in his family, the woman does all the house stuff, and child rearing, etc, so all he should have to do is work and come home and be catered to..... Which is all fine and dandy, IF i could do that for him, id love to be able to live like we are still in the 50s, but we arent, and I need help... I cant clean up after everyone, all the time, especially right now...
I dont feel like i can be that person for him, ive tried for a little over a year, and im worn out. I do love him, but i think its best that we end it now, before it becomes something sour. As I told him, id much rather have a friend, than an enemy.

Now im just left with where to go and what to do now... Reguardless, i have to wait until at least april, when the lease is up. But I like my drs, and the school here for jareth, but i know i cant do this completely alone, so being close to my dad at least would be much better idea... its a tough choice there! And of course, dealing with how its going to effect Jareth...
If he'd only been honest from the begininng, and actually thought about what we were getting into.... this wouldnt even be an issue.

[frankswife]

OMG, what he did to your son is horrible. To manipulate the situation by using the child is beyond sleazy. It is not flattering, and it doesn't show he loves or wants you. It shows he doesn't care a hoot for your son. Look, GLM, I will say it again, he is what he is. Either you take him as he is and accept everything about it and live with it, or you dont. You CANT make it into what you want. I hope you don't get upset by my saying all this, I just hate seeing you going through this and what he said to your son really pissed me off.

[cariad]

All right, I was going to keep out of this because I feel like in being blunt and honest I tend to be interpreted as being cruel and aggressive, but this is the limit.

Jen, he is using your son, not his, as a weapon against you. (I am not saying it is right when biological parents do this, but he has truly stepped up the insantiy of this with his actions.) He has breached the boundaries of decency, spitting upon your authority as a mother to decide how Jareth is spoken to and treated. I did a little experiment with my son Aidan, a precocious 10-year old. I used as close to the same words as you wrote that PJ did as possible, changing the names for friends we have in the UK who will eventually have to move back to America for work.

The results: Aidan *did not know* what hypothetically meant, which leads me to suspect that Jareth doesn't either and this just engendered real fear in him that this was going to happen. Aidan did not tell me he did not understand the word, he just answered honestly and I had to ask if he even understood the question. His response to 'would you be upset?' was 'yeah, a little' and these are not even good friends of his. Their oldest child is only 7, so it's not like he would be missing some fantastic friendship, it's just the loaded phrase 'you never saw them again' that made it upsetting even for people he simply enjoys seeing but doesn't really think about when they are not there. What PJ did would not make it harder for me to decide to quit the relationship, to the contrary, it would give me the final push to end it and not look back.

I think I can answer your earlier question regarding why people keep saying that you need rather than want this person: because that is how you are acting. If a boyfriend had said this to one of my kids, he would be given a matter of hours to pack and get out of my sight. Have you ever investigated the condition of co-dependency? My understanding is that someone who fits that description is someone who becomes addicted to troubled people and endlessly working on their problems, essentially making everyone else's issues and struggles one's own. I am not trying to diagnose you nor be in any way insulting, I just think there is something much more here than just 'wanting' this relationship and that was what this situation brings to mind for me. You could remain friends with him and get everything you're getting out of the relationship now, minus the stupidity.

I absolutely adored every word that Desert Dancer wrote. Bang-on from start to finish. Please read it, then re-read it, then take what she's said in the spirit of trying to help a friend come to her senses.

Good luck, hun! You can do this. You can stand up for yourself and for your son. 

[MooseMom]

GLM, the bottom line is that this is not about him anymore, rather, it is about you.

PJ is not gonig to "grow up" any time soon.  He knows it and has even told you so.  He has willingly given you all of the information you need to make a decision.  He has not hidden anything from you.  He has been remarkably honest.  Unfortunately, this honesty came rather late.

You are not responsible for fixing him.

Now it is time for you to take responsibility for your own life.  You've moaned and groaned, and we have all moaned and groaned right along with you, about how this guy won't take responsibility.  Well, that's his problem.  YOU have to take responsibility now.  You are not powerless.

Furthermore, you have allowed this idiot to manipulate your son.  Sure, leaving the idiot will have an affect on Jareth, but staying with the idiot will, too, so along which of these two roads do you really wish to drag your son?  Kids are resilient.  Just because Jareth says he loves PJ and will miss him does not mean that leaving PJ is going to kill him.  He will survive.  Which would be worst, Jareth being sad for a month or so, or Jareth observing and learning how his mother is being manipulated, lied to, let down and degraded by PJ?  At what point will Jareth begin hating PJ for the way he treats you?  At what point will PJ lose all respect for both you and PJ?

April is not that far away, so start making plans now. 

GLM, what PJ said to your son is the final straw.  That's it.  It's done.   

[Gerald Lively]

Words seldom produce the desired result; it is action time.

[Emerson Burick]

what in the heck am i supposed to do or think?

He sounds like a dipshit and a flake. You should drop him like a bad habit because he drives you insane. You know the relationship is doomed because you guys have already broken up several times. You can't fix this guy. Ditch him and move on with your life.

[frankswife]

I gotta know, did he REALLY use the word "hypothetically" with your little boy?

[WishIKnew]

I've tried to stay out of this because I'm not a male and because I have pretty strong opinions about this.  I do not wish to be harsh or insensitive.

GLM - you're getting a lot of attention and a lot of REALLY good advice here.  It all comes back to you.  You have to believe in yourself enough to make the changes that you know are necessary.  Time will pass no matter what you do.  Next St. Patty's Day will you be settled into a different home with Jareth and moving in the direction you want your lives to be, or will you be adding additional frustrations, excuses, and examples to this thread?  You are the protagonist in your story.  Start a new chapter. 

[Desert Dancer]

And, thursday, he asked jareth, "Hypothetically, if you and mommy moved back to tuscola with grandpa, and you never saw me again, would you be upset?"  Of course my son said yes, he loves pj and wishes he was his real daddy.... and asked him why he said that. Pj said "because thats what mommy is thinking of doing... Just kidding!!" And my son said, "I know... hehe and walked away"... Pj turns to me and says, "see, now you cant leave".

Yeah, you see this right here? That's IT. He's DONE. And if it were me he'd be lucky I didn't either lay him out with the first heavy object I could find or 'accidentally' heave bump him out a ten-story window. This shit of trying to screw with YOUR CHILD'S HEAD in order to control you is utterly and incontrovertibly out-of-bounds.

I do wish to be harsh and insensitive here, because if you can't see your path laid out like Swarovski crystals at your feet after what he did - not said - DID to Jareth, then something needs to jolt you. He just abused your son. Mentally, emotionally abused your son. He's moved on now. He's starting in on head games with your young son 'cause you've gotten too easy and it's no fun any more. What else will he do to Jareth in the years to come? Isn't this bad enough? You have got to step up and start taking action for his sake if not your own.

Cariad has an excellent point about co-dependency and it might be worthwhile for you to find a meeting or read some literature. I can recommend some EXCELLENT books that really saved my life and my sanity at times in my last marriage. Like cariad, I'm not making an internet diagnosis here but I'll tell you I used to be co-dependent and I recognize the symptoms and leave it at that.

One more thing cariad had right: please take this in the spirit of a friend trying to help a friend come to their senses. I found myself in this exact situation 16 years ago with my very best friend Annie. Everyone could see - everyone except her. When push came to shove she turned her back on all of her friends who tried to say something to her, and dragged her young children into a lion's den with her. I don't know how it all turned out, though it isn't hard to imagine given that he was physically abusive to her and her children almost from the beginning. To this day it makes me cry for my lost friend. I don't care to watch it happen again in slow motion with you.

[jbeany]

GLM, read through the two lists below.  Be honest with yourself and count off the ones that apply to you as you read through them.

8 things that happen in a good relationship -
1.  Negotiation and Fairness - both partners seek mutually satisfying resolutions to conflict, accept change, and are willing to compromise
2.  Non-threatening Behavior - both partners talk and act in a way that they both feel safe and comfortable expressing themselves and doing things.
3.  Respect - both partners listen non-judgmentally, are affirming emotionally, and value the other partner's opinion
4.  Trust and Support - both support the other partner's goals in life, and believe the other has a right to personal feelings, friends, and activities.
5.  Honesty and Accountability - both accept responsibility for themselves, their actions, and admit when they are wrong
6.  Responsible Parenting - both share parental responsibility and are actively a good role model for the children
7.  Shared Responsibility - both partners mutually agree on a fair distribution of work and make household and family decisions together
8.  Economic Partnership - both partners make money decisions together and make sure that both partners benefit from any financial decisions.

8 things that happen in a bad relationship -

1.  Using Emotional Abuse - One partner puts the other down, makes the other feel bad about him or herself, makes him or her think she's crazy, plays mind games, humiliates the other, or makes the other feel guilty.
2.  Minimizing, Denying and Blaming - One partner makes light of any physical or emotional abuse and refuses to take the partner's concerns about it seriously, and may say the other partner caused it.
3.  Using "Male Privilege"   - One partner treats the other as a servant, acts like the "master of the castle" and defines the household roles.
4.  Using Children - One partner makes the other feel guilty about the children and the effect ending the relationship will have on them, may use the children to relay messages between the partners, emotionally "over-shares" with the children in a way inappropriate for their age level.
5.  Using Coercion and Threats - One partner repeatedly threatens to leave, does leave and returns repeatedly, threatens to commit suicide.
6.  Using Economic Abuse - One partner controls the family funds, giving an "allowance", taking the partner's money, or restricts the other partner's knowledge of the household finances.
7.  Using Isolation - One partner tries to control the other by limiting where the other goes, who the other sees or talks to, limits outside activities, and uses jealousy as the excuse.
8.  Using Intimidation - One partner uses looks, actions, gestures to make the other afraid - may destroy property, display weapons, or abuse pets.

Most of this information is from the Domestic Abuse Intervention Project.  Abusive does NOT only mean he hits you.  If you've got more in common with the second list (and from the descriptions in this post, I'd say you do) - it's time to wake up, get up, and get the hell out.