Is there a list anywhere of foods we should avoid completely?Starfruit! That is the only one I know of that you must avoid completely!
Angie, That's interesting about the starfruit. What's in it that's so bad? I've got a lot of advice about things to avoid, but I'd never heard this about starfruit. I think I've only tasted a starfruit once, but I'd better stay away from them from now on.
Grapefruit and Dialysis Patients (http://www.renaldiseases.org/dialysis/1182.html) < This is a link.
There is a growing body of evidence that shows grapefruit juice interacts with many of the medications that dialysis patients are prescribed.
DO NOT drink grapefruit juice if you take any of these medications. If you aren't sure if you take any of these medications, ask your doctor or pharmacist.
- Blood pressure lowering agents (calcium channel blockers)
- Persenadine
- Sedatives (benzodiazepines)
- Estrogens
- Quinidine
- Saquinavir
- Cholesterol lowering agents (statins)
- Cyclosporin (immunosuppressants)
Thanks for the list Angie, that is exactly what I have been looking for.. ;DThanks :) It took awhile to build up that list but I thought .. might as well be thorough ;)
Also a huge thanks for the starfruit warning, I didn't know anything about that..
I still don't know what a starfruit is :-\
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carambola
I think we need to get that list and the starfruit warning stickied, very good information...
Angie, Thanks so much for that list, it must have taken you quite a while to put it together. I think that's so interesting about the starfruit. Who would have guessed? Thanks for the info!Thank you and I agree! Hey Epoman, can this be stickied?
I think we need to get that list and the starfruit warning stickied, very good information...
On a side note, I see those starfruits at the supermarket a-lot and have wondered what they taste like, glad I never tried one.. ;D
Sticky-edThanks Rerun ;D
Sticky-edThanks Rerun ;D
Well, that is why you have moderators right? :clap; ;D :thx;Sticky-edThanks Rerun ;D
Thanks Rerun, sorry Angie I just saw this thread now and your request for a sticky. I would have stickied it I didn't see your request. Next time shoot me a PM and I'll be sure to receive it. :)
Didnt bother with banana either, as I can never stop at just a half a banana.
Didnt bother with banana either, as I can never stop at just a half a banana.
I will eat the other half. Just pass it here. :P ;D
Didnt bother with banana either, as I can never stop at just a half a banana.
I will eat the other half. Just pass it here. :P ;D
That is another reason why I dont buy them, my other half doesnt like them, makes him sick he said. Not to mention they are still $15 a kilo!!! >:(
Wow that is insanely expensive!Didn't bother with banana either, as I can never stop at just a half a banana.
I will eat the other half. Just pass it here. :P ;D
That is another reason why I don't buy them, my other half doesn't like them, makes him sick he said. Not to mention they are still $15 a kilo!!! >:(
$15.00 a kilo for bananas! Around here they're usually 0.50/pound (about $1.10 per kilo). You're in Australia, right? I would think with the tropical climate they would be cheaper.
I like bananas when they just start to develop those dark brown patches because that is when they are the sweetest. But, even I can't eat to many. Usually not more then one or two whole bananas a day.Man ....... I am jealous :( My heart would freak if I even had 3/4 of one :(
$15.00 a kilo for bananas! Around here they're usually 0.50/pound (about $1.10 per kilo). You're in Australia, right? I would think with the tropical climate they would be cheaper.
Wow that is insanely expensive!
Damn, i remember the days when i would eat me a banana covered with peanut butter, i can just imagine what would happen if i ate that now (shivers at the thought) ::)Aww man now I want one :( And I have never had them together before ... but you always want what you can't have right? ;)
I cut a small wedge down the length of a banana and fill it with peanut butter. Dont mind it on a sandwhich together either. Peanut butter is also nice spread in a celery stick.I wanted one til you mentioned celery ;) lol I have never liked celery :P
I cut a small wedge down the length of a banana and fill it with peanut butter. Dont mind it on a sandwhich together either. Peanut butter is also nice spread in a celery stick.I wanted one til you mentioned celery ;) lol I have never liked celery :P
I cut a small wedge down the length of a banana and fill it with peanut butter. Dont mind it on a sandwhich together either. Peanut butter is also nice spread in a celery stick.I wanted one til you mentioned celery ;) lol I have never liked celery :P
Oh really? Its good trust me! ;D
Hell yeah it's good! I also like Celery with a spread of creme cheese with a sprinkle of chili powder added. YUMMY!
No dried fruit - it's got tremendous amounts of potassium - for some reason nearly triple what the fresh fruit version has..Wow I didn't know that :o
No dried fruit - it's got tremendous amounts of potassium - for some reason nearly triple what the fresh fruit version has.
Chocolate and dark colas are high in phosphates.
The website called Kidney School has got a module about diet and nutrtion. It's a pain that they won't let you skip ahead without answering the questions, but when you get to the end, they have long lists of foods that are good for a renal diet and sample menus you can print out.
Here is a quick reply from the newbie.VERY true about Starfruit! And VERY good post! Thanks for that! :thx; :clap; :2thumbsup;
On Starfruit...Starfruit contains a neurotoxin. People with compromised kidney function/kidney failure are not able to rid/clear the blood of this toxin and it can cause anything from hiccups to cardiac arrest. Reported deaths were of those people who drank the juice of this fruit (a high concentration). A nibble may not hurt you, but it is not recommended. I wouldn't want to put myself at risk. It is often used as a garnish in salads and in drinks. Looks like a star when you slice it.
Dried fruit like fruit juice of high and low potassium fruits is highly concentrated and will be high in potassium. There are juices like apple or cranberry that are better choices, but portion size is the key.
~A ;D
Angie, didn't you post a good find on starfruit here before?Yes Jeff .. in this very thread (http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=1216.msg14531#msg14531) :P lol
Angie, didn't you post a good find on starfruit here before?Yes Jeff .. in this very thread (http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=1216.msg14531#msg14531) :P lol
I'm sure most of us have heard this report before, but good as a reminder to post here...
Dialysis patients need to be alerted to a possible danger from eating star fruit.
An article in Nephrol Dial Transplant (1998) suggested that star fruit contains "an excitator neurotoxin" and has been linked with death in some dialysis patients and in those with renal insufficiency. The elliptical-shaped tropical fruit is connected with a variety of toxic episodes.Quotea total of 32 uraemic patients who had ingested star fruit. Before the intoxication episodes, 20 patients were on regular haemodialysis, eight were on peritoneal dialysis and four were not yet undergoing dialysis. Two patients were analysed retrospectively from their charts, 17 were directly monitored by our clinic and 13 were referred by physicians from many areas throughout the country, allowing us to follow their outcome from a distance. Intoxicated patients were given different therapeutic approaches (haemodialysis, peritoneal dialysis and supportive treatment), and their outcomes were analysed.
Results. The most common symptoms were persistent and intractable hiccups in 30 patients (93.75%), vomiting in 22 (68.7%), variable degrees of disturbed consciousness (mental confusion, psychomotor agitation) in 21 (65.6%), decreased muscle power, limb numbness, paresis, insomnia and paresthesias in 13 (40.6%) and seizures in seven (21.8%). Patients who were promptly treated with haemodialysis, including those with severe intoxication, recovered without sequelae. Patients with severe intoxication who were not treated or treated with peritoneal dialysis did not survive.
Conclusions. Haemodialysis, especially on a daily basis, is the ideal treatment for star fruit intoxication. In severe cases, continuous methods of replacement therapy may provide a superior initial procedure, since rebound effects are a common event. Peritoneal dialysis is of no use as a treatment, especially when consciousness disorders ensue.
I avoid diet sodas like the plague. Especially anything that contains the artificial sweeteners acesulfame potassium or sucralose (Splenda). I've noticed that whenever I take anything with one or two of those, I get a sweet taste in my mouth that does NOT go away until I dialyze. I'm assuming that it probably hangs out in my blood stream. I know for a fact that neither are metabolized by the body. So there's a good chance that within the No Pee Society, when we ingest these, they stay in our blood stream till we dialyze. I'm thinking that that can't be good.This is some good advice!
I also know that 10% of the aspartame you ingest is metabolized into methanol in the body.
Overall I think artificial sweeteners are scary, I just avoid them.
What about white chocolate? Can I eat this when I really need a chocolate fix? :-\ ( with binders of course :P)
Caramel, cream soda, and others
Just another good reason to watch your phosphorus levels!!
What about white chocolate? Can I eat this when I really need a chocolate fix? :-\ ( with binders of course :P)
What about white chocolate? Can I eat this when I really need a chocolate fix? :-\ ( with binders of course :P)
White chocolate isn't actually chocolate, Also it is roughly the same in PO4 and K. Might as well go for the chocolate since its roughly the same.
White chocolate 1 ounce, 54mg PO4, 96 mg K
Reg. chocolate 1 ounce, 58mg PO4, 105 mg K
Just to add my 2 cents to the phosphorus talk ... the extra calcium can also create deposits in the breasts (ladies), which will cause concerns in a mammogram. That's why I had to have a breast biopsy last year. The calcifications show up on the mammogram and raise all kinds of red flags that it could be pre-cancerous.
This is from Renal Dietary guidelines at http://www.tarcweb.org/tarcweb/diet.asp
Some food items listed below may not seem so high in phosphorus. For example, 12 ounces
of cola beverage contributes 50 mg of phosphorus. However this really can add to your total
daily phosphorus intake and not leave room for essential food items such as animal protein foods.
Compare cola to a similar food item such as 12 ounces of cream soda, which won't contribute any
phosphorus.
You know all this I am sure, but since Jenna never had high phosphorus, and I had never heard of binders until i came to IHD, I am posting it.
It's from http://www.healthopedia.com/diet-for-kidney-disease/
Phosphorus
The kidneys play an important role in balancing the phosphorus and calcium in the body. When a person has kidney disease, the phosphorus from food may build up in the blood. Too much phosphorus in the blood pulls calcium from the bones. Losing calcium makes the bones weak and more likely to break. Also, too much phosphorus may make the skin itch. The following foods are high in phosphorus and need to be restricted:
~ cola drinks
~ milk and cheese
~ nuts and peanut butter
~ peas
Most people on dialysis also need to take a phosphate binder to control the phosphorus in their blood between dialysis sessions. These medications act like sponges to soak up, or bind, phosphorus while it is in the stomach. Once it is bound, the phosphorus does not get into the blood. Instead, it is passed out of the body in the stool.
My mom said she can't have any beans. Is this true?? I can not find anywhere that is says she can not have beans.
She is correct. Beans are loaded with Phosphorus.
the key here, as always is moderation. no you shouldn't eat beans every day, however if you love beans ( i have a killer chili recipe) eating them occasionally in small amounts and remembering to take your binders is perfectly alright.
That is what my dietitian always said. She used to tell me that if they were things that I really craved and which we not in the renal diet, maybe I could take a little on the morning before I went to dialysis. Like that would be a good time to have an orange, and things like that which we are normally not allowed to take.
And as was already said, moderation is the key.
I think they don't want us to feel too boxed in where our diet is concerned, since the human tendency is to rebel after a while and just go bonkers (berserk). So just a tiny amount of these forbidden things from time to time will preserve our sanity and not endanger us too much. That is the way I see it.
if my said something was forbidden i'd send her packing. i basically eat whatever i want in moderation with a very few exceptions and my numbers are great. as an example 1 strip of bacon has 750 mg of potassium.
if my said something was forbidden i'd send her packing. i basically eat whatever i want in moderation with a very few exceptions and my numbers are great. as an example 1 strip of bacon has 750 mg of potassium.
750 mg of Potassium for 1 slice?? Boy, was that dietitian off.
People on dialysis need to fend for themselves.
The USDA site glitter posted can truly set us free from the tyranny of dietitians everywhere.
8)
Starfruit:
My dietitian never explained why but I remember my ex-boyfriend Steve wanted me to try new things, Starfruit being one of them. I said no I better not without checking with my dietitian. He said, "Come on!! Not like it will kill you or anything!!!!"
I found out at my next clinic day (I was on PD at the time so I only went once a month for checkups) that if I had taken it it could have killed me!
There was a poster on the wall that said:STAY AWAY FROM
STARFRUIT!
IT CAN KILL YOU
IF YOU ARE ON
DIALYSIS!
(http://www.kidney.ab.ca/kitchen/images/starfruit.jpg)
I didn't know more than that so I did a search:
- DaVita Thread: Starfruit Warning!! Do Not Eat It It Will Kill You! (http://www.davita.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=814)
- Starfruit - a risk for dialysis patients. (http://trophort.com/information/data/B01/S10/AND04STA18X1026.html)
- Eating Star Fruit May be Fatal in Uremic Patients
(http://www.kidney.ab.ca/kitchen/warnings.html#starfruit)
Grapefruit:
ANOTHER one to worry about is this:QuoteGrapefruit Warning (http://www.kidney.ab.ca/kitchen/warnings.html#grapefruit) * this is a LINK!!
There is a growing body of evidence that shows grapefruit juice interacts with many of the medications that dialysis patients are prescribed.
DO NOT drink grapefruit juice if you take any of these medications. If you aren't sure if you take any of these medications, ask your doctor or pharmacist.
- Blood pressure lowering agents (calcium channel blockers)
- Persenadine
- Sedatives (benzodiazepines)
- Estrogens
- Quinidine
- Saquinavir
- Cholesterol lowering agents (statins)
- Cyclosporin (immunosuppressants)
Phosphate: - use in moderation
- Soft drinks, soda drinks, especially cola or coke and fizzy lemonade
- Cordials/fruit syrup beverages
- Chocolate, lollies, sweets, candy, sugar
- Ice-cream
- Skim milk powder (often added to processed foods)
- Biscuits, cookies, cakes from the supermarket
- Tomato ketchup
- Mayonnaise
- Fish fingers
- Processed cheese, especially soft cheese spread
- Frozen pizzas
- Hot dogs
- Processed meats
- Baking powder and self-raising flour often contains phosphate aerator
- Avoid all foods that list as an ingredient mineral salts, emulsifiers and lecithin.
- Egg yolks
- Milk
- Nuts
- Wheat germ
- Soybeans and their by-products
- Peas
- Beans
- Lentils
- Corn
- Mushrooms
- Oats
- Cocoa beans (chocolate)
- Sweet breads - liver, brains, kidneys
Potassium: - use in moderation
Foods High in Potassium
- Apricots
- Artichokes
- Avocados
- Bananas
- Cantaloupe
- Cod
- Dates
- Dry beans (i.e. kidney beans and navy beans)
- Figs
- Flounder
- Greens
- Honeydew melons
- Kiwi
- Lentils
- Nuts
- Oranges
- Peaches
- Potatoes
- Prunes
- Pumpkins
- Raisins
- Salmon
- Sardines
- Potassium-based salt replacements
- Tomatoes
- Watermelons
Foods Moderate in Potassium
- Apples
- Broccoli
- Brussels sprouts
- Beets
- Carrots
- Celery
- Cherries
- Eggplant
- Mango
- Mushrooms
- Okra
- Peaches
- Pears
- Peanut butter
- Plums
- Peppers
Foods low in potassium
- Asparagus
- Berries
- Cabbage
- Cauliflower
- Corn
- Cucumber
- Grapes
- Grapefruit
- Green beans
- Onions
- Peas
- Pineapple
- Radishes
- Rhubarb
- Tangerines
- Turnips
Asparagus will make your urine stink.
what to avoid? blind techs with sharp needles
Really? sausage balls are not qualified? I don't really want to have that because I love that food. Here are the foods that are qualified POTASSIUM count becomes crucial -- no more than 2 to 3 grams per day, according to the advice of the patient's physician. Since this is currently not a requirement for listing in the nutritional information on food packages, a list of high and low potassium foods from a dietitian or a comprehensive book on nutrition is a valuable resource.
SODIUM, probably already restricted in the months leading up to dialysis, also is crucial. While still limited, sodium is one of the minerals removed by the dializing process, so guidelines might be modified upward. Depending on the particular medical condition, a limit of 2 to 3 grams daily will be given.
DAIRY PRODUCTS, while an important source of high quality protein, need to be limited because of the phosphorous content, perhaps to 8 oz per day including milk, cheese, and butter. Allowable cheeses include parmesan and other white, low-sodium varieties. Non-dairy substitutes work well on cereal, in coffee, and in desserts.
PHOSPHOROUS is an important element for good bone production, and most people can handle any excess; their bodies simply eliminate it. But that's not true for the dialysis patient, so high phosphorous foods have to be avoided. Itchy skin is an early sign of phosphorous building up in the blood stream. Forbidden foods include bran cereals, brown rice, dried beans and lentils, organ meats, salmon and sardines, chocolate and cola drinks.
Thanks for the list Angie, that is exactly what I have been looking for.. ;D
Also a huge thanks for the starfruit warning, I didn't know anything about that..
Ok, been going over this thread. I'm starting to think that it would be better, and shorter, to just make a list of what CAN be eaten. :cookie;That's not a crazy idea. In my head I keep a "substitutions" list. Instead of this, I have that. I love fruit, but so much of it is high in potassium. But since I like so many kinds of fruit, it doesn't bother me to have some strawberries instead of bananas on my morning cereal. I don't drink orange juice, but instead I have 100% cranberry juice spiked with sparkling water. Actually, after all these years of doing that, I find fruit juice to be overwhelming. I had a sip of orange juice not long ago, and I didn't like it.
Angie, That's interesting about the starfruit. What's in it that's so bad? I've got a lot of advice about things to avoid, but I'd never heard this about starfruit. I think I've only tasted a starfruit once, but I'd better stay away from them from now on.the center where i get my treatment gave us a hand out sheet that said the star fruit was deadly to dialysis patients
From seeing the first page of comments, I'm shocked that starfruit is something we should avoid! I don't think I've ever eaten it before, but I'm really surprised that none of my doctors or nurses have told me to stay away from starfruit and grapefruit. Maybe they just assumed that I would never eat that... Haha and I don't plan to now!
Sure. I'm not on dialysis yet, and I still have around 10% of my kidney function. My Nephrologist told me to limit protein because it's hard on my kidneys, and to limit salt because it raises my blood pressure (which is already high and I take a lot of med's for it). He also told me to watch the high potassium foods because my potassium level was high, and I wasn't sure what those foods were. A dietician at the hospital told me to stay away from bananas, potatoes and tomatoes, that those are all high in potassium. Then another doctor told me that he thought the BP med's were raising my potassium, and limiting the potassium wasn't going to help. He changed my BP medicine and my potassium level went back down to where it should be.
My Nephrologist also told me to "limit my fluid intake", but he didn't really want to set an amount. I take 60 mg. of Lasix a day, and he said just make sure I don't drink so much that I start retaining fluids. I asked him if I could still drink Tab and diet Coke, which is practically all the fluid I drink (I know that's bad, but it's true) and he said it was okay for now, but that I probably will have to stop drinking it eventually. He did have me start taking one Tums with every meal, I understand that's for the phosphate.
None of this is probably new to those of you on dialysis, but it's what I've been told. It does seem like there are a lot of things we should avoid, and not that many things that are good for us. My sister is diabetic, and I was thinking, what if I was diabetic and had kidney problems? How can you limit protein if you're diabetic? What would you eat?
OMG I ate starfruit while I was on PD. I got a couple off a tree to try, as Id never had them before. Guess its a good thing they taste like crap!!
Ive never been told to "avoid" anything, more so to focus on portion control and total amount of potassium consumed each day. I did find it difficult to guage sizes of fruit and vegetables, which I think may have contributed to a couple of high potassium episodes. I would eat exactly or less of the amount I was allowed, but I will still getting high potassium levels. I figured my idea of a medium tomato must of been alot different to the version of medium that was writting on my sheets. After that I did avoid tomato because I was too scared to eat it. Didnt bother with banana either, as I can never stop at just a half a banana.