can someone please give me some "male insight" or something LOL

[Speedy1wrc]

With every post I read, I keep having a vision of a carrot dangling on a string. It seems whenever there is a problem he apologizes, makes a promise then at some point goes back to the way it was. It's convenient to not have to deal with an issue by promising something (whatever it is he thinks you want to hear) then not following through.

Unless he's forced into doing something. I seriously doubt anything is ever going to change. I can forsee another thread like this in 6 months. He likes things the way things are and you don't. You want change, he doesn't.

He's happy with things just the way they are, and as such in his mind, why would he want to change? I didn't want to say it before, but rather have you deduce it, but dump him.....

[frankswife]

What benefits are you getting out of the  relationship?

[lmunchkin]

OK, a male perspective. This may sound sexist but I don't care. In most cases it's in the male nature to be the provider and protector. A real man is reliable and honorable. He doesn't just leave on a whim or in a huff and let those who might depend on him to fend for themselves. A real man keeps his commitments. No one is perfect. We all make mistakes. But a real man owns up to his mistakes and isn't going to keep making the same "mistakes" over and over. If that happens they are no longer mistakes unless that man is just plain stupid. How stupid? Well just consider that even a dog will learn not to piss on his owner's leg. Otherwise, such poor behavior is just a display of immaturity, unfaithfulness, and selfishness. These are the traits of a child and not of a man. Such a man needs a mommy and likely will never make a good partner to anyone unless he grows up.

 

Not sexiest at all.  Very honest & pointed!!  You just said what others were thinking, I suspect.

lmunchkin

P.S. GLM, you and only you know in your heart what to do about this situation. Its really is in your hands, dear!  It is up to you.  Keep him or Dump him.  You are not obligated one way or the other.  You are not bound by any vows. I will pray that things go your way.  You deserve to be happy.

Oh, by the way, has the pain in your hands subsided some?  Its good to see you posting again!

[gothiclovemonkey]

I do agree with you all, completely...

its not that i want him to change, i just want to understand him. i dont think i ever will. im probably better off letting go. i just dont want to give up so easily....

imunchkin, no, the pain is still there, and its also in my legs and feet. they are sending me to a specialist in april. soonest they could get me in. im typing with one finger lol

[lmunchkin]

Well you are doing very good with just the one!  Hang in there, you are one tough cookie, and this too, shall pass.

lmunchkin

[RichardMEL]

Dear sweet kind natured GLM....

here we go again huh?

I'm going to make some comments, and like everyone else, have my 2 cents worth. I know you appreciate that all of our comments and opinions are ment as constructive criticism and because we care and want YOU to be in the best situation for you (and your son) and our motivation is based on that. Mine is anyway, as it always has been.

I read this latest thread on top of the various others and it suddenly hit me (and boy it was painful)  that in some ways your actions and behaviour, while very well meaning and sweet, actually "enable" and re-enforce his own behaviour and attitudes.

Here's an example of what I mean. He says he will do something like take Jareth to school in the a.m. then doesn't. You don't want to make a big scene about it because, as you said earlier, don't want to hassle him to make him unhappy, so you deal with it, stew on it, and he basically is let off the hook. There's no real consequence to his action(or lack of it, or choice as he later revealed - that he didn't want to take your son to school. WHY NOT? and perhaps more importantly if he didn't WANT to take him then why tell you he would?!! What's with THAT?).

I don't mean to have a go at you because I know you care, but your efforts to be the supportive and nurturing one because he's "had a rough time" in the past and all that mean you don't create waves until things come to a head.. he gives some lame reason and you're like "oh ok" (to paraphrase) and accept it for the sake of harmony... but there's NO harmony for YOU because you still have to deal with it, and all along he can mentally shrug his shoulders and go back to playing games/sleeping/whatever.

You say you want to "understand" him - I don't quite understand why? Some people you just can't figure out.. or perhaps in this case you DO understand(based on your various threads) but perhaps don't want to accept it because I think there's a hope you can make it work - despite numerous "last chances".. you keep chugging away while you say you don't want to change him, and you sure do nothing to help him SERIOUSLY address is behaviour, but you hang in there why? to upset yourself even more and add extra pressures and burdens to you on top of all the crap you have to manage as a single mother dealing with kidney disease.

I honestly do not doubt he has reasonable intentions as a person.. but he's showed ongoing trends to act poorely towards you (or not at all) and not really learn from his poor behaviour, and as I said in some ways your behaviour to him kind of re-enforces that to him on a sub-soncious level because hey.. he can screw you over by promising to do stuff, then not, or "not noticing" trash and doing nothing (yadda yadda yadda) because you in your own way accept it, deal with it, and it's not a consequence.

Here's the kicker for me GLM - you can't even name ANY positive thing you derive from the relationship. It seems to me that  you stay because as you said some months back you dont't want to be alone (and he also admitted to you he was only "with" you - seemingly in the barest sense - because the alternative was too painful). That is not a healthy basis for a relationship.

Yes he contributes to the living arrangements, money etc but then again he has a vested interest there that he gets fed too, has clean clothes etc (who does the domestic chores?? is there any split of duties? sounds like he's not too good at taking out the garbage).

I know it's not as simple for you to leave that arrangement for practical reasons as well as emotional, so if that is not an immediate option then maybe you need to try something different to be heard but seriously.

I heard about a mother a few months back who got fed up with her teenage kids just treating home like a hotel, leaving dirty crap everywhere, not doing chores etc so she went "on strike" and refused to clean anything, do washing, make lunches, buy groceries etc....

and it got pretty feral over the course of a week or so let me tell you, but the kids when they had no clean underwear, nothing to eat in the house and the sink was full of dirty dishes and nothing was clean were taught a serious lesson and promised to behave (I have no idea how long that lasted of course).

maybe you should try a modified version of that idea - you don't even have to say anything.. wait for him to notice or if you like announce "from tomorrow I'm going on strike. I won't do X Y or Z" and make him take responsibility for more. If he has no clean socks... well let him deal with it (yes, gross I know) but maybe the idea that hey stuff doesn't just magically happen while he's snoring and playuing computer games... it may help.

The other suggestion is to simply stop expecting ANYTHING from him - he's shown he can't be relied to even keep a promise made hours before so why should you expect anything from him?

I know that all seems harsh and it would be difficult to do but maybe you need to make it clear there ARE consequences.

My other thoughts is tht you give in so easily for the sake of upsetting him, or making him unhappy at the sake of your own. Since when is THAT a partnership of any sort? As others have said - speak up!! If he sees it as nagging or something he has a choice... You shouldn't roll over because some guy - anyone - might be unhappy or something. When he does something wrong let him know.. but explain why - eg: "When you didn't take Jareth to school as you told me you would, that means Jareth is late, aand that is bad because ...." or "I had counted on you to deal with the rubbish the dog was getting into but you failed to do anything about it.. Do you want the trash to be all over the place? That's not healthy for any of us!!" etc.

Finally you are sweet, kind and caring person who puts everyone's needs ahead of your own - indeed you sacrifice almost all of yourself for others. In the case of your son that is very normal.. but in the case of someone you admit is really not a partner (but more of a user) to you, who doesn't support you,a nd treats you poorly in many ways - that is NOT right. You need to accept that what YOU want and what YOU feel are perfectly reasonable to express and be important too... I understand you care about this guy, and love him on some levels, but the situation is so broken even Blind Freddie (ie: me) can see!! You get nothing but heartache from it and that is so distressing to people out here who care about you. It also occurs to me that this situation isn't exactly doing him any emotional favours either.

You understand none of my comments are meant to hurt or upset you.. I'm just, as always, saying it how I see it. I'm really sorry that, yet again, you're dealiong with this stuff. You're not a mat. You stand for something.. so stand up and be counted!!

[gothiclovemonkey]

i know you guys are saying what needs to be said out of care, not being mean. i appreciate it very much.

richard, its funny you said that about the mother who went on strike. i sort of did do that (not for that reason, but because of the pain im in, i can barely grip anything) , and the house is a total sty... he said hes going to clean this weekend. wee shall see.

i can name things... i have someone with common interests, and we have fun together when we do things together. we like the same shows. we have similar sense of humor. he makes me laugh.
yes i know that probably doesnt seem like much... and im not even really sure what a good relationship is supposed to consist of..

last night i decided id bring up how i was feeling. he got irritated because he thought we were past it, i said i have trouble voicing myself. so he opened up and we talked some. i said i really dont know why you just went to sleep. he said i wanted to. i didnt want to take him, and wanted you to get the point that i wasnt taking him. I said i didnt think that was nice and he said He knows, it was total asshole move, but he didnt want to deal with it and figured hed rather deal with me being pissed off later. (wow, what?!)
I said you cant just do that, he said "thats  just what guys do baby"
he also said he was embarassed that he made him miss the bus...

i told him that i feel like he takes advntage of the fact that i dont say anything or nag him, i asked how our relationship would be if i was more stern, like most women would be. he agreed it probably wouldnt be good.

i want to understand him because i dont doubt he cares for me and wants to be with me, but if i cant understand why he acts this way, how can i ever accept it?
he knows what upsets me, and i do eventually bring stuff up to him, i just really need to work on doing it when it happens... i just dont want jareth to see an arguement either, so thats part of my reason for that. the other is figuring out how to word it without coming across badly.

i have pretty well stopped expecting anything, i knew i should have set my alarm. i guess i thought i could trust that he would do it, and i know mistakes happen, he fell asleep. what upset me wasnt that he fell asleep, it was that when we figured that out, he just went to bed. And simply because "he didnt want to" is not a good enough reason, in fact, its a poor reason. and it was an A hole thing to do.

[gothiclovemonkey]

today is my tests, and i figure  if he cant make an attempt to be by my side, then ill definitely have my answer.

they were supposed to be last week, (bad weather, jareth had a snow day, so we rescheduled so i didnt have to take him)
 i asked if he go with me and he said he didnt want to, but then a little later he texted me from work and said he would. i was a little hurt, but no one wants to do that... but i would have been offering to go with, not waiting to be asked, and definitely not saying i dont want to. (of course i wouldnt waaaant to, its boring! but i would out of love and support.)

i know it sounds like i make a lot of excuses for him, and i probably do, but i just dont think hes all bad either. he just has issues. but sometimes i do feel like i am blind to something, and that im being played or something... its really weird.

im sure from these psts i seem like a complete idiot. im not. i actually usually can give people great advice, why cant i take my own advice? i know if this were a friend id know exactly what to say. id be non-bias and see both sides for what they are. id be able to split it down and pick it apart. but i cant do it for myself?! Ive tried the pro and con list, that never really helps, because one con can be worse than having 30 pros... and honestly i dont even rally know what i want out of this relationship, any relationship for that matter...
i suppose id want someone who loves me, who wants to support me and my son in our times of need, who will adore me and want me as much as i want them, who wants to please me as much as i want to please them, who will help me as much as i help them. will take up the extra when i cant do it, and let me take up the extra when they cant. someone who enjoys the same things as me, but also has their own interests. someone that can put up with my occasional crazy moments and forgetfulness... isnt that what relationships are supposed to be like? or am i just a dreamer??

[RichardMEL]

oh boy oh boy oh boy. I have red alert signals going off in my head and it's giving me a headache (sorry)

Before I explain the alerts I want to say something and make it very clear what *I* think.

You are NOT an idiot. I've met you a few times, we've talked a bit and I've read what you post. Of course you're not an idiot. What you are is in the middle emotionally and pysically of a tough situation with many conflicting needs and wants all pulling you in different directions - and there's no way you can take that step back for yourself that you can when you have a friend and you can see their situation. I have another friend who ironically sounds a lot like you in many ways dealing with her own difficult relationship/partner situation (ironically she also has a young son involved) and she too knows she needs to get out, that it's hurtful for her and bad for her son and etc but I think she just can't.... like I said kind of similar the more I think about it (so hey, it's not just you!).

So you're not stupid - I think you understand very well many of the things going on with your situation and relationship - after all we are responding with our thoughts and comments based what YOU are telling us - and you have the insight to write it all down pretty clearly (it seems to me) here then you're no fool... so don't think that, ok?

OK my alarms?

Two stick out at me from what you wrote above:
<quote>
"last night i decided id bring up how i was feeling. he got irritated because he thought we were past it [ ... ]
I said you cant just do that, he said "thats  just what guys do baby"</quote>

So you see he thought it was not an issue anymore because a) you let it sit and sorted it out so you were "past" it and b) "that's just what guys do baby"??!

ummm well I don't know what part of Venus or Mars (I forget which one men are from lol) he is living on, but I must be on the other side of the planet - and I think many are. To just excuse poor and disrepectful behaviour as "that's just what men do" is BS.. because while I am far from perfect (nobody is!) but I think most PEOPLE would not be like that. Jerks and selfish people yes, but I still like to think the world is not full of such inconsiderate/azy/selfish/rude/thoughtless(etc) people.

That makes it sound like I am saying he is all those things 100% of the time. I do hear you when you say he has some good points and I am sure he does - the way it comes across that the amount of times those come through are pretty small compared to the times when he's not being supportive.

The other alert for me is this:

i want to understand him because i dont doubt he cares for me and wants to be with me, but if i cant understand why he acts this way, how can i ever accept it?

my response is - why SHOULD you accept it? Why do you deserve to be put through this? He can't even tell you properly why he didn't want to take Jareth to school... and lets say he was really tired or whatever did he wake you up and say "Look I'm sorry I know I said I'd take care of it but I'm not up to it" - no he didn't... he ignored it till you woke and pointed it out, then instead of honestly communicating he just went off to bed?! To me that is so rude and disrepectful, selfish and not considerate of anyting except himself... and he knows he's done the  wrong thing but won't put his hand up until you confront him... he'd prefer to hide out in bed?!

It worries me to read your "how can I accept it"  line because that's in a way making excuses, or almost "that's just what HE does, baby" and just act like yeah that's the way it should be and you should put up with it.

Look we all want a utopia where everything is perfect and runs smoothly and it's like the Brady Bunch with perfect parents, wonderful kids who get into funny situations and it's all sorted out and alice keeps the place clean. Yeah real life is NOT like that. Nobody is perfect. ALL relationships are full of compromise and give and take (and perhaps I shouldn't be writing stuff here given my ability to not hold a rship myself.. but I still have my ideas lol). but the way you describe it your relationship is all give from you and take from him. A one sided friendship, romance, partnership, business arrangement whatever is unfair in the extreme and that isn't right. I'm not saying all rships are 50/50 splits and it's all perfect (a.k.a. Brady Bunch or Cosby Show or Family Ties or you name it cheese filled pre 90's sitcom family) but I do think many couples do, in general get it right...

and for mine the main precepts of a good relationship should include some of the main things:
- trust, communication, respect

how many of these, if any, do you feel exist in yours?

[gothiclovemonkey]

er...
of those three things i dont feel there is any....
and thats just because of things in the past, which he thinks i should already get over those... its not that easy to do!

and i do agree that it probably is making more excuses for him.
maybe i shouldnt put up with it, but i figure if i love someone, i love them unconditionally... i mean, if he hurt me or my son id leave, if he cheated and i had proof, id leave probably, but other than that, i dont really think love can be conditional. id still love him even if he did do those things, id just know i cant be with someone like that. but he doesnt hurt us.

i mean, we are kind of beating a dead horse i think, because we already know this isnt working. but i just cant seem to stop wondering if its ME. maybe i am taking his actions wrong, etc... thats why i came here, because i wasnt sure if it was just me taking things wrong or what...

i obviously have some issues with self esteem so i often wonder if im making right choices and such. i wonder if i make a "mountain out of a moehill" type stuff...

but your right i dont have trust, i dont get respect, and he hates communicating.... and i suck at it lol i try at least though

[MooseMom]

I don't have the time at the moment to be as courteous as Richard, so forgive me if I sound curt.

Two things that strike me:

1.  If this guy is funny, makes you laugh and shares your interests, well hell, you can get THAT from a mere friend, not just a live in BF.  You can enjoy these qualities in him without having to live with him, you know?

2.  You've said it yourself...all this palaver is not about him, rather, it's about YOU and your self esteem issues.  I can't help but wonder if you would put up with just about ANYTHING just to have a bf.  But I would point out that your self esteem issues are NOT blinding you to this guy's a-holeness.  You recognize his total ineptness, his selfishness, his lack of maturity AND his lack of willingness to step up to the plate.  However, despite the fact you recognize these things, you still put up with them, and I have to wonder why.  Do you think you somehow deserve to be treated this way?

[gothiclovemonkey]

MM to best answer you ill start with this
i was with my sons father for 3 years, he was physically mean to me, i put up with that until i found out i was pregnant. i didnt want my son to be hurt by him so i left. i dont know that i can say i would have left him, had i not gotten pregnant.... yes i know thats probably the stupidest thing ever but its true.
I know i dont deserve to be treated that way, and i know that all my excuses for it wont possibly make it alright either, im  not stupid or blind but even now, even being away from him for 8 years, i still think about the good times we had, and if hed just stop head butting me, we would have had a good relationshp - and yea, i do realize how ridiculous that sounds. but it is what it is. And ever sadder, sometimes i STILL miss him... what?!? how?!?! i have no idea. hes a terrible father to his son, hes a drug addict, and from what ive heard, he is still violent and abusive... why would i miss that?
at least pj isnt abusive. hes just selfish.

all my live its been pointed out to me that ill never amount to dog shit  because ill never be good enough, or pretty enough, or thin enough, or healthy enough.

I spoke with pj again, and he said something that makes me wonder. If all your life your allowed to be selfish, how will you ever learn not to be? trial and error? *shrugs*

[Speedy1wrc]

You point out the way you are now is because of a cumulation of all your past problems. You also elude to the fact that you probably can't change.

Let's change that up a bit...

PJ is the way he is due to a cumulation of all his past problems. And to continnue, he probably can't change.

That said, I can guarantee that if you want you can change and along with that so can he. However, which of you desires change?

[gothiclovemonkey]

i can change, and have changed - i think for the better lol i need more change to be even better, jennifer 3.0 hahaha
everyone can change, and you can overcome your past, just because something bad happens, it doesnt mean it will happen again, or that you have to follow in the same foot steps.
just because most people in my life point out my short coming to me all the time, doesnt mean i truly believe it all. (ok, so, i do believe more of it that i should, but not all of it...) i know im not complete dog shit, i do have some redeeming qualities, even if they cant see them.
so i guess what i am saying is there really is no excuse for someone to act any one certain way, but it is a reason. if that makes sense....

[geoffcamp]

It sounds to me that you got what you wanted. You already knew his actions are not acceptable. But I don't think your interested in taking action. That's cool, it's your life but I think we all reaffirmed what you already knew. So now I'm confused as to why you seem to defending him and his actions. Like I've said in past posts now is the time to act. Waiting just prolongs your I'll feelings and let's him believe he can get away with his actions. As far as people can change, I'm not so sure your core qualities change when you reach a certain age. Yes you can change your diet, weight and general outlook toward things. But the core values rarely change in adults with out serious work and usually a major trigger in your life that motivates change. I see no motivation for him to change his ways. I'm sure with all the major issues you have been dealt you have made major changes in your life but we are talking about HIM not you. As long as you allow him to act how he does the more he will take advantage. I encourage you to set boundaries and expectations that have consequences. I get the feeling you've vented and realize its not you. It's his problem and issues. If he will not sit down and talk like an adult I suggest writing a letter. I truly hope you do not just let this continue to slide just to avoid confrontation. Good luck wish you the best. G.

[renalwife]

I have read your postings and have read the replies on this thread.  To me, is sounds as tho what he wants is a mother.

Just tell him to knock it off, You are his girlfriend, not his mother. 

He sounds immature and you sound needy.  I don't think anything lasting will ever come out of this relationship. 

[RichardMEL]

Goodness me GLM....

You say he doesn't hurt you or Jareth but then you write...

i mean, we are kind of beating a dead horse i think, because we already know this isnt working. but i just cant seem to stop wondering if its ME. maybe i am taking his actions wrong, etc... thats why i came here, because i wasnt sure if it was just me taking things wrong or what...

If ever I needed proof that you're being hurt it's right there in that. He treats you poorly and you wonder if it's all your fault.

He may not be physically hurting you as Jareth's father did, but emotionally? he's screwing you up so badly you're taking the blame for his own conscious decisions and way he acts... and then he says to you this thing about if you've always been selfish all your life how can you stop?" - that's right up there with "It's what guys do" in my book. The one thing that is correct about that statement is that in the way you've acted, by as I wrote earlier "enabling" his behaviour (sorry if I sound like a TV pop psychologist - I don't even watch those shows!) by accepting it then you're reinforcing to him that he can be selfish, clueless, lazy, inconsiderate, unsupporive etc and essentially get away with it. There's no consequence to his actions for HIM because you accept it then go on to say to yourself that he is like that because of stuff you do - the only sense that that is correct that I see is that you continue to let it happen.

Someone else wrote that he acts like a mummy's boy (sorry "mommy's") and I do see that ad  n a way he is like a teenager or youth that he's not having any real boundaries so continues to get away with acting poorly because for him there's no discipline or consequence. Like you see some parents out in public with their kids and the kids go on a bender of screaming or tantrums or whatever - some parents do nothing so the kid just goes on and on and continues to a point where it is considered normal and acceptable for them to do that, while others will nip it in the bud there and then and make it very clear what is not acceptable behaviour and that there will be punishments for that. Now OK you can't send a supposedly grown man to his room without ice cream or gve him a spanking (he may like that :p ) but the longer you allow his behaviour to continue and just let it go and then worry that it's somehow YOUR fault or it's stuff you do (while at the same time conceeding that a lot of it comes from before you came along) then no he won't REALLY understand or make an effort to improve himself.

And really it shouldn't be about changing for you or anyone else, it should be (I think, anyway) to be a better person for HIM in the way he treats everyone in his life (and himself). I don't think this is about you wanting him to change for you to become the perfect partner or anything, but to step up and join the general population of people who can, in general, treat people - specially those close to them, with some common courtesy, respect and manners at the very least.

I get the feeling from some of the things you write GLM that through your low self confidence and feelings of self worth that you almost accept this kind of treatment as something you deserve because you're not worthy of better?! Well that's utter bullshit! NOBODY deserves anything like that and anyone who treats you poorly or makes you feel like a bad or unworthy person are the ones with issues and you don't need that crap in your life. I don't mean you should be arrogant and think you're God's Gift to humanity or be unrealistic(and I don't think you ever would be) but by the same token just accepting all this stuff is not right either.

You don't need this drain on you. You say you love him unconditionally but WHY do you love him? What does he give you, or show you, that is WORTHY of that love? Don't tell me it's common interests and he makes you laugh. I can make you laugh (I think!) but you don't love me.. I mean seriously ask yourself WHY do you love him unconditionally in the context of what he gives you back as a partner.

Sorry I got fired up!!

[KarenInWA]

Jenn - you have been given a lot of good advice here! I don't have much to add, since I have more or less zero experience in the "relationship" department. I just want to say this. If I had a burden like PJ in my life, I would be so bored and DONE with him that I would have left/kicked him out a LOOOOOOONG time ago! I don't have patience or tolerance for laziness and "that's just how guys are babe" in my life. I once had a "bf" who didn't call me back the night before my gallbladder surgery, for example. I think he was upset with me because I was going to buy a condo after selling my first condo, and we had talked about my moving into the home he was renting (I didn't know if I wanted to rent or own at the time). So, I felt like he was playing the angry little boy when he didn't call me back on the night before my surgery. If a man can't give me support at a time when I need it, then I don't have room for him in my life. Granted, I didn't "date" this loser for long, it was one of my usual no-more-than-2.5-month-long "relationships" that to me is nothing but a f*#king joke. But, that is one thing I go by. If a man isn't man enough to stick with me through the bad times and give me support when I need support - such as you asking him to take Jareth to school and him responding like a skulking boy who just got told he can't have access to his playstation any longer - then he isn't man enough to be with me. That's my  .

KarenInWA

[Riki]

Wow.. You and I have a lot of the same self-esteem and insecurity issues, but I think if I were you, and my bf told me that he didn't take my kid to school, when he said that he would, because he didn't want to, I would have blown my top.

From what you've said here, and in other posts, he sounds very disconnected from you and Jareth.  He does what he wants, when he wants, without thinking of either of you, and when he does something that bothers you, you don't say anything.  The thing with that is, if he doesn't know, he can't do anything about it.  I know it's already been said, but you need to find your voice.

I watched my parents all my life, who had a relationship similar to yours, though not as dire.  My dad would look after some things, but left Mom to do everything with us kids and the house.  Mom told me that when we were little, she had to get a babysitter when he was home, because he just didn't know how to look after us.  He's selfish and self-centred.  He still blames Mom for a lot of his problems, and they haven't been together for 3 years.  Mom put up with his bs for nearly 35 years, but I couldn't wait to move out of the house to get away from him.  She learned how to tune him out when he'd rant about Mom buying the wrong kind of ketchup.  When he'd do that, I'd hide in my room, although, one day he told Mom to take the bread she'd bought back to the store because the slice he was using for his toast had a hole in it.  He was not joking.  I couldn't help it, I laughed.  But I'm getting off point.  Mom wasn't sure how she'd deal once he left, but I told her that everything would change for the better, even the atmosphere in the house would change, and she eventually admitted that I was right

I'm sure you love him, and in his own way, he loves you too, but you're really not getting anything out of the relationship except for more stress, and you've got enough of that as it is.  He should be trying to make life easier for you, not harder.  It sounds like you guys would be better as friends, and you appear to be the adult in the relationship, so it's you who is going to have to make the decision, and, stick to it.  Maybe not a break, even, just a pull back.  I'm not sure who's place your in, if it's his or yours, but if it's yours, maybe ask him to find his own digs, because it seems like a live in relationship isn't working.

I've been in the on again, off again relationships too, even where one of us has moved in, then moved out a few months later, only to come back again.  It's hard to say enough is enough.  I just had me to worry about.  You've got your little guy too, and he watches and learns from you guys, and if you don't do something, he may think that the way you're being treated is how women are supposed to be treated.

yeah, that was long winded and scattered.. I'll shut up now.. *L*

[Gerald Lively]

Last time; get rid of the son of a bitch!

Your relationship with this guy will never be as good as it is now - and you are in pain.  My mother was a battered women, and in my career I have seen this a ca-zillion times.  Not that the Dude hits you, but he is irresponsible and you make escuses for him.  Invest in yourself and go on a hunt for Mr. Right.  He is out there.  Try a different territory than you are used to traveling.  Try non-gothic.

[gothiclovemonkey]

lol gerald, my name may be gothic, but that doesnt mean i run in those circles. i am all over the place with my personality. not just gothic

there is no need for apologies when you are speaking your truths, i do agree, and i understand. I would be just as forward as any one of you have been. I personally, appreciate it. Thank you.

I am glad to have people who can help me out in this area, because i am so low in self esteem and unsure most of the time, and like ive said, pretty clueless when it comes to social type things...

when we talked last night, he said he didnt want to see me so upset all the time, and if hes making me this crazy then why am i here?
the only answer i have is because i love him, but you ask WHY i love him... and i dont even have an answer for that. I just cant picture him not being in my life anymore. i know we would probably be better as friends... but will that even work?

i know, i really do, and im going to figure things out. its just going to take some time. i really do not want to end up back at my dads house.
finding a place will take some time. our leaease is up in april.

[MooseMom]

Obviously, GLM, loving this guy doesn't make you happy.

There are so many people who love someone but cannot live with that person without going mad.

Try loving this guy from afar.

If you really want him to remain in your life, that's fine, but does he have to live with you?

Does he help with the rent?  If so, is that why you are staying with him?

It's a shame that you believed all of those people who claimed you were next to worthless.  How the hell did they become such experts?  They weren't being truthful or insightful, rather, they were just being cruel.  I have a cousin whose family got a lot of jollies out of humiliating her.  Let's face it; family can be just as mean as any stranger, maybe even more so because you were a convenient target for their poison darts.

To echo Karen's point, aren't you bored with him?  Are do you kinda like the drama?  There's a great song by Halestorm called "I Miss the Misery" who complains that her boyfriend got boring once he started treating her better because, yes, she missed the misery.  Are you like that, do you think?

[Deanne]

Love isn't enough to maintain a relationship. In time the loving feelings will fade when the other things are missing. Things like security, knowing you can count on the other person, trust.

It sounds like you're trying hard to hang onto the love, but I don't think you can. He says he loves you, but that's probably only because he gets whatever he wants from you. He doesn't love the "real" you. If he did, he wouldn't let you down time after time. He loves having his on way. He loves not being responsible. He loves that you love him, but that's not the same and it doesn't sound like it's what you really want.

[Gerald Lively]

It is not “love” you are experiencing, it is “dependency”.  As for your self-identified self esteem problem, set goals for yourself, then accomplish that goal without assistance from anyone else.  Do this enough times and you will become independent and the World will look decidedly different to you.

I grew up in a dysfunctional family setting and was beaten most everyday.  I was told I would never amount to much.  When I retired, I was at the top of my profession, having proved to myself that everyone who rendered a negative judgment was wrong.  Yes, you don’t see a way out.  That is because your eyes are closed.

For me, it wasn’t until a source who did not know me said I had great promise (FBI/NSA) and proceeded to turn my head around.  No, I wasn’t with the FBI, it was military intelligence.  Not bad for a kid who had a self-esteem problem.

Once more, get this guy out of your household, a place where only you make the rules.  If you can’t get along without him, hold him at arms length.  It’s your life, not his.

Kootie J

[gothiclovemonkey]

It is not “love” you are experiencing, it is “dependency”.  As for your self-identified self esteem problem, set goals for yourself, then accomplish that goal without assistance from anyone else.  Do this enough times and you will become independent and the World will look decidedly different to you.

why do you guys keep saying that? I am perfectly capable of doing it on my own, and I have for many years. I dont NEED him, i wanted him....
I dont NEED anybody. its just nice to have someone

but its ok, just came back from the dr who seems to think im depressed and need drugs to cope, so whatever... im so sick of this shit. im not depressed im living life with ups and downs, who the hell wouldnt be a little upset from time to time? even a normal person with normal people problems gets down sometimes!

as soon as my lease is up im out of here and finding a place of my own for me and my son. i obviously have issues and whats the point anymore of trying to work with anyone? if its not me, its them, and blah blah blah
so great when a dr tells you that you dont show enough emotion about getting told you have this or that. screw you maybe i didnt want to cry in front of ten idiot doctors i dont know. or maybe i dont care. i mean damn surely you all can relate, they tell you you have one thing, its like well just add that to the damn list, and move on already
im sick of being sick im sick of people im sick of doctors and im just so tired i just dont want to do it anymore, theres only ONE thing keeping me from quitting it all. my son. i love him to much to give up. but damn it......
i feel like im at the edge of a cliff and my choice is to either back into a cactus or jump off. neither appeal to me.