I don't think it's stagnant, Hemodoc - I just think you enjoy the political banter! You posted all of once in August, after not being with us since April. Then in the last 5 days, you've had 26 posts, all in the politics section. Hey, if you are heading back to whatever you do the rest of the time, don't wait 4 years to come back and check in, okay? I think we need more discussion on the issues all the time, not just in November every 4 years, which is when most of Traditional America actually pays attention!
Quote from: cariad on November 11, 2012, 03:21:39 PMQuote from: Hemodoc on November 11, 2012, 03:14:29 PMSo, go rule. I am getting on with my life and will cope with the political climate whoever is in charge.You've said this easily a dozen times with no indication that you are in fact getting on with your life. I am not even in America anymore and so sadly can take no credit for any of Obama's successes over the next four years.You are comical Cariad. I come and comment for a few days on a couple of threads after not going on IHD for months aand all of a sudden you pronounce my life as stagnant. In any case, if you don't want to rule with Obama, there should be plenty of room to lead from behind with him.Take care, thanks for the chuckles.
Quote from: Hemodoc on November 11, 2012, 03:14:29 PMSo, go rule. I am getting on with my life and will cope with the political climate whoever is in charge.You've said this easily a dozen times with no indication that you are in fact getting on with your life. I am not even in America anymore and so sadly can take no credit for any of Obama's successes over the next four years.
So, go rule. I am getting on with my life and will cope with the political climate whoever is in charge.
Quote from: MooseMom on November 11, 2012, 02:10:08 PMThat's fine, Hemodoc, that you choose to believe we here at IHD have no common bond. If you want to exclude yourself from a group of people who care about each other, you are free to do so. We are all free to form whichever bonds we choose, and I choose to form bonds with the people here who have devoted their time and energy in creating a community that supports and comforts, informs and entertains each other. If this is not evidence of God's grace, I'll accept that. What I won't accept is the idea that bonds formed by us ourselves here on IHD are somehow invalid if there are members who may not share the same religious beliefs that you do.You really are a wet weekend, Hemodoc! Is there any joy in your life at all?My two oldest friends both happen to be gay. I've known them since high school, but it wasn't until several years after graduation that they told me they are gay. (They are not partners and never were. Neither are married.) I've had many talks with them about their sexuality, and as a result of those conversations, I've come to the conclusion that people are just born with their sexual preferences. It's like being born left-handed. I don't know anyone who has made a conscious decision to be gay. So if you believe that each of us is created by God, it makes me wonder why God created gay people? What is His purpose? What are two gay people supposed to do if they want to enter a committed relationship? Do you support civil unions but not marriage for these couples? What is acceptable to you? And what is acceptable to God? If God created gay people, what kind of relationship does God envisage for these people that He has made in His image? Does He require that they be lonely? What had God said about marijuana? Where does the Bible say that pot is "wicked". Why is pot wicked but morphine and opiates OK? How does the Bible address this question? Are you seriously saying that the only way that this country could have sought the face of God was to vote for Romney? That campaign was financed by a non-Christian who is also a casino owner, and isn't gambling supposed to be "wicked"? Romney's campaign was flooded with money from corporate interests, gamblers and who knows what other kind of sinners, and you are seriously saying that a vote for Romney was a vote for God but a vote for Obama was a vote for, well, not God? Seriously, this is what you are telling us?And you really think you have some deep understanding of the current generation in its entirety? That doesn't strike you as arrogant? We have members here on IHD who are of a generation younger than you and I, and you post on here that all of them are undeserving of the blessings of God because they are all marching toward Sodom by way of Gomorrah? I'm astonished that you have condemned them all, like you know them all so well.Our generation witnessed the Jim Crow laws in full effect. The Beavers of the world didn't live in every area of the Deep South where dogs were set upon people and black girls were burned. God has seen the USA commit far worse atrocities upon living human beings that He created, yet somehow you seem to believe that through it all, this was a blessed country. We have killed, destroyed, enslaved and debased in the name of God, but you see gay marriage and smoking the dried leaves of a plant to be more offensive to God than slavery and the ensuing debasement of whole races of people? Is this the American for which you are so nostalgic?No problem Moosemom, but if you want God to bless America, perhaps you should actually read what God states are His requirements. Have a great day.Peter
That's fine, Hemodoc, that you choose to believe we here at IHD have no common bond. If you want to exclude yourself from a group of people who care about each other, you are free to do so. We are all free to form whichever bonds we choose, and I choose to form bonds with the people here who have devoted their time and energy in creating a community that supports and comforts, informs and entertains each other. If this is not evidence of God's grace, I'll accept that. What I won't accept is the idea that bonds formed by us ourselves here on IHD are somehow invalid if there are members who may not share the same religious beliefs that you do.You really are a wet weekend, Hemodoc! Is there any joy in your life at all?My two oldest friends both happen to be gay. I've known them since high school, but it wasn't until several years after graduation that they told me they are gay. (They are not partners and never were. Neither are married.) I've had many talks with them about their sexuality, and as a result of those conversations, I've come to the conclusion that people are just born with their sexual preferences. It's like being born left-handed. I don't know anyone who has made a conscious decision to be gay. So if you believe that each of us is created by God, it makes me wonder why God created gay people? What is His purpose? What are two gay people supposed to do if they want to enter a committed relationship? Do you support civil unions but not marriage for these couples? What is acceptable to you? And what is acceptable to God? If God created gay people, what kind of relationship does God envisage for these people that He has made in His image? Does He require that they be lonely? What had God said about marijuana? Where does the Bible say that pot is "wicked". Why is pot wicked but morphine and opiates OK? How does the Bible address this question? Are you seriously saying that the only way that this country could have sought the face of God was to vote for Romney? That campaign was financed by a non-Christian who is also a casino owner, and isn't gambling supposed to be "wicked"? Romney's campaign was flooded with money from corporate interests, gamblers and who knows what other kind of sinners, and you are seriously saying that a vote for Romney was a vote for God but a vote for Obama was a vote for, well, not God? Seriously, this is what you are telling us?And you really think you have some deep understanding of the current generation in its entirety? That doesn't strike you as arrogant? We have members here on IHD who are of a generation younger than you and I, and you post on here that all of them are undeserving of the blessings of God because they are all marching toward Sodom by way of Gomorrah? I'm astonished that you have condemned them all, like you know them all so well.Our generation witnessed the Jim Crow laws in full effect. The Beavers of the world didn't live in every area of the Deep South where dogs were set upon people and black girls were burned. God has seen the USA commit far worse atrocities upon living human beings that He created, yet somehow you seem to believe that through it all, this was a blessed country. We have killed, destroyed, enslaved and debased in the name of God, but you see gay marriage and smoking the dried leaves of a plant to be more offensive to God than slavery and the ensuing debasement of whole races of people? Is this the American for which you are so nostalgic?
Wow, big brother is here indeed. Sorry, that is a little over the top to look at my stats like that, but I guess that is the times we live in. No, not much joy in political banter today. Most folks nowadays engage in ad hominem attacks which is not a substitute for true political banter in the style of William F. Buckley Jr. No wonder when you consider the type of political discourse of the latest campaign. No, the gap is wide and broad and growing larger all the time between our political entities. Political discourse, that would be fun, but it is very rare in its pure form any longer. Perhaps that is why I don't participate much at all in the last few months as you have provided to review.
MM you have so many questions. I wish you could come to church with me. Today was so awesome.
Quote from: Hemodoc on November 11, 2012, 04:21:13 PMQuote from: cariad on November 11, 2012, 03:21:39 PMQuote from: Hemodoc on November 11, 2012, 03:14:29 PMSo, go rule. I am getting on with my life and will cope with the political climate whoever is in charge.You've said this easily a dozen times with no indication that you are in fact getting on with your life. I am not even in America anymore and so sadly can take no credit for any of Obama's successes over the next four years.You are comical Cariad. I come and comment for a few days on a couple of threads after not going on IHD for months aand all of a sudden you pronounce my life as stagnant. In any case, if you don't want to rule with Obama, there should be plenty of room to lead from behind with him.Take care, thanks for the chuckles.I never pronounced your life stagnant, though this conversation has certainly stagnated. You are adding nothing new to the discussion, just bitterly and relentlessly repeating yourself, which would suggest that you have not got over the results of the election as every other conservative on this site seems to have been able to do by now. I would be happy to work with Obama - he has only to ask. I don't take orders from you, though, and I do not appreciate you trying to speak for me by putting words in my mouth and telling me what I do and do not want. You can repeat 'go rule' thousands more times and it won't stop me from expressing myself. You seem to expect (and want) progressives to fear the future because *you* think it will be catastrophic. If you are waiting around for me to say that I am unhappy in any way with the results of the Presidential election, you are wasting your time. I look forward to seeing Obama have the chance to finish what he's started, and I couldn't care less how much conservatives wail and moan about it. (It is actually quite funny truth be told, especially the Fox News pearl clutching.) I enjoy political debates - sometimes merely reading, sometimes participating. I try not to offend the members here, and, perhaps more importantly, I try not to look for reasons to take offense. However, I do not apologise for my political views nor do I expect anyone here to apologise for theirs so long as all of these views are stated respectfully.
Quote from: Hemodoc on November 11, 2012, 07:21:05 PMWow, big brother is here indeed. Sorry, that is a little over the top to look at my stats like that, but I guess that is the times we live in. No, not much joy in political banter today. Most folks nowadays engage in ad hominem attacks which is not a substitute for true political banter in the style of William F. Buckley Jr. No wonder when you consider the type of political discourse of the latest campaign. No, the gap is wide and broad and growing larger all the time between our political entities. Political discourse, that would be fun, but it is very rare in its pure form any longer. Perhaps that is why I don't participate much at all in the last few months as you have provided to review.I don't mean to dictate how you should use this board, Hemodoc, but you have a lot of very valuable experience, and I am sure you are a good man. I rarely see you on this board except in these political threads, and it would be nice to have a truly Godly man such as yourself offer some support to the new members who come here scared and confused and hoping for an outstretched hand. It has been a very long time since I've seen you post a kind word; I know you have it in you. This is why I have asked you how you are doing. I am hoping that you are not unwell or that there is not some other problem in your life. I am sure you have things to do, such as enjoy Idaho and all of God's creation, rather than spend time on a computer, but I am sure that there are people on IHD who would benefit from the occasional supportive comment from you.I am not really sure what political discourse "in its pure form" looks like, so maybe you could show us. But when political discourse starts bumping up against religious doctrine, things start getting dicey. I confess to not knowing a great deal about William Buckley's style of discourse; did it often wander into the realm of quoting Scripture? If so, then I'm at a disadvantage because I am not very good at quoting Scripture. Nor am I very good at quoting federal regulations, like stuff about tires.
Good Grief Charlie Brown...I'm just curious about one thing. Do biblical references to Israel mean that all American politicians have an obligation to condone modern Israel's every stance, without criticism, as a matter of biblical solidarity? Really?
More than that..... 45 million innocent lives have been taken by abortion in this land. People live together before marriage and now same sex marriage is allowed. Judgment will fall.That is not to say individuals cannot keep walking down the narrow road.
Hemodoc, you certainly have the right to quote Scripture whenever you feel it is appropriate to do so, but surely you must realize that once you do that, other people may not see this as pure political discourse. Sometimes you have to know your audience and amend your comments accordingly if what you really want is to explore other people's ideas. But I did specifically ask you if William Buckley quoted Scripture as he was engaging in the type of political discourse you define as pure, and you did not answer. I believe that I have asked you several specific questions, but you do not answer. Could you tell me exactly which actions against Israel engaged in by the Obama Administration you are referring to? Is believing that Netanyahu is a liar an "action against Israel"? Perhaps he really is a liar; I am not in the position to know. But maybe Mr. Sarkozy was right. Is merely disliking Mr. Netanyahu an "action against Israel"? That's a bit hyperbolic. There are many people inside of Israel itself that oppose him; that's why there are opposition parties. Perhaps the man deserves to be shunned. Jewish Americans are not monolithically enamoured of the man, either.http://www.jewishjournal.com/opinion/article/some_jewish_takeaways_from_the_2012_election
Hemodoc, I am not sure that it is right to equate Mr. Netanyahu with God's plan for Israel. Being the head of the Israeli government does not make Mr. Netanyahu's policies shine in the eyes of God. It is entirely possible that Mr. Netanyahu is a detriment to Israel at this point in time. I'm sure you know that many Israeli's are opposed to his policies. Are those people doomed in the eyes of God? I don't understand why anyone would believe that all of his policies are for the eternal good of Israel.I don't think anyone in the Obama Administration doubts Israel's right to exist. There might be disagreements on how best to keep Israel safe, but that has always been the case. We spend a LOT of taxpayer's money in supporting that nation economically and militarily. Oooh, that begs the question...if we DO fall off this fiscal cliff, would that affect the amount of taxpayer's money we spend on Israel? Anyone know?
Quote from: Ricksters on November 10, 2012, 03:23:59 PMI think that Bill O'Reilly's comment about "traditional" America refers to a U.S. where the vast majority of citizens had real values, and didn't look upon our government to solve problems for us from cradle to grave. I was watching a you tube video today from election day, where college students in South Boston were asked questions about who they were voting for and why, and how many congressman/senators we had, the amendments to the constitution, etc. These young adults, and I use that term loosely, were absolutely ignorant! I know I was self-centered at that age, but I was educated! I understand why they want the government to look after them...they certainly can't do it themselves! Just disgraceful!RickiWell said Rickster. I ask my 16 yo grand son questions for which he has no clue about issues that he should. Their social media and public schools no longer teach what we were taught. I will take it one step further noting how my own children look to us even though they are in their 30's for so many things. I never expected to have my parents financially responsible for me my entire life. In such, I worked as hard as I could when I was in college to be able to provide for my own family. I have spoken with some of my friends who have the same experience. The lottery mentality and welfare mentality is widespread. Self reliance and standing on your own two feet truly are obsolete traditions here in the US any longer.Hemodoc,I agree with you! My parents were what would be termed as lower middle class these days. There was no money for me or my siblings to go to college. I worked for the phone co. for several years until my 1st marriage broke up, and then went into the navy. The navy paid for my undergraduate degree, Bellsouth paid for my masters. I worked full time, went to school full time, and was a single parent. I cannot understand the handout mentality...it was hard for me to even file for medicare, and disability, even though they are not handouts. I am afraid for the country my children and grandchildren will have left to them.Ricki
I think that Bill O'Reilly's comment about "traditional" America refers to a U.S. where the vast majority of citizens had real values, and didn't look upon our government to solve problems for us from cradle to grave. I was watching a you tube video today from election day, where college students in South Boston were asked questions about who they were voting for and why, and how many congressman/senators we had, the amendments to the constitution, etc. These young adults, and I use that term loosely, were absolutely ignorant! I know I was self-centered at that age, but I was educated! I understand why they want the government to look after them...they certainly can't do it themselves! Just disgraceful!Ricki
Quote from: cariad on November 12, 2012, 05:09:51 AMQuote from: Hemodoc on November 11, 2012, 04:21:13 PMQuote from: cariad on November 11, 2012, 03:21:39 PMQuote from: Hemodoc on November 11, 2012, 03:14:29 PMSo, go rule. I am getting on with my life and will cope with the political climate whoever is in charge.You've said this easily a dozen times with no indication that you are in fact getting on with your life. I am not even in America anymore and so sadly can take no credit for any of Obama's successes over the next four years.You are comical Cariad. I come and comment for a few days on a couple of threads after not going on IHD for months aand all of a sudden you pronounce my life as stagnant. In any case, if you don't want to rule with Obama, there should be plenty of room to lead from behind with him.Take care, thanks for the chuckles.I never pronounced your life stagnant, though this conversation has certainly stagnated. You are adding nothing new to the discussion, just bitterly and relentlessly repeating yourself, which would suggest that you have not got over the results of the election as every other conservative on this site seems to have been able to do by now. I would be happy to work with Obama - he has only to ask. I don't take orders from you, though, and I do not appreciate you trying to speak for me by putting words in my mouth and telling me what I do and do not want. You can repeat 'go rule' thousands more times and it won't stop me from expressing myself. You seem to expect (and want) progressives to fear the future because *you* think it will be catastrophic. If you are waiting around for me to say that I am unhappy in any way with the results of the Presidential election, you are wasting your time. I look forward to seeing Obama have the chance to finish what he's started, and I couldn't care less how much conservatives wail and moan about it. (It is actually quite funny truth be told, especially the Fox News pearl clutching.) I enjoy political debates - sometimes merely reading, sometimes participating. I try not to offend the members here, and, perhaps more importantly, I try not to look for reasons to take offense. However, I do not apologise for my political views nor do I expect anyone here to apologise for theirs so long as all of these views are stated respectfully. Yes, yes, yes, Cariad, just more and more ad hominem attacks. That is not political discourse at all. But, have a great day.Peter
Quote from: monrein on November 12, 2012, 12:00:13 PMGood Grief Charlie Brown...I'm just curious about one thing. Do biblical references to Israel mean that all American politicians have an obligation to condone modern Israel's every stance, without criticism, as a matter of biblical solidarity? Really?Dear Monrein,Moosemom started this thread on "traditional America." If I may be so bold as to take this back to our founding fathers and our historical Judeo-Christian beliefs, then how America approaches Israel is important. In such, "modern Israel" as you call it is mentioned in Bible prophecy. If you believe the Bible which is a tradition of the majority of American people up until the last few years, then we know and understand God's plan for Israel and the world.Since, once again we are talking about "traditional America," this is a related topic. Unfortunately, a larger and larger number of people are rejecting the teachings of the Bible. However, since Moosemom is proposing ways to have God bless America, understanding what God's criteria on this subject is once again related to the topic "traditional America." In our increasingly secular nation, the relationship between America and Israel is transforming. Nevertheless, I have no doubt of the truth of God's promise to Israel, I will bless them that bless you and curse them that curse you.Atheists do not believe in God, but the real issue is that God does not believe in atheists. We shall all stand before Jesus and give account of all that we have done, whether good or bad. Sadly, the majority of people in America don't believe that any longer. So be it, God gave us free will. But yes, to answer your question, as many folks that hate Israel today around the world will not ever be able to drive them out of the promised land ever again and America needs to choose which side that they will be on, God's side or the worlds. The choice is ours, but their are consequences for our choices.
Quote from: Hemodoc on November 12, 2012, 12:14:14 PMQuote from: monrein on November 12, 2012, 12:00:13 PMGood Grief Charlie Brown...I'm just curious about one thing. Do biblical references to Israel mean that all American politicians have an obligation to condone modern Israel's every stance, without criticism, as a matter of biblical solidarity? Really?Dear Monrein,Moosemom started this thread on "traditional America." If I may be so bold as to take this back to our founding fathers and our historical Judeo-Christian beliefs, then how America approaches Israel is important. In such, "modern Israel" as you call it is mentioned in Bible prophecy. If you believe the Bible which is a tradition of the majority of American people up until the last few years, then we know and understand God's plan for Israel and the world.Since, once again we are talking about "traditional America," this is a related topic. Unfortunately, a larger and larger number of people are rejecting the teachings of the Bible. However, since Moosemom is proposing ways to have God bless America, understanding what God's criteria on this subject is once again related to the topic "traditional America." In our increasingly secular nation, the relationship between America and Israel is transforming. Nevertheless, I have no doubt of the truth of God's promise to Israel, I will bless them that bless you and curse them that curse you.Atheists do not believe in God, but the real issue is that God does not believe in atheists. We shall all stand before Jesus and give account of all that we have done, whether good or bad. Sadly, the majority of people in America don't believe that any longer. So be it, God gave us free will. But yes, to answer your question, as many folks that hate Israel today around the world will not ever be able to drive them out of the promised land ever again and America needs to choose which side that they will be on, God's side or the worlds. The choice is ours, but their are consequences for our choices.I find it very strange to equate criticism of particular Israeli policies or politicians or points of policy to a "hatred" of Israel or a "cursing". Certainly the folks at the Jewish Voice for Peace or H'aaretz would not agree with you on this. Will Jews also "stand before Jesus" and give an account? Now I really am confused and I'm guessing this is news to them also. Perhaps the Jews for Jesus but that's another matter all together. Of course the fundamental Islamists seem pretty clear about Allah's will for the world as well so I guess there really is not much hope in the end. Politics and democracy require examination, criticism and accountability for proposals and for actions it seems to me, so blind faith seems misplaced in this context although it might be requisite in a religious context. Anyhow, I'm pulling back now from this discussion because it all seems so murky to me but I've always been struck by life's astounding complexity and can never quite grasp how it can be reduced to absolute certainties.
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