I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: General Discussion => Topic started by: Jamie on November 29, 2005, 12:07:43 PM
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Dear fellow renal readers,
Of corse I'm speaking of my own experice on this topic but what I have noticed trying to get into a relationship while being on dialysis is near to impossable.
Dealing with renal failure since age 5 and now going on 33 I can say what a big F#$@ing joke this really is. Is this a real dark and lonely road or what. Now I'm not talking about the pills or even the treatment its self (that's a story all its own) but the scar's the many up's and down's. for my self being through on failed transplant and trying to get back on the transplant list is nerve racking its self but doing it alone is even worse.
I don't consider myself a Tom Cruse but I also don't consider myself a Frankinstine either but I have noticed that dialysis and relationships just don't mix . As of right now its look's pretty dark and dinngie......Jamie-G
(www.jamiegmagic.com)
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I really hope Epoman is true to his word and doesn't delete ppl's posts. I've had an awful time with relationships too. Now I just give up and resign myself to the fact it's not going to happen. I use call girls/prostitutes now. They come to my house for an hour and I can do whatever I like to them. Something to think about, friend.
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Renal failure and dialysis are both hard on relationships. My husband of 19 years decided this summer he wasn't happy any more and left. We met at 19 and 23. Life takes its toll and we go on. And it isn't easy doing this by ourselves... I thank God for my friends and family. And while I don't ever see myself in another serious relationship again- ya just never know what might be around the corner. Being by myself has shown me I'm stronger than I ever would have imagined.
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I was also in a long term relationship over 6 years. I was living with her and it was considered common law. She had blamed every thing that went wrong because I was on dialysis.
I knew the relationship was going bad as I was on dialysis for two years at the time and she only came about twice to visit me there. I was in the hospital many times for long peroid of times and I was there by myself.
One of she favorit sayings to me was its my problem and not her's. But when my pention came in she had no problem spending my money. Any of my friends at that time told me she was just using me for my pension check she was a single mother and did not work her self.
To be honest she was a real evil woman I took "MORPHINE" 200mg a day just to deal with this reationship and I use the morphine for like two years. She was very negitive twords me and my health problems and she did have me believeing that every thing was my own fault.
Believe it or not near the end of the relationship she was trying to convince me to take myself off dialysis because I had nothing to live for anyways. When you are on morphine the world is a different place.
She ended up having a back opperation and when she came home the doctors there put her on a very powerful pain drug called "Daladid" . Now just to let you know I don't know how to cook so she made all the meals. One day I believe she made supper and she put a over dose of this mediaction in me food. I was on a large dose of morphine at the time as well. After that she left the house for 4 days hopeing that when she came back that I would be dead and she would of told the police I was messed up with the morphine and I got into her medacations and over dosed myself.
Well in that 4 days I was comatost I never ate or drank any thing and I believe that is what saved me. I missed two dialysis treatments and all I can remember is throwing up all the time I was a big mess.
A good friend of mine got me out of that house and I moved back to my mothers. It took me 6 to 7 months with the doctors help to kick the morphine. In September it will be 2 years since I was in this horable realtionship. Today I feel like a different person all together but I do believe I was damaged by this woman as I have noticed I can not speak to woman and have become very shy. I will probably be alone for the rest of my life but who's knows what can happen.......Jamie-G
www.jamiegmagic.com
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Jamie, you have really been through a great deal. One thing that is encouraging however is that you have not given up. That kind of determination is what makes our lives worthwhile. So don't give up on relationships either. You never know. You are also doing something positive by joining this board and being an active member. Keep on posting, keep on believing. And when it is necessary, rant and rave and let it out.
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Well, I must say thats sound pretty positive but in my world some times the negitive will creep up. I say probably alot of the time in the last 2 years depression dose sit in just thinking about even trying to get into a new realtionship never mind the dialysis and the crap that goes with it.
Also I must say thank God my magic keeps be very busy. I have a lot of magic friends in the magic world that are good people and they press me all the time to move forward.........Jamie-G
www.jamiegmagic.com
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Renal failure and dialysis are both hard on relationships. My husband of 19 years decided this summer he wasn't happy any more and left. We met at 19 and 23. Life takes its toll and we go on. And it isn't easy doing this by ourselves... I thank God for my friends and family. And while I don't ever see myself in another serious relationship again- ya just never know what might be around the corner. Being by myself has shown me I'm stronger than I ever would have imagined.
I am sorry too hear that "Iowagirl" I guess I am lucky my wife has stuck by me for 12+ years so far, and has never complained once. :o I do not know what I would do without her.
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I really hope Epoman is true to his word and doesn't delete ppl's posts. I've had an awful time with relationships too. Now I just give up and resign myself to the fact it's not going to happen. I use call girls/prostitutes now. They come to my house for an hour and I can do whatever I like to them. Something to think about, friend.
I already told you I will let people rant, vent, yell and scream however If a post is too vulgar or offensive to our female members I will lock it faster than 450 blood flow. ;)
Try to remember this site is accessible to people from all age groups.
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Being on dialysis or getting on kidney transplant can be ruff for both partys is includes family members, friends and Co-workers.
I also believe that some of the medications can also play a big role in this as well. And I also have noticed that most Doctors have no problem covering one problem with pill's with more pill's to cover that problem with more pill's to cover the other problem and next you know you are on more medication than what your food intake is.
Unbelieveable no wonder why most people on dialysis feel like shit myself included.....Jamie-G
www.jamiegmagic.com
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Iowagirl, When I got my transplant and the side effects of prednasone took over, I wasn't the cute perk blond that you see to your left (Just kidding-I was never that) ;D Anyway, after 10 years of marriage he dumped me for some tramp on the volunteer ambulance that he was involved with. Beds in the back and everything! (Epoman, don't lock me out!)
To make a long story short, it was the best thing that happened to me. If you can't trust them to be there for you, you need to rely on yourself. :-*
They still haven't found his body~ (God... I'm kidding)!!! >:D
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Rerun,
Some thing quite simular happen to me as well. I know it hurts and in my case as well it turned out to be better for me too.....Jamie-G
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Iowagirl, When I got my transplant and the side effects of prednasone took over, I wasn't the cute perk blond that you see to your left (Just kidding-I was never that) ;D Anyway, after 10 years of marriage he dumped me for some tramp on the volunteer ambulance that he was involved with. Beds in the back and everything! (Epoman, don't lock me out!)
To make a long story short, it was the best thing that happened to me. If you can't trust them to be there for you, you need to rely on yourself. :-*
They still haven't found his body~ (God... I'm kidding)!!! >:D
I am forwarding this post to the unsolved crimes division of the F.B.I.
;) ;D Just Kidding!
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Hey, Epoman, you are horning in on my territory! I'm supposed to be the misunderstood wise-ass around here! ;D
I have also had my share of "Your medical problems are just too much for me to handle!" from boyfriends. Even the guy I am currently with had a major freak-out about a year ago. But he realized that, yes, my medical situation IS bad, but he would rather spend whatever time I've got left WITH me than without me. Not very romantic, but realistic. We'll probably never have the sunset wedding on the beach that we both wanted, but we're making the best of what we've got.
Personally, I feel that you're better finding out quickly if the person you're with will be there for you when the going gets tough... it's even more stressful to face a major medical crisis and then have your partner walk away. Condolences to everyone out there who's been abandoned by people they thought loved them-- we ihatedialysis.com posters might not be a good replacement for snuggling, but we'll help out any way we can. :)
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Dear fellow renal readers,
"Not my problem" or "Keep your comments to your self" or " There's others out there far worse off than you" Or " I like you as a friend" Or " We are to good of friends " Or "Your in self pitty" Or "You don't look sick".
There are many sayings out there and I'm sure most of us have heard them. As for me personally as a "Guy" the most damageing saying is probably the "Friends" one no guy ill or normal wants to hear the "FRIENDS" talk. Once this starts to come out you pretty well know were its going....Jamie-G
www.jamiegmagic.com
(not playing the vilolin anymore but switched to the drums.)
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Hahahaha! That was cute, Jamie! Anyway, so glad to see you still here and sharing.
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Bajenne2000,
Pretty funny "EH" (thats what we say here in Canada) I not sure what really makes it funny though if its the bluntness or because its so true or because Bush is President not sure but it is some thing......Jamie-G
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This has been a major issue for me too. My girlfriend who I lived with for 5 years when I got sick took off like a bullet. I have been in two other "relationships" since and it never seems to work out. I am sure that my lack of self-confidence does not help but I can't help but feeling why would anyone in their right mind want a broken person... cronic health issues, financial problems, scars... etc. So I too have pretty much resigned to fact I will be alone and it sucks! Maybe I can get Dr. Phil to fix me!
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Geoff, everyone is "broken" in some way. There are people out there beyond those superficial b****es that you've met.
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I hope so ;D
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This has been a major issue for me too. My girlfriend who I lived with for 5 years when I got sick took off like a bullet. I have been in two other "relationships" since and it never seems to work out. I am sure that my lack of self-confidence does not help but I can't help but feeling why would anyone in their right mind want a broken person... cronic health issues, financial problems, scars... etc. So I too have pretty much resigned to fact I will be alone and it sucks! Maybe I can get Dr. Phil to fix me!
Dr. Phil? I wouldn't trust that big bald ugly bastard to fix a frying pan! ;D
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well he fixes everybody else in less then a 15 minute segment... I figure he could cure ESRD and get me a wife, house, kids, a new sportscar and a couple million bucks in just a commerical break. ;D
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I bet a big Dr. Phil scandal is right around the corner... remember how Dr. Laura was always pontificating about how to get along with your parents, and then the story broke about how they found her elderly mother dead in her apartment-- and Dr. Laura hadn't spoken to her in YEARS! So I'm sure Dr. Phil has some skeletons in his closet, too... big, fat skeletons! :)
It would be nice to have everything fixed in 15 minutes-- but I'll bet that if a bunch of us ESRD patients went down to the studio hoping to get on the show, they'd slam the door in our faces-- the complex life-quality issues we have would require too much actual WORK to solve.
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I know Dr Phil, but who is Dr Laura :) does she have a show over there in the states like Dr Phil. I hate to admit it but I watch him every day I do dialysis :-[ Liz
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My hubby had a big adjustment to make when I became ill. I think he is just glad I stuck around for a few more years. He loves me no matter what. Boy has it been trying on both of us. I find my self leaning more and more on his strength to keep getting up in the mornings and marching onward. I guess I am a lucky one. Twenty years and counting- seven on dialysis.
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It's hard to be in a relationship when the roles change - and one partner becomes the patient and the other is unchanged. It means things are never going to be the same.
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I remember writing the above post in March and then the roles reversed and I had to take care of Victor when he has his accident in May 2006. It was a role reversal extreme. Now I have to carry in the groceries from the car and remember to get the trash out on Wednesday mornings. I had to do the running around to hospitals rooms and to rehab to see him.I was by myself for three weeks and had to learn new coping skills real fast. And after he came home I had to take care of him with antibiotics and be sur ehe had what he needed.
Thank God we are over a year out from all of this heartache and stress. Now we are back to taking care of ech other. He drives me to dialysis and picks me up. I am getting spoiled. (He just wants the car to run his errands.)
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I just don't know what I'd do without my wife Rita. She's my rock. We've been married 33 years and in that time we've had some great times together and also a tragic loss of our only child Donna Louise in 1980 from Cystic Fibrosis at 4 years old. Although we can never reconcile it we got through it and stuck together. Rita also has her Mum to worry about. She's 84 years old and has vascular dementia. It has turned her mother very mean and aggressive and most of the time she gives Rita hell.
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I don't know why but I didn't see this thread till now!
Certainly dealing with dialysis adds a whole other dimension to the usual relationship issues we all face.
One thing that really disappointed me some years ago was with a young lady I had been seeing for about 2 years. This woman has a sister who has had *2* kidney transplants (!) and had been doing dialysis etc.. yet when I was told at the time dialysis was right around the corner for me, and I was struggling a bit.. I got absolutely NO support from this person.. and this is someone who SHOULD have had some idea what that meant for me given her own sister's experience.. but no I felt like she had no empathy(or attempt) at what I was facing and moreso didn't seem to really want to give me support. Of course there was another major issue that got in the way of our relationship and lead to us splitting up (basically she wanted to settle down and have kids, and I don't want to have kids...so I pretty much let her go to find someone who COULD give her what she wanted) but certainly the perceived lack of support was a big factor... I didn't feel much like fighting for someone who I felt wouldn't be there to support me when I *did* eventually start dialysis (which was 2 years later, as it happens). That woman is now married and well.. I wish her luck. I hear from her from time to time which is nice.
Since starting dialysis other things have been problematic. My last girlfriend had no real issue(I think) with dialysis, though she never visited me at the unit or came to see what it was all about.. but it was more a physical issue with what I could or couldn't do due to low energy levels (you all know what I'm getting at ;) )... she was pretty understanding but MY issue was that I felt inadequate because I know I could do so much more if I was healthy you know? So I was feeling like I was letting her down because of my condition. As it happens she left the country to teach English for a year or more in China, so that's not an issue anymore! lol
The other issue, and I have discussed this with a couple of people on dialysis that are of a similar age, is telling a new interest just what the deal is and how they take it. How much do you reveal and when?? Given the fear that someone you're interested in may run off screaming if you lay it all out for them right away... and do you need togo on and on with someone you've just met.. and so on and so forth. One of my dialysis friends has this EXACT issue right now and we were talking about it the other day - she's met someone a month or so ago.. they've been on a few dates and spent time together. He knows she has dialysis but perhaps not the extent of all her medical issues and what it means etc...and she's not sure how to approach the situation given she is keen and he seems keen and she doesn't want him to be overwhealmed with it all and disappear. The other side of that coin is, of course, if they run off because of something like that are they really someone you want to be in a relationship anyway?? So I guess it's one way to test someone's character?!!
Personally I always try to be as upfront and honest as possible... I mean I'm not going to meet a girl someplace and say "hey nice to meet you.. now just so you know I've got kidney failure...." but by the same token I'm not going to hide it either.
It's a delicate road.
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So far I have been lucky. I found my fiancee before I started dialysis, he was with me when my neph told me it was time. He's been there for me. All I can hope is that he'll be there for me when I have my transplant (whever that will be!). When I started dating, I knew I had a kdney problem, and that was a problem for me. How was I gonna tell prospectives about this? Some were scared, some were disgusted (!?), and some were okay with it as long as it didn't affect them.
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Thanks for sharing Richard. In some ways, I understand your perspectives on this topic. I am a young 30's myself. After reading several heart break stories in this site about relationship and dialysis, I made a decision to be very very careful about my potential partner because of so many issues to deal with. I have my tx. already but still very very caution about approaching the lady. I mean I enjoy checking and appreciating their beauties and all.
I do not understand why a lady would not be more understanding given her sister had 2 kidney tx. This is why I am so envy of some members here with supports and caring partners.
I would also go with honest policy is the way to go.
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I too can add myself to this list ! My hubby walked out on me just as i started dialysis and ive never seen him since (over 2 yrs ago now) . I have also tried the 'up front' approach .. in fact i started a thread (I'm not a leper) because of these issues. People i tell either become distant or stop chatting altogether. So when do you say something ? Seems this illness gets us in every way , both medically and socially.
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this statistic is about children with disabilities but since i'm alone i've wondered what the stats are regarding marriages/relationships where one of the partners is ill.
over 90% of all marriages with a disabled child ends in divorce.
i'll talk to anyone at anytime about kidney disease, wheather they want to hear it or not, "bad" habit from having a severely disabled child. if i run across a guy sometime that doesn't want to dump me because of it, well we'll just see if and when that ever happens.
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I'm just shocked and, honestly, horrified that so many of you have had such horrendous times with relationships. I can't fathom being married to someone and then just walking out when times get hard!
As the girlfriend to the patient, sure it's hard. It sucks. I'm mad a lot of the time - partly because I know things will never be the same and I don't feel we enjoyed them enough before Wade got sick. Even though I was given several "outs" when this all started, I never once thought about leaving Wade. I just wouldn't do that. I don't think that's rare - I would think that would be the normal reaction to anyone who has a relationship with someone on dialysis, or with health problems. Who knows? Maybe i'm just special! >:D
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I think u r very special poohkari, to stand strong by ur man in hell or heaven. Would I ever have the fortune to meet a lady with strong character like u? :angel; :angel; :angel;
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The father of my kids stuck by my side through my transplant failing and me starting dialysis. We broke up for other reasons, and I actually am the one who finally gave up completely and didn't want to try anymore due to not seeing any changes in him. My concern is now I am single.. I already have "baggage", 2 children, I also feel it's important for me to let anyone who I may date know that I do have medical problems, and even though I have a perfect working transplant now, it may not be that way forever (knock on wood) and dialysis is something that might be a part of my life again. I don't like to keep secrets and bring someone into my life blindsided I want them to know what could happen so they know what their getting into.
I don't know if I'll be alone forever or not... only time will tell... I am happy with it just being myself and my children but I have dreamed of having a "family" of my own since I was little... so having someone to spend the rest of my life with would be ideal for me, and I want my children to have a male role model in their life on a daily basis. :(
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I think what a number of these situations shows us is more about the person who walks out or can't handle it because they don't have the strength or emotional maturity or whatever to handle it... Someone up above said something that stuck out at me... hold on....
The lovely MyssaAnne said...
I knew I had a kdney problem, and that was a problem for me. How was I gonna tell prospectives about this? Some were scared, some were disgusted (!?), and some were okay with it as long as it didn't affect them.
That last line really gets me. Not that MA wrote it... but the selfishness of the "it's ok as long as it doesn't affect them" part.... but then again when I think about it, I too am guilty of the same sort of thing when I think about being involved with someone with a child/children.. Because in some ways I wouldn't really want that as well (selfiish) but in others with the right person I could see it...
I am really angry with KS's hubby for walking out on her right when she needed him the most. What part of the vows about "in sickness and in health" did he miss?? that's horrible.
Unfortunately dealing with someone's medical issues on top of the other "normal" stuff can often be a deal breaker, specially for people just looking for a "fun" and "no stress" relationship... supporting and being understanding of someone with medical issues is often too much "work" and "stress" for some of these people and it's very sad but unfortunately we are the ones who usually lose out.
I am very happy for all of the people here who support and are supported by wonderful partners..... that is good to read :)
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Richard, you are so right, so many people really do want just fun and games, no baggage, of any kind, children, parents, or illnesses. Which is sad. I have come to value my friends and family who have stuck with me, and have supported me. Then I found this site, and found people who KNOW what it's like. It's hard, even for those who WANT to understand, just what it is we go through. To me, all of you are so special, so strong, so determined. I'm honored to have gotten the chance to know you. Thank YOU for your example of strength.
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To be fair though.. it's easier for us to relate because we KNOW.... If you asked me about dialysis the day before I was diagnosed I would have said something like "yeah, I saw something about it in Star Trek IV" and know absolutely nothing about it, and likely I wouldn't have given it much thought.
I think it's normal for people in general out there in "society" who are not directly exposed to serious medical conditions like kidney failure, cancer, HIV, whatever.... well it's sort of like "out of sight out of mind" and not their concern.
And you can understand ignorance from those people. Some are curious... some are fearful(!) and others just don't want to know... those are all fairly normal sorts of reactions too I think.
The thing that annoys me, as I said above, is people who ARE touched by such things - via a family member or close friend or whatever who DON'T show interest/empathy/some level of understanding.... Like in the thread Karen547 started about her father's comments to her about her catheter or Kickstart's hubby walking out on her when she started dialysis... sigh
The sad thing is that these reactions too are, I'm sure, common human reactions.
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I have turned into such a bitch recently I am surprised the hubby does not tell me to just shut up!
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Mine doesn't know what to think of me some days, either. I am sure it is hard to have your spouse or partner be where we are. They want the life we had before---but so do we. I get so tired of being "up" and making everyone else think this will all be fine. I know they have a burden to carry, but this isn't an easy spot for us to be in either. Some days you can't help but be scared and mad. >:(
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So true, Paris. And it's hard for them, I know, bless their hearts. All we can do is be grateful we have family and friends willing to BE there for us, as confused as they are!! Heck, WE get confused too!
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God, I want our lives back. The ones before dialysis and before the amputation. Our lives have changed so dramatically in the past years. Everything is different. I am so full af anger and anguish at things at times. But then I look at my husband and am glad he is still here and he is glad I am still here.
I guess leaning on each other as we go in the next phase of our lives is not so bad. I pray God will help us.
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MyssAnne and Kitkatz, you are both right. Everything could be much worse. Just a little pity party now and then!! That's why I love it here. :thx;
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The other difficult thing for those around us who care about us and love us is that often when things are down and we're pissed off with our situations and having a bad time of it we often can lash out at those closest to us because... well... they are there... And that's so not fair at all, but can happen.... So that is another stress on relationships.
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Good point, Richard, we do lash out. About all we can do is let them know it is not them personally. Paris, I LOVE a good pity party every now and then! Everyone is entitled to one, no matter what your situation, that's my philosophy!! And if you're gonna have one, make it a darn good blowout of a party!!!
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Went back in time and read this thread. I was still outraged at how most of our relationships go! As for myself nothing has changed at all in the 5 plus year since this topic was brought up. I've dated some and I even met who I thought was going to be the one. She came to dialysis with me held my hand seemed great with everything but within a month decided "I was not independent enough of a man for her". I felt like a truck ran me over!!! Not independent enough!!?? WTF? I do everything myself I never asked her for anything. She said she wanted to come to a session and I set it up! I did all the planning of our outings and activities!! That was over a year ago and recently with in the last 3 weeks she has been calling and texting me. Went to lunch chatted and I'm still hurt by her actions and reasons so I'm having a difficult time dealing with why this attempted reconnection. I invited her to a hockey game on valentines day and she said she wanted to go and seemed excited. I'm just so confused. Am I in the friends zone? Are there other reasons for the reconnection?? I feel like I have to keep up a guard at all times for risk of expecting or wanting too much. I had resigned myself to being alone the rest of my life before I met her a few years ago and felt the same way when she broke it off. I don't know what to think but I'm taking the approach of letting her do the chasing. I don't call or text her unless she initiates it first. (And that is HARD). I guess if we still have fun together and we have a good time at the hockey game I think I will ask her.... Hey so what's up? I had feelings for you and I thought you did for me also. But you made a design and I backed out of your life at your request. Should I enjoy our time and have fun but expect it to be a friends only relationship? And what happens if I still feel I want more from you?? I can't gauge her now! She seems to want to get close again but I don't know and I'm afraid to cross that line and have it go wrong. At least she is a decent friend to hang out with and I'm scared if I push it too much I'll send her running again. It NEVER gets easier or less complicated! UGH. It was kind of depressing to re-read this and know not a damn thing has changed in all these years!!! I hope others are doing better job coping and have been more successful than I have in love and relationships!! K well I think I'll stay away from reading old posts for awhile!! LOL. It's just very frustrating how my life seems to be at a complete stand still and very little has changed for the better!! G.
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Geoff, you are being too hard on yourself. When one seeks an ex-lover, it’s because he or she wants him or her back. Sometimes, people say negative things toward dialysis patients and our lovers, unfortunately, listen to them. I think she really was not comfortable with you being on dialysis but could not tell you immediately during the time you guys were dating. Suddenly, focusing on your dialysis and not you as a man, she decided to leave and give you a lame excuse. Now reality check, she met other men to realize they were not you and didn’t treat her the way you did. Now all of a sudden, you look good to her and she wants you back.
However, if you really want her back, give your demands and learn to forgive her. If she follows your demands, she really wants your back. Just let her know that nothing changed. What she left you for is still there and does she really want that to be a part of her life because it’s a part of your life and its not going anywhere.
If we don’t learn to forgive, we will not move on in live. Things are not the same with you as you have grown and know what you want and what you will not tolerate. Don’t be hard on yourself. I’ve always learned that if you love someone, let him or her go. If he or she returns then it was meant to be according to why he or she returned. So find out what she really wants and make your decision and demands from there.
Just my opinion…. 8)
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My ex left me 3 days after I started Dialysis. I erased her from my memory. But it was tough then.
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>:(. UGH! So depressing how much your life changes in every way and all in a 3 month period for me!!
My ex left me 3 days after I started Dialysis. I erased her from my memory. But it was tough then.
That sucks but it's almost exactly the same thing that happened to me. When I got sick and was not the same "normal" guy bringing home good money from job and wanting (and having energy to) to go out and do things like bars, parties or even a movie she bolted so fast!!! (Not woman bashing just my personal thoughts!). It seemed like and still does quality women do not exist for me any more. Of all the ways ESRD has changed my life this one is by far the hardest to handle for me. I never imagined my life like this!! And since I was transplanted even if I found the "perfect" person I can't have a family of my own. I've been tested and being sick or the drugs made me sterile. I always just took for granted I would have a family. But here I am at 43 years old living alone and year by year more and more any thoughts or dreams I had have become haunting nightmares!!!! On the bright side (better quit my whining) I have survived very well. If you met me there would not be a chance in the world you would think I have all these health problems. And really that is a BIG part of the problem. How could a guy like me over 6 feet tall in decent shape expect anyone to understand inside I'm an F'ing mess? Even when I look in the mirror I can't believe the difference in how I look and how I feel. I can't justify it. By all appearances I should be out there in life doing everything I imagined but my inside body just does not allow it!!
cdwbrooklyn: Good advise. It maybe true she has figured out that I'm a good catch (so to speak) after some time. I'm going to open the door and see how things play out because its worth a try. I'd rather give it a shot then wonder what if?! But it still concerns me the ability of her (and others) just to do a complete 180 the second something happens! So I will have to wrestle my mind into clearing the slate and give a shot at starting again. THX for advise, you know men (collectively) have NO CLUE what's going on in a woman's head!!! LOL. So any advise from opposite sex is always welcomed!
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I don't think it's women who can't deal with sick men. I find men can't deal with sick women either. I think it's people. They can't deal with what they don't understand. Most people don't want to think about mortality, their own or someone else's. They also have a Hollywood idea of what dating and falling in love should be and dialysis doesn't fit into that. It takes a real maturity to be open to people like us and age is no indication of maturity.
I am also 43. I was diagnosed when I was 22. I had thought the whole world of possibilities was open to me and then it turned upside down. I know I will never have love in my life. I do have some beautiful nieces who think I'm pretty great.
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I agree with jeannea. I am a 39 yr old perpetually single woman who is scratching my head at the thought that men hate the whole "being just friends" thing. In my whole life of dating, that is pretty much the only word any man has used to describe me. I was diagnosed with CKD at age 23, but it didn't really affect my life until shortly before starting dialysis at age 37. So even without the obvious health issue, men never looked at me as anything "more". I am 5'8" and have always been on the slender side. I just figured it was a lie that men like "skinny" women.
KarenInWA
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Geoff, I agree with cdwbrooklyn - she's decided she wants you back. Whether that means that she has thought this through enough and will stick around this time remains to be seen. By the way, I don't mean this critically, but if you invite a woman out on Valentine's Day, you've already declared a romantic interest in her. So, I'm glad you've decided that you want to give her another chance, because darling, she already made that assumption when you said the word 'Valentine'. :)
I really hope it works this time, Geoff. My favourite stories on here have to be the ones that begin "I never thought anyone would ever be interested in dating me again, but then...." Which brings me to you, Ms. Jeannea. I am so glad you have those two beautiful nieces, but I am sad to hear that you think romantic love is out of reach for you. Coming to terms with the possibility that it may never happen can protect your heart (the metaphorical one) but please do not close yourself off to the idea all together. I so want to come on here one day to read your "love conquers kidney failure" story. I hope you don't mind, but I refuse to give up on that for you. I'm annoying that way.
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I agree with jeannea. I am a 39 yr old perpetually single woman who is scratching my head at the thought that men hate the whole "being just friends" thing. In my whole life of dating, that is pretty much the only word any man has used to describe me. I was diagnosed with CKD at age 23, but it didn't really affect my life until shortly before starting dialysis at age 37. So even without the obvious health issue, men never looked at me as anything "more". I am 5'8" and have always been on the slender side. I just figured it was a lie that men like "skinny" women.
KarenInWA
Oh Karen! See, I thought men would never find me attractive because I saw myself as gianormously fat, and also my mother told me at 16 that I would "have a lot of trouble attracting a man". Never in a billion years would I have dreamt that I could find anyone willing to date me, let alone propose. I've met you. I know you're fun and sharp and simply lovely. So, I'm not giving up on you, either. Sorry. (Anyone else want to challenge me?? :rofl;)
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You're very sweet Cariad.
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HA. And see I felt like I was the ONLY person in the world dealing with these feelings!! I certainly do not feel happy that there are others, I wouldn't wish this for anyone but it's nice to find an understanding ear!!! When I speak or post about this it is ONLY from MY point of view or experiences. That's why I specifically said not woman bashing. So please don't think for a moment that we (meaning men) are not just as bad or worse in these situations. I too have an amazing niece and nephew and love them dearly and spoil as much as possible!! But I want more for myself. Does not and most likely will not ever include having my own children but it is a life's goal/mission to find a loving partner. I'm in agreement that no one should give up. You never ever know what life will bring you especially when your closed off from certain possibilities. Just look at how our lives turned over head over heels! So in my view absolutely EVERYTHING is possible!!!! Unless you decide firmly to stand against things and if we all did that we would have been dead years ago. I know down really deep we all (here) know anything is possible something's just take a hell of a lot more WORK?! That being said maybe we should start an IHD dating site!! LMAO! Everyone is just too spread out!! But if your in Florida I'm around!! My pic was just updated from a friends wedding so what you see is what you get, just a little dresser than usual!! LOL! So good luck and be open I know it sounds weird to me too after my posts, thoughts and feelings on this but just as I hope for a transplant I also reserve hope for that special person. Happy hunting!
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interesting read :grouphug; Though i m 'just' the wife of the D man, It seems un real that someones love can just change and run because of something like this. Ohhhh, it aint easy for sure, but i guess it's just in the makeup of some to take it,,,,, or leave it.. Just gotta find the ones 'who can take it ' i guess. And,,,,,,,, just asking :bow; Is it unemagineable for two dialysis/transplant people to become 'partners' in this?? I mean, who better to understand each other?? Truly, not being the one on D, i dont have that true knowledge of where your at about that. I was just thinking, or 'just sayin' ;D
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Wow. I hate to hear so many people say they give up on love. I definitely have not had the same experiences as you guys, although I have not been without problems here and there. I lost my kidneys to an auto-immune disorder when I was 22. I was single (by choice) for the first three years. Took my time to center myself and to adapt to life on D. In 2003 three I met a man from Indianapolis who I found I had a lot in common with. He never once batted an eye at the fact I was on dialysis and that I would have bad days. He stayed by my side for SEVEN years. I left him. I felt we weren't getting anywhere and he never proposed and I felt it was time for us both to move on and find what we were meant to find. He was extremely upset but he got over it and saw that we did the right thing. We're still friends.
After him, I met someone and ran away to Alaska to be with him. He was 21. I was 30. We were together for 3 years before he decided he couldn't handle being with me. I couldn't hold that against him. I started getting sicker and I felt it was unfair for me to expect him to stay when he was just starting his life. He needed to focus on school and living his life and not be focused on how sick I was and taking care of me. So I left and came back home to Ohio. I cried at the airport, but I haven't really cried since. It's not that I didn't/don't have love in my heart for him. Sometimes life is about not being selfish and knowing how to let go when you need to.
Now I am with a man who knows EVERYTHING about my condition. When he can't be with me in person (he's in school out of state at the moment) he spends as much time with me as he can on Skype. If I am in the hospital, he is with me almost 24/7. He goes out of his way to make me happy and I do the same for him.
In between relationships I have always had a clamoring of men (and even a few women!) wanting to date me or pursue a relationship with me. I think a lot of it is what you put out into the world. I am sickeningly positive, funny, and I don't go into anything with expectations. If they love me, they do. If they hate me, they do. I don't have time in my life to worry about what other people think. It is usually pretty damned visible to see who will be strong enough to handle your heavy load and who is just going to be skittish and selfish. They key is being open and upfront and to look them in the eye and ask "Can your handle my ish?". Then look for clues that they are lying or not. Do they break eye contact? Do they look or sound uncomfortable? If they show signs they aren't down with your stuff, walk away early and save yourself the heart-ache.
Life doesn't stop or change because you're sick. And the RIGHT person will fiercely stand by your side. Heck. Sometimes even the not-so-right but ok person will fiercely stand by your side. Don't give up, you guys.
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Cynna66: thanks for sharing. It's nice to know someone with good experiences and a great attitude. I think you correct that is all about attitude. But my problem also stems from lack of opportunity to meet people. Just curious how and where you go about meeting people. Usually like you I have had plenty of opportunity when I was working full time or I was a lot more active then I have been in the last 5 or 6 years. I try to push myself to find new ways to get out and enjoy a festival or hockey games but I've canceled so many plans because I'm just not feeling up to it. I'm not a bar person did that a long time ago and I don't really drink alcohol bottle of wine or a beer from time to time. I wish I lived in a more metropolitan area. I lived in downtown Columbus OH for a few years and loved it. I could walk everywhere. I'm plenty open to women and I'm not a particularly shy person but I must be going to the wrong places!! It doesn't help that my big hobbies are very man oriented. But I did meet this last woman at a corvette club meeting. Most of my free time I really enjoy sports cars and I work a lot on mine and also volunteer at the car museum here in town moving cars guided tours help fix and display. And my other passion is hockey. Maybe I need to broaden my range of activities.
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I actually meet A LOT of people via the internet. I met the seven year boyfriend on a horror film website called bloody-disgusting. I meet a lot of people through my interest in gaming, both video and board games. Then, of course, there are also friends of friends I get to know in both real life and via facebook. I am a homebody, partly because dialysis is exhausting but also because I have periodic tendencies to be somewhat of a recluse. My current boyfriend we met playing World of Warcraft. That's a longish story, but I feel meeting people online gives you a chance to get to know them over time, potentially have people to have fun playing games with (real nice way to pass the time when you're feeling bleh). I HATE bars and really think it's a skeezy place to meet skeezy people. Same with clubs. It's hard to find places to meet folks in the real world. I find coffee houses can be a good place for it, but it depends. Some of them are full of hipster kids not out of their teens. Some have nice people to talk with and play a game of chess with though. You might look into going there to people watch and goof off on a laptop. People will eventually talk to you. There is a world of possibility out there. Even this forum is a good start to get to know folks. The most important part is to be aware of how you're projecting yourself to other people. People always hover around happiness. They want to be a part of it. Even if you have to fake it for a while. :yahoo;
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Its funny you mentioned to ESRD people getting together, cause we as spouses really don't know what it is like. Since those who have this understand all too well, why not get together and make a go of it. I think that is a great idea! Falling in love is wonderful. I like it, BW!
God Bless,
lmunchkin :kickstart;
P.S. I agree with GWbrooklyn, we must learn to forgive if we want to move forward!!!!
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In between relationships I have always had a clamoring of men (and even a few women!) wanting to date me or pursue a relationship with me. I think a lot of it is what you put out into the world. I am sickeningly positive, funny, and I don't go into anything with expectations. If they love me, they do. If they hate me, they do. I don't have time in my life to worry about what other people think. It is usually pretty damned visible to see who will be strong enough to handle your heavy load and who is just going to be skittish and selfish. They key is being open and upfront and to look them in the eye and ask "Can your handle my ish?". Then look for clues that they are lying or not. Do they break eye contact? Do they look or sound uncomfortable? If they show signs they aren't down with your stuff, walk away early and save yourself the heart-ache.
Life doesn't stop or change because you're sick. And the RIGHT person will fiercely stand by your side. Heck. Sometimes even the not-so-right but ok person will fiercely stand by your side. Don't give up, you guys.
I'm with Cynna on this, not that I've had too many men clammoring after me, which is probably just as well since I only play for the one team. I agree that what we put into the world makes all the difference. I wouldn't say that I was sickeningly positive, but I do try to keep things light, and I enjoy making people laugh and smile. I'm too lazy to worry about what other people think. I meet lovely people all the time, and I feel enormously grateful for that. The women my age are really just like me, in that they all have a cross to bear in some form or another. We either accept who we are with all the trimmings, or we don't. It's that simple. If we don't, life moves on. All I can say is that once I get this stupid catheter removed from my chest, look out world!
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In the US we can't afford to date anyone on dialysis. We need someone who can work and get insurance. Even with Medicare you need supplemental. I got my transplant almost a year ago so I only have 2 more years of insurance. I'm moving to Sweden. Well I would but I don't like cold weather.
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I live in the US and I've always had my own insurance through work. I worked FT while on dialysis, and thanks to great union benefits, had STD to cover me while out for tx surgery and an emergency post-biopsy induced hematoma surgery. I pay for Medicare as my secondary coverage. In 2014, it will be primary for a few months, then I will hit the 3-year mark in November and it will end. I plan on keeping my job and going back to my regular work insurance as my coverage.
Even with all of this on my side, dating does not come easy to me. But for me, I don't think it has to do with my health issues. I think it has to do with the fact that the men in my area don't like me. I believe in trying to cast a wide net!
KarenInWA
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I'm a overweight, middle-aged woman with a chronic health problem that's only on temporary hold with a transplant that might fail on a moment's notice. I've got enough nerve damage to make me flinch whenever my cat so much as brushes against me, enough physical scars to scare a war vet, and enough emotional baggage from a miserable divorce to need my own freight train to ship it all. I'm increasingly sarcastic the longer you know me, decreasingly interested in sharing my living space with anyone the longer I spend alone, and totally lacking in the ambition required to even look for someone to date. So hey, yeah, the men are just lining up outside my door....take a number, settle down, and get in line out there, guys.
I figure when the misery of being alone outweighs my dread of re-entering the dating pool, I'll do something about it. But until then, I'm going to stay out of the water, since I seem to have forgotten how to swim.
Although, I wouldn't mind someone suggesting "just friends" right now. I'm now living in a fabulous city with all kinds of things to go do, and my usual date is my teenage nephew, which does tend to limit me to the things that interest him. There's a whole world of gallery openings and jazz clubs out there that just aren't as much fun alone.
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great read jbeany :cuddle; ya gave me some laughs :)
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For a man (my experience, I'm sure same for women) it is unfortunate how money seems to be a big issue in love and relationships. I'm not immune, the way I was raised by my father is to be a man. Your responsibility is to do everything in your power to give what you can in all aspects to your partner. I was raise in the "south", Charleston, SC and being a southern gentleman was instilled on me at a very early age. As I grow older that barrier of actually needing someone versus taking good care of someone grows larger. It's a sad fact that our condition breaks our ability to lead the life dreamed. And for the same reason it drives away those who are intent on finding a partner to love and enjoy the times of building up a foundation for the future. I'm glad someone mentioned the monetary aspect of this. It's real. It also is perceived inside myself at least that I have nothing to offer a good woman looking (and rightfully so) build a life, love, care, stability and increase the status and living style with a special person. I know if I put myself in the shoes of a woman my age what things on my "list" I would be seeking. It's difficult to reconcile the fact I simply can not compete. No by that matter ever want to hold someone back from their goals and needs. We as a general society say love is blind and emphasize the separation of love and money. But to me that is pipe dreams and unrealistic. We all have our pound of salt a friend told me once. Only I too feel like my "pound of salt" is a freight train that follows behind me. I WORK very hard at not showing it but its always tethered to me holding me back from moving on or into a mutually beneficial relationship. Which is what I want not a care giver.
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i believe myself to be VERY lucky, I have been with my wife for 6 years, (married 3 1/2 years) I am only 23 but I was diagnosed with End stage renal failure when i was 21, My wife has been beside me looking after me, been with me to every appointment, dealt with my funny mood when i come away from dialysis (for some reason it makes me moody) and works all day in a very stressful job and still comes home to cook me dinner and look after me (shes not my bitch in case you're wondering) I don't drive so life is very difficult to get about. I really don't know what i would do without her! I just don't get people who walk out on there husband or wife just because of their kidney disease, we didn't ask to get sick! The vow "in sickness & in health" should really come in to play here! You don't take these vows for nothin' you know!!!! :rant;
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A Healthy Person on Dialysis
© 1997 Andrew Lundin, M.D. All rights reserved. Reproduced with permission.
A healthy person on dialysis should be able to do many or the things
they planned to do before becoming sick. Being an astronaut may not be
in the cards, however. With age and other limiting conditions, more
vigorous activities will have to be curtailed. There is no question that
one's stamina and strength are lessened with renal failure and dialysis
so that a degree of acceptance of these limitations helps. But
conditioning can help and exercise is encouraged. Laying around, feeling
sorry, maybe necessary for a time, but only makes the problem worse if
not overcome.
I finished college at Stanford University in California
and went to medical school as a dialysis patient, dialyzing 14 hours
overnight, three times per week. When an intern and resident I worked in
a city hospital in Brooklyn, NY, and for several nights, dialyzed every
other night when I wasn't oncall for 36 hrs. I write this reluctantly,
not to brag or seem heroic. it was just what I needed to do to reach my
goal of becoming a doctor. We are not heroes, we are survivors and just
need others to help or get out of the way so we can make it.
The dialysis world is full of achievers who encourage me by their
successes. Perhaps some of them can tell us what they have done despite
dialysis.
Peter Lundin, MD
[In the mid-1960s, Dr. Lundin was the first dialysis patient to complete medical school and the first nephrologist who was also a dialysis patient. He was a distinguished nephrologist and tireless patient advocate.]
This is great!! But there are exceptions in every case. It is motivating and nice to hear but in my head it makes me feel and wonder why I can't seem to do that. I finished school, I worked for several years on dialysis at extremely high pressure jobs even. But maybe it me and that always want to do more and more and I'm feeling more limited as I passes my 40s in age I just can't seem to do both have the high stress every minute career AND relationship even one isn't working out right now. So I happy to read the positive thought and story of that man. I can't help to feel the worse for. Mostly because I demand myself to try to be exceptional at everything I do. Right now not feeling too exceptional. BTW. Thank you for the post I am not saying anything about what you shared be because I'm happy you did! Please don't think I'm thinking its wrong, just my personal thoughts.
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It is motivating and nice to hear but in my head it makes me feel and wonder why I can't seem to do that.
And Shad Ireland does Iron Man competitions while on dialysis. And yet, hearing what other people accomplished never was all that much help when I spent every day puking my guts out and too dizzy to stand up. Dialysis doesn't work as well for some as it does for others, and we all have individual complications that affect how much we can do. Don't fall into the trap of comparing yourself, Geoff. Do what you can, as best you can, and do your best to be content with what works for you.
Of course, there's no mention in that essay of how successful he was at maintaining a relationship while doing dialysis and med school simultaneously, which was the issue at hand. I think the money/future support/good provider issue is always going to be huge. Love may be blind, but many people can hear cash register bells ringing from a distance. If the person in love isn't thinking about how our health is going to affect the future, you can be darn sure their friends and family will bring it up and bring them back down to earth.
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Of course, there's no mention in that essay of how successful he was at maintaining a relationship while doing dialysis and med school simultaneously, which was the issue at hand. I think the money/future support/good provider issue is always going to be huge. Love may be blind, but many people can hear cash register bells ringing from a distance. If the person in love isn't thinking about how our health is going to affect the future, you can be darn sure their friends and family will bring it up and bring them back down to earth.
Peter and his wife, Maureen, were married for 25+ years until her death from cancer in the late 1990s. For all the work Maureen did for its magazine, RenaLife, AAKP honored her memory with the "Maureen Lundin AAKP RENALIFE Award."
http://nephron.org/nephsites/lundin/lundinscorner.html
Thankfully, there are people who stick it out with their spouses, like Mrs. Lundin, and like Sam's wife. There are a large number of us on here who haven't had that luck.
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It is motivating and nice to hear but in my head it makes me feel and wonder why I can't seem to do that.
And Shad Ireland does Iron Man competitions while on dialysis. And yet, hearing what other people accomplished never was all that much help when I spent every day puking my guts out and too dizzy to stand up. Dialysis doesn't work as well for some as it does for others, and we all have individual complications that affect how much we can do. Don't fall into the trap of comparing yourself, Geoff. Do what you can, as best you can, and do your best to be content with what works for you.
Thank you both for mentioning this. I agree completely. I always found myself feeling that these articles were insinuating that if this person can do these things, then I should be able to as well.
I also think in fairness to others that today I would hesitate to get involved in a new relationship with someone with a serious illness, but not because I would resent them holding me back from doing things. Back in my 20s, sure, I would have been swept away on a romantic tide, but today I know I would be too afraid of losing someone. I just wouldn't want to get too attached to someone who could suddenly take a turn for the worse and be gone. Just typing that, it sounds so awful, but I can think of few things harder than losing a loved one and, for me, that would be by far the scariest part of dating a man in ESKF.
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For the record, I am considered morbidly obese (I'm 100 lbs over what I should be), scarred up and down like a tribal warrior, and I have a grip of health problems on top of dialysis (auto immune crap, heart issues, cortosteroid induced diabetes, etc etc etc.) My milkshake still brings all the boys to the yard because I am fun to be around and I have a good attitude. I can't believe I just said that. I am a dork.
If you don't like things about yourself ya just got to address the issues but don't let it hold ya back if you want to meet new people. Life isn't much fun when you don't have people to do stuff with. And nobody wants to be around Debbie Downer. Healthy or not. Sad people make not sad people feel guilty and awkward and then they will avoid the sad person like the plague. You get what you give. If all you give is a poor outlook and sadness and bitterness... well?
Some people out there are terrible. Selfish. Only want you when you can give them something,. There ARE people out there who love unconditionally and will support you with love and warmth you just have to be willing to find them and let them in. LET THEM IN. We all have to take risks. I have been hurt before in relationships. But you will never know any joy if you don't take the risk.
“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom” ~ Anaïs Nin
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I would date an older man. I would worry that the age gap would be a thing. I am a pretty immature 34 year old. I have Peter Pan syndome pretty bad and people tend to get annoyed with me very quickly. But I am currently in a happy relationship.
As for life and dialysis and all that jazz. Yeah I try to have a nice relationship with both. You kind of have to have a sense of peace and humor or it's curtains.... lacy, gently wafting curtains.
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After my 2nd divorce, I was very happy being a single mom and saying never again would I get involved....That lasted about 4 years until I met a member of my online single parenting group....We've been together almost 17 years, through thick and thin. I figured if he didn't leave me when I was diagnosed with MS and was temporarily blind, and now with esrd and dialysis, he is the one I was meant to be with for the rest of my life. Don;t know if it because we are older now (I'll be 60 (gasp) in 2 weeks and he is 68...but I could not have appreciated or felt I deserved what we have when I was younger. And trust me, while I was considered attractive while I was young, I have never been a great beauty...personality counts more than looks, I think!
Ricki
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awww Ricki, im so happy for you. Who would have known what was to be if you hadent given it another shot... Nice to read ;D
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Update: so last night was valentines day and I took her (Melanie) out to the hockey game. She called early and we also went to dinner. Over all I had a really great time. But if one more woman I've dated comes back and preaches to me how great I am and apologizes for how they treated me I will scream!! LOL. I have not changed! So we had a nice dinner nothing special just a local place right by where we both live. Then we went back to her place to drop of her son (16 years old) and headed on the hour drive to Tampa for the game. We picked everything right back up again. Good conversation eye contact all was well. Of corse we had some libations pre and during game! It was cold (for us in Florida) and she grabbed my arm and pulled me close walking up to stadium. Before the first period was over she was holding my hand. She was having a good time I could tell. We lost the game and we bolted a little early. We embarked on the drive back to Sarasota and I got an hour of how good of a guy I am and she has no good reasons or excuses to her past behavior. (She told me from day one she was a runner when things got serious the first time). She again brought that up and that is completely opposite of me. And last time I got really attached to her son and he was too. So I do not want to get back involved just to have the rug pulled out again. It was very difficult for me last time!! But she apologized and sung my praises as a man. All thru the game and ride home she was psychically touchy freely holding my hand and just in general being loving. We got back to her place and she asked me to come in and I did. I purposely put pillows on her couch between us so she couldn't continue to be psychical with me. I stayed a short time then I got up grabbed my stuff and told her I was going home. I was happy I made the decisions because it was obvious she wanted me to stay. But I'm not rushing into a one week flame followed by months of hurt feelings. She walked me out to my car and hugged me and I kept the kiss friendly just to let her know i can't just pick up where we were before from one fun night. I still have trust issues with her, not about being faithful but that she could "run" like before and she again told me that's how she is. Says she doesn't know why etc... But I can't live with that if you want to be with me you can't just break up and blame it on this and continue on. I get too invested for that. But again (like the first time she warned me about that) I think it's just an easy out if you don't feel like trying very hard. It's so easy to say I warned you, I told you what happens!! But we had a very good time. I still am figuring where to take this. And I'm having a hard time reconciling the past and I'm hearing some of the same outs she gave herself last time. Part of me wants her to experience what it felt like by drawing her in and then get my revenge. The other part wants to belly flop in from 100 ft into an inch of water!! It's that in between part of me that really wants things to work out for us!! Well I rambled on far too long!! LOL. Damn short story. So I'm still confused and still wanting something more but I will not pressure or rush anything. As she told me how great a guy I am she managed to also bring up all kinds of things for us to do and made it clear she wanted to be with me. The skeptic in me says she has her built in excuse to "run" if things get serious again so not much has really changed, the wrong word, look or disagreement and she can bolt. But the optimist says she is genuine. Guess I'll let both sides duke it out. Anyway I did have a good time and will take that at least!! Just laughing at myself, like anyone is interested!! Lol. But I love this place I can just spill things out and it's safe and is catholic. G
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I liked your long paragraph it was like an outpouring. I'm in the mood for outpourings tonight. I like that you left early, very dignified.
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Well maybe not 'early' but before anything got underway...
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Update: so last night was valentines day and I took her (Melanie) out to the hockey game. She called early and we also went to dinner. Over all I had a really great time. But if one more woman I've dated comes back and preaches to me how great I am and apologizes for how they treated me I will scream!! LOL. I have not changed! So we had a nice dinner nothing special just a local place right by where we both live. Then we went back to her place to drop of her son (16 years old) and headed on the hour drive to Tampa for the game. We picked everything right back up again. Good conversation eye contact all was well. Of corse we had some libations pre and during game! It was cold (for us in Florida) and she grabbed my arm and pulled me close walking up to stadium. Before the first period was over she was holding my hand. She was having a good time I could tell. We lost the game and we bolted a little early. We embarked on the drive back to Sarasota and I got an hour of how good of a guy I am and she has no good reasons or excuses to her past behavior. (She told me from day one she was a runner when things got serious the first time). She again brought that up and that is completely opposite of me. And last time I got really attached to her son and he was too. So I do not want to get back involved just to have the rug pulled out again. It was very difficult for me last time!! But she apologized and sung my praises as a man. All thru the game and ride home she was psychically touchy freely holding my hand and just in general being loving. We got back to her place and she asked me to come in and I did. I purposely put pillows on her couch between us so she couldn't continue to be psychical with me. I stayed a short time then I got up grabbed my stuff and told her I was going home. I was happy I made the decisions because it was obvious she wanted me to stay. But I'm not rushing into a one week flame followed by months of hurt feelings. She walked me out to my car and hugged me and I kept the kiss friendly just to let her know i can't just pick up where we were before from one fun night. I still have trust issues with her, not about being faithful but that she could "run" like before and she again told me that's how she is. Says she doesn't know why etc... But I can't live with that if you want to be with me you can't just break up and blame it on this and continue on. I get too invested for that. But again (like the first time she warned me about that) I think it's just an easy out if you don't feel like trying very hard. It's so easy to say I warned you, I told you what happens!! But we had a very good time. I still am figuring where to take this. And I'm having a hard time reconciling the past and I'm hearing some of the same outs she gave herself last time. Part of me wants her to experience what it felt like by drawing her in and then get my revenge. The other part wants to belly flop in from 100 ft into an inch of water!! It's that in between part of me that really wants things to work out for us!! Well I rambled on far too long!! LOL. Damn short story. So I'm still confused and still wanting something more but I will not pressure or rush anything. As she told me how great a guy I am she managed to also bring up all kinds of things for us to do and made it clear she wanted to be with me. The skeptic in me says she has her built in excuse to "run" if things get serious again so not much has really changed, the wrong word, look or disagreement and she can bolt. But the optimist says she is genuine. Guess I'll let both sides duke it out. Anyway I did have a good time and will take that at least!! Just laughing at myself, like anyone is interested!! Lol. But I love this place I can just spill things out and it's safe and is catholic. G
This is a bit of a tricky situation, one that I'm glad I'm not in. A philosophy I have about life is to regret the things you did do, rather than regret what you didn't do. We are human, so we're allowed to make mistakes. Some mistakes feel pretty good when you're making them although sometimes they're not so good when you're dealing with the consequences. Years ago, a girl tried to warn me about chasing her, but of course I didn't listen and ultimately ended up getting very badly burnt. In our circumstances having a serious medical condition, dealing with such things is really the last thing we need. But that said, maybe this is the real thing. I must admit, when I read your story, I couldn't help but feel that this particular lady has some commitment issues, which don't necessarily disappear overnight. If she ran once, she's likely to run again. It seems as though she's done it a few times. And if she doesn't know why she runs, then that's indicative of a problem where there doesn't seem to be an answer.
At the end of the day, it really comes down to the choice that you make, to plunge into a situation head first with a high risk of disaster later on, or to steer clear, saving yourself for another day. I don't really know what else to say. If I put myself in your shoes, I'd probably go for it, although playing it cool as you have is commendable. If you are indeed going to take the plunge, I'd do it sooner rather than later. Stringing it out will only put doubt in her mind, which is likely to cause her to bail... again. Go forth and conquer, but remain cautious, just in case she bails again. If she does, no more chances after that. A second chance is one thing, any more is just taking the piss.
Good luck.
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Geoff, I’m so glad you had a good time. However, I would be kind of nervous to jump in a relationship with someone who’s not sure what he wants. So if someone else comes along and she wants to give him a chance, where would that leave you? It sound like she wants you now because there’s no one else right now (hope that not the case). I don’t understand why she will tell you she’s a runner once again. In my opinion, I feel she thinks that you are available so maybe she can get back with you until someone else comes along. Then again maybe I’m reading too much into it; but if she really wants you back, she will not attempt to run again. Why would she tell you she’s a runner once again? Anyhoo, if you want to test the waters to see where it goes, be very careful and try not to give her your heart unless she gives you her heart first.
We never know what a person’s intentions are until it’s revealed. ???
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I liked your long paragraph it was like an outpouring. I'm in the mood for outpourings tonight. I like that you left early, very dignified.
Yes, this. Emotion that raw does not need paragraphs. Showing her with your perfectly-timed departure that you would not be lured back so easily was a fine move. She needs to earn your trust or forget it.
Well done, Geoff.
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I love your 'pouring out' ;D I am behond happy for the great time you had. It just made me smile all over the place knowing you had this great time, and, you kept control of it to boot ;) Of course you and all of us want to protect yourself, thats only natural, but if somehow, you can enjoy the 'friendship' w/o letting her take over your whole heart, just be honest with you, and her, and have some good times................... let a 'new' relationship grow. My son has the 'bolt' kind of issue which is due to a heartbreak causing trust issues.... Each has their own reason, but as 'time goes on' that thought of being 'tied' doesnt look so bad.. The excitement of young life fades some, and the homebody type person may come out. People mature at different times in their life. It would be a shame to miss this opportunity because of your own sorta' wanting to bolt' before giving it a 'watchful' go at it.... Just my thoughts of course. Sending love and prayers, and ohhhhhhhhhhhhh so many best wishes. Thanks for sharing. :flower;
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Geoff! Don't let her play you man. Unless you make it clear that stuff won't stand going forward, she'll do it again. No reason you can't have fun without any strings for a while. Good luck.
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Another update!!
So since last time she has contacted me a few times. I have seen her once since v-day and it was ok. I think she expected a lot more that night and when I didn't fall into that trap she realizes I will not be so easy for her. So she has been sporadic about calling texting or offering time to be together. The few times she suggested I meet up with her I've had to decline due to my schedule which I think is not exactly what she was expecting. I still have feelings for her. But I'm really unclear on her intentions and needs. I'm thinking I'm In the dreaded "friend zone" but the night of the hockey game didn't feel that way. Maybe it was beer goggles on her part!! I enjoyed spending time with her this past Sunday but she seems distant. It might be me and my expectations making me feel that way. We have plans today to go kayaking and ill get some more time to feel her out and distinguish how she sees me. As a friend to do things with to avoid the loneliness we all feel when there is no special person in our life's or if she truly feels a second attempt at a relationship is possible. I almost want to lay it out there and just tell her my thoughts but the fear of rejection and letting her into my head and my feelings is holding me back from doing this. This time, in my mind its up to her to Pursue me and be clear on her feelings and intentions. So I'm not so patiently waiting to see, it has a tendency to consume my thoughts. I don't want to be a fool again but I can't help to see some light at end of tunnel. It's a very confusing time that has me up then down and repeat!! LOL. Hopefully it will be a nice day and she and I can enjoy some time together and I'll learn more about where she places me in her life. As for the friends zone I have to say I'm not good at that, I want more so if it goes that way I think it's probably best for us both if that's how she feel that I walk away. Not that a good friend to hang out with would be bad but given our past and my personal wants and needs trying to be a friend to her would not go well for me. I'd always be wanting and trying for more. I'm being as smart and open as I can but my guard is fully up for the just in case out come. There are a lot of bricks In the wall and I'm doubting she really wants to work at tearing them down. I really hate these in between feelings, I wish I could read minds!! But alas it will become evident sooner or later. For my sake I'm hoping sooner!! And so the saga continues...
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I think a slow approach is wise. Nothing like being burned to make you more cautious...especially when it's the same fire.
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Habits are hard to break!!! Forgive her and move on! She could be a very lovely person, Geoff, but those "habits" (Boltingor runing) will be hard to give up. I would keep her at a "friends length" but not till time has passed.
Just my 2cents!
I know when John & I met, the love had not happened yet. We got to know each other and grew to love one another. When we married in 1994, we cared for each other but we were not IN Love. We both had come from a previous marriage. I was his second and He was my third. We both had our walls up at first, but over time our Love grew. We have a very rare kind of Love. It is unconditional. We havent done the "physical" side of our marriage since 2002. Unbeknown at that time, his ED was because of what his issues he is having now!
I remember thinking & telling others, "something is not right with John". I knew something was wrong, but I did not know exactly! I went through all the "oh, Im not sexy enough" or "what am I doing wrong". I went through all the "its got to be me." He never said one deroggatory comment about it. He would tell me that it wasn't me. Heck, he would reassure me that it wasn't. I don't know what may have run through his mind at that time, but I was hurt in my mind because of what was happening at that time in our lives.
I think the thing that was so confusing about it all, was the fact that we get along great! We really loved each other and always faithful. Now, I know, it wasn't me & nor was it him! It is this disease. His body is broken! I could never leave him. Sex's has never really been a priority for me. I can live with out it, heck, Ive gone 10 years without it. It really is mute point! When I was younger, I never really thought about it much. I was more interested in sports/or the competiveness of it. Boys were boys, I just never gave it much thought.
I think making love is very important. I loved having babies, wish I could have had more, but couldnt. I always wanted more children, but in this day and time, I quess someone up there knew better. Im happy & Blessed beyond measure! Anyone can have Sex, but not everyone can make Love. My love making days are over, and like I said, I can do without it. But my marriage, my vows & all that go with that, is what I strive to maintain. With God's Blessings, we can keep it together through any storm. He would do the same for me, He is a real Man, quiet and Humble and so loving in so many other ways!
Well, I don't know how this disease has affected others "intimacy", but that was not the reason we married. We love being with each other as friends at first then love came a little further down the road!
God Bless,
lmunchkin :kickstart;
P.S. I think too many young & Old, put to much enfaces on the "physical" side of a relationship, when it is much more than that......
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Great point. It's the invisible elephant in the room!!
As I've aged with CKF my ability psychically has almost become non-existent. I am 43. I tend to date my age group mostly a few years younger. When it comes to the point of intimacy the inability to preform the ways I could just a few years ago has become an issue. Perceived or non perceived in my mind.
I applaud you and your realizations and understanding the reasons. However me (in my mind) wants both aspects.
The women I have dated have wanted to have both sides too and who can blame them? Because my CKD has largely taken that side of my ability does not in anyway mean that I don't really want to! In fact it's the opposite (in my mind). I've been there before and realize how frustrating it is for me, I can't imagine being on the other side. I've explained it's a combination of all the medical issues and medication I take but I can see vividly it becomes an "is it me" deal.
The person I'm semi dating now and I have been to that point on our first attempt at a relationship. I think that this issue was certainly an underlying factor in her ultimate decision to end it. She is 37 and I'm sure she wants and expects that part of her life not to be taken away. We have shared many great intimate moments only to come to that point that the mood changes, my body is in conflict with my thoughts and desires.
There isn't much I can do about it, I've seen my doctor and as per usual it's "here try this pill". I even went as far to actually try it and for me the results were not as promised not to mention you have to "plan" out when to take one and hope for the best!! LOL. That alone kills some of how special it is to be in that spontaneous moment.
It's a tricky subject and probably the single biggest factor we (I) have skirted around talking about in this post. Just knowing how your body reacts when it come to "the moment" can leave serious doubts and questioning yourself, why bother? No one (at least no one I know) wants to be a disappointment in this area!!! But inevitably, even if its not right away most of us will have to find a way to come to terms that it will effect us in proceeding to the psychical aspect of our relationships.
I know for a fact that "most" women (at least the ones I've dated and become serious with) are not wanting to lose their sensuality. It's a large part of the courting, attraction aspect in relationships not to mention an ego thing for men and women. Nor do or can I judge for wanting that aspect of a relationship. It's ingrained in our DNA. It's part of the reason we become attracted to a person. And for me (personal thoughts) it's a difficult issue to handle.
I can only go on so long before it comes to the point of being right there in the moment and hearing the warning sirens going off in my head that now after all this build up I'm not going to be able to preform in a "normal accustomed" way. After all, I made the decision and effort to take it to this point, fully understanding that disappointment and inevitable questioning of the other party thinking it is them is most likely going to happen. Even though I've attempted to be open about how my body reacts. I still very much enjoy the intimate times two can share.
As for me, I'm full into my CKD for 15 years now and the opportunity to have met that "right person" while I was still fully able to keep my side up (so to speak!) just will not happen. And I can certainly see from the other side how this can seem like just another excuse or rational behind what they perceive the real reason to be.
I can and do appreciate the women friends I have in my life but for me I'm left wanting more. Usually, in my experience, the relationship I want and the women I date platonic love is not the ultimate goal. I know for sure I want more than that. There may be a day that it fulfills my needs (and my partners needs) but now I want and expect more from her and from myself. Even if that is delusional.
Reconciling these wants and needs is where in lies the problem. My body may not function as I wish but boy my mind certainly does! And, who am I to take those needs and wants out of the equation for another person. Everyone wants to be able to experience that level of intimacy, it's a natural progression in seeking and finding a "true" life partner.
I have not even mentioned the emotional thoughts acted on or not that even though there is a true deep love for each other one may wander elsewhere to fulfill the "other" part of the relationship (a thought that has more than once popped into my head). That's not an avenue I wish to go down however, like I said who am I to deny anyone from the physical needs they have? But the green monster, jealousy now becomes a factor that can quickly and easily ruin what might otherwise be a wonderful relationship. I don't think any of us can deny that, we are not talking about "first time" experience here so there is good reason to feel that way. In my personal case I've been down that road and its the main reason I've never married. I'm a one woman type of man and expect/require that from someone special in my life.
I'm certainly happy and encouraged by your understanding and faithfulness. Its sweet and your amazingly strong woman to have the relationship you have. I do not wish you to take what my emotional needs and wants are as a slight on the relationship you enjoy, quite the opposite. I really admire you and him for having what sounds to be the "one" person for you in life. And appreciate your reading between the lines, seeing how the physical side of a relationship is a large underlying issue in our thoughts and posts here. I think you nailed it! Put out a great point to where we are going and what our expectations are and I thank you for that. Because honestly it's been there all along but it's easier not to think or talk about it.
CKF has been such a weird ride for me. Mostly because to look at me from the outside you could never imagine I was sick and have all the health issues I do. It's a blessing and simultaneously a curse!! Simple fact of the matter is the general population does not have the knowledge or understanding of this disease as they do say cancer, MS or other diseases that seem to have the benefit of a spotlight being shined on them. And to me looking at the numbers of people affected by CKF seems to be quite large. I've often wondered why it is not one of those diseases people recognize or have a cursory understanding of. It may well be the fact that I could stand right next to anyone and appear to be perfectly fine. Until such a time comes it is up to us to bring CKD into the light by educating more and more people. I have had the true blessing (in my personal opinion) to experience life with a transplant (and hold hope for another) but even then life does not just go back to "normal" and in my experience most really believe that transplantation is a total complete cure. Never fully understanding like dialysis it's simply a patch not a cure! Of course maybe it has been for some but in the many many years I've dealt with CKF I've seen transplant actually make things worse acutely or long term.
Well I'm sure I could go on and on for days!! But I think my point is made and this post is plenty long enough!! :)
I so enjoy being engaged here on IHD forums. It really helps to take in the views and experiences of other riding on the same ship!
Regards, G.
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Well Melanie my kind of girlfriend, I'm still not positive!! LOL. just got back from a 5 day cruise. We had fun but she is still moody and weird at times. I had our beds separated when I booked but when we got to the room it was one bed. So no big deal we can sleep in the same bed. I'm still taking things very very slow. We had fun with plenty of things to do on the ship and a full day in Cozumel. Still working things out about how or if this relationship will go. I had the cruise because I needed to cancel so when I got the email I had to use it or loose it we booked it. When I go alone I have to pay full rate. So since I already paid for the cruise I invited her. Only things we had to pay was booze and activities. We still didn't get physical. I didn't intend on it or expect it so that's fine for me. I just wonder what she thinks. Maybe she thinks I've put her in the friends zone. I just think that since the last time I want and expect her to chase me this time. So I have not done anything to really try for a physical either. Sometimes we just don't seem to communicate well. I sometimes don't follow what she wants. It seems like she try's to skirt around just being clear!! I guess I'll never get women! LOL. Any way so after spreading v-day, lots of time together and a5 day cruise I STILL have no clue as to how things are going!!! Guess time to man up and talk about it!! G
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From a woman's perspective, you need to talk to her! I always feel better when the cards are on the table and expectations are clear. You seem like a great guy. Maybe companionship is enough? If not, keep moving forward until you find what you need and want. You deserve to be happy. Don't settle for less. Glad you had a good vacation. Good luck and hope it works out the way you want it to! :2thumbsup;
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Geoff,
Sit down and talk to her about your intentions and ask her point blank her intentions. I have been with the same man for 8 years. We were together 2 years before I started dialysis. The one thing i learned is to ask the tough questions out in the open, it's the only way, since games just hurt people.
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Geoff, I do understand your concerns but I think you are being to hard on yourself and her. I've been in her shoes. I've left a guy who really cared a lot about me and he got hurt badly. I realized I was wrong and wanted him back the same way thing use to be. Like you, he was very leery of my motive. He was accepting me back from a 10 foot pole sort of speak. He was not the same person I use to know. I felt I did not know this guy. He explained to me that he wants to take it slow because I really hurt him and he does not want to get hurt again. Well for a few months it was okay as I was waiting for the guy I use to know. Anyhoo, to make a long story short, I became very moody and frustrated because I did not know how long he was going to put me through the ring. So finally, I told him his actions were making me feel distance. He kept saying the same things over and over again to the point we both got into a nasty argument and we went our separated ways for good.
What I'm trying to say is that you have to forgive her and show her that you forgave her. She's trying to do things your way but it seems like you are making her suffer for leaving you. What's more important now, is that she is back and wants to show you how sorry she is and want to start something with you. However, you have a wall up and it's hard for her to knock that wall down. At least give her a small window if you are not going to open the door. It seems like you are talking to her through a close window. You cannot have a healthy relationship if you keep holding on to the past. Do you want her or not? If not, then let her go so she can move on. Stop making her paid for what she done in the past. We are not perfect human beings. We will make mistakes. Just like if you made a mistake by hurting someone and you were truly sorry, you wouldn't want him or her to hold that over your head? Let it go Geoff, and enjoy your girl while she is still there.
:bestwishes;
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What I'm trying to say is that you have to forgive her and show her that you forgave her. She's trying to do things your way but it seems like you are making her suffer for leaving you. What's more important now, is that she is back and wants to show you how sorry she is and want to start something with you. However, you have a wall up and it's hard for her to knock that wall down. At least give her a small window if you are not going to open the door. It seems like you are talking to her through a close window. You cannot have a healthy relationship if you keep holding on to the past. Do you want her or not? If not, then let her go so she can move on. Stop making her paid for what she done in the past. We are not perfect human beings. We will make mistakes. Just like if you made a mistake by hurting someone and you were truly sorry, you wouldn't want him or her to hold that over your head? Let it go Geoff, and enjoy your girl while she is still there.
I totally agree with this, Geoff!! And something tells me that you know it to be the right thing to do too! You never know what may happen. You need to sit down and communicate for sure, but stringing her on because of the past, is just not right for You or her. Talk to her and definately forgive. None of us are perfect, that is for sure. ESRD or not, its just common descency. The golden rule, right?
Good luck & God Bless,
lmunchkin :kickstart;
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:banghead; yea I agree. I don't think she has really changed her mind about me and really respects me and because she still is so difficult to be around sometimes (jekyll and hyde) I have a very hard time forgiving her. I just don't see any thing going differant this time around. I'm wasting my time hoping because I'm lonely and really want someone in my life. I don't think it is her. Time to talk and let the chips fall. I've given as much as I can to try and forgive but I think she had a one night of a beer too many and gave me hope telling me how she made a mistake and how great of a guy I am. But in reality she still treats me the same way and it didn't work because of that first time around. I gave it a shot, now I think it's time to get back out there and find a good woman. Anyone know any in Florida!?!?!? LOL. THX for your thoughts. I'm pretty clear where this is going and prolonging it any longer is just beating my head against the wall!! G.
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And I'm not mad at you; do what you feel is right. You are a handsome man based on your picture and you will find someone else. I'll put you in prayer that God will bless you with a good woman just be ready for her. 8)
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@NoahVale. I graduated from Vanderbilt University while doing hemodialysis. I would get off and walk a block back to my room. This includes rain, heat, and snow. My plan is to take science courses and someday become a doctor. I am now on PD and looking to intern at an organization called FasterCures. I've read this story before and was looking for it. Thanks for posting.
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And I'm not mad at you; do what you feel is right. You are a handsome man based on your picture and you will find someone else. I'll put you in prayer that God will bless you with a good woman just be ready for her. 8)
I never got the feeling you were mad at me!! I think you gave excellent insight and advise. Your pretty much dead on!! I do really like her (99% of the time) but it how she treats me that is not acceptable to me. I'm a grown man and she is used to spending all her time with her 15 year old son. So she tends to talk to me like a child not a peer and I hate to say this but I'm much smarter than she is (not bragging just true) so she needs to find a way to relate to me as adult. It's a big problem for me. I'm used to being respected and people come to me for help with problems. She is no dummy but intellect wise we just are not at the same level. That does not bother me. We all have differant levels if education and street smart. It's the treating me so nasty like chastising me at times right in front of her son that really gets my blood boiling. I'm non confrontional so I won't stand up and waste my time arguing back especially when her son is there. It's not the adult thing to do. I'm not feeling this relationship moving in a good direction. I think it's time to have a heart to heart sit down and see what becomes of it. I'm trying to forgive but her falling into the same patterns does put even more blocks up on my huge wall. Time will tell. But at our ages people rarely change non do I expect someone to HAVE to change to be with me. If that's how she wants to live great. Your right, I have plenty of opportunities out there, just a matter of finding the right one for me. All I want is some peace and grace in a healthy relationship. I don't think I'm asking too much!! G.
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