I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: Transplant Discussion => Topic started by: Epoman on October 17, 2006, 08:54:49 AM
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WARNING USE OF VULGAR LANGUAGE
Here is a little INFO before the MAIN story:
My brother and I are 10 years apart, he is married and I am married so we have that in common and we both like playing video games online against each other. When he was younger I was already married but I included him in things like going to amusement parks, movies, just hanging out. We have had our problems but they were me just being a big brother, for example I fought hard to get him away from this one girl who was using him hardcore and treating him literally like shit. Well I finally succeeded and he is in now love with the woman of his dreams who treats him great and he is happily married. My mother is a crazy woman, literally who....well just to give you an idea of the mentality of my mother, she thinks that my son is not her grandchild because I am not her daughter, yes you read that right read it again slowly. My mother has not worked in 15 years and lives...actually I have no idea where she lives, my brother and I only hear from her when she needs to "borrow" money. My dad and her are divorced. So to get back to my brother and I we don't have the closes relationship but we do have a relationship, we talk on the phone a lot and we go out once in a while.
Here is the story/rant:
I always knew the "answer" but I just never asked, WELL I DID and.. It's p*cked up! So as you know I have been on dialysis for 13 years straight and I have had MANY complications throughout the years, and I started dialysis when my brother was about 11 so obviously I could not get a transplant from him and so I figured he would volunteer when he was 18, I mean I assumed, well he turned 18 then 19 and nothing so I just let it go and I dropped hints throughout the years. I figured I would wait and eventually my "loving brother" would offer a kidney since he is 6' 7" 300 pounds and in PERFECT health, and has only been in the hospital one time in his life. So I would just continue to drop hints even though every time I would, he would get very serious and have a look on his face like someone shit in his "Cheerios". So again I let it go. Well now he is 23 years old and has been married for over a year and I figure what the hell he is married now and he has grown up and lived his youth, I am sure if I give him a call (don't start asking why did you call him for something so important? That's how we communicate, over the phone) and ask him and he may just do it. So I start out by asking him why he gets all serious when I start talking about my dialysis or transplants, I even joked around saying I may go to the Philippines to buy a kidney, the phone just stayed quiet. I asked him are you there and said in a voice like someone was twisting his sack, "yeah" I asked him well Josh will you give me a kidney? Again silence, I asked him what's wrong? Talk to me what's the problem are you scared? Again silence not one word out of his mouth. I said please Josh talk to me, you know all the problems I have been going through and have seen me in the hospital dozens of times, I said don't you love or care about me, I told him you know I want to live long enough to see my son grow up. AGAIN silence not one single word, not even a "sigh" I couldn't even hear him breathing. I told him JOSH please talk to me give some respect tell me something, FINALLY I get a response "I don't know what you want me to say" So after thinking to myself OK my brother is a retard, I told him I want you to say yes or no it's very simple, yes I will give you a kidney or no I don't want to. I told him Josh, I will still love you even if you say no and I won't hold it against you just tell me yes or no. AGAIN silence not one mother-freaking word came out of his mouth. So I said JOSH come on be a man and have the balls and give me enough respect to tell me YES or NO. I proceeded to explain the procedure to him like I have many times before in the past but never actually asking him for the kidney. I told him all the usual facts and risks and I went on and on. So finally after me talking for about 5 minutes, I asked him so what do you think? AGAIN SILENCE, not one word came from his mouth. I was now getting mad as all hell but I remained calm. I asked him Josh, PLEASE do I have to beg you just at least say NO then, guess what he told me? "I don't know what you want me to say" OK now I was really p*cking pissed because now either my brother is really a retard or he just does not give a shit about me and has no idea of all the shit I have gone through since he has not even been "really" chronically sick, the one time he was in the hospital it was because he had an abscess in his tooth and I even went to visit him and keep him company. So I said to him what the hell do you mean, I want you to be man enough to tell me NO if that's the answer or even tell me a "maybe" because you are unsure. I said do you have to ask mom? or Margie? (Margie is his wife) again silence but he did say yeah ask mom. OK now I know for years my mother of the year has told him to NEVER give me a kidney because I got what I deserve! She says I got what I deserved because I moved out of her house as soon as I was 18 and she was pissed, she could not let me go emotionally. So for years she drilled my brothers head not to give me a kidney. So I told him "ASK MOM" are kidding me? I told him "you are a 23 year old full grown married man, can't you make a decision on you own?" Again silence. Then I stayed silent then he said to me I got to go now. I told him p*ck JOSH at least tell me yes, no, maybe, p*ck off and die, anything just tell me something. I told him Jesus JOSH I would give you a kidney in a heartbeat, you're my brother and I love and care about you and wouldn't want you to suffer, I asked him don't you love me? I heard him say "yeah" but he said it like someone was holding an ice pick to his ear and making him say it. I then said OK so please have the decency to tell me yes or no, I told him right now Josh you have my heart pounding because I am so upset. I told him Josh If you don't want to give me a kidney I understand and I will still love you and we can forget about it, but damn it at least tell me something, talk to me we are brothers. He tells me I have to go, I'll call you later, then CLICK.........The phone went dead. I sat there shocked, I waited a few hours and called him back and he phone just went to his voice mail. I called several times and even left voice mails and no answer. So far two days have passed and nothing, he has not called back.
I guess I always knew the answer, but I never wanted to find out. And please don't reply and make this a "oh so you now want a transplant now thread" this thread is about my brother acting the way he did. I was just exploring my options concerning the transplant.
- Epoman
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That really sucks epoman! Sounds like your mom may have filled his head with shit for so long that he may just not know what to do or say. Still that is no excuse for not just laying it on the line and saying well mom said or I think.... Maybe he just needs some time to think about it too who knows. You should not get too upset about it. You made an effort and you should feel good about that. Now you have it out there and maybe after some consideration and thought he will at least talk with you about it. I can imagine it is extremely difficult to put yourself out there like that and the way he reacted is very hard to deal with but you have enough to handle on a day to day basis without worrying about his reaction. You tried and that is all you can do now it is up to him I guess. I truly hope he takes some time and carefully considers his options and talks to you about how he feels. Good luck.
Geoff
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Epoman, I am so sorry, that's awful. I have a brother and a sister. My sister would gladly give me a kidney but she can't because she's diabetic. My brother, on the other hand, has just avoided the subject. I've considered a few times if I should ask him if he would give me a kidney, but I haven't been able to get up enough courage to ask him yet.
If you're like me, it probably took so much for you to get to the point you could ask him, and then to get that reaction from him is just terrible. I agree with Geoff, hopefully he'll take some time to think it over and he'll at least talk to you about it. It would probably help if he'd at least have a conversation with you about it, not just dismiss you!
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I know how hard it can be when you feel that your family should offer to you if they truely care about you. But you also have to put yoruself in his shoes. How many years has your mom drilled his head with not donating to you? How important is your mom's acceptance to your brother? Would your mother disown him if he went against her wishes? Maybe your brother has a lot of fear (doesn't want to end up like you .. like my brothers fear is) and feels pressured by your years of hints thrown toward him that he seemed not to catch but obviously is very aware of.
I feel for you but you probably got more hurt because you have been carrying this on your shoulders for awhile yourself. But you needed to ask. You don't know unless you ask. When he comes back to talk you might want to say you had in on your mind for years but didn't want to push. Maybe by then he will be ready to talk. Maybe he is just worried your mom will disown him? I know for awhile my mom did so it is not beyond me for a mother to do that.
Don't give up hope. :cuddle;
I just hope your brother talks to you again soon. He probably just needs time for now. Let him maul it over in his head and call you back in his own time.
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:'( I am sorry your brother isn't as strong as you are emotionally. Sometimes our friends are our chosen family.
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I am so sorry about what you went through with your brother. You must feel physically exhausted and emotionally bankrupt.
I think that those of us who have health problems don't realize how strong it has made us. Compared to those of us who manage to deal and still live our lives, most other people just don't have the strength. We forget what a scary issue all this can be.
All I can say is that I hope your brother finds the emotional fortitude to at least say that he's sorry for not giving you an answer.
Take care.
Cora
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Pardon the reaction, but what a dickhead your brother is!!!
I am going to take my big stick and beat him over the head with it! Okay?
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That really sucks. I'm hoping he's just scared and doesn't know how to verbalize that very well. Wait and see. Maybe he'll surprise you yet.
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I am so sorry you had to go through that. Unfortunately some people are emotional infants, and haven't a clue how to behave. It's one thing for your brother to be hesitant to donate. It is an entirely different story for him to treat you so shabbily. I am sure he will come to his senses and call you back with an explanation.
We are all here for you and support you.
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Give him a little time to think about it, maybe now that you have brought it up, he is thinking on it, dont give up Epoman, your time will come my friend...
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I've read this several times and I really don't know what to say except that I'm sorry that happened to you, and your brother probably wishes he were as strong, and brave, and productive as you.
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I have two sisters and a brother and none of them have offered. That is why I just say I don't want a living donor because I can't take the rejection. I think it would change my relationship with them if they said "no." I would be hurt.
Have one of these. :wine; (actual size)
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Thank you all for your comments, a few days have passed now and he still has not called. Oh well I wish he was just man enough to tell me p*ck off to my face.
I have already given orders to my wife and my dad to NOT let him be a pallbearer at my funeral when I die.
Discuss?
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Your feelings are totally understandable. To me, the hurtful part is the silence. Anyway, you just continue to handle it, and let him go his way. In the end, he will be the hurting one.
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Our funeral is our last say. You do what you want. I often think about what I want. When I hear a good song...etc
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Discuss?
Your funeral, you do what you want, although all this will probably be behind you by then. I did want to point out that by you asking him "don't you love me?" it may have put him on the defensive, not that it excuses his behavior whatsoever. :cuddle;
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When I die, I want to be in the coffin with my ass straight up in the air. That way, everyone can come by and kiss it 1 last time, family first of course.
My family doesn't even know I'm sick Epoman, and they never will find out from me. I know what any of my brothers or sisters would say if I asked for any kind of help, specially a kidney. I'm sad for you that your brother wont even respond to your request. To hell with him, if you want a kidney, get it from a stranger, because it sounds to me, if he would give up a kidney for you, you'd be under his thumb the rest of your life. :twocents;
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I wouldnt really put too much into him not saying anything at the moment.
Give it some time. Such decisions should not be may hastly and spur of the moment. Live organ donation can be very scary to some people. Makes people confront their own possible death when they are not ready for it.
He seems to have some reservations about such a procedure because in the back of his mind it is a major thing to give up a organ. Many things are most likely running through his head that he may die, or what if his kidney failed after donation, etc etc.
IMO the reason he may not have said anything was because it is a big decision to made right then and there and that even though he loves you he may not want to say no because if he does it will in some way in his mind say that he doesnt love you and that he feels it may hurt your feelings in some way and he wants to avoid that happening. He is probably very conflicted over the matter of fearing for his own health and wanting to help you.
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I wouldnt really put too much into him not saying anything at the moment.
Give it some time. Such decisions should not be may hastly and spur of the moment. Live organ donation can be very scary to some people. Makes people confront their own possible death when they are not ready for it.
He seems to have some reservations about such a procedure because in the back of his mind it is a major thing to give up a organ. Many things are most likely running through his head that he may die, or what if his kidney failed after donation, etc etc.
IMO the reason he may not have said anything was because it is a big decision to made right then and there and that even though he loves you he may not want to say no because if he does it will in some way in his mind say that he doesnt love you and that he feels it may hurt your feelings in some way and he wants to avoid that happening. He is probably very conflicted over the matter of fearing for his own health and wanting to help you.
Right then and there? He has seen me suffer with Kidney Disease and dialysis for the last 13 years straight. He has had plenty of time to think about it, if the roles were reversed I would have offered years ago. I understand what you are saying but he totally disrespected me by not even responding and telling me he would call me back at 8:30pm, well that was 4 days ago.
I have done so much for him in his life and I have helped him financially and mentally, I have been there whenever he has needed me. And he treats me this way? He can take his kidneys and shove them up his ass, I wouldn't take his kidney now. It's about respect, I'd rather die with dignity, fighting the good fight then BEG my brother for a kidney. I bet he would give his WIFE a kidney? Of course she wouldn't HAVE to ask, he would volunteer.
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That brings up a good point. He is married now and she has a big say. A woman thinks of her family or potential family first. The hell with his family. My sister-in-law told my brother she would divorce him if he gave me a kidney. After all one of her kids may need one someday. They had one at the time. Then two others came along. THEN she divorced him.
Maybe they had discussed it and she said "no" and he didn't want you to think he was a pussy by her making the decision. Don't know, but that is what happened to me.
Although, now my brother could make his own decision and has not offered. YEA, best to go with a dead stranger.
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That brings up a good point. He is married now and she has a big say. A woman thinks of her family or potential family first. The hell with his family. My sister-in-law told my brother she would divorce him if he gave me a kidney. After all one of her kids may need one someday. They had one at the time. Then two others came along. THEN she divorced him.
Maybe they had discussed it and she said "no" and he didn't want you to think he was a pussy by her making the decision. Don't know, but that is what happened to me.
Although, now my brother could make his own decision and has not offered. YEA, best to go with a dead stranger.
Yes all that is true and a possibility, however they have only been married for about a year and they only knew each other a short while. So what about all the other years before she came along? But I can definitely understand about wanting to save his kidney for his future child, but my brother is not that "deep" or responsible, his life revolves around buying the newest XBOX game that comes out. My brother is 24 but he has the mind of a 14 year old, I love him but it's true. I guess that is why I made my subject for this post, "I always knew the "answer" but I just never asked, WELL I DID AND.." ::)
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I can't predict what the outcome will be, but I can tell ya that I think your
brother is a wimp and a mama's boy and probably wife-whipped too. He
never offered and I bet he was praying that phone call would never come.
Hey, that's his choice, it's ok to say no. But to treat you like you're asking
for money to support your gambling habit, or a ride to the crack dealer,
not even having the compassion to see how you were feeling, having to
ask him for help. UGH.
Sorry Epoman. Families suck. Both my sister's and my brother have PKD
and are probably going to need transplants. I have always figured I would
donate to one of them. My fear is that they'll all need it at once and I would
have to choose! Nightmare!
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I can't predict what the outcome will be, but I can tell ya that I think your
brother is a wimp and a mama's boy and probably wife-whipped too. He
never offered and I bet he was praying that phone call would never come.
Hey, that's his choice, it's ok to say no. But to treat you like you're asking
for money to support your gambling habit, or a ride to the crack dealer,
not even having the compassion to see how you were feeling, having to
ask him for help. UGH.
Sorry Epoman. Families suck. Both my sister's and my brother have PKD
and are probably going to need transplants. I have always figured I would
donate to one of them. My fear is that they'll all need it at once and I would
have to choose! Nightmare!
I knew I would like you. ;) And you are correct he is wife-wipped to the extreme. He married his second girlfriend, the first girlfriend treated him like shit, and so when this woman came along and treated him nice AND took his virginity, he was in love. When ever we had gone out the 4 of us, me and my wife and him and his wife, he always had the look on his face like he was worried I would say thing that would offend her, but I didn't care I was just being myself and if she didn't like it too bad. Don't get me wrong she is a good woman and treats him nice, but it's so obvious to everyone on our side of the family that he walks on eggshells. Like I said, she gave him two things he never experienced before "a love of a women" and "sex" so yeah, he is whipped big time. I love my brother and I have told him to his face he is whipped, but I have supported him in all the decisions he has made in his life so that should count for something. BTW this is day number 5 and I am still waiting for his phone call, remember I said earlier he told me he would call back at 8:30pm ::) I will NOT call him first, and if that is how he wants to end our relationship then so be it. I did no wrong, so I can rest easy knowing that all I did was ask my brother for a kidney 13 years after I started dialysis, and he decided to never talk to me again so I'll let GOD judge us.
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EPO there are some things I don't understand here. Many times you've stated that you weren't interested in a transplant. You said that you didn't want to deal with the uncertainty of the kidney failing at some point or having to start and then stop a career depending on the status of the graft. Now you are saying that you want a transplant which is good but that you are mad because your brother is uncomfortable with being asked to donate. I think also you are stating clearly that you feel he "owes" you a kidney because you've been a good brother over the years etc. Nobody owes anyone a kidney no matter how the recipient wants to rationalize it. One of my prospective donors sounded like a slam dunk but then went away and stopped talking to me without a word. Now this is a woman I see at work every day and if I said her name you would recognize it immediately because she is that well known in Los Angeles. Years later I asked her about that and she said matter of factly that "we weren't a match" which is what transplant centers instruct potential donors who have changed their minds to say to the prospective recipient. In this case the woman in question had already inquired about taking time off from work for the donation and had already been worked up by UCLA so draw your own conclusions like I did.
This is a delicate subject and it is charged with emotion. I'm happy that you want a transplant and I hope you get it and can put that Nxstage in the dumpster where it belongs. In the meantime why not get on the cadaveric list? You will eventually get a kidney that way and who is to say that it won't work great for many years? While you are on the list who is to say that another living donor might not come along?
A kidney is not something you can really ask for. If your friends and family know that you are in need it is best to let people who are interested come forward on their own. I think that putting pressure on someone is completely wrong. I also know how damn frustrating dialysis and the uncertainty of when and how a transplant might happen can be. I've lived both of those situations but for only a small fraction of the time you've had to deal with your problem.
Don't feel bad about how your brother handled the situation. He has probably thought more about it than you will ever know and he is obviously not comfortable with the idea. It is his body and his right to do what he feels is right for him.
Don't be discouraged but do what you can do right now and that is to get yourself on the cadaveric list and keep yourself healthy. It could take some years for that call to come but it could also come the day after you list.
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EPO there are some things I don't understand here. Many times you've stated that you weren't interested in a transplant. You said that you didn't want to deal with the uncertainty of the kidney failing at some point or having to start and then stop a career depending on the status of the graft. Now you are saying that you want a transplant which is good but that you are mad because your brother is uncomfortable with being asked to donate. I think also you are stating clearly that you feel he "owes" you a kidney because you've been a good brother over the years etc. Nobody owes anyone a kidney no matter how the recipient wants to rationalize it. One of my prospective donors sounded like a slam dunk but then went away and stopped talking to me without a word. Now this is a woman I see at work every day and if I said her name you would recognize it immediately because she is that well known in Los Angeles. Years later I asked her about that and she said matter of factly that "we weren't a match" which is what transplant centers instruct potential donors who have changed their minds to say to the prospective recipient. In this case the woman in question had already inquired about taking time off from work for the donation and had already been worked up by UCLA so draw your own conclusions like I did.
This is a delicate subject and it is charged with emotion. I'm happy that you want a transplant and I hope you get it and can put that Nxstage in the dumpster where it belongs. In the meantime why not get on the cadaveric list? You will eventually get a kidney that way and who is to say that it won't work great for many years? While you are on the list who is to say that another living donor might not come along?
A kidney is not something you can really ask for. If your friends and family know that you are in need it is best to let people who are interested come forward on their own. I think that putting pressure on someone is completely wrong. I also know how damn frustrating dialysis and the uncertainty of when and how a transplant might happen can be. I've lived both of those situations but for only a small fraction of the time you've had to deal with your problem.
Don't feel bad about how your brother handled the situation. He has probably thought more about it than you will ever know and he is obviously not comfortable with the idea. It is his body and his right to do what he feels is right for him.
Don't be discouraged but do what you can do right now and that is to get yourself on the cadaveric list and keep yourself healthy. It could take some years for that call to come but it could also come the day after you list.
Am I not allowed to change my mind or explore my options? But you are right many times I have stated I did not want a transplant, but I was exploring my options of possible donors in my family which is VERY small and the only viable option for a living-related kidney would be from my brother. I really resent your statement: I think also you are stating clearly that you feel he "owes" you a kidney because you've been a good brother over the years etc. I never said that nor did I imply that, I was simply using that to show that we do indeed have (had) a good relationship and that I have always been there for him, when he needed me. I understand that nobody in this world owes anybody anything. I am not upset that he said NO, I am upset about the fact that he didn't say "yes" or "no" but rather disrespect me by not talking and finally telling me he would call me back at 8:30pm and then hung up on me, well that was 5 days ago.
If my brother would at least talk to me about it and tell me he doesn't feel comfortable I would understand and I would respect his decision, but I have no respect for him right now, if he doesn't even have the "balls" to tell me no to my face, so he can spare HIS feelings, can you understand that? He does at least OWE me that, doesn't he? He may not owe me a kidney but he owes me a response. finally, I don't think asking for a kidney 1 time in 13 years, should be characterized as "putting pressure"
I may get on the list and I may not, as I said I was just exploring my options.
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I am sorry Epoman but I kinda agree with Livecam. Please don't take it wrong but you might have come across as feeling that he owed it to you even though I know you said clearly that he was free to say no. I get the impression (I might be 100% wrong as I don't know you or your brother) that he might have felt you wanted him to offer you a kidney for 13 years. You might never have asked all this time but maybe he felt pressure where there was none. I mean I found out that my brother feels pressured when I have never asked him even ONCE! It turns out my other brother who can't donate but would if he could has been pressuring my brother! So you never know ... you won't know until he talks. But as for who should come forward first .. you are both very stubborn. He is probably feeling like you should come forward because you were the one who came to him and asked. As you feel he should come forward as he was the one who said he would talk to you at a certain time. It is not a time to say who was in the wrong or right. It is just all emotions here but NO ONE is in the wrong. You won't know what is in his stubborn head until he opens up. But it seems that maybe he is intimidated by you? I can understand that.
Please don't get mad at what I say as I might be wrong. I am only going by what little information about this I have. Give it time. It will get better. And my last transplant was a cadaver. It lasted 11 years and that was without me being compliant with the medication! :P
I really hope it is okay that I shared here.
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I am sorry Epoman but I kinda agree with Livecam. Please don't take it wrong but you might have come across as feeling that he owed it to you even though I know you said clearly that he was free to say no. I get the impression (I might be 100% wrong as I don't know you or your brother) that he might have felt you wanted him to offer you a kidney for 13 years. You might never have asked all this time but maybe he felt pressure where there was none. I mean I found out that my brother feels pressured when I have never asked him even ONCE! It turns out my other brother who can't donate but would if he could has been pressuring my brother! So you never know ... you won't know until he talks. But as for who should come forward first .. you are both very stubborn. He is probably feeling like you should come forward because you were the one who came to him and asked. As you feel he should come forward as he was the one who said he would talk to you at a certain time. It is not a time to say who was in the wrong or right. It is just all emotions here but NO ONE is in the wrong. You won't know what is in his stubborn head until he opens up. But it seems that maybe he is intimidated by you? I can understand that.
Please don't get mad at what I say as I might be wrong. I am only going by what little information about this I have. Give it time. It will get better. And my last transplant was a cadaver. It lasted 11 years and that was without me being compliant with the medication! :P
I really hope it is okay that I shared here.
You agree with livecam and I disagree with you. You say no one was is in the wrong, but I believe my brother was because he is the one who would not even speak to me for simply asking, he is the one that lied and said he would call me back. As I mentioned before I don't believe anyone owes me anything I have fought this disease for 13 years without his help and I can fight it for another 13 without him. I was simply stating If the roles were reversed I would donate to him in a heartbeat, to me family is the most important thing in the world.
If my brother had told me no, yes I would have been hurt and upset but at least I would have respected him for being a man and stating his feelings and I would have dropped the matter and moved on. But by him not calling and ignoring my feelings and not giving me a shred of respect, he is in the wrong.
If you think I am being stubborn by not picking up the phone and begging him to talk to me again then so be it. So you are saying I should call him first and beg? Did you read my first post where I kept asking him to "please say something, talk to me at least?"
Bottom line is if my brother doesn't call me and explain himself to me, he is an insensitive asshole and dead in my book, does that make me sad to say that? Yes of course, but hey life goes on and I have faced many other gut wrenching times in my life, like when the doctor told me I will never walk again.
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Just looking at your description of the phone conversation, well if that was me on the other end I would of felt pressured. I do agree that not saying anything, and hanging up, wasnt a nice thing to do. I know how frustrating it is when you want to talk to someone but they just dont respond, and you start thinking all these reasons why they havent responded. They are probably thinking the total opposite to what you are thinking. He is still young, you could probably even say he is still a kid in a way. At 24 I would think giving someone a kidney would be a huge decision, and it would definitely have to involve my husband, kids etc. I would say if your mother has been drumming it into him not to give him a kidney since he was a young child, then I dare say that could be a reason why he is acting this way. When you are told something repeatedly from a young age, it just sticks. It doesnt matter what you do, it sticks.
I do hope he comes and talks to you, and in the mean time work on getting on the list. I waited 9 months and got 7 good years, so there is hope.
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I don't think epoman was implying that his brother "owed" him a kidney, just a discussion on the possibility of donating. That is the main issue here in my opinion. After 13 long years and all the thoughts and emotions epoman has had about transplantation he was looking for some "love" from his brother to get a feel on him and his thoughts on him donating and getting a transplant period.. a family discussion with someone close to you. I think that is all epoman was asking for. It is a shame that we and maybe his brother think that way automatically, epoman was simply looking for someone to discuss the situation ask for open thoughts on if this was a possibility. Hang in there epoman sounds like you have a wonderful family (wife and child) to talk to and maybe someday your brother will be adult enough to sit down and rationally talk to you about options and everything you have been thru! If not then you know that he is incapable of having a loving adult conversation with you about your heath, how you feel and the options available. I also don't agree about not asking for a kidney.. now I am not saying you go up to someone and say "hey you have a kidney to spare wanna get tested and donate it to me?". But a simple conversation with close friends and relatives is a healthy discussion to have and we all know the facts.... living donors are better period! So keep on keeping on epoman and let's hope things will change or at least you can have an adult conversation with your brother.
Geoff
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There is pressure, when someone asks you a favor, if you don't want to do it. But it's his BROTHER asking!
Epoman, I think it took courage to ask. Unfortunately you had expectations of a man who
is unable to give you the kind of loving response (and a yes, no or maybe) that you had hoped for. So
accept it, his silence speaks volumes.
I have found that total strangers are more willing to donate to our daughter than friends or family or
community members. I recently met a guy who jokingly asked on his tattoo forum "Anyone want to
give ma a kidney?" and guess what? Some guy said "Sure, I'll do it." Surgery was in May.
I think living donors are special, compassionate people who see a need and are wiling to help. Yours
is out there, just waiting to make the offer. You just haven't been open to a transplant, so no one has
offered. Perhaps if you keep "exploring options" then the opportunity will present itself.
I can't remember - they were changing the rules so that the beginning of wait time is no longer the
date you were listed - but was supposed to now be the date you began dialysis. Did this change take place?
If so, you can get evaluated by a transplant team and be in a very good position for a non-living kidney.
~Karol
I dunno, I guess you'll have to forgive your brother and let it go. Call him up and say "Hey, I was just kidding about
the kidney bro, can't ya take a effing joke? Hope to see you guys on Thanksgiving!"
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I dunno, I guess you'll have to forgive your brother and let it go. Call him up and say "Hey, I was just kidding about
the kidney bro, can't ya take a effing joke? Hope to see you guys on Thanksgiving!"
Ya I agree on giving him a quick call to open the door back up so that he feels safe to call you. He might now be freaked. You don't know until he opens up.
Anyway, only reason I say that is because your situation reminds me of one you would expect to see on one of those shows .. where 2 brothers don't talk for years and down the road they realize that if they would have only talked things would have been different. Like maybe he misunderstood and he would have given a kidney if he had the facts but he was too scared to say ya sure because he worried he would be on dialysis and didn't think he could be as strong and the other brother who needed the kidney felt unloved because of the other brothers reaction.
I could be wrong ...
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I know this is not what anyone wants to hear but has anyone taken into consideration what kind of shock this would bring on to a family member who even though he/she may have been expecting this question to come up, what there were never actually ready for it? Not to sound like I am siding with the brother here but it does sound like Epoman pressured his brother pretty hard and didn't even give him a chance to prepair for such a serious question.
Epoman, I know that I know nothing about your family issues but could there be any truth behind what your bother said about your mother telling him not to donate a kidney to you? Or could it be possible that your mother's spite of you has rubbed off on your bother? I don't think you can blame your bothers reactions in such haste. I mean, put yourself in his shoes. Have you ever considered how you would want to be asked that same question? I know you said that you love your bother enough that you would give him a kidney at the drop of a hat but, put all that aside. What does your brother know about your condition, really?
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I dunno, I guess you'll have to forgive your brother and let it go. Call him up and say "Hey, I was just kidding about
the kidney bro, can't ya take a effing joke? Hope to see you guys on Thanksgiving!"
Ya I agree on giving him a quick call to open the door back up so that he feels safe to call you. He might now be freaked. You don't know until he opens up.
Anyway, only reason I say that is because your situation reminds me of one you would expect to see on one of those shows .. where 2 brothers don't talk for years and down the road they realize that if they would have only talked things would have been different. Like maybe he misunderstood and he would have given a kidney if he had the facts but he was too scared to say ya sure because he worried he would be on dialysis and didn't think he could be as strong and the other brother who needed the kidney felt unloved because of the other brothers reaction.
I could be wrong ...
Oh sure, I'll give him a call right away ::)
"Hey Bro, I was just kidding about possibly giving me a kidney" or how about this "Hey bro I'm sorry I asked if you would consider giving me a kidney, it was very, very wrong of me" or how about this one "Hey bro, I'm an insensitive prick for asking you in the first place, can you ever forgive me, please? or maybe even "Hey bro, how's the pissing thing working out for ya?"
I will die on dialysis before I beg him again to please talk to me. I will die with my dignity in tact. Believe me it's his loss not mine.
Also I am getting real tired of people defending his actions of totally disregarding my feelings. I don't give a flying p*ck about him saying yes or no. I am pissed that he was silent, lied to me, and hung up on me. Can you people understand that? Some of you get it, but others are clueless. He has seen me in my darkest hours, throwing up buckets of blood, surviving Cancer, 13 years of dialysis, multiple surgery's, and he has the audacity to hang up on me and ignore me? AND YOU WANT ME TO CALL HIM AND BEG HIM TO TALK TO ME? p*ck THAT!!!!!!
Let me repeat myself for those who read between the lines, I KNOW HE DOESN'T OWE ME A KIDNEY, BUT HE DOES OWE ME RESPECT, NOT BECAUSE I AM SICK BUT BECAUSE WE ARE BROTHERS.
(Angie, just for clarification I was not talking to you directly, I was talking to EVERYONE, I was just quoting you)
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"Hey bro, how's the pissing thing working out for ya?"
I like that one :P Maybe he would realize things from your point of view with that one ;)
You should NOT apologize for asking! Infact, you asking has gotten me thinking .. on how to ask. I really don't know how to ask without upsetting someone. It seems like such a hard thing to do without cue from the other person that tells you that you can ask..
I will die on dialysis before I beg him again to please talk to me. I will die with my dignity in tact. Believe me it's his loss not mine.
Also I am getting real tired of people defending his actions of totally disregarding my feelings. I don't give a flying p*ck about him saying yes or no. I am pissed that he was silent, lied to me, and hung up on me. Can you people understand that? Some of you get it, but others are clueless. He has seen me in my darkest hours, throwing up buckets of blood, surviving Cancer, 13 years of dialysis, multiple surgery's, and he has the audacity to hang up on me and ignore me? AND YOU WANT ME TO CALL HIM AND BEG HIM TO TALK TO ME? p*ck THAT!!!!!!
Let me repeat myself for those who read between the lines, I KNOW HE DOESN'T OWE ME A KIDNEY, BUT HE DOES OWE ME RESPECT, NOT BECAUSE I AM SICK BUT BECAUSE WE ARE BROTHERS.
(Angie, just for clarification I was not talking to you directly, I was talking to EVERYONE, I was just quoting you)
Ah thank you for that because I wasn't sure (seriously hehe)
I have a tendency of trying to see the other side because I figure you already know your own side well enough ;) Just how I am. But honestly if I could I would go talk to him and tell him to stop being an idiot and give you SOME kind of answer which could be "I dunno bro .. I have to do a LOT more thinking about this as I have been in denial all this time.."
Just give it time. You did nothing wrong by the act of asking him. Maybe he just wasn't ready to be asked. He doesn't seem to be dealing with it very well and yet you have more to deal with than he does. I was just trying to explain his side just to help, but don't ever feel sorry for asking! :cuddle;
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I know this is not what anyone wants to hear but has anyone taken into consideration what kind of shock this would bring on to a family member who even though he/she may have been expecting this question to come up, what there were never actually ready for it? Not to sound like I am siding with the brother here but it does sound like Epoman pressured his brother pretty hard and didn't even give him a chance to prepair for such a serious question.
Epoman, I know that I know nothing about your family issues but could there be any truth behind what your bother said about your mother telling him not to donate a kidney to you? Or could it be possible that your mother's spite of you has rubbed off on your bother? I don't think you can blame your bothers reactions in such haste. I mean, put yourself in his shoes. Have you ever considered how you would want to be asked that same question? I know you said that you love your bother enough that you would give him a kidney at the drop of a hat but, put all that aside. What does your brother know about your condition, really?
OH p*ck ME! I pressured him pretty hard? I am getting really tired of hearing this. I asked him a question, not a stranger, not a friend, not a co-worker, MY ONLY BROTHER, I asked him "Would you consider giving me a kidney" then he would not even respond, he has had 13 years to prepare for this question, and to answer your question Jeff he knows EVERYTHING about what I have been through and knows all my health problems, read the post above this one where I quoted Angie.
My brother would not have to ASK in the first place if he needed a kidney. But what should I have done Jeff, took him to dinner and a movie first? Buy him a Plasma Screen? Then POP the question? How should I have asked him? Get my knee? Use a third party to causally bring it up? Offer to have Mitch broker the deal so he can buy a new car?
Yes my mother could have messed up his mind but that is no excuse, he is a grown man who doesn't even talk to his mother anymore. And again this is about him ignoring me and not respecting me enough to at the very least say "Hell no I won't give you a kidney"
(Again just for clarification, Jeff I am not mad at you for your post. I am just being a smartass)
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I can see your just being a smartass. :P No offense taken. 8)
I'm not saying you should wine him and dine him or anything. But seriously. You should have talked to him face to face about something like this firstly. That way, there is no way he could dodge the question with the "oh, sorry bro, gotta go" thing, you know? If say my sister was to ask me to donate a kidney, I would be much more comfortable if we got to talking about kidney disease and transplants and shit like that before I got popped with a question like that. Work me up to it. It's a very delicate matter and needs to be handled very carefully. You can't just go up to a bother, sister, mother, father or friend and say "hey, I need a kidney. Can you give me one of yours?" You might as well drop a piano on my feet. You see what I am getting at here?
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I can see your just being a smartass. :P No offense taken. 8)
I'm not saying you should wine him and dine him or anything. But seriously. You should have talked to him face to face about something like this firstly. That way, there is no way he could dodge the question with the "oh, sorry bro, gotta go" thing, you know? If say my sister was to ask me to donate a kidney, I would be much more comfortable if we got to talking about kidney disease and transplants and shit like that before I got popped with a question like that. Work me up to it. It's a very delicate matter and needs to be handled very carefully. You can't just go up to a bother, sister, mother, father or friend and say "hey, I need a kidney. Can you give me one of yours?" You might as well drop a piano on my feet. You see what I am getting at here?
Ok, I'll give you that, I guess I did mess up by using the phone. I should have asked him face to face. But the thing is we always talk on the phone he has a busy schedule and so do I, so the phone is where we "meet up" to talk about what's going on or what's new.
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If you wanted to, you could probably remedy this situation by saying something along the lines of, "It's kind of a serious subject, and hard to discuss over the phone. I didn't mean to overwhelm you. Let's plan to talk about it later when we both are face to face and have more time." I mean, let's face it. Apparently he needs to be treated like an adolescent since he's still acting like one. How else would you expect a teenager to react if approached for something like this. You didn't do anything wrong, but it may have been handled differently. Hindsight's 20/20, though. I just hate the idea of your relationship ending because you're too mad/proud to say anything to him and he's too freaked out/immature to call you. Maybe this is a time when you have to be the older brother and make the first move. :cuddle;
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Hey E - your ranting makes me laff - I am sorry - but it's priceless! Too bad your bro doesn't have the same flair.
I can be stubborn, and I don't care! I am like an elephant, I never forget. I will accept, adapt, and endure, but
I don't open myse;lf up to be reinjured by family members. It's survival. I agree, you were dissed. People who
love you don't do that to you. All the excuses in the world for your brother's response wouldn't convince me that
it's ok. You can choose to handle it however you want. It reminds me that my sister's 2 kids, who are 28 and 30
still LIVING AT HOME, working part time and basically being flakes - have never even suggested that maybe they
could help my daughter (not just with a kidney, which of course would be great, but they could have visited her,
or sat with her once in the hospital, or send a freakin e-card!) but they haven't. I try to let go of resentment, but
that one is gonna take a while.
K
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The word Brother means you would do anything to help no matter the cost period. Thats the way I see it. Turn your back on family and your a chump plain and simple. Anyone can get mad at this statement I don't care because it is the way I feel. I belong to a Motorcycle club and I would give my life for any one of my Brothers without hesitation, and their not even blood. When I was in the service I would have given my life to save a Brother in arms. So when it comes to BLOOD Brother the stakes would be the same if not higher.
Epoman you were hurt deep and have every right to feel the way you do.
I wish my kidneys were healthy, I wish I had hundreds of kidneys cause I would help everyone of you with a kidney no questions, no hesitation it would just be done.
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Hey Epoman - This may be off subject - but I don't know where to post it so I will give it to you to do what you will.
I know you'll tell me if you've seen it. Ok, so whenever someone DOES express interest in living donation, I give them the following:
I thought this video, forwarded to us by a kidney patient in Maryland, is a good overview of
Living Kidney Donation http://video.umms.org:8080/ramgen/living_donor_kidney.rm?usehostname
(Note: the first time I tried to open it I got a message that it couldn't open, but I tried again after a minute and it worked.)
It opens up the discussion and answers a lot of questions. For what it's worth.
~Karol
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I think it took lots of guts to ask your brother in the first place, after my husband was confirmed not to match for me , my brother hasn't offered to be tested my sister has but she isn't compatible, when ever it comes up about blood groups his excuse is he doesn't know his and the subject is dropped real quick . I haven't got any great advice as I'm to chicken to even ask mine, but i see where you are coming from just a yes or no would be start . ;D hang in there....
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I haven't asked my one brother neither. Mostly because my mom already told me that my other brother was pressuring him and he got mad and it was obvious it was a no. My mom said because he is terrified, saying he could never go through what I go through. He enjoys drinking and being a stud with no scars way too much I guess ::)
Well .. you know how it is with people like that lol
But there was a friend who asked about organ donation years ago (about 3 years ago) ... I guess she opened the door back then .. but it was so long ago .. how do I reopen that door now that my mom can't give me a kidney?
Btw, I just watched that Video! That was an excellent one! Thanks for posting that! I am putting that now on my site and on D&T City! :2thumbsup;
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It hit me when the guy said "it is one of the few times in life when you see someone suffering that you can do something".
That is so true. When a loved one is dying from cancer you hear people say they would "do anything" to help that person. But....would they? Is it all talk because they know there is nothing they can do??
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My friend. Compassion is the key word here. As much as you (and all of us) need a kidney, it's up to him to offer...and that has not happened just yet. You have to cool down, and understand him. Most likely is fear...to the unknown. You have to forgive him and try to understand him. At the end of the day, kidney or not, he is your brother. Don't bring up what you have done for him. We must give without asking for return. Sorry, but my advise here is YOU to call him and make peace. This kind of family wounds hurt more than not having kidneys.
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My friend. Compassion is the key word here. As much as you (and all of us) need a kidney, it's up to him to offer...and that has not happened just yet. You have to cool down, and understand him. Most likely is fear...to the unknown. You have to forgive him and try to understand him. At the end of the day, kidney or not, he is your brother. Don't bring up what you have done for him. We must give without asking for return. Sorry, but my advise here is YOU to call him and make peace. This kind of family wounds hurt more than not having kidneys.
Compassion goes both ways brother! Thanks for your advice but if you had read my previous posts, you would have read "I'd rather die than beg him to talk to me again "I did NO wrong here and I can rest easy at night. HE hung up on ME, HE lied to ME, He threw my feelings in the TRASH, WHY should I call him first? And please don't tell me because I am the older brother. Just to clarify, later that night, the night I asked him, I called after the time he said he would call which was 8:30pm and he did not answer his phone, I tired 5 times. I finally left a message, and now several days have passed. Should I call again and look like an idiot and BEG him to talk to me?
He is perfectly healthy right now and even though he has seen me go through so much turmoil he has NO idea what it is like being chronically ill, it gives me pleasure knowing his day WILL come however, as it comes for all of us. It's just that "It" comes sooner for some than others.
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You are hurting right now, but in time it will hurt less. You may have no idea what it is like to be brainwashed by your mother to never do a certain thing, and then one day you're asked and you freeze. He may be feeling so guilty and horrible and maybe that's why he "can't" call you.
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You are hurting right now, but in time it will hurt less. You may have no idea what it is like to be brainwashed by your mother to never do a certain thing, and then one day you're asked and you freeze. He may be feeling so guilty and horrible and maybe that's why he "can't" call you.
Oh I was brain washed for my entire life, for example my mom told me to never marry a WHITE girl (I am half white, half hispanic) because she said they are all whores. My mom is hispanic, but I ignored her and I didn't believe her and I married a very wonderful "white" girl. And NO I didn't just marry a white girl to spite her. I dated girls of all races.
My point is I am a MAN and I make my own decisions, my brother is a man and should be able to make his own decisions too, but he is not, he is a PUSSY.
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Epoman. Your bother is most likely scared shitless after seeing what you went through and he may not want to risk any chance he may have at a normal, healthy life. I honestly don't believe he knows ALL the facts and is just going off of what he has seen you go through. It's a shame you couldn't get him to join your site so he could learn more about you and your health issues.
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ya that is why this site is valuable. There are so many things we DONT learn from the docs but instead do here.
Thanks Epoman for your site! :2thumbsup;
That is why more people who are family or friends of a dialysis patient should come to sites like this ;)
Not just patients themselves and caretakers and wives/husbands ;)
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12 days and counting and still no phone call. One of my friends told me I just need to face the facts, that he doesn't love me as much as I love him and I believe he is right. I would never do anything like this to my brother.
Oh well......
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Sounds like good advice from your friend, Epoman.
I hope you don't cut him out of your life for good, though. Family is still important, no matter how screwed up they are. Unfortunately, emotional wounds hurt so much more than the physical ones. Your altered relationship with your brother is going to be one more bit of "new normal" to get used to in a long string of adjustments to being chronically ill.
Sometimes it feels to me like I'm chained to my illness like a dog staked in the yard. I can only run in circles in the same spot, with my illness in the middle, holding me back. Every wound and problem, physical or emotional, takes another link out of the chain; leaving me with less room to get away from being sick.
So, I hope this mess with your brother doesn't yank your chain for too long. . .
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12 days and counting and still no phone call. One of my friends told me I just need to face the facts, that he doesn't love me as much as I love him and I believe he is right. I would never do anything like this to my brother.
Oh well......
Don't listen to people who say your brother does NOT love you! You don't know what is in your brothers head until he opens up! But you can NEVER ASSume! It makes an ass out of you and .. well you know how the saying goes right?
Just realize that your brother is NOT an option for a kidney at this time. Move on but don't ever think your brother doesn't love you until the day he says that .. and even then that might not even be true!
But right now all you can count on is YOU and your immediate family (wife and son)!
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12 days and counting and still no phone call. One of my friends told me I just need to face the facts, that he doesn't love me as much as I love him and I believe he is right. I would never do anything like this to my brother.
Oh well......
Don't listen to people who say your brother does NOT love you! You don't know what is in your brothers head until he opens up! But you can NEVER ASSume! It makes an ass out of you and .. well you know how the saying goes right?
Just realize that your brother is NOT an option for a kidney at this time. Move on but don't ever think your brother doesn't love you until the day he says that .. and even then that might not even be true!
But right now all you can count on is YOU and your immediate family (wife and son)!
Exactly, I agree! I still stand by my opinion that he is probably scared to call since he knows he acted like an ass. I'd bet $$ that if Epoman called him and said what I suggested that he'd talk to him. The brother IS still being an ass though, but lots of family members are.
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It's too bad when family member you love act like asses. It seems to really hurt the heart. I think Epoman got a real nasty surprise when he talked to his brother. I know you know family is important. Give it time and be patient. Since he is not talking to you now, you will have plenty of time to wait him out.
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OK....This is driving me crazy :banghead;.....Did you all notice the beginning of the title of this posting...It is called RANT TIME.
I would be angry if my brother did not give me an answer. Silence is a killer. A cowards way out. I asked my brother (very badly by the way) and told him that yes or no, I would be fine with it. He said he would think about it and he did for a year. He was home for college for Thanksgiving (appropriate, don't you think?) and said "So, are we going to do this kidney thing, or what?" Anyway, my story turned out well.
Stop judging. Yes, in person may have been better for some, but how many times does Epoman have to explain that by phone is the way THEY communicate. Everyone is different.
I probably would not call back either. At least not now. He said he would call you. But with time who knows what will happen. Who will call who. That is nobody's business, but those involved. As the eternal optimist, I hope the brother has the courage to call and give his answer whatever it may be. Then maybe we can mend fences, but it will take time.
This is a hard one. We are friends here. Let us keep this forum as a safe haven to rant and rid ourselves of some anger. I certainly don't want to be judged.
Please notice that I am not picking on anyone specifically. I am responding to all postings as a whole.
The situation sucks, Epoman. I hope your brother has the balls to call you.
That is the end of my rant....
~A
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OK....This is driving me crazy :banghead;.....Did you all notice the beginning of the title of this posting...It is called RANT TIME.
I would be angry if my brother did not give me an answer. Silence is a killer. A cowards way out. I asked my brother (very badly by the way) and told him that yes or no, I would be fine with it. He said he would think about it and he did for a year. He was home for college for Thanksgiving (appropriate, don't you think?) and said "So, are we going to do this kidney thing, or what?" Anyway, my story turned out well.
Stop judging. Yes, in person may have been better for some, but how many times does Epoman have to explain that by phone is the way THEY communicate. Everyone is different.
I probably would not call back either. At least not now. He said he would call you. But with time who knows what will happen. Who will call who. That is nobody's business, but those involved. As the eternal optimist, I hope the brother has the courage to call and give his answer whatever it may be. Then maybe we can mend fences, but it will take time.
This is a hard one. We are friends here. Let us keep this forum as a safe haven to rant and rid ourselves of some anger. I certainly don't want to be judged.
Please notice that I am not picking on anyone specifically. I am responding to all postings as a whole.
The situation sucks, Epoman. I hope your brother has the balls to call you.
That is the end of my rant....
~A
This is what this board is for. If you rant, we try to help. We give our opinion, and we have a lot of different opinions. I don't think people were judging, I think they were giving opinions. You are right, we are all friends here, and friendly disagreement is part of what makes this forum so fantastic. :)
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OK....This is driving me crazy :banghead;.....Did you all notice the beginning of the title of this posting...It is called RANT TIME.
I would be angry if my brother did not give me an answer. Silence is a killer. A cowards way out. I asked my brother (very badly by the way) and told him that yes or no, I would be fine with it. He said he would think about it and he did for a year. He was home for college for Thanksgiving (appropriate, don't you think?) and said "So, are we going to do this kidney thing, or what?" Anyway, my story turned out well.
Stop judging. Yes, in person may have been better for some, but how many times does Epoman have to explain that by phone is the way THEY communicate. Everyone is different.
I probably would not call back either. At least not now. He said he would call you. But with time who knows what will happen. Who will call who. That is nobody's business, but those involved. As the eternal optimist, I hope the brother has the courage to call and give his answer whatever it may be. Then maybe we can mend fences, but it will take time.
This is a hard one. We are friends here. Let us keep this forum as a safe haven to rant and rid ourselves of some anger. I certainly don't want to be judged.
Please notice that I am not picking on anyone specifically. I am responding to all postings as a whole.
The situation sucks, Epoman. I hope your brother has the balls to call you.
That is the end of my rant....
~A
If you post it here.....it is our business. That is what this forum is. You don't want to hear our opinion or what we perceive as the truth then don't post here. Judging is sentensing someone. We are not doing that. With all opinions out there you can take or leave advice.
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Point taken. Maybe judging was too strong of a word. I certainly was not suggesting anyone was sentencing another. Maybe I was frustrated for the writer having to repeat himself/his opinion from previous postings.
Let's get back to the discussion.
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Point taken. Maybe judging was too strong of a word. I certainly was not suggesting anyone was sentencing another. Maybe I was frustrated for the writer having to repeat himself/his opinion from previous postings.
Let's get back to the discussion.
If you read throughout the forums you will see he repeats himself a lot since there are so many new members on a daily basis ;)
But ya we are like family here! We all care about Epoman and want to be supportive with advice and all ;)
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Point taken. Maybe judging was too strong of a word. I certainly was not suggesting anyone was sentencing another. Maybe I was frustrated for the writer having to repeat himself/his opinion from previous postings.
Let's get back to the discussion.
If you read throughout the forums you will see he repeats himself a lot since there are so many new members on a daily basis ;)
But ya we are like family here! We all care about Epoman and want to be supportive with advice and all ;)
This is true also. Even people like me care enough to lend a sympathetic ear and try to help. Even though it is hard for me to fully understand, I can still listen and provide support when I can.
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Hey EPOMAN,
I'm sorry to hear about your situation, i could only imagine how hard it is for you. I have some family also who should in my eyes of offered me help, but they didn't. And it gives you a bring wake up call of who really loves and cares for you.
I hope your brother comes to his senses. :(
Amanda
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Well 17 days and still counting, and still NO phone call, nice huh?
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Maybe he put his cell phone in a shark tank and can't get to it?
Maybe he lost his phone?
Maybe he got lost?
Maybe his brain got lost between reality and your phone number?
Maybe he is just a jerk!
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Actually, kitkatz, I know a lot of people with brains that get lost anytime they get anywhere near reality!
No words of wisdom, epoman. I'd have wrung his neck by now if he was related to me.
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Maybe he put his cell phone in a shark tank and can't get to it?
Maybe he lost his phone?
Maybe he got lost?
Maybe his brain got lost between reality and your phone number?
Maybe he is just a jerk!
DING, DING, DING, WE HAVE A WINNER JOHNNY!
I just can't believe this shit, It's actually COLD-BLOODED. This is beyond him being scared, or confused. I am going to PAY "Sluff" to ride over here and teach him what a "BROTHER" means. He can keep his kidney, but at least he can talk to me, DAMN.
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I feel for you Epoman. I think the peculiar situation that potential organ donors have to face reveals their true courage. Though my case is not similar to yours it got me thinking of a parallel for a while: last year when I learned that I would have to be on long term dialysis my mother immediately offered to give me a kidney. My sister was in the US at the time, but she called me once I was out of the hospital and told me she would also offer me a kidney without hesitation and that she was ready to fly back to Belgium to do so. A few weeks later during a conversation with a close friend of mine he asked me what my blood type was and since his matched mine he also offered me a kidney! I have to say I felt overjoyed on these three occasions, and even though I ended up refusing all these offers, I felt a new wave of optimism and happiness thanks to the selflessness that these three had displayed and their generosity towards me.
I never really thought about it much at the time but I also have two brothers who have the same blood type and they didn't offer me a kidney. In the case of my little brother, I kept him in the dark a little bit about the finer details of my disease so I'm not sure he understands that he's a potential donor. But my older brother is well aware, and although I never asked anyone for a kidney at any point, three people came forward spontaneously while he kept his mouth shut. It's irrelevant now - I feel good on dialysis and I don't want to 'vampirize' my family for the sake of avoiding a few dozen more dialysis sessions. But I wonder what would have happened if I had phoned him at some point with the same question Epoman had for his brother. I guess he would think about it and eventually he would do it. Or I'm hoping he would. Who knows?
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BTW Epoman, I was just thinking, isn't your brother aware of this site?
If so, don't you think he might have actually... read this thread???
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BTW Epoman, I was just thinking, isn't your brother aware of this site?
If so, don't you think he might have actually... read this thread???
Hi Fighter, yes he is aware of this site but even before all this, he never went to the site. He doesn't have a computer at his house or work, but still, I don't care if he does see this thread I have done nothing wrong. 21 days have passed now, 3 weeks and not one phone call. However a friend of mine saw him at the mall laughing and talking on his cell phone, so he had the time to call someone.
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Ok - I caught this thread a little late in the game, but after reading all 4 pages, I thought I would add my :twocents;
First - My sister and I went through a stubborn fight that lead to dead silence for over 3 years. For my entire lifetime I was always the one who called her after she hung up on me and after so many years I was sick and tired of it. We talk now that I'm sick again, but I don't feel bad about the 3 years we didn't speak. I have principles and I'm not sorry I stood up for myself. And you shouldn't either.
Second. - If you and your brother do begin to speak, and you feel like you want to bring it up again . . . Maybe if his problem is concerns for his own health it would help to talk to someone who has donated in the past. I will gladly offer up my mother to talk to him. It was a little rough at first, which she expected since they told her it would be like being hit by a train (because she was healthy) But after her in ital recovery she was good as new. She even party's a little bit ;) It couldn't have been that bad since she offered to give me her other one now.
Don't give up and don't give in!
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Very good advice Fox! :2thumbsup;
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... still no word from your bro, I guess, or you would have said...
well, your bro and the upcoming holiday both make me think of... TURKEY.
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... still no word from your bro, I guess, or you would have said...
well, your bro and the upcoming holiday both make me think of... TURKEY.
Nope, and today is the 1 month Anniversary of him basically telling me to "p*ck Off". He hasn't called me in 30 days. Well at least I will have more leftovers this year. ::)
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Well I would like to just update you all in case anyone of you were wondering. Over 40 days have passed and also "Thanksgiving" has come and gone and my brother did not call me. Please, please, please do not reply here telling me to call him, if you have read this entire thread you will know why I won't call him first.
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I've come to this thread late.
This is a distressing situation for all involved I am sure.
I wonder though, if he is 23 he is still relatively young. and perhaps has different priorities for HIMSELF. Perhaps also no matter how many times he has seen you suffering over 13+ years maybe part of him thinks "well it's OK, he's dealing.. he's been on it so long he can wait for a transplant from someone else" - note, I obviously don't know him and am hesitant to put words in his mouth (despite what I just wrote!). I don't know.
The main points I wanted to make in responding is a little off topic but I think still relevant to this thread.
I have been to a few transplant seminars here, education sessions and the like. One of the main things they have stressed, along with my Neph, is that one of the things you *shouldn't* do is ASK about it or put pressure on someone to donate. Please note, I am just relating what I have been told down here by people and not trying to suggest what Epoman has done is wrong or anything like that. Given the background I have had with a lot of stress on waiting for the donor to make the move rather than asking etc, this is why I find this thread interesting.
Personally this relates to me as follows: I have a brother and a sister. My sister is the same blood group and my brother isn't. Clearly they would be the best matches for me (my mother has passed away and was too sick to donate as much as she wanted, and my father is also unwell and a different group). So, my sister, the most obvious match appears scared to donate. It has come up in conversatin once or twice, and I have felt quite uncomfortable and had to tread carefully (given the advice given to me as above). She's asked a few questions and I've answered, but there's no way I could (or would) come out and ask "Well, will you donate or not?" simply because I would feel like I was putting pressure on to say yes, no, or otherwise... and then it's kind of implied that "if you don't want to donate you must not love me as much as you should" (or similar). I am not quite sure what her issue is and obviously I can't talk to her about it - I have no idea if anyone else has. Conversely my brother just last week went and saw my Neph and spent an hour discussing options for transplant - he seems very keen (and all I could pathetically say was "thank you so much for insigating this and willing to persue it" and I felt like that was so crappy like I couldn't express my surprise and happiness that at least he was willing to give it a go, even though the cross blood group could really cause problems.. Anyway they are doing tissue typing this week I believe to see...).
My understanding of how the general transplant process here goes, and not sure about the US or anywhere else, is apart from all the various medical tests you need to have. is that both parties also have a psych assessment to determine that there's no coersion going on and that the wish to donate etc is genuine and that they are aware of the risks to themselves AND the recipient, and so on.
Anyway back to Epoman... please don't take the above as me bashing you for being so direct with your brother - I can SO understand the frustration you would have have wondering for so long "why doesn't he offer?" or even "Why doesn't he say anything?" and then his reaction is puzzling... though in a way he was put on the spot and to me, reading your story, when he said "I don't know what to say" says to me anyway something like "I don't feel confident to say no, despite you saying you will love me no matter what, because that imlplies that I'm not a good loving brother if I *do* say no.. but I don't want to say yes because of [insert whatever his reason/s are]"... Again I don't know, but that is a thought.
A difficult situation and I hope you get a positive surprise sometime soon. You never know what might be going through someone's head unless they tell you.
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If I had a resentment for every time my family let me down I'd be in an asylum by now.
I have friends that would walk through fire for me, but my family? Not there, not
gonna be, never was. I somehow accepted it, but it took me a long time. One day a
dear friend said "Why would you go to a dry well for a drink?" and she told me to
fill my self up from the friends who were more committed to me than my family. I
now have a relationship with my mom and siblings, but it's my choice, and if they
behave then we will be fine. But I have no expectations of them anymore. And I
am much healthier than I was when I was wondering why they didn't turn out to be
a loving and supportive family. I know this sounds corny, but friends are the family
we give ourselves. And as far as a kidney donor, there are total strangers that have
shown more interest in Jenna's plight than my own family. That's reality. Thank God
I have friends and people in my life who are loving and generous because they want
to be, no strings attached!
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If I had a resentment for every time my family let me down I'd be in an asylum by now.
I have friends that would walk through fire for me, but my family? Not there, not
gonna be, never was. I somehow accepted it, but it took me a long time. One day a
dear friend said "Why would you go to a dry well for a drink?" and she told me to
fill my self up from the friends who were more committed to me than my family. I
now have a relationship with my mom and siblings, but it's my choice, and if they
behave then we will be fine. But I have no expectations of them anymore. And I
am much healthier than I was when I was wondering why they didn't turn out to be
a loving and supportive family. I know this sounds corny, but friends are the family
we give ourselves. And as far as a kidney donor, there are total strangers that have
shown more interest in Jenna's plight than my own family. That's reality. Thank God
I have friends and people in my life who are loving and generous because they want
to be, no strings attached!
That is so much like my life!!!!!
As Sandman knows, my mom had disowned me for over a year (and my friends would ask "how can a mother do that to her own child especially a sick one??"). When I was in the hospital last year for 6 weeks my mom finally came to visit toward the end. Now she talks to me again but it is just how things are. When I hug my family it is my own attempt for closeness but really it is more of a "supposed to do" with family. There never was a real closeness and I grew up sick with no emotional support WHAT SO EVER and honestly felt that my family resented me and wished I was never born. My brothers felt I paved the way for them in school to be MADE FUN OF because I was not popular but was known as the sick weak quiet kid that had no friends. My dad only calls when he wants something or to show off to one of his many girlfriends and my brothers never call or EVER come visit. I have to take a bus to visit them instead because they can't be bothered. The only family member that COULD donate (the only perfectly healthy one) won't because he is too afraid of ending up like me and is in denial. We have never talked about live donation because I just don't think he could handle it. I can't ask him because even though my other brother has pushed him to do it my mom says no to because he is scared and it wouldn't be fair to bring it up.
I can understand how Epoman feels. But I have learned not to expect a live kidney from anyone.
But I also know what Karol is talking about because I have had friends offer where family WON'T!!
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:bump; >:(
Well, time for an update, and I guess a chance for me to rant a bit. It has now been over 60+ days and I am still waiting for that phone call from my brother. ::) It's amazing how, I feel more love from goofynina than my own brother who I've know his whole life of 23 years. I guess what bothers me the most is the "not knowing why?" factor. Does he literally just not care enough about my feelings? Over 2 months have passed and you guys can't use the "he's scared" excuse for him, since 2 months is plenty of time for it to sink in. Thanksgiving has even come and gone and not one word, to me or his nephew (my son). I guess the true test is coming by the end of this week. If he doesn't call by Christmas than I suppose he won't ever call and will prove to me he is a cold calous asshole, and when that time comes, I will begin the process of emotionally detaching myself from him and consider him dead in my book forever.
- Epoman
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You have a lot of Brothers here.
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Remember, guys, FRIENDS ARE GOD'S WAY OF APOLOGIZING FOR FAMILIES.
I'm sorry your families are coming up so miserably short; it breaks my heart to hear of the pain they're causing you. Physical pain is bad enough, but at least that doesn't feel personal.
I don't have disease-related let-downs from my family, but I can understand how hurt you must be. My parents desperately wanted children, and after multiple miscarriages, adopted a baby boy (in 1945, when the process was worse than today). After they were approved for the adoption, my mom got pregnant with me, and having had numerous miscarriages, she wasn't expecting success with the pregnancy. I was born 2 months premature, but I survived. The result was that all of a sudden, now my folks had 2 very young babies My mother couldn't handle 2 babies at the same time (it turned out she found out she didn't like children!), and they had worked so hard to get my brother, who could still have been taken away from them during the long probationary time that adoption required in those days, so I was raised by my grandparents. We all lived in the same town (that was painful in SO many ways), and the whole extended family celebrated the big holidays together, but all that did was ruin holidays for me. We would celebrate with a big holiday meal and a day of all of us being so happy with each other, one big Norman Rockwell portrait, and then as the day wound down and the holiday came to an end, my brother and parents would leave and go back to their home, leaving me behind. I always thought, in my childish way, that if I was good/pretty/smart/hard-working/talented/kind/etc. enough, they'd take me with them, but they never did.
To make a long story short, my brother wasn't happy either, left home at 18, moved as far away as he could, and didn't come home for about 20 years, and then only for very brief and rare visits. He and I eventually ended up as great friends, because we had in common such a weird childhood, and only we two could understand what the other had been through (my parents weren't good for him, either). He died 6 years ago.
My father remarried when I was 22, and he and my stepmother were excellent grandparents to my daughter, and I got to know him through his relationship with her; I always considered his love and support of her a loving gift to me. In the last few years, my 88-year-old mother and I have made peace with the past - I'm just thankful God kept us alive long enough for that to happen. She lives some distance away from me, and I visit about every 6 weeks (down and back on the same day - it doesn't work otherwise), and I phone her every day. She still drives me nuts sometimes, but I have come to understand things about her life I couldn't have before, and we have a strong friendship. We will never be a normal mother-and-daughter, and I finally learned not to expect that of us, but we are friends, and I am thankful for that.
And I did finally have have a tremendous, loving, deeply satisfying mother-daughter relationship - it's with my own daughter!
Sorry to be so long winded, but your stories touched my heart, and while I usually keep my painful family story private, I couldn't this time!
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Thank you for sharing that with us Nextnoel, sometimes it helps to let it out, i am sure we all have something in our past that hangs over our head, Lord knows i do, and hopefully with time, i will eventually be able to share it as well but its hard to think about. Your story has inspired me though. Thank you and i believe you are an awesome mom and i am so glad you have joined us here at IHD. Keep on Keepin' on my friend... :cuddle;
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Awww, you're sweet! I was feeling a bit guilty about unloading my story, and now with your kind comments, I do feel much better! THANK YOU SO MUCH! :thx;
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Thank you for sharing your story mine is similar in that my childhood was troubled with my Fathers drinking.. but through the years we made amends and actually became best friends until he died in 2001. I too am so thankful of the opportunity to be at peace with eachother before his death. I was blessed in knowing when he was dieing as well so I had the excellent opportunity to say goodbye. enough of that... :'(
Thanks for your story. :)
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Noel thank you for that! Your story was so moving and I am glad you went into detail!
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Sluff and Nextnoel - we are kindred spirits. My story isn't the same but same type of problems. Oldest brother ran away at 18, we "found" him 36 years later and he wanted nothing to do with us--still. Oldest sister moved as far away as she could and speaks to no one. She actually came to Mom's funeral (the brother didn't) but she wouldn't talk to any of us. Weird!! My youngest sister wants nothing to do with me because I have a real disease and she is a hypercondriact (that isn't spelled right!)-- she can have ESRD take it please!!!! But, my youngest brother and I are extremely close. I raised him and we have great love and respect for each other. My mother gave him a oneway ticket to Austrailia when he was 17! Nothing against Austrailia and he loved it there, but what was she thinking? She didn't know how to raise sons. I am fortunate to have wonderful friends. My motto "friends are our chosen family". My children are all very close and do everything together. They have the same interests and enjoy each others company. We learn from our past how we want our future to be. I wanted a close family, so I worked very hard for that to happen. Epoman, you have more people here who love you than most people have in a lifetime. :cuddle;
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Paris, I'm sorry to hear you had a difficult family, but I'm glad you've handled it so well!
Kudos :cuddle;
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Paris, You have us. :grouphug;
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Paris, You have us. :grouphug;
You got that right!! We will always be here for you :cuddle;
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That is why I am trying to be more open and share more of myself. I am usually very private, but as time goes on, I know more and more that this is a safe place to come.
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And the story continues -- youngest sister's husband has some liver problems so she is now telling everyone he needs a liver transplant and she is worried because "who will take care of her?". I figured she would have to come up with something. She really has wanted something worse than ESRD so they can be the sickest. Well, let me tell you, she's sick alright!!! But, she isn't very worried about her husband; just about who will pay the bills and clean the house. I don't deal well with lazy people, especially when I see people here with huge problems and they continue to have a full, rewarding life (ie. Epoman). Let me just say, if I had a healthy kidney, Epoman, you could have it! I admire how dedicated you are, how you handle yourself, your a wonderful father, and even though life through you a big curve, you are enjoying life and LIVING.
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And the story continues -- youngest sister's husband has some liver problems so she is now telling everyone he needs a liver transplant and she is worried because "who will take care of her?". I figured she would have to come up with something. She really has wanted something worse than ESRD so they can be the sickest. Well, let me tell you, she's sick alright!!! But, she isn't very worried about her husband; just about who will pay the bills and clean the house. I don't deal well with lazy people, especially when I see people here with huge problems and they continue to have a full, rewarding life (ie. Epoman). Let me just say, if I had a healthy kidney, Epoman, you could have it! I admire how dedicated you are, how you handle yourself, your a wonderful father, and even though life through you a big curve, you are enjoying life and LIVING.
Thank you for the kind words, I do try to fight, but honestly sometimes I just get very depressed. But I continue to fight not so much for myself but for my family. :thumbup;
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One of the big things that make me so proud of Epoman and this site is the fact that this disease has not shut you( Epoman) down, and that despite the problems that you were handed you found away to help others. Most people given the amount of adversity that you have had, would have given up or just been angry at life.
It takes one hell of a person to continue forward motion with the intensity that you have shown.
Epowife and Epokid are very blessed to have you in their life, and I'm sure through everything it hasn't been easy.
Thanks to Epowife and Epokid for sharing your Husband and Dad with us.
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One of the big things that make me so proud of Epoman and this site is the fact that this disease has not shut you( Epoman) down, and that despite the problems that you were handed you found away to help others. Most people given the amount of adversity that you have had, would have given up or just been angry at life.
It takes one hell of a person to continue forward motion with the intensity that you have shown.
Epowife and Epokid are very blessed to have you in their life, and I'm sure through everything it hasn't been easy.
Thanks to Epowife and Epokid for sharing your Husband and Dad with us.
Amen.. ;D
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One of the big things that make me so proud of Epoman and this site is the fact that this disease has not shut you( Epoman) down, and that despite the problems that you were handed you found away to help others. Most people given the amount of adversity that you have had, would have given up or just been angry at life.
It takes one hell of a person to continue forward motion with the intensity that you have shown.
Epowife and Epokid are very blessed to have you in their life, and I'm sure through everything it hasn't been easy.
Thanks to Epowife and Epokid for sharing your Husband and Dad with us.
That is so true. With his story I have realized that I have nothing to complain about. He has turned adversity into something even larger than himself to help the whole renal community. He doesn't sit there and feel sorry for himself that he is in a wheelchair and that he has to stick needles into his arm most of the week. He takes each challenge at every step and because of his attitude he is a taller man than most of the people in the world.
Sorry .. I am not sucking up. I just have been learning a lot from the people of this site and wanted to give my thanks. Even though your brother isn't giving you a kidney Epoman, you talk about it here and help others who's family turns away from that question. Thanks for sharing your life and experiences without making it all about yourself. :thx;
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It's amazing how the people who you think would come through and be there for you when they are needed, hide in the tree's but you can take a perfect stranger, and he would give his shirt off his back for you.
Food for thought.
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I'm coming to this thread late but all the posts echo so much of what I've been trying to deal with emotionally in regards to my family. I have 3 sisters and a brother. In 1992, when I had been on dialysis for 3 yrs, I got on the transplant list and wrote my family a letter detailing all the stats, etc available then about the benefits of LRD and would any of them consider just finding out more about being a donor. I didn't even ask for a commitment, just would they like to have some more info. Out of 4 siblings, only 1 sister responded with a phone call to me and an explanation of why she felt that she couldn't be a donor as her husband had been diagnosed with PKD and may someday need a kidney form her or possibly one of her sons (her husband started dialysis last yr). Anyway, I was devastated that no one else ever responded. My brother's wife was a KIDNEY TRANSPLANT COORDINATOR in Texas at the time! No response. While I am still close to my family in every other way and they have been very supportive & helpful with my daughter when we moved back to Texas and she was so young (now 22) a part of me carries that hurt and it is still so raw that even writing this it makes me cry. I understand the fear that donors have, but a non-response is so hurtful and there's just no excuse for it.
Now that I am back on the list, my brother-in-law (the one now on dialysis, also on the list, too) is encourgaing me to write another letter. I don't know if I can do it. I have a good relationship with everyone and even when you think that if they say no, it won't change the way I feel, I'm afraid it would for me. Yes I would still love them, but what if no one responded again. What if that hurt is made so new to me again. They all KNOW I'm on the list. They've all heard me talk about the statistics when they ask me "how long do you think you'll wait?" and I always reply that since I'm O+, my wait will be the longest when what I REALLY want to say is "I might not have to wait at ALL if you'd get your head out of your ass & quit pretending like you don't know there's any other way for me to have a kidney!"
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You have a lot of Brothers here.
Thanks sluff, I believe you. :thumbup;
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:bump; >:(
Well, time for an update, and I guess a chance for me to rant a bit. It has now been over 60+ days and I am still waiting for that phone call from my brother. ::) It's amazing how, I feel more love from goofynina than my own brother who I've know his whole life of 23 years. I guess what bothers me the most is the "not knowing why?" factor. Does he literally just not care enough about my feelings? Over 2 months have passed and you guys can't use the "he's scared" excuse for him, since 2 months is plenty of time for it to sink in. Thanksgiving has even come and gone and not one word, to me or his nephew (my son). I guess the true test is coming by the end of this week. If he doesn't call by Christmas than I suppose he won't ever call and will prove to me he is a cold callous asshole, and when that time comes, I will begin the process of emotionally detaching myself from him and consider him dead in my book forever.
- Epoman
Well Christmas came and passed and so did the new year, so I guess I will do what I said and start detaching myself from him emotionally. I thought there might have been a ray of hope however when my dad called and said that my brother had called him to come pick up a present for Nick (my son). So my brother bought my son a Christmas present but didn't call or get me and my wife anything. I had a present for him just in case he came by or called but, nope. So I will just start to close this chapter in my life, I guess the most hurtful part is the "not knowing why" had I known this would have happened I would have never asked in the first place or maybe I would have thinking that there's no way he would react that way. Oh well, I won't be updating this thread anymore unless someone asks in the future if he ever contacted me eventually, or if he finally does grow a pair of balls and becomes man enough to confront me, then I will update and let everyone know the outcome.
For those that are wondering, YES of course I let my son have the gift, it was a nice "Radio Controlled Truck" my son loved it and I am hesitant to do as my wife asked and have my son send a thank you note, I already told him he couldn't call and say thanks. Because I don't want my brother thinking I am using my son to get him to talk to me. I know, I know, what kind of example is that for my son, well I give him plenty of other "good" examples to over power this bad example I am setting this time. And please don't tell me that my brother was using the present for my son as an excuse to get our relationship back in order, my brother is not that creative, plus why would he have my dad come pick it up instead of calling my son on his cell phone (yes, he has his own cell phone) or drop it off himself to my son.
On a side note I just wanted to add, that I was amazed when my dad told me my brother got my dad a very expensive bottle of men's cologne and another gift for Christmas, since my dad really didn't give a crap about my brother even when my brother was homeless, not even giving him a place to live while he got on his feet. I however took my brother in and gave him a place to stay for awhile as got his life in order.
- Epoman
Brotherless
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Sluff's reply and the replies that followed has been split into a separate thread, since it went off-topic. Here is a link:
Here is the new subject of that new thread: "My sister drove 200 miles round trip to leave Christmas presents on my front porch."
http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=2210.0
Also it was moved to Off-Topic.
- Epoman
Owner/Admin
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I'm sorry Epoman.
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I'm sorry Epoman.
It's ok, I lost a Brother, but I gained a Sister, "goofynina" has shown me more love than my brother has in the last decade. :o
- Epoman
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Epoman, so, you say your brotherless huh? Well, good news, at least your not sisterless, nope, you got one big bad ass sister who can kick your ass in dominoes anyday of the week and twice on Sunday... And you know this, maaaaan ;) ;) :popcorn;
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Epoman, your brother sucks and doesn't deserve the term 'brother'.
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Here is the Jedi again...sorry...I believe he is still your brother and he will appear as soon as he matures...give him time. I know you don't agree, but time will deliver you good news...you deserve them... :grouphug;
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Epo - You may want to follow this thread on Living Donors Online - it's about family members being asked
to donate -- http://www.livingdonorsonline.org/dcforum/DCForumID7/3914.html titled "Family Rift"
~Karol
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Epo - You may want to follow this thread on Living Donors Online - it's about family members being asked
to donate -- http://www.livingdonorsonline.org/dcforum/DCForumID7/3914.html titled "Family Rift"
~Karol
It doesn't matter anymore, as I no longer have a brother. But thanks for the link.
- Epoman
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still learning how to quote . see below
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[
It doesn't matter anymore, as I no longer have a brother. But thanks for the link.
- Epoman
I no longer have a sister. Maybe they should form a club.
Kelli
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I know I said I will emotionally detach myself from my brother, but I am posting here again because a few of you are kind enough and concerned enough to want to know an update and the situation, thank you for your kind PM's. And then I came across this on another thread:
Here is the link: http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=2564.msg37573#msg37573
My sister's still a little worse for wear, but what she said to the surgeon right during testing, when he was cautioning her about pain and side effects, was this: My sister's had too many "bad days" for me to remember; I can spare a few of my own to help her live like everyone else again.
It made me sad to read that, about how much one sister loves another. And it just got me thinking and wondering his thoughts at this moment, if he even thinks of me at all. It has been over 4 months now that he has not said one word to me. So that's the update for those who were wondering.
- Epoman
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Epoman this seems to bother you a lot (as it should) have you ever thought of going to see him and confront him about everything? i would. What do you have to lose?
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Epoman this seems to bother you a lot (as it should) have you ever thought of going to see him and confront him about everything? i would. What do you have to lose?
I think he is waiting for his brother to apologize for lying and saying he would call back and then ignoring him for holidays and everything ever since.
Maybe he needs to watch this vid (http://www.aish.com/movies/sorry.asp).
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Epoman this seems to bother you a lot (as it should) have you ever thought of going to see him and confront him about everything? i would. What do you have to lose?
Pride, dignity, you know the usual. What happens if I go to him and he walks away? Or he refuses to talk to me like last time. Then I get hurt all over again? :(
Believe me I understand what you are saying, but I was the one who always did that in the past and I just can't do it anymore. :(
- Epoman
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Epoman this seems to bother you a lot (as it should) have you ever thought of going to see him and confront him about everything? i would. What do you have to lose?
Pride, dignity, you know the usual. What happens if I go to him and he walks away? Or he refuses to talk to me like last time. Then I get hurt all over again? :(
Believe me I understand what you are saying, but I was the one who always did that in the past and I just can't do it anymore. :(
- Epoman
We need to write a letter. Tell him exactly how you feel, then the ball is in his corner but don't compromise yourself one bit. Just my :twocents;
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A letter will not work with your brother, he hasn't bothered to contact you by doing something as easy as picking up the phone....... i doubt he will read the letter.. If i was you and it bothered me that much i would go confront him one more time and tell him exactly what you feel...... even if you get hurt at the end i believe it will be worth it....to finally speak to him face to face and tell him how he has made you feel.... and then if he still rejects you and your family, your bother isn't worth anymore time or effort, let alone a topic thread on this forum about him.
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or you could just let it lay for now-maybe there are still things to think of. No pressure.
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I wonder what the brother and mother are feeling right now.....
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I wonder what the brother and mother are feeling right now.....
My feelings exactly. They have to live with this, the rest of their lives.
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I wonder what the brother and mother are feeling right now.....
the same thing went through my thoughts also, bajanne.........
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I was wondering that too, Baj.
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or you could just let it lay for now-maybe there are still things to think of. No pressure.
hindsight-maybe this taught me something about avoiding conflict in my own family.
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I have beeen thinking a lot about this also.
It is sad.
Here is a poem that is sooooooooooo true.
IF I KNEW
If I knew it would be the last ime
that I saw you walk out the door,
I would give you a hug and kiss
and call you back for more.
If I knew it would be the last time
I'd hear your voice lifted up in praise,
I would video tape each action and word,
So I could reply it day by day.
If I knew it would be the last time
I would spare an extra minute or two,
To stop and say "I love you"
Instead of assuming that you know that I do.
For surely there is a tomorrow,
To make up for an oversight,
And we always get a second chance
To make everything right.
There will always be another day
To say our "I love you's"
And certainly another chance
To say "anything I can do's?"
But just in case I might be wrong
and today is all I get
I'd like to say how much "I love you"
and hope you never forget.
Tomorrow is not promised to anyone
young and old alike,
And today may be the last chance you get,
To hold your loved ones tight.
So hold your loved ones close today,
whisper in their ear,
Tll them how much you love them
And that you'll always hold them dear.
Take the time to say "I'm sorry"
Please forgive me "thank you" or "It's ok"
And dif tomorrow never comes
You'll have no regrets about today.
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There is a lot of truth in that poem. Thanks for sharing it with us.
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For those of you who haven't seen this before - it's 3 pages but it's an amazing thread. :bump;