RANT TIME: I always knew the "answer" but I just never asked, WELL I DID AND..

[Epoman]

WARNING USE OF VULGAR LANGUAGE

Here is a little INFO before the MAIN story:

My brother and I are 10 years apart, he is married and I am married so we have that in common and we both like playing video games online against each other. When he was younger I was already married but I included him in things like going to amusement parks, movies, just hanging out. We have had our problems but they were me just being a big brother, for example I fought hard to get him away from this one girl who was using him hardcore and treating him literally like shit. Well I finally succeeded and he is in now love with the woman of his dreams who treats him great and he is happily married. My mother is a crazy woman, literally who....well just to give you an idea of the mentality of my mother, she thinks that my son is not her grandchild because I am not her daughter, yes you read that right read it again slowly. My mother has not worked in 15 years and lives...actually I have no idea where she lives, my brother and I only hear from her when she needs to "borrow" money. My dad and her are divorced. So to get back to my brother and I we don't have the closes relationship but we do have a relationship, we talk on the phone a lot and we go out once in a while.

Here is the story/rant:

I always knew the "answer" but I just never asked, WELL I DID and.. It's p*cked up! So as you know I have been on dialysis for 13 years straight and I have had MANY complications throughout the years, and I started dialysis when my brother was about 11 so obviously I could not get a transplant from him and so I figured he would volunteer when he was 18, I mean I assumed, well he turned 18 then 19 and nothing so I just let it go and I dropped hints throughout the years. I figured I would wait and eventually my "loving brother" would offer a kidney since he is 6' 7" 300 pounds and in PERFECT health, and has only been in the hospital one time in his life. So I would just continue to drop hints even though every time I would, he would get very serious and have a look on his face like someone shit in his "Cheerios". So again I let it go. Well now he is 23 years old and has been married for over a year and I figure what the hell he is married now and he has grown up and lived his youth, I am sure if I give him a call (don't start asking why did you call him for something so important? That's how we communicate, over the phone) and ask him and he may just do it. So I start out by asking him why he gets all serious when I start talking about my dialysis or transplants, I even joked around saying I may go to the Philippines to buy a kidney, the phone just stayed quiet. I asked him are you there and said in a voice like someone was twisting his sack, "yeah" I asked him well Josh will you give me a kidney? Again silence, I asked him what's wrong? Talk to me what's the problem are you scared? Again silence not one word out of his mouth. I said please Josh talk to me, you know all the problems I have been going through and have seen me in the hospital dozens of times, I said don't you love or care about me, I told him you know I want to live long enough to see my son grow up. AGAIN silence not one single word, not even a "sigh" I couldn't even hear him breathing. I told him JOSH please talk to me give some respect tell me something, FINALLY I get a response "I don't know what you want me to say" So after thinking to myself OK my brother is a retard, I told him I want you to say yes or no it's very simple, yes I will give you a kidney or no I don't want to. I told him Josh, I will still love you even if you say no and I won't hold it against you just tell me yes or no. AGAIN silence not one mother-freaking word came out of his mouth. So I said JOSH come on be a man and have the balls and give me enough respect to tell me YES or NO. I proceeded to explain the procedure to him like I have many times before in the past but never actually asking him for the kidney. I told him all the usual facts and risks and I went on and on. So finally after me talking for about 5 minutes, I asked him so what do you think? AGAIN SILENCE, not one word came from his mouth. I was now getting mad as all hell but I remained calm. I asked him Josh, PLEASE do I have to beg you just at least say NO then, guess what he told me? "I don't know what you want me to say" OK now I was really p*cking pissed because now either my brother is really a retard or he just does not give a shit about me and has no idea of all the shit I have gone through since he has not even been "really" chronically sick, the one time he was in the hospital it was because he had an abscess in his tooth and I even went to visit him and keep him company. So I said to him what the hell do you mean, I want you to be man enough to tell me NO if that's the answer or even tell me a "maybe" because you are unsure. I said do you have to ask mom? or Margie? (Margie is his wife) again silence but he did say yeah ask mom. OK now I know for years my mother of the year has told him to NEVER give me a kidney because I got what I deserve! She says I got what I deserved because I moved out of her house as soon as I was 18 and she was pissed, she could not let me go emotionally. So for years she drilled my brothers head not to give me a kidney. So I told him "ASK MOM" are kidding me? I told him "you are a 23 year old full grown married man, can't you make a decision on you own?" Again silence. Then I stayed silent then he said to me I got to go now. I told him p*ck JOSH at least tell me yes, no, maybe, p*ck off and die, anything just tell me something. I told him Jesus JOSH I would give you a kidney in a heartbeat, you're my brother and I love and care about you and wouldn't want you to suffer, I asked him don't you love me? I heard him say "yeah" but he said it like someone was holding an ice pick to his ear and making him say it. I then said OK so please have the decency to tell me yes or no, I told him right now Josh you have my heart pounding because I am so upset. I told him Josh If you don't want to give me a kidney I understand and I will still love you and we can forget about it, but damn it at least tell me something, talk to me we are brothers. He tells me I have to go, I'll call you later, then CLICK.........The phone went dead.  I sat there shocked, I waited a few hours and called him back and he phone just went to his voice mail. I called several times and even left voice mails and no answer. So far two days have passed and nothing, he has not called back.

I guess I always knew the answer, but I never wanted to find out. And please don't reply and make this a "oh so you now want a transplant now thread" this thread is about my brother acting the way he did. I was just exploring my options concerning the transplant.

- Epoman

[geoffcamp]

That really sucks epoman!  Sounds like your mom may have filled his head with shit for so long that he may just not know what to do or say.  Still that is no excuse for not just laying it on the line and saying well mom said or I think....  Maybe he just needs some time to think about it too who knows.  You should not get too upset about it.  You made an effort and you should feel good about that.  Now you have it out there and maybe after some consideration and thought he will at least talk with you about it.  I can imagine it is extremely difficult to put yourself out there like that and the way he reacted is very hard to deal with but you have enough to handle on a day to day basis without worrying about his reaction.  You tried and that is all you can do now it is up to him I guess.  I truly hope he takes some time and carefully considers his options and talks to you about how he feels.  Good luck.
Geoff

[mallory]

Epoman, I am so sorry, that's awful.  I have a brother and a sister.  My sister would gladly give me a kidney but she can't because she's diabetic.  My brother, on the other hand, has just avoided the subject.  I've considered a few times if I should ask him if he would give me a kidney, but I haven't been able to  get up enough courage to ask him yet.

If you're like me, it probably took so much for you to get to the point you could ask him, and then to get that reaction from him is just terrible.  I agree with Geoff, hopefully he'll take some time to think it over and he'll at least talk to you about it.  It would probably help if he'd at least have a conversation with you about it, not just dismiss you!

[angieskidney]

I know how hard it can be when you feel that your family should offer to you if they truely care about you. But you also have to put yoruself in his shoes. How many years has your mom drilled his head with not donating to you? How important is your mom's acceptance to your brother? Would your mother disown him if he went against her wishes? Maybe your brother has a lot of fear (doesn't want to end up like you .. like my brothers fear is) and feels pressured by your years of hints thrown toward him that he seemed not to catch but obviously is very aware of.

I feel for you but you probably got more hurt because you have been carrying this on your shoulders for awhile yourself. But you needed to ask. You don't know unless you ask. When he comes back to talk you might want to say you had in on your mind for years but didn't want to push. Maybe by then he will be ready to talk. Maybe he is just worried your mom will disown him? I know for awhile my mom did so it is not beyond me for a mother to do that.

Don't give up hope.

I just hope your brother talks to you again soon. He probably just needs time for now. Let him maul it over in his head and call you back in his own time.

[paris]

   I am sorry your brother isn't as strong as you are emotionally. Sometimes our friends are our chosen family.

[coravh]

I am so sorry about what you went through with your brother. You must feel physically exhausted and emotionally bankrupt.

I think that those of us who have health problems don't realize how strong it has made us. Compared to those of us who manage to deal and still live our lives, most other people just don't have the strength. We forget what a scary issue all this can be.

All I can say is that I hope your brother finds the emotional fortitude to at least say that he's sorry for not giving you an answer.

Take care.

Cora

[kitkatz]

Pardon the reaction, but what a dickhead your brother is!!!
I am going to take my big stick and beat him over the head with it! Okay?

[Sara]

That really sucks.  I'm hoping he's just scared and doesn't know how to verbalize that very well.  Wait and see.  Maybe he'll surprise you yet.

[vandie]

I am so sorry you had to go through that.  Unfortunately some people are emotional infants, and haven't a clue how to behave.  It's one thing for your brother to be hesitant to donate.  It is an entirely different story for him to treat you so shabbily.  I am sure he will come to his senses and call you back with an explanation.
We are all here for you and support you.

[goofynina]

Give him a little time to think about it, maybe now that you have brought it up, he is thinking on it,  dont give up Epoman,  your time will come my friend...

[Black]

I've read this several times and I really don't know what to say except that I'm sorry that happened to you, and your brother probably wishes he were as strong, and brave, and productive as you.

[Rerun]

I have two sisters and a brother and none of them have offered.  That is why I just say I don't want a living donor because I can't take the rejection.  I think it would change my relationship with them if they said "no."  I would be hurt. 

Have one of these.     (actual size)

[Epoman]

Thank you all for your comments, a few days have passed now and he still has not called. Oh well I wish he was just man enough to tell me p*ck off to my face.

I have already given orders to my wife and my dad to NOT let him be a pallbearer at my funeral when I die.

Discuss?

[Bajanne]

Your feelings are totally understandable.  To me, the hurtful part is the silence.  Anyway, you just continue to handle it, and let him go his way.  In the end, he will be the hurting one.

[Rerun]

Our funeral is our last say.  You do what you want.  I often think about what I want.  When I hear a good song...etc

[Sara]

Discuss?

Your funeral, you do what you want, although all this will probably be behind you by then.  I did want to point out that by you asking him "don't you love me?" it may have put him on the defensive, not that it excuses his behavior whatsoever.   

[Joe Paul]

When I die, I want to be in the coffin with my ass straight up in the air. That way, everyone can come by and kiss it 1 last time, family first of course.
My family doesn't even know I'm sick Epoman, and they never will find out from me. I  know what any of my brothers or sisters would say if I asked for any kind of help, specially a kidney. I'm sad for you that your brother wont even respond to your request. To hell with him, if you want a kidney, get it from a stranger, because it sounds to me, if he would give up a kidney for you, you'd be under his thumb the rest of your life. 

[BigSky]

I wouldnt really put too much into him not saying anything at the moment.

Give it some time.  Such decisions should not be may hastly and spur of the moment. Live organ donation can be very scary to some people.  Makes people confront their own possible death when they are not ready for it.

He seems to have some reservations about such a procedure because in the back of his mind it is a major thing to give up a organ.  Many things are most likely running through his head that he may die, or what if his kidney failed after donation, etc etc.

IMO the reason he may not have said anything was because it is a big decision to made right then and there and that even though he loves you he may not want to say no because if he does it will in some way in  his mind say that he doesnt love you and that he feels it may hurt your feelings in some way and he wants to avoid that happening.  He is probably very conflicted over the matter of fearing for his own health and wanting to help you.

[Epoman]

I wouldnt really put too much into him not saying anything at the moment.

Give it some time.  Such decisions should not be may hastly and spur of the moment. Live organ donation can be very scary to some people.  Makes people confront their own possible death when they are not ready for it.

He seems to have some reservations about such a procedure because in the back of his mind it is a major thing to give up a organ.  Many things are most likely running through his head that he may die, or what if his kidney failed after donation, etc etc.

IMO the reason he may not have said anything was because it is a big decision to made right then and there and that even though he loves you he may not want to say no because if he does it will in some way in  his mind say that he doesnt love you and that he feels it may hurt your feelings in some way and he wants to avoid that happening.  He is probably very conflicted over the matter of fearing for his own health and wanting to help you.

Right then and there? He has seen me suffer with Kidney Disease and dialysis for the last 13 years straight. He has had plenty of time to think about it, if the roles were reversed I would have offered years ago. I understand what you are saying but he totally disrespected me by not even responding and telling me he would call me back at 8:30pm, well that was 4 days ago.

I have done so much for him in his life and I have helped him financially and mentally, I have been there whenever he has needed me. And he treats me this way? He can take his kidneys and shove them up his ass, I wouldn't take his kidney now. It's about respect, I'd rather die with dignity, fighting the good fight then BEG my brother for a kidney. I bet he would give his WIFE a kidney? Of course she wouldn't HAVE to ask, he would volunteer.

[Rerun]

That brings up a good point.  He is married now and she has a big say.  A woman thinks of her family or potential family first.  The hell with his family.  My sister-in-law told my brother she would divorce him if he gave me a kidney.  After all one of her kids may need one someday.  They had one at the time.  Then two others came along.  THEN she divorced him. 

Maybe they had discussed it and she said "no" and he didn't want you to think he was a pussy by her making the decision.  Don't know, but that is what happened to me.

Although, now my brother could make his own decision and has not offered.  YEA, best to go with a dead stranger.

[Epoman]

That brings up a good point.  He is married now and she has a big say.  A woman thinks of her family or potential family first.  The hell with his family.  My sister-in-law told my brother she would divorce him if he gave me a kidney.  After all one of her kids may need one someday.  They had one at the time.  Then two others came along.  THEN she divorced him. 

Maybe they had discussed it and she said "no" and he didn't want you to think he was a pussy by her making the decision.  Don't know, but that is what happened to me.

Although, now my brother could make his own decision and has not offered.  YEA, best to go with a dead stranger.

Yes all that is true and a possibility, however they have only been married for about a year and they only knew each other a short while. So what about all the other years before she came along? But I can definitely understand about wanting to save his kidney for his future child, but my brother is not that "deep" or responsible, his life revolves around buying the newest XBOX game that comes out. My brother is 24 but he has the mind of a 14 year old, I love him but it's true. I guess that is why I made my subject for this post, "I always knew the "answer" but I just never asked, WELL I DID AND.." 

[okarol]

I can't predict what the outcome will be, but I can tell ya that I think your
brother is a wimp and a mama's boy and probably wife-whipped too. He
never offered and I bet he was praying that phone call would never come.
Hey, that's his choice, it's ok to say no. But to treat you like you're asking
for money to support your gambling habit, or a ride to the crack dealer,
not even having the compassion to see how you were feeling, having to
ask him for help. UGH.

Sorry Epoman. Families suck. Both my sister's and my brother have PKD
and are probably going to need transplants. I have always figured I would
donate to one of them. My fear is that they'll all need it at once and I would
have to choose! Nightmare!

[Epoman]

I can't predict what the outcome will be, but I can tell ya that I think your
brother is a wimp and a mama's boy and probably wife-whipped too. He
never offered and I bet he was praying that phone call would never come.
Hey, that's his choice, it's ok to say no. But to treat you like you're asking
for money to support your gambling habit, or a ride to the crack dealer,
not even having the compassion to see how you were feeling, having to
ask him for help. UGH.

Sorry Epoman. Families suck. Both my sister's and my brother have PKD
and are probably going to need transplants. I have always figured I would
donate to one of them. My fear is that they'll all need it at once and I would
have to choose! Nightmare!

I knew I would like you.  And you are correct he is wife-wipped to the extreme. He married his second girlfriend, the first girlfriend treated him like shit, and so when this woman came along and treated him nice AND took his virginity, he was in love. When ever we had gone out the 4 of us, me and my wife and him and his wife, he always had the look on his face like he was worried I would say thing that would offend her, but I didn't care I was just being myself and if she didn't like it too bad. Don't get me wrong she is a good woman and treats him nice, but it's so obvious to everyone on our side of the family that he walks on eggshells. Like I said, she gave him two things he never experienced before "a love of a women" and "sex" so yeah, he is whipped big time. I love my brother and I have told him to his face he is whipped, but I have supported him in all the decisions he has made in his life so that should count for something. BTW this is day number 5 and I am still waiting for his phone call, remember I said earlier he told me he would call back at 8:30pm  I will NOT call him first, and if that is how he wants to end our relationship then so be it. I did no wrong, so I can rest easy knowing that all I did was ask my brother for a kidney 13 years after I started dialysis, and he decided to never talk to me again so I'll let GOD judge us.

[livecam]

EPO there are some things I don't understand here.  Many times you've stated that you weren't interested in a transplant.  You said that you didn't want to deal with the uncertainty of the kidney failing at some point or having to start and then stop a career depending on the status of the graft. Now you are saying that you want a transplant which is good but that you are mad because your brother is uncomfortable with being asked to donate.  I think also you are stating clearly that you feel he "owes" you a kidney because you've been a good brother over the years etc.  Nobody owes anyone a kidney no matter how the recipient wants to rationalize it.  One of my prospective donors sounded like a slam dunk but then went away and stopped talking to me without a word.  Now this is a woman I see at work every day and if I said her name you would recognize it immediately because she is that well known in Los Angeles.  Years later I asked her about that and she said matter of factly that "we weren't a match" which is what transplant centers instruct potential donors who have changed their minds to say to the prospective recipient.  In this case the woman in question had already inquired about taking time off from work for the donation and had already been worked up by UCLA so draw your own conclusions like I did.

This is a delicate subject and it is charged with emotion.  I'm happy that you want a transplant and I hope you get it and can put that Nxstage in the dumpster where it belongs.  In the meantime why not get on the cadaveric list?  You will eventually get a kidney that way and who is to say that it won't work great for many years?  While you are on the list who is to say that another living donor might not come along? 

A kidney is not something you can really ask for.  If your friends and family know that you are in need it is best to let people who are interested come forward on their own.  I think that putting pressure on someone is completely wrong.  I also know how damn frustrating dialysis and the uncertainty of when and how a transplant might happen can be.  I've lived both of those situations but for only a small fraction of the time you've had to deal with your problem. 

Don't feel bad about how your brother handled the situation.  He has probably thought more about it than you will ever know and he is obviously not comfortable with the idea.  It is his body and his right to do what he feels is right for him.

Don't be discouraged but do what you can do right now and that is to get yourself on the cadaveric list and keep yourself healthy.  It could take some years for that call to come but it could also come the day after you list.   

[Epoman]

EPO there are some things I don't understand here.  Many times you've stated that you weren't interested in a transplant.  You said that you didn't want to deal with the uncertainty of the kidney failing at some point or having to start and then stop a career depending on the status of the graft. Now you are saying that you want a transplant which is good but that you are mad because your brother is uncomfortable with being asked to donate.  I think also you are stating clearly that you feel he "owes" you a kidney because you've been a good brother over the years etc.  Nobody owes anyone a kidney no matter how the recipient wants to rationalize it.  One of my prospective donors sounded like a slam dunk but then went away and stopped talking to me without a word.  Now this is a woman I see at work every day and if I said her name you would recognize it immediately because she is that well known in Los Angeles.  Years later I asked her about that and she said matter of factly that "we weren't a match" which is what transplant centers instruct potential donors who have changed their minds to say to the prospective recipient.  In this case the woman in question had already inquired about taking time off from work for the donation and had already been worked up by UCLA so draw your own conclusions like I did.

This is a delicate subject and it is charged with emotion.  I'm happy that you want a transplant and I hope you get it and can put that Nxstage in the dumpster where it belongs.  In the meantime why not get on the cadaveric list?  You will eventually get a kidney that way and who is to say that it won't work great for many years?  While you are on the list who is to say that another living donor might not come along? 

A kidney is not something you can really ask for.  If your friends and family know that you are in need it is best to let people who are interested come forward on their own.  I think that putting pressure on someone is completely wrong.  I also know how damn frustrating dialysis and the uncertainty of when and how a transplant might happen can be.  I've lived both of those situations but for only a small fraction of the time you've had to deal with your problem. 

Don't feel bad about how your brother handled the situation.  He has probably thought more about it than you will ever know and he is obviously not comfortable with the idea.  It is his body and his right to do what he feels is right for him.

Don't be discouraged but do what you can do right now and that is to get yourself on the cadaveric list and keep yourself healthy.  It could take some years for that call to come but it could also come the day after you list.   

Am I not allowed to change my mind or explore my options? But you are right many times I have stated I did not want a transplant, but I was exploring my options of possible donors in my family which is VERY small and the only viable option for a living-related kidney would be from my brother. I really resent your statement: I think also you are stating clearly that you feel he "owes" you a kidney because you've been a good brother over the years etc. I never said that nor did I imply that, I was simply using that to show that we do indeed have (had) a good relationship and that I have always been there for him, when he needed me. I understand that nobody in this world owes anybody anything. I am not upset that he said NO, I am upset about the fact that he didn't say "yes" or "no" but rather disrespect me by not talking and finally telling me he would call me back at 8:30pm and then hung up on me, well that was 5 days ago.

If my brother would at least talk to me about it and tell me he doesn't feel comfortable I would understand and I would respect his decision, but I have no respect for him right now, if he doesn't even have the "balls" to tell me no to my face, so he can spare HIS feelings, can you understand that? He does at least OWE me that, doesn't he? He may not owe me a kidney but he owes me a response. finally, I don't think asking for a kidney 1 time in 13 years, should be characterized as "putting pressure"

I may get on the list and I may not, as I said I was just exploring my options.