RANT TIME: I always knew the "answer" but I just never asked, WELL I DID AND..

[angieskidney]

I am sorry Epoman but I kinda agree with Livecam. Please don't take it wrong but you might have come across as feeling that he owed it to you even though I know you said clearly that he was free to say no. I get the impression (I might be 100% wrong as I don't know you or your brother) that he might have felt you wanted him to offer you a kidney for 13 years. You might never have asked all this time but maybe he felt pressure where there was none. I mean I found out that my brother feels pressured when I have never asked him even ONCE! It turns out my other brother who can't donate but would if he could has been pressuring my brother! So you never know ... you won't know until he talks. But as for who should come forward first .. you are both very stubborn. He is probably feeling like you should come forward because you were the one who came to him and asked. As you feel he should come forward as he was the one who said he would talk to you at a certain time.  It is not a time to say who was in the wrong or right. It is just all emotions here but NO ONE is in the wrong. You won't know what is in his stubborn head until he opens up. But it seems that maybe he is intimidated by you? I can understand that.

Please don't get mad at what I say as I might be wrong. I am only going by what little information about this I have. Give it time. It will get better. And my last transplant was a cadaver. It lasted 11 years and that was without me being compliant with the medication!

I really hope it is okay that I shared here.

[Epoman]

I am sorry Epoman but I kinda agree with Livecam. Please don't take it wrong but you might have come across as feeling that he owed it to you even though I know you said clearly that he was free to say no. I get the impression (I might be 100% wrong as I don't know you or your brother) that he might have felt you wanted him to offer you a kidney for 13 years. You might never have asked all this time but maybe he felt pressure where there was none. I mean I found out that my brother feels pressured when I have never asked him even ONCE! It turns out my other brother who can't donate but would if he could has been pressuring my brother! So you never know ... you won't know until he talks. But as for who should come forward first .. you are both very stubborn. He is probably feeling like you should come forward because you were the one who came to him and asked. As you feel he should come forward as he was the one who said he would talk to you at a certain time.  It is not a time to say who was in the wrong or right. It is just all emotions here but NO ONE is in the wrong. You won't know what is in his stubborn head until he opens up. But it seems that maybe he is intimidated by you? I can understand that.

Please don't get mad at what I say as I might be wrong. I am only going by what little information about this I have. Give it time. It will get better. And my last transplant was a cadaver. It lasted 11 years and that was without me being compliant with the medication!

I really hope it is okay that I shared here.

You agree with livecam and I disagree with you. You say no one was is in the wrong, but I believe my brother was because he is the one who would not even speak to me for simply asking, he is the one that lied and said he would call me back. As I mentioned before I don't believe anyone owes me anything I have fought this disease for 13 years without his help and I can fight it for another 13 without him. I was simply stating If the roles were reversed I would donate to him in a heartbeat, to me family is the most important thing in the world.

If my brother had told me no, yes I would have been hurt and upset but at least I would have respected him for being a man and stating his feelings and I would have dropped the matter and moved on. But by him not calling and ignoring my feelings and not giving me a shred of respect, he is in the wrong.

If you think I am being stubborn by not picking up the phone and begging him to talk to me again then so be it. So you are saying I should call him first and beg? Did you read my first post where I kept asking him to "please say something, talk to me at least?"

Bottom line is if my brother doesn't call me and explain himself to me, he is an insensitive asshole and dead in my book, does that make me sad to say that? Yes of course, but hey life goes on and I have faced many other gut wrenching times in my life, like when the doctor told me I will never walk again.

[Panda_9]

Just looking at your description of the phone conversation, well if that was me on the other end I would of felt pressured. I do agree that not saying anything, and hanging up, wasnt a nice thing to do. I know how frustrating it is when you want to talk to someone but they just dont respond, and you start thinking all these reasons why they havent responded. They are probably thinking the total opposite to what you are thinking. He is still young, you could probably even say he is still a kid in a way. At 24 I would think giving someone a kidney would be a huge decision, and it would definitely have to involve my husband, kids etc. I would say if your mother has been drumming it into him not to give him a kidney since he was a young child, then I dare say that could be a reason why he is acting this way. When you are told something repeatedly from a young age, it just sticks. It doesnt matter what you do, it sticks.
I do hope he comes and talks to you, and in the mean time work on getting on the list. I waited 9 months and got 7 good years, so there is hope.

[geoffcamp]

I don't think epoman was implying that his brother "owed" him a kidney, just a discussion on the possibility of donating.  That is the main issue here in my opinion.  After 13 long years and all the thoughts and emotions epoman has had about transplantation he was looking for some "love" from his brother to get a feel on him and his thoughts on him donating and getting a transplant period.. a family discussion with someone close to you.  I think that is all epoman was asking for.  It is a shame that we and maybe his brother think that way automatically, epoman was simply looking for someone to discuss the situation ask for open thoughts on if this was a possibility.  Hang in there epoman sounds like you have a wonderful family (wife and child) to talk to and maybe someday your brother will be adult enough to sit down and rationally talk to you about options and everything you have been thru!  If not then you know that he is incapable of having a loving adult conversation with you about your heath, how you feel and the options available.  I also don't agree about not asking for a kidney.. now I am not saying you go up to someone and say "hey you have a kidney to spare wanna get tested and donate it to me?".  But a simple conversation with close friends and relatives is a healthy discussion to have and we all know the facts.... living donors are better period!  So keep on keeping on epoman and let's hope things will change or at least you can have an adult conversation with your brother.
Geoff

[okarol]

There is pressure, when someone asks you a favor, if you don't want to do it. But it's his BROTHER asking!
Epoman, I think it took courage to ask. Unfortunately you had expectations of a man who
is unable to give you the kind of loving response (and a yes, no or maybe) that you had hoped for. So
accept it, his silence speaks volumes.
I have found that total strangers are more willing to donate to our daughter than friends or family or
community members. I recently met a guy who jokingly asked on his tattoo forum "Anyone want to
give ma a kidney?" and guess what? Some guy said "Sure, I'll do it." Surgery was in May.
I think living donors are special, compassionate people who see a need and are wiling to help. Yours
is out there, just waiting to make the offer. You just haven't been open to a transplant, so no one has
offered. Perhaps if you keep "exploring options" then the opportunity will present itself.
I can't remember - they were changing the rules so that the beginning of wait time is no longer the
date you were listed - but was supposed to now be the date you began dialysis. Did this change take place?
If so, you can get evaluated by a transplant team and be in a very good position for a non-living kidney.
~Karol
I dunno, I guess you'll have to forgive your brother and let it go. Call him up and say "Hey, I was just kidding about
the kidney bro, can't ya take a effing joke? Hope to see you guys on Thanksgiving!"

[angieskidney]

I dunno, I guess you'll have to forgive your brother and let it go. Call him up and say "Hey, I was just kidding about
the kidney bro, can't ya take a effing joke? Hope to see you guys on Thanksgiving!"

Ya I agree on giving him a quick call to open the door back up so that he feels safe to call you. He might now be freaked. You don't know until he opens up.

Anyway, only reason I say that is because your situation reminds me of one you would expect to see on one of those shows .. where 2 brothers don't talk for years and down the road they realize that if they would have only talked things would have been different. Like maybe he misunderstood and he would have given a kidney if he had the facts but he was too scared to say ya sure because he worried he would be on dialysis and didn't think he could be as strong and the other brother who needed the kidney felt unloved because of the other brothers reaction.

I could be wrong ...

[sandman]

I know this is not what anyone wants to hear but has anyone taken into consideration what kind of shock this would bring on to a family member who even though he/she may have been expecting this question to come up, what there were never actually ready for it?  Not to sound like I am siding with the brother here but it does sound like Epoman pressured his brother pretty hard and didn't even give him a chance to prepair for such a serious question.

Epoman, I know that I know nothing about your family issues but could there be any truth behind what your bother said about your mother telling him not to donate a kidney to you?  Or could it be possible that your mother's spite of you has rubbed off on your bother?  I don't think you can blame your bothers reactions in such haste.  I mean, put yourself in his shoes.  Have you ever considered how you would want to be asked that same question?  I know you said that you love your bother enough that you would give him a kidney at the drop of a hat but, put all that aside.  What does your brother know about your condition, really?

[Epoman]

I dunno, I guess you'll have to forgive your brother and let it go. Call him up and say "Hey, I was just kidding about
the kidney bro, can't ya take a effing joke? Hope to see you guys on Thanksgiving!"

Ya I agree on giving him a quick call to open the door back up so that he feels safe to call you. He might now be freaked. You don't know until he opens up.

Anyway, only reason I say that is because your situation reminds me of one you would expect to see on one of those shows .. where 2 brothers don't talk for years and down the road they realize that if they would have only talked things would have been different. Like maybe he misunderstood and he would have given a kidney if he had the facts but he was too scared to say ya sure because he worried he would be on dialysis and didn't think he could be as strong and the other brother who needed the kidney felt unloved because of the other brothers reaction.

I could be wrong ...

Oh sure, I'll give him a call right away

"Hey Bro, I was just kidding about possibly giving me a kidney" or how about this "Hey bro I'm sorry I asked if you would consider giving me a kidney, it was very, very wrong of me" or how about this one "Hey bro, I'm an insensitive prick for asking you in the first place, can you ever forgive me, please? or maybe even "Hey bro, how's the pissing thing working out for ya?"

I will die on dialysis before I beg him again to please talk to me. I will die with my dignity in tact. Believe me it's his loss not mine.

Also I am getting real tired of people defending his actions of totally disregarding my feelings. I don't give a flying p*ck about him saying yes or no. I am pissed that he was silent, lied to me, and hung up on me. Can you people understand that? Some of you get it, but others are clueless. He has seen me in my darkest hours, throwing up buckets of blood, surviving Cancer, 13 years of dialysis, multiple surgery's, and he has the audacity to hang up on me and ignore me? AND YOU WANT ME TO CALL HIM AND BEG HIM TO TALK TO ME? p*ck THAT!!!!!!

Let me repeat myself for those who read between the lines, I KNOW HE DOESN'T OWE ME A KIDNEY, BUT HE DOES OWE ME RESPECT, NOT BECAUSE I AM SICK BUT BECAUSE WE ARE BROTHERS.

(Angie, just for clarification I was not talking to you directly, I was talking to EVERYONE, I was just quoting you)

[angieskidney]

"Hey bro, how's the pissing thing working out for ya?"

I like that one Maybe he would realize things from your point of view with that one

You should NOT apologize for asking! Infact, you asking has gotten me thinking .. on how to ask. I really don't know how to ask without upsetting someone. It seems like such a hard thing to do without cue from the other person that tells you that you can  ask..

I will die on dialysis before I beg him again to please talk to me. I will die with my dignity in tact. Believe me it's his loss not mine.

Also I am getting real tired of people defending his actions of totally disregarding my feelings. I don't give a flying p*ck about him saying yes or no. I am pissed that he was silent, lied to me, and hung up on me. Can you people understand that? Some of you get it, but others are clueless. He has seen me in my darkest hours, throwing up buckets of blood, surviving Cancer, 13 years of dialysis, multiple surgery's, and he has the audacity to hang up on me and ignore me? AND YOU WANT ME TO CALL HIM AND BEG HIM TO TALK TO ME? p*ck THAT!!!!!!

Let me repeat myself for those who read between the lines, I KNOW HE DOESN'T OWE ME A KIDNEY, BUT HE DOES OWE ME RESPECT, NOT BECAUSE I AM SICK BUT BECAUSE WE ARE BROTHERS.

(Angie, just for clarification I was not talking to you directly, I was talking to EVERYONE, I was just quoting you)

Ah thank you for that because I wasn't sure (seriously hehe)

I have a tendency of trying to see the other side because I figure you already know your own side well enough Just how I am. But honestly if I could I would go talk to him and tell him to stop being an idiot and give you SOME kind of answer which could be "I dunno bro .. I have to do a LOT more thinking about this as I have been in denial all this time.."

Just give it time. You did nothing wrong by the act of asking him. Maybe he just wasn't ready to be asked. He doesn't seem to be dealing with it very well and yet you have more to deal with than he does. I was just trying to explain his side just to help, but don't ever feel sorry for asking! 

[Epoman]

I know this is not what anyone wants to hear but has anyone taken into consideration what kind of shock this would bring on to a family member who even though he/she may have been expecting this question to come up, what there were never actually ready for it?  Not to sound like I am siding with the brother here but it does sound like Epoman pressured his brother pretty hard and didn't even give him a chance to prepair for such a serious question.
Epoman, I know that I know nothing about your family issues but could there be any truth behind what your bother said about your mother telling him not to donate a kidney to you?  Or could it be possible that your mother's spite of you has rubbed off on your bother?  I don't think you can blame your bothers reactions in such haste.  I mean, put yourself in his shoes.  Have you ever considered how you would want to be asked that same question?  I know you said that you love your bother enough that you would give him a kidney at the drop of a hat but, put all that aside.  What does your brother know about your condition, really?

OH p*ck ME! I pressured him pretty hard? I am getting really tired of hearing this. I asked him a question, not a stranger, not a friend, not a co-worker, MY ONLY BROTHER, I asked him "Would you consider giving me a kidney" then he would not even respond, he has had 13 years to prepare for this question, and to answer your question Jeff he knows EVERYTHING about what I have been through and knows all my health problems, read the post above this one where I quoted Angie.

My brother would not have to ASK in the first place if he needed a kidney. But what should I have done Jeff, took him to dinner and a movie first? Buy him a Plasma Screen? Then POP the question? How should I have asked him? Get my knee? Use a third party to causally bring it up? Offer to have Mitch broker the deal so he can buy a new car?

Yes my mother could have messed up his mind but that is no excuse, he is a grown man who doesn't even talk to his mother anymore. And again this is about him ignoring me and not respecting me enough to at the very least say "Hell no I won't give you a kidney"

(Again just for clarification, Jeff I am not mad at you for your post. I am just being a smartass)

[sandman]

I can see your just being a smartass.   No offense taken. 

I'm not saying you should wine him and dine him or anything.  But seriously.  You should have talked to him face to face about something like this firstly.  That way, there is no way he could dodge the question with the "oh, sorry bro, gotta go" thing, you know?  If say my sister was to ask me to donate a kidney, I would be much more comfortable if we got to talking about kidney disease and transplants and shit like that before I got popped with a question like that.  Work me up to it.  It's a very delicate matter and needs to be handled very carefully.  You can't just go up to a bother, sister, mother, father or friend and say "hey, I need a kidney.  Can you give me one of yours?"   You might as well drop a piano on my feet.  You see what I am getting at here?

[Epoman]

I can see your just being a smartass.   No offense taken. 

I'm not saying you should wine him and dine him or anything.  But seriously.  You should have talked to him face to face about something like this firstly.  That way, there is no way he could dodge the question with the "oh, sorry bro, gotta go" thing, you know?  If say my sister was to ask me to donate a kidney, I would be much more comfortable if we got to talking about kidney disease and transplants and shit like that before I got popped with a question like that.  Work me up to it.  It's a very delicate matter and needs to be handled very carefully.  You can't just go up to a bother, sister, mother, father or friend and say "hey, I need a kidney.  Can you give me one of yours?"   You might as well drop a piano on my feet.  You see what I am getting at here?

Ok, I'll give you that, I guess I did mess up by using the phone. I should have asked him face to face. But the thing is we always talk on the phone he has a busy schedule and so do I, so the phone is where we "meet up" to talk about what's going on or what's new.

[Sara]

If you wanted to, you could probably remedy this situation by saying something along the lines of, "It's kind of a serious subject, and hard to discuss over the phone.  I didn't mean to overwhelm you.  Let's plan to talk about it later when we both are face to face and have more time."  I mean, let's face it.  Apparently he needs to be treated like an adolescent since he's still acting like one.  How else would you expect a teenager to react if approached for something like this.  You didn't do anything wrong, but it may have been handled differently.  Hindsight's 20/20, though.  I just hate the idea of your relationship ending because you're too mad/proud to say anything to him and he's too freaked out/immature to call you.  Maybe this is a time when you have to be the older brother and make the first move.   

[okarol]

Hey E - your ranting makes me laff - I am sorry - but it's priceless! Too bad your bro doesn't have the same flair.
I can be stubborn, and I don't care! I am like an elephant, I never forget. I will accept, adapt, and endure, but
I don't open myse;lf up to be reinjured by family members. It's survival. I agree, you were dissed. People who
love you don't do that to you. All the excuses in the world for your brother's response wouldn't convince me that
it's ok. You can choose to handle it however you want. It reminds me that my sister's 2 kids, who are 28 and 30
still LIVING AT HOME, working part time and basically being flakes - have never even suggested that maybe they
could help my daughter (not just with a kidney, which of course would be great, but they could have visited her,
or sat with her once in the hospital, or send a freakin e-card!) but they haven't. I try to let go of resentment, but
that one is gonna take a while.
K

[Sluff]

The word Brother means you would do anything to help no matter the cost period. Thats the way I see it. Turn your back on family and your a chump plain and simple. Anyone can get mad at this statement  I don't care because it is the way I feel. I belong to a Motorcycle club and I would give my life for any one of my Brothers without hesitation, and their not even blood. When I was in the service I would have given my life to save a Brother in arms. So when it comes to BLOOD Brother the stakes would be the same if not higher.

Epoman you were hurt deep and have every right to feel the way you do.

I wish my kidneys were healthy, I wish I had hundreds of kidneys cause I would help everyone of you with a kidney no questions, no hesitation it would just be done.

[okarol]

Hey Epoman - This may be off subject - but I don't know where to post it so I will give it to you to do what you will.
I know you'll tell me if you've seen it. Ok, so whenever someone DOES express interest in living donation, I give them the following:

I thought this video, forwarded to us by a kidney patient in Maryland, is a good overview of
Living Kidney Donation http://video.umms.org:8080/ramgen/living_donor_kidney.rm?usehostname

(Note: the first time I tried to open it I got a message that it couldn't open, but I tried again after a minute and it worked.)

It opens up the discussion and answers a lot of questions. For what it's worth.

~Karol

[charee]

I think it took lots of guts to ask your brother in the first place, after my husband was confirmed not to match for me , my brother hasn't offered to be tested my sister has but she isn't compatible, when ever it comes up about blood groups his excuse is he doesn't know his and the subject is dropped real quick . I haven't got any great advice as I'm to chicken to even ask mine, but i see where you are coming from just a yes or no would be start . hang in there....

[angieskidney]

I haven't asked my one brother neither. Mostly because my mom already told me that my other brother was pressuring him and he got mad and it was obvious it was a no. My mom said because he is terrified, saying he could never go through what I go through. He enjoys drinking and being a stud with no scars way too much I guess 

Well .. you know how it is with people like that lol

But there was a friend who asked about organ donation years ago (about 3 years ago) ... I guess she opened the door back then .. but it was so long ago .. how do I reopen that door now that my mom can't give me a kidney?

Btw, I just watched that Video! That was an excellent one! Thanks for posting that! I am putting that now on my site and on D&T City! 

[Rerun]

It hit me when the guy said "it is one of the few times in life when you see someone suffering that you can do something".

That is so true.  When a loved one is dying from cancer you hear people say they would "do anything" to help that person.  But....would they?  Is it all talk because they know there is nothing they can do??

[jedimaster]

My friend. Compassion is the key word here. As much as you (and all of us) need a kidney, it's up to him to offer...and that has not happened just yet. You have to cool down, and understand him. Most likely is fear...to the unknown. You have to forgive him and try to understand him. At the end of the day, kidney or not, he is your brother. Don't bring up what you have done for him. We must give without asking for return. Sorry, but my advise here is YOU to call him and make peace. This kind of family wounds hurt more than not having kidneys.

[Epoman]

My friend. Compassion is the key word here. As much as you (and all of us) need a kidney, it's up to him to offer...and that has not happened just yet. You have to cool down, and understand him. Most likely is fear...to the unknown. You have to forgive him and try to understand him. At the end of the day, kidney or not, he is your brother. Don't bring up what you have done for him. We must give without asking for return. Sorry, but my advise here is YOU to call him and make peace. This kind of family wounds hurt more than not having kidneys.

Compassion goes both ways brother! Thanks for your advice but if you had read my previous posts, you would have read  "I'd rather die than beg him to talk to me again "I did NO wrong here and I can rest easy at night. HE hung up on ME, HE lied to ME, He threw my feelings in the TRASH, WHY should I call him first? And please don't tell me because I am the older brother. Just to clarify, later that night, the night I asked him, I called after the time he said he would call which was 8:30pm and he did not answer his phone, I tired 5 times. I finally left a message, and now several days have passed. Should I call again and look like an idiot and BEG him to talk to me?

He is perfectly healthy right now and even though he has seen me go through so much turmoil he has NO idea what it is like being chronically ill, it gives me pleasure knowing his day WILL come however, as it comes for all of us. It's just that "It" comes sooner for some than others.

[Sara]

You are hurting right now, but in time it will hurt less.  You may have no idea what it is like to be brainwashed by your mother to never do a certain thing, and then one day you're asked and you freeze.  He may be feeling so guilty and horrible and maybe that's why he "can't" call you.

[Epoman]

You are hurting right now, but in time it will hurt less.  You may have no idea what it is like to be brainwashed by your mother to never do a certain thing, and then one day you're asked and you freeze.  He may be feeling so guilty and horrible and maybe that's why he "can't" call you.

Oh I was brain washed for my entire life, for example my mom told me to never marry a WHITE girl (I am half white, half hispanic) because she said they are all whores. My mom is hispanic, but I ignored her and I didn't believe her and I married a very wonderful "white" girl. And NO I didn't just marry a white girl to spite her. I dated girls of all races.

My point is I am a MAN and I make my own decisions, my brother is a man and should be able to make his own decisions too, but he is not, he is a PUSSY.

[sandman]

Epoman.  Your bother is most likely scared shitless after seeing what you went through and he may not want to risk any chance he may have at a normal, healthy life.  I honestly don't believe he knows ALL the facts and is just going off of what he has seen you go through.  It's a shame you couldn't get him to join your site so he could learn more about you and your health issues.

[angieskidney]

ya that is why this site is valuable. There are so many things we DONT learn from the docs but instead do here.

Thanks Epoman for your site! 

That is why more people who are family or friends of a dialysis patient should come to sites like this

Not just patients themselves and caretakers and wives/husbands