no more free coffee

[del]

Bigsky for some people 6 hrs is a long time !!! Personally I find it hard to go for 6 hrs throughout the day without eating. I get very hungry and then get an upset stomach - usually because of hunger and gas pains.  When hubby was doing in center he had breakfast at 5:30 a.m . Had an hrs drive to the clinic. Was hooked up between 7 and 7:30 and got off the machine 4 hrs and 15 mins later!!! Then he had to be unhooked and stop bleeding . By the time he was ready to go it was usually 12 or after.  He needed to eat. he is not a diabetic but if he didn't have a snack and something to drink his blood pressure would drop. Plus he would be really hungry and then get gas pains from being hungry.  I say unless there is a medical reason for you NOT to eat you should be allowed to at the very least have a snack and something to drink.  There are so many restrictions with kidney failure why add another one.

As for cleaning up.  Patients should be told they have to clean up their own space before they leave - pick up garbage etc.  As for puke and other stuff that should be the nurse's or cleaners job.  I'm a teacher and if a child threw up in my class I would never make them clean it up. If the janitor wasn't available I would do it and I have on many occasions!!!

I can't believe centers are run like this. Here in Canada centers are government run so we don't get this for profit stuff (Thank God). 

[monrein]

I personally try never to "shovel food down my gullet" and the small meal that I eat while dialyzing takes me 40 minutes to consume as I savor it along with my cup of tea that accompanies it.  I eat every session, did it for 5 years last time I was on D, and the only time I have ever thrown up on the machine was the first time I cannulated myself.  Extreme restrictions can cause extreme reactions.  I myself am a big fan of moderation in most things  and try to avoid the extremes of anything.   Most of us in my clinic eat there and since April I have witnessed no adverse events other than one patient who was eating too much, dropping his BP as a result and now he eats a smaller meal or waits until after.   Problem solved. 

Cookie-cutter approaches are strictly for cookies.

[bette1]

I dialyze at a Forsinius Unit and I they have a no eating, no drinking policy.  It is a policy for our unit only as I have traveled to other units in the chain and been offered water and ice and allowed to eat.  I usually bring water because my mouth gets dry and a protin bar.  I have a hard time going hungry for so long and if I don't eat something, I usually lose my mind on the way home and end up going to the drive thru and eating something I shouldn't. 

I have talked to the dietitian and she said it was OK to eat my protein bars and I want to get the doctor to OK it.  It is a stupid policy but it was started because some patient were bringing in whole pizzas and creating a problem.  Instead of just dealing with the one stupid person, the punished everyone. 

I feel really insulted by the way these dialysis companies treat us.  We are paying them $1800 a week to be sh**.  It sucks.

[kidney4traci]

I do remeber people bringing in whole pizzas too or some barbeque ( Texas...) and it would smell alot.  I didn't care for that part sometimes as you may feel queazy.   

[Rerun]

I always bring a pop-tart and either a protein drink (Nepro) or now that I'm on 8 hours I get a cup of MILK.  YEAH....  I'm not saying to bring in a whole broasted Chicken from Safeway, but NOTHING to eat is ridiculous.  There is nothing wrong with a light snack.

Twirl is there another dialysis center close?  If there is, call and see what their policies are.  And move to another center if you have to.  Next there will be NO heat on these places...... oh wait that has already happened.

[wrandym]

At first, I found Twirl's post very aggravating and cannot understand why a business would implement a policy like that-they deserve to lose their customers and fail in the marketplace.  Back to that later...

Then, I red BigSky's replies.  Insensitive, to say the least.  I am not sure whether this person is a dialysis patient or a caregiver.  Whatever it may be, there is no care in that attitude and if they are a dialysis center worker-get another job and good luck in life.  If they are on dialysis, they need to take a step back and un-narrow their views.

I may be lucky that I live in a rural area and have 5 units-Davita and Fresenius-available within 50 miles-so I have choices.  within 12 miles of home there are 3 units.  I chose a Fresenius unit.  Not the closest unit, but this one had nocturnal seats.  I cannot say more about my treatment there.  The nurses and the techs are very friendly and accomadating.  They also tell me to bring a snack if I like.  I also am provided with a protein bar each visit because my albumin is low.  The unit also provides wifi-which I found out Friday when I brought my laptop.  Unfortunately nobody knows how to access the guest network  but they are more than willing to try and find out how.  Along with my dialysis, the extras in the care I receive are the product they are selling, and I would recommend them to any new patient.  Twirl, I don't see how this treatment you receive can be justified (unless there is a law or statute against it-then I would call my local politician) and I hope you have some recourse or can move to another center where better treatment can be received.  I am with the others-if my signature can be added to a list, count me in.

[jessup]

Then, I red BigSky's replies. Insensitive, to say the least.

Yes I was very shocked

[BigSky]

At first, I found Twirl's post very aggravating and cannot understand why a business would implement a policy like that-they deserve to lose their customers and fail in the marketplace.  Back to that later...

Then, I red BigSky's replies.  Insensitive, to say the least.  I am not sure whether this person is a dialysis patient or a caregiver.  Whatever it may be, there is no care in that attitude and if they are a dialysis center worker-get another job and good luck in life.  If they are on dialysis, they need to take a step back and un-narrow their views.

Spoken like a true newbie to dialysis.   That is if you really are on dialysis. 

Instead of thinking of only yourself you should be thinking of the unit as a whole.   Opps, that straight talk might be insensitive to you.

We all know why units do this and it is a medical issue, dangerous to other patients  and the legal liability that occurs to units when something goes wrong.

[kidney4traci]

How is it dangerous to other patients to eat?

[paddbear0000]

There are situations you have no clue to where people may need food. No one is normal on dialysis and everyone reacts differently. Diabetics for one don't all react the same as you so think at your unit and I doubt your there through all the shifts watching each and everyone of them taking notes to see how their blod sugars are, how they feel, ect. If a nurse or tech has to give glucose, then they are only putting a band aid on the situation. Glucose is for emergency situations and makes diabetes a little bit harder to control afterwards when you do get some food. Food on the other hand absorbs slowly and last longer in the body compared to glucose/D50 in saline.

Exactly! I am a type 1 diabetic, and an extremely brittle one at that. As my kidney function declines, I have more and more trouble keeping my blood sugars up because my body can not eliminate the insulin as well (thanks to my pesky kidneys!), so it builds up in my body. My blood sugars also fluctuate wildly. It doesn't matter what I do, when; they can go from 500 to 30 in 45 minutes and vice versa! I can't wait 6 hours to eat. And glucose makes me violently sick. So they'd have to clean my puke up anyway. And due to my autonomic neuropathy (from the diabetes), I can't feel low blood sugars until they hit the 30's, which is extremely dangerous. Oh yeah, and I can no longer tell if my blood sugar is high or low based on how I feel. I used to get shaky when low and nauseous when high, but I have both of those symptoms almost constantly due to my worsening kidneys.

Once I start dialysis, I have no choice but to find a center that allows eating. And the moment they stop letting us eat, is the day I leave.

[Chris]

How is it dangerous to other patients to eat?

I have to wonder also, but to truely understand his view, gonna need an essay report  or something because so far his view does not have any insight other than opinion in my view.

[jessup]

Jeez you're brave
I am never ever again going to reply to  posts from certain members 

[wrandym]

Give me some more straight talk, and explain how this can be dangerous to the unit because I do not know why units do this.  If it is such a legal liability, why is it acceptable in some units? Stop trolling and taking jabs and explain your points.  All I have seen you do is lash out.  Why are you so angry?  I bet if you took a poll of any unit you walked in to, a big honkin' majority would disagree with you.  I bet if this was made into a poll question you would see the same results.  This falls into patient care and comfort, and is not ridiculous-as you seem to think it is.

I would agree that a full, hot meal or a delivered pizza is a little out of the question, but a snack or light meal is not.  You say that going 6 hours without food is not uncomfortable.  Might be fine for you, but diabetics that have made it this far, the 20 years or so that it takes to reach dialysis.  Have been taking smaller meals at shorter intervals to keep their blood sugar more level and 6 hours is a long time.  I am sure that any unit would not want the "legal liability" of a diabetic crashing on them.

Yes, I am a newbie to dialysis.  Everyone on dialysis was at one time.  Not sure if this jab was provoke me in to, and bringing into question as to whether I am on dialysis or not is just plain stupid.  I doubt anyone here wants to be-look at the site name.

[okarol]

We all know why units do this and it is a medical issue, dangerous to other patients  and the legal liability that occurs to units when something goes wrong.

All units do NOT do this, and we all know why. Eating is natural and necessary.

If liability were a big issue, then even hospitals and restaurants would stop serving meals. 

[Chris]

Jeez you're brave
I am never ever again going to reply to  posts from certain members 

What?
All I did was ask for an explanation of his view that is more insightful to better understand why he believes what he believes. I'm not attacking, just trying to understand.
Whatever you do don't stop posting, I may not have something to say, ohh wait there's Who Loves IHD The Most.......

[kitkatz]

Everyone on this board has an opinion and is allowed to express it barring personal attacks. Please keep this in mind when discussing this subject.  It seems to have it a sore nerve.

kitkatz,Moderator

[Rerun]

I wish they would make it a rule to not FART at the clinic.  I would go for that!  Talk about nauseating!  The person next to me.... the guy that dresses like a woman... and has her missing leg between us.... acts like the GUY when she farts.  Holy Mother!  I'm sure the vinyl on the chair ripped 3 inches Thursday night!   Now, I suppose her BIG Buck Burrito didn't help.  At that I give Big Sky a point. 

A light snack that doesn't produce gas is what should be the unspoken rule!               

[Chris]

I wish they would make it a rule to not FART at the clinic.  I would go for that!  Talk about nauseating!  The person next to me.... the guy that dresses like a woman... and has her missing leg between us.... acts like the GUY when she farts.  Holy Mother!  I'm sure the vinyl on the chair ripped 3 inches Thursday night!   Now, I suppose her BIG Buck Burrito didn't help.  At that I give Big Sky a point. 

A light snack that doesn't produce gas is what should be the unspoken rule!               

 

[wrandym]

I wish they would make it a rule to not FART at the clinic.  I would go for that!  Talk about nauseating!  The person next to me.... the guy that dresses like a woman... and has her missing leg between us.... acts like the GUY when she farts.  Holy Mother!  I'm sure the vinyl on the chair ripped 3 inches Thursday night!   Now, I suppose her BIG Buck Burrito didn't help.  At that I give Big Sky a point. 

A light snack that doesn't produce gas is what should be the unspoken rule!               

I have to plea guilty...Eight hours in that chair-can't really go anywhere.  I try not to just let it rip and only let off pressure over time.

[Rerun]

       I like the way you put that!!!

[BigSky]

Give me some more straight talk, and explain how this can be dangerous to the unit because I do not know why units do this.

Its pretty simple and has to due with staffing of the unit.   I have been in 9 different units and the staffing ratio tends to be 1 to 3 or 1 to 4.

As such if someone aspirates that takes nurses away from those other patients.  At a minimum two nurses if not more are going to need to attend to the situation thus leaving others unattended thus possibly putting them in danger.  All over something that can be avoided.

 If it is such a legal liability, why is it acceptable in some units?

I will refrain from saying just how stupid that question is.......

It occurs all the time where a business does something that creates a legal liability for them and continues it up to the point that they end up facing that liability in court.  History is full of this happening time and time again in business.

 

Stop trolling and taking jabs and explain your points.  All I have seen you do is lash out.  Why are you so angry?  I bet if you took a poll of any unit you walked in to, a big honkin' majority would disagree with you.  I bet if this was made into a poll question you would see the same results.  This falls into patient care and comfort, and is not ridiculous-as you seem to think it is.

I stated something in a area and you are the one who attacked me.  So that would make you the one that is angry.

Polls?  Ya right.  Evidently you missed the part where I said people will do what they want no matter what is best for them and use any excuse to justify it.





 

I would agree that a full, hot meal or a delivered pizza is a little out of the question, but a snack or light meal is not.  You say that going 6 hours without food is not uncomfortable.  Might be fine for you, but diabetics that have made it this far, the 20 years or so that it takes to reach dialysis.  Have been taking smaller meals at shorter intervals to keep their blood sugar more level and 6 hours is a long time.  I am sure that any unit would not want the "legal liability" of a diabetic crashing on them.

Evidently you must not control it very well then since you must get up several times a night since you cannot go 6 hours without.

Yes, I am a newbie to dialysis.  Everyone on dialysis was at one time.  Not sure if this jab was provoke me in to, and bringing into question as to whether I am on dialysis or not is just plain stupid.  I doubt anyone here wants to be-look at the site name.

Actually it was a sarcasm in response to your attack.

All units do NOT do this, and we all know why. Eating is natural and necessary.

If liability were a big issue, then even hospitals and restaurants would stop serving meals. 

You are taking it out of context.

[okarol]

 

[Wenchie58]

I thought there were no "stupid" ideas on this site?

Everyone gets to have an opinion, even if it may

differ with others.  Without getting called stupid, ignorant or

any other fun little name.

Just sayin.

[Chris]

BigSky, you should not talk about diabetes unless you have dealt with it for a long time. Apparently you do not know anything about diabetes and it's complications that effects every aspect of the body.

As a matter of fact, some diabetics do have to get up in the middle of the night to have a snack to keep their blood sugar in control rather than eating a large meal and upsetting the balance and control between blood sugar and insulin or in some cases medications with type 2 diabetics. Even in diabetics who do notget up at night, may have a low blood sugar attack once in awhile even though they have good control of their diabetes. There's also conditions that diabetics develop during their rest where their blood sugars run erratic and run high. When they wake up, they always have a high blood sugar. Once that is controlled in the morning, they have to have snacks throughout the day.

Unless you have first hand experience with diabetes, I wouldn't be making comments like you have made to wrandym.

If you want to make more accusations about diabetes, bring it on. But you better be prepared and some criticisms from other diabetics on here.

[RichardMEL]

Wow this has become quite the contraversy! I get stuck at work for most of the weekend and have missed out!

First of all, Rerun thank you for the dose of humour (I know farting isn't funny when you can't escape it... I have experienced it too, and worse) but it was perfett timing.. thank you

As for the main contention I don't think ANYONE condones taking in whole pizzas or fried food or whatever. In my unit we have packed sandwiches which the PSA gives us (along with tea or coffee). My shift starts AT lunchtime so it is appropriate and the food (such as it is) is provided by the hospital. On the morning shift they come around around 10am with tea/coffee & biscuits and cheese. Again not messy and provided. If an inpatient comes from a ward they often get a cooked meal sent down (and sometimes they smell quite nice even though I bet they aren't in reality - it is after all hospital food!!  ). As others have said sometimes diabetics need something to up their BSL and that's important. Our unit always has a supply of sweet biscuits on hand. And of course if someone finishes underweight and low BP they often won't let them leave without a cup of coffee or tea to get them back on the straight and narrow.

Heck sometimes the nurses themselves bring in food, or on birthdays we bring in cake to share with everyone - patients and staff. That to me is all about community and doesn't cause issues at all!! For Christmas the staff brought in some scones and cream and we had a Kris Kringle.. that was really lovely. It was appropriate for those on dialysis and a bit of fun and something different. For NYE I have brought in champagne.

I think it should all be about what is appropriate and what isn't. Some people clearly in some situations don't know what is appropriate and go over the line (eg: bringing in fast food, pizza etc). I can see why that would upset some people. I sometimes wonder if my little jar of sweets makes diabetic patients uneasy... but nobody's ever said anything I certainly don't want to go out of my way to upset someone like that.

As for the vomit and other unintended excretions.. I think that is a totally DIFFERENT issue. Even if you've "shovelled" food down your throat or are just ill you don't deliberately go to puke up and SOME people do not handle dialysis so well (food or no food) and will throw up or have other accidents. In my view that is for the staff to help clean up because when we're tied up to the damn machine it's not like we can do very much with one arm and being unable to move. I don't think it's related at all to the other issue.

Unfortunately I've seen it all in my unit.. people throwing up, people being incontinent or bleeding badly etc etc... I don't think it's their fault and it's not something they really want to be doing on purpose... and are horribly embarassed and feel even worse when it happens. The unit need to be appropriate with how they handle it. My unit is appropriate they draw a curtain and just deal with it and try to minimise the discomfort to the patient (and others) as much as possible and as quickly as possible.

Well that's all I have to say on this for now.