I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: General Discussion => Topic started by: KICKSTART on July 21, 2009, 09:24:08 AM
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Ive been to the hospital today for IV iron , so picked up a magazine to read while i was there and in it was an article on a woman who has chosen to die!!!. She was only 47 and decided to quit dialysis as for other health reasons she wouldnt get a transplant. Now i dont know why but it stirred up a lot of mixed emotions in me and i was suprised that i felt angry! I know everyone has the right to choose but maybe it was how the article was written , i really dont know. We all know what kidney failure is like , some of us know about dialysis and none of it is easy or fun. But this woman wrote about it like it was hell on earth , the tiredness, the vomiting ,the being a total burden to everyone (and she had loads of support from a loving family as well) but she still couldnt cope. I think thats what made me angry ..how on earth does she think that people who are on their own cope ? I would hate to think i was a burden but surely we are not ? and although its not nice , surely its not a living hell either ? Yes we would all love to wake up healthy but i still think even though we are not, we still have some quality of life dont we? I think it was just the way it was written possibly that shocked me .
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yeah, some people just can't handle the disappointment that comes with learning your kidneys are finished. it's like the depression issue. i have met people who have no health problems at all, but they 'must' take anti-depressants or they get so down that suicide becomes a serious concern.
i'd like to just shake these people around, maybe slap them a bit, wake them up to the fact that if you have your health, you have no reason to be depressed.
my dialysis team has, from time to time, shown concern for me when my mood shifts to the darker side.
but i refuse to take anti depressants. why shouldn't we get depressed from time to time? it's a natural process, especially for people in our position. like, we're supposed to be positive, happy, smiling, loving saints all of the time? *sheesh*
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Losing your kidneys is a lot like getting an amputation. A major part of the body is gone. Grief process hits and you have to deal with lot of stuff all at once!
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Lizard:
Your post makes me really angry. As lots of people don't understand kidney disease, you've made it apparent that you don't have the slightest conception of depression. I'd like to see you try and SHAKE me while I'm in a low. You have shown the ultimate of insensitive. I've seen lots of it in here, but your post takes the cake. You really make me angry. There may be others in here who suffer from depresssion. I hope you hear from then all.
Kickstart ( who yells her name in each post -- see capitalization rules.)
As for not doing dialysis, that is totally up to the individual to choose to live or die and you have no right to judge. It is worse on some than others, some have little support through it. Most of us DON'T however write one Negative post after another. Many people internalize it while others do outwardly the "poor me" routine. Your post made me angry too and opened up a dialogue I'd like to see carred forward with more enlightened people.
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well, you have the appropriate avatar, dwcrawford. :rofl;
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Even through depression and kidney failure, I still have a sense of humor.
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The problem with expressing a view is that someone else takes it personally.
I understand what LL is saying. Someone in depression, though it is difficult, can work at getting out of depression while someone with failed kidneys can't.
Peace.
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You do not understand either. Someone who is depressed can get out of it. Someone in a clinical depression cannot get out of it alone. Read. Of course as a WIFE of someone wih kidney problems and able bodied yourself, you don't really have a point of reference do you? Please note too that I did address each issue seperately and did not compare to say one is worse than the other. But then again, some of us have both.
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Even through depression and kidney failure, I still have a sense of humor.
i have yet to see evidence of a sense of humor from you. but that's understandable if you're depressed.
to clarify, i was talking about people WHO HAVE NO PHYSICAL HEALTH PROBLEMS who take anti-depressants because of emotional problems. like a friend of mine who was unhappy in his marriage so he got his doc to prescribe anti-depressants, he beame addicted to them and years later developed a heart problem because of the meds and had to have a triple bypass to save his life.
i have not been on this board for months because of how some people react to me expressing my views.
you need some psychiatric assistans crawford, but i won't be back here anytime soon as long as someone like you is here. some 'support group.' *sheesh*
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WOW, this wasn't about depression, this was about someone feeling so low that at 47 they decided dying is easier then living.
Beating up on each other doesn't really help now does it... Everyones experience with kidney disease is different, some have many people helping them, some have none...
Some have lots of money to live on while doing dialysis and unable to work, some have barely enough to eat... belittling others experience is terrible, shame shame
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Please everyone...step back a moment. It makes me sad that (for now) my husband is leaning toward no treatment for his stage 4 kidney disease. However it is his decision. I have seen this man through 2 brain surgery's, 2 hand surgery's , one shoulder surgery and 2 knee replacements. Currently he feels like hell and all the doctors seem to do is prescibe another pill. He is up to his eyeballs in pain, medication and depression. He takes enough antidepressants to put almost anyone under the table. He has lots of family support but none of it takes away the pain, and certainly doesn't help the horrible depression. If you can deal with it that is wonderful. I appreciate your outlook and the fact that you feel like 'shaking' the lady who has decided to let God (or mother nature or whatever you call it in your world) take over and stop the inevitable.
Opinions are just that, and everyone is entitled to have one...just don't preach to me. I love my husband but the pain he is going through will not improve with dialysis. It might with a transplant but from what I hear on this site and from his nephrologist....he will not do well on dialysis.
We have seen similar posts about patients refusing treatment and I agree with Crawford, it's their choice and I think we have to respect each persons decision. PLEASE!
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FYI: I had counseling and meds long before kidney diseasee. People should not make blanket statement with not knowledge of the subject. And I have the same rights to speak up for myself as the rest of you do. If Admin wants to kick me out, fine.
Just as kidney disease varies from person to person, so does depression. I don't appreciated being put in the category of getting shaken or slapped based on you friends domestic problems. Mine started at 25, though I owe you no explaination, with the suicide of my sister whom I love deeply. No one in the family has ever gotten over it even with an enormous amount of Psychiatric help.
I hope if all your comments at this "sensitive" that you might think about how they sound in the future.
Kim: Lizard made it about depression. Not I. As I stated, everyone experience kidney failure in a different way. My main point is that noone has the right to judge. Helping: I have a couple of good friends and a fantastic team of doctors and nurses. Money: I have plenty and don't have to work. But what can I do with it? Really limited as to how to enjoy it now. And no, I am not contemplating suicide. Just understand why someone could or would.
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never assume that I don't understand that
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RIGHT dwcrawford firstly let me say i dont shout my name, it has been in CAPITOLS from day one buddy and NO ONE has ever objected. Secondly i will back up LL in saying that the atmosphere of this 'support group' is begining to change (and i have been here for a long time) You seem to like to attack the very people that you have most in common with for some reason ?
The post i wrote was not to judge one way or another , it was to say i was suprised to find this woman had given up so easily and chosen to die and i was asking ..are we a burden ? is that how we are viewed? is this a living hell? and i was suprised at how angry i felt about it because at the end of the day its not all bad.
Also if you feel i write ONE NEGATIVE POST AFTER ANOTHER THEN 'DONT' READ THEM !
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Personally, I find it easier to deal with dialysis than I do with going into a deep depression ever few weeks. Of course, I'm not nearly in as bad a shape as most of the other 3 or 4 hundered people in my center and I have excellent uplifting nurses, tech, staff, doctors and friends.
Kickstart (know its always been in alll caps. what kind of ego does that show?) And if you only knew how many peope have vowed to not ready your post. I just wanted to know what your were bitching about this time. Usually I don't read anything with your capitalized name in it and would not have responded to this had "depression" not been approached so negatively. Usually I try and be positive but there are somethings just too far out.
And from my perspective it is not a living hell (just a few hours of purgatory) and as being a burden, I hope not but I suppose we could be if we chose to be.
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you say 'no one has a right to judge' and then you proceed to judge everyone. what a damn hypocrite. you are worse than 'depressed' dude.
you're plain nuts.
i'm gone, so save your smart ass B/S for someone that cares.
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Have you not facts or arguments to back up your assertions or do you intend to rest your case my being Plain Nuts.
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DWCRAWFORD you seem to have turned this into your own personal battleground for attacking other members . EGO EGO im anything but egotistical as plenty of other members will know. Also i would love to know how you know, how many others have vowed not to read my posts ? Have you received lots of pm's telling you ? And as for bitching ..well the only thing i have to bitch about is your attitude. I wont bother to continue reading your replies im like LL i CBA with you.
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Have you received lots of pm's telling you ? Ans: Yes, a few and several discussions in Chats.
And note: I didn't attach you people personlly. Just your ideas. As far as Plain Nuts, there's not a lot about me that is PLAIN. Crazy enough to put and end to this? You bet.
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You do not understand either. Someone who is depressed can get out of it. Someone in a clinical depression cannot get out of it alone. Read. Of course as a WIFE of someone wih kidney problems and able bodied yourself, you don't really have a point of reference do you?
:urcrazy;
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TO ALL MEMBERS:
Express your opinions and remarks about the subject of the thread.
Refrain from personal attacks and name calling.
This is a warning -- anyone who continues to make these attacks will get a 30 day ban.
okarol/admin
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:urcrazy; :sir ken;
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Wow
Dw chill out. I read LL posts in a different light then you did to say the least.
I always see you post how people misunderstand what you wre trying to say.
Maybe you are reading more into this then need be.
On top of that you are starting to isolate people which in a setting like this is a very BAD thing to do. i understand a few if not many dont like me. merely for my political stance. So we dont talk politics with each other. If anyone hates me for mor ethen that so be it.
But for someone to talk trash behind my back makes them look scared and foolish IMO. If you cant say it to someones face why say it at all.
I understood Kickstarts post. I understood LL's post and every other post on this thread.
Im not sure where your coming from. If we cant have opinions and be different why are we here.
Will you now go talk behind my back about what an AS$hole i am. I have no beef with you but i also dont pity you. When you first came here you were more scared then a little school girl. Now your calling people out?? I dont get it???
No one said anything about you. Yet it is now about you??
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I don't know your politics. I doubt you know mine but as you probably suspect, I am a liberal democrat. I remember a couple of unkind things you said to me when I first came here. Yes, I was scared when I first came here. I had just been told about my kidneys and dialysis and I was ready to just do what the lady in the first post of thinking of. At the time I was all alone in this. Though I've fought some issuees, I'm am thankful to have run into some very positive and inspirational people
I resent your comment on as "a little school grils" but it isn't as bad as the things you said to me when I was new. Those things, and not your politics are the reason I've purposely avoiod you.
I only comment on ideas and concepts. You have no need to pity me. I try and make that clear daily. I am fine in everyway except I still get bored in dialysis.
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I never said anything negative towards you let alone several things.. Show me where i did i would like to see it.
The school girl thing was a metaphor and i care less about anyones political persuasion. That was in reference to me not you. But again you can make it about you DW.
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I didn't say several things... I said two things. I just read some of your political comments. Believe it or not, I agree with many of them. I'm a liberal democrat who voted for John McCain because I felt Obama was fiscally irresponsible (and I believe he has been). But our social attitudes are far divided I suspect.
I'm sorry you can't understand being afraid when learning you'll spend the rest of your life on dialysis and how to handle it. Your life is about YOU as mine is about ME, PK.
I know absolutely nothing about you and I'm sure you have no idea who I am. It is hard to know the people you care about online much less those who just come down on your when the get a chance.
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Okarol has reminded us to play nice. Everyone take a deep breath. Back to the article, I have known two teenagers (without any deadly diseases) who committed suicide. I had a friend in St.Louis call me in N.C. saying he had a fifth of whiskey and a gun and was sitting out in a cornfield. Depression is overwhelming and debilitating. When you can't see any light because you are in such a dark hole, leaving everything seems like the only solution. On the other hand, organ failure can bring on it's own depression. I think we are all in some degree of pain and depression. Some days are worse than others. I think I can understand not wanting to burdon family for years with bills and caretaking. Those who deal with these huge issues on their own, have my deepest respect. It must be overwhelming. As I go through different threads, I can almost tell who is dealing with huge decisions or problems when they are posting. We are in similar boats; some with power motors, others with oars, and some just drifting in circles. I love you all. :cuddle;
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Kickstart - I can understand how reading that would upset you. One thing that I've learned from this disease is how strong I am. I didn't know I had all this strength until I had to use it. I'm actually proud of myself for being this strong. There are days when it's difficult to find that strength, but I don't beat myself up, I just get through the day. You are a strong person. You should be proud of yourself.
I am sad for that person who has given up - she wasn't strong, she couldn't fight the fight.
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Sounds to me like self pity is going to kill her. I have felt sorry for myself in the past until I realize it and snap myself out of it. Personally I believe the majority of depressed people just need a convinient excuse to wallow in self pity and mind altering medications, but i've only been in the kidney failure game for 13 years so mabey it hasn't had time to hit me yet. I have witnessed true depression when my sister lost her son at a young age, so I know it is very real. Someone in her group of "supporters" needs give her a swift kick in the a$$, and put her back in the real world.
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I wasnt going to come back to this thread (for reasons i shall not say) but its seems i have left a couple of important points out . Firstly she is British , so no costs involved! Secondly she had to undergo numerous examinations to prove she wasnt depressed and of sound mind , everyone has been presuming she is depressed ( sorry ) My post was not a judgement one way or another , i just suprised myself that i felt angry at reading the story. Most of the time dialysis is underplayed , treated like a cold , but the way this woman portrayed it , it was worse than a living hell. If i was newly diagnosed that article would have had me wanting to commit suicide if i thought for one minute that was to be my life with kidney failure. Its not often i knock any press/publicity about kidney failure , but that article was very one sided and made our lives seem hopeless.
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Everyone has their own opinions..on everything. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, whether or not you personally think it's "right", well that's your own opinion. It's one big circle.
Dialysis is a way you can deal with renal failure. So is a transplant. So is death. It's a person's decision on which way to deal with it. While it is sad to see people choose death over dialysis, well, sometimes people feel dialysis is an ultimate death.
Everybody....we are all in this renal row boat together...do we need to be hiting eachother with the oars as we go down the river?
:Kit n Stik; :Kit n Stik;
If so, I want Kit and her stick on my team! I hear she hits hard! :rofl;
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I do understand what you are saying and I'm sorry I misinterrup;ed you in the beginning. I had feelings like what am I doing if you can't expect to live a full life anyway and about articles that say if you are over 60 then you'll die waiting for a kidney and those that talk only about transplant saying that dialysis is no kind of life. But then we don't know the personal story of the woman who made that decision. All I was saying on this subject is that we can't make that decision for her just as people couldn't make it for me initially. My main issue is with the Depression comments. Just as people need to undderstand kidney issues before making stupid comments (remember the thread "ignormant things people have said, people should understand depressions before making such blankets comments.
Sutphendiver: Believe me depression is not self pity. There are times when I find it totally impossible to change a light bulb, and other times when I'm up beat that I'm upset because I can't run around the block (just old legs won't work). And it had nothing to do with kidney disease.
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i'm 60. recently, because of this nasty lung infection,(and severe constipation because of the antibiotics i'm on) i had my bout with depression and a loss of hope after seeing my transplant team a few weeks ago, who told me that i will not be eligible for a transplant until my cardiologist fixes my heart. he won't fix it until i am in 'crisis.' he says. so, basically, i am pretty much screwed. i emailed my dialysis team and told them that i now understand why people become terrorists. i also told them i understand now, why previously quiet men go crazy and start killing people around them. i do understand. that doesn't mean i'm headed that way, by any means, but it sure got a rise out of my dialysis team.
sometimes, depression can lead to fun.
:rofl; :yahoo; :beer1; :waving;
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I agree with Dan in that depression is one of those things that is really hard to understand if you haven't had it. From the outside it seems as if you should just 'give them a kick' but when you're the one who feels like they're in a tunnel with no light at the end it's definitely not that easy. I'm sorry people have got upset with each other, but try to understand that the reason for the upset is having such deep feelings about the subject. You cannot know how you would respond to a deep depression. Do not assume you could just pull yourself out of it. Saying that makes others who have had depression feel that you are saying they should have 'just' pulled themselves out of it. Can you see that? There's no'just' about depression.
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Kickstart - I can understand how reading that would upset you. One thing that I've learned from this disease is how strong I am. I didn't know I had all this strength until I had to use it. I'm actually proud of myself for being this strong. There are days when it's difficult to find that strength, but I don't beat myself up, I just get through the day. You are a strong person. You should be proud of yourself.
I am sad for that person who has given up - she wasn't strong, she couldn't fight the fight.
:clap;
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no one can say that their depression is worse than anyone elses'. that is just not reasonable.
it is a sad thing that someone would choose to let themselves die rather than accept a life on dialysis. but, it's only sad for us who have considered the same thing. it's too close to home to be able to observe such a scenario objectively. i have neen depressed and close to ending my life more than once since i began dialysis. what keeps me going in those dark times is the people around me who give me hope, no matter how small and nebulous, hope is hope. we can live days without food or drink, a few weeks without dialysis, maybe, minutes without air, but hope, we can't live one second without it.
may you all find cause for hope. ALL of you! ( dcrawford included. )
and thank you, those of you, who have given me hope. thank you so much!
love
LL
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You you can remeember what it was like being depressed then try and imagine what it would be like if you never knew when it was going to happen again and that, it will still come even though you fight with every ounce of your being to prevent it.
By the way, my only medication is prosac which was prescriped when I first found out about kidney and after I had decided not to do dialysis. It is prescribed for many people with depressive illnesses like kidney failure.
Also, depression does not indicate any lacked of sanity (we know we are depressed), of lack of intelligence or reasoning. I am a little crazy, but definitly now plain nuts.
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I have thought about giving up and letting go -
I'd last about 2 -3 weeks
but I decided for now to go on --- at least for now --
I am depressed but I have reasons to go on
a friend at dialysis did decided to stop dialysis --
he is now gone at 83 or 85
I think we are entitled to make our own decisions about continuing or quitting dialysis
no one really knows how anyone feels about their decisions
I am on alot of prozac and I think it has stopped helping me
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well, not to be critical, but i feel that to take medication for depression is a double-edged sword. you will end up cutting yourself, sooner or later.
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I have never tried to compare my depression or my kidney disease with anyones. I've said many many time how much better I have things than most people do. I have 3 of the best friends that anyone who hope for, I had nephrologist who genuinglly care about me and an intenal doctoer that I truly love (who found all the good nephs for me), dialysis staff comparable to none I can imagine, i have enough money to live comfortable for the rest of my life and good insurance, my house is paid for and my taxes are frozen.
As for depression, I've experienced it in others far greater than mine. After three or four days I can change light bulbs and put on clean clothes. How could I possibly be depressed. I wish I knew. I even wish you could tell me, or at least tell the therapist so that she can pass it on to me.
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twirl, I take 40 mg. he wanted to up it after I'd tried it for a month but I said no. I intend to get off as soon as they get through torturing my fistula. Maybe I am just as unpopular at the center as I am here as on Monday, three different nurses were fighting over who gets to start sticking me tomorrow (they were the three that I has asked for however but I don't want to make any of them made because this is Texas and Lufkin isn't far and I think I saw a bottle of bleach.
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The topic seems to have gone back to depression somehow which isnt originally what i wrote about , but i will add my two'penny worth anyhow. Everone thinks of depression as a 'mood' be it a black one or an uncontrollable one ,but not a good place to be. I to have had a bout of it , now normally you can throw anything at me and i bounce back with something positive eventually. So i sat and talked to one of the renal doctors about it , saying this is not me , i never get depressed etc etc and she gave me an answer that was one of the best explainations about it , now its up to you if want to believe it possible, but to me it seemed very logical. She said depression is extremely common in dialysis patients as its caused by the imbalance of chemicals in the brain , thus producing depression. Which to be honest makes sense to me as most of the things in our bodies are governed by our kidneys , taking anti depressants is nothing to be ashamed of as these help retore that balance .
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The topic seems to have gone back to depression somehow which isnt originally what i wrote about , but i will add my two'penny worth anyhow. Everone thinks of depression as a 'mood' be it a black one or an uncontrollable one ,but not a good place to be. I to have had a bout of it , now normally you can throw anything at me and i bounce back with something positive eventually. So i sat and talked to one of the renal doctors about it , saying this is not me , i never get depressed etc etc and she gave me an answer that was one of the best explainations about it , now its up to you if want to believe it possible, but to me it seemed very logical. She said depression is extremely common in dialysis patients as its caused by the imbalance of chemicals in the brain , thus producing depression. Which to be honest makes sense to me as most of the things in our bodies are governed by our kidneys , taking anti depressants is nothing to be ashamed of as these help retore that balance .
well said :bow; I agree totally
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I think she is totally correct. Though I'll have to repeat that depression for some of us was here long before dialysis (which obvious exacerbates it). And perhaps the anti depressants do something to keep those chemicals in balance?
And kickstart, I doubt if we have as many contradictory areas as it seemed intimately. Looks like we may agree with more than we disagree on.
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And kickstart, I doubt if we have as many contradictory areas as it seemed intimately. Looks like we may agree with more than we disagree on.
:clap; :cheer:
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yes, well my take on depression, and i'll shut up about it after this, is that to deal with it chemically is an option that some people simply must give in to. i have experienced depression, believe me, but i refuse to treat it chemically, simply because of the disasters i have seen so many people come to who do choose the chemical route. eventually, prozac actually causes the depression to worsen.
i believe that there are a few tools we can use to ward off the occasional bout of depression. one; a sense of humor is vital. two; breathing exercises are also vital. deep, belly breathing for at least 10 minutes a day. three; friends and/or family that give you hope and accept you for who you are.
luck, hope and love to all.
LL :thx;
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and I believe Okarol comments on name calling was meanst not only for this thread but for others. I hear some people are going balistic in other threads about me.
I wouldn't use Tom Cruise for a doctor either.
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I am sorry to hear about this lady who at the age of 47 is ready to give up.
Since I didn't read the article, it's difficult to say what kind of extenuating circumstances in her life led her to choose this outcome. Since we can't walk a mile in somebody else's shoes, we will never know. I am prepared to accept and respect her decision, though.
As long as she's been evaluated for depression. As for anti-depressants. I have taken them on occasion to get me through the VERY bad times. I hate taking them because I always get side effects. Everyone handles life issues differently and here, on this message board, we need the freedom to express ourselves. I always learn something from other people's points of fews, so let's foster opinions rather than make fun of them.
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Kickstart, I think your anger is an interesting reaction - what part made you angry? Were you mad at her describing herself as a burden? Or mad that she chose to quit trying? It can't be the first article you've ever read where someone describes living on dialysis as "hell on earth". Okarol must post at least one of those a week in the News section. So why did this one strike such a chord for you?
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jbeany I was suprised that my reaction was one of anger , i dont think it was related to the woman directly , more her attitude. She seemed to think that as soon as someone had kidney failure they were useless , a burden. It was very one sided , what about all the people who still go on to do things even with kidney failure , that still have at least some quality of life ( i know its not always brilliant) The article just came across to me as .. i have kidney failure , im useless now so i might as well die. I dont usually read this sort of article. I just think it put across a lot of negatives and like i said before would terrify someone just being diagnosed.
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I think I wrote this before, but \i will again.... I had a fellow that was beside me in dialysis, he was the meanest of mean, he was only 35. Very bad diabetic, and didn't watch his diet and all that jazz.
He was from a town that didn't take central lines, so he had to come to my clinic. He always had the craps (while on dialysis , in the poo chair) and he even vomited allot. Well he finally got a working fistula and was transfered to his own town.
I asked about his a few months ago and was told that he took himself off dialysis and had since died.
I was devastated and very angry, to me it was a simply case of him being very sick, but also very depressed. So on some level I understand being angry at those that give up, but I think its because we see ourselves in that person, and it scares the shit out of us??
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I've been reading this thread but not commented so far, now I feel I need to. My interpertation is that one of the things this poor woman feels is that she is a burden (I think this is possibly one of the things KS was angry/upset about) and I want to say to you all that not one of you is a burden, everyone is valued and valuable. My Dad's health causes all sorts of problems and places huge constraints on what we can do but he is not a burden, he can not help his illnesses - be they physical or mental - and I love him with or without them. Sometimes he will say "oh I am a nuisance" and we always tell him he is not - because it's true, his illness is a nuisance and a burden and he has to bear that burden more than anyone. Sorry, just needed to get that said :twocents; thanks for listening.
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To me these situations are VERY sad but there's one important thing here for me - and that is that these people have made a decision about their lives. For them the quality of life was obviously not worth it to them to continue with dialysis. Now who am I to dispute that or get angry with them about that? I am not them. I have not lived their life and do not feel how they feel. I am one that believes that we each should be able to make the ultimate decision for our own lives (assuming we are mentally sound and making rational decisions). I can certainly understand someone with already serious medical issues, facing Dialysis for the rest of their lives with seemingly no hope of relief to feel that their quality of life would not be worth continuing with. A couple of years ago a woman was in my unit also decided it was not for her and she passed away. Seeing the condition of her life (she was much older, too) I could also understand her decision.
I suppose I am this way because I saw my own mother make the same decision when she faced a catch-22 of medical treatments to prolong her life that killed her at the same time. She decided to go with dignity than be a vegetable on a machine just for the sake of "living" - it was difficult but I totally respected and understood her desires.
Personally I would probably do the same thing if it came to that.
Everyone is different though and it is good that most of us live in societies that allow us to make these types of decisions for ourselves (yes I support euthinasia)
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My Dad's health causes all sorts of problems and places huge constraints on what we can do but he is not a burden, he can not help his illnesses - be they physical or mental - and I love him with or without them. Sometimes he will say "oh I am a nuisance" and we always tell him he is not - because it's true, his illness is a nuisance and a burden and he has to bear that burden more than anyone. Sorry, just needed to get that said :twocents; thanks for listening.
Rose - you literally brought tears to my eyes, your words touched me. Many days I feel the same way as your dad, and I feel so guilty about burdening my family. Your perspective truly helps. I'll remember those words.
(People are looking at me now - I'm at work, sitting here with tears streaming down my face)
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Cheryl I thought long and hard before jumping in, I am glad my thoughts helped, they are genuinely the way I feel (I hope your colleagues understood the tears!).
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But actually I agree with Kickstart on this one. I don't think she's commenting so much on the decision that the woman made - more that she's annoyed at the tone of the article. I too don't think dialysis is the end of all things in my life. I cope really well, live a full and happy life - it's not all bad for all people. I don't in the slightest feel like a burden. My family and I are in this together. I see myself as really lucky actually. I have to go a bit slower, and yes, it's a pain in the bottom sometimes! But an article like that could really scare people.
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I agree with you hanify. Dialysis has not slowed hubby down much. He does the same things that he always did. I am in this totally with him - we work as partners!!! Dialysis is different for a lot of people. In the 12 years hubby has been on dialysis I have seen many people who have not had any quality of life on dialysis and I have also seen many other people who are basically the same as hubby who is coping really well with it. A few people at the in center where hubby used to go just gave up doing dialysis and died. It was sad to see but it was their life and their decision and I think we have to remember that and respect them for their decision. Of course there are times when he gets depressed but I think that can be part of any chronic disease.
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OK good point Hanify... I don't see myself as a burden on anyone except myself... and possibly my cat who has to put up with me when I come home tired and ignore her food bowl when I need a nap (yes, I am bad daddy!).... As far as Dialysis and Kidney Failure go I don't push it on my family or anyone else... I mean the only time it's an issue is if I'm eating with them and I may have to remind a bit about the fluid restrictions, but if we go out I manage my diet/fluid thing myself, and we're eating in I eat appropriately and if they make something with eg lots of cheese, then I just make sure the rest of my day is low in P foods so it evens out... I try not to dictate my requirements on them. Of course my family is also very supportive and understanding of what I need, and if I'm not up to catching up sometimes or whatever and that's good. I see Dialysis as something I do as part of my life and shouldn't really be an issue for others to worry about - I mean they can't really do anything much to help can they? The only thing I want is a general appreciation of the issues involved with it (I mean like being tired and other restrictions).
It's a form of treatment, it's not in any way the end of my life.. but then again I am relatively healthy (apart from the ESRD of course), youngish and able to work and do most things reasonably normally. I understand that obviously other folks are not so fortunate(which is what lead to my earlier musings).
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As you guys may remember, when I was 47 - I was ready not to even start dialysis. Maybe she will change her mind as I did. It is hard to judge because you don't really know what has gone on in her life prior to her dialysis. My take was that I had known about my kidney disease for over 20 years and I had fitted two lives into 47 years and I was very close friends with someone who had a transplant and was not going to go on dialysis when that kidney failed. I suppose I was a bit influenced by him as well. It was a very rational decision for him. He was the richest man in Australia and had every access for assistance you could possibly want but being on dialysis was not the way he wanted to live his life. Hard for me to understand, hard for others to understand, but his CHOICE - and he did exactly as he said he would do.
My take on dialysis now is that it makes me so much more appreciate LIFE. The restrictions of dialysis make every minute I am away from it really precious. Sure, we all have our bad days and our good days but the challenge in my life now it to have more good than bad by researching and studying how to keep my body and mind in the best shape.
I have never been diagnosed with depression but not every day is a sunny day - not for anybody but I totally understand those who have depression and the daunting feeling about not knowing when you will have another bout. I have menieres disease and to me that is far more debilitating than renal failure as you never know when you will have your next attack and how long it will last. Depression I would believe would be far more debilitating than being on dialysis while also being a contributing factor. Dialysis to a degree you can control far better than depression and there should be a very great degree of understanding for anyone who is clinically depressed. They can no more control what is chemically imbalanced in their brain than I can control the vomiting and vertigo in my ears when I am having a menieres attack. Go a little less hard on those who are struck down by depression.
Also, a point to remember is that you don't have to be depressed to consider not starting or continuing with dialysis. It is a choice and your choice.
I know I haven't been around for a while with issues of my own - broken bones etc - but it made me a bit sad reading this post. Differing opinions are OK but not a lot of support to be found here. :grouphug;