I cant believe what ive just read !

[dwcrawford]

I didn't say several things...  I said two things.  I just read some of your political comments.  Believe it or not, I agree with many of them.  I'm a liberal democrat who voted for John McCain because I felt Obama was fiscally irresponsible (and I believe he has been).  But our social attitudes are far divided I suspect.

I'm sorry you can't understand being afraid when learning you'll spend the rest of your life on dialysis and how to handle it.  Your life is about YOU as mine is about ME, PK.

I know absolutely nothing about you and I'm sure you have no idea who I am.  It is hard to know the people you care about online much less those who just come down on your when the get a chance.

[paris]

Okarol has reminded us to play nice.  Everyone take a deep breath.    Back to the article, I have known two teenagers (without any deadly diseases) who committed suicide.  I had a friend in St.Louis call me in N.C. saying he had a fifth of whiskey and a gun and was sitting out in a cornfield.  Depression is overwhelming and debilitating.  When you can't see any light because you are in such a dark hole, leaving everything seems like the only solution.  On the other hand, organ failure can bring on it's own depression.  I think we are all in some degree of pain and depression.  Some days are worse than others.   I think I can understand not wanting to burdon family for years with bills and caretaking.  Those who deal with these huge issues on their own, have my deepest respect. It must be overwhelming.      As I go through different threads, I can almost tell who is dealing with huge decisions or problems when they are posting.  We are in similar boats; some with power motors, others with oars, and some just drifting in circles.   I love you all.   

[cherpep]

Kickstart - I can understand how reading that would upset you.  One thing that I've learned from this disease is how strong I am.  I didn't know I had all this strength until I had to use it.  I'm actually proud of myself for being this strong.  There are days when it's difficult to find that strength, but I don't beat myself up, I just get through the day.  You are a strong person.  You should be proud of yourself. 

I am sad for that person who has given up - she wasn't strong, she couldn't fight the fight.

[sutphendriver]

Sounds to me like self pity is going to kill her.  I have felt sorry for myself in the past until I realize it and snap myself out of it.  Personally I believe the majority of depressed people just need a convinient excuse to wallow in self pity and mind altering medications, but i've only been in the kidney failure game for 13 years so mabey it hasn't had time to hit me yet.  I have witnessed true depression when my sister lost her son at a young age, so I know it is very real.   Someone in her group of "supporters" needs give her a swift kick in the a$$, and put her back in the real world.

[KICKSTART]

I wasnt going to come back to this thread (for reasons i shall not say) but its seems i have left a couple of important points out . Firstly she is British , so no costs involved! Secondly she had to undergo numerous examinations to prove she wasnt depressed and of sound mind , everyone has been presuming she is depressed ( sorry ) My post was not a judgement one way or another , i just suprised myself that i felt angry at reading the story. Most of the time dialysis is underplayed , treated like a cold , but the way this woman portrayed it , it was worse than a living hell. If i was newly diagnosed that article would have had me wanting to commit suicide if i thought for one minute that was to be my life with kidney failure. Its not often i knock any press/publicity about kidney failure , but that article was very one sided and made our lives seem hopeless.

[Jess21]

Everyone has their own opinions..on everything.  Everyone has a right to their own opinion, whether or not you personally think it's "right", well that's your own opinion.  It's one big circle.
Dialysis is a way you can deal with renal failure.  So is a transplant.  So is death.  It's a person's decision on which way to deal with it.  While it is sad to see people choose death over dialysis, well, sometimes people feel dialysis is an ultimate death.

Everybody....we are all in this renal row boat together...do we need to be hiting eachother with the oars as we go down the river?
 
If so, I want Kit and her stick on my team!  I hear she hits hard! 

[dwcrawford]

I do understand what you  are saying and I'm sorry I misinterrup;ed you in the beginning.  I had feelings like what am I doing if you can't expect to live a full life anyway and about articles that say if you are over 60 then you'll die waiting for a kidney and those that talk only about transplant saying that dialysis is no kind of life.  But then we don't know the personal story of the woman who made that decision.  All I was saying on this subject is that we can't make that decision for her just as people couldn't make it for me initially.  My main issue is with the Depression comments.  Just as people need to undderstand kidney issues before making stupid comments (remember the thread "ignormant  things people have said, people should understand depressions before making such blankets comments.

Sutphendiver: Believe me depression is not self pity.  There are times when I find it totally impossible to change a light bulb, and other times when I'm up beat that I'm upset because I can't run around the block (just old legs won't work).  And it had nothing to do with kidney disease. 

[LightLizard]

i'm 60. recently, because of this nasty lung infection,(and severe constipation because of the antibiotics i'm on) i had my bout with depression and a loss of hope after seeing my transplant team a few weeks ago, who told me that i will not be eligible for a transplant until my cardiologist fixes my heart. he won't fix it until i am in 'crisis.' he says. so, basically, i am pretty much screwed. i emailed my dialysis team and told them that i now understand why people become terrorists. i also told them i understand now, why previously quiet men go crazy and start killing people around them. i do understand. that doesn't mean i'm headed that way, by any means, but it sure got a rise out of my dialysis team.
sometimes, depression can lead to fun.
 

[Hanify]

I agree with Dan in that depression is one of those things that is really hard to understand if you haven't had it.  From the outside it seems as if you should just 'give them a kick' but when you're the one who feels like they're in a tunnel with no light at the end it's definitely not that easy.  I'm sorry people have got upset with each other, but try to understand that the reason for the upset is having such deep feelings about the subject.  You cannot know how you would respond to a deep depression.  Do not assume you could just pull yourself out of it.  Saying that makes others who have had depression feel that you are saying they should have 'just' pulled themselves out of it.  Can you see that?  There's no'just' about depression.

[LightLizard]

Kickstart - I can understand how reading that would upset you.  One thing that I've learned from this disease is how strong I am.  I didn't know I had all this strength until I had to use it.  I'm actually proud of myself for being this strong.  There are days when it's difficult to find that strength, but I don't beat myself up, I just get through the day.  You are a strong person.  You should be proud of yourself. 

I am sad for that person who has given up - she wasn't strong, she couldn't fight the fight.

 

[LightLizard]

no one can say that their depression is worse than anyone elses'. that is just not reasonable.
it is a sad thing that someone would choose to let themselves die rather than accept a life on dialysis. but, it's only sad for us who have considered the same thing. it's too close to home to be able to observe such a scenario objectively. i have neen depressed and close to ending my life more than once since i began dialysis. what keeps me going in those dark times is the people around me who give me hope, no matter how small and nebulous, hope is hope. we can live days without food or drink, a few weeks without dialysis, maybe, minutes without air, but hope, we can't live one second without it.
may you all find cause for hope. ALL of you! ( dcrawford included. )
and thank you, those of you, who have given me hope. thank you so much!

love

LL

[dwcrawford]

You you can remeember what it was like being depressed then try and imagine what it would be like if you never knew when it was going to happen again and that, it will still come even though you fight with every ounce of your being to prevent it.

By the way, my only medication  is prosac which was prescriped when I first found out about kidney and after I had decided not to do dialysis.  It is prescribed for many people with depressive illnesses like kidney failure. 

Also, depression does not indicate any lacked of sanity (we know we are depressed), of lack of intelligence or reasoning.  I  am a little crazy, but definitly now plain nuts.

[twirl]

I have thought about giving up and letting go -
I'd last about 2 -3 weeks
but I decided for now to go on --- at least for now --
I am depressed but I have reasons to go on
a friend at dialysis did decided to stop dialysis --
he is now gone at 83 or 85
I think we are entitled to make our own decisions about continuing or quitting dialysis
no one really knows how anyone feels about their decisions
I am on alot of prozac and I think it has stopped helping me

[LightLizard]

well, not to be critical, but i feel that to take medication for depression is a double-edged sword. you will end up cutting yourself, sooner or later.

[dwcrawford]

I have never tried to compare my depression or my kidney disease with anyones.  I've said many many time how much better I have things than most people do.  I have 3 of the best friends that anyone who hope for, I had nephrologist who genuinglly care about me and an intenal doctoer that I truly love (who found all the good nephs for me), dialysis staff comparable to none I can imagine, i have enough money to live comfortable for the rest of my life and good insurance,  my house is paid for and my taxes are frozen.

As for depression, I've experienced it in others far greater than mine.  After three or four days I can change light bulbs and put on clean clothes.  How could I possibly be depressed.  I wish I knew.  I even wish you could tell me, or at least tell the therapist so that she can pass it on to me.

[dwcrawford]

twirl, I take 40 mg.  he wanted to up it after I'd tried it for a month but I said no.  I intend to get off as soon as they get through torturing my fistula.  Maybe I am just as unpopular at the center as I  am here as on Monday, three different nurses were fighting over who gets to start sticking me tomorrow (they were the three that I has asked for however but I don't want to make any of them made because this is Texas and Lufkin isn't far and I think I saw a bottle of bleach.

[KICKSTART]

The topic seems to have gone back to depression somehow which isnt originally what i wrote about , but i will add my two'penny worth anyhow. Everone thinks of depression as a 'mood' be it a black one or an uncontrollable one ,but not a good place to be. I to have had a bout of it , now normally you can throw anything at me and i bounce back with something positive eventually. So i sat and talked to one of the renal doctors about it , saying this is not me , i never get depressed etc etc and she gave me an answer that was one of the best explainations about it , now its up to you if want to believe it possible, but to me it seemed very logical. She said depression is extremely common in dialysis patients as its caused by the imbalance of chemicals in the brain , thus producing depression. Which to be honest makes sense to me as most of the things in our bodies are governed by our kidneys , taking anti depressants is nothing to be ashamed of as these help retore that balance .

[kimcanada]

The topic seems to have gone back to depression somehow which isnt originally what i wrote about , but i will add my two'penny worth anyhow. Everone thinks of depression as a 'mood' be it a black one or an uncontrollable one ,but not a good place to be. I to have had a bout of it , now normally you can throw anything at me and i bounce back with something positive eventually. So i sat and talked to one of the renal doctors about it , saying this is not me , i never get depressed etc etc and she gave me an answer that was one of the best explainations about it , now its up to you if want to believe it possible, but to me it seemed very logical. She said depression is extremely common in dialysis patients as its caused by the imbalance of chemicals in the brain , thus producing depression. Which to be honest makes sense to me as most of the things in our bodies are governed by our kidneys , taking anti depressants is nothing to be ashamed of as these help retore that balance .

well said    I agree totally

[dwcrawford]

I think she is totally correct.  Though I'll have to repeat that depression for some of us was here long before dialysis (which obvious exacerbates it).  And perhaps the anti depressants do something to keep those chemicals in balance?

And kickstart,  I doubt if we have as many contradictory areas as it seemed intimately.   Looks like we may agree with more than we disagree on.

[Jess21]

And kickstart,  I doubt if we have as many contradictory areas as it seemed intimately.   Looks like we may agree with more than we disagree on.

[LightLizard]

yes, well my take on depression, and i'll shut up about it after this, is that to deal with it chemically is an option that some people simply must give in to. i have experienced depression, believe me, but i refuse to treat it chemically, simply because of the disasters i have seen so many people come to who do choose the chemical route. eventually, prozac actually causes the depression to worsen.
i believe that there are a few tools we can use to ward off the occasional bout of depression. one; a sense of humor is vital. two; breathing exercises are also vital. deep, belly breathing for at least 10 minutes a day. three; friends and/or family that give you hope and accept you for who you are.

luck, hope and love to all.

LL

[dwcrawford]

and I believe Okarol comments on name calling was meanst not only for this thread but for others.  I hear some people are going balistic in other threads about me.

I wouldn't use Tom Cruise for a doctor either.

[Sunny]

I am sorry to hear about this lady who at the age of 47 is ready to give up.
Since I didn't read the article, it's difficult to say what kind of extenuating circumstances in her life led her to choose this outcome. Since we can't walk a mile in somebody else's shoes, we will never know. I am prepared to accept and respect her decision, though.
As long as she's been evaluated for depression. As for anti-depressants. I have taken them on occasion to get me through the VERY bad times. I hate taking them because I always get side effects. Everyone handles life issues differently and here, on this message board, we need the freedom to express ourselves. I always learn something from other people's points of fews, so let's foster opinions rather than make fun of them.

[jbeany]

Kickstart, I think your anger is an interesting reaction - what part made you angry?  Were you mad at her describing herself as a burden?  Or mad that she chose to quit trying?  It can't be the first article you've ever read where someone describes living on dialysis as "hell on earth".  Okarol must post at least one of those a week in the News section.  So why did this one strike such a chord for you? 

[KICKSTART]

jbeany I was suprised that my reaction was one of anger , i dont think it was related to the woman directly , more her attitude. She seemed to think that as soon as someone had kidney failure they were useless , a burden. It was very one sided , what about all the people who still go on to do things even with kidney failure , that still have at least some quality of life ( i know its not always brilliant) The article just came across to me as .. i have kidney failure , im useless now so i might as well die. I dont usually read this sort of article. I just think it put across a lot of negatives and like i said before would terrify someone just being diagnosed.