I cant believe what ive just read !

[KICKSTART]

Ive been to the hospital today for IV iron , so picked up a magazine to read while i was there and in it was an article on a woman who has chosen to die!!!. She was only 47 and decided to quit dialysis as for other health reasons she wouldnt get a transplant. Now i dont know why but it stirred up a lot of mixed emotions in me and i was suprised that i felt angry! I know everyone has the right to choose but maybe it was how the article was written , i really dont know. We all know what kidney failure is like , some of us know about dialysis and none of it is easy or fun. But this woman wrote about it like it was hell on earth , the tiredness, the vomiting ,the being a total burden to everyone (and she had loads of support from a loving family as well) but she still couldnt cope. I think thats what made me angry ..how on earth does she think that people who are on their own cope ? I would hate to think i was a burden but surely we are not ? and although its not nice , surely its not a living hell either ? Yes we would all love to wake up healthy but i still think even though we are not, we still have some quality of life dont we?  I think it was just the way it was written possibly that shocked me .

[LightLizard]

yeah, some people just can't handle the disappointment that comes with learning your kidneys are finished. it's like the depression issue. i have met people who have no health problems at all, but they 'must' take anti-depressants or they get so down that suicide becomes a serious concern.
i'd like to just shake these people around, maybe slap them a bit, wake them up to the fact that if you have your health, you have no reason to be depressed.
my dialysis team has, from time to time, shown concern for me when my mood shifts to the darker side.
but i refuse to take anti depressants. why shouldn't we get depressed from time to time? it's a natural process, especially for people in our position. like, we're supposed to be positive, happy, smiling, loving saints all of the time? *sheesh*

[kitkatz]

Losing your kidneys is a lot like getting an amputation. A major part of the body is gone. Grief process hits and you have to deal with lot of stuff all at once!

[dwcrawford]

Lizard:
Your post makes me really angry.  As lots of people don't understand kidney disease, you've made it apparent that you don't have the  slightest conception of depression.  I'd  like  to see you try and SHAKE me while I'm in a low.  You have shown the ultimate of  insensitive.  I've seen lots of it in here, but your post takes the cake.  You really make me angry.  There may be others in here who suffer from depresssion.  I hope you hear from then all.

Kickstart ( who yells her name in each post -- see capitalization rules.)
As for not doing dialysis, that is totally up to the individual to choose to live or die and you have no right to judge.  It is worse on some than others, some have little support through it.  Most of us DON'T however write one Negative post after another.  Many people internalize it while others do outwardly the "poor me" routine.  Your post made me angry too and opened up a dialogue I'd like to see carred forward with more enlightened people.

[LightLizard]

well, you have the appropriate avatar, dwcrawford. 

[dwcrawford]

Even through depression and kidney failure, I still have a sense of humor.

[The Wife]

The problem with expressing a view is that someone else takes it personally.

I understand what LL is saying.  Someone in depression, though it is difficult, can work at getting out of depression while someone with failed kidneys can't. 

Peace.

[dwcrawford]

You do not understand either.  Someone who is depressed can get out of it.  Someone in a clinical depression cannot get out of it alone.  Read.  Of course as a WIFE of someone wih kidney problems and able bodied yourself, you don't really have a point of reference do you?  Please note too that I did address each issue seperately and did not compare to say one is worse than the other.  But then again, some of us have both.

[LightLizard]

Even through depression and kidney failure, I still have a sense of humor.

i have yet to see evidence of a sense of humor from you. but that's understandable if you're depressed.
to clarify, i was talking about people WHO HAVE NO PHYSICAL HEALTH PROBLEMS who take anti-depressants because of emotional problems. like a friend of mine who was unhappy in his marriage so he got his doc to prescribe anti-depressants, he beame addicted to them and years later developed a heart problem because of the meds and had to have a triple bypass to save his life.

i have not been on this board for months because of how some people react to me expressing my views.
you need some psychiatric assistans crawford, but i won't be back here anytime soon as long as someone like you is here. some 'support group.' *sheesh*

[kimcanada]

WOW, this wasn't about depression, this was about someone feeling so low that at 47 they decided dying is easier then living.

Beating up on each other doesn't really help now does it... Everyones experience with kidney disease is different, some have many people helping them, some have none...

Some have lots of money to live on while doing dialysis and unable to work, some have barely enough to eat... belittling others experience is terrible,  shame shame

[greco02]

Please everyone...step back a moment.  It makes me sad that (for now) my husband is leaning toward no treatment for his stage 4 kidney disease. However it is his decision.  I have seen this man through 2 brain surgery's, 2 hand surgery's , one shoulder surgery and 2 knee replacements.  Currently he feels like hell and all the doctors seem to do is prescibe another pill.  He is up to his eyeballs in pain, medication and depression.   He takes enough antidepressants to put almost anyone under the table.   He has lots of family support but none of it takes away the pain, and certainly doesn't help the horrible depression.  If you can deal with it that is wonderful.  I appreciate your outlook and the fact that you feel like 'shaking' the lady who has decided to let God (or mother nature or whatever you call it in your world) take over and stop the inevitable.   

Opinions are just that, and everyone is entitled to have one...just don't preach to me.  I love my husband but the pain he is going through will not improve with dialysis.   It might with a transplant but from what I hear on this site and from his nephrologist....he will not do well on dialysis.   

We have seen similar posts about patients refusing treatment and I agree with Crawford, it's their choice and I think we have to respect each persons decision.   PLEASE!

[dwcrawford]

FYI: I had counseling and meds long before  kidney diseasee.  People should not make blanket statement with not knowledge of the subject.  And I have the same rights to speak up for myself as the rest of you do.  If Admin wants to kick me out, fine.
Just as kidney disease varies from person to person, so does depression.  I don't appreciated being put in the category of getting  shaken or slapped based on you friends domestic problems.  Mine started at 25, though I owe you no explaination, with the suicide of my sister whom I love deeply.  No one in the family has ever gotten over  it even with an enormous amount of Psychiatric help.
I hope if all your comments at this "sensitive" that you might think about how they sound in the future.

Kim:  Lizard made it about depression.  Not I.  As I stated, everyone experience kidney failure in a different way.  My main point is that noone has the right to judge.  Helping:  I have a couple of good friends and a fantastic team of  doctors and nurses.  Money:  I have plenty and don't have to work.  But what can I do  with it?  Really limited as to how to enjoy it now.  And no,  I am not contemplating suicide.  Just understand why someone could or would.

[kimcanada]

never assume that I don't understand that

[KICKSTART]

RIGHT dwcrawford firstly let me say i dont shout my name, it has been in CAPITOLS from day one buddy and NO ONE  has ever objected. Secondly i will back up LL in saying that the atmosphere of this 'support group' is begining to change (and i have been here for a long time) You seem to like to attack the very people that you have most in common with for some reason ?
The post i wrote was not to judge one way or another , it was to say i was suprised to find this woman had given up so easily and chosen to die and i was asking ..are we a burden ? is that how we are viewed? is this a living hell? and i was suprised at how angry i felt about it because at the end of the day its not all bad.
Also if you feel i write ONE NEGATIVE POST AFTER ANOTHER THEN 'DONT' READ THEM ! 

[dwcrawford]

Personally, I find it easier to deal with dialysis than  I do with going into a deep depression ever few weeks.  Of course, I'm not nearly in as bad a shape as most of the other 3 or 4 hundered people in my center and I have excellent uplifting nurses, tech, staff, doctors and friends.


Kickstart (know its always been in alll caps.  what kind of ego does that show?)  And if you only knew how many peope have vowed to not ready your post.  I just wanted to know  what  your were bitching about this time.  Usually I don't read anything with your capitalized name in it and would not have responded to this had "depression" not been approached so negatively.  Usually  I try and be positive but there are somethings just too far out.


And from my perspective it is not a living hell (just a few hours of purgatory) and as being a burden,  I hope not but I suppose we could be if we chose to be.

[LightLizard]

you say 'no one has a right to judge' and then you proceed to judge everyone. what a damn hypocrite. you are worse than 'depressed' dude.
you're plain nuts.
i'm gone, so save your smart ass B/S for someone that cares.

[dwcrawford]

Have you not facts or arguments to back up your assertions or do you intend to rest your case my being Plain Nuts. 

[KICKSTART]

DWCRAWFORD  you seem to have turned this into your own personal battleground for attacking other members . EGO EGO im anything but egotistical as plenty of other members will know. Also i would love to know how you know, how many others have vowed not to read my posts ? Have you received lots of pm's telling you ? And as for bitching ..well the only thing i have to bitch about is your attitude. I wont bother to continue reading your replies im like LL i CBA with you.

[dwcrawford]

Have you received lots of pm's telling you ?   Ans:  Yes, a few and several discussions in Chats.

And note:  I didn't attach you people personlly.  Just your ideas.  As far as Plain Nuts, there's not a lot about me that is PLAIN.  Crazy enough to put and end to this?  You bet.

[breezysummerday]

You do not understand either.  Someone who is depressed can get out of it.  Someone in a clinical depression cannot get out of it alone.  Read.  Of course as a WIFE of someone wih kidney problems and able bodied yourself, you don't really have a point of reference do you? 

 

[okarol]

TO ALL MEMBERS:

Express your opinions and remarks about the subject of the thread.
Refrain from personal attacks and name calling.
This is a warning -- anyone who continues to make these attacks will get a 30 day ban.

okarol/admin

[dwcrawford]

    

[paul.karen]

Wow

Dw chill out.  I read LL posts in a different light then you did to say the least.

I always see you post how people misunderstand what you wre trying to say.
Maybe you are reading more into this then need be.

On top of that you are starting to isolate people which in a setting like this is a very BAD thing to do.  i understand a few if not many dont like me.  merely for my political stance.  So we dont talk politics with each other.  If anyone hates me for mor ethen that so be it.

But for someone to talk trash behind my back makes them look scared and foolish IMO.  If you cant say it to someones face why say it at all.

I understood Kickstarts post.  I understood LL's post and every other post on this thread. 
Im not sure where your coming from.  If we cant have opinions and be different why are we here.

Will you now go talk behind my back about what an AS$hole i am.  I have no beef with you but i also dont pity you.  When you first came here you were more scared then a little school girl.  Now your calling people out?? I dont get it???
No one said anything about you.  Yet it is now about you??

[dwcrawford]

I don't know your politics.  I doubt you know mine but as you probably suspect, I am a liberal democrat.  I remember a couple of unkind things you said to me when I first came here.  Yes, I was scared when I first came here.  I had just been told about my kidneys and dialysis and I was ready to just do what the lady in the first post of thinking of.  At the time I was all alone in this.  Though I've fought some issuees, I'm am thankful to have run into some very positive and inspirational people

I resent your comment on as "a little school grils" but it isn't as bad as the things you said to me when I was new.  Those things,  and not your politics are the reason I've purposely avoiod you.

I only comment on ideas and concepts.  You have no need to pity me.  I try and make that clear daily.  I am fine in everyway except I still get bored in dialysis.

[paul.karen]

I never said anything negative towards you let alone several things..  Show me where i did i would like to see it.
The school girl thing was a metaphor and i care less about anyones political persuasion.  That was in reference to me not you.  But again you can make it about you DW.