are catholics Christians ???

[Hephs-little-lady]

All Catholics are Christians but not all Christians are Catholics.

Not necessarily, some people just have the label Catholic or Christian because that is what their parents, grandparents etc were. It doesn't mean they are! We all have to make our own decisions and choose our own path.

As I said in my earlier post, many people believe they are Christian because they were born into a Christian nation or family, the same can be said of Catholics.

I believe it is about a relationship with God, it's active, a state of heart.

[hephziba]

Bigsky,

You bet they weren't, as I said " read the words of Messiah He never said to Kill anyone, in fact those who were downtrodden are to be lifted up by His followers.

Satan was a murderer from the beginning and does not obey the truth, those men who murdered and slaughtered were sons of there father the devil.

 No they certainly were not true Christians, remember the KKK call themselves true Christians, and spent a lot of time hanging African Americans,burning down there houses and churches, there are people who call themselves Christians and have websites like God hates fags(gay people). If Christ truly lives in your heart you have deep love toward people. not thoughts of murder.

all of these people are no more true Christians, in relationship with the living Christ than a satanist is.

so no they were not true Christians. yes many terrible things have been done in the name of Christ to discredit His name.

Christians never killed the American Indians or the Aborigines or anyone else for that matter it just so happened that from the Victorian era it was very acceptable to be called a Christian. Just a label, Tony Blair and His wife go to church on sundays and sit in those religious wooden pews and sing songs, does that make either of them Christians, I don't think so. it was just a label they wore.

read about true Christians throughout History and you will see they were life givers.

William Wilberforce the abolishion of slavery. http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/REwilberforce.htm
Lord shaftesbury a servant to the poor. http://www.infed.org/walking/wa-shaft.htm
George mueller. opened childrens homes. http://www.wholesomewords.org/biography/biorpmueller.html
Mr Guiness. http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/4752.htm
mother teresa http://www.gargaro.com/mother_teresa/. proved by her life that she truly new Christ Jesus.

modern day.

Heidi baker http://www.irismin.org/p/home.php

Ps, you won't find that kill the body to save the souls bs In the bible. only people who twist the scriptures could use the bible to justify killing men women and children.

 

why God didn't stop his followers from killing in his name.  That alone opens up a huge can of worms though.

God doesn't have to stop His followers from killing in His name because His followers wouldn't kill in His name anyone who truly knows Him would love. so the can of worms remains wormless.

 You can't class all Christians with the murderers you speak of, any more than we can blame all Catholics for all the bloodshed in the history of the Catholic church.

 

[Mom3]

Against my better judgment I am going to wade in here one last time, knowing it is not smart to argue with people about politics or religion!!

INTERPRETATION is everything when it comes to Scripture. All Scriptures.

I was in a meeting with a local Imam once and that same question was asked about that same passage of the Koran. He explained it that the statement was made in the context of a war, where the common practice among people was slaughter of the vanquished. In giving the option to convert, mercy was being extended. That was HIS interpretation. He was adamant that it did not mean people should go around killing people who were not Moslems!

Human beings have been burned alive because of the "Suffer not a witch to live.." statement in the Judeo-Christian Bible. Hopefully most modern Christians in my neighborhood are not on the look out for "witches" to murder...

Daniel Berrigan and Opus Dei enthusiasts are Catholic, but they hardly hold the same values...must be a matter of INTERPRETATION!!

I do think it might be a good idea to consider when we post that someone might read our arguments on line and feel there would be no place for them in this community. I assume no Moslems are yet part of this list serve or I wouldn't be the one posting this...I find it reassuring that there is diversity among us, and there is even more potential diversity out there in the renal community. A little "do unto others", some thinking about how would I have felt if that was said about my religion? etc.

Mom 3

[BigSky]

hephziba

 Jesus said to follow the old testament laws.  You know, that front section that is the first half of the Christian Bible.  The one with all the stoning people and killing for this or that bs.  So those of yesteryear that did that stuff were indeed Christians.  Indeed the majority of Christians still regard the OT and relevent.

Christians never killed the American Indians or the Aborigines or anyone else for that matter it just so happened that from the Victorian era it was very acceptable to be called a Christian. Just a label, Tony Blair and His wife go to church on sundays and sit in those religious wooden pews and sing songs, does that make either of them Christians, I don't think so. it was just a label they wore.

Try again.  History proves you wrong.  It came down directly from the Church itself that the murder of Indians when Europeons came to the new world was ok.  It was done to "save their soul".  As to kill the body to save the soul it came from the head of the Church itself.

God doesn't have to stop His followers from killing in His name because His followers wouldn't kill in His name anyone who truly knows Him would love. so the can of worms remains wormless.

 You can't class all Christians with the murderers you speak of, any more than we can blame all Catholics for all the bloodshed in the history of the Catholic church.

   

Well if you want to open that can.

Yes he does.  It was done because people read the bible.  Therefore there is responsibility to keep those followers, even those that you feel are misguided, from taking wrongful actions in his name.  You have to take the good with the bad and you do not get to handpick.  Funny how you think only those that Christians that do good are Christian and those Christians that do bad are not actually real Christians at all but have no real relationship with Christ.  If that is the qualifier to be a Christian or not then all that sin bs wouldn't be needed then would it.   

I never did class all Christians as murderers or blame all Catholics for the bloodshed or suggest that all did it.   See there is no need for me to talk in parables.   

But very interesting you jumped to that conclusion all on your own.  Hmmm

[Bajanne]

Try again.  History proves you wrong.  It came down directly from the Church itself that the murder of Indians when Europeons came to the new world was ok.  It was done to "save their soul".  As to kill the body to save the soul it came from the head of the Church itself.

I never did class all Christians as murderers or blame all Catholics for the bloodshed or suggest that all did it.   See there is no need for me to talk in parables.   

But very interesting you jumped to that conclusion all on your own.  Hmmm

Here is where we have a lexical problem.  You see, I don't count everything that you do as 'the Church'.  What many people call 'the Church' is not 'the Church'.  And by the way, the Head of the Church is the living Jesus Christ.  Please do not give His position to imposters.  The Bible tells us that many will come and say they are Christ.  And here is the proof.  Jesus Christ, who allowed Himself to die and forgave those who killed Him would never give the word to perpetuate genocide.  Never.
The Bible itself said that apostacy would occur, and the above is a glaring example.
The so-called 'church' went through some awful DARK ages.  Thank God for John Hus, Martin Luther, Calvin, and some true children of God who were part of the same apostate church, like Pascal and Father Lawrence.

[angieskidney]

All Catholics are Christians but not all Christians are Catholics.

Not necessarily, some people just have the label Catholic or Christian because that is what their parents, grandparents etc were. It doesn't mean they are! We all have to make our own decisions and choose our own path.

As I said in my earlier post, many people believe they are Christian because they were born into a Christian nation or family, the same can be said of Catholics.

I believe it is about a relationship with God, it's active, a state of heart.

Well Catholics go through what is called Confirmation where we say if we believe in God and want to follow the Catholic faith or leave it. So yes, I would say .. Catholics choose their faith and it is not fully based on how they were raised.

[Rerun]

Angie, tell that to any born again Christian Pastor or Minister and see what he says.  And after he is done you may still turn it around to be the same.  It is not. 

But, again, I tell Mormons what I believe and every time they tell me that they believe that too.

"I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God"  They believe that too.

My response "If you are a Christian then I guess I'm a Mormon". 

And maybe the difference is "Christian" vs. "Born Again Christian"

[angieskidney]

Angie, tell that to any born again Christian Pastor or Minister and see what he says.  And after he is done you may still turn it around to be the same.  It is not. 

But, again, I tell Mormons what I believe and every time they tell me that they believe that too.

"I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God"  They believe that too.

My response "If you are a Christian then I guess I'm a Mormon". 

And maybe the difference is "Christian" vs. "Born Again Christian"

*sweat drop* .. uh I was only talking about Catholics who aren't "just Catholic because they were born and raised that way" .... I wasn't talking about all Christians... other religions have their own stuff which I know nothing about and have never claimed to.

I checked out this story on www.snopes.com and the story is false.  Go check it out for yourself.  You just type something in the search like "Rick Mathes and Muslims".

. . . the Volunteer Coordinator at the prison said that no such exchange as the editorial reported ever took place. "He certainly did not 'Hang his head in shame'," according to Kniest. In fact, the inmate was thanked by the assembly before being escorted back to his quarters. Furthermore, the coordinator does not recall any questions dealing with jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world as reported in the editorial.

In the editorial the inmate is presented as an Imam, or Islamic minister, which he clearly was not.

The information is no doubt true, but the story as how it happend is just sensationalism.

Someone posted this in the D&T City if you want to check it out it is a muslim who says about their faith.  And if it was deleted .. this part I will quote from it:

http://www.jesusthemuslim.com/


Jesus is not accepted as `the Son of God'
 
listen to
 first part: www.ebnmaryam.com/audio/Didat26A.asx
  second part: www.ebnmaryam.com/audio/Didat26B.asx
moor Audio & Video