talk me out of killing him

[The Wife]

Thanks for all the advice, guys!  I especially liked Boxman's idea of "shooting the bastard in the knees," but I think I'd aim a little bit higher -- OUCH !!

I'm usually a very, very outspoken person.  Marvin always tells me to watch my tongue -- my words and tone can be quite vicious when I want them to.  I'm known far and wide for not being able to keep my mouth shut.  When angered, I can also get very loud and very demanding -- Marvin says don't argue with me when I'm mad either because I'm relentless and will turn your own words around and use them against you.


I told Marvin that I wanted to hurt his nurse, and Marvin said, "He'll whip your ass."  Hey, I'm a  *ahem*  healthy girl (real big bones on this 5'5" frame, you know).  I'm strong.  I'm mean.  I'm fearless.  Marvin repeated, "He'll whip your ass."  (Marvin's nurse is an ex-Marine and an ex-cop -- his arms, neck, and chest are thick and pure meat -- pure meat, I tell you.)  I told Marvin I could give that nurse a slap to the face, a claw to the eyes, a kick to the groin.  Marvin said, "He'll still whip your ass."  I'd get my dog Hop-Sing to bite him, but Hop-Sing is shy and has never bitten or even growled at anyone (unless you count that cat at the vet's office).  Maybe by tomorrow I can teach Hop-Sing to pee on the nurse's leg.

NEVER under-estimate the power of a woman, especially an angry one and one who is protecting a loved one!  Petey, I think it's a good idea that you can vent here before the nurse comes over.

[Slywalker]

Petey - you go girl!!!

Seriously - I have had at least two doctors not acknowledge serious mistakes they did to me - surgical errors actually.  One I have not dealt with yet because I'm still in an angry rage - the other one I did deal with one on one and I got him to acknowledge not only did he make a mistake but he didn't actually listen at all to his patient (me).  And he made some kind of promise about improving his listening skills.  I hope he did follow through with that.

I think you should talk to the nurse but use the notes in your email so you can state things as fact and try not to use too much emotion - because then you will probably kill him.  With any dialysis patient the little things should be listened to immediately.  That, my dear, was taught to me by my dialysis nurse.  She would not only call me regularly but also emailed if there was any tiny little thing I brought up.  so give it a try - he has to know what the consequences were of his advice.  Perhaps he'll actually listen to you and learn something.  Fingers crossed.

Let us know how it turned out.

Sandyb

[Sluff]

No matter his experience he still just another man. Go for the knees it's the weakest point of contact and only requires 14 lbs of force to snap it sideways from the inside out. I am not endorsing anything but just in case you need to defend yourself. 

[okarol]

Justifiable homicide. 

[kitkatz]

Do you want to borrow the big stick??

[rose1999]

No matter his experience he still just another man. Go for the knees it's the weakest point of contact and only requires 14 lbs of force to snap it sideways from the inside out. I am not endorsing anything but just in case you need to defend yourself. 

I think there's another weak point on a man that you can go for Petey - and you can always innocently say your knee slipped 

[Psim]

Maybe by tomorrow I can teach Hop-Sing to pee on the nurse's leg.

Good idea! Reading this thread, I'm alternately snarling and laughing. If you don't knee-cap the guy, I will! I know, I know, I'll have to stand in line for the privilege and the line up of wannabee knee-cappers already stretches around the block.

[stauffenberg]

That nurse should have realized that 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit is the MAXIMUM level of normal body temperature, not an average temperature such that small variations above that level could be regarded as harmless.  At the center where I was dialyzed, any elevation of patient temperature was always taken very seriously.  This is especially true when the patient has implanted medical devices, since infection easily develops on the immunologically defenseless surfaces of these devices.

The news media like to generate scare headlines to sell more newspapers or more ads on television by pretending that the 'superbugs,' MRSA and VRE, as terrifying and deadly infections, even though they are often quite harmless, even though they can be difficult to extinguish.  I had VRE and MRSA for a few months and noticed absolutely no symptoms from it, not even a fever, and it was diagnosed only by blood tests.  Only in patients already severely weakened from other diseases are these infections dangerous.

[petey]

The news media like to generate scare headlines to sell more newspapers or more ads on television by pretending that the 'superbugs,' MRSA and VRE, as terrifying and deadly infections, even though they are often quite harmless, even though they can be difficult to extinguish.

Boy, we sure wish that Marvin fit into that "often quite harmless" category of MRSA.  The fact is, in Marvin's case, MRSA permanently damaged his perfectly healthy heart, requiring a pace maker (and they haven't ruled out valve replacement).  Since December 3, he spent 41 days in the hospital and 15 of those days in either Cardiac ICU or CardioThorasic ICU.  Add to that that he's had a small "chunk" of tissue/nerves/etc. removed from his arm (MRSA) and a pretty big "chunk" removed from his abdomen (hematoma with MRSA).  We had several doctors tell us he was lucky to have survived the MRSA.

I say MRSA is potentially quite deadly and most definitely terrifying.  Or, that has been our experience.  And, the bad part is, the doctors said there could still be more MRSA lurking around in Marvin's body even now.  After all we've been through, that last thought definitely scares the shit out of me.
   

[willieandwinnie]

petey, what happened with your royal highness the nurse. Can't wait to hear about it. 

stauffenberg, my husband had MRSA and it went into sepsis and he died on me a couple of times. Only the wonderful trauma surgeon that took over his gave and the potent antibiotics he received saved him. I also have a girlfriend who's husband just past away from hospital acquired MRSA that wasn't detected soon enough. He was in the hospital for minor cosmetic surgery. I believe the medical community doesn't want the public to know that it has become a very serious issue. Just my 

[petey]

Bottom line...I let the bastard live, and despite Marvin's concerns, I didn't get my ass whipped in the process.

Okay, here's the whole story... if you plan to read it, go to the bathroom first (those who are able) and stop and get you some 

Marvin and I had a LONG talk last night.  Here's what Marvin said: "This nurse is the type of person who's never going to admit that he did anything wrong.  He's going to find some screwed up way to justify that he did his job and didn't make my medical crisis at the time worse.  In his defense, he's so egotistical that he thinks he's above making a mistake.  He's never going to apologize, and he's never going to change.  That's just the way he is.  If you bring it up and get all loud and pushy about it, it will make matters worse for us.  He is the ONLY home hemo nurse in our part of the state.  We're stuck with him -- like it or not.  If we can't work with him (doesn't mean we have to like him or even trust him), we can't do home hemo anymore.  You're going to have to bite the bullet on this one and keep your mouth shut."

I didn't like this idea -- at all.  I wanted to let him walk in our house and then whip his ass -- no words necessary.  But, Marvin always has the "logical" head in our duo.  He thinks things out and looks "down the road" (whereas I react in the moment).  I told Marvin I would do whatever he wanted me to.

So, Mr. I-Am-God Nurse shows up at our house, and he's laughing and talking with Marvin like nothing's ever happened.  I'm sizing him up -- God, he's meatier than he was two months ago.  I'm looking at the knees (Sluff's suggestion).  I thinking about the area above the knees (but I didn't LOOK  !).  I'm wondering how long it would take Kit to FedEx her big stick to me.  I'm wondering how long it would take Sluff to ride on that motorcycle all the way to NC to help me hide the body.  I look at Marvin, and I can read his eyes (you can do this after you've been married for 22 years).  His eyes said, "Don't even go there.  He'll whip your ass."

So, Mr. Nurse shows us the "new" way to check chloromines (this is, like, the third different way we've been shown to check them).  The talk is friendly between Mr. Nurse and Marvin.  Then, Marvin brings it up -- but Marvin has much more tact than I do.  Marvin says in his nice, calm, polite, non-threatening tone, "Man, we had some concerns about the way you handled all this in the beginning."  (And, I'm thinking...if this big hunk of a man takes one step toward my Marvin --- forget Hop-Sing -- I'll pee on his leg.)  So, the nurse starts talking.  His voice is calm, and sugar wouldn't melt in his mouth.  He explains that he was "caught in the middle."  He said that he wasn't our nurse (huh? I thought) -- he just trained us on home hemo and now does our follow-through paperwork.  He's not the one we're supposed to call (this, I'm thinking, is the biggest load of BS I've ever heard).  He said the doctor fussed him out for trying to help us (to, which, I'm thinking  ).  He said it wasn't his job to advise us what to do medically for Marvin or to order blood cultures when I requested them (so, whose f@#*ing job is it?).

I kept my cool and let him and Marvin talk.  Finally, I said, "We like the independence and responsibility of home hemo.  We just didn't think that when we started it that we would literally be on our own."  To which, Mr. Nurse responded, "But you are on your own.  If you have a fever, you shouldn't call me or the doctor.  You should go to the hospital.  If you have a persistant pain or other medical problem, you shouldn't call me or the doctor.  You should go to the hospital."

Okay, Allrighty then!

Mr. Nurse even came in our den and sat and talked for 30 minutes.  Marvin did most of the talking for us, but I did manage to get in a word or two -- and I was a good girl because Marvin's words of "We've got to work with him if we want to continue to do home hemo" kept running through my mind.  I can't screw this up for Marvin -- he hates in-center and loves home hemo.

Mr. Nurse said the only thing he didn't like about the time when I cussed him out over the phone (I don't remember the whole conversation, but I do remember that I was fuming and said some mighty, mighty ugly words to him) was that he couldn't cuss back at me.

But, we learned an awful lot from the conversation.

The Wilmington clinic (which includes the doctors' group that supervises all the clinics in our area) and their folks have a problem with me and Marvin because we always choose to go to Duke for Marvin's surgeries, grafts, fistulas, big problems, etc.  The Wilmington doctors THINK that because they make rounds at the Wilmington hospital that Marvin should choose to go there (we went there once about 13 years ago, and we left AMA because they are so bad).  They say that if the local clinic is good enough for Marvin and good enough for him to get trained in home hemo there, then the Wilmington hospital should be good enough for him, too.  We don't see it that way.  Duke is a BIG hospital; it's a research hospital.  They have the best doctors there.  Duke has saved Marvin's life several times.  We trust them.  We have a history with them.  They have 13 years of records on Marvin.  Because we choose Duke, the Wilmington group wants to be "hard to get along with" when we're back at home.  (Now, I ask you, where is their concern for this patient?  Is it just a pissing contest to them? -- hey, Mr. Nurse is the one who described the Duke/Wilmington thing as a "pissing contest" -- his words, not mine.)

We had suspected this, but it was confirmed today.

We also learned that they're not going to help us anymore than they absolutely have to.  That's a scary thought, but, we're not going to switch to the Wilmington hospital.  We're going to keep going to Duke and we'll just have to fight our way through it when we get home.

We learned that this nurse -- and the doctors that he works for -- don't care about Marvin.  We learned that it's all up to us to take care of Marvin.

Before Mr. Nurse left, he said, "I'd like to say, 'Call me if you need me,' but I can't do that."

I hope he rots in hell -- no, I hope he ends up on dialysis and gets a crappy nurse himself.  I hope he gets an incurable rash (that's really, really itchy) on his testicles.  I hope he gets a flat tire on the way home and gets out of the car only to step in a big bed of fire ants.  I hope...

I hope you all have better local nurses and doctors than Marvin does.

[xtrememoosetrax]

Oh how disheartening, frightening, infuriating, disgusting, etc, etc. I'm sorry, Petey, that you and Marvin are in this situation.  Where are the so-called "helping professions" when we need them??  In truth, a lot of the time they are there for us, but jerks like this make them all look bad.  This is just horrible. 

[MyssAnne]

I am speechless. I don't know what to say. WILMINGTON is UPSET because Marvin prefers
a better hospital/staff? GET OVER IT.  Oh my GOSH.  ALL the more resason to NOT use
Wilmiington.  OOOOOOO!!!!!!

Petey, I am so proud of you!!!!!  You did it!!!!  YAY for you!!!!!!
I know how hard it is to keep your mouth shut when all you wanna do is is open it and let fly.
It's HARD!!!

[Sluff]

That is bullshit for them to be reacting in such a immature way,    just because you prefer to go to duke. Either way at least you got the straight skinny on this.  I hope smooth sailing from here for Marvin.

[del]

I really can't believe the BS they are handing you. Morally is it right for them to jeporize a person's health for going to a hospital of their choice!!  To say you are on your own with home hemo is ridiculous.  Has to be a medical team behind you willing to support you. You are just a ordinary person who has been trained to do home hemo. Like us you probably don't have any medical background.  We are about 5 hrs drive from our dialysis nurse and techs and training center. If anything happens to hubby we are supposed to go to the closest hospital and have it checked . We are supposed to let the diaysis nurse know any time we have to go to the hospital. Have only had to take him a couple of times. Both times he had a temp because of a sinus and ear infection.  Had nothing to do with dialysis.  We were told to treat any temp as serious because it could be something blood or dialysis related.

[del]

I don't think hubby would have been as calm as your husband he probably would have been more your style.  Too bad you couldn't follow up on your plan but I think I would have aimed a little above the knee as well    have to be diplomatic though in order to keep home hemo. Hubby would not want to go back to in center now either!!

[petey]

del,
I have NO training in the medical field -- I'm a high school English teacher!  Everything I've learned about dialysis, transplantation, medicine in general, etc. has been "on the job" training with Marvin.

But, I would do anything -- anything at all -- to keep Marvin on home hemo.  I'd even consider selling my body -- I just hope I could get someone to pay by the pound  .

Once again, Marvin is my mission and my purpose in life.  He's always been at the top of my list, but now I'm going to watch him like a hawk!  Poor Marvin!  He doesn't say it, but I know he thinks I smother him enough already.

[Romona]

I have had two local hospitals screw up things for me. People think I am crazy for having all my doctors two hours away. I understand why you do not want to deal with the local hospital.
It is disappointing that you are having so much trouble. And disappointning that we don't have to raise bail and drive to help you hide the body. It is very cold here and I was looking forward to going somewhere a little warmer. 

[kidney4traci]

Just reading this thread and can't believe what you are going through!  You have to have suppoet - that is what nurses do.  He is NO support.  What about his supervisor?  The head nurse?  Sounds like a battle - congrats on keeping your cool!  (I laughed my butt off reading this thread - thanks!!)

[KT0930]

I can't believe this!!! I am so angry right now about the way you two have been treated just because you made the best decision you could for Marvin's HEALTH!!! Besides, when you trained for home hemo, why didn't he tell you then that you were "on your own"?? Grrrr, I just cannot put into words how angry this makes me!!

I think you'd be perfectly justified in introducing his knees to Kit's stick!

[rose1999]

So just what is Mr Nurse's job???  I am so angry on your behalf.  This is a disgrace but well done for keeping your cool - I know you only did it for Marvin and I bet if you had been the patient you'd have let him have both barrels.

I don't think it would have been his knees that I'd have introduced to Kit's stick.  I hope he gets his come uppance as my Gran would have called it, or as we say here what goes around comes around.

At least you know where you stand now - on your own, but together and with us all beside you.

Take care 

[petey]

Oh, Rose!

At least you know where you stand now - on your own, but together and with us all beside you.

Take care

I hadn't thought of it this way.  And, we would MUCH rather be on our own, together, with all of you than with this stupid, non-caring, piece of dog poop!

Thank you!  That makes me feel much better.

[Sluff]

del,
I have NO training in the medical field -- I'm a high school English teacher!  Everything I've learned about dialysis, transplantation, medicine in general, etc. has been "on the job" training with Marvin.

But, I would do anything -- anything at all -- to keep Marvin on home hemo.  I'd even consider selling my body -- I just hope I could get someone to pay by the pound  .

Once again, Marvin is my mission and my purpose in life.  He's always been at the top of my list, but now I'm going to watch him like a hawk!  Poor Marvin!  He doesn't say it, but I know he thinks I smother him enough already.

Attention ! Shoppers,
Today under the blue light special we have Petey.

[Slywalker]

WOW Petey - the medical system never ceases to amaze me.  I can't believe they think you can hang out there by yourself with no support.  I think the nurse is not quite working at what his real calling may be and I can't even imagine what profession he would fit in with an attitude of "its just not my job."  while I never did hemo at home, my medical center doesn't support that yet, I did do PD and had an amazing support system by way of the nurse that was available almost 24/7.  and on top of that she was actually kind - even if I was having a bad day.
Is Marvin still on antibiotics?  You mentioned that he may still have some infection remnants hanging around his body. 

My best to you and Marvin!!!! 
Take care

Sandyb

[petey]

Slywalker --

Bottom line = money!  And, that just pisses me off something awful!

See, the doctors who oversee Marvin's clinic (and also the clinic where we trained for home hemo -- along with about 15 other clinics in our area) have "attending privileges" at the Wilmington hospital.  When Marvin chooses to go to another hospital (Duke, namely), the doctors from his clinic don't get to charge for "rounding visits" for Marvin's hospitalization because he's not in the hospital where they make some of their money.  Apparently, they have labeled Marvin as not a good patient because he doesn't make them all the money they could be making off his insurance if he were at THEIR hospital of choice.

Also, we had to come off home hemo for eight weeks of antibiotics and go back to the in-center clinic Marvin went to for 12 1/2 years before we started home hemo.  Before this same group of doctors would PERMIT Marvin to go back in-center (like we had a choice), he had to be seen by one of them so THEY could determine if he still needed dialysis.  When I heard that, I was livid!!  What do you mean so YOU can determine if he still nees dialysis -- we're not talking about something that's a "maybe."  Hell, yes, he still needs dialysis.  He wasn't NEW to them -- he had been associated with that clinic and with that group of doctors for 13 years -- it's not like they didn't know him and didn't have a chart on him that's a couple of yards thick.  I thought it was ridiculous, but I carried Marvin to their office the day after he was discharged from Duke so he could be seen by one of them.  The doctor spent less than 5 minutes in the room with Marvin and NEVER touched him -- no BP, no heart check, no nothing.  The doctor sat up on the examining table (Marvin was in the chair on the other side of the room), crossed his legs, and then said, "Well, Marvin.  I believe you still need dialysis treatments.  Have a good day and good luck."  So, I'm thinking, what was this all about?  Bottom line -- they charged us for an office visit (charge is more for an "established patient," too).

It has come to my attention that the bottom line for our not being able to give the antibiotics on Marvin's home hemo machine is money, too.  By going back in center, they are charging for the actual antibiotic (not a cheap thing) --  AND they are also making a separate charge for the "administration of the antibiotic" -- something they could not have charged for if we had done it at home. 

He will continue to be on the antibiotics until the middle of March, and he'll have to continue to go back in-center until that time.  I will continue to be pissed off about this entire situation that whole time.

The antibiotic is strong (daptomycin) and, hopefully, will destroy any remnants of MRSA that's still in his body.  We can only hope.

Marvin says it could be worse -- he could have to stay in-center for longer than the eight weeks total.