Is there a GOD? - ding! ding! ding ding geeeeet reaaaaaady toooooo rummmmble!!!!

[rocker]

Good freaking God what is that?

Well, I guess we know where you stand on the topic of the thread!
 

On second thought, DO NOT answer!!
This thread is not "Is the Bible fact or fiction?"

Well honestly, close study of the Bible was one of the primary things that lead to my loss of faith in God.

I was raised in a philosophy of strict Biblical inerrancy.  When I found some of the moral lessons of the Bible seemed...wrong to me ("It's ok to marry your sister - as long as you're Abraham.  Oh, and if you lie to a king about it, God will punish the king for believing your lies."), and that some of the scientific statements of the Bible were wildly at odds with current scientific understanding, it got very hard to accept the other parts, as well.

But if, as a moderator, you feel that discussions of the truth of the Bible are off-topic, I will happily start a new thread.  No problemo!

I hope you all keep getting along because I am in the mood to ban someone. Do not take my kindness for weakness.
okarol/admin

I do not wish to cross you.  I simply enjoy the topic.

  - rocker

[paris]

Please note Okarol is admin/owner not a moderator.   And I will tell you, I bow to her     

And the rabbit stuff was gross.   

I like God.   

[rocker]

Please note Okarol is admin/owner not a moderator.   And I will tell you, I bow to her     

Oooooops.

My apologies for not reading closer.

And the rabbit stuff was gross.   

Science is not for the faint of heart!

But yeah, it is gross.

I like God.   

I like you, Paris! 


  - rocker

[Rerun]

Oh I understand why some Christians hate Jews.  After all the Jews did kill their favorite Jew.  We all experience the gore in Gospel According to Mel Gibson.  I, however, am of the personal opinion that the gore didn’t at all equal that of the concentration camps in suffering or in magnitude.  I doubt it was any more horrible the treatment of slaves in early days of America – probably mostly by the religious right.

Dan, Christians don't hate Jews.  It goes completely against Bible teachings.  Any so called Christians that hate Jews are not following the teachings of the Bible.

The Romans Killed Jesus anyway.  (Sorry Off Topic)

[MandaMe1986]

Alrighty now. So I am going to just not even comment on everything being said on this thread because....well you should all get why.

Anyway, I do think this is a good thread to have so I am going to try and bring it back to subject a bit.

I have been going to Codependents Anonymous meethings. And its a twelve step program a lot like AA and Al-Anon. And I have been struggling with the second step, "Came to believe that a power greater then ourselves could restore us to sanity". So I have been thinking a lot about this subject. Is there a God? And what dose he or she have to do with my higher power? Before when I first got sick I was very sure of my relationship with what I called "My God".  I knew what I believed and that was that.  Dealing with my health issues and depression were much easier then too.  Now I am not sure if there is a God, and what he means to me. And lately dealing with my health had been hard. So that question got me thinking, is that why we all believe in God? Because we need to keep our sanity? I am just not sure anymore.  I haven't asked myself this question sense I was 13 or 14.  I still believe in God.  I'm about 90% on that.  I was baptized when I was like a week old or so. So you know I have had that in my life sense day one.  And I doubt I will wake up one day and decide there isn't.  But from time to time I will question it.  I think that I have lost him or her in my life, and need to find a way to get him back.  Maybe once I figure it out I will figure out the higher power thing too.... Maybe...

So my answer to the question is I think there is a God, pretty sure there is a God.  Whether you believe in Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, it really doesn't matter. I think we all pray and believe in the same person.  Just all call him diffrent things.

So there is my opinion...

And I'm gonna ask Hemodoc not to comment. Cause I really don't care what you have to say to that.

-Amanda

[Rerun]

I would like to debate other believers, of other beliefs, but most of you don't believe in anything but a "higher Power".  What's that?  A tree, a mountain? You have nothing to quote your beliefs, but "how you feel". 

La La la..... life is beautiful, we will all go to a higher place, peace baby.     

I think it is sad. 

I was not brought up Christian.  I remember in first grade I had to go home and ask what religion we were and I didn't know.  My mom told me Prodistant.  I remember when I was little I was wondering about life and I went over to the bible on the shelf, dusted it off and I had an innate knowledge that it was all in there. 

Peter you should start a new thread called "Bible Study" and just start posting.  Those who want to read it can.  I'll be there.

[Hanify]

That is seriously a really good idea Rerun.  Do it Peter - and that way, people who want to can read about the bible.
On the God thing - I know how you feel Manda.  And this is a serious post on this topic by the way.  I always thought I had a really strong faith - but when I got very sick, it ran off!  It just dissappeared.  I worked out after a while that the reason was that if I believed in the God of the bible, then why didn't he just fix me???  I then reaslised that it was more logical to not believe at all - therefore I didn't expect God to fix me.  Does that make sense?  However, I then found out I was even more shallow than that!  Because once I got well enough to sing again (I hadn't been able to for some months) my faith returned - I truly believe now that music is what speaks to me - or maybe God speaks to me through music?  Either way - I do believe there is a God - I just have no idea what that is or exactly what that means. 

[dwcrawford]

Am I allowed in here or did the Christians win and all the lions had to go???

Anyway, A statement you just made made sense to me.  I was an "employee" of the church from age 11 to 24.  It was the music that made me stay.  Then I got a conscience and recognized all the bigotry there (as some have displayed here) and  knew I had to find other outlets for the music.

[MandaMe1986]

I would like to debate other believers, of other beliefs, but most of you don't believe in anything but a "higher Power".  What's that?  A tree, a mountain? You have nothing to quote your beliefs, but "how you feel". 

See my mother was in AA for years and has always used that term higher power, and spiritual.  I always just thew it all into one. God and your relationship with God.  But when you actually think about it I'm just not sure anymore.  And I don't believe that higher power is just anything.  And if someone choses to believe in a tree or rock what is wrong with that?

Wasn't it stated in the bible
Matthew 7;1-3 "Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. For with the judgment you make, you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get."

Fixed Quote Rerun-Moderator

[dwcrawford]

You know, it is not A Higher Power.  It is MY Higher Power.  Most of us acknowledge one.  Hey, its not a tree but rather the source of all trees.  It is not even all nature, but rather the source of all nature.  I is not only humanity or inhumanity, but rather the source of all humanity and inhumanity.  My Higher Power is love and hate all rolled into one, good things and evil things.  May all, Christians, Jews, Muslims and all other humans, find a way  to bring the good things forward and change and rid the world with as many of the bad things as we can!

And Rerun, I'm open to hear you.  Heck, you can take me to church with you anytime.  Not so  much that I want to hear what they say but because you're so damned cute.  Who knows, though, something might rub off on me.

Would someone please list and define all acceptable topics.  Anyone else find it ironic that though there is a stay on  topic rule that can be imposed at will by one or two participants, that the title of this entire section of thread has "off  topic" in it?

But remember all that a copy of the text of the Bible can we found online and most of us infidels actually have a couple of bibles in the library.  How about reference vs. lengthy pastes.  Just that it would be easier to read.  Short versions work find.

As for me, I'll continue to post and try my best to keep it civil.  I'll post my ideas only as references are not  my forte.  I like to read and then accept parts and reject parts of the text.  Then formulate how I feel about the issue as a whole. 

Anti Christian?  I think not.  That is truly unfair.  I'm really not Jewish (though I play one on TV), but I'm not antisemetic. 

[Rerun]

Judging is just that:  Drinking and driving is wrong.    Moral absolutes.  I'm not perfect just forgiven.

[dwcrawford]

In my humble opinion Drinking and Driving is Wrong is a moral absolute.  Well so is I'm not perfect!  Just  my humble opinion.

[okarol]

Would someone please list and define all acceptable topics.  Anyone else find it ironic that though there is a stay on  topic rule that can be imposed at will by one or two participants, that the title of this entire section of thread has "off  topic" in it?

Off topic is meant to identify topics that are not dialysis related.
okarol/admin

[dwcrawford]

yea, I got it.  Just thought the words were amusing in light of the current conversation.

[Stoday]

I'm certainly pleased that God saw fit to NOT design humans in this way...I'm very flexible in actual fact but certainly NOT that flexible...either physically or in my eating habits.

You're not a gourmet are you? Google "Kopi Luwak" for gourmet coffee beans that have to have been defecated by a civet before becoming considered edible.

[MandaMe1986]

You know, it is not A Higher Power.  It is MY Higher Power.  Most of us acknowledge one.  Hey, its not a tree but rather the source of all trees.  It is not even all nature, but rather the source of all nature.  I is not only humanity or inhumanity, but rather the source of all humanity and inhumanity.  My Higher Power is love and hate all rolled into one, good things and evil things.  May all, Christians, Jews, Muslims and all other humans, find a way  to bring the good things forward and change and work with as many of the bad things as we can!

Huh that works....Makes sense

I needed that. Thank you Danny Boy

[del]

Makes sense to me too. Kind of the way I think!!

[mm2010]

Does anyone know if there are stats on the individual posts?  Like, posts that attract the most number of members?  Or, number of times a moderator needed to intervene on a particular post?   

I would like to begin this reply with a Thank you to Epoman, and to honor his memory by saying "To question everything is our purpose in universe".  It seems to me that Epoman was looking to gain some understanding from those who contributed to this thread.  The question, "Is there a God?" screams for some kind of assurance that one particular belief system is the right one. 

We all have our way of understanding our existence.  Some of our understanding is learned from our interactions with people, and other aspects of our understanding is gained through our own thought processes.  The opinions we arrive at in a given moment may change, and we may conclude that we should try to influence others to follow our ways of thinking. 

Before we can answer the question posed, its probably worth noting that the question is loaded with the potential to divide people into the beliefs they currently hold.  Knowing that any responses require us to deliver an opinion and knowing that opinions are just that, opinions, leaves the debate in a quandary of endless argument.  And so it has been for the ages, ever since humans decided that they should look beyond the physical realm, and accept a supernatural option as valid.

So here is my contribution to the thread, loaded with my own opinion, gained over my 47 years of learned and gained experience.  Humans need explanations for the question of "why am I hear?".  As a result, we have created mechanisms to allow us to satisfy this question.  Some of us have adopted "God" to fulfil this void, and others choose "Allah", ( insert long list of Gods, both current and abandoned here) while still others choose not to choose, and remain in the undecided.  Most of the supernatural choices are a result of learned opinions, while the undecided and nonbelievers result from gained opinions based on personal thought processes.  Where we all end up in our beliefs at any point in time is always a result of the combination of the influences of others, and the derived understanding within our own mind.

Today, my opinion is "We are all a product of the natural world, and any evidence of the supernatural has yet to be proven.  That as long as we have opinions without evidence, they are opinions, and contribute little to the persuit of fact.  In my short time here on earth, the facts presented so far lead me to my understanding that "God" is a mind created entity that satisfies a void in our psyche." 

For the believers, I see their acceptance of the supernatural as a means of fulfillment.  Fulfillment of ones own existence is without a doubt an important aspect of humanity and is why religions exist.  Morality and societies change over time, depending on circumstance, but in the end we all must face the fact that no one really knows the mind of "God".

So, Epoman, if you are listening, my answer is, "If you choose to believe in God, yes God exists".  For everyone else, I am very new to this list. I am looking for interesting discussions to participate in, and by far, this thead started back in 2006 has to be in the top 10 of interesting discussions.   If you can imagine back then, when Epoman was looking for answers to the tough questions, and he created this group, what a wonderful way to bring people out of their shells and encourage them to debate.  There is no other topic that creates such heated discussion.   Its clear to me that Epoman went way outside his comfort zone to share his opinions and encourage others to do the same.   

Ultimately, God or no God, its important to unite as a species, and try our best to deliver a better existence for the generations to come.