Trump voters will go down in infamy

[kickingandscreaming]

We all make mistakes. But the people who voted for Trump made a mistake they will have to live with the rest of their lives. They voted for someone who was clearly mentally ill and clearly divisive.

They voted for someone who was nuts and unqualified. This will go down as one of the biggest mistakes in our history. Trump voters will be remembered for a very long time. How badly this ends is a question that still has to be answered.  The big question is whether we will live to see the results of their horrible judgment.

[Simon Dog]

I have concerns for this country, but for different reasons that yours.   But, since we both live in MA, neither of our votes count.

Imagine it's 1976 (I picked my high school graduation year) and you have just completed the socials study unit on American Government and Civil Rights.    You are given an exam, with True/False questions.    I would hazard an educated guess than an answer of "TRUE" to any of the below would have been marked wrong.

• Can the government imprison a US citizen without charges or trial for offenses against the government?
• Do the federal district courts have "secret dockets" which list cases held in secret, and the decisions of which are not released to the press or public?
• Can the government extradite a suspect to a foreign nation with a poor record on human rights and torture without giving the person the chance to have an extradition hearing and be represented by counsel at such?
• Can the government monitor everyone's communications without a warrant?
• Can the government obtain search warrants in a secret court not open to the public?
• Will the director of national intelligence be given a "pass" if he lies under oath to congress about the above?
• It is legal for the US government to use techniques on our prisoners we describe as torture when the Viet Cong do it to our troops?
• Can the government require an internal passport to use private transportation services?
• Can the government deny access to private transportation services based on confidential allegations the individual has no right to see, refute,or confront his accuser?
• Can the US intelligence agencies operate secret prisons in foreign lands, and hold enemies of the state in such facilities without counsel, charges, trial, or even allowing them to let the families know where the are?

My point is that we look to horrible things that happen in history and think "but that could never happen here", only to see that many things that we all formerly "knew" could "never happen here" have come to pass.

[Simon Dog]

This will go down as one of the biggest mistakes in our history.

Time for root cause analysis.

The DNC stacking the deck so a widely despised heir apparent could take the party nomination is what brought us Trump.  I am convinced a R would not have had a chance against a D candidate with a track record of integrity.

[MooseMom]

The DNC stacking the deck so a widely despised heir apparent could take the party nomination is what brought us Trump.  I am convinced a R would not have had a chance against a D candidate with a track record of integrity.

No.  Trump won the nomination over, what, 12 different Republican nominees from all different parts of the GOP.  What brought us Trump was/is a populist movement that took some years in the making.  That Trump won the Republican nomination really had nothing to do with Clinton.  That said, that he WON the general election had more to do with Clinton...that much you can certainly make a case for.  But winning the Republican nomination had more to do with many other factors.  He bullied and insulted his way to the nomination, but it is the American voter who is ultimately responsible for being open to and embracing the insults and bullying that he offers.  He is a master at hearing what a certain population wants to hear and responding to it.  He sees the cultural divide and pounces on it, and that's why we hear much more about the NFL protests in his tweets than we do on complicated trade policy.  In fact, he has been instrumental in creating the increase of this divide.

He is the most divisive president in US history (apart, perhaps, from Lincoln), and he revels in that.  Any tweets or speeches about wanting unity are lies. This is not a president to whom we can look for moral leadership.  I can understand wanting to see a change in government, but Trump is not "change".  He is "destruction". 

This is a democracy, and in a democracy, we the people are responsible for the people we put in office to represent us.  If Washington is a swamp, it is our collective fault.  We are responsible for draining the swamp and ALSO in making said swamp into a place that is more responsive to our collective needs.

Ask yourself this:  If Trump DID shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue, would his base still support him?  Yes, they would, and he knows it.

[Rerun]

Okay
I'm responsible and will be for the next round.  USA. USA.  USA. 

[Simon Dog]

What brought us Trump was/is a populist movement that took some years in the making.  That Trump won the Republican nomination really had nothing to do with Clinton.

While all of this is true, a better Democratic candidate would have likely the election.    It took both a terrible Democratic candidate and the populist movement to line up to bring us Trump.

Trump voters will be remembered for a very long time.

When we have a particularly good, or bad, president, people don't really spend any mental energy thinking about the voters.

Any tweets or speeches about wanting unity are lies.

With a normal president, every tweet would be vetted by numerous advisers, polls, focus groups, etc.    Even spontaneous jokes are carefully rehearsed (except, perhaps, when Regan told the ER docs that "I hope you gentlemen are Republicans").  This level of candid speaking is unheard of for a POTUS.

[kickingandscreaming]

This level of candid speaking is unheard of for a POTUS.

Interesting how it can be both "candid" and fake and full of lies at the same time.

[Simon Dog]

Candid speaking from a president would be good it he had something useful to say.

[kickingandscreaming]

He certainly doesn't.

[Michael Murphy]

There is a old German  saying which translates to cloud cuckoo land,  this is a state of fantasy and denial. Our moron president clearly lives in this place.  It started with his claim to have he biggest inauguration  crowd even though park service pictures show gaps in the crowd that did not occur in either Obama crowd,  it appears that the moron in chief brands any thing he doesn’t like as fake news.  Rather then deal with problems he blames the media.  Clearly he is a fake president.  The Trump voters who still support this disgrace also live in this place.

[kickingandscreaming]

Clearly he is a fake president.

Interesting that he takes ownership of the word "fake." Methinks the word has been around a lot longer than DJT.

[Jean]

Unbelievable, just unbelievable.

[Rerun]

You HAVE to agree.... Donald  J Trump is the most "transparent" president we have ever had.  He says what is on his mind.

Love him or not.  That is true.

[MooseMom]

You HAVE to agree.... Donald  J Trump is the most "transparent" president we have ever had.  He says what is on his mind.

Love him or not.  That is true.

Yeah, but his is not a mind that I particularly want to see being transparent.  His mind is just gross.  I mean, he's just a giant ewwww.

[kickingandscreaming]

He is so fundamentally corrupt that I feel dirty just observing him.  What a repulsive excuse for a human being.

[Michael Murphy]

If this was a fairy tale the first time he kissed his wife he would change back to the toad he really ie.

[Simon Dog]

He is so fundamentally corrupt that I feel dirty just observing him.  What a repulsive excuse for a human being.

Funny thing, I have the same reaction to "pay for access" Hillary.

It is all to easy for people to be blind to corruption on the part of politicians whose agendas they like, and see every bit of it in the opposition.  This leads both sides to conclude that the other party's candidate is the corrupt one.

[MooseMom]

Gotta call ya out here, Simon Dog.  That is the most blatant example of false eqivalency I have ever seen.  Trump is a sexual predator and is one of those Alpha male types who see themselves as entitled, particularly when it comes to his sexual appetites.  And to think that the evangelicals voted for this ungodly man.

Trump has no agenda for me to either like or dislike.  He is nothing more than an ageing swinging d**k who needs to be loved by the uneducated folks he said he loved.  He does not govern.  He just speechifies.

His stupid hat should read "Make America Gross Again".  I have always had a visceral revulsion to men like Trump.  They think they are special.

Oh oh oh...the whining!!  Please make it stop!  Everyone else is to blame!

Does anyone really think that Trump does not teach the Pay For Access class?

At least Hillary Clinton is not a pervy old man.

Rex Tillerson was right.

[MooseMom]

Can anyone imagine President Obama acting the way Trump does?  Obama's sin was that he was black.  Do you all remember the false but oft-repeated claims that he was arrogant and thin skinned?  Irony, anyone?

[Jean]

Obamas only sin was not being black it was mostly being stupid. Did any of you right wingers notice he alloted a great pension for himself before he was out of office? No, I am sure not. Too bad he is not getting it. Seems it was ilegal. How many of you read about that " other' black man who was put in charge of HUD and managed to almost immediately find an enormous sum of money that, under Obama, had been put aside and kind of mis hid somewhere. You can call DJT all the names you want to if that makes your cheap little minds happy, but in the end he is and will be the winner. He will run again in 2020 and will be voted in again in a landslide. You need to get your mouths and brains scrubbed clean so that you can enjoy life the way it was meant to be. No, Hillary is not a pervy old man, she is mostly a liar and a thief and a murderer, but hey, she is not as "bad" as DJT is.  She is WORSE!!!!!

[iolaire]

Obamas only sin was not being black it was mostly being stupid.

I have no idea how you can make this statement...

[kickingandscreaming]

As long as you're getting your "facts" from Trump, Fox, Breitbart, Alex Jones et al, you will continue to believe and spout this nonsense. I'm afraid that your mind has been totally brainwashed of anything useful. Sad.

[MooseMom]

Jean, your post about Obama's pension is a load of old cobblers AND is a lie.


http://time.com/money/4640736/barack-obama-joe-biden-pension/


The Republicans have spent a hell of a lot of time and money in investigating Hillary Clinton on the most spurious claims, and they have found nothing that makes her a thief or a murderer.  But she is not the President, is she.  We now have a President who is under investigation for tax fraud and for running a campaign in collusion with a foreign hostile government that succeeded in brainwashing people who have "cheap little minds."

How is life the way it was meant to be?  What are you on about?  If you are enjoying life under a leader who is an effing moron, I'll have some of what you're having.

Sad.

[Simon Dog]

they have found nothing that makes her a thief or a murderer.

A thief?  No.  But, the Clinton Foundation was a clear pay for access operation.   Notice how people or nations needing access/favors would "coincidentally" give millions to the Clinton Foundation.   One way to tell if this was "pay for access" is to look and see if the donations from Middle Eastern countries to the foundation continue at the same pace now that she has no official position and is not a candidate.

Murderer?  Probably not, but the large number of people associated with the Clintons who died under mysterious circumstances is an amazing statistical fluke.

And yes, there is plenty of dirt on Trump - generally related to legal, but ruthless, business practices like "You wanna get paid?  Settle for 75% of what we agreed or just try taking me and my machine to court".

They are both dirty.  It is a mistake to see only the dirt on the other side of the fence.

[Bill Peckham]

I think the situation is much worse than any Trump defenders are willing to consider. Drezner is a serious person https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/10/10/president-trumps-temper-tantrums-are-coming-at-an-accelerating-pace/

As Kelly seeks to revive Trump’s stalled tax plan, prevent the Iran nuclear deal from falling apart, and avoid war with North Korea, he’ll also face the challenge of having to manage Trump at Mar-a-Lago.

Kelly is managing the President and he seems to have picked up Kushner's portfolio ... the Trump presidency isn't going well while the downside seems to be expanding at the expense of the upside.

Oh and Clinton is a private citizen so why is she still a point of debate?