War on Cops

[Charlie B53]

It sure looks like someone, or some small group, has declared War on the Dallas Cops.

If so, I didn't get the memo.

No way can I justify the killing, or wounding, of Cops in retaliation for anything that that INDIVIDUAL did not do.

These 'people' whomever they are, are attempting to display the greatest type of prejudice every.   The very thing they are protesting about.   Yet they fail to see the contradiction.

I don't know how to break this cycle.  I am afraid it is not going to end well.

I am very glad that I do not live anywhere near any of the large cities.

[DayaraLee]

Charlie B, I've been thinking that this is headed downhill at a quickening pace, too. I live in a suburb of Columbus, OH, and while not a huge city, C-bus is definitely urban and very diverse, with attitudes ranging across the spectrum that reflect those in major metro areas. I've noticed more and more people at work talking about getting their concealed carry permits, which I don't really recall being a "water cooler" topic in the past. This is a scary time.   

[Rerun]

OKay, if you don't want the cops to come and take care of business... don't call them.  If you don't want to be pulled over for an unsafe tail light out then don't make it a "law" that having a tail light out is a moving violation. 

This Black Lives Matter movement is BS.  All lives matter.  The president should have set that straight RIGHT NOW.  But, he didn't.  He criticized the cops earlier this week right away, yet last night he said "now, we don't have all the information".  Really?  We don't have all the information about the police doing "There Job" either.  Freddie Gray?  Didn't have all the information... did we and now no cops are being prosecuted.  The "don't shoot hands up guy"  The cop was let go AFTER we got all the information.  WTF These guys are out doing their job protecting the public.  They got called last week for a Domestic violence incidence.  Ya, know what, don't call them unless you want them to take control of the situation.  Are the people going to protest the cops losing their lives?  Nope!   

The cops stand and let the public have nasty signs about them and yelling at them and calling them pigs and such.  Hell, I would say protesters are on their own from now on. 

 

[kickingandscreaming]

Black Lives Matter is NOT BS as long as Americans can't get it through their thick heads that indeed All Lives Matter. 

When we get out of our bigotted ruts POC will not have to make a federal case of their rights because their rights (to life) will be a matter of course. 

I'm a white old woman and I believe that Black Lives Matter AND the All Lives Matter.  In this country it is open season for cops against people of color.  And as long as there are guns everywhere there will continue to be conflagrations like what we have been seeing and will continue to see.  It will be a long, hot summer.  There may be a riot coming to a neighborhood  like yours.  And if will be justified.  There is pressure building and it has to go somewhere.

[DayaraLee]

It makes you pause and wonder - what happens if/when the time comes that officers decide not to respond to some calls? If an ambush is a real possibility, it might (??) make an individual think twice about responding as quickly as s/he would have 5 or 10 years ago. One of my co-workers is a former policeman, and he spends a lot of time gnashing his teeth at all of this. (He went from being a police officer to a school counselor - wanted to intervene with kids before they have run-ins with the law.)

This past winter, we were required to have active shooter training. Wow, it definitely makes you look differently at your surroundings. My mother's SO is a corrections officer, and he's taking us to the range this weekend. I've never shot anything before, so I'm a bit hesitant, but I know a lot of people do it for sport.

I may have mentioned in my intro that G is black. And I'm not. It makes for some interesting conversations at home, especially when these tragedies happen.   

[willowtreewren]

Black Lives Matter is certainly NOT BS. This is a good metaphor:

"My personal interpretation of Black Lives Matter vs. All Lives Matter. Bob is sitting at the dinner table. Everyone else gets a plate of food except Bob. Bob says 'Bob Deserves Food.' Everyone at the table responds with 'Everyone Deserves Food' and continues eating. Although Everyone Deserves Food is a true statement, it does nothing to actually rectify the fact that BOB HAS NO FOOD!!"

Data supports that police brutality toward blacks far outweighs that towards whites. White privilege is very real, so real that most of us whites aren't even aware of it.

I feel incredibly sad for the state of our country.

Aleta

[MooseMom]

CharlieB53, you might want to consider changing the title of this discussion as it is inflammatory, not to mention untrue.  That one man murdered white cops does not make it a "war", but is very much a tragedy.

The Black Lives Matter movement is not a call to tell people that ONLY black lives matter, rather, it is a REMINDER that black lives matter.  Black lives have never mattered in this country.  Our Founding Fathers certainly didn't believe that black lives mattered for anything other than their unpaid labor.  Slavery is America's Original Sin, and God is still punishing us all.

The cops may stand and let people call them nasty names, but protest is a protected right under our Constitution, and part of a cop's duty is to keep the peace during said protests. 

There are several things that can be done to begin to break the cycle, and I think the first thing that could be done is to look at how cops are trained.  The cop that killed the man in the car sounded like he had panicked.  Too many policemen/women are trained to believe that everyone is out to get them, and this mindset creates both panic and defensiveness.  Pair those things with a gun, and there is trouble waiting to happen.

Another thing would be to put more cops on the streets and have them live in the neighborhood they patrol.  I know this program is in effect in several places in the country, and perhaps it could be expanded to other parts and in other states.

I don't know how one goes about resolving racism and reviving struggling neighborhoods.  Too many black men are either killed or are jailed, and this exacerbates the problems in a community that is already struggling with the scepter of broken families.

It is my understanding that the shooter in Dallas served in Afghanistan, so one has to wonder if PTSD or some other related disorder might be behind this. 

It's all so sad, so very sad.  There should be no "sides".  You can support your local cops yet still see that there is a problem with how "justice" is unevenly dispensed. 

[MooseMom]

Black Lives Matter is certainly NOT BS. This is a good metaphor:

"My personal interpretation of Black Lives Matter vs. All Lives Matter. Bob is sitting at the dinner table. Everyone else gets a plate of food except Bob. Bob says 'Bob Deserves Food.' Everyone at the table responds with 'Everyone Deserves Food' and continues eating. Although Everyone Deserves Food is a true statement, it does nothing to actually rectify the fact that BOB HAS NO FOOD!!"

Data supports that police brutality toward blacks far outweighs that towards whites. White privilege is very real, so real that most of us whites aren't even aware of it.

I feel incredibly sad for the state of our country.

Aleta

This.

[Charlie B53]

Too many already has the misconception that this was the act of ONE shooter.   On the contrary, once the lab reports come in and confirm the exact number of weapons involved.

I am willing to say four.   We will see how far off I am.

Our news reporting is terribly biased.  They spread the misinformation and make it appear as though Cops only kill Blacks, or maybe Hispanics.   That is NOT the case.   There are a number of White people shot and killed by Cops, we just do not hear about them near as much as if they were a minority.

The same as when a weapon owner uses his, or her, gun in self defense, killing an attacker.  Very seldom is this broadcast.  Yet it happens almost every week.  And we do not hear it.   Why?  It does not suit those 'Ruling Elite' that wish to take ALL the guns away from law abiding citizens.

The 'Ruling Elite' are terribly afraid that one day the common citizen is going to revolt against the unjust laws we are having forced upon of , our homes, and businesses.   It is the same old 'Taxation without Representation'.  No matter how many calls and letters are sent in, Congress and the Senate pass laws THEY want, not necessarily what the People want.I hope Texas Governor is successful in calling a Constitutional Convention of the States.   There are so many issues the States will overturn.  All acts of Congress or Presidential Order NOT allowed by our Constitution.

[kickingandscreaming]

Among many other things, cops need to be retrained.  And not militarized--as is happening now. 

But before they can be retrained, we need to have a discussion  of the role a civilian police force plays in society-what is it we want police to be/do? A military force able to respond to hostage/mass shootings like Orlando? traffic rule enforcers? A revenue source for cities and towns? Enforcers of oppression? Or-keepers of the peace? Until we answer this we can't train/retrain them or know what to expect of them.

For me, personally, I find it very hard to deal with the world as it is these days.  I am overwhelmed with a feeling of despair that makes me want to crawl back under the covers and never come out.  And I can't even begin to imagine what it feels like to get through the day as a person of color in this backward, racism-stained society.

[MooseMom]

Among many other things, cops need to be retrained.  And not militarized--as is happening now. 

But before they can be retrained, we need to have a discussion  of the role a civilian police force plays in society-what is it we want police to be/do? A military force able to respond to hostage/mass shootings like Orlando? traffic rule enforcers? A revenue source for cities and towns? Enforcers of oppression? Or-keepers of the peace? Until we answer this we can't train/retrain them or know what to expect of them.

For me, personally, I find it very hard to deal with the world as it is these days.  I am overwhelmed with a feeling of despair that makes me want to crawl back under the covers and never come out.  And I can't even begin to imagine what it feels like to get through the day as a person of color in this backward, racism-stained society.

Again, this.

[Charlie B53]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q63GKKbBSgk

Some of you may have seen this already.  Fox news item, an activist known for protesting police violencce took part in three simulations.   He came away a changed man.   I have no doubt that many others would as well.

After the news item the video goes into much greater detail what transpired.

It can be very difficult to make a decision in a split second.   Do NOT be the cause for an Officer to have to make that decision.

[willowtreewren]

Among many other things, cops need to be retrained.  And not militarized--as is happening now. 

But before they can be retrained, we need to have a discussion  of the role a civilian police force plays in society-what is it we want police to be/do? A military force able to respond to hostage/mass shootings like Orlando? traffic rule enforcers? A revenue source for cities and towns? Enforcers of oppression? Or-keepers of the peace? Until we answer this we can't train/retrain them or know what to expect of them.

For me, personally, I find it very hard to deal with the world as it is these days.  I am overwhelmed with a feeling of despair that makes me want to crawl back under the covers and never come out.  And I can't even begin to imagine what it feels like to get through the day as a person of color in this backward, racism-stained society.

My sentiments exactly! Other countries have down a phenomenal job training their police forces to be peace-keepers. Here in the US our police forces are overly militarized. They see citizens of color as threats. This affects their reactions to what could otherwise be peaceful interactions.

I do not and will never condone snipers killing men in blue who are doing their jobs as happened in Dallas. I will also never condone police brutality against any law abiding citizen. Those are not exclusive. It is not an either/or attitude.

I, too, want to crawl under the covers today and forget all the hate and prejudice in the world. Why can't we live and let live and love and be loved?

Aleta

[Michael Murphy]

Not everyone is cut out to be a cop.  The best example is the South Carolina cop who told a kid to get his wallet then shot him when he reached for it.  Then there is the story of the New York cop who was scared and shot a unarmed civilian in a stairway.  The best example is the New York Amadu Dialo case in which 4 New York cop shot down a guy reaching for his wallet.  The failure there was the Police Departments.  Policy was that for every rookie there had to be a veteran on a anti crime patrol.  The precinct did not have enough veteran cops so against policy they sent out 4 rookies.  Prior to patrol they were lectured a a new type of gun that was showing up in New York it was made to look like a wallet.  The 4 rookies stopped the car and got out on the sidewalk.  They should have stayed behind the car.  When Amadu pulled out his wallet one officer stepped back off the sidewalk onto the street.  When his foot hit the pavement he fire a round.  Three cops then emptied there magazines into a innocent man.  Did these cops commit a crime? No, they were just in over their heads, the NYPD was at fault because of trading issues and the breaking of policy.  5 million is the cost to NYC,. When we send troops into battle they are well trained in simulated combat made as realistic as it can be.  Mistakes are made during training corrected and when they go into real combat they are prepared.  Cops need the same type of training.  The bad apples ans the quick trigger ones need to be weeded out.  Plus the blue wall of protecting other police must go.  The people need to be able to trust the police and the police need the people to ttust them.  It sounds like the guy shot with his girl friend did nothing wrong.  He was licensed to carry, told the cop and as he was reaching for his wallet got shot 4 times .  Plus he sat in the car untended and bleeding for 10 minutes.  Thee only thing the cops did was handcuff his girlfriend and put her un a squad car.  Sad tale,one more multimillion dollar mistake.

[Rerun]

I agree with Charlie.  Bad people are shot everyday for bad things and only the people of color get the press.

Our PRESIDENT is of color.  So boo hoo about being oppressed.  Minorities get free this and free that and still have an excuse for staying where they want to be.

There have been over 3,000 deaths in Chicago in the past 8 years.  Black on black deaths.  Not a word!  WAKE up, if there are more blacks in prison and in trouble with the law whose fault is that?  Black cops arrest and may shoot a black person. But, we don't hear about that .... except for the Freddie Gray case.

It is racist to single out blacks to be special when it is in an unlawful act or violence.  They don't get a pass.

An old pastor was shot here...  He had some burglary problems to his plant nursery so one night he went out with his rifle and an unmarked cop was there and told him to put down his gun and he didn't and so he was shot dead.  Never hit the national news.  There were no protests.  We all just felt bad.

So, it is the cops job to go keep the peace at a protest about what pigs they are and horrible killers and ass holes.  Hummm there is just something wrong there.  Make the Peace crop do it.  LOL

You want your cake and eat it to.  Reality check... 

[Simon Dog]

The problem is a lack of accountability.   If I pull a gun on someone, no matter how justified, I can expect at minimum thousands in legal fees.  If I drop the hammer on  someone, and it's not 100% clean, I get prosecuted.   Cops, on the other hand, get to say "oops" and they know that nothing will happen; any legal fees will be paid by the department or their union; and they even get paid while on leave during the investigation.   If they are still upset by the episode, they can put in for a full pension based on PTSD.

For example, officer Paul Duncan in Framingham, MA accidentally shot Eurie Stamps (an elderly grandfather of the target of the warrant) in the neck with his EBR (AR15).  The police withheld his name until required to disclose it by legal process (you or I would be afforded no such courtesy), and the DA was using phrases like "accident for which no criminal charges are appropriate" while promising an "impartial and fair investigation".    He remains on duty.  Around the same time, a kid in a neighboring town shot his friend with a BB gun by accident (the "accident" part was not disputed by the police) resulting in serious injury and he faced criminal charges because he did not have a badge and thus had no "ooops" card.

And, if a cop shoots a dog, there isn't even the whitewash of a so-called "investigation".

[kickingandscreaming]

Our news reporting is terribly biased.  They spread the misinformation and make it appear as though Cops only kill Blacks, or maybe Hispanics.   That is NOT the case.   There are a number of White people shot and killed by Cops, we just do not hear about them near as much as if they were a minority.

"police killed blacks at three times the rate of whites when adjusted for the populations where these shootings occurred. And although black men represent 6 percent of the U.S. population, they made up nearly 40 percent of those who were killed while unarmed."  https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/final-tally-police-shot-and-killed-984-people-in-2015/2016/01/05/3ec7a404-b3c5-11e5-a76a-0b5145e8679a_story.html

The problem is a lack of accountability.

Lack of accountability is a HUGE problem. When that is allowed to go on and on, it creates a loss of trust in the system by the people.  Leaves me scratching my head and wondering what ever happened to JUSTICE in this country?

[Rerun]

Then go to school to be a Cop.  Obviously you have to be outstanding to get in.  I think you would probably have the same attitude.  They are not going to waste their time talking to some thug..  Now, come on give us your gun.  We can talk about this and it can all go away.  NO... they send in a robot and blow him up.  YES!

I was complaining to my boss one day that CED's got paid more and I did the same thing...   He said then go to CED school and become one.

[Simon Dog]

He said then go to CED school and become one.

It's called Harvard Business School.

[Rerun]

He said then go to CED school and become one.

It's called Harvard Business School.

I wish, but I couldn't go for FREE.

[MooseMom]

There have been over 3,000 deaths in Chicago in the past 8 years.  Black on black deaths.  Not a word! 

This is blatantly untrue, as is most of your post, but this in particular is just false.

Just because we have a mixed race president doesn't mean that people of color are suddenly no longer discriminated against or oppressed.  How can you even think that?  All you have to do is be human and have eyes and ears that function to understand this.

[DayaraLee]

Considering the increasing occurrences of wrongful shootings and deaths, the protests and accompanying threats/violent acts, and the growing lack of trust between officers and the communities they serve, what can possibly draw good people to the profession? What's an incentive for the right kind of individuals to even apply to a police academy and make this a career? 

[Rerun]

M Mom, just as always if you don't want to think something is true ... you just don't.  Head in the sand. 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/ct-charting-chicagos-summer-homicides-shootings-infographic-20150904-htmlstory.html

And that is just 2015.  I guess if you live in Chicago you might hear this on the news but mostly it is a pass.

I don't blame cops if they just don't answer calls in a part of town where they may have to use force.  It isn't worth it to them.

Again, if you don't want someone shot or put in jail.  Don't call the cops.  If you do call the cops, then let them handle it and shut up.

[Charlie B53]

I wish I had saved the article.  Many years ago I read a study document listing the inteligence levels of those accepted for Police Academy.  I was very surprised to learn that the top scoring applicants are immediately weeded out, NOT allowed in!

The reasoning being the more intelligent mind would become to 'bored' with the job and soon move on to private employment, wasting many tax dollars spent on the training.

So those very smart applicants are NOT allowed to become Cops!

Seems the 'Ruling Elite' prefer those they can more easily convince to do their bidding, whether it is actually Constitutionally valid, or not.

We have a saying in the Military.  Ours is not to reason why, tis only to do and die.

We were not allowed to THINK.   Only to act on the orders of the Superiors.

Sounds a lot like the Police force today, to some extent.

[Simon Dog]

I wish, but I couldn't go for FREE.

You would have a hard time going at any price.  The Harvard MBA admission committee is a gateway to "the club" where new grads get on the senior executive or investment banker track.   The acceptance rate is about 6%, and 90% of those admitted attend (so the chances of a waitlist admission are slim).

I wish I had saved the article.  Many years ago I read a study document listing the inteligence levels of those accepted for Police Academy.  I was very surprised to learn that the top scoring applicants are immediately weeded out, NOT allowed in!

New London, CT for example: http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836