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Author Topic: Brexit  (Read 23136 times)
MooseMom
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« on: February 20, 2016, 08:12:51 AM »
To our UK members, do you have any thoughts on June's EU referendum and the agreement reached with the EU by David Cameron?
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"Eggs are so inadequate, don't you think?  I mean, they ought to be able to become anything, but instead you always get a chicken.  Or a duck.  Or whatever they're programmed to be.  You never get anything interesting, like regret, or the middle of last week."
cassandra
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2016, 03:17:44 PM »
I don't completely understand what took Cameron and the EU committee members so long to agree. I understand that Britain can now pay child-allowance to foreign workers depending on the prosperity of the country where the kid is. For example The Netherlands and Belgium already do that anyway. The 7 (is it 7?) years suspension of in-work benefits for foreign workers is also a bit peculiar as this April the New Living wage begins, so a lot of workers (foreign and indigenous) wouldn't receive those anymore either.

The referendum is interesting. It depends a lot on the info that will be given in the popular media over the next few Months. But I think Britain will stay in The EU
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I started out with nothing and I still have most of it left

1983 high proteinloss in urine, chemo, stroke,coma, dialysis
1984 double nephrectomy
1985 transplant from dad
1998 lost dads kidney, start PD
2003 peritineum burst, back to hemo
2012 start Nxstage home hemo
2020 start Gambro AK96

       still on waitinglist, still ok I think
cassandra
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« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2016, 03:24:15 AM »
Well, well today early this morning at 5 the BBC actually showed a 2 minute docu about Switzerland which is not in the EU and pays billions per year just to trade with them, and has to adhere to the EU's laws. And they are part of Schengen apparently. They apparently wish they were within the EU. I'll check Google to see if I can find in their newspapers if that's true, and why.
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I started out with nothing and I still have most of it left

1983 high proteinloss in urine, chemo, stroke,coma, dialysis
1984 double nephrectomy
1985 transplant from dad
1998 lost dads kidney, start PD
2003 peritineum burst, back to hemo
2012 start Nxstage home hemo
2020 start Gambro AK96

       still on waitinglist, still ok I think
kristina
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« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2016, 06:30:17 AM »
Quote from: cassandra on February 22, 2016, 03:24:15 AM
Well, well today early this morning at 5 the BBC actually showed a 2 minute docu about Switzerland which is not in the EU and pays billions per year just to trade with them, and has to adhere to the EU's laws. And they are part of Schengen apparently. They apparently wish they were within the EU. I'll check Google to see if I can find in their newspapers if that's true, and why.

Hello Cassandra,
According to their newspapers, the Swiss are very reluctant to become direct EU-members ... Why are the Swiss reluctant? Because it took great determination to become so very independent (remember the Swiss folk hero: William Tell, in the four languages of Switzerland: German: Wilhelm Tell; French: Guillaume Tell; Italian: Guglielmo Tell; Romansh: Guglielm Tell...?) ... and furthermore, the Swiss people are also under the impression that they would have to "give away" too much to the European Union in exchange for very little to their country... In short, the Swiss people fear that an EU-membership could make them the "milk-cow" of Europe with very little chance to participate within the EU, but all that would come at a very high price for their continued independence ... Therefore they insist to remain independent ...  (... did I already mention the Swiss folk hero: William Tell in the four languages of Switzerland: German: Wilhelm Tell; French: Guillaume Tell; Italian: Guglielmo Tell; Romansh: Guglielm Tell...?) ...
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  He was completion and fulfillment in itself, like a meteor which follows its own path.
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MooseMom
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« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2016, 07:25:37 AM »
I don't know that much about Swiss history, particularly about the WWI and WWII eras, but I am not aware that Switzerland was devastated in those conflicts to the degree of, say, Britain, France and Germany.  It is my understanding that the reason the EU (or, previously, the Common Market) was formed in the first place was to make European countries involved in those wars so economically woven together that war would be more easily avoided.  Since Switzerland was "neutral", maybe they do not have that incentive to join.
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"Eggs are so inadequate, don't you think?  I mean, they ought to be able to become anything, but instead you always get a chicken.  Or a duck.  Or whatever they're programmed to be.  You never get anything interesting, like regret, or the middle of last week."
kristina
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« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2016, 10:26:24 AM »
Quote from: MooseMom on February 22, 2016, 07:25:37 AM
I don't know that much about Swiss history, particularly about the WWI and WWII eras, but I am not aware that Switzerland was devastated in those conflicts to the degree of, say, Britain, France and Germany.  It is my understanding that the reason the EU (or, previously, the Common Market) was formed in the first place was to make European countries involved in those wars so economically woven together that war would be more easily avoided.  Since Switzerland was "neutral", maybe they do not have that incentive to join.

Spot on, MooseMom !
... And very important for Switzerland is also to retain their neutral independence ...
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Bach was no pioneer; his style was not influenced by any past or contemporary century.
  He was completion and fulfillment in itself, like a meteor which follows its own path.
                                        -   Robert Schumann  -

                                          ...  Oportet Vivere ...
Simon Dog
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« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2016, 03:36:49 PM »
Quote from: kristina on February 22, 2016, 10:26:24 AM
... And very important for Switzerland is also to retain their neutral independence ...
That ended with the US successfully pressured the Swiss to ease their banking secrecy so US citizens could be kept under close supervision by the US govt.
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kristina
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« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2016, 04:28:24 AM »
Quote from: Simon Dog on February 22, 2016, 03:36:49 PM
Quote from: kristina on February 22, 2016, 10:26:24 AM
... And very important for Switzerland is also to retain their neutral independence ...
That ended with the US successfully pressured the Swiss to ease their banking secrecy so US citizens could be kept under close supervision by the US govt.

...  and since there are (supposedly) no more completely anonymous secret bank accounts in Switzerland,
that could explain why so many secret bank accounts have moved (together with their owners) a little further south to Monte Carlo, Luxembourg etc.  ...
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Bach was no pioneer; his style was not influenced by any past or contemporary century.
  He was completion and fulfillment in itself, like a meteor which follows its own path.
                                        -   Robert Schumann  -

                                          ...  Oportet Vivere ...
MooseMom
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« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2016, 10:58:17 AM »
I know it is early, but do any of you have any predictions on whether or not Britain will stay in the EU or not?  What is the feeling of the other countries within the UK, like Scotland?  Would Brexit lead to another Scottish referendum?
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"Eggs are so inadequate, don't you think?  I mean, they ought to be able to become anything, but instead you always get a chicken.  Or a duck.  Or whatever they're programmed to be.  You never get anything interesting, like regret, or the middle of last week."
cassandra
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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2016, 01:25:51 PM »
Okay, early BUT I think Britain might leave the EU. Only yesterday I was pleasantly surprised to see George Galloway (left wing) ánd Nigel Farage (against immigrants and leader of a dodgy party)on the same platform to get out. I nearly forgot how undemocratic the EU is, but George reminded me. There is still 3 Months to go and I do think that the democracy thing will win.
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I started out with nothing and I still have most of it left

1983 high proteinloss in urine, chemo, stroke,coma, dialysis
1984 double nephrectomy
1985 transplant from dad
1998 lost dads kidney, start PD
2003 peritineum burst, back to hemo
2012 start Nxstage home hemo
2020 start Gambro AK96

       still on waitinglist, still ok I think
Michael Murphy
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« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2016, 08:12:04 PM »
Years ago I remember a EU assault on a British institution Bangers and Mash. If memory serves me the EU wanted the sausages used to be changed into something the EU approved.
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kristina
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« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2016, 03:51:28 AM »
Hello again ... and I agree with you all ... (.... and the EU "Banger" and "Mash" incident was a terrible insult to a beloved British food which over the years has almost become an "institution"...) ... But nevertheless, I would be very surprised if Britain leaves the EU ... Why? ... Because many businesses and people would feel uncomfortable to leave.... and by leaving, businesses and people might feel a bit like "being left out in the cold"... But there again, political predictions can't be accurate or precise because there is always the "unknown factor" coming along and then we all think the same : "Why did we not take that into consideration and why did we not think of this..." ...
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 04:01:17 AM by kristina » Logged
Bach was no pioneer; his style was not influenced by any past or contemporary century.
  He was completion and fulfillment in itself, like a meteor which follows its own path.
                                        -   Robert Schumann  -

                                          ...  Oportet Vivere ...
MooseMom
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« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2016, 07:13:02 AM »
Quote from: Michael Murphy on February 23, 2016, 08:12:04 PM
Years ago I remember a EU assault on a British institution Bangers and Mash. If memory serves me the EU wanted the sausages used to be changed into something the EU approved.

Neither bangers nor mash are kidney friendly!
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"Eggs are so inadequate, don't you think?  I mean, they ought to be able to become anything, but instead you always get a chicken.  Or a duck.  Or whatever they're programmed to be.  You never get anything interesting, like regret, or the middle of last week."
kristina
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« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2016, 08:21:18 AM »
Quote from: MooseMom on February 24, 2016, 07:13:02 AM
Quote from: Michael Murphy on February 23, 2016, 08:12:04 PM
Years ago I remember a EU assault on a British institution Bangers and Mash. If memory serves me the EU wanted the sausages used to be changed into something the EU approved.

Neither bangers nor mash are kidney friendly!

Well spottet, MooseMom !... Mind you, as a vegetarian I never touch "Bangers" anyway, but sometimes, as an occasional treat, I enjoy a little portion of "Mash" prepared with a little Almond Milk ...
P.S. If you have the time, please look up the wonderful landscapes, medieval castles, alpine chalets etc. of Liechtenstein ... quite a treat ! The Principality of Liechtenstein is the sixth-smallest country in the world and lies directly in the heart of the Alps between Switzerland and Austria ...
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Bach was no pioneer; his style was not influenced by any past or contemporary century.
  He was completion and fulfillment in itself, like a meteor which follows its own path.
                                        -   Robert Schumann  -

                                          ...  Oportet Vivere ...
MooseMom
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« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2016, 08:40:20 AM »
Oh wow, Kristina, Liechtenstein looks like something out of a fairy tale!  Have you ever been there?
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"Eggs are so inadequate, don't you think?  I mean, they ought to be able to become anything, but instead you always get a chicken.  Or a duck.  Or whatever they're programmed to be.  You never get anything interesting, like regret, or the middle of last week."
kristina
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« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2016, 12:52:16 PM »
Hello MooseMom I am glad you like it ! I have very fond memories and spent some childhood holidays there...
... There are wonderful holiday-homes for unwell children to recover where they are privately educated during their recovery ... and you are right, Liechtenstein is like a fairy-tale ... on the other side, it is also well known as an EU-tax-haven ...
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Bach was no pioneer; his style was not influenced by any past or contemporary century.
  He was completion and fulfillment in itself, like a meteor which follows its own path.
                                        -   Robert Schumann  -

                                          ...  Oportet Vivere ...
kristina
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« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2016, 05:35:31 AM »
... I am really beginning to wonder what the BREXIT-vote (which takes place today) is all about and what it will reveal in the future...?
Why am I wondering ? Because it appears bothersome that "our" political parties appear to be "split in the middle"
with half of the party-members appearing passionately for BREXIT,
whilst the other half appear to be determined to continue as a member of the the European Union...
... My guess is that if it were really THAT important, our political parties would act differently, would they not ???
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Bach was no pioneer; his style was not influenced by any past or contemporary century.
  He was completion and fulfillment in itself, like a meteor which follows its own path.
                                        -   Robert Schumann  -

                                          ...  Oportet Vivere ...
cassandra
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« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2016, 05:53:09 AM »
I think it's way more complicated than :pick a party. It's a free vote. It's not conservative, liberal, communist, racist, economic. Hubby voted postal a week or so ago, and changed his mind at least 10 times since then.

Have you voted yet Kristina? I really is that important!
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I started out with nothing and I still have most of it left

1983 high proteinloss in urine, chemo, stroke,coma, dialysis
1984 double nephrectomy
1985 transplant from dad
1998 lost dads kidney, start PD
2003 peritineum burst, back to hemo
2012 start Nxstage home hemo
2020 start Gambro AK96

       still on waitinglist, still ok I think
kickingandscreaming
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« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2016, 05:58:14 AM »
Quote
My guess is that if it were really THAT important, our political parties would act differently, would they not ???

Not if what is happening in the US is any example.  Our parties can't seem to see eye to eye on many very important issues.   Seems to depend on whose offering them more money.
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Diagnosed with Stage 2 ESRD 2009
Pneumonia 11/15
Began Hemo 11/15 @6%
Began PD 1/16 (manual)
Began PD (Cycler) 5/16
kristina
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« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2016, 05:59:45 AM »
Quote from: cassandra on June 23, 2016, 05:53:09 AM
I think it's way more complicated than :pick a party. It's a free vote. It's not conservative, liberal, communist, racist, economic. Hubby voted postal a week or so ago, and changed his mind at least 10 times since then.

Have you voted yet Kristina? I really is that important!

Hello Cassandra,... I am still debating and still thinking... and fortunately I still have lots of time today....
... I can understand the problem of your husband very well ... it is so very difficult to really know what is for the best...
.... especially since we are not political "insiders" and since we can only guess with the help of our instinct ...  :waving;
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Bach was no pioneer; his style was not influenced by any past or contemporary century.
  He was completion and fulfillment in itself, like a meteor which follows its own path.
                                        -   Robert Schumann  -

                                          ...  Oportet Vivere ...
lainiepop
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« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2016, 06:41:02 AM »
If leaving the EU is going to be so bad for Britain, then why is our prime minister even giving us the option to vote leave ?! If he really thought it would cause such a downfall to our country  then why give a referendum? I have voted btw. Think it will be close between leave and remain.
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1982 - born with one imperfect kidney and no bladder, parents told i would not survive
1984 - urostomy op
1990 - bladder built out of colon
2007 - birth of son, gfr fall from 3O to 26
July2011 - birth of prem daughter, gfr 17%
August2011 - gfr drop to 10%
29th May2012 - RECEIVED KIDNEY 4/6 match from my wonderful dad !
cassandra
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« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2016, 06:55:09 AM »
Quote from: lainiepop on June 23, 2016, 06:41:02 AM
If leaving the EU is going to be so bad for Britain, then why is our prime minister even giving us the option to vote leave ?! If he really thought it would cause such a downfall to our country  then why give a referendum? I have voted btw. Think it will be close between leave and remain.



D.Cameron only gave the referendum to satisfy his party, which is split too. Nothing to do with the interest of the UK or the EU.

   :angel;
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I started out with nothing and I still have most of it left

1983 high proteinloss in urine, chemo, stroke,coma, dialysis
1984 double nephrectomy
1985 transplant from dad
1998 lost dads kidney, start PD
2003 peritineum burst, back to hemo
2012 start Nxstage home hemo
2020 start Gambro AK96

       still on waitinglist, still ok I think
MooseMom
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« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2016, 03:56:06 PM »
I'm watching the live blog on the Guardian's website, but no results just yet have been returned.  I've read so much about both sides of the issue that I think I dreamt about Brexit last night.   ::)

If the vote is close, do you think that the losing side will accept the result?

And Cas, I think you're right.  Offering a referendum was indeed a political play by Cameron.  The Tories have had a Eurosceptic faction for as long as I can remember.

What I am eager to see is how the vote in England varies from the vote in Scotland, Wales, and NI.  I suspect that the majority of the Leave vote will come from England, and if that is the case, there is some irony there. 
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"Eggs are so inadequate, don't you think?  I mean, they ought to be able to become anything, but instead you always get a chicken.  Or a duck.  Or whatever they're programmed to be.  You never get anything interesting, like regret, or the middle of last week."
MooseMom
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« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2016, 07:31:22 PM »
So, if Leave wins, who will become PM?
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"Eggs are so inadequate, don't you think?  I mean, they ought to be able to become anything, but instead you always get a chicken.  Or a duck.  Or whatever they're programmed to be.  You never get anything interesting, like regret, or the middle of last week."
cassandra
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« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2016, 02:33:11 AM »
And we are out 💃🏽 and I really hope it will not be Boris Johnson
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I started out with nothing and I still have most of it left

1983 high proteinloss in urine, chemo, stroke,coma, dialysis
1984 double nephrectomy
1985 transplant from dad
1998 lost dads kidney, start PD
2003 peritineum burst, back to hemo
2012 start Nxstage home hemo
2020 start Gambro AK96

       still on waitinglist, still ok I think
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