Why Responding to Some Posts is very ...

[Rerun]

Henry took his ball and left.  Ob erased all his posts in that thread too.  We have a new rule.  You can modify your posts but you cannot erase them or you will be banned.
I love Hemodoc.  It just kills me to read someone say "Oh, I just believe in the higher power of the sun or the canoe gods"  How can someone look at a sunset and not see
the creation of God.  Or the birth of a baby and not see a miracle.  If we came from Apes why are there still Apes?  I love to read Hemodoc's words.  He is spot on.

We don't change people's Avatars.  Ol' Henry must have done that before he burned down his building.  I got some pretty nasty email from him.  I'm glad my address is not on here.

I have questions??
Do atheists believe taking someone else's life is a sin? Or they just don't believe in sin?
Do Vegetarians eat animal crackers?

Goth:  When you do go to church you will understand why people cannot sit and watch their friends and people they care about walk blindly towards a cliff and not stop them and tell them the truth... there is a cliff coming, watch your step.  It is the same once you learn the truth about the Love of Jesus.  I'm not a good Christian, but I'm forgiven, and I keep trying.

If people believe they turn to 'worm food' when they die.  They have a surprise coming and they will wish they were worm food.

How can people not experienceing the disease (I did not say D) say what they would do about quiting?  Really?  That would be like me saying I would not take any pain medication during childbirth.  I've never had a baby so .....


Spoiler alert:  There is no global warming!!     


 

[kristina]

Thank you talker, you are possibly right, I did experience “lots of water under the bridge” (and some NHS-water was extremely murky...)
...my good luck was, that I did experience this very early... and that enabled me to watch & observe in order to protect myself...
 
Thank you Hemodoc for your thoughts and the Telegraph article (one of our better newspapers...)
I thought people’s comments underneath the article were also very interesting and  revealing...

Because of “my” inherited diseases (rare variations of SLE/MCTD with chronic proliferative glomerulonephritis plus hypertension)
I experienced this alarming development in the NHS very early,
in fact I already watched out and made sure I had a surviving chance, when most people did not realize yet this NHS-development
(one of modern society’s “refined” development of a "historic idea" from 1933-1945...?)
...When I started to warn people about it, many tried to make fun of what I was saying...
...they thought my experiences were almost unthinkable... and they were sure, it could never happen to them...

P.S. My complaints to all NHS authorities, all other authorities i.e. MP of my district, House of Commons, House of Lords
and every Prime Minister since 1981, still await an explanation & an answer...

... It has astounded and startled me, that I came across many NHS doctors, who seem to have “learnt” their medical books “by heart”
...without using logical skills to combine and absorb what they had "learnt by heart"...
...They seemed to possess a photographic memory, but not the ability to absorb, what their photographic memory supplied them with...
... whilst I consulted - over the years - with so many NHS doctors, I often felt I was consulting with an automatic machine repeating a certain text ...
...and these doctors almost appeared to me like a product of a fast track production line ...
...they did not seem to realize or comprehend, that their (well paid) profession involves the life of unwell human beings who need urgent medical assistance...
I mention this because this problem has been my biggest hurdle with NHS doctors: their inability to diagnose me in time to avoid many of my medical catastrophies...
... and to diagnose my diseases much earlier...

... Atheism: I would like to add that in the UK many empty churches almost appear like monuments to foregone times...
... as an explanation it has been rumoured that Christianity is very forgiving and that brings too many “wrong” people into Christian “jobs”,
... and other people who originate from different religions, who have converted to Christianity after they were shunned upon
by their original religious community, i.e. paedophiles, child abusers and all sorts of perverts etc ...
...  according to rumours they had converted to Christianity and became trusted priests/ vicars in the community in order to achieve their aim
which is easy access to vulnerable little children...  if it is true, it would be a very sad development...

... Suicide: oppressive dictatorships have not been keen to published their suicide rates because that  would show up their shortcomings ...
...the original religion of oppressive dictators and/or oppressive leaders and/or their close associates is an added interesting study ...
... to get an idea, “where they are coming from”...
 
... Capitalist societies do not wish to publish their suicide rates either because it would show up their shortcomings...
i.e. the isolation of the individual as a “non-achiever etc. ... little or no care for the vulnerable, the elderly and many unwell patients etc.
... it is generally very difficult to find out suicide rates, because so many researcher are often “led along their own ideas and thoughts”
...and then they  “fit in” their research findings with their personal associations (and/or the associations/research-result-desires of their employer...).

Rerun, to answer your question about vegetarians:
I only eat 3 eggs per week (protein) and I drink a little milk and – instead of sugar -
I use in my tea some honey which was produced by bees in the Beech Forest of New Zealand...
.. . and I have been reading that many people get the disease (I did also not say D) when
they become older, because the function is apparently affected by age...

[Hemodoc]

First, there is a definite statistical correlation between atheism and suicide. Correlations do not clarify the relationships of causation, only that there is an association. I would venture that you cannot reasonably deny this associations seen over and over again over decades of studies. But that is your right to do so if you choose.

As the WHO states clearly: non atheist societies have numerous reasons, and ways to not publish, or hide figures of suicides.
That's not a choice, merely a fact.

Cas

Very true especially with the Islamic nations I would venture. I would likewise state getting information on transplant from the Iranian system that allows payment for kidneys should also be done only with great skepticism on how accurate those figures truly are.

[cassandra]

Dear Rerun, I would never want to speak for all Atheists, but I, as a human being, believe that it's wrong to take someones life, or to hurt another human being in any form, or shape or whatever.
I am on this planet, because I am. I try to live my life as good, and full as I can. I try to help people if I can. I don't need anything to look forward to when I die.
When my heart stops beating, I'm dead

[Hemodoc]

Thank you Rerun for the kind words. As a physician with a degree in biology, minors in math and chemistry, it came as the greatest surprise that the Bible is the true literal word of God. The first task I set to after being saved in November of 1994 was to put to rest the issue of evolution and creation. I read about 8 books over a two month period of time with only one a Christian apologetics book on the issue. After reading one book especially by Stephen J. Gould lambasting all of the other theories of evolution and promoting his version of evolution called Punctuated Equilibrium, I applied his criticism of other theories of evolution to his own work and drew my conclusion that all the theories of evolution are based on conjecture and unproven assumptions.

Looking at my medical field with an eye for the Creator made all of my studies much more interesting seeing the wonder and awe of all the God has made. So many times in medical conferences, I heard the term, isn't Mother Nature marvelous when discussing truly remarkable medical discoveries.  One such incident was a conference in Sand Diego in the about 1995 where the speaker was describing the "lock and key" nature of the HIV virus with our T-cells, the target of HIV in our immune system. The AIDS virus truly must act like a key fitting into a very specific lock with such precision, the entire audience appeared to agree, yes, isn't Mother Nature marvelous.  Well, Rerun, it wasn't Mother Nature, it was instead Father God. Sadly, most people shall never make that connection, but the evidence is there for all to see.

Thank you again for the kind words.

God bless,

Peter

[Hemodoc]

Dear Rerun, I would never want to speak for all Atheists, but I, as a human being, believe that it's wrong to take someones life, or to hurt another human being in any form, or shape or whatever.
I am on this planet, because I am. I try to live my life as good, and full as I can. I try to help people if I can. I don't need anything to look forward to when I die.
When my heart stops beating, I'm dead

Dear Cassandra, certainly you are correct that when the heart stops beating, you are dead. I have seen that process quite a few times. However, the issue comes right back to Aleta's original comment about the soul and what is a soul.

I firmly believe that there is not only a body, but a soul and a spirit within us. That is what makes us human. I also believe that we are made in the image of God and that our soul is eternal. There is no doubt that we shall be ashes to ashes and dust to dust. The Lord raised Adam from the dust and the Psalmist reminds us that while we are in our frailties, God remembers that we were made of dust and forgives us those things He would have against us.

I remember my grandmother in her mid 80's stating, I feel the same inside, but I just don't move as fast as before. Her body was decaying but her soul within her remained the same. Her statement always puzzled me before I became a born again Christian. I know understand why we feel the same no matter our age and state of health. That is because we do have a soul and our soul shall live somewhere forever. Where is our choice. I firmly believe these things.

I am not challenging your personal beliefs, I simply believe that there is evidence for a soul and a spirit within us that makes us human. The Bible states that there is evidence of His eternal Godhead by the things God created. That is the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. That line in Scripture also puzzled me greatly until I likewise understood that we can readily see and experience our body, our soul remains constant throughout our lives, but I could not understand what evidence there is of a spirit within us. Well, I didn't understand until I realized that when you are saved, God sends His spirit to live within us and I did indeed notice that distinctly on the day I was saved. Yes, that is my experience and I have no doubt that there is a body, a soul and a spirit the makes me who I am.

Once again, not attacking your personal view, but just sharing my own perspective on how I found my own soul and spirit. They are both as real as our body before us.

Take care,

Peter

[cassandra]

Thank you for your explanation of your own beliefs. I'm just glad we are living in parts of the planet where we can express our beliefs even when disagreeing.

Love, Cas

[willowtreewren]

Dear Rerun, I would never want to speak for all Atheists, but I, as a human being, believe that it's wrong to take someones life, or to hurt another human being in any form, or shape or whatever.
I am on this planet, because I am. I try to live my life as good, and full as I can. I try to help people if I can. I don't need anything to look forward to when I die.
When my heart stops beating, I'm dead

I couldn't agree more. Nicely stated! 

This life is sweet and dear because it is the only life we have. 

[Hemodoc]

Life is precious because God gave it to us. Eternal ilife is precious because Jesus died on the cross for our sins. Both are a gift of God available to all who ask of Him.

For those that don't know Christ, yes, I agree this is your only life. Of that much I agree.

[gothiclovemonkey]

As far as studies on atheism and suicide, it is actually an area with quite a few studies and not just the 2004 study that Aleta is referring to. Countries with "organic atheism," which is un-coerced but a dictator does correlate with suicide rates. The 10 countries with the highest suicide rates also have the highest rates of organic atheism. So, yes, this issue has been studied by quite few folks including the WHO with a large study in 2003 for instance looking at the suicide rates throughout the entire world.

Could you provide citations? In doing searches, I find the 2004 Zuckerman study and many citations to it.

http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/zuckerman_on_atheism.pdf

http://web.b.ebscohost.com/abstract?direct=true&profile=ehost&scope=site&authtype=crawler&jrnl=20785488&AN=82105455&h=v8p%2f2n%2fZ0r56Awhum73kufrS56YxAZRGf3vL0GTnfN5F02des1NanxTcOiq%2bjjQagGDiXKQtnEfTbKwk6th2bA%3d%3d&crl=c

http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/jpm.2006.0197


OMEGA--Journal of Death and Dying
     Issue:     Volume 11, Number 4 / 1980-81
     Pages:     317 - 324
    URL:    Linking Options
    DOI:     10.2190/YP62-4U57-V8CJ-XYNH
The Correlations of Attitudes Toward Suicide with Death Anxiety, Religiosity, and Personal Closeness to Suicide

Julianne D. Minear A1 and Lorelei R. Brush A2

A1  Elmcrest Psychiatric Institute, Portland, Connecticut
A2 Abt Associates Inc., Wesleyan University, Cambridge, Massachusetts
Abstract:

College students from four different institutions were asked to report their attitudes toward suicide, their anxiety about death, the degree of their religiosity, the substance of their religious beliefs, and the seriousness with which they had considered suicide. The more supportive students were about the right of people in general to commit suicide and the more situations they felt would justify their own suicide, the more anxious they felt about death, the less strongly they were committed to a religion, and the more seriously they had thought about committing suicide. A discussion about the ramifications of these results for the college campus is included.

https://iasp.info/pdf/papers/Bertolote.pdf

Thank you.

I imagine those college-aged students may not have discovered that there is a support community among non-theists. The support community among the religious is well-known and easy to find. That feeling of being the only atheist is quite prevalent among younger ages and could certainly contribute to feelings of isolation and desperation. In reality, many atheists keep their beliefs to themselves to avoid public censure. A couple of years ago I attended the Reason Rally in DC. There were signs available that said, "This is what an atheist looks like." I joked that the sign would be a good retirement plan. All I would need to do it carry it in the student drop-off line one morning and the enrollment in my school would plummet. There is serious prejudice against atheists.

There are so many confounding issues surrounding the question of if and why there may be higher suicide rates among atheists, that I imagine it would be very hard to tease out the actual causes. I'm still not convinced that 1) there IS a higher rate, and 2) atheism is the cause.

Well, since it is Resurrection Sunday, I would have to say that the empty tomb is what makes Christianity different from all other religions.  Allah has no son, so that is not the same God as the God of Israel which both Christians and Jews worship. The other religions do have an interesting common origin which Alexander Hislop detailed in his book, The Two Babylons. But the risen Saviour is what makes Christianity different from all other religions. He rose from the dead and that is celebrated worldwide on this very day today.

Mithra, who predated Christ was also said to have died and arisen three days later from the tomb. In fact, the Christ story has remarkable parallels to Mithra. Mithra came first, though. Here are some of the myths about Mithra:

        Was born of a virgin on December 25th, in a cave, attended by shepherds
        Was considered a great traveling teacher and master
        Had 12 companions or disciples
        Promised his followers immortality
        Performed miracles
        Sacrificed himself for world peace
        Was buried in a tomb and after three days rose again
        Was celebrated each year at the time of His resurrection
        Was called “the Good Shepherd”
        Was identified with both the Lamb and the Lion
        Was considered to be the “Way, the Truth and the Light,” and the “Logos,” “Redeemer,” “Savior” and “Messiah.”
        Celebrated Sunday as His sacred day (also known as the “Lord’s Day,”)
        Celebrated a Eucharist or “Lord’s Supper”

Much of the written information about Mithra was systematically destroyed in the years about 100 - 400 CE, during the rise of Christianity.

Aleta

Thank you Aleta, thats exactly what i was talking about <3
and many others do have SOME similarity,
also, yes It doesnt say in the bible that christ was born on the 25th, but its celebrated than, and 'stolen' (for lack of a better word) from Pagans.

[gothiclovemonkey]

Life is precious because God gave it to us. Eternal ilife is precious because Jesus died on the cross for our sins. Both are a gift of God available to all who ask of Him.

For those that don't know Christ, yes, I agree this is your only life. Of that much I agree.

I am glad that is what you chose to believe, not everyone does, and there is nothing wrong with differing opinions.
i think faith of any kind is a beautiful thing, but its not for everyone.
kudos to you for believing in something strongly. i say, if you are going to believe in something stand to it. and that you do, sir. but at the same time, i think what gets to people is that people tend to shove it down everyones throat... thats not good.

[Hemodoc]

Yes, December 25th was taken from the pagans. I will pass on the history of this, but it is easily found if anyone is  interested.

[Hemodoc]

Life is precious because God gave it to us. Eternal ilife is precious because Jesus died on the cross for our sins. Both are a gift of God available to all who ask of Him.

For those that don't know Christ, yes, I agree this is your only life. Of that much I agree.

I am glad that is what you chose to believe, not everyone does, and there is nothing wrong with differing opinions.
i think faith of any kind is a beautiful thing, but its not for everyone.
kudos to you for believing in something strongly. i say, if you are going to believe in something stand to it. and that you do, sir. but at the same time, i think what gets to people is that people tend to shove it down everyones throat... thats not good.

No problem Goth. If folks are not interested, we just walk away. However, if folks are spreading untruths about the Bible, then that is a different story.

It would be my hope that all come to know The Lord, but if they don't, that is up to them. If it is a wonderful thing to find The Lord however, I do wish all would.

[MooseMom]

To where/to whom do you all turn when you feel despair?  Where do you all find comfort?

[Hemodoc]

To where/to whom do you all turn when you feel despair?  Where do you all find comfort?

Who you gonna call, Ghosbusters of course. Sorry.

Despair? Fortunately, that is not something I have really had to deal with since it implies hopelessness.  I don't feel hopeless although there are many things that at times are quite troublesome.

Is that because of my faith in The Lord or that to date, I have not had such a situation? Perhaps both in many ways. Despair is quite a strong word, not sure if that was what you wanted Moosemom, but I don't ever feel hopeless or without some option whether good or not so good. To be in a situation where there are no options as I am sure many have faced in my mind fits that description of despair, so long answer to say I can't really answer that question.

A bit of rain today, a bit cold with the low tonight of 34 I heard. My wife and I had a good walk today around the neighborhood and we were surprised for the marginal weather how many people were out and about today and it isn't even a weekend day.

I hope all is well and that you have no despair a this time as well.

God bless,

Peter

[cariad]

As to being hopeless and helpless at the end of life, why no. I am made of atoms that were forged in the center of stars and those very atoms will once again find themselves shining brightly in such firey life. My consciousness will be gone, but I have worked hard in this life to leave the world a better place for those who come after me. I leave an important legacy. At death I can lay down that mantle for a new generation. I don't see a need to cling to a hope of eternal life. This is a fundamental difference between us. I am content to be made of stardust and return to the same.

Yes, a billion times yes! Gorgeously stated, too.

I am an inconceivably small piece of this vast universe, and if all I ever do is make a deep impression on the lives of two little boys who will one day be two compassionate, intelligent, *happy* men, well, that is fine with me. Christopher Hitchens once pondered how awful it would be if he were to live forever, thus never properly making room for his own son. Each generation needs to be given the tools, the space and the time to reach their full potential.

[willowtreewren]

To where/to whom do you all turn when you feel despair?  Where do you all find comfort?

Why, I turn to flesh and blood friends and family. But, even at my darkest hours with Lyme disease, I never felt despair. In fact, I felt incredibly fortunate that I was able to get treatment. I wonder if I will EVER be fully cured, but at least I am fully functional again.

 

[Rerun]

It is funny what I Thank God for.  While visiting Seattle I stayed in a cheap motel and then noticed bites on my side.  I was freaked out.  I read all there was to read about bed bugs and then was ready to toss my suitcase and started cleaning my bedding because I did come home and sleep in my bed.  But no more bites just the same ones getting worse.  I went to the doctor and it is SHINGLES.  Thank God!

[MooseMom]

It is funny what I Thank God for.  While visiting Seattle I stayed in a cheap motel and then noticed bites on my side.  I was freaked out.  I read all there was to read about bed bugs and then was ready to toss my suitcase and started cleaning my bedding because I did come home and sleep in my bed.  But no more bites just the same ones getting worse.  I went to the doctor and it is SHINGLES.  Thank God!

Rerun, you must be the only person on planet Earth who thanked God for shingles!   

[cassandra]

'Funny' story Rerun, I wish you a speedy recovery. And thanx for making me smile. Love, Cas

[UkrainianTracksuit]

Rerun, I share that theme of "thanking" too.  When I thank God for the "lesser of many evils" out there, it makes me all the more grateful for the situation I have.  When the back of my bicycle was "nudged" by a car and I took a tumble, I kept saying, "Thanks God!  At least it wasn't a bus.."

Shingles, though, is one tough call.  A thousand times better than bedbugs though!

[Hemodoc]

Yes, I have never seen someone grateful for shingles, but bed bugs creep me out and they are not just epidemic now, but pandemic across the entire US. Hope you  feel better Rerun.  God bless, Peter.

[gothiclovemonkey]

i too am thankful for weird things. im strangly even thankful for my esrd. it made me who i am today, and i kind of dig me now, how i see things and feel about things. Yea, i wish i were healthy of course, but had i not had the crappy experiences i have had, i wouldnt be me now. id probably still be me ten years ago... and that thought scares me a tad LOL

[Hemodoc]

i too am thankful for weird things. im strangly even thankful for my esrd. it made me who i am today, and i kind of dig me now, how i see things and feel about things. Yea, i wish i were healthy of course, but had i not had the crappy experiences i have had, i wouldnt be me now. id probably still be me ten years ago... and that thought scares me a tad LOL

I agree Goth, if I didin't have my   ESRD I would  have never been able to retire and spend as much time as I do with my little "Cha Cha" who is sick on our couch right now with a nasty virus.  Poor little, thing, I hate seeing her sick, but yes, I understand exactly what you are talking about. I hate the renal failure and dialysis, but I am grateful for many other blessings as a result. My prayer now is to be able to stay with her as long as possible, that is the most important task and goal of mine at present.

[Charlie B53]

I don't know what I believe.

I believe that I am a scientist.  I question everything and want to understand what's inside, what makes it work.  I'm a mechanic, a machinist.

Religion is a very touchy subject, there is no way to positively prove one way or the other.  There are a great number of religions, who's to say that any of them, or all of them are right, wrong, or indifferent.  Certainly not I.

As a scientist and tradesman, i rely on facts, observable action and reaction.  Einstein is quote that energy can neither be created, nor destroyed. We can merely alter its shape and form.

The human mind is pretty much been proven to be an electro-chemical reaction, constantly in flux, voltages changing and passing from cell to cell as evidenced by an EEG.

Somewhere in that grey matter there is the smallest 'spark', my being, what can neither be created nor destroyed, but one day it will alter its shape and form.  Into what, I don't know, Heat, light, or possibly even a speck of physical matter.

Will I continue to have 'awareness'?  I doubt it, merely a very long sleep.  Until possibly one day that bit of heat, light, or matter, is once again found to be within a body, perhaps.  This could be eons, any physical memory would be long gone.

Who knows, is there a 'God'?  It would be nice if that were so, but I cannot prove that.  Because I do not know, yet.  Someday, I hope to.  Until then I try to treat my fellow man as I would prefer to be treated.