Gay Rights - Your Thoughts

[iKAZ3D]

I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.

1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.

2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time,  because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
   The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...

3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.

4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
 
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.

6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"

Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.

"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"

This post. 

[iKAZ3D]

I've been following this thread, and wasn't going to put my :twocents in, but I had to when I saw ladystardust equate being denied gay marriage with being denied a transplant: ladystardust, if you cant marry your partner, it wont in any way shape or form possibly kill you. That was a little sickening not to mention dramatic which I think was the point the OP was trying to make, who by the way, sounds like a very intelligent and well spoken young man whom I happen to agree with. YOU don't have to.
y

She made an "ok" parallel. However, she made an outward reach into things you just had to branch off and work around to reach HER conclusion. To make a parallel work, the two things have to coincide. And thank you, I never really think of myself as 'intelligent'.

[Hemodoc]

I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.

1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.

2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time,  because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
   The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...

3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.

4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
 
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.

6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"

Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.

"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"

Not the issue gothiclovemonkey. The question was posed why would anyone not support this. I answered that God has already defined marriage, take it up with God if you disagree. I guess you missed my answer on FREE WILL and everyone has their own life to live for themselves. I have my beliefs, you and others have theirs. No big deal. If they want to live their life the way they want to live it, none of my business. Go to it if they wish, I don't care.

But asking me to lend support and approval when I believe it is wrong is a different issue. In addition, the legal ramifications of making gay rights a civil right can have significant impact on the practice of my religion since most US Christian churches are state corporations required to adhere to all the laws of each state. If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well. That is the arguments at hands.

On a personal level, all adults get to answer for their own actions and what someone else chooses to do is none of my business.

[iKAZ3D]

Let me reiterate, I am perfectly PRO GAY. I support gays and gay marriage. I have multiple gay friends that I would take bullets for. However, the arguments they pose sometimes irritate me because they act as if if someone is against them, they are scum of the Earth. It does not matter why. Also, the gay protests are not peaceful. They are undermining to other people. They include attacks to franchises such as Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart simply for their beliefs. The gay population is half understanding, half hypocritical.

[iKAZ3D]

I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.

1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.

2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time,  because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
   The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...

3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.

4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
 
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.

6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"

Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.

"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"

Not the issue gothiclovemonkey. The question was posed why would anyone not support this. I answered that God has already defined marriage, take it up with God if you disagree. I guess you missed my answer on FREE WILL and everyone has their own life to live for themselves. I have my beliefs, you and others have theirs. No big deal. If they want to live their life the way they want to live it, none of my business. Go to it if they wish, I don't care.

But asking me to lend support and approval when I believe it is wrong is a different issue. In addition, the legal ramifications of making gay rights a civil right can have significant impact on the practice of my religion since most US Christian churches are state corporations required to adhere to all the laws of each state. If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well. That is the arguments at hands.

On a personal level, all adults get to answer for their own actions and what someone else chooses to do is none of my business.

This is why we can't get anywhere in this country. Not. Everyone. Believes. In. God.

I believe there is too much for us too know. There is something out there, but I'm not labeling it as "God". Maybe it's the Roman/Greek GODS.

WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH?

They all have BOOKS.

They all have PROMISES.

They all have LEADERS.

They all have DECEPTION.

They all have HISTORY.

They all have LIES.

We can't base all our beliefs on lies.


Enough said.

[gothiclovemonkey]

You are intellegent, especially for your age!

As for her parallel, I totally understand what she meant, and i can also understand why everyone took it wrong... its a very sensitive subject. but it does make a good point.
There are people out there who completely condemn someone for "chosing" to be gay, but would take their kidney with out a second thought... or whatever else they might need at the time.

Yes you cant die from not marrying the one you love, but it can hurt worse than death...


...OH and I forgot one more thing, on that whole choice to be gay thing, even if someone chose not to follow their true feelings, and chose to ACT straight, do you really think thats any better an arguement for the 'sanctity of marriage'? I personally wouldnt want to find out my entire relationship is a lie. They may love the person they chose to marry, but not in the way they would love who they were BORN to love... and thats just sad. and wrong.

I am not pro or con anything, i can always see both sides of it all... but in this case i believe that they should be able to marry.

"If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well."
 Great point! I think that would be quite ridiculous, when I am sure there will be plenty of pastors who would, so anyone who would sue over this... those are the idiots the OP is refering to, and I agree wholeheartedly.

And I do agree with you, ikaz3d, that sometimes there are a 'few' who take things entirely too far. (look at the WBC...) not just in the Gay Rights movement, but on all sides of every coin.

[iKAZ3D]

You are intellegent, especially for your age!

As for her parallel, I totally understand what she meant, and i can also understand why everyone took it wrong... its a very sensitive subject. but it does make a good point.
There are people out there who completely condemn someone for "chosing" to be gay, but would take their kidney with out a second thought... or whatever else they might need at the time.

Yes you cant die from not marrying the one you love, but it can hurt worse than death...


...OH and I forgot one more thing, on that whole choice to be gay thing, even if someone chose not to follow their true feelings, and chose to ACT straight, do you really think thats any better an arguement for the 'sanctity of marriage'? I personally wouldnt want to find out my entire relationship is a lie. They may love the person they chose to marry, but not in the way they would love who they were BORN to love... and thats just sad. and wrong.

I am not pro or con anything, i can always see both sides of it all... but in this case i believe that they should be able to marry.

"If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well."
 Great point! I think that would be quite ridiculous, when I am sure there will be plenty of pastors who would, so anyone who would sue over this... those are the idiots the OP is refering to, and I agree wholeheartedly.

And I do agree with you, ikaz3d, that sometimes there are a 'few' who take things entirely too far. (look at the WBC...) not just in the Gay Rights movement, but on all sides of every coin.

Westboro Baptist Church can burn in whatever religious penitentiary of doom it believes in. Anyone who follows that church is a narcissistic prick.

[cariad]

Let me reiterate, I am perfectly PRO GAY. I support gays and gay marriage. I have multiple gay friends that I would take bullets for.

Then I'm confused. Sorry, you seem to be contradicting yourself.

However, the arguments they pose sometimes irritate me because they act as if if someone is against them, they are scum of the Earth. It does not matter why.

Again, I'm not really following. I *think* you are saying that if you don't agree with them on some political stance or other, then they treat you like you are 'scum of the earth?' Perhaps the homosexuals that you know are like that, my issue is when you say *all* and include us supporters as well. I lived in San Francisco for years. I do not recognise what you are describing, and I lived in the heart of Gay Central Station.

Also, the gay protests are not peaceful. They are undermining to other people. They include attacks to franchises such as Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart simply for their beliefs. The gay population is half understanding, half hypocritical.

This is how the free market is supposed to work, people "vote" with their money. Surely, if you are going to shed a tear for Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart (the latter being an historically heinous company, to be honest) then you must also shake your fist at the Southern Baptists who wanted to boycott Disney because they were recognising 'life partners' and JC Penney who were boycotted for having Ellen Degeneres as their spokeswoman? Corporations are not causes (nor are they people, but that's another debate ) Can you tell me how homosexuals, in standing up for their rights, "hinder other causes"?

[Hemodoc]

I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.

1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.

2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time,  because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
   The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...

3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.

4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
 
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.

6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"

Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.

"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"

Not the issue gothiclovemonkey. The question was posed why would anyone not support this. I answered that God has already defined marriage, take it up with God if you disagree. I guess you missed my answer on FREE WILL and everyone has their own life to live for themselves. I have my beliefs, you and others have theirs. No big deal. If they want to live their life the way they want to live it, none of my business. Go to it if they wish, I don't care.

But asking me to lend support and approval when I believe it is wrong is a different issue. In addition, the legal ramifications of making gay rights a civil right can have significant impact on the practice of my religion since most US Christian churches are state corporations required to adhere to all the laws of each state. If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well. That is the arguments at hands.

On a personal level, all adults get to answer for their own actions and what someone else chooses to do is none of my business.

This is why we can't get anywhere in this country. Not. Everyone. Believes. In. God.

I believe there is too much for us too know. There is something out there, but I'm not labeling it as "God". Maybe it's the Roman/Greek GODS.

WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH?

They all have BOOKS.

They all have PROMISES.

They all have LEADERS.

They all have DECEPTION.

They all have HISTORY.

They all have LIES.

We can't base all our beliefs on lies.


Enough said.

Not so my friend, it is my hope and prayer that you will find out quite the opposite in the rest of your life. I was at one time in my younger days very much opposed to Christianity, but God had other plans for me and sent a wonderful man to witness of God's grace and truth. I hope that will be true for you as well.

God bless,

[gothiclovemonkey]

Let me reiterate, I am perfectly PRO GAY. I support gays and gay marriage. I have multiple gay friends that I would take bullets for. However, the arguments they pose sometimes irritate me because they act as if if someone is against them, they are scum of the Earth. It does not matter why. Also, the gay protests are not peaceful. They are undermining to other people. They include attacks to franchises such as Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart simply for their beliefs. The gay population is half understanding, half hypocritical.

Yes, I tend to roll my eyes at that crap too... Much like how everyone was bitching at Starbucks for not sending coffee over seas for our troops... While it was rather... rude? for them not to do so, Im sure Calvin Klein doesnt send them underwear, and does krispy kreme send them donuts?

I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.

1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.

2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time,  because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
   The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...

3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.

4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
 
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.

6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"

Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.

"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"

Not the issue gothiclovemonkey. The question was posed why would anyone not support this. I answered that God has already defined marriage, take it up with God if you disagree. I guess you missed my answer on FREE WILL and everyone has their own life to live for themselves. I have my beliefs, you and others have theirs. No big deal. If they want to live their life the way they want to live it, none of my business. Go to it if they wish, I don't care.

But asking me to lend support and approval when I believe it is wrong is a different issue. In addition, the legal ramifications of making gay rights a civil right can have significant impact on the practice of my religion since most US Christian churches are state corporations required to adhere to all the laws of each state. If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well. That is the arguments at hands.

On a personal level, all adults get to answer for their own actions and what someone else chooses to do is none of my business.

This is why we can't get anywhere in this country. Not. Everyone. Believes. In. God.

I believe there is too much for us too know. There is something out there, but I'm not labeling it as "God". Maybe it's the Roman/Greek GODS.

WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH?

They all have BOOKS.

They all have PROMISES.

They all have LEADERS.

They all have DECEPTION.

They all have HISTORY.

They all have LIES.

We can't base all our beliefs on lies.


Enough said.

No one knows for sure. and many religions are the exact same thing, same story, names changed... I believe in my God. (no ones business really, just pointing out that I do have a religion...) But I also have faith that my God wouldnt condemn me for my beliefs. My God is my only judge. and when that time comes, i have faith that my god would rather see a gay couple loving, than a bunch of radical nutjobs judging...
And I would love for someone to point out what exactly does GOD say about gay marriage?
(and also show me where they follow every single other 'law' of that same God... )

[Hemodoc]

You are intellegent, especially for your age!

As for her parallel, I totally understand what she meant, and i can also understand why everyone took it wrong... its a very sensitive subject. but it does make a good point.
There are people out there who completely condemn someone for "chosing" to be gay, but would take their kidney with out a second thought... or whatever else they might need at the time.

Yes you cant die from not marrying the one you love, but it can hurt worse than death...


...OH and I forgot one more thing, on that whole choice to be gay thing, even if someone chose not to follow their true feelings, and chose to ACT straight, do you really think thats any better an arguement for the 'sanctity of marriage'? I personally wouldnt want to find out my entire relationship is a lie. They may love the person they chose to marry, but not in the way they would love who they were BORN to love... and thats just sad. and wrong.

I am not pro or con anything, i can always see both sides of it all... but in this case i believe that they should be able to marry.

"If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well."
 Great point! I think that would be quite ridiculous, when I am sure there will be plenty of pastors who would, so anyone who would sue over this... those are the idiots the OP is refering to, and I agree wholeheartedly.

And I do agree with you, ikaz3d, that sometimes there are a 'few' who take things entirely too far. (look at the WBC...) not just in the Gay Rights movement, but on all sides of every coin.

Westboro Baptist Church can burn in whatever religious penitentiary of doom it believes in. Anyone who follows that church is a narcissistic prick.

Westboro Baptist Church is anything but a Christian church and definitely not Baptist. They thrive on the lawsuits that are created resisting their organization. It is simply one more deluded cult among many in the US.

http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/439213575.html

[iKAZ3D]

Let me reiterate, I am perfectly PRO GAY. I support gays and gay marriage. I have multiple gay friends that I would take bullets for.

Then I'm confused. Sorry, you seem to be contradicting yourself.

However, the arguments they pose sometimes irritate me because they act as if if someone is against them, they are scum of the Earth. It does not matter why.

Again, I'm not really following. I *think* you are saying that if you don't agree with them on some political stance or other, then they treat you like you are 'scum of the earth?' Perhaps the homosexuals that you know are like that, my issue is when you say *all* and include us supporters as well. I lived in San Francisco for years. I do not recognise what you are describing, and I lived in the heart of Gay Central Station.

Also, the gay protests are not peaceful. They are undermining to other people. They include attacks to franchises such as Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart simply for their beliefs. The gay population is half understanding, half hypocritical.

This is how the free market is supposed to work, people "vote" with their money. Surely, if you are going to shed a tear for Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart (the latter being an historically heinous company, to be honest) then you must also shake your fist at the Southern Baptists who wanted to boycott Disney because they were recognising 'life partners' and JC Penney who were boycotted for having Ellen Degeneres as their spokeswoman? Corporations are not causes (nor are they people, but that's another debate ) Can you tell me how homosexuals, in standing up for their rights, "hinder other causes"?

They hinder other causes when they are building up theirs. They hinder the causes such as Christianity and such just because they don't believe in their cause.

If I don't believe in a cause, is it up to me to undermine the other cause?

It happens on both sides. They both undermine each other. Neither is right.


IN RED: No, gays and gay supporters (most) act as if if you do not support homosexual marriage you are scum of the Earth no matter what your stance means. It does not matter whether religious, scientific, Hillbilic (lol), I've seen way too many hateful attacks on intelligent people stating CALMLY AND PEACEFULLY AND RESPECTFULLY why they think that it shouldn't be allowed, and then all the gays and supporters just attack and attack. You don't have to be pro gay. It's not a requirement by law or conscious mind. Sometimes, gays act like it is...more often than not.

[gothiclovemonkey]

Let me reiterate, I am perfectly PRO GAY. I support gays and gay marriage. I have multiple gay friends that I would take bullets for.

Then I'm confused. Sorry, you seem to be contradicting yourself.

However, the arguments they pose sometimes irritate me because they act as if if someone is against them, they are scum of the Earth. It does not matter why.

Again, I'm not really following. I *think* you are saying that if you don't agree with them on some political stance or other, then they treat you like you are 'scum of the earth?' Perhaps the homosexuals that you know are like that, my issue is when you say *all* and include us supporters as well. I lived in San Francisco for years. I do not recognise what you are describing, and I lived in the heart of Gay Central Station.

Also, the gay protests are not peaceful. They are undermining to other people. They include attacks to franchises such as Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart simply for their beliefs. The gay population is half understanding, half hypocritical.

This is how the free market is supposed to work, people "vote" with their money. Surely, if you are going to shed a tear for Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart (the latter being an historically heinous company, to be honest) then you must also shake your fist at the Southern Baptists who wanted to boycott Disney because they were recognising 'life partners' and JC Penney who were boycotted for having Ellen Degeneres as their spokeswoman? Corporations are not causes (nor are they people, but that's another debate ) Can you tell me how homosexuals, in standing up for their rights, "hinder other causes"?

They hinder other causes when they are building up theirs. They hinder the causes such as Christianity and such just because they don't believe in their cause.

If I don't believe in a cause, is it up to me to undermine the other cause?

It happens on both sides. They both undermine each other. Neither is right.


IN RED: No, gays and gay supporters (most) act as if if you do not support homosexual marriage you are scum of the Earth no matter what your stance means. It does not matter whether religious, scientific, Hillbilic (lol), I've seen way too many hateful attacks on intelligent people stating CALMLY AND PEACEFULLY AND RESPECTFULLY why they think that it shouldn't be allowed, and then all the gays and supporters just attack and attack. You don't have to be pro gay. It's not a requirement by law or conscious mind. Sometimes, gays act like it is...more often than not.

This goes for arguments across the board. Supporting wars, supporting presidents, supporting anything, you will always have people biting the backsides of those who dont share the same side.
this has gone on since time began... the only difference is back then, there was no tv, no internet, so it was less heard of. now it is jammed in our faces 24/7/365

[iKAZ3D]

Let me reiterate, I am perfectly PRO GAY. I support gays and gay marriage. I have multiple gay friends that I would take bullets for. However, the arguments they pose sometimes irritate me because they act as if if someone is against them, they are scum of the Earth. It does not matter why. Also, the gay protests are not peaceful. They are undermining to other people. They include attacks to franchises such as Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart simply for their beliefs. The gay population is half understanding, half hypocritical.

Yes, I tend to roll my eyes at that crap too... Much like how everyone was bitching at Starbucks for not sending coffee over seas for our troops... While it was rather... rude? for them not to do so, Im sure Calvin Klein doesnt send them underwear, and does krispy kreme send them donuts?

I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.

1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.

2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time,  because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
   The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...

3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.

4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
 
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.

6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"

Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.

"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"

Not the issue gothiclovemonkey. The question was posed why would anyone not support this. I answered that God has already defined marriage, take it up with God if you disagree. I guess you missed my answer on FREE WILL and everyone has their own life to live for themselves. I have my beliefs, you and others have theirs. No big deal. If they want to live their life the way they want to live it, none of my business. Go to it if they wish, I don't care.

But asking me to lend support and approval when I believe it is wrong is a different issue. In addition, the legal ramifications of making gay rights a civil right can have significant impact on the practice of my religion since most US Christian churches are state corporations required to adhere to all the laws of each state. If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well. That is the arguments at hands.

On a personal level, all adults get to answer for their own actions and what someone else chooses to do is none of my business.

This is why we can't get anywhere in this country. Not. Everyone. Believes. In. God.

I believe there is too much for us too know. There is something out there, but I'm not labeling it as "God". Maybe it's the Roman/Greek GODS.

WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH?

They all have BOOKS.

They all have PROMISES.

They all have LEADERS.

They all have DECEPTION.

They all have HISTORY.

They all have LIES.

We can't base all our beliefs on lies.


Enough said.

No one knows for sure. and many religions are the exact same thing, same story, names changed... I believe in my God. (no ones business really, just pointing out that I do have a religion...) But I also have faith that my God wouldnt condemn me for my beliefs. My God is my only judge. and when that time comes, i have faith that my god would rather see a gay couple loving, than a bunch of radical nutjobs judging...
And I would love for someone to point out what exactly does GOD say about gay marriage?
(and also show me where they follow every single other 'law' of that same God... )

Or does Toys R Us send them Action Figures? 

It's also funny, because the Bible condemns EATING SHRIMP8 TIMES

Where as it condemns homosexuality twice.

Christians eat shrimp.

See the logic of the Bible?

[Hemodoc]

Let me reiterate, I am perfectly PRO GAY. I support gays and gay marriage. I have multiple gay friends that I would take bullets for. However, the arguments they pose sometimes irritate me because they act as if if someone is against them, they are scum of the Earth. It does not matter why. Also, the gay protests are not peaceful. They are undermining to other people. They include attacks to franchises such as Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart simply for their beliefs. The gay population is half understanding, half hypocritical.

Yes, I tend to roll my eyes at that crap too... Much like how everyone was bitching at Starbucks for not sending coffee over seas for our troops... While it was rather... rude? for them not to do so, Im sure Calvin Klein doesnt send them underwear, and does krispy kreme send them donuts?

I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.

1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.

2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time,  because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
   The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...

3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.

4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
 
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.

6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"

Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.

"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"

Not the issue gothiclovemonkey. The question was posed why would anyone not support this. I answered that God has already defined marriage, take it up with God if you disagree. I guess you missed my answer on FREE WILL and everyone has their own life to live for themselves. I have my beliefs, you and others have theirs. No big deal. If they want to live their life the way they want to live it, none of my business. Go to it if they wish, I don't care.

But asking me to lend support and approval when I believe it is wrong is a different issue. In addition, the legal ramifications of making gay rights a civil right can have significant impact on the practice of my religion since most US Christian churches are state corporations required to adhere to all the laws of each state. If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well. That is the arguments at hands.

On a personal level, all adults get to answer for their own actions and what someone else chooses to do is none of my business.

This is why we can't get anywhere in this country. Not. Everyone. Believes. In. God.

I believe there is too much for us too know. There is something out there, but I'm not labeling it as "God". Maybe it's the Roman/Greek GODS.

WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH?

They all have BOOKS.

They all have PROMISES.

They all have LEADERS.

They all have DECEPTION.

They all have HISTORY.

They all have LIES.

We can't base all our beliefs on lies.


Enough said.

No one knows for sure. and many religions are the exact same thing, same story, names changed... I believe in my God. (no ones business really, just pointing out that I do have a religion...) But I also have faith that my God wouldnt condemn me for my beliefs. My God is my only judge. and when that time comes, i have faith that my god would rather see a gay couple loving, than a bunch of radical nutjobs judging...
And I would love for someone to point out what exactly does GOD say about gay marriage?
(and also show me where they follow every single other 'law' of that same God... )

I agree, God is our Judge, but what Jesus stated is something to consider, for those that believe in God as you state you do:

John 12:46     I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47     And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48     He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49     For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

So yes, what the Bible is important since it was important to Jesus Himself.

As far as "radical nutjobs judging," well, Christians are not radical, just sinners saved by grace wishing to tell all where to find that grace. Nothing more, nothing less.

As far as the verses, if you are really interested, send me a pm and I will show you several of those verses if you wish.

God bless,

[iKAZ3D]

Let me reiterate, I am perfectly PRO GAY. I support gays and gay marriage. I have multiple gay friends that I would take bullets for. However, the arguments they pose sometimes irritate me because they act as if if someone is against them, they are scum of the Earth. It does not matter why. Also, the gay protests are not peaceful. They are undermining to other people. They include attacks to franchises such as Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart simply for their beliefs. The gay population is half understanding, half hypocritical.

Yes, I tend to roll my eyes at that crap too... Much like how everyone was bitching at Starbucks for not sending coffee over seas for our troops... While it was rather... rude? for them not to do so, Im sure Calvin Klein doesnt send them underwear, and does krispy kreme send them donuts?

I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.

1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.

2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time,  because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
   The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...

3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.

4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
 
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.

6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"

Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.

"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"

Not the issue gothiclovemonkey. The question was posed why would anyone not support this. I answered that God has already defined marriage, take it up with God if you disagree. I guess you missed my answer on FREE WILL and everyone has their own life to live for themselves. I have my beliefs, you and others have theirs. No big deal. If they want to live their life the way they want to live it, none of my business. Go to it if they wish, I don't care.

But asking me to lend support and approval when I believe it is wrong is a different issue. In addition, the legal ramifications of making gay rights a civil right can have significant impact on the practice of my religion since most US Christian churches are state corporations required to adhere to all the laws of each state. If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well. That is the arguments at hands.

On a personal level, all adults get to answer for their own actions and what someone else chooses to do is none of my business.

This is why we can't get anywhere in this country. Not. Everyone. Believes. In. God.

I believe there is too much for us too know. There is something out there, but I'm not labeling it as "God". Maybe it's the Roman/Greek GODS.

WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH?

They all have BOOKS.

They all have PROMISES.

They all have LEADERS.

They all have DECEPTION.

They all have HISTORY.

They all have LIES.

We can't base all our beliefs on lies.


Enough said.

No one knows for sure. and many religions are the exact same thing, same story, names changed... I believe in my God. (no ones business really, just pointing out that I do have a religion...) But I also have faith that my God wouldnt condemn me for my beliefs. My God is my only judge. and when that time comes, i have faith that my god would rather see a gay couple loving, than a bunch of radical nutjobs judging...
And I would love for someone to point out what exactly does GOD say about gay marriage?
(and also show me where they follow every single other 'law' of that same God... )

I agree, God is our Judge, but what Jesus stated is something to consider, for those that believe in God as you state you do:

John 12:46     I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47     And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48     He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49     For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

So yes, what the Bible is important since it was important to Jesus Himself.

As far as "radical nutjobs judging," well, Christians are not radical, just sinners saved by grace wishing to tell all where to find that grace. Nothing more, nothing less.

As far as the verses, if you are really interested, send me a pm and I will show you several of those verses if you wish.

God bless,

She said "My god". Once again, christianity is not the only religion that praises a god. That's the problem.

[cariad]

They hinder other causes when they are building up theirs. They hinder the causes such as Christianity and such just because they don't believe in their cause.

Yes, but, plenty of people try to hinder the gay cause in the name of Christianity, so I just don't see how homosexual activists could be considered worse.

If I don't believe in a cause, is it up to me to undermine the other cause?

Well, if the cause is to oppress you, then yes. That is the issue, that some Christian groups want to restrict gay rights.

It happens on both sides. They both undermine each other. Neither is right.

I believe equality is right, so while I agree it happens on both sides, I disagree that there is not a right or wrong to this.

IN RED: No, gays and gay supporters (most) act as if if you do not support homosexual marriage you are scum of the Earth no matter what your stance means. It does not matter whether religious, scientific, Hillbilic (lol), I've seen way too many hateful attacks on intelligent people stating CALMLY AND PEACEFULLY AND RESPECTFULLY why they think that it shouldn't be allowed, and then all the gays and supporters just attack and attack. You don't have to be pro gay. It's not a requirement by law or conscious mind. Sometimes, gays act like it is...more often than not.

Well, I can see why that would be disturbing to see what you are describing, but no matter how many homosexual people you know, you only know a wee fraction of all homosexuals, so while your experiences are interesting, they may not be giving you an accurate picture of the majority of homosexuals. I have to think that if you were fighting for your rights, you would get pretty passionate about it, maybe even be driven to do things that might seem extreme. I don't know, maybe not. 

Anyhow, I think we agree on parts of this (for example, respect is all too rare in political arguments) but we'll have to agree to disagree on whether homosexuals are (in general) going too far in their quest for equal rights. Thanks for addressing my questions!

[Hemodoc]

Let me reiterate, I am perfectly PRO GAY. I support gays and gay marriage. I have multiple gay friends that I would take bullets for. However, the arguments they pose sometimes irritate me because they act as if if someone is against them, they are scum of the Earth. It does not matter why. Also, the gay protests are not peaceful. They are undermining to other people. They include attacks to franchises such as Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart simply for their beliefs. The gay population is half understanding, half hypocritical.

Yes, I tend to roll my eyes at that crap too... Much like how everyone was bitching at Starbucks for not sending coffee over seas for our troops... While it was rather... rude? for them not to do so, Im sure Calvin Klein doesnt send them underwear, and does krispy kreme send them donuts?

I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.

1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.

2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time,  because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
   The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...

3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.

4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
 
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.

6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"

Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.

"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"

Not the issue gothiclovemonkey. The question was posed why would anyone not support this. I answered that God has already defined marriage, take it up with God if you disagree. I guess you missed my answer on FREE WILL and everyone has their own life to live for themselves. I have my beliefs, you and others have theirs. No big deal. If they want to live their life the way they want to live it, none of my business. Go to it if they wish, I don't care.

But asking me to lend support and approval when I believe it is wrong is a different issue. In addition, the legal ramifications of making gay rights a civil right can have significant impact on the practice of my religion since most US Christian churches are state corporations required to adhere to all the laws of each state. If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well. That is the arguments at hands.

On a personal level, all adults get to answer for their own actions and what someone else chooses to do is none of my business.

This is why we can't get anywhere in this country. Not. Everyone. Believes. In. God.

I believe there is too much for us too know. There is something out there, but I'm not labeling it as "God". Maybe it's the Roman/Greek GODS.

WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH?

They all have BOOKS.

They all have PROMISES.

They all have LEADERS.

They all have DECEPTION.

They all have HISTORY.

They all have LIES.

We can't base all our beliefs on lies.


Enough said.

No one knows for sure. and many religions are the exact same thing, same story, names changed... I believe in my God. (no ones business really, just pointing out that I do have a religion...) But I also have faith that my God wouldnt condemn me for my beliefs. My God is my only judge. and when that time comes, i have faith that my god would rather see a gay couple loving, than a bunch of radical nutjobs judging...
And I would love for someone to point out what exactly does GOD say about gay marriage?
(and also show me where they follow every single other 'law' of that same God... )

I agree, God is our Judge, but what Jesus stated is something to consider, for those that believe in God as you state you do:

John 12:46     I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47     And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48     He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49     For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

So yes, what the Bible is important since it was important to Jesus Himself.

As far as "radical nutjobs judging," well, Christians are not radical, just sinners saved by grace wishing to tell all where to find that grace. Nothing more, nothing less.

As far as the verses, if you are really interested, send me a pm and I will show you several of those verses if you wish.

God bless,

She said "My god". Once again, christianity is not the only religion that praises a god. That's the problem.

You asked a question above, WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH? If you are interested in the answer from the Bible about that, send me a pm and I would be glad to lay out the evidence for you to review yourself. I believe Jesus when He stated:

John 14:6     Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

I was an agnostic for 36 years, then a friend of mine hit me over the head with Bible prophecy for a year and a half. That was after I was already a practicing medical doctor quite engaged in the whole evolution thing. So, up to you, if you wish to hear my answer from the Bible to your question, send me a pm.

Take care,

Peter

[iKAZ3D]

Let me reiterate, I am perfectly PRO GAY. I support gays and gay marriage. I have multiple gay friends that I would take bullets for. However, the arguments they pose sometimes irritate me because they act as if if someone is against them, they are scum of the Earth. It does not matter why. Also, the gay protests are not peaceful. They are undermining to other people. They include attacks to franchises such as Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart simply for their beliefs. The gay population is half understanding, half hypocritical.

Yes, I tend to roll my eyes at that crap too... Much like how everyone was bitching at Starbucks for not sending coffee over seas for our troops... While it was rather... rude? for them not to do so, Im sure Calvin Klein doesnt send them underwear, and does krispy kreme send them donuts?

I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.

1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.

2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time,  because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
   The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...

3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.

4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
 
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.

6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"

Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.

"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"

Not the issue gothiclovemonkey. The question was posed why would anyone not support this. I answered that God has already defined marriage, take it up with God if you disagree. I guess you missed my answer on FREE WILL and everyone has their own life to live for themselves. I have my beliefs, you and others have theirs. No big deal. If they want to live their life the way they want to live it, none of my business. Go to it if they wish, I don't care.

But asking me to lend support and approval when I believe it is wrong is a different issue. In addition, the legal ramifications of making gay rights a civil right can have significant impact on the practice of my religion since most US Christian churches are state corporations required to adhere to all the laws of each state. If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well. That is the arguments at hands.

On a personal level, all adults get to answer for their own actions and what someone else chooses to do is none of my business.

This is why we can't get anywhere in this country. Not. Everyone. Believes. In. God.

I believe there is too much for us too know. There is something out there, but I'm not labeling it as "God". Maybe it's the Roman/Greek GODS.

WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH?

They all have BOOKS.

They all have PROMISES.

They all have LEADERS.

They all have DECEPTION.

They all have HISTORY.

They all have LIES.

We can't base all our beliefs on lies.


Enough said.

No one knows for sure. and many religions are the exact same thing, same story, names changed... I believe in my God. (no ones business really, just pointing out that I do have a religion...) But I also have faith that my God wouldnt condemn me for my beliefs. My God is my only judge. and when that time comes, i have faith that my god would rather see a gay couple loving, than a bunch of radical nutjobs judging...
And I would love for someone to point out what exactly does GOD say about gay marriage?
(and also show me where they follow every single other 'law' of that same God... )

I agree, God is our Judge, but what Jesus stated is something to consider, for those that believe in God as you state you do:

John 12:46     I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47     And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48     He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49     For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

So yes, what the Bible is important since it was important to Jesus Himself.

As far as "radical nutjobs judging," well, Christians are not radical, just sinners saved by grace wishing to tell all where to find that grace. Nothing more, nothing less.

As far as the verses, if you are really interested, send me a pm and I will show you several of those verses if you wish.

God bless,

She said "My god". Once again, christianity is not the only religion that praises a god. That's the problem.

You asked a question above, WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH? If you are interested in the answer from the Bible about that, send me a pm and I would be glad to lay out the evidence for you to review yourself. I believe Jesus when He stated:

John 14:6     Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

I was an agnostic for 36 years, then a friend of mine hit me over the head with Bible prophecy for a year and a half. That was after I was already a practicing medical doctor quite engaged in the whole evolution thing. So, up to you, if you wish to hear my answer from the Bible to your question, send me a pm.

Take care,

Peter

Wouldn't that be rather narcissistic and biased to find out the correct and truthful religion from a RELIGIOUS TEXT?

[gothiclovemonkey]

 
 that pic is hilarious.


I do not practice Christianity. I do not have a specified religion, although what i believe is similar to many religions... I believe if you are an honest, good person, and try to do the "right" thing, that is all that matters. That is all that SHOULD matter.

I know what that book says very well, and like I said, people dont read it as a whole, they just take whatever line they chose to represent at any given time.
I am sure that most people who choose to quote scripture for condemnation fail to notice what type of fabrics they are wearing, weather or not they loved thy neighbor, or coveted what someone else has, had a hair cut, had impure thoughts, or ate a pig....
but we arent picketting against any of that............

[Hemodoc]

 that pic is hilarious.


I do not practice Christianity. I do not have a specified religion, although what i believe is similar to many religions... I believe if you are an honest, good person, and try to do the "right" thing, that is all that matters. That is all that SHOULD matter.

I know what that book says very well, and like I said, people dont read it as a whole, they just take whatever line they chose to represent at any given time.
I am sure that most people who choose to quote scripture for condemnation fail to notice what type of fabrics they are wearing, weather or not they loved thy neighbor, or coveted what someone else has, had a hair cut, had impure thoughts, or ate a pig....
but we arent picketting against any of that............

No problem, in any case, if you are interested in the verses in the Bible on homosexuality, then just send me a pm anyway.

God bless,

[Hemodoc]

Let me reiterate, I am perfectly PRO GAY. I support gays and gay marriage. I have multiple gay friends that I would take bullets for. However, the arguments they pose sometimes irritate me because they act as if if someone is against them, they are scum of the Earth. It does not matter why. Also, the gay protests are not peaceful. They are undermining to other people. They include attacks to franchises such as Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart simply for their beliefs. The gay population is half understanding, half hypocritical.

Yes, I tend to roll my eyes at that crap too... Much like how everyone was bitching at Starbucks for not sending coffee over seas for our troops... While it was rather... rude? for them not to do so, Im sure Calvin Klein doesnt send them underwear, and does krispy kreme send them donuts?

I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.

1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.

2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time,  because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
   The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...

3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.

4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
 
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.

6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"

Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.

"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"

Not the issue gothiclovemonkey. The question was posed why would anyone not support this. I answered that God has already defined marriage, take it up with God if you disagree. I guess you missed my answer on FREE WILL and everyone has their own life to live for themselves. I have my beliefs, you and others have theirs. No big deal. If they want to live their life the way they want to live it, none of my business. Go to it if they wish, I don't care.

But asking me to lend support and approval when I believe it is wrong is a different issue. In addition, the legal ramifications of making gay rights a civil right can have significant impact on the practice of my religion since most US Christian churches are state corporations required to adhere to all the laws of each state. If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well. That is the arguments at hands.

On a personal level, all adults get to answer for their own actions and what someone else chooses to do is none of my business.

This is why we can't get anywhere in this country. Not. Everyone. Believes. In. God.

I believe there is too much for us too know. There is something out there, but I'm not labeling it as "God". Maybe it's the Roman/Greek GODS.

WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH?

They all have BOOKS.

They all have PROMISES.

They all have LEADERS.

They all have DECEPTION.

They all have HISTORY.

They all have LIES.

We can't base all our beliefs on lies.


Enough said.

No one knows for sure. and many religions are the exact same thing, same story, names changed... I believe in my God. (no ones business really, just pointing out that I do have a religion...) But I also have faith that my God wouldnt condemn me for my beliefs. My God is my only judge. and when that time comes, i have faith that my god would rather see a gay couple loving, than a bunch of radical nutjobs judging...
And I would love for someone to point out what exactly does GOD say about gay marriage?
(and also show me where they follow every single other 'law' of that same God... )

I agree, God is our Judge, but what Jesus stated is something to consider, for those that believe in God as you state you do:

John 12:46     I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47     And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48     He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49     For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

So yes, what the Bible is important since it was important to Jesus Himself.

As far as "radical nutjobs judging," well, Christians are not radical, just sinners saved by grace wishing to tell all where to find that grace. Nothing more, nothing less.

As far as the verses, if you are really interested, send me a pm and I will show you several of those verses if you wish.

God bless,

She said "My god". Once again, christianity is not the only religion that praises a god. That's the problem.

You asked a question above, WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH? If you are interested in the answer from the Bible about that, send me a pm and I would be glad to lay out the evidence for you to review yourself. I believe Jesus when He stated:

John 14:6     Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

I was an agnostic for 36 years, then a friend of mine hit me over the head with Bible prophecy for a year and a half. That was after I was already a practicing medical doctor quite engaged in the whole evolution thing. So, up to you, if you wish to hear my answer from the Bible to your question, send me a pm.

Take care,

Peter

Wouldn't that be rather narcissistic and biased to find out the correct and truthful religion from a RELIGIOUS TEXT?

Actually, not at all my friend. If you are ever interested, send me a pm anyway.

God bless,

[Hemodoc]

Let me reiterate, I am perfectly PRO GAY. I support gays and gay marriage. I have multiple gay friends that I would take bullets for. However, the arguments they pose sometimes irritate me because they act as if if someone is against them, they are scum of the Earth. It does not matter why. Also, the gay protests are not peaceful. They are undermining to other people. They include attacks to franchises such as Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart simply for their beliefs. The gay population is half understanding, half hypocritical.

Yes, I tend to roll my eyes at that crap too... Much like how everyone was bitching at Starbucks for not sending coffee over seas for our troops... While it was rather... rude? for them not to do so, Im sure Calvin Klein doesnt send them underwear, and does krispy kreme send them donuts?

I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.

1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.

2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time,  because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
   The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...

3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.

4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
 
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.

6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"

Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.

"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"

Not the issue gothiclovemonkey. The question was posed why would anyone not support this. I answered that God has already defined marriage, take it up with God if you disagree. I guess you missed my answer on FREE WILL and everyone has their own life to live for themselves. I have my beliefs, you and others have theirs. No big deal. If they want to live their life the way they want to live it, none of my business. Go to it if they wish, I don't care.

But asking me to lend support and approval when I believe it is wrong is a different issue. In addition, the legal ramifications of making gay rights a civil right can have significant impact on the practice of my religion since most US Christian churches are state corporations required to adhere to all the laws of each state. If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well. That is the arguments at hands.

On a personal level, all adults get to answer for their own actions and what someone else chooses to do is none of my business.

This is why we can't get anywhere in this country. Not. Everyone. Believes. In. God.

I believe there is too much for us too know. There is something out there, but I'm not labeling it as "God". Maybe it's the Roman/Greek GODS.

WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH?

They all have BOOKS.

They all have PROMISES.

They all have LEADERS.

They all have DECEPTION.

They all have HISTORY.

They all have LIES.

We can't base all our beliefs on lies.


Enough said.

No one knows for sure. and many religions are the exact same thing, same story, names changed... I believe in my God. (no ones business really, just pointing out that I do have a religion...) But I also have faith that my God wouldnt condemn me for my beliefs. My God is my only judge. and when that time comes, i have faith that my god would rather see a gay couple loving, than a bunch of radical nutjobs judging...
And I would love for someone to point out what exactly does GOD say about gay marriage?
(and also show me where they follow every single other 'law' of that same God... )

Or does Toys R Us send them Action Figures? 

It's also funny, because the Bible condemns EATING SHRIMP8 TIMES

Where as it condemns homosexuality twice.

Christians eat shrimp.

See the logic of the Bible?

Actually my friend, you are quoting from the Old Testament law about not eating shrimp and a lot of other "unclean" creatures. However, if you read the New Testament, you will see that Christians are not under the law of the OT. I would suggest you actually get a bit more educated on what the Bible and Christianity is all about. If you still want to criticize, go ahead, but make sure that your own arguments are logical.

[willowtreewren]

Actually my friend, you are quoting from the Old Testament law about not eating shrimp and a lot of other "unclean" creatures. However, if you read the New Testament, you will see that Christians are not under the law of the OT. I would suggest you actually get a bit more educated on what the Bible and Christianity is all about. If you still want to criticize, go ahead, but make sure that your own arguments are logical.

This just seems beyond the realm of logic. The Bible is supposed to be the word of the Christian god. The Christian god is supposed to be all-knowing. Oops. God was mistaken when he wrote the OT, so he fixed it all up and got it right in the NT.

Despite this piece of inconsistency, why aren't Christians more concerned about following ALL the edicts from their god, instead of the ones that they decide to follow? I just have a hard time wrapping my head around that.

Personally, I think most of the people posting here are nicer and more tolerant than the Christian god. That goes for their attitudes toward gays, other "tribes," and folks who are just different than they are.

 

[Emerson Burick]

Now, let's take it a step further. If you define gay rights as a civil right and no discrimination against that civil right, then yes, churches that refuse to marry gay couples could be prosecuted or sued for exercising their beliefs. That is the real opposition against redefining marriage. Since most American Christian churches are incorporated in their state, yes, all laws against discrimination if it included gay marriage could force pastors in churches to perform gay marriage against the teaching of the Bible.

That's just silly. The Catholic church doesn't allow for divorce. Where are all the lawsuits demanding that the church permit it? Oh, right. There aren't any. Jews don't eat shellfish. Where are the lawsuits demanding that they serve it at bar mitzvah receptions? Oh, right. None of those either. Muslims don't eat pork. Again, lawsuits? Nope. What happens within the church is the business of the church.

I live in Massachusetts where gay marriage has been the law of the land for about nine years and your spooky "gheys are gonna make you get gay married and consummate it on the altar" stories just aren't true. Specifically, there haven't been any lawsuits trying to "force pastors in churches to perform gay marriages," as you fear, and they've had plenty of time. There have, been, however, plenty of pastors who have welcomed gay marriage, and been perfectly happy to perform gay weddings. If they're okay with it, why aren't you?