Gay Rights - Your Thoughts

[iKAZ3D]

     Everyday we are greeted with more and more gay marriage debates, but how much just makes you want to throw a brick at the TV and scream 'Bloody Murder'?

 

Images like this are satirical. They are joking at the common people and the Government and there claims. These are fine, and if I saw someone holding this sign, I'd say "I support you in every way".


When the whole Chick-Fil-A horse shit began, I knew they went beyond a point that was just too much! The CEO of Chick-Fil-A is a Christian. He does NOT believe in Homosexuality. OH MY FRIGGIN GOD IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND? He didn't ban them from his resturaunts, he didn't tax them, he didn't do anything, he simply stated that he did not support them. Get a little butthurt, much, gays? And, uh, cows? They serve chicken...DERP.



This one is just...ignorant. Jumping on the racial bandwagon?


So, if you were never aware, people were attempting to change there profile pictures to this red equals sign to "show their support in gay marriage" on Facebook. Obviously, it didn't do to well. I didn't do it, because the lack of informed gays and ignorance within their communities has led me to stop fully supporting them. I'm sorry, being gay IS a choice. It's not a DIRECT choice, but you are not born gay.


OBAMA LIED TO YOU. 'Nuff said.



And here we end on the final note, the problem with ALL GAYS AND ALL GAY SUPPORTERS!
If you don't support gays, you are not fit to walk this Earth.


Tell me your experiences or opinions on the matter!

[Rerun]

It makes me sick.  Now we have to hear about each SPORT one at a time to come out.  We already know about women sports!~  I don't want to hear about Gay anything.  they already have equal domestic rights.  Why make marriage between a man and a woman weird too.  Why make gay and Lesbian partnerships "normal" when it is not.
Weirdos''''.

     

PS your pictures are wayyyy to big.  Admins may remove them.  Our server can't support big images like that. 

[Hemodoc]

It makes me sick.  Now we have to hear about each SPORT one at a time to come out.  We already know about women sports!~  I don't want to hear about Gay anything.  they already have equal domestic rights.  Why make marriage between a man and a woman weird too.  Why make gay and Lesbian partnerships "normal" when it is not.
Weirdos''''.

     

PS your pictures are wayyyy to big.  Admins may remove them.  Our server can't support big images like that.

Too funny Rerun. I miss your neck of the woods. We are selling our house in CA and won't make it back up to Idaho until FIVE more weeks. Tell Dr. O hello.

[Emerson Burick]

I don't want to hear about Gay anything.  they already have equal domestic rights.

Actuality, they don't currently have equal rights, which is why your delicate, shell-like ears keep having to hear peoples' complaints. There are 400 state benefits and 1,100+ federal benefits granted to married couples. Here are just a few:

* Access to employer-provided heath and retirement benefits for partner and nonbiological/adoptive children.
* Access to partner's coverage under Medicare and Social Security.
* Ability to visit or make medical decisions for an ill or incapacitated partner.
* Right to sue for wrongful death of partner.
* Ability to sponsor one's partner for immigration.
* Joint insurance policies for home, auto and health.
* Joint parenting and Joint adoption.
* Bereavement or sick leave to care for a partner or child.

You have a problem with every married couple, regardless of sex, having these rights? By all means, let's hear why.

[Hemodoc]

I don't want to hear about Gay anything.  they already have equal domestic rights.

Actuality, they don't currently have equal rights, which is why your delicate, shell-like ears keep having to hear peoples' complaints. There are 400 state benefits and 1,100+ federal benefits granted to married couples. Here are just a few:

* Access to employer-provided heath and retirement benefits for partner and nonbiological/adoptive children.
* Access to partner's coverage under Medicare and Social Security.
* Ability to visit or make medical decisions for an ill or incapacitated partner.
* Right to sue for wrongful death of partner.
* Ability to sponsor one's partner for immigration.
* Joint insurance policies for home, auto and health.
* Joint parenting and Joint adoption.
* Bereavement or sick leave to care for a partner or child.

You have a problem with every married couple, regardless of sex, having these rights? By all means, let's hear why.

Well, I will venture. The issue for many of us is who is it that defines what marriage is? We believe God already did that a long time ago. If you wish to take it up with God, so be it. You certainly have every right to complain to Him if you wish. So for those of us who believe in God, the issue is already settled my friend.

[okarol]

I sent you a PM iKAZ3D.
No links to images are allowed. Here's the rule:
About outside links to either PDF's, pictures, videos, etc. PLEASE DO NOT link them. If it is a worthy video, picture, or PDF, I can host it on the site, so we NEVER have dead links. I reserve the right to delete any and all outside links. So please ATTACH everything, if you can't attach it, ask me if I could attach it for you. To clarify to ALL members, I HATE OUTSIDE LINKS, DO NOT POST LINKS to files, links to a website is ok, but please do not link things like: pictures, flash, pdf's, videos, etc, etc. See the rule above to understand why. To clarify you can attach images and .PDF files just do not link to them.

Please remove the links or I will have to send this thread to the recycle bin.
Thanks,
okarol/admin

[iKAZ3D]

I sent you a PM iKAZ3D.
No links to images are allowed. Here's the rule:
About outside links to either PDF's, pictures, videos, etc. PLEASE DO NOT link them. If it is a worthy video, picture, or PDF, I can host it on the site, so we NEVER have dead links. I reserve the right to delete any and all outside links. So please ATTACH everything, if you can't attach it, ask me if I could attach it for you. To clarify to ALL members, I HATE OUTSIDE LINKS, DO NOT POST LINKS to files, links to a website is ok, but please do not link things like: pictures, flash, pdf's, videos, etc, etc. See the rule above to understand why. To clarify you can attach images and .PDF files just do not link to them.

Please remove the links or I will have to send this thread to the recycle bin.
Thanks,
okarol/admin

Sorry about that, Okarol! I wasn't thinking! I wanted them displayed in order, also. My bad. I will accept any and all liquid restrictions. 

[Ladystardust24]

Not that I come around often. But this is basically why.

Oppression is oppression.

This whole thread shows utter ignorance and stupidity.

What I find ironic? People here want to be treated like human beings? Well what makes us different from animals is ability to empathize. Which you seem to lack. The only thing I see about anti gay. Especially when I see it coming from people who understand what it's like to be treated like you're not even human, is bitterness. 

What's funny, pretty sure everyone here has had to argue with religious based ignorance of why you're sick. (Obviously, because God wanted it that way?)

funny, pretty sure everyone here waiting for a transplant, wouldn't say no or stop their rejection drugs, upon finding out their donor is gay. So, it's only okay if it's good for you. If it agrees with you/benefits you.
 

[Ladystardust24]

By the way.

Yeah. I'm queer. And I would HATE for my partner not to be allowed to visit me. But I'm weird and abnormal like that. Having loved ones or wanting to spend my life with someone who loves me. So abnormal.

[Hemodoc]

Not that I come around often. But this is basically why.

Oppression is oppression.

This whole thread shows utter ignorance and stupidity.

What I find ironic? People here want to be treated like human beings? Well what makes us different from animals is ability to empathize. Which you seem to lack. The only thing I see about anti gay. Especially when I see it coming from people who understand what it's like to be treated like you're not even human, is bitterness. 

What's funny, pretty sure everyone here has had to argue with religious based ignorance of why you're sick. (Obviously, because God wanted it that way?)

funny, pretty sure everyone here waiting for a transplant, wouldn't say no or stop their rejection drugs, upon finding out their donor is gay. So, it's only okay if it's good for you. If it agrees with you/benefits you.

No problem Ladystardust24, I certainly won't tell you how to live your life. God has granted free will to all. I personally believe that God is real, His Bible is real and I try to adhere to that as best I can because I already have enough to answer for on the day I stand before Him. Sorry, that is not ignorant, that is just my belief. If you have your own beliefs, so be it.

The topic that I referred to is marriage and I believe God already defined that as between a man and a woman. If your beliefs are different, so be it, believe what you wish. Doesn't mean I have to agree.

[iKAZ3D]

Not that I come around often. But this is basically why.

Oppression is oppression.

This whole thread shows utter ignorance and stupidity.

What I find ironic? People here want to be treated like human beings? Well what makes us different from animals is ability to empathize. Which you seem to lack. The only thing I see about anti gay. Especially when I see it coming from people who understand what it's like to be treated like you're not even human, is bitterness. 

What's funny, pretty sure everyone here has had to argue with religious based ignorance of why you're sick. (Obviously, because God wanted it that way?)

funny, pretty sure everyone here waiting for a transplant, wouldn't say no or stop their rejection drugs, upon finding out their donor is gay. So, it's only okay if it's good for you. If it agrees with you/benefits you.

A) I do support gays, but its getting to the point where they are spewing out so much nonsense about things that they think helps their cause and hinders other causes that it's become irritating.
B) Religion has its own role, none which I play, but just as gays have their rights, religious folks have their rights. Gays need to stop being hypocritical about that.
C) The problem I mostly have with gays is if you don't support gays, then you are scum of the Earth. It does not matter your reasoning, your position, your intelligence level, your experience, your history, anything. You are SCUM.

 

It makes me sick.  Now we have to hear about each SPORT one at a time to come out.  We already know about women sports!~  I don't want to hear about Gay anything.  they already have equal domestic rights.  Why make marriage between a man and a woman weird too.  Why make gay and Lesbian partnerships "normal" when it is not.
Weirdos''''.

Well, that's your opinion on their love. Yes, I agree, it is their love and affection, and we can't change that:

BUT: When they continuously neglect to accept that the U.S can't tolerate their Gay Marriage protests and shit at this time of bad economy and political unrest (What with Obama and crap), then it gets irritating and we have a right to say "NO, YOU CAN'T HAVE THAT." It's like talking to a little child. "NO, YOU CAN'T" and then they go and throw temper tantrums and call prejudice (just like African Americans call racist and Muslims call ALLAH ACK-BAH)

When will they realize no is no?

Well, I will venture. The issue for many of us is who is it that defines what marriage is? We believe God already did that a long time ago. If you wish to take it up with God, so be it. You certainly have every right to complain to Him if you wish. So for those of us who believe in God, the issue is already settled my friend.

I respect your beliefs, but those are YOUR beliefs. Not ours. I don't see a God, I don't hear a God, so let's keep our discussions about who should have rights in America between the people and someone we can see and hear. You can pray to God about the disgrace in America at night.

[Ladystardust24]

Why?

Because there is a separation of church and state.

There are other countries that provide civil unions for EVERYONE. Regardless whether they are LGBTA or straight. Their civil unions, give them the same rights as marriage does in this country. Civil unions here do not give you the same rights. You cannot visit your loved one. For some of us. that's a big issue. It's important that if we are sick, our partner has a right to carry out our wishes.

Saying gay people throw tantrums wanting marriage, is on par with someone telling you. "You've been denied a transplant here. Why are you still bitching?"

There are hospitals that will deny you a transplant, for whatever reason they believe. And to them, that reason is completely valid. And you cannot do anything to change that team's mind.

Ideally, we'd all be able to get transplants, to live our lives, free. To be treated human. To live life, to love. To have our human rights intact.

[Hemodoc]

Dear iKAZ3D,

Sorry, my friend, you are new here to IHD. The owner and originator of IHD was known as EPOMAN. He enjoyed discussion controversial issues and he believed in God and the Bible. Look up some of his old threads and you will that plainly. This is in an off topic section where all issues are allowed. I didn't discuss "rights" only the definition of marriage. If folks wish to petition the government to recognize their relationships and get Federal status, that is up to them to go about it through legitimate political means. That is the American way.

However, I will speak my opinion here and elsewhere, not only at night my friend. That was EPOMAN's wishes God rest his soul. Time for you to go back and and learn who EPOMAN truly was and then know and understand he supported and defended God and the Bible on this forum. That is the history of IHD. That is part of EPOMAN's legacy.

[iKAZ3D]

Why?

Because there is a separation of church and state.

There are other countries that provide civil unions for EVERYONE. Regardless whether they are LGBTA or straight. Their civil unions, give them the same rights as marriage does in this country. Civil unions here do not give you the same rights. You cannot visit your loved one. For some of us. that's a big issue. It's important that if we are sick, our partner has a right to carry out our wishes.

Saying gay people throw tantrums wanting marriage, is on par with someone telling you. "You've been denied a transplant here. Why are you still bitching?"

There are hospitals that will deny you a transplant, for whatever reason they believe. And to them, that reason is completely valid. And you cannot do anything to change that team's mind.

Ideally, we'd all be able to get transplants, to live our lives, free. To be treated human. To live life, to love. To have our human rights intact.

I'm sorry, did you just try to draw a parallel between being DENIED a Kidney Transplant (which means unknown time on Dialysis which leads to sickness and eventually Death)


and...

Gays being told they can't get marriage rights?

My brain hurts...I never thought I'd find such ignorance on iHateDIALYSIS.com...


















*whispering to my brain*

Dialysis-gay-dialysis-gay-dialysis-gay-dialysis-gay-dialysis-gay
Dialysis...IS gay?

 

[iKAZ3D]

Dear iKAZ3D,

Sorry, my friend, you are new here to IHD. The owner and originator of IHD was known as EPOMAN. He enjoyed discussion controversial issues and he believed in God and the Bible. Look up some of his old threads and you will that plainly. This is in an off topic section where all issues are allowed. I didn't discuss "rights" only the definition of marriage. If folks wish to petition the government to recognize their relationships and get Federal status, that is up to them to go about it through legitimate political means. That is the American way.

However, I will speak my opinion here and elsewhere, not only at night my friend. That was EPOMAN's wishes God rest his soul. Time for you to go back and and learn who EPOMAN truly was and then know and understand he supported and defended God and the Bible on this forum. That is the history of IHD. That is part of EPOMAN's legacy.

I learned who Epoman was. He was a great guy for creating this site.

But I'll say the same thing for Christianity that I do for Judaism and Islam and every other religion...

Keep. It. Private.

You never know what someone's religion is.

Separation of Church & State

[Hemodoc]

Why?

Because there is a separation of church and state.

There are other countries that provide civil unions for EVERYONE. Regardless whether they are LGBTA or straight. Their civil unions, give them the same rights as marriage does in this country. Civil unions here do not give you the same rights. You cannot visit your loved one. For some of us. that's a big issue. It's important that if we are sick, our partner has a right to carry out our wishes.

Saying gay people throw tantrums wanting marriage, is on par with someone telling you. "You've been denied a transplant here. Why are you still bitching?"

There are hospitals that will deny you a transplant, for whatever reason they believe. And to them, that reason is completely valid. And you cannot do anything to change that team's mind.

Ideally, we'd all be able to get transplants, to live our lives, free. To be treated human. To live life, to love. To have our human rights intact.

I spent twenty years as a physician and had "gay couples" that were my patients both in the clinic and in hospitals. Not sure why folks state that gay partners are not allowed to visit, never saw it in all the years I was in practice. If you are concerned about that, give your partner durable power of attorney for medical care and legally they will not have anything to worry about. Your fears I don't believe are well founded. It only takes a few minutes to fill out a durable power of attorney and have a notary seal attached. I have already done that with my wife and myself. That is simply prudent. So, if that is concern, that is the legal way to establish your wishes and that applies to everyone, not just gay or straight. That is the method to achieve your wishes.

If you want to live like a human, go do it. I am not stopping you. But I disagree with your choice personally, but you are free to make your own decisions on how you live your life.

If you wish to redefine marriage, then I would recommend discussing that with God who defined it already. As far as civil unions and state and Federal rights, take it up with the government. That is the American way.

[Hemodoc]

Dear iKAZ3D,

Sorry, my friend, you are new here to IHD. The owner and originator of IHD was known as EPOMAN. He enjoyed discussion controversial issues and he believed in God and the Bible. Look up some of his old threads and you will that plainly. This is in an off topic section where all issues are allowed. I didn't discuss "rights" only the definition of marriage. If folks wish to petition the government to recognize their relationships and get Federal status, that is up to them to go about it through legitimate political means. That is the American way.

However, I will speak my opinion here and elsewhere, not only at night my friend. That was EPOMAN's wishes God rest his soul. Time for you to go back and and learn who EPOMAN truly was and then know and understand he supported and defended God and the Bible on this forum. That is the history of IHD. That is part of EPOMAN's legacy.

I learned who Epoman was. He was a great guy for creating this site.

But I'll say the same thing for Christianity that I do for Judaism and Islam and every other religion...

Keep. It. Private.

You never know what someone's religion is.

Separation of Church & State

Ahhhh, separation of church and state. Well, this may be a bit of fun. Am I the government? Is IHD government owned?

Keep it private. Well, IHD is a public forum where EPOMAN enjoyed discussing religion. Sorry, my friend, but I don't believe you set the rules here at IHD.

In any case, I believe you don't understand the concept of separation of church and state. Not surprising since that is not taught accurately in public schools any longer. In case you are interested, the history of separation of church and state is of Baptist origin by the founder of the state of Rhode Island, Roger Williams in reaction to the state sanctioned religions in Europe.

The prohibition was against establishing a religion at the Federal level. The 1st amendment was not incorporated into the 14th amendment to apply to state and local governments until the 20th century.

I believe your statement conveys a view of "freedom FROM religion" not freedom of religion which is what the 1st amendment is all about.

But in any case, religious views and opinions are not banned on IHD for your information.

[Emerson Burick]

The issue for many of us is who is it that defines what marriage is? We believe God already did that a long time ago. If you wish to take it up with God, so be it. You certainly have every right to complain to Him if you wish. So for those of us who believe in God, the issue is already settled my friend.

That's fine, but whose interpretation of God would that one be? Are you really sure that whatever religion you hold dear is absolutely the correct one? Has it ever changed its policies or politics over the years? Has it ever had a schism over some fine point? If so, which version was correct, and can you prove it or just take it as an article of faith?

Marriage is both a sacred and secular institution. It may be blessed by your version of an almighty, but it also has to follow the rules of the state. Since I'm betting your version of religion doesn't see eye-to-eye with every other version of religion (or lack or religion), the only thing we all can agree on the secular stuff. That's how America works. You're free to believe whatever you want and I'm free to believe whatever I want, and together we manage to muddle along through the week because we still agree about most things. Like, y'know, we both hate dialysis.

If you don't want gay people to be married within the rules of your church, that's fine. You don't have to let them in. But you can't then deny them the same freedom you have when they're outside of your church. When it comes time to the real world of contracts, law, and money, the name of the name is called rights and responsibilities. Every American citizen deserves equal rights under the law, it's as simple as that. If you're going to live in a civilization which is funded, in part, by the labor, ingenuity, and taxes of gay people, you owe them the right to get married.

[iKAZ3D]

Dear iKAZ3D,

Sorry, my friend, you are new here to IHD. The owner and originator of IHD was known as EPOMAN. He enjoyed discussion controversial issues and he believed in God and the Bible. Look up some of his old threads and you will that plainly. This is in an off topic section where all issues are allowed. I didn't discuss "rights" only the definition of marriage. If folks wish to petition the government to recognize their relationships and get Federal status, that is up to them to go about it through legitimate political means. That is the American way.

However, I will speak my opinion here and elsewhere, not only at night my friend. That was EPOMAN's wishes God rest his soul. Time for you to go back and and learn who EPOMAN truly was and then know and understand he supported and defended God and the Bible on this forum. That is the history of IHD. That is part of EPOMAN's legacy.

I learned who Epoman was. He was a great guy for creating this site.

But I'll say the same thing for Christianity that I do for Judaism and Islam and every other religion...

Keep. It. Private.

You never know what someone's religion is.

Separation of Church & State

Ahhhh, separation of church and state. Well, this may be a bit of fun. Am I the government? Is IHD government owned?

Keep it private. Well, IHD is a public forum where EPOMAN enjoyed discussing religion. Sorry, my friend, but I don't believe you set the rules here at IHD.

In any case, I believe you don't understand the concept of separation of church and state. Not surprising since that is not taught accurately in public schools any longer. In case you are interested, the history of separation of church and state is of Baptist origin by the founder of the state of Rhode Island, Roger Williams in reaction to the state sanctioned religions in Europe.

The prohibition was against establishing a religion at the Federal level. The 1st amendment was not incorporated into the 14th amendment to apply to state and local governments until the 20th century.

I believe your statement conveys a view of "freedom FROM religion" not freedom of religion which is what the 1st amendment is all about.

But in any case, religious views and opinions are not banned on IHD for your information.

I meant to clarify "in public". But even on forums, you should intend to keep your religious views out of your ideas, responses, and viewpoints. Just as somebody finds it offensive if you disown their religion, I find it offensive if you "I'm praying for you" when I know damn well that's done nothing and will do nothing. So who doesn't have to live with the offenses? Or should we just cut out the things that offend us i.e religion. Keep it at home with your loved ones and in your mind while on the forum and no one gets offended. Remove a variable from an equation and you no longer can solve the equation because that piece is gone. Is doesn't happen.

The piece is religion for both sides, whether a strong believer or a disbeliever.

Cut out: Religion

And you have: Discussions without offense...

Other than insults laid by the third party.



And Separation of Church & State means exactly what it sounds like. Separate Church from ... State. As opposed to 14th Century Europe when the Holy Roman Catholic Church WAS the Government.

That was ruled unfair for the well being of all.

[Ladystardust24]

yes, I did.

Bioethics operates on the same level as religion does.
 
Most people here are aware of the history behind transplantation and dialysis. Life committees, and cherry picking when it comes to transplantation. Many here have endured unfair denial to transplant, because of an arbitrary reasons. Want another similarity? Ethic boards who decide on transplants, believe you can live on dialysis. That it's not ideal, but it's doable. 

So for comparison value to the topic at hand: Dialysis is a civil union. You're not dead, you still get to live. So, you just shut up, and be happy you're not dead. Transplant is like marriage. To an ethics board, they decide that you don't deserve that right, that you live just fine and dandy on dialysis. You don't need those extra things you get with a transplant.

Obviously, many of us anger at that thought. Who are these people to decide what is good for us? What is good enough for us? No one can decide that for us, except ourselves. Many but not all, agree. Transplant is a better and provides quality of life you miss out on dialysis.

The comparison? It feels shitty. You are not treated as a human being. And that in itself, feels shitty and is truly unethical.

I've had people tell me they are bothered how much I talk about healthcare, or how serious kidney disease is. They don't want to hear about illness/disease. They'd rather we just shut up. It's not their problem. So they don't care. It doesn't matter, because it doesn't effect you. Why should it?


If you hate ignorance of people who do not understand what it's like to need a transplant and it bothers you. You have some basic understanding of oppression.What it feels like to be treated like you don't matter, your human rights don't matter. Get that basic understanding down, and you can empathize with other groups that are told to shut up and take it.

 
Struggle is struggle.

 

Also, note that the religion you speak of is Christianity. Not all of us here are Christians. Assuming that, is pretty silly. For the record, I'm not against religion. I am however against the assumption that everyone is Christian. Not all of us are.

[Hemodoc]

The issue for many of us is who is it that defines what marriage is? We believe God already did that a long time ago. If you wish to take it up with God, so be it. You certainly have every right to complain to Him if you wish. So for those of us who believe in God, the issue is already settled my friend.

That's fine, but whose interpretation of God would that one be? Are you really sure that whatever religion you hold dear is absolutely the correct one? Has it ever changed its policies or politics over the years? Has it ever had a schism over some fine point? If so, which version was correct, and can you prove it or just take it as an article of faith?

Marriage is both a sacred and secular institution. It may be blessed by your version of an almighty, but it also has to follow the rules of the state. Since I'm betting your version of religion doesn't see eye-to-eye with every other version of religion (or lack or religion), the only thing we all can agree on the secular stuff. That's how America works. You're free to believe whatever you want and I'm free to believe whatever I want, and together we manage to muddle along through the week because we still agree about most things. Like, y'know, we both hate dialysis.

If you don't want gay people to be married within the rules of your church, that's fine. You don't have to let them in. But you can't then deny them the same freedom you have when they're outside of your church. When it comes time to the real world of contracts, law, and money, the name of the name is called rights and responsibilities. Every American citizen deserves equal rights under the law, it's as simple as that. If you're going to live in a civilization which is funded, in part, by the labor, ingenuity, and taxes of gay people, you owe them the right to get married.

Never stated I would deny anyone do what ever they wish. I do believe that there are consequences for our actions and that we will all stand before God Almighty. He states that there is no other god and I believe that.

Now, let's take it a step further. If you define gay rights as a civil right and no discrimination against that civil right, then yes, churches that refuse to marry gay couples could be prosecuted or sued for exercising their beliefs. That is the real opposition against redefining marriage. Since most American Christian churches are incorporated in their state, yes, all laws against discrimination if it included gay marriage could force pastors in churches to perform gay marriage against the teaching of the Bible.  So who would be oppressing who my friend?

[Hemodoc]

Dear iKAZ3D,

Sorry, my friend, you are new here to IHD. The owner and originator of IHD was known as EPOMAN. He enjoyed discussion controversial issues and he believed in God and the Bible. Look up some of his old threads and you will that plainly. This is in an off topic section where all issues are allowed. I didn't discuss "rights" only the definition of marriage. If folks wish to petition the government to recognize their relationships and get Federal status, that is up to them to go about it through legitimate political means. That is the American way.

However, I will speak my opinion here and elsewhere, not only at night my friend. That was EPOMAN's wishes God rest his soul. Time for you to go back and and learn who EPOMAN truly was and then know and understand he supported and defended God and the Bible on this forum. That is the history of IHD. That is part of EPOMAN's legacy.

I learned who Epoman was. He was a great guy for creating this site.

But I'll say the same thing for Christianity that I do for Judaism and Islam and every other religion...

Keep. It. Private.

You never know what someone's religion is.

Separation of Church & State

Ahhhh, separation of church and state. Well, this may be a bit of fun. Am I the government? Is IHD government owned?

Keep it private. Well, IHD is a public forum where EPOMAN enjoyed discussing religion. Sorry, my friend, but I don't believe you set the rules here at IHD.

In any case, I believe you don't understand the concept of separation of church and state. Not surprising since that is not taught accurately in public schools any longer. In case you are interested, the history of separation of church and state is of Baptist origin by the founder of the state of Rhode Island, Roger Williams in reaction to the state sanctioned religions in Europe.

The prohibition was against establishing a religion at the Federal level. The 1st amendment was not incorporated into the 14th amendment to apply to state and local governments until the 20th century.

I believe your statement conveys a view of "freedom FROM religion" not freedom of religion which is what the 1st amendment is all about.

But in any case, religious views and opinions are not banned on IHD for your information.

I meant to clarify "in public". But even on forums, you should intend to keep your religious views out of your ideas, responses, and viewpoints. Just as somebody finds it offensive if you disown their religion, I find it offensive if you "I'm praying for you" when I know damn well that's done nothing and will do nothing. So who doesn't have to live with the offenses? Or should we just cut out the things that offend us i.e religion. Keep it at home with your loved ones and in your mind while on the forum and no one gets offended. Remove a variable from an equation and you no longer can solve the equation because that piece is gone. Is doesn't happen.

The piece is religion for both sides, whether a strong believer or a disbeliever.

Cut out: Religion

And you have: Discussions without offense...

Other than insults laid by the third party.



And Separation of Church & State means exactly what it sounds like. Separate Church from ... State. As opposed to 14th Century Europe when the Holy Roman Catholic Church WAS the Government.

That was ruled unfair for the well being of all.

Well, the major opposition to changing the definition of marriage is based on religious ideology. To construe a discussion about gay marriage without considering this is a bit naive.  Separation of church and state is 180 degrees in opposition to the original meaning of keeping the government out of the hands of the church. Today, it is construed as "freedom from religion" which is in a sense what you implied in your first comment about church and state.

So, the question was why would someone oppose gay marriage and I gave my answer. Sorry, that is perfectly acceptable here on IHD.

[cariad]

Not that I come around often. But this is basically why.

Oppression is oppression.

This whole thread shows utter ignorance and stupidity.

What I find ironic? People here want to be treated like human beings? Well what makes us different from animals is ability to empathize. Which you seem to lack. The only thing I see about anti gay. Especially when I see it coming from people who understand what it's like to be treated like you're not even human, is bitterness. 

What's funny, pretty sure everyone here has had to argue with religious based ignorance of why you're sick. (Obviously, because God wanted it that way?)

funny, pretty sure everyone here waiting for a transplant, wouldn't say no or stop their rejection drugs, upon finding out their donor is gay. So, it's only okay if it's good for you. If it agrees with you/benefits you.

I wish you would come around more often, Ladystardust. I absolutely *adore* your posts and would find it so hard to believe that you are so young and have had so many obstacles to overcome, except I've met you. Your writing shows a woman wise waaaaaay beyond her years.

iKAZ, you've complained about your friends (or should I say "friends"?) not wanting to hear about your dialysis issues and accusing you of wittering on about it when you know that you're not doing that. Do you not see the parallel in what you're doing here? You're sick of hearing about gay rights, you say their cause "hinders other causes" (how exactly?) and yet I assume you are not gay yourself so really, you don't have to deal with the lack of equal rights. Your "friends" are not on dialysis and don't have to deal with the nightmarish state of in-centre dialysis in the US, so they are sick of hearing about it. You seem to think the one opinion is fair, while the other is quite cold. 

I'm glad you have a place like IHD to come talk to us when the people in your life treat you like you're a bore for talking about dialysis. We won't tell you that we're sick of hearing about it (well, I suppose it's possible someone will, but hopefully not). Discrimination can absolutely result in death, and it has done in the case of homophobia. The more we can cast homosexuals as some deviant, less-than-human race, the more people will think that it's good fun to find a few and beat the living daylights out of them.

And generalizing that all people who are gay or support gay rights think exactly the same thing about you is not going to endear you to any of us who fall into one of those groups. I take issue with you attributing feelings to me that I don't have.

Actuality, they don't currently have equal rights, which is why your delicate, shell-like ears keep having to hear peoples' complaints.

"delicate, shell-like ears"! 

[frankswife]

I've been following this thread, and wasn't going to put my :twocents in, but I had to when I saw ladystardust equate being denied gay marriage with being denied a transplant: ladystardust, if you cant marry your partner, it wont in any way shape or form possibly kill you. That was a little sickening not to mention dramatic which I think was the point the OP was trying to make, who by the way, sounds like a very intelligent and well spoken young man whom I happen to agree with. YOU don't have to.
y

[gothiclovemonkey]

I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.

1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.

2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time,  because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
   The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...

3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.

4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
 
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.

6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"

Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.

"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"