Boston Tragedy

[lmunchkin]

If it werent so late & my having to go to work tomorrow Riki, I could quote you from the Bible which is the true word of God (which I think you said you believed in) where it is a not right.  You have your beliefs & I respect that, but I have mine too. You think its okay to have man on man or woman on woman, go right ahead with that!  I will certainly not stand in your way or be your judge, but the Bible tells us to love all people but Hate the Sin.  I see it as sin, but what they want to do is their business.  Just as if I disagree is my business! We are given choice to either do the right things or do do wrong things. Its called Will. God gave it to all.  We are the ones who create our own destiny as to either Heaven or Hell.  It is our choice, God really has no part in what we decide to do, right or wrong.

Now Im not going to defend my beliefs to anyone.  They are my believes and mine alone.  Im sure I will have to answer for all things good or bad in my life come Judgement day.  If Im wrong, then I quess It will be revealed for all to see. Can we agree on that Riki?  Can we agree that when Judgement Day comes, God will Judge each & everyone of us according to his Word? 

God Bless,
lmunchkin

P.S. I PM'd you, did you receive it?

[MooseMom]

Please, let's not veer into same-sex marriage territory, OK?  That's just soooooo way off topic!

I think Timothy McVeigh and Osama Bin Laden should still be alive.  Like I've said before, I don't think death is the ultimate punishment.  I believe the ultimate punishment is to be locked away for the rest of your life (which would be decades in the cases of these two plus the surviving Boston bomber), 23 hours a day.  Death is freeing.  Imprisonment for the rest of your days is the ultimate horror.  I would be happy for my tax dollars to be spent this way.

Timothy McVeigh's reasons for his actions went WAY beyond Waco.  I was living abroad at the time of the bombing, so I didn't know all that much about it.  I did a bit of research and as much as I dislike Wikipedia, it does contain the essay that he wrote explaining himself.  A LOT of Americans feel/felt as he did but certainly would never let those feelings translate into such a vile act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

There is a new show on HBO called Vice.  It is about troubled areas of the world.  It's on Friday nights, each episode being 30 minutes long and containing two 15 minute long stories.  In last week's episode, the second story is called "Toxic Iraq".  It is about an American ex-soldier who is campaigning for help for the people of Fallujah.  It seems that a lot of their babies are being born with horrible birth defects that are very unusual.  It seems that during the battle of Fallujah in 2004, the US was using munitions that may have contained depleted uranium.  We may have turned that region into a radioactive nightmare.   To see those newborns and children so hideously deformed, and to suspect that maybe we as a nation caused that horrible suffering...oh God, I was in tears.  To think that we have people right here in this country who are creating weapons that kill people by blasting in such a way that it sucks the air out of a victim's lungs...  How can this great country of ours be responsible for such horror?  So when people suppose that maybe God is punishing us for sins like same sex marriage, do you ever suppose that maybe He is punishing us for what we are doing in the name of "The War on Terror"?  All of you, do try to see this episode.  Just Google "Toxic Iraq HBO" or something like that, and maybe you can see it if you don't subscribe to HBO On Demand.  I was so horrified.  A lot of discontented people in the world must be horrified, too, and are maybe not content with just posting about it on some dialysis website...

It may seem that things have turned crazy over the past 15 years, but does anyone remember the 60's?  Vietnam, Kent State, the assassinations of John F. Kennedy, Robert Kennedy, Martin Luther King, the Cold War (remember bomb drills in school?).  I remember being in grade school and having to evacuate rather frequently because of bomb threats.  Remember segregation and the murder of little girls while they were in church in Alabama?  Wasn't that supposed to be a more "innocent" time?

Things have always been "screwed up".  The Korean War, World War II, the Great Depression, the flu pandemic, WWI, the Civil War, slavery...the list goes on, and that's a fleeting glance just in AMERICAN history.  Looking around the world, we can remember the joys of, say, Biafra, apartheid, Khmer Rouge...again, the list goes on. 

The US government wasn't "tipped off" about the elder brother in any specific way.  Russia asked the FBI to check him out.  He was interviewed, etc, and there was nothing found.  The FBI asked Russia for more information but never received a reply.  Then the Russians asked the same thing of the CIA.  Same scenario.  It seems that once again, these two agencies may be at fault for being too territorial.  I have no doubt that this will be investigated.  The fact that our relationship with Russia has been "chilly" didn't help, I'm sure.

I don't know what really could have been done to prevent this terrible act.  We've seen all of the debate on whether or not any sort of gun control measures could have prevented any of the many mass shootings that have occurred in this country.  I don't quite understand why some people are so hell bent on taking draconian measures to prevent another bombing while at the same time doing nothing to prevent the daily gun violence that happens in this country.

[Poppylicious]

Oh MM, you forgot the IRA! Not being flippant but when I read status updates from American friends which say such stuff as, "Wow, the world has gone insane!" I ALWAYS think of the IRA and growing up in the late seventies and eighties worrying that *that* bin there might contain a bomb.  No, the world hasn't gone insane; it has always been insane.  There have always been crazy people and there will always be crazy people who have/will continue the insaneness of the world.

I am pleased that he is alive, and I hope he stays alive.  I don't agree with the death penalty (we don't have it in the UK) and like MM I'm of the opinion that there is punishment which is more appropriate/harsher than being executed. I say 'pleased' because perhaps we can find out why they did it.  What did America (the country that educated and raised [at least one of] them) do to make them turn on it?  I am hugely interested in the psychological aspect of it and I think that the psychology behind the bombings is a very important avenue which needs exploring.  It's all very well to say that you should throw the book at them, execute them, let them rot in prison, etc. but without knowing why it was done you've learnt nothing.  What makes people do such things?  Is there a particular type of person who does such things?  What do they want to achieve and what do they want to make happen?  Why are they prepared to kill innocent people?  Why are they so angry and how can we, as a society, help them be less angry?  Can we even do that or do some people reach a turning point where we can't help them? What signs should we be looking for?  How can [international] agencies work together more effectively?

Whatever the outcome I hope that the families affected find some peace, at some point.   

[MooseMom]

Oh, I can't believe I didn't mention the IRA!    As you know, I lived in the UK from 1985 to 2003, so I was there during the latter stages of that whole tragedy.  I had a cousin come visit, and we were going to go up to London one day but couldn't because the IRA had bombed Victoria Station.

[lmunchkin]

I really do not have any answer to any of your questions Poppy!  It is true, the world has always had nut jobs in it. But it seems more frequent than ever before.  I know if it was done to my family members with the intent to kill, you better believe I will seek the Death Penalty for the perpetrator (?).

I understand that others have different views, that is the one great thing this country provides.  And Yes, MM, I love you too & you know that!  And as you said,  we do not always agree on practically anything!  Respect between us will ALWAYS be there.  You were the first person to make me feel like I was a part of a Big Picture! 

MM, I did not bring up the "Gay marriage thing" at all. I was responding & giving my beliefs on it! I would prefer it not be brought up myself, because of my beliefs.

I know that this terrorist act in Boston was tragic & so unnecessary.  Where I live, I pray it never happens here. I have guns, always have had them.  I was raised around them all my life. That being said, I will not go into the types of rifles or pistols we possess. We have some in other places, but do have a few within our home.  I assure you, I will not harm a flea with them.  We use them for occasional hunting (which I havent hunted in years) and of course, protection.  If someone were to break into my home for intent to steal, harm or anything without "friendly" intentions, I will shoot them.  Not being all bad or anything, just a natural motherly loving person protecting her loved ones. John is the same way.  I will promise you, we will not shoot to wound or mangle people either. They will not have to go through the trouble of explaining everything or give excuses as to why they violated in the first place. They will never get another chance to do "their thing" to another innocent victim. Yes, Iam a Christian & will kill another with evil ententions.  Better them, than I!  I want peace all over the world, but that will not happen until the End.

Anyone who knows me will tell you Iam an upright individual. Not perfect, but I try to be as good as possible.  But I don't play when it comes to family & friends.  I have your back, when others won't.  I don't go around looking for a fight, but won't lay down to one either. 

Im curious as all get out, as to why they did it, but why some feel they should not be put to death?  They took the lives of people they never knew or came across.  These people did not cause "whatever" to them.  They are no different than Tim McVey or Casey or any other mass murderer that have been put to death.  Talk about Hate Crimes, to me, that is the ultimate Hate crime.  Just kill people to be killing?  Come on now! Really? These innocent people who were killed, will never see their family's again.  To watch them grow, have get togethers with loved ones.  They are Dead now & all because of insanity.  Someone got inspiration from a Jihadist film where killing is a "trophy" and a "Right".  You will get an award of 70 virgins when you die? Really?  If that were true, don't you think every man would be dead but one, who would probably commit suicide.  Be real people!

Yea find out all you can, sure!  We probably need to find out for the love of God, why this happened, and can we prevent it in the future.  But there is always (as Poppy said) some messed up individual/s, wanting to bring attention or to be memorable in some sick way!  It is sad, very sad!  I don't have all the answers, but pray that everyone come to know the Ultimate Sacrifice of Christ Jesus.  He Is The Way to Heaven!  (Now that is not to offend, it is to keep my spirits lifted only, cause I need Him continously. Just mentioning the name of Jesus- gives this gal HOPE)

At the end of the day, I just feel for Bostonians.  It is so very Sad.

God Bless,
lmunchkin

[Hemodoc]

I really do not have any answer to any of your questions Poppy!  It is true, the world has always had nut jobs in it. But it seems more frequent than ever before.  I know if it was done to my family members with the intent to kill, you better believe I will seek the Death Penalty for the perpetrator (?).

I understand that others have different views, that is the one great thing this country provides.  And Yes, MM, I love you too & you know that!  And as you said,  we do not always agree on practically anything!  Respect between us will ALWAYS be there.  You were the first person to make me feel like I was a part of a Big Picture! 

MM, I did not bring up the "Gay marriage thing" at all. I was responding & giving my beliefs on it! I would prefer it not be brought up myself, because of my beliefs.

I know that this terrorist act in Boston was tragic & so unnecessary.  Where I live, I pray it never happens here. I have guns, always have had them.  I was raised around them all my life. That being said, I will not go into the types of rifles or pistols we possess. We have some in other places, but do have a few within our home.  I assure you, I will not harm a flea with them.  We use them for occasional hunting (which I havent hunted in years) and of course, protection.  If someone were to break into my home for intent to steal, harm or anything without "friendly" intentions, I will shoot them.  Not being all bad or anything, just a natural motherly loving person protecting her loved ones. John is the same way.  I will promise you, we will not shoot to wound or mangle people either. They will not have to go through the trouble of explaining everything or give excuses as to why they violated in the first place. They will never get another chance to do "their thing" to another innocent victim. Yes, Iam a Christian & will kill another with evil ententions.  Better them, than I!  I want peace all over the world, but that will not happen until the End.

Anyone who knows me will tell you Iam an upright individual. Not perfect, but I try to be as good as possible.  But I don't play when it comes to family & friends.  I have your back, when others won't.  I don't go around looking for a fight, but won't lay down to one either. 

Im curious as all get out, as to why they did it, but why some feel they should not be put to death?  They took the lives of people they never knew or came across.  These people did not cause "whatever" to them.  They are no different than Tim McVey or Casey or any other mass murderer that have been put to death.  Talk about Hate Crimes, to me, that is the ultimate Hate crime.  Just kill people to be killing?  Come on now! Really? These innocent people who were killed, will never see their family's again.  To watch them grow, have get togethers with loved ones.  They are Dead now & all because of insanity.  Someone got inspiration from a Jihadist film where killing is a "trophy" and a "Right".  You will get an award of 70 virgins when you die? Really?  If that were true, don't you think every man would be dead but one, who would probably commit suicide.  Be real people!

Yea find out all you can, sure!  We probably need to find out for the love of God, why this happened, and can we prevent it in the future.  But there is always (as Poppy said) some messed up individual/s, wanting to bring attention or to be memorable in some sick way!  It is sad, very sad!  I don't have all the answers, but pray that everyone come to know the Ultimate Sacrifice of Christ Jesus.  He Is The Way to Heaven!  (Now that is not to offend, it is to keep my spirits lifted only, cause I need Him continously. Just mentioning the name of Jesus- gives this gal HOPE)

At the end of the day, I just feel for Bostonians.  It is so very Sad.

God Bless,
lmunchkin

Dear lmunchkin,

Just to add a bit to what you have said. The Bible states very directly that the reason for the death penalty is to rid the land of evil. Today, with the abundance of appeals, it can be decades before the death penalty is actually carried out in individual cases.  Yet, for anyone that has actually gone into maximum security prisons, you learn very quickly that folks even on death row are ordering hits on other inmates and even rival gang members outside of prison.

I personally don't support the death penalty except in cases where the evidence is incontrovertible of guilt. That is due to the hundreds of inmates who have been cleared of crimes for which they got the death penalty after reevaluating the evidence with DNA testing. However, there are certain cases where the most appropriate punishment is the death penalty.

Self defense, yes that is a right of all people as well. I take it one step further. I have security gates on my doors and strategic bars on a couple of our windows and then ACE security glass on all of the remaining windows.  Here in CA, in the last few years, smash and grab robberies have sky rocketed. I made it very difficult for the average punk kid to be able to get into my home in part because I would never want the chance of taking a teenage kids life should they invade our home. I figure that as difficult as it would be to get inside my home, anyone capable of doing that is likely very dangerous. To date, by the grace of God, we have not had any attempted robberies. Many of our neighbors who have not taken the same precautions have already fallen victim. Since the police have no constitutional duty to protect, I figure that is my job to provide that for my family.

[lmunchkin]

Well Doc, not all of us are capable of having Layers of Protection placed around us. Washington has Private Security officers around them for protection (kind a funny that they don't want ordinary citizens to have guns for protection) and you have your gates & Ace Securtiy glass. I think that is great & sounds like you have your bases covered, considering the high crime rate in that area.  But I can't afford that now.  Hope to one day, but just can't.

If a teenager breaks into our home, Doc, I will know if he poses a threat.  I will observe every aspect of him/her.  Iam diligent in my observation.  He/She has a gun, they are going down, period. And if its more than one, hey, what do you want me to do?

Like I said, Im harmless, but nobody will violate me or mine and live to tell about it.  Im in the retail business, so Iam experienced at looking down the end of a barrell.  I was not allowed to carry a gun on premises.  I found no comfort in the feeling of near death.  In both cases, I was able to keep cool, and they better consider themselves lucky.  They got away.  To this day, they have never been caught.  Then the 3rd time I was robbed, it was by Knife.  I had my back to the door (1st mistake) and that young man jumped that counter and had that knife at my throat.  That scared me more than the guns ever did.  I looked at my boss with tears, and he knew he had lost me for good.

To this day, he comes into where I work and tells all what "Kahooneys" I have.  Yea right?  I was scared to death!  Ive been very lucky so far where I work.  Nothing like that has happened.  Im mainly on the floor or sometimes at the register, but we have alot of people that work all the time & maybe that has been our protection from theives.  Had I been allowed to have a gun, I could have protected myself.

God Bless & Good Night,
lmunchkin

[Hemodoc]

Well Doc, not all of us are capable of having Layers of Protection placed around us. Washington has Private Security officers around them for protection (kind a funny that they don't want ordinary citizens to have guns for protection) and you have your gates & Ace Securtiy glass. I think that is great & sounds like you have your bases covered, considering the high crime rate in that area.  But I can't afford that now.  Hope to one day, but just can't.

If a teenager breaks into our home, Doc, I will know if he poses a threat.  I will observe every aspect of him/her.  Iam diligent in my observation.  He/She has a gun, they are going down, period. And if its more than one, hey, what do you want me to do?

Like I said, Im harmless, but nobody will violate me or mine and live to tell about it.  Im in the retail business, so Iam experienced at looking down the end of a barrell.  I was not allowed to carry a gun on premises.  I found no comfort in the feeling of near death.  In both cases, I was able to keep cool, and they better consider themselves lucky.  They got away.  To this day, they have never been caught.  Then the 3rd time I was robbed, it was by Knife.  I had my back to the door (1st mistake) and that young man jumped that counter and had that knife at my throat.  That scared me more than the guns ever did.  I looked at my boss with tears, and he knew he had lost me for good.

To this day, he comes into where I work and tells all what "Kahooneys" I have.  Yea right?  I was scared to death!  Ive been very lucky so far where I work.  Nothing like that has happened.  Im mainly on the floor or sometimes at the register, but we have alot of people that work all the time & maybe that has been our protection from theives.  Had I been allowed to have a gun, I could have protected myself.

God Bless & Good Night,
lmunchkin

The ACE security glass is fairly affordible.  It was about $2500 for about 2/3rds of the windows on our house.

There are quite a few things you can do yhat is very inexpensive such as external lights. Also, posting an alarm service sign also lowers how attractive your property is to these cree\ps.  Lastly, you can get a door jam that is very effective.  Lots of simple things to keep smash and grab creeps away.

http://www.amazon.com/Buddybar-10311-Door-Jammer/dp/B002BQ4VBU

[dublin]

I'm glad they didn't kill him because now we have the chance to get information from him.

Maybe Jesus saved him for a reason.

Na not saved for a reason everyone else will feel it except the p*ckers that do this crime

[Poppylicious]

I really do not have any answer to any of your questions Poppy!  It is true, the world has always had nut jobs in it. But it seems more frequent than ever before.  I know if it was done to my family members with the intent to kill, you better believe I will seek the Death Penalty for the perpetrator (?).

I think that was partly the point I was trying to get across though; it isn't any more frequent than it ever has been.  It might just seem that way, either because it's more likely to happen in the USA now than previously, or because of the Internet/other technology and the way that we get news so instantly these days. Terrorism was part of my childhood, but I wonder if people in other parts of the world knew how much it affected the UK (which probably wasn't a lot, but we knew there were possibilities and threats, and it was on the news a lot  .)

To be honest I doubt there will ever be answers to those questions I posed because there are too many variables, but it would be nice if there were and we stumbled upon them, thus packaging everything up with a tasteful pink ribbon and putting the world to rights, eh?!

[Simon Dog]

Had I been allowed to have a gun, I could have protected myself.

In the retail business, it's cheaper to replace an employee who is killed by a hold up person than to pay for the inevitable litigation if the employee shoots a criminal.  Once you allow an employee to be armed,  especially in a business where contingency fee counsel can show the "prevailing standard" is "no guns", any use of the gun can be seen as acting "on behalf of the employer".   And that's before you get into questions like "what sort of training and qualification program did you have for your armed employees?".    Criminals know that robbing an independent shop can provoke and armed response, but robbing a store that is part of a national chain will be met with sheep like bleeting.

[Hemodoc]

I really do not have any answer to any of your questions Poppy!  It is true, the world has always had nut jobs in it. But it seems more frequent than ever before.  I know if it was done to my family members with the intent to kill, you better believe I will seek the Death Penalty for the perpetrator (?).

I think that was partly the point I was trying to get across though; it isn't any more frequent than it ever has been.  It might just seem that way, either because it's more likely to happen in the USA now than previously, or because of the Internet/other technology and the way that we get news so instantly these days. Terrorism was part of my childhood, but I wonder if people in other parts of the world knew how much it affected the UK (which probably wasn't a lot, but we knew there were possibilities and threats, and it was on the news a lot  .)

To be honest I doubt there will ever be answers to those questions I posed because there are too many variables, but it would be nice if there were and we stumbled upon them, thus packaging everything up with a tasteful pink ribbon and putting the world to rights, eh?!

Actually, the surviving suspect already answered your question, he was motivated by his Islamic religion:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/22/17860373-officials-hospitalized-bombing-suspect-says-he-and-brother-acted-alone-motivated-by-religion?lite

His mother praised Allah:

“If they are going to kill him. I don’t care. My oldest son is killed, so I don’t care. I don’t care if my youngest son is going to be killed today. I want the world to hear this. And, I don’t care if I am going to get killed too. And I will say Allahu Akbar!“

And lastly, muslims around the world celebrated their actions just as they did when the Twin Towers fell down.

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/T6L75KD1UH3V9KN51

So the why of why they did it is already self evident by the suspects own admission, supported by his mothers statements and the reaction of many in the Muslim community, albeit, not all.

[Hemodoc]

Had I been allowed to have a gun, I could have protected myself.

In the retail business, it's cheaper to replace an employee who is killed by a hold up person than to pay for the inevitable litigation if the employee shoots a criminal.  Once you allow an employee to be armed,  especially in a business where contingency fee counsel can show the "prevailing standard" is "no guns", any use of the gun can be seen as acting "on behalf of the employer".   And that's before you get into questions like "what sort of training and qualification program did you have for your armed employees?".    Criminals know that robbing an independent shop can provoke and armed response, but robbing a store that is part of a national chain will be met with sheep like bleeting.

So true. But in many states, folks are armed and would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I would suspect that Texas is a state where you can't assume that company policies will outweigh peoples personal conviction to be able to defend themselves where ever they are or work. The gun free zones are open invitations to the criminals. Sadly, the economics of losing an employee is just as you have stated.

[Simon Dog]

Sadly, the economics of losing an employee is just as you have stated.

It transcends that, and is about career preservation.

No HR person is going to lose their job because (s)he instituted a "no guns" policy and someone got killed on the job.

On the other hand, the half life of the career of an HR executive who issued a "guns allowed" policy that resulted in a "bad shoot" by an employee would be measured in days, or perhaps even hours.

[Hemodoc]

Sadly, the economics of losing an employee is just as you have stated.

It transcends that, and is about career preservation.

No HR person is going to lose their job because (s)he instituted a "no guns" policy and someone got killed on the job.

On the other hand, the half life of the career of an HR executive who issued a "guns allowed" policy that resulted in a "bad shoot" by an employee would be measured in days, or perhaps even hours.

True enough. I have never been on that side of the HR business, but I have talked with several folks for instance who worked security and were not allowed to carry by their company but did anyway for personal protection. Sadly, you hear of people such as at 7-11 killed all the time. That is not a job I would let one of my kids or grandkids ever take.

[Riki]

And lastly, muslims around the world celebrated their actions just as they did when the Twin Towers fell down.

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/T6L75KD1UH3V9KN51

So the why of why they did it is already self evident by the suspects own admission, supported by his mothers statements and the reaction of many in the Muslim community, albeit, not all.

I don't know if I'd trust a story coming from a site called JihadWatch.com.. *LOL*

Not all Muslims are anti-American.  It was Muslims who tipped off the RCMP about the plot to blow up the train between New York and Toronto, an Imam, no less.  There are fundamentalists in all religions, not just Islam.  Those are the ones who believe that those who are not like them and have a different belief system are wrong, and are going to Hell.  Not all fundamentalists kill people either.  I don't think any one group should be painted with the same brush because of a few that go off the deep end.

[Hemodoc]

And lastly, muslims around the world celebrated their actions just as they did when the Twin Towers fell down.

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/T6L75KD1UH3V9KN51

So the why of why they did it is already self evident by the suspects own admission, supported by his mothers statements and the reaction of many in the Muslim community, albeit, not all.

I don't know if I'd trust a story coming from a site called JihadWatch.com.. *LOL*

Not all Muslims are anti-American.  It was Muslims who tipped off the RCMP about the plot to blow up the train between New York and Toronto, an Imam, no less.  There are fundamentalists in all religions, not just Islam.  Those are the ones who believe that those who are not like them and have a different belief system are wrong, and are going to Hell.  Not all fundamentalists kill people either.  I don't think any one group should be painted with the same brush because of a few that go off the deep end.

Never said they were, as per my comment, ". . . many in the Muslim community, albeit, not all."

Actually, there are SEVERAL overseas news sites reporting this. Here is one from Israel with reports directly from Gaza.  Not surprising that many US "news" organizations didn't.

http://www.israelnewsagency.com/bostonmarathonterrorattackpalestiniansdancingcandygazaobamahamasislamicjihadhezbollahiran48041513.html

In addition, it appears you are over looking the suspect's own comments AND his mother's inflammatory news conference in essence taking my comments out of context. To ignore the concerted efforts of many who are motivated by their religion is to not face the reality of those within the Muslim community who have dedicated great effort in multiple attacks against America and American interests for decades. This is just one more to add to the growing list.

In addition, the Russians revealed why they notified the US about this family. It was due to a conversation between the dead suspect and his mother speaking about Jihad.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/04/28/tamerlan_tsarnaev_boston_bombing_suspect_discussed_jihad_with_his_mother.html

Let's not ignore the facts as reported in multiple news outlets.

[MooseMom]

Hemodoc, I want to make sure that I am not misunderstanding you as I am not sure just what your point is.

How do you define "the Muslim community"?

How do you quantify "many"?

It is estimated that there are over 1.6 BILLION Muslims in the world today.  Are you saying that, say, 6 million were celebrating in the streets that the Boston Marathon was bombed?  I mean, 6 million out of 1.6 billion is "many", and I'd wager that if 6 million Muslims were dancing in the streets, even US media outlets couldn't ignore THAT.  And Fox News would be celebrating the celebrating!

Why would you trust the Israeli media?  It is their best interest to show Americans (and themselves) how devilish Muslims are. 

I don't doubt that there have been failed attempts by disaffected Islamists to attack targets in the West, but frankly, considering our drone attacks, uranium enriched weaponry, Guantanamo, Abu Grahb (sp?) and other actions by our military/government, we really can't be too surprised that there are Muslims who think we are attacking them.  Just as you feel that Americans are trying to destroy Christianity and are out to persecute Christians, maybe they feel that we're at war with their faith, too.  Not saying that as an excuse, but it might be wise to examine the consequences of our actions.

So these bombers and their freakish mother acted out of their recently radicalized faith.  So what?  People do awful things for all sorts of reasons.  These young men killed 3 people.  Over 30,000 people die each year from gunshot wounds, but we just shrug and do nothing.  Why should this be any different?  Why are we more afraid of Muslim radicals than of the guy next door who owns guns and might have a really bad day?

[Hemodoc]

Hemodoc, I want to make sure that I am not misunderstanding you as I am not sure just what your point is.

How do you define "the Muslim community"?

How do you quantify "many"?

It is estimated that there are over 1.6 BILLION Muslims in the world today.  Are you saying that, say, 6 million were celebrating in the streets that the Boston Marathon was bombed?  I mean, 6 million out of 1.6 billion is "many", and I'd wager that if 6 million Muslims were dancing in the streets, even US media outlets couldn't ignore THAT.  And Fox News would be celebrating the celebrating!

Why would you trust the Israeli media?  It is their best interest to show Americans (and themselves) how devilish Muslims are. 

I don't doubt that there have been failed attempts by disaffected Islamists to attack targets in the West, but frankly, considering our drone attacks, uranium enriched weaponry, Guantanamo, Abu Grahb (sp?) and other actions by our military/government, we really can't be too surprised that there are Muslims who think we are attacking them.  Just as you feel that Americans are trying to destroy Christianity and are out to persecute Christians, maybe they feel that we're at war with their faith, too.  Not saying that as an excuse, but it might be wise to examine the consequences of our actions.

So these bombers and their freakish mother acted out of their recently radicalized faith.  So what?  People do awful things for all sorts of reasons.  These young men killed 3 people.  Over 30,000 people die each year from gunshot wounds, but we just shrug and do nothing.  Why should this be any different?  Why are we more afraid of Muslim radicals than of the guy next door who owns guns and might have a really bad day?

Dear Moosemom,

First, let's get the quote from me correct once again: " . . . within the Muslim community who have dedicated great effort in multiple attacks against America and American interests for decades."

That is a subset of the "muslim community" qualified by those attacking America.

The topic was the Boston Bomber, I have kept to that topic framework and used direct quotes. Nothing more to discuss if that does not speak for itself. The question was, what motivated them to do the deed that they did. The second suspect and his mother have answered that in the record. There are also multiple news sites reporting celebration in the streets.  If you wish to disagree with the reports, that is certainly your prerogative. Is it really news that Al Qaeda and other "jihadist" organizations do seek these types of actions?

[Hemodoc]

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[MooseMom]

Thank you for the clarification of what you meant by "Muslim community".  See?  This is why I asked. 

We all know that "direct quotes" can lack context.

I enjoy looking at online editions of many foreign papers, and I didn't see any mention of celebrations in the streets throughout the Muslim world.  I wouldn't be surprised if there WERE some people dancing about in glee, probably some Taliban bozos living in caves, but I suspect you are engaging in a bit of hyperbole.  And what makes me suspicious is the fact that there are many bloggers here in America who would LOVE to make all Muslims the enemy and would have jumped at the chance to share this "evidence" with all like-minded Americans.  Which other credible news organizations reported such wild celebrations?

No, it's no news that Al Qaeda or some other jihadist organization would seek to bomb Americans, but there is no evidence that this bombing was a group effort.  As I said before, it doesn't really matter much why they did what they did just as it really doesn't matter why some guy tried to kill Gabby Giffords, another killed a bunch of people in a cinema in Aurora and another warped guy murdered children in Connecticut.  In the end, we'll just get used to it.  We'll weep and moan and demand something is done, and nothing will be done, and we'll go on living our lives hoping that we won't be the next murderer who thinks his killing is the result of some higher calling.

[Hemodoc]

Thank you for the clarification of what you meant by "Muslim community".  See?  This is why I asked. 

We all know that "direct quotes" can lack context.

I enjoy looking at online editions of many foreign papers, and I didn't see any mention of celebrations in the streets throughout the Muslim world.  I wouldn't be surprised if there WERE some people dancing about in glee, probably some Taliban bozos living in caves, but I suspect you are engaging in a bit of hyperbole.  And what makes me suspicious is the fact that there are many bloggers here in America who would LOVE to make all Muslims the enemy and would have jumped at the chance to share this "evidence" with all like-minded Americans.  Which other credible news organizations reported such wild celebrations?

No, it's no news that Al Qaeda or some other jihadist organization would seek to bomb Americans, but there is no evidence that this bombing was a group effort.  As I said before, it doesn't really matter much why they did what they did just as it really doesn't matter why some guy tried to kill Gabby Giffords, another killed a bunch of people in a cinema in Aurora and another warped guy murdered children in Connecticut.  In the end, we'll just get used to it.  We'll weep and moan and demand something is done, and nothing will be done, and we'll go on living our lives hoping that we won't be the next murderer who thinks his killing is the result of some higher calling.

Yes, they are all horrific tragedies, but the Boston Bombers were not insane like the Arizona shooter and likey insane Aurora shooter as well. There actions were deliberate and premeditated.  The question once again was why did they do it? The second suspect allegedly has answered that question already:

http://nation.foxnews.com/boston-marathon-bomb-suspects/2013/04/22/officials-boston-suspects-motivated-religion

http://news.msn.com/us/officials-boston-suspects-motivated-by-religion

http://www.dailydemocrat.com/ci_23085333/religion-was-motivation-boston-bombing

http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/bn9/2013/4/22/boston_marks_week_fr.html

[Hemodoc]

So these bombers and their freakish mother acted out of their recently radicalized faith.  So what?  People do awful things for all sorts of reasons.  These young men killed 3 people.  Over 30,000 people die each year from gunshot wounds, but we just shrug and do nothing.  Why should this be any different?  Why are we more afraid of Muslim radicals than of the guy next door who owns guns and might have a really bad day?

I will keep to the topic at hand, the Boston Bomber. Those are good issues but outside the scope of the current discussion. If you wish to discuss the other issues, I would be glad to on another thread if you wish to open it.

It appears by the arrests today and prior reports of likely training in Russia that these two did not do this alone. Shall we ever know all the facts, probably not.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/01/18001437-3-more-arrested-in-connection-with-boston-marathon-bombing-case?lite