Traditional America

[Hemodoc]

Dear jbeany,

What part of Christianity is not under siege in America today?  I didn't say WASP's were under siege, I stated that for Christianity. That is a fact as more and more aspects of Christianity are attacked in our society, in our governments, state, local and federal. No, that is still true and siege is very much what is coming against Christianity and Christian values.

Since I don't believe in evolution, I guess I will just continue to believe in my Saviour and the truth of the Bible thank you.

What part of Christianity is not under siege?  How about the part where you can believe anything you want? And the part where you can freely gather in groups to profess your religion? And the part where you can conduct your life however you like? I don't understand the panic. Would you feel the same way if Romney had won?

That is actually an interesting question Bill as far as believing anything that you want. Yes, that is absolutely true, God has given us a free will and does not impose His will upon us.  Most folks don't understand that separation of church and state is actually a Christian doctrine championed by the Baptists mainly.

No panic at all Bill, but of a truth, America is no longer a Christian nation but when I was born in the late 50's you could put forth a very strong argument that we were still indeed a Christian nation. You are right, today, we still have the ability to gather and worship in a manner denied today in many nations around the world such as China, many of the arab nations and other places as well.

Yet, all we have to do is go north to Canada where the Bible has been deemed hate speech and you can no longer preach certain verses from the pulpit without fear of arrest. There have been proposed laws here in the US that to date have been struck down by courts or failed to pass. One such law passed that the Governator signed was SB 1234 which prohibited parts of the Bible. This was later overturned by the courts.

http://www.christianity.com/print/1280230/

There are many that wish to see similar pass and I suspect one day that they will making those verses in the Bible outlawed with severe criminal penalties and fines as did the CA SB 1234. Once again, this bill passed, was signed and then only later reversed by the courts. That is how close we were to criminalizing the Bible.

Yes, America is no longer a Christian nation and it is only a matter of time before American preachers are locked up for proclaiming the truth of the Bible as others have already been prosecuted in Canada and Sweden for instance simply for reading the Bible from the pulpit.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive//ldn/2004/jul/04070505

http://culturecampaign.blogspot.com/2007/12/pastor-found-guilty-of-hate-crime.html

Fortunately, both were acquitted on appeal.

[jbeany]

I do believe in evolution, but that doesn't mean that I don't think God didn't have a hand in it.

I no not know if I no agree with this.

Depends on your definition of God.  Einstein believed in God as a term to describe the beauty and force that began the universe.  He just didn't buy the idea of a personal god who paid attention to the hairs on our heads.  I've read quite a bit of what he's said, and I think along the same lines. 

I remember the first time as a child I really grasped the concept of the size of the universe compared to the insignificant speck that is Earth - and my relative size to that.  I was listening to a very enthusiastic science teacher describe what the best scientists theorized about the ever-expanding space around us.  I felt as if the inside of my brain was rapidly expanding outward, with stars, suns, and planets swirling madly away in the distance as I traveled by them.  It was a moment I'd need terms like "vision," "spiritual," and "out-of-body" to describe accurately.  If you want to call that "God" then I'll go along with it.

[MooseMom]

Dear Moosemom,  I take your statement at face value, but I suspect that you don't really agree with all of the 10 commandments. Most people agree with commandments 5-10, but they reject the first four:

Do you keep the Sabbath, have no other gods before you, not take the name of the Lord in vain and not worship any graven images? Do you believe that the world was created in six days and God rested on the 7th? If you believe in evolution then you reject the 4th commandment since I suspect you reject the notion that God created the earth in 6 days.

Strive is a very strong word that truly does not fit the complete rejection the Judeo-Christian heritage by a majority of people in our US society today. Is support of gay marriage striving for Judeo-Christian ideals? Is abortion, or legalizing pot, or free sexual manifestations throughout our society? No, America openly and defiantly rejects these ideals today that traditional America founding on the WASP society embraced.

I have no other gods before me, I do not take the name of the Lord in vain, I do not worship any graven images.  As for keeping the Sabbath and not working on that day, well, I wish I could tell my husband that I mustn't clean or make his meals on a Sunday because that day is holy.  Do you dialyze on Sundays?  Does your wife cook and clean for you on Sundays?  Do women stop caring for their children (and surely you know how much work THAT takes) on Sundays?  So I guess I'm not entirely sure what that particular commandment means in the context of my life.

No, I do not think God created the world in six days.  I believe in evolution because God Himself left behind His clues for us to discover as our minds evolved as He intended.  Evolution is not anti-Christian..  Evolution is a miracle.   If you believe in the Bible, then you'll believe that He created the Grand Canyon, and the Canyon has evolved over millenia, just like us and just like animals and microbes and the Earth itself. 

[MooseMom]

I do believe in evolution, but that doesn't mean that I don't think God didn't have a hand in it.

I no not know if I no agree with this.

LOL!  The phone rang while I was typing this.  I guess I got distracted.  How many negatives can I manage to work into one sentence?

I do believe in evolution, but that doesn't mean that I think that God didn't have a hand in it.

[Hemodoc]

Dear Moosemom,  I take your statement at face value, but I suspect that you don't really agree with all of the 10 commandments. Most people agree with commandments 5-10, but they reject the first four:

Do you keep the Sabbath, have no other gods before you, not take the name of the Lord in vain and not worship any graven images? Do you believe that the world was created in six days and God rested on the 7th? If you believe in evolution then you reject the 4th commandment since I suspect you reject the notion that God created the earth in 6 days.

Strive is a very strong word that truly does not fit the complete rejection the Judeo-Christian heritage by a majority of people in our US society today. Is support of gay marriage striving for Judeo-Christian ideals? Is abortion, or legalizing pot, or free sexual manifestations throughout our society? No, America openly and defiantly rejects these ideals today that traditional America founding on the WASP society embraced.

I have no other gods before me, I do not take the name of the Lord in vain, I do not worship any graven images.  As for keeping the Sabbath and not working on that day, well, I wish I could tell my husband that I mustn't clean or make his meals on a Sunday because that day is holy.  Do you dialyze on Sundays?  Does your wife cook and clean for you on Sundays?  Do women stop caring for their children (and surely you know how much work THAT takes) on Sundays?  So I guess I'm not entirely sure what that particular commandment means in the context of my life.

No, I do not think God created the world in six days.  I believe in evolution because God Himself left behind His clues for us to discover as our minds evolved as He intended.  Evolution is not anti-Christian..  Evolution is a miracle.   If you believe in the Bible, then you'll believe that He created the Grand Canyon, and the Canyon has evolved over millenia, just like us and just like animals and microbes and the Earth itself.

Actually, the Sabbath is Friday at Sunset to Saturday at Sunset. Sunday is the first day of the week. But that is a bit of a long discussion of great contention, so won't go there in detail. As far as dialyzing, absolutely, if my schedule falls on Sunday which it does quite frequently, yes, I dialyze and furthermore that is not at all in opposition to the teachings of Jesus.

Luke 14:1 AND it came to pass, as he went into the house of one of the chief Pharisees to eat bread on the sabbath day, that they watched him. 
2     And, behold, there was a certain man before him which had the dropsy. 
3     And Jesus answering spake unto the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day? 
4     And they held their peace. And he took him, and healed him, and let him go; 
5    And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day? 
6     And they could not answer him again to these things.

If you wish to discuss evolution and even the Grand Canyon in detail, perhaps it would be better to start a separate thread. In brief, scientist really have no clue how the Grand Canyon formed or how old it really is. Last year, the canyon was younger than thought, this year the canyon is older than they thought. In reality, they don't have a clue how it formed.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765618011/Study-contends-Grand-Canyon-as-old-as-dinosaur-era.html?pg=all

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1381686/Scientist-claims-hes-finally-discovered-caused-Grand-Canyon.html

Simply question for you, if the Grand Canyon formed over millions and millions of years, how are the sedimentary rocks perfectly flat in between all of the layers. There is a very simple answer to that question that all of the secular scientists reject. The formation of sedimentary rocks is very interesting actually very important evidence of the truth of the Bible. But anyway, if you would like to look into that issue in depth, it is way off topic for this thread.

As far as evolution not being anti-Christian, I would beg to differ. But that is also a separate thread as well if you wish to discuss those issues in detail. Glad to do so, but off topic to this thread.

[MooseMom]

Hemodoc, thanks for the clarification re healing on the Sabbath.  As for the definition of the Sabbath, I knew that in the Jewish faith, the Sabbath is observed from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday, so I am wondering why Christians chose Sunday as the traditional day of worship.  I don't imagine that in traditional America, people stopped working from Friday night to Saturday night.  Is this contrary to the Bible's teachings?  But since you say that this is a contentious subject, perhaps you are right in saying that this is not the place for that discussion.  Still, I am curious!

No, I don't wish to get into the mysteries of the Grand Canyon and how God created its perfect layers.  You and I will just have to agree to disagree about evolution.  I think the story of God creating the world in 6 days is a simplistic parable because what He REALLY did and how He REALLY did it is far more impressive.  I personally believe that the Big Bang was the Hand of God, His moment of creation.

I strive to live by the Golden rule and to be kind and compassionate.  As you know, I am not a biblical scholar, so I am probably sinning every minute of every day without even knowing it.  I have a son that God created to be autistic, so He has given me a great challenge...to teach my son to be kind and compassionate, too, when those concepts are hard for him to understand.  I struggle through life just like everyone else, but I try very hard not to let my struggles keep me from being a good person who tries to live a life that God would judge as satisfactory.  If this is not good enough for Him, then so be it.

Most people I know are just like me, people who strive to be "good" and who work hard and who struggle through life's many challenges, just like people did in what you would call "traditional America".

I know you feel that America has discarded Judeo-Christian ideals, so what do you do on a daily basis that upholds those ideals?  You've said that you give money to "homeless folk".  Well, so do I, but that's not very much.  When was the last time you had a kind word for someone?  When was the last time you helped a neighbor?  When was the last time you showed some compassion and shared your vast medical knowledge with a new, scared member here on IHD?  I don't ask you this because I suspect that you have not done these things but, rather, I ask because I expect that you HAVE, and I'd like to know more about how YOU uphold the ideals of "traditional America".

[Hemodoc]

Hemodoc, thanks for the clarification re healing on the Sabbath.  As for the definition of the Sabbath, I knew that in the Jewish faith, the Sabbath is observed from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday, so I am wondering why Christians chose Sunday as the traditional day of worship.  I don't imagine that in traditional America, people stopped working from Friday night to Saturday night.  Is this contrary to the Bible's teachings?  But since you say that this is a contentious subject, perhaps you are right in saying that this is not the place for that discussion.  Still, I am curious!

No, I don't wish to get into the mysteries of the Grand Canyon and how God created its perfect layers.  You and I will just have to agree to disagree about evolution.  I think the story of God creating the world in 6 days is a simplistic parable because what He REALLY did and how He REALLY did it is far more impressive.  I personally believe that the Big Bang was the Hand of God, His moment of creation.

I strive to live by the Golden rule and to be kind and compassionate.  As you know, I am not a biblical scholar, so I am probably sinning every minute of every day without even knowing it.  I have a son that God created to be autistic, so He has given me a great challenge...to teach my son to be kind and compassionate, too, when those concepts are hard for him to understand.  I struggle through life just like everyone else, but I try very hard not to let my struggles keep me from being a good person who tries to live a life that God would judge as satisfactory.  If this is not good enough for Him, then so be it.

Most people I know are just like me, people who strive to be "good" and who work hard and who struggle through life's many challenges, just like people did in what you would call "traditional America".

I know you feel that America has discarded Judeo-Christian ideals, so what do you do on a daily basis that upholds those ideals?  You've said that you give money to "homeless folk".  Well, so do I, but that's not very much.  When was the last time you had a kind word for someone?  When was the last time you helped a neighbor?  When was the last time you showed some compassion and shared your vast medical knowledge with a new, scared member here on IHD?  I don't ask you this because I suspect that you have not done these things but, rather, I ask because I expect that you HAVE, and I'd like to know more about how YOU uphold the ideals of "traditional America".

I start last question first, my good deeds are between me and God, not folks here at IHD thank you.

Living by the golden rule is a great place to start. The problem is not that it is not good enough for God, it is that there is only one way to Heaven, through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. If we could be good enough in our right to be right with God, then why did He send His Son to die on the cross for the atoning of our sins? In the end, you are partly right, we by ourselves and our own actions can never be perfect and holy and justified in God's eyes. That is the gospel message, we are in need of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ. In other words, we are all sinners.

God does speak of a big bang, but it is much different than the big bang the secular scientists promote as their theory of how the universe began. By the way, have you ever considered where all that dirt, i.e. the matter of the universe came from in the first place?  As far as the parallel layers of Grand Canyon and around the world for that matter, the issue is that the scientist tell us that there are millions of years between each layer. How then are there no signs of erosions between those layers?  Millions of years and no signs of erosions. Sorry, that is not science.

http://brycecanyoncountry.com/blog/2011/01/grand-staircase-escalante-national-monument/

In any case, I am always willing to answer questions about the Bible if you are interested.

Take care,

Peter

[MooseMom]

I realize that questions about your "good deeds" are personal, and if you decline to answer, I respect that.  I know a couple of people who "talk the talk" but don't "walk the walk", and I trust you are not one of those.

[Bill Peckham]

That is actually an interesting question Bill as far as believing anything that you want. Yes, that is absolutely true, God has given us a free will and does not impose His will upon us.  Most folks don't understand that separation of church and state is actually a Christian doctrine championed by the Baptists mainly.

No panic at all Bill, but of a truth, America is no longer a Christian nation but when I was born in the late 50's you could put forth a very strong argument that we were still indeed a Christian nation. You are right, today, we still have the ability to gather and worship in a manner denied today in many nations around the world such as China, many of the arab nations and other places as well.

Yet, all we have to do is go north to Canada where the Bible has been deemed hate speech and you can no longer preach certain verses from the pulpit without fear of arrest. There have been proposed laws here in the US that to date have been struck down by courts or failed to pass. One such law passed that the Governator signed was SB 1234 which prohibited parts of the Bible. This was later overturned by the courts.

http://www.christianity.com/print/1280230/

There are many that wish to see similar pass and I suspect one day that they will making those verses in the Bible outlawed with severe criminal penalties and fines as did the CA SB 1234. Once again, this bill passed, was signed and then only later reversed by the courts. That is how close we were to criminalizing the Bible.

Yes, America is no longer a Christian nation and it is only a matter of time before American preachers are locked up for proclaiming the truth of the Bible as others have already been prosecuted in Canada and Sweden for instance simply for reading the Bible from the pulpit.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive//ldn/2004/jul/04070505

http://culturecampaign.blogspot.com/2007/12/pastor-found-guilty-of-hate-crime.html

Fortunately, both were acquitted on appeal.

To substantiate your question "What part of Christianity is not under siege in America today?" you provided links to stories from Canada and Sweden? What bill in CA are you talking about? It is preposterous to suggest Christianity is under siege - that political policies preferred by evangelical Christians are not popular nationally, does not a siege make. One could say that the popularity of argument by assertion is under siege, but that is categories different from Christianity per se, though a venn diagram would show significant overlap.

[YLGuy]

Hemodoc, thanks for the clarification re healing on the Sabbath.  As for the definition of the Sabbath, I knew that in the Jewish faith, the Sabbath is observed from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday, so I am wondering why Christians chose Sunday as the traditional day of worship.  I don't imagine that in traditional America, people stopped working from Friday night to Saturday night.  Is this contrary to the Bible's teachings?  But since you say that this is a contentious subject, perhaps you are right in saying that this is not the place for that discussion.  Still, I am curious!

No, I don't wish to get into the mysteries of the Grand Canyon and how God created its perfect layers.  You and I will just have to agree to disagree about evolution.  I think the story of God creating the world in 6 days is a simplistic parable because what He REALLY did and how He REALLY did it is far more impressive.  I personally believe that the Big Bang was the Hand of God, His moment of creation.

I strive to live by the Golden rule and to be kind and compassionate.  As you know, I am not a biblical scholar, so I am probably sinning every minute of every day without even knowing it.  I have a son that God created to be autistic, so He has given me a great challenge...to teach my son to be kind and compassionate, too, when those concepts are hard for him to understand.  I struggle through life just like everyone else, but I try very hard not to let my struggles keep me from being a good person who tries to live a life that God would judge as satisfactory.  If this is not good enough for Him, then so be it.

Most people I know are just like me, people who strive to be "good" and who work hard and who struggle through life's many challenges, just like people did in what you would call "traditional America".

I know you feel that America has discarded Judeo-Christian ideals, so what do you do on a daily basis that upholds those ideals?  You've said that you give money to "homeless folk".  Well, so do I, but that's not very much.  When was the last time you had a kind word for someone?  When was the last time you helped a neighbor?  When was the last time you showed some compassion and shared your vast medical knowledge with a new, scared member here on IHD?  I don't ask you this because I suspect that you have not done these things but, rather, I ask because I expect that you HAVE, and I'd like to know more about how YOU uphold the ideals of "traditional America".

I start last question first, my good deeds are between me and God, not folks here at IHD thank you.

Living by the golden rule is a great place to start. The problem is not that it is not good enough for God, it is that there is only one way to Heaven, through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. If we could be good enough in our right to be right with God, then why did He send His Son to die on the cross for the atoning of our sins? In the end, you are partly right, we by ourselves and our own actions can never be perfect and holy and justified in God's eyes. That is the gospel message, we are in need of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ. In other words, we are all sinners.

God does speak of a big bang, but it is much different than the big bang the secular scientists promote as their theory of how the universe began. By the way, have you ever considered where all that dirt, i.e. the matter of the universe came from in the first place?  As far as the parallel layers of Grand Canyon and around the world for that matter, the issue is that the scientist tell us that there are millions of years between each layer. How then are there no signs of erosions between those layers?  Millions of years and no signs of erosions. Sorry, that is not science.

http://brycecanyoncountry.com/blog/2011/01/grand-staircase-escalante-national-monument/

In any case, I am always willing to answer questions about the Bible if you are interested.

Take care,

Peter

Hey Peter please do not try and tout your "good deeds."  For some reason you have decided to skip over Exodus 20:16, Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor. I know for a fact that you have posted lies about other members.  You are a sinner. You have proved this through your "deeds."

[lmunchkin]

Wow, YL Guy!  Would you shed your "Perfect Blood" to save Peters Soul.  Only God himself will point out the deeds of others. Please would you shed your blood for me too, cause I know, Iam not perfect.  Had no idea I was in the presences of one who is!! 

lmunchkin

P.S. John 8:7 (KJV) He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
      Matt: 7:5 (KJV) Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

[gothiclovemonkey]

i had no idea id be in church today.... good thing my jeans are holy *giggles*

Come on people... stop.
If any of you were half as "christian" as you claim to be, these fights wouldnt be occurring. You can read and post the word of god all you want, but until you live it completely, you are just as much a sinner as the next guy. everyone is a sinner, no body is perfect. blah blah blah blah -insert random pointless sermon here blah blah blah

if you all want to spout that crap, just remember :
LOVE THY NEIGHBOR

[lmunchkin]

Exactly my point Glovemonkey!!!!  Stop the pointing fingers.  And please, we can all do as we please.  Give our views!  You have given your views too!  None of us can say we havent.   If I choose to use the scriptures to prove God, that is my right, whether Iam a Christian or Not.  Lots of non-Christians use the scriptures. 
What is wrong with using them?  If I don't believe, what does it hurt you?

I don't like to see sinners pointing others sinners problems out.  That is all.  I felt like the Word Of God, if you believe or not, was the best way to get it across.  Like it or not GLM, not much one can do about it, is there?  You can't stop the spewing & ugliness any more than I can.

You call It "Crap", I choose to call it the "Bible".  No problem with me. I just don't understand why some can use it & others have a problem with it.

Whether you think Im Christian or Not, is really none of my concern.  All of us will be Judged for our Deeds, whether Good or Bad, in the Open or Hidden.  God Knows & See All.

Jesus Is Lord,
lmunchkin

[Hemodoc]

Hemodoc, thanks for the clarification re healing on the Sabbath.  As for the definition of the Sabbath, I knew that in the Jewish faith, the Sabbath is observed from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday, so I am wondering why Christians chose Sunday as the traditional day of worship.  I don't imagine that in traditional America, people stopped working from Friday night to Saturday night.  Is this contrary to the Bible's teachings?  But since you say that this is a contentious subject, perhaps you are right in saying that this is not the place for that discussion.  Still, I am curious!

No, I don't wish to get into the mysteries of the Grand Canyon and how God created its perfect layers.  You and I will just have to agree to disagree about evolution.  I think the story of God creating the world in 6 days is a simplistic parable because what He REALLY did and how He REALLY did it is far more impressive.  I personally believe that the Big Bang was the Hand of God, His moment of creation.

I strive to live by the Golden rule and to be kind and compassionate.  As you know, I am not a biblical scholar, so I am probably sinning every minute of every day without even knowing it.  I have a son that God created to be autistic, so He has given me a great challenge...to teach my son to be kind and compassionate, too, when those concepts are hard for him to understand.  I struggle through life just like everyone else, but I try very hard not to let my struggles keep me from being a good person who tries to live a life that God would judge as satisfactory.  If this is not good enough for Him, then so be it.

Most people I know are just like me, people who strive to be "good" and who work hard and who struggle through life's many challenges, just like people did in what you would call "traditional America".

I know you feel that America has discarded Judeo-Christian ideals, so what do you do on a daily basis that upholds those ideals?  You've said that you give money to "homeless folk".  Well, so do I, but that's not very much.  When was the last time you had a kind word for someone?  When was the last time you helped a neighbor?  When was the last time you showed some compassion and shared your vast medical knowledge with a new, scared member here on IHD?  I don't ask you this because I suspect that you have not done these things but, rather, I ask because I expect that you HAVE, and I'd like to know more about how YOU uphold the ideals of "traditional America".

I start last question first, my good deeds are between me and God, not folks here at IHD thank you.

Living by the golden rule is a great place to start. The problem is not that it is not good enough for God, it is that there is only one way to Heaven, through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. If we could be good enough in our right to be right with God, then why did He send His Son to die on the cross for the atoning of our sins? In the end, you are partly right, we by ourselves and our own actions can never be perfect and holy and justified in God's eyes. That is the gospel message, we are in need of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ. In other words, we are all sinners.

God does speak of a big bang, but it is much different than the big bang the secular scientists promote as their theory of how the universe began. By the way, have you ever considered where all that dirt, i.e. the matter of the universe came from in the first place?  As far as the parallel layers of Grand Canyon and around the world for that matter, the issue is that the scientist tell us that there are millions of years between each layer. How then are there no signs of erosions between those layers?  Millions of years and no signs of erosions. Sorry, that is not science.

http://brycecanyoncountry.com/blog/2011/01/grand-staircase-escalante-national-monument/

In any case, I am always willing to answer questions about the Bible if you are interested.

Take care,

Peter

Hey Peter please do not try and tout your "good deeds."  For some reason you have decided to skip over Exodus 20:16, Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor. I know for a fact that you have posted lies about other members.  You are a sinner. You have proved this through your "deeds."

Never mind, have a great day YL.

[gothiclovemonkey]

I think I was misunderstood.
I realize that I seem to come across wrong here often, and I really dont see how, perhaps I suck at wording myself lol I am sorry for that.

First and formost, Imunchkin, Forgive me for using the term "crap" I meant absolutely no offense, your beliefs are your own, just as mine are my own. It was a poor choice for a word, i think... but i seriously meant no offense by it! And I agree wholeheartedly that we will be judged in the end by how we live our lives. I know I am far from perfect, and Im sorry if I came across otherwise... 

 
I am not saying dont state opinions or anything like that, but when the personal attacks start.... thats not good.
Ive been attacked a few times, myself, and i dont really know why. The only thing i have been saying is, instead of attacking each other, agree to disagree and love one another....

people want to claim to know what those scriptures mean, but then not act accordingly... seems a bit silly to know them so well, and not try to live by them...
BUT that is just my opinion...

As I am sure you can tell I am not a relgious person, I dont identify as any specific religion, but I believe in good, and I believe in God.
It doesnt really matter what I believe, or what you(this is not directed to any one person btw) believe, what matters is that we are good to one another.
Shouldnt that be all peoples common goal?

Its just so frustrating to see us all arguing over everything when we should be loving each other.

I have no problems with people quoting the bible, but i do however have a problem when I see people use it to benifit their arguments ... Not saying anyone has done that, but it does seem the only time its used is for arguing.... thats sad. 

[lmunchkin]

I agree it is sad to argue.  I was not arguing.  I was merely pointing out that Im not perfect and don't appreciate another

Hey Peter please do not try and tout your "good deeds."  For some reason you have decided to skip over Exodus 20:16, Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor. I know for a fact that you have posted lies about other members.  You are a sinner. You have proved this through your "deeds."

Non perfect person pointing out the other non perfect persons deeds. Whew, that was a tongue twister!!! It is a metaphor I was making.  A comparison so to sa according to the Bible.  I felt it was pretty condescending on his part.  I didn't see where he apologized for it.  Doesn't bother me, I just felt like it needed to be said.  We are all adults here, and I don't think any of us need repromanding by the admins.

Forgive me if I offended anyone, that was not my intent.  Just pointing out that we must be careful in our language to others. If some find it awful in what I said, Im sorry.  But it was simply to point out that all of us are sinners and no need for one to condemn the other for theirs.

No offense taken Glm. Irregardless of what I say or do, I still love IHD!

God Bless,
lmunchkin

[lmunchkin]

I do disagree about using the Bible to benefit (as you said) an arguement.  The Bible is the Truth and is an excellent source for verification.  Iam a sinner but Im a Christian through the Blood of Jesus.  Doent mean Im perfect, just means that Iam forgiven for past, present & future sins.  Though I must ask forgiveness daily.

Im not sure what people mean when they say they are not "Religious".  What does that mean?  I do love to go to Church.  Wish it was open everyday, but the reality is, it is not in a particular building where christians can fellowship, it is in the Heart!  To talk about "Church" things?  Not understanding that either.  I do like talking about the Love that Christ gives. And since he is a part of me now, wasn't in the past, I will not let it go.  I can't help it yall!  I am always going to express my greatfulness to him.  How can I ask someone who gave his life for my sins, to take it back?  How dumb would I be!  Nope, not gonna do it.

And you know, GLM, Ive been attacked here myself.  A couple times was Justified, but not all times.  Just have to pull up those big girl britches and go on.  Remember the childhood saying, "sticks & stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me?"  The devil is in to words.  He loves for people to use words to hurt people. But like the saying says, those words will never hurt me, they use to, but not no more because of Jesus.  When He entered my heart, the Devil scattered! As a mortal person, my feelings may get hurt, but the word does not hurt.

Oh he still tempts me, but the battle is over and the devil knows it.  I pray he never has a hand in my life again!

Now Im getting to "Preachy" but I know of no other way.

Love to all,
lmunchkin

P.S. To all those who do not believe in any of this, then this has no bearing on you.  So I know you are not worried about what Im saying because it means nothing or has no relevance in your life, God & Jesus, I mean.

[gothiclovemonkey]

lol to clarify what i personally mean by saying im not religious...
I think the best way for me to explain that is by saying I dont identify myself a christian, catholic, buddist, etc. I belong to no specific religion. I do however believe in a higher power. Some would call that agnostic, but i dont label it. I just believe what I believe. (if i had to define, i suppose id say christian though, i just dont agree with everything written in the bible... )

And I personally believe that a church is not a building, as you said.

im glad that so many of you have your beliefs... some people have none.

[lmunchkin]

Thanks for clearing that up Glm.  Ive heard people express that on here, think maybe I have said it too, but not really knowing what that means.  Daaaah.

At least you are making a stand for what You believe in, whether I agree or not, at least you are doing so. Yea, I have questions about the Bible too, but I still Believe it is the Truth!  I Believe it is the Word of God.  Now I don't claim to know & understand it, far from it, but I don't have to understand everything about it to Believe it.  God is still working on that with me. I want to read it more than I do, (I know) my bad, but finding the time is really hard.  I do think He understands, as long as we read it and apply it to our hearts! I believe as long as we know about the Christ and his purpose for coming, then I think God is cool with that. I just have to strive to be more obedient to Him and His Will for my life.

Take care now, cause got to go shopping for Grandkids,
God Bless,
lmunchkin

[jbeany]

glm, look up the term "humanist."  I didn't have a term for what I considered myself until I read about humanism.  Atheists believe in nothing, agnostics doubt just about everything, but humanists tend to believe that there is more to the universe than science has explained, don't follow any organized religion (although they respect others who do), and believe in being moral and ethical because it's the right thing to do for both individuals and society, not because of any religious law.

[willowtreewren]

glm, look up the term "humanist."  I didn't have a term for what I considered myself until I read about humanism.  Atheists believe in nothing, agnostics doubt just about everything, but humanists tend to believe that there is more to the universe than science has explained, don't follow any organized religion (although they respect others who do), and believe in being moral and ethical because it's the right thing to do for both individuals and society, not because of any religious law.

Jbeany, dear, as an atheist (also humanist) I want to clarify something. We atheists don't "believe in nothing." Now there's a double negative for ya! We do, however, lack a belief in any supernatural beings. I know a great many atheists who would also take issue with a description that we believe in nothing. Just saying. 

Aleta

[jbeany]

glm, look up the term "humanist."  I didn't have a term for what I considered myself until I read about humanism.  Atheists believe in nothing, agnostics doubt just about everything, but humanists tend to believe that there is more to the universe than science has explained, don't follow any organized religion (although they respect others who do), and believe in being moral and ethical because it's the right thing to do for both individuals and society, not because of any religious law.

Jbeany, dear, as an atheist (also humanist) I want to clarify something. We atheists don't "believe in nothing." Now there's a double negative for ya! We do, however, lack a belief in any supernatural beings. I know a great many atheists who would also take issue with a description that we believe in nothing. Just saying. 

Aleta

 

Hair-splitting noted for future reference!     Remind me not to try to sum up 3 belief systems in a single sentence anymore, either.   

[gothiclovemonkey]

LOL you guys are funny

ive heard of that term before... not sure where...

i think everyone puts wayyyyyy to much effort in trying to define something that doesnt really need to be defined. i know whats in my heart, and so does my god... that should be good enough (i hope haha)

its like with sexuality and political beliefs, i really dont have a definition for either of those things either hahaha

I am what I am....

 apparently, im also popeye..... now wheres me spinach?

[Hober Mallow]

A very interesting read, Hober. Have you ever read God: A Biography? It is fascinating.

Okay, I've been gone a while and am now playing catchup.

No, I've never read it, but since you mention it I may check it out.

In the sequel to God: A Biography, Miles posits that essentially, God needs to really outdo himself to explain why he did not keep his promise to the Jews.

Yeah, that was a psychological crisis for the Jews. If you've ever read 1 and 2 Chronicles, the entire point of the author is that the kings who were pious and faithful to Yahveh were always inevitably rewarded with material wealth, wives and concubines, and governed a prosperous Judah and those that turned away from Yahveh were just as surely punished. The view the author takes is that good times were always -- without exception -- the result of pious kings and that bad times are always the result of faithless kings. After the fall of Judah and the exile, the Jews were psychologically shattered and had to come up with some explanation.

You get a more refined view of God with the story of Job. In Job, Job loses his children and his livelihood, and is at a loss to explain it. The people who have come to comfort him take the view of the author os of 1 and 2 Chronicles and insist that he *must* have done something wrong in the eyes of God, or God would not have allowed this calamity. But Job did nothing wrong, and the text tells us this. Job challenges God over this injustice and and learns what many religious people today have to learn -- that his image of God can only get you so far. The image is a reference to something which transcends all categories of thought. And when you get stuck with the personification of God and forget its reference, you get a shock when you come into contact with the cold equations of the universe, which have no notion whatever of justice. Justice is not a product of the universe, and it was not a product of Job's God. Challenged, God appears to Job. But he doesn't explain himself to Job as Job wants. His response to Job is this: "Did you create this universe? Do you make the world turn? Did you hook leviathon?" The answer, in other words, is "I'm great -- greater than you. Do not apply your values to me. Do not create *me* in *your* image." In other words, by clinging to an image of God and not understanding the reference, you are essentially worshipping idols. Job bows his head in shame.

So, instead of the promise of victory over their enemies, the promise becomes victory over death itself.

And that's a major influence from Zoroastianism, which the Jews picked up in exile. In early Yahvism, you have a God, but no modern concept of heaven and hell. All people when they died went to Sheol, the underworld. Sheol is mentioned many times in the Old Testament, but is translated into English as "hell." In Zoroastianism, you have a lord of light, Ahura Mazda, and a lord of darkness, Angra Manyu, and the universe if the battleground between light and darkness. Zoroaster was a prophet who brought the good news to the world, and would one day return to the world as a messiah (sayoshant), born of a virgin, to conquer the lord of the lie once and for all, and all the good people would live forever with Ahura Mazda while all the wicked would be destroyed. Sound familiar?

[Hemodoc]

Hmmm, possible court martial for simply talking about the Bible?

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/05/01/Breaking-Pentagon-Confirms-Will-Court-Martial-Soldiers-Who-Share-Christian-Faith

http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-criminalizes-christianity-the-military

http://christiannews.net/2013/05/01/atheist-military-organization-asks-pentagon-to-court-martial-soldiers-who-share-faith-with-troops/

Yes, times are changing in traditional America. I became a Christian while on active duty in the Army in 1994. Nearly 20 years later and what my friend did is under possible scrutiny of court martial for anyone doing the same today.