I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: General Discussion => Topic started by: LightLizard on August 01, 2007, 01:58:15 PM
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On another message board, where I have been a member for several years, I'm having some challenges with some of the members and their attitude towards my condition.
Many of them support and believe the premise that any condition of the body, any illness, chronic or not, can be healed by oneself with their own mind, whether it is by prayer of affirmation, reiki or 'manifesting your reality'. These people insist that my condition is a result of my indulging in negative thinking. They claim that seeing my condition is my fault, that I should be able to heal it if I could change my perception to be more in line with theirs.
What do you say to such a premise?
love
~LL~
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I think they must not have ever had to deal with an illness where death would be imminent if their beliefs failed. I hope you don't think its your fault.
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On another message board, where I have been a member for several years, I'm having some challenges with some of the members and their attitude towards my condition.
Many of them support and believe the premise that any condition of the body, any illness, chronic or not, can be healed by oneself with their own mind, whether it is by prayer of affirmation, reiki or 'manifesting your reality'. These people insist that my condition is a result of my indulging in negative thinking. They claim that seeing my condition is my fault, that I should be able to heal it if I could change my perception to be more in line with theirs.
What do you say to such a premise?
love
~LL~
Easy for them to say. I wish I knew what group or message board this was. I suspect their theology or spirituality
is FLAWED. While I believe that sometimes miracles do happen, I know first hand that a lot of this stuff is a sham
and a scam. The problem is that many of us really want to Believe in stuff being sold by hucksters.
Blaming the victim is not limited to spirituality, it can be found in government, politics, and even the health care system.
Sadly, many don't really know how to help or care even with the best intentions.
....bd
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thank you both. those are pretty much my thoughts on the matter too. until one has walked the walk, there's only talk. and we all know how cheap that can be...
if you want to join in the fun, you can register here, http://www.chopra.com/Discussion/default.asp put on your hip waders, first!
;)
love
~LL~
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If that was the case then NO ONE would be ill. There is nothing wrong with positive thought , but actual healing thought , sorry if it was so simple i think we would all have healed ourselves long ago .
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If that was the case then NO ONE would be ill. There is nothing wrong with positive thought , but actual healing thought , sorry if it was so simple i think we would all have healed ourselves long ago .
that's the truth, kickstart. but some people won't settle for that and insist that if we can't heal ourselves, it must be due to something we're doing wrong.
bedsides, imagine a world where no one ever got sick and died. we'd be about thirty-thousand deep, in a decade or so, covering the earth and clogging up the oceans with our indestructible bodies.
what would we do then?
;)
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YO glitter, i see your name on the 'new members' listing over there. keep yer head down and watch yer back!
i'll fly 'point' fer ya.
go to the 'health' section for a good time.
heehee
LOCK'N'LOAD!
:boxing;
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I will be joining tommorrow , both guns blazing , lock n load it is ! I just love a good debate ! :bandance;
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I will be joining tommorrow , both guns blazing , lock n load it is ! I just love a good debate ! :bandance;
:secret; put me down for $100.00 on Kickstart, she's a feisty one :P :boxing;
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:bandance; :bandance;
YAYY!! I KNEW my gang wouldn't let me down!
PREPARE FOR BATTLE!
:wine; :boxing; :canadaflag; :usaflag; :ukflag; :ausflag;
:grouphug; :beer1; :yahoo;
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I will be joining tommorrow , both guns blazing , lock n load it is ! I just love a good debate ! :bandance;
:secret; put me down for $100.00 on Kickstart, she's a feisty one :P :boxing;
Oh when i get started .... :rofl;
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let us know of the fun that develops ..................... should be a laugh
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most of the people on that site are good folk, really. it's just a few that get one riled up. like saying a child that gets sick has attracted the illness and such. it can be fun and stimulating, if you like that kind of thing. i think i do, cuz i've been there awhile. maybe i'm just a bit of a masochist.
;)
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Most of the people on that site are good folk, really. It's just a few that get one riled up, like saying a child that gets sick has attracted the illness and such. It can be fun and stimulating, if you like that kind of thing. I think I do, cuz I've been there a while. Maybe I'm just a bit of a masochist.
;)
I cannot imagine why anyone would believe that crap! People who are ill, especially children, need help, kindness, and reassurance. Blaming the patient is just wrong!
You're not a masochist. It looks like a great board for very interesting discussions. But, I am not at a place right now where I can enjoy that kind of thing. Maybe later in the year when I have more time and am getting enough sleep.
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i hear you Black, and i totally understand your position. i often take breaks from that board, as it just gets to be too much after awhile.
love
~LL~
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and by the way Black, what you posted on chopra.com when you were there was absolutely perfect!
i stay in the battle because i know there are many who read that site are looking for support and are too shy to post because they don't want to be told that their condition is their fault.
those that preach that nonsense need to be set straight. i invited them here, so they could try their stupidity on this site, but they don't have the guts to come here, they know they would be trashed.
and so they should.
;)
love'n'laffs
~LL~
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and by the way Black, what you posted on chopra.com when you were there was absolutely perfect!...
:lol; :2thumbsup; Thanks, glad to know I was of help.
... i stay in the battle because i know there are many who read that site are looking for support and are too shy to post because they don't want to be told that their condition is their fault.
those that preach that nonsense need to be set straight. i invited them here, so they could try their stupidity on this site, but they don't have the guts to come here, they know they would be trashed.
and so they should.
;)
love'n'laffs
~LL~
You're doing a great service and helping those silenced find their voice. :2thumbsup;
The others may not be trashed but they would certainly learn a lot about real life here.
Control freaks who think they can control everything are some of my least favorite people. I love the John Wayne quote, "Life is tough. Life is tougher if you're stupid." Refusing to recognize that life is tough and often beyond your control is stupid.
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I feel that people that think you can heal your body with your mind did too much acid in the seventies. I don't believe it for one minute. I know some illness can be cured by diet. But to say kidney disease is the persons fault is ridiculous. I think it was 1973, someone started to hand out bad acid and these idiots did more than their share.
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Hmmm dont know whats wrong , was all set to do battle and it wont let me register.Is it because its set up for USA address?
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Total Bollocks! I wouldn't even waste time going onto their website. Although these people may be very nice and sincere in their beliefs, lets make no bones about it, they are totally delusional and whats more they're probably nuts. I myself would rather spend my rather limited time reading and posting to this website than wasting time trying to argue with that kind of drivel. :rant;
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How does the theory that negative thoughts cause illness account for the role of genes, nutrition, accidental injuries, environmental pollutants, or permanent damage caused by severe viral or baterial infections in causing illness? Surely our thoughts cannot make these phenomena materialize out of thin air? The fact that many infants are born seriously ill, or that comatose people thinking no thoughts at all develop further somatic illnesses, clearly demonstrates that illness can arise in the absence of any thought. And even if you grant the absurd hypothesis that negative thoughts cause illness, then that does not necessarily mean that positive thoughts can cure illness once the damage is done! If someone's negative thoughts cause him to develop cancer in his leg, which then spontaneously amputates becauseo f the disease, his suddenly thinking positive thoughts will not make a new leg grow back, as though he were a chameleon! Nor will they make a dead kidney spring back to life.
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How does the theory that negative thoughts cause illness account for the role of genes, nutrition, accidental injuries, environmental pollutants, or permanent damage caused by severe viral or baterial infections in causing illness? Surely our thoughts cannot make these phenomena materialize out of thin air? The fact that many infants are born seriously ill, or that comatose people thinking no thoughts at all develop further somatic illnesses, clearly demonstrates that illness can arise in the absence of any thought. And even if you grant the absurd hypothesis that negative thoughts cause illness, then that does not necessarily mean that positive thoughts can cure illness once the damage is done! If someone's negative thoughts cause him to develop cancer in his leg, which then spontaneously amputates becauseo f the disease, his suddenly thinking positive thoughts will not make a new leg grow back, as though he were a chameleon! Nor will they make a dead kidney spring back to life.
:clap; :clap; :clap;
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Hmmm dont know whats wrong , was all set to do battle and it wont let me register.Is it because its set up for USA address?
there are a number of problems with that board, besides registration difficulies, there is no effective monitoring, so the arguments can get out of hand, sometimes. the disabling of the PM feature also robbed people of a way to work out issues behind the scenes, and it shows.
there is a spam program that has invaded the 'off topic' area, and software glitches that have been mostly ignored by the admin.
there's always an 'error' message that comes up after posting something.
if it wasn't for the name that chopra has, nobody would bother with it.
it's like fly-paper for loonies and woo-woo's.
:urcrazy;
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thank you both. those are pretty much my thoughts on the matter too. until one has walked the walk, there's only talk. and we all know how cheap that can be...
if you want to join in the fun, you can register here, http://www.chopra.com/Discussion/default.asp put on your hip waders, first!
;)
:urcrazy;
love
~LL~
Hey.... if Oprah married Deepak Chopra she'd be Oprah Chopra!
Sorry............... :urcrazy; :urcrazy;
Donna
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Many of them support and believe the premise that any condition of the body, any illness, chronic or not, can be healed by oneself
What do you say to such a premise?
I know what _I_ would say....but in respect tp the late lamented Epoman's rules on swearing, I won't say it here!! :oops;
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I have one word to tell the people that think positive thinking with do everything for you even heal a serious illness.....It starts with a B, has two lls in the middle and sh in it and a t at the end!!
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:urcrazy; B U L L S H I T ?? I got it I got it!!! :yahoo;
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Add me to the list of B........S.....
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yes, it's amazing, really, the lengths that people will go to in order to make themselves feel powerful enough to avoid the fears they have regarding health issues and the prospect of death.
there are some conditions that can be healed by the mind, or mind-work, i believe, but those conditions are due to imbalances of the mind in the first place and don't include the truly life-threatening conditions.
doctors know this, that's why they use placebos for some patients. but a placebo won't help to cure
ESRD, or many other conditions.
sometimes, nothing works, except to slow the process of deterioration down with treatment.
love
~LL~
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The problem is that serious chronic illness is extremely rare in the human population ater three million years of selection of the fittest weeded out most of those likely to become sick. As a result, the healthy majority cannot understand how it is possible to get sick, since no matter how much high-fat, high-glycemic index, high-salt, high trans-fat, and high phosphate food they eat, or how little exercise they do, or how much time they spend out in the sun with no sunscreen, they can't make themselves sick. So when they look at us, they can only think we must have done something very bad or stupid to get as sick as we have. They have no experience of serious illness just seeing to fall on them out of the sky, as many of us have had.
I was never overweight, took vitamins, exercised regularly, never drank alcohol, never smoked, and ate a healthy diet, but my medical chart now looks like the pathologist's report on a corpse after an autopsy, given the number of incurable diseases I have. But then I look at people living on the street, keeping themselves perpetually intoxicated by drinking mouthwash, since they can't afford liquor, and I have to recognize that they remain, even after many years of living like this, healthier than I am.
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good points, stauffenburg.
here is something i found on the 'net which helps to clear up some of the confusion about the term 'healing.' for some of us, anyway...
TEN COMMANDMENTS OF HEALING
Balfour M. Mount
Emeritus Professor of Palliative Medicine, McGill University
Copyright: American association of Cancer Educators, Journal of Cancer Education, Vol. 21 No. 1
"How important to attend to the insights of our teachers, that is to say, the men, women and children who have been our
patients and their families. We are indebted to them for the legacy they leave us. Paradoxically, their end-of-life lessons have
not been about dying, but about living. What is the core lesson they have taught us? It is that healing is the central goal of
life.
I am not speaking of physical healing, a person can die healed: what I mean by ‘healing’ is a shift in our quality of life
away from anguish and suffering, toward an experience of integrity, wholeness and inner peace. Jon Kabat-Zinn defines
healing as a process of adaptation, a “coming to terms with things as they are.”
The psyche, it would seem, has an intrinsic tendency toward healing, a will-to-wholeness, as it were. How can we experi-ence
that? How can you and I find inner peace in the turmoil of each day? Let me summarize our patients’ message to us as
“The 10 Commandments of Healing.” They are:
1. BE TRULY PRESENT TO THIS MOMENT. Healing, like love, celebration, awe, wonder and ecstasy, happens in
the now, in the present moment, free from ruminations of the past and fears about the future. As Oliver Wendell
Holmes stated it, “What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.”
And yet I find that I spend most of my time preoccupied with the past or the future. I must come into the present; be
aware of the persons and things that are around me right now.
2. TRUST. Healing involves letting go, a leap of faith, ‘diving not drowning’ as Carl Jung expressed it. Lou Gherig’s
disease patient Phil Simmons called it ‘learning to fall.’ We fall from head, to heart; from egoism and our carefully
constructed defense mechanisms, we fall into forgiveness of ourselves and others, the realization of the staggering
potential of our essential selves, and an awareness of healing connections.
We may experience these connections at four levels: a sense of connection to self (Carl Jung’s individuation); connec-tion
to others (Martin Buber’s ‘I-thou’ relating); connection to the world perceived through our senses (as with music,
or the grandeur of nature); and connection to ultimate meaning, however perceived by that person: God, the Other,
the Cosmos, the More, the unity of all things.
3. ATTEND TO YOUR WHOLE PERSON NEEDS. According to the time-honored metaphoric classification, we are
‘body, mind, and spirit’, or, ‘body, spirit and soul’, depending on you preference. We must care for our needs in each
of these domains every day.
4. OPEN TO DEEPER RELATING. Recall that our inner life is relational in its expression. It is reflected in how we
relate at the four levels noted above.
Within your religious or wisdom tradition seek out teachers who speak from personal experience, not dogma. Go to
depth. As C.S. Lewis observed, “The process of living seems to consist in coming to realize truths so ancient and sim-ple
that, if stated, they sound like barren platitudes.” Lewis continues, “They cannot sound otherwise to those who
have not had the relevant experience: that is why there is no real teaching of such truths possible and every genera-tion
starts from scratch.”
5. LISTEN TO YOUR INTUITION. As Joseph Campbell put it, “Follow your bliss.”
6. CREATE. Identify things you like to do. Make time for your creative side each day.
7. DEVELOP SELF-REFLECTIVE SKILLS. Monitor self, noting your thoughts and feelings. They are not reality.
They are your response to reality. Let go of them and come back to your centre of calm. Work on becoming self-aware
with questioning that asks, “What is my personality type and how does that influence how I feel about myself,
how I relate to others and to the situations I find myself in? What are my defenses - the walls I build to protect my-self,
but that also imprison me?”
8. BE GENTLE WITH YOURSELF. Progression toward healing is slow. Indeed, the goal is never reached. The jour-ney
is everything. You are a unique experiment in creation, with a particular potential to contribute to this world.
What is it that you alone can do, must do, if you are to fully express your potential?
9. THINK SMALL. Give up illusions of control. Recognize that we are all in the same boat, exactly the same boat.
The ego-driven values of Western culture (‘I am number one’; the need for wealth, power and control; the distrust of
all but the physical; the need to be the best in the world in what you do) stand in the way of healing.
Avoid power; neutralize the fantasies it creates in situations where it is bestowed on you. Humility and openness are
essential antecedents to healing; joy, peace and a sense of connectedness its products.
10. CELEBRATE. In the direst of circumstances, boundless peace is to be found within. Recall Viktor Frankl’s
hard-won observation, “Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of human freedoms – to
choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.” If Frankl can find life
worth celebrating in Auschwitz, chances are I can find my cup half full, perhaps full to overflowing, here and
now.
These are the 10 commandments of healing that our teachers have given us.
Healing involves a process of opening, slowing, centering, trusting, hoping and accepting. It involves recognizing
the potential that still remains, in spite of all that has been lost.
For each of us the path toward healing will be different. The most certain path I have found is meditation. I do
not imply that it is the only path. It is just the only path I know. The purpose of meditation, in its many forms, is to
create alert awareness with a still mind and presence to the moment.
There is no shortcut to healing. Carl Jung put it this way, “The attainment of wholeness requires one to stake
one’s whole being. Nothing less will do; there can be no easier conditions, no substitutes, no compromises.”
How do we find healing? We must take up the journey anew each day. What better day to recommit than today?
No-one else can do it for me. No one else can do it for you. Hillel expressed it succinctly, “If I don’t do it, who will do it? If I don’t do it right now, when will I do it?”
I wish each of you well on your journey. "
Balfour M. Mount
Emeritus Professor of Palliative Medicine, McGill University
love
~LL~
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As a result, the healthy majority cannot understand how it is possible to get sick, since no matter how much high-fat, high-glycemic index, high-salt, high trans-fat, and high phosphate food they eat, or how little exercise they do, or how much time they spend out in the sun with no sunscreen, they can't make themselves sick.
You always seem to make this an issue about "us" vs. "them."
Get real, man!
Can you say "skin cancer?" Those who sit in the sun all day without sunscreen do in fact get it. Maybe not right away, but down the road it will develope.
And let's not forget the rise in type 2 diabetes, mainly do to lifestyle choices (such as little or not exercise and eating high-fat foods).
As Pogo once said, "We're all healthy, until we get sick."
8)
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and as rodney dangerfield said, 'why should i exercise and eat healthy? no matter how well i take care of myself, the best thing i have to look forward to is getting sick, old, and dying.'
:P
it's very difficult to relate to someone's experience until you have a similar one.
it's easy for the healthy to attribute their good health to their choices and lifestyle.
sometimes, this may be the case, but genetics plays a greater role than many would
care to admit.
;)
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healing oneself through positive thought.....hmmmmm..... sounds like christian science...........don't even get me started!!!
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healing oneself through positive thought.....hmmmmm..... sounds like cristian science...........don't even get me started!!!
hhmmmmm....'christian science'....is that an oxymoron?
;D
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Psychologists and sociologists even have a term for the attitude of healthy people who attribute their good fortune to their having lived right, and the diseases of others to their having done something wrong. The concept used is the "just world hypothesis," which stipulates that people make the interpretive assumption that everything that happens must be fair, even if its fairness is not obvious or cannot be easily explained. Thus people born rich are assumed to deserve their money and to be better people, while people who are poor due to some economic catastrophe affecting their town or industry are assumed to have done something wrong. While it may make the world seem less unpredictable and frightening to assume that everythng that happens is just, in fact a huge range of phenomena are completely random or out of our control.
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yup. it's more of a crap-shoot than most like to admit.
;)
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i believe positive and negative thought can have an influence on a condition, but thats it. anyone who thinks thought alone can cure renal failure has their head way up their ass.
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If positive thought is all it takes -- what do you do for babies with cancer?
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If positive thought is all it takes -- what do you do for babies with cancer?
If positive thought is all it takes, I should be superwoman. :lol;
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As Pogo once said, "We're all healthy, until we get sick."
Not to sure who Pogo is, but I like that quote.
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healing oneself through positive thought.....hmmmmm..... sounds like christian science...........don't even get me started!!!
hhmmmmm....'christian science'....is that an oxymoron?
;D
just in case your tongue wasn't firmly planted in your cheek...............christian science, home church in boston, is a recognized religion with a rather large following. they don't believe in doctors, and believe in healing through god by the power of positive thinking..........i warned you not to get me started :oops;
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yeah, i know who and what they are, really.
but do you know if any of them have ever died?
;)
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This positive thinking stuff drives me crazy! My Mom gave me a copy of "The Secret" and tried to convince me that my kidney disease was attracted to me because of negative thinking. What a bunch of Crap. I can't believe that people buy into this. I guess its easier for some people to follow than the fact that life is random and very, very, very unfair.
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yeah, i know who and what they are, really.
but do you know if any of them have ever died?
;)
Wouldnt that defeat their purpose, if they let it out someone died? :rofl;
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This positive thinking stuff drives me crazy! My Mom gave me a copy of "The Secret" and tried to convince me that my kidney disease was attracted to me because of negative thinking. What a bunch of Crap. I can't believe that people buy into this. I guess its easier for some people to follow than the fact that life is random and very, very, very unfair.
Oh, HOGWASH! There certainly is a mind/body connection, and worry and stress can affect the body, but all of the positive thinking in the world is not going to prevent all disease or make your life all rosy.
"Expecting life to be fair because you're a good person, is like expecting the bull not to charge because you're a vegetarian." I don't remember where I read that but I love it!
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If positive thought is all it takes -- what do you do for babies with cancer?
If positive thought is all it takes, I should be superwoman. :lol;
Me too!
Super positive women unite!! :bandance;
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yeah, the 'secret' was a big scam aimed at the people that feel so powerless in their lives.
sure, being positive is always better than being mr or ms 'doom and gloom.' but no amount of positive thinking will heal damaged kidneys or other chronic conditions. a positive attitude will help one cope with the turmoil of having your life disrupted by such conditions, perhaps, but even the most positive people get sick and die, like everyone does, eventually.
i wrote to deepak chopra, just out of interest, to see what he had to say on the subject.
he does have a vested interest in this kind of thing, so his reply to me was quite political and non-conclusive, as you might expect.
;)
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What really made me real angry with this site is the idea folks make themselves ill with negative thinking. Guess my dad must have had some real negative thoughts when I was conceived 'cause I have PKD!
What morons! Bet some of them still believe leprosy is caused by sin!
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yeah, i know who and what they are, really.
but do you know if any of them have ever died?
;)
yes, my grandmother, but then she did let my mother take her to the hospital. and if i believed the way she does, i'd be dead by now.
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Well, here's my letter to and response from Deepak Chopra, the grand poohba of that website, himeself.
I have to say that I do have respect for him and the work he does, mostly, and I'm not surprised at his response, knowing that he does have an agenda to promote this kind of thing.
Dear Deepak. I have been advised that my condition of ESRD ('End Stage Renal Disease) could be healed by my mind, with positive thinking, visualisations and prayer.
Is this possible and how does it work?
And if so, why has no one done it?
thank you
Wayne Wilson
Dear Wayne,
I have not met anyone who has healed ESRD mentally, so I couldn't attest to what you have been advised about. As to whether it is possible, I would say it is theoretically possible because through the mind-body connection our thoughts effect our neurotransmitters and hormones and consequently impact our biology.
Love,
Deepak
what a surprise hey? ;)
'theoretically' possible, hm?
like the areonautic experts state that a bumble-bee, 'theoretically', should not be able to fly.
:rofl;
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Hey folks, is it really worth the time and effort to argue with these people
who believe that all illness is mentally based because of "negative thoughts"?
It one of us get sicker it's because of those "negative thoughts", and if
anyone gets better from any illness they attribute it to "positive thought",
not the physicians or medicines that cure us. It's a belief system and therefore
viturally impossible to argure with because it's based on beliefs, not rational
thought processes.
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in case you haven't noticed yet, stevie, that's what humans do, its how they learn and hopefully, grow.
its called 'discussion' and its what is usually done on 'discussion boards' like this one, and some others too. you don't have to participate or even look at it, if you don't want to, but i doubt there's much profit or gain in telling others not to do what you don't like doing, is there?
;)
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LL, This is why I would rather discuss issues face to face rather than on
this type of forum. It is sometimes hard to get a point across. I greatly enjoy
the give and take of discussion and am certainly not telling you or anyone else
not to discuss. My point is that the persons in your other on-line group are
similar to religious persons and have a thought pattern based on a non-rational
belief. It is up to any of us to choose to have a belief which is non empirical.
Your original posting was about the difficulty of discussion with the "Chopra"
group. My question is still: Can you present logical arguments to cause individual
to change their beliefs? In my own life, as a non religious person, I do not or
would not challenge the basic beliefs of a religious person. Steve
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i hear you steve, but i am of another 'school'. i believe that beliefs should ALWAYS be challenged, regardles, and perhaps -especially- if they are 'religiously' held and defended.
to each his/her own, as they say. but i'm with you on religion. i love the old greek guys, the masters of logic...
'religion is, to the intelligent; true- to the wise; false- to the leader; uselful'
;)
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LL, thanks for the reply. My main concern with anyone who has a belief system is
the exterior consequences of that system. I really don't care is someone tells me
I'm going to hell because I don't believe as they do because I don't believe in
hell. However when that same person fouls the environment because the
"end of days" is coming soon, or forbids a gay man or lesbian to visit the
hospital room of an ill partner because of their "sinful" acts, then I certainly
feel like challenging their belief. When basic humanity is denied I would
of course agreed with you with your challenge.
By the way I recently read in the paper that a study concluded that there
is no difference in the life span of seriously ill people depending on their
attitude, either positive or negative. Steve
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Things, bad things sometimes, happen to people. We are people, so they are as likely to happen to us as to anyone. Does the child with leukemia bring on the illness with a negative attitude? Of course not. Nor have we brought on renal disease with a negative attitude.
Can a positive attitude help us deal with the problems we face. You betcha! Did a negative attutude bring on the disease? No way./bobt
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I was very upset when my dad talked to my aunt who is a shaman when I was first diagnosed. She went on to him about how I did it to myself and it was my negative thinking and basically that it was all my fault. It's very easy for someone to say that who hasn't dealt with a serious illness and I think it's very disrespectful.
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Hey Lightlizard - Just wanted you to know I feel your quandry. I saw that the link was had the word "Chopra" in it and didn't bother. Sorry. When I was 21 I was diagnosed with Addison's in addition to my ever failing kidneys. My Dad decided to be "helpful" and send me to a Tony Robbins seminar where Deepak Chopra was speaking. This was in 1992. At this seminar I was to walk over hot coals (literally), stop (yes STOP) taking all of my medicine because it was toxic, and of course think myself well. WTF!!!! Let me say it again WTF!!! Thank God I have at least one pea rolling around in my nogin. Because, had I done those things it would have been a death wish. My Dad was dissappointed that I left the seminar early. I just could not take the insanity anymore. I agree that a positive mental outlook is important, not that I ever had one :lol;. Anyways, don't get dug in too deep over there in Chopra land. Let one of them get sick and see how quickly they can think their way out of it. I've been trying for 37 years.
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hey thanks LuLu. yeah, between the shamans and the self-help gurus there's a real lack of life experience that clouds their logic centers, i think.
before i got sick i admit that i did consider myself a 'healer' of sorts. in my tai chi and qigong practice, which i made a living by for a number of years, i developed my own version of therapeutic touch that involved changing the flow of clients' energy through conscious manipulation. one woman i worked with had a very interesting experience during a session. she could feel the pain of her fibromyalgia being 'pulled out' of her back. strangely, i hadn't told her what i was doing, but i was standing behind her and consciously pulling it out of her at the time. she had been suffering from it for 15 years, and after that session, it never returned. of course, she also made drastic alterations to her diet, which had been a source of massive weight gain and other health complications for her, too.
kidney failure brought me back to earth, you could say. good thing too, or i could have been lost forever in the void with the other shamaniacs.
;)
love
~LL~
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Hi Lightlizard,
Be proud for being an alternative healer. You provided a great service for those people.My whole life I have tried everything, reiki, cranial sacral,meditation, prayer, "positive thinking," vitamins, herbs, chinese medicine, acupunture, diet, even macro-biotic diets, I tried every oil, potion and lotion out there. I finally came to the conclusion that some of those things certainly ease my pain and some of them cause grave danger by messing with my electrolytes and kidneys. I really wish some of these groups like Deepak Chopra would ackowledge that there is no end all, be all, cure all. Disease, illness, death they happen and sometimes unfortuneately they happen to incredible people. It is not their fault.
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we've been on similar paths, lulu. ;)
yes, i do cherish the memories of those days when working with my friends, students and clients.
even watching the wonderful transformation that people go thru when learning tai chi or qigong is a joyous and uplifting experience.
i thin a lot of healers would have more credibility if they worked under the title of 'complementary medicine' rather than 'alternative medicine.'
both allopathic and holistic medicine have their time and place. in europe, they strive to work together.
even in china, several hospitals there actually give the patients a choice of western or eastern methods of treatment, or even allow them to combine the two, if necessary.
in the west, medicine is often shaped by the 'bottom line' -the profit margin, and so, competition between the different methods can often complicate a patients journey.
love
~LL~
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At German medical schools they teach homeopathic medicine as a regular part of the curriculum, and in France and England there are also licensed medical doctors who specialize in homeopathic treatment. I have tried the whole gamut of alternative therapists, however, and I never found the least benefit from following all of their prescriptions to the letter -- in the case of my homeopathic doctor, for two years! Once when my homeopathic doctor left me alone in her office to attend to some business, I looked through the stack of her patients' medical records on the desk, complete with detailed laboratory studies in every case. There was not a single patient who came to her with the least abnormality in their bloodwork, at least of the cases I was able to sample! She was simply treating people who had functional symptoms or who thought they were sick, or wanted to be pampered by posing as sick, so of course she was nearly always successful. But as soon as she had a genuine problem to deal with, she could do nothing.
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i hear that one, stauffenburg. there are many charlatans of varying shape and size out there.
but, to be fair, allopathic doctors don't have all the anwers, either. my first endoctrinologist, who had been practicing for over 25 years when i saw him, prescribed me a med that had side effects that were listed as 'fatal for patients with kidney problems.'
i think the stats show that in the USA, 100,000 people die yearly from wrongful perscription drugs.
but yes, most of the holistic methods do work with the attitude, more than the biology of a patient, and could be viewed as 'placebo' in their effects. if it works, it works. if it doesn't, there's always another way, hopefully.
love
~LL~
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we've been on similar paths, lulu. ;)
i think a lot of healers would have more credibility if they worked under the title of 'complementary medicine' rather than 'alternative medicine.'
Very true LL, very true.