I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: General Discussion => Topic started by: Zach on August 27, 2006, 09:45:32 PM
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My Albumin was as high as 4.2 for a while. But now it tends to hover around 4.0
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mine was 3.7 last month .. if I am reading it right
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Could be over here in the UK the decimal point is not there :o So that makes mine, if so 40. Will not do the poll just in case I am wrong. But been told 40 is OK for a renal patient.
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4.2 here
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A while back mine was a 3.2 but have been working on bringing it up
and it is now a 3.7. Trying to get it to a 4.
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4.2 here
How do you do it BigSky? You stated before in another post that you consume about 120-130 grams of protein/day.
I know you use a protein powder. How many meals do you have ... three regular of five small?
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Could be over here in the UK the decimal point is not there :o So that makes mine, if so 40. Will not do the poll just in case I am wrong. But been told 40 is OK for a renal patient.
I think the UK measure the same as Canada and mine is 37 which I figure was 3.7 in US standards which would make yours 4.0 I think :P
I can't find out til 2 weeks :(
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4.2 here
How do you do it BigSky? You stated before in another post that you consume about 120-130 grams of protein/day.
I know you use a protein powder. How many meals do you have ... three regular of five small?
I do 5-6 small meals. Makes it much easier to control my PO4 because the binders are divided over smaller amounts of PO4 and not dealing with huge amounts from only 3 meals.
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Much appreciated!
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The following site explains more about serum albumin levels in dialysis patients:
http://www.kidney.org/professionals/kdoqi/guidelines_updates/nut_a03.html
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And remember, albumin is not raised by short term eating, as is phosphorus and potassium. It takes weeks of eating enough protein to raise the albumin levels. Those levels are also affected by inflammation, so they're not the best marker for nutritional status.
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And remember, albumin is not raised by short term eating, as is phosphorus and potassium. It takes weeks of eating enough protein to raise the albumin levels. Those levels are also affected by inflammation, so they're not the best marker for nutritional status.
Also any infections and your liver produces different chemicals and your albumin levels will drop.
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My husband has had a terrible time with protein. When I finally got him home from the nursing home - the food was terrible - it was 2.5 and he had developed pressures sores. The dietition wants him to have 80 grams of protein a day. It was just too much to consume so I found Prostat. It is a liquid supplement with nothing else in it. You only use 3 oz. and he mixes it in his soft drink. He says you can't tell it's even there. Now he is up to 3.0 - we're making headway. The thing is lots of people won't use the protein supplement because it is not covered by insurance. I use my flex plan to cover it. Pressure sores are gone and his last fistula surgery healed so fast it was unbelievable.
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The dietition wants him to have 80 grams of protein a day. It was just too much to consume so I found Prostat. It is a liquid supplement with nothing else in it. You only use 3 oz. and he mixes it in his soft drink. He says you can't tell it's even there. Now he is up to 3.0 - we're making headway.
That's great. Do you have any info on Prostat you can share with us?
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You can get Prostat from CWI Medical online. You can get regular and sugar free and different flavors. I notice they now have renal formula. Depending upon what kind, it runs about $30.00 a bottle. I usually buy a case as it is a little cheaper and I don't have to keep ordering. If really has worked wonders and my husband says it you can't even taste it in softdrink.
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Mine is 3.5
I'll have to watch that now - it's already at the low end of normal, and I just got back a high phos level for the first time, so I have to start really watching all the "bad" protein that I love so much, and eat too much! (No more cheese or peanut butter - waaaaahhhh!)
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The dietition wants him to have 80 grams of protein a day. It was just too much to consume so I found Prostat. It is a liquid supplement with nothing else in it. You only use 3 oz. and he mixes it in his soft drink. He says you can't tell it's even there. Now he is up to 3.0 - we're making headway.
That's great. Do you have any info on Prostat you can share with us?
http://www.cwimedical.com/prostat1.html
Pro Stat Renal care, here is the nutritional information. It is all on the web site.
http://www.cwimedical.com/prc.html
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Thanks AlasdairUK!
:beer1;
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Is a Albumin level of 3.8 pre dialysis ok?
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Is a Albumin level of 3.8 pre dialysis ok?
yes according to what I looked up last year (http://angiee1973.proboards42.com/index.cgi?board=labdiscussion&action=display&thread=1160744820): Albumin 3.8-5.5 gm/dl for dialysis patients.
and according to BigSky's post I use as reference: http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=1844.msg24861#msg24861
Mine is on the low side of the range as well this month.
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Mine is 4.2
I understand "normal" is anything 3.7 and above. I'm sure there is a high end, but never having been there.................
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I had to use a converter and thought I would share it here so even Canadian's and people in the UK can share in this thread ;)
http://www.vin.com/scripts/labquest/converthtml.pl
According to this mine is 3.3 g/dl which is low. :(
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Mine ranges from 3.5 to 3.7 am always told this is very good. :yahoo;
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As of my last monthly report my albumin level was 3.5, which I was told was very low! My dietician suggested that increasing this number would prevent me from being so suceptible to illnesses as I go through my chemo.
I'm eating a whole lotta egg whites (I throw out the yolk b/c my cholesterol is high); I've also started to supplement my protein intake with nepro nutritional shakes and balance protein bars. Hopefully this will do the trick. I guess well find out shortly as my chemo is scheduled for later this week.
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As of my last monthly report my albumin level was 3.5, which I was told was very low! My dietician suggested that increasing this number would prevent me from being so suceptible to illnesses as I go through my chemo.
I'm eating a whole lotta egg whites (I throw out the yolk b/c my cholesterol is high); I've also started to supplement my protein intake with nepro nutritional shakes and balance protein bars. Hopefully this will do the trick. I guess well find out shortly as my chemo is scheduled for later this week.
While nepro is good to a degree.
If that doesnt bring it up you might move to a protein powder. Some of the best for protein to K and PO4 content or Designer Whey, Optimum Nutrition gold whey and Cytosport.
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4.0 is fine, theres no need to worry or go out and buy a whole store of protein powder. You only need to worry if it goes under 3.5.
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4.0 is the goal set by the National Kidney Foundation (U.S.).
"Although no single ideal measure of nutritional status exists, the serum albumin concentration is considered to be a useful indicator of protein-energy nutritional status in maintenance dialysis patients."
The range is 3.8 - 5.1 G/DL
If a person's albumin level is at 3.7 or lower, then some intervention is appropriate, such as adding more protein to the diet.
People on hemodialysis need to take in about 1.2 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight. As an example, I weigh 77.5 kgs, so my protein intake needs to be about 93 grams of protein a day. That's a lot, so along with the three meals a day, I include a two snacks a day: one a protein bar and the other a protein shake.
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93gms of protein isnt alot if you have a big steak or similar ;D
Anywhere within the range of "normal" is acceptable. Everyone is different. If it is staying within the limits with your current diet, it is not necessary to go out and buy special protein products, its just a waste of time and money.
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93gms of protein isnt alot if you have a big steak or similar ;D
Anywhere within the range of "normal" is acceptable. Everyone is different. If it is staying within the limits with your current diet, it is not necessary to go out and buy special protein products, its just a waste of time and money.
Actually dialysis patients are suggested to have albumins over 4.0. It has to do with death rate associated with albumin levels.
Patients with albumin under 3.5 have(if I remember correctly) 20 times greater death rate vs those over 4 and those between 3.5-3.9 have a death rate double of that those over 4.
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Is a low albumin level dangerous? How do you get it to go up?
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Is a low albumin level dangerous? How do you get it to go up?
I believe by eating more protein ;) Danally, please go to the Introduce Yourself section and tell us a little about yourself, it will also allow us to formally welcome you to the site. ;) Hope to hear more from you soon :thumbup;
Goofynina/Admin.
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I'm at 3.1, and thats an improvement for me.
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My dad is at 3.2 . He needs to eat more protein
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93gms of protein isnt alot if you have a big steak or similar ;D
Anywhere within the range of "normal" is acceptable. Everyone is different. If it is staying within the limits with your current diet, it is not necessary to go out and buy special protein products, its just a waste of time and money.
Actually dialysis patients are suggested to have albumins over 4.0. It has to do with death rate associated with albumin levels.
Patients with albumin under 3.5 have(if I remember correctly) 20 times greater death rate vs those over 4 and those between 3.5-3.9 have a death rate double of that those over 4.
By "normal" I meant normal for dialysis patients. Obviously most of us may not get within normal healthy people limits.
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By "normal" I meant normal for dialysis patients. Obviously most of us may not get within normal healthy people limits.
Not sure what you mean?
Normal healthy people range is 3.6-5.0.
For dialysis patients it the recommend ideal is 4.0 or higher due to the increased risks of death that are attributed to levels below 4. At a minimum it is recommended not to be below 3.7
It is recommended 1.2 grams protein per kilo of dry weight. If albumin levels are low it is said to go to 1.5grams or higher of protein per kilo of dry weight.
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Thanks to all the advice here- three months ago my husband level was 3.1--so I added a protien shake, plus a bit more meat, the next month--3.2, then it was up to 3.4, then I added one of those chocolate chunky protien bars (which he loves very much) that Big Sky mentioned,now this time its up to 3.7-yeaaaaaaa!!! my goal for him is 4.2, I think we may add some extra eggs, his cholesterol is 166- so he can have them...Thanks for all the great advice.
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Mine is 3.3 but I just talked to the unit and they say here anything over 3.0 is considered good.
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Mine is 3.3 but I just talked to the unit and they say here anything over 3.0 is considered good.
Is Canada's measurement for Albumin in g/dL ? Such as 3.3 g/dL?
Or mmol/L.
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I really have to keep at it to make sure I have an albumin of 4. I was at 4 for a while but then it seemed to drop to 3.7 which is OK , but the magic number is 4 and after taking protein shakes I have it back at 4. Albumin takes a long time to rise as far as I know it takes a long time before it goes up or down from the amount of protein you eat unless you get an infection and then it drops quickly.
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Albumin takes a long time to rise as far as I know it takes a long time before it goes up or down from the amount of protein you eat unless you get an infection and then it drops quickly.
You've got that right, my friend!
:beer1;
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My Albumin Level:
2/6/07 at 4.2
3/5/07 at 4.0
4/2/07 at 4.1
I use the "Phoslo" guide given to me from my dietitian at the center. One page is "Protein Finder", another is "Potassium Finder", and "Phosphorus Finder".
I work from the "High Protein" foods list which also tells you what has extra Potassium or Phosphorus and subtract them from the list and what's left is what i eat in portion sizes.
I buy eggs on sale or get them from pantries that i go to, i seperate the yolk from the whites and disguard the yolk. here's one way i drink 5 egg whites at one time.
I break open 5 eggs and put only the whites in a blender with some frozen berries (variety) with some soy milk for added flavor or use filtered water and blend then drink this.
I buy extra lean steak and boneless chic breasts
Top sirloin, lamb loin lean, turkey light/dark, lean lamb shoulder, Sole,Pollock, Ocean Perch, Flounder, Cod, white bread, spaghetti, white rice.
there's a entire food list of good protein food without additives or subs. All natural protein.
This is the main website from the posters i have but i can't find it at the website maybe you can for your reference: www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp.
hope this helps.
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Zach, I found out it is g/dL.
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Mine is 3.3 but I just talked to the unit and they say here anything over 3.0 is considered good.
If the number you posted is just this month, it might be a lab error or inflammation. But if this is the albumin for several months, you may want to get a second opinion on what is considered "good." The Kidney Foundation of Canada follows the U.S Guidelines for people on dialysis.
http://www.kidney.org/patients/pdf/ff_wi07.pdf
Please take a look at page 3, lower half.
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Now what are you talking about? Inflammation?
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I went from 3.1 last month to 3.5 this month. :clap; Of course my phosphorus went from 2.8 to 3.5, because I mostly ate dairy/cheese, but still that's not too bad.
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Acceptable blood levels for dialysis patients are usually not the same as the "normal" range. Not everything of course. That is what I meant.
By "normal" I meant normal for dialysis patients. Obviously most of us may not get within normal healthy people limits.
Not sure what you mean?
Normal healthy people range is 3.6-5.0.
For dialysis patients it the recommend ideal is 4.0 or higher due to the increased risks of death that are attributed to levels below 4. At a minimum it is recommended not to be below 3.7
It is recommended 1.2 grams protein per kilo of dry weight. If albumin levels are low it is said to go to 1.5grams or higher of protein per kilo of dry weight.
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I buy eggs on sale or get them from pantries that i go to, i seperate the yolk from the whites and disguard the yolk. here's one way i drink 5 egg whites at one time.
I break open 5 eggs and put only the whites in a blender with some frozen berries (variety) with some soy milk for added flavor or use filtered water and blend then drink this.
Raw eggs? That can't be healthy! Our immune system is not strong enough to take that when we're on dialysis. Aren't you worried about getting food poisoning?
My albumin levels are dropping. (I've had to cut out the peanut butter, milk and cheese to keep my phosphorous down.) My dietitian gave me some samples of ProCel protein powder. Bleeech! It smells like fish bait to me. So far, I've tried it mixed in milk over my cereal. I gave up and had toast. Anyone got any better ideas for a better tasting powder? I'm going to try mixing it into something with a stronger flavor, to see if it disappears that way, but I'm not counting on it!
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Jbeany I think it was Big sky and Zach who recommended the bars and shakes- my husband does the ZOIC brand shake( I buy at Winn Dixie) and the Met RX Chocolate Chunk -both of which are not high in either PO4 or Potassium-his level is 3.7 again this month but has climbed the last four monthes from 3.2-now we are adding daily eggs. He says those bars are like candy- he eats them as a snack.
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There is egg white powder in the baking aisle that can be added to other foods or made into an omelet. It works if used regularly. It is called 'Just Whites'. It also does not have a bad flavor or smell.
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thanks for the ideas, ladies. I'm supposed to go grocery shopping tomorrow, so I'll see what I can find around here.
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Mine's 39 (3.9).. I try to eat a lot of chicken for the protein
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I just looked at my labs from today. My Albumin has gone from 3.1 to 4.0 in one month!!! Thank you Muscle Milk!! And thank you Zach for posting about it. :2thumbsup;
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gees after reading this thread i noticed my albumin is the highest here!! its 4.8! ;D
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gees after reading this thread i noticed my albumin is the highest here!! its 4.8! ;D
thats really wonderful-may it stay high for a long time to come!!! :bandance;
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Mine is 4.3
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gees after reading this thread i noticed my albumin is the highest here!! its 4.8! ;D
Jeeeeesh. That is higher than alot of people who have no kidney problems.
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While maintaining the albumin level above a certain minimum is important as a measure of adequate nutrition, pushing it higher and higher is not a good idea, since the creatinine level will rise along with it. Albumin is protein; creatinine is a by-product of protein metabolism; and in renal patients, the creatinine level is abnormally high because this toxin is not being cleared by the kidneys, and high creatine levels have been linked to many of the complications dialysis patients experience.
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gees after reading this thread i noticed my albumin is the highest here!! its 4.8! ;D
Jeeeeesh. That is higher than alot of people who have no kidney problems.
Yes i eat at least a cow a day ;) ;D
Well i do eat a lot of protein for every meal. Fish, chicken, and meat. And i think having a high Album is why i have done so well.
While maintaining the albumin level above a certain minimum is important as a measure of adequate nutrition, pushing it higher and higher is not a good idea, since the creatinine level will rise along with it. Albumin is protein; creatinine is a by-product of protein metabolism; and in renal patients, the creatinine level is abnormally high because this toxin is not being cleared by the kidneys, and high creatine levels have been linked to many of the complications dialysis patients experience.
yes i agree with what you said, but every dialysis patient is different i guess and my doctor thinks that my albumin is perfect at that level, and my creatnine being high isn't a problem because i dialyse more than the average person. And without that extra protein i would not be cabable of training 6 days a week. :)
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Bleah, I'm still working on getting mine up. I tried the protein powder -"just sprinkle it on your food."- yuck! I tried the protein bars that the nutritionist claimed were "just like a candy bar!" Ewwww - what candy is she eating that tastes like that? I'm supposed to be eating 80 grams of meat/protein a day. I'm lucky if I get half that. :P
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I crave protein sometimes and will eat it morning, noon and night. I guess it has been good for me. My albumin levels are up.
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Had a blood test Tuesday and mine was 4.6, and the test before that was 5.0
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:banghead; This is me, banging my head against the fridge.
My last albumin was 3.5. I had a long discussion with my dietitian about ways to increase it. She was worried that it was on a downward trend, and that it was going to start dropping even further. So I spent the last month trying the protein powders and protein bars, upping my intake of meat, adding extra egg whites to anything I've baked...blah, blah, blah. Tuesday was the monthly blood draw, and what exactly have my efforts done for me? My phosphorous is now back up over the correct range. I've stopped losing weight because the calorie intake went up with the increased protein, and my calcium is too high thanks to an excess of phoslo. (I take 2 with a snack, 3 with a low-phos meal, and 4 with a high phos meal. Naturally, I've been taking 4 with all the extra meat.) And after all that - my albumin level is. . . .(drum roll, please. . . .) 3.6.
Sooooo worth the effort.
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But Jbeany, just think what it could've been if you hadn't consumed that extra protein, might've been too low, right? ;) ;)
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Zach posted earlier that it takes a long time to raise the level- my husbands is going up very slowly too, but it IS rising.
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:bump;
The more you know ....
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If you are fluid overloaded when you have a blood test, the albumin level will come up as lower than it really is, as the blood is "diluted".
Albumin is extremely important, as it controls the water in our blood. Without enough albumin (as in a case of nephrotic syndrome), the water does not go to the blood, so you are dry, and have low blood pressure, but instead goes to the tissues, and causes odema. My baby was born with congenital nephrotic syndrome, he was diagnosed at 2 months old, and at that point his albumin was 8 (we are in the UK, so it is measured differently). He was in critical condition, but fortunately the fluid hadn't gone to the lungs.
You can increase the albumin by increasing the protein intake (if indeed it is low) but our doctors are always cautious, as protein brings the urea up too.
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93gms of protein isnt alot if you have a big steak or similar ;D
Of course not.
But the more protein you eat, the more phosphorus you're consuming, which isn't great either. And phosphorus binders don't bind all that phosphorus, just part of it.
So I find myself walking a tightrope between avoiding too much phosphorus and avoiding too little albumin.
I've computed the ratio of phosphorus to protein in various protein-containing foods I like to eat. Chicken seems to offer the least phosphorus per ounce of protein, eggs the most phosphorus per ounce of protein. So I try to get most protein from chicken.
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I think for eggs it varies considerably between the white and the yolk. If I remember correctly my dietician told me that egg yolks had little phosphorous; it was all in the white. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
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I've computed the ratio of phosphorus to protein in various protein-containing foods I like to eat. Chicken seems to offer the least phosphorus per ounce of protein, eggs the most phosphorus per ounce of protein. So I try to get most protein from chicken.
Could you share that chart with us, RightSide?
Thanks.
I think for eggs it varies considerably between the white and the yolk. If I remember correctly my dietician told me that egg yolks had little phosphorous; it was all in the white. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
Actually, quite the opposite. Egg whites contain little phosphorus, but almost all the potassium.
8)
Large Egg, white, raw, fresh:
Protein 3.6 grams
Phosphorus 5 mg
Potassium 54 mg
Large Egg, yolk, raw, fresh
Protein 2.7 grams
Phosphorus 66 mg
Potassium 19 mg
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
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hi,
I feel as though my protein levels have been good because I am lucky! I guess my trick is, even if you eat veggies, certain veggies, I dip them in egg and then breadcrumb and either fry them or bake them in the oven like that. So, I am getting my protein from the egg and the meat. You can do this same thing with boneless skinless chicken or whatever meat you got. and try to cheat less.
Lisa
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My albumin level seems to hover around 4.0-4.1, but there is an occasional month when it has dropped to 3.9.
Just today, my dietician gave me some new evidence that too much protein can also be bad for you! (Oh, man!)
I'll post more on this when I get a chance.
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Perhaps maybe a high protein is bad because it is too high because the dialysis is not taking it off because you are not getting enough dialysis? That would make sense to me because protein goes though the dialysis. I have always have heard that Albumin is the 'number one indicator of death for dialysis patients.'
Lisa
My albumin level seems to hover around 4.0-4.1, but there is an occasional month when it has dropped to 3.9.
Just today, my dietician gave me some new evidence that too much protein can also be bad for you! (Oh, man!)
I'll post more on this when I get a chance.