-=-=-=-=- Davita, 2005 Las Vegas Convention SCREENSHOTS! -=-=-=-=-

[sandman]

You're not asking about renal failure in this thread are you? You were asking about Davita correct? So did you at least read the links I gave you? And if not why didn't you, and if you did what do you think of davita now?

I'm sorry sandmansa you are an outsider. Until you have needles stuck in you for dialysis, or a tube coming out if your stomach, Marry Angie, OR until you at the VERY least live in the same COUNTRY as Angie, you ARE an outsider. I'm sorry but it's true. I'm not trying to be mean. I like you, I really do. You can understand the medical portion of our strife and you can become very educated on ESRD, but you can not understand the emotional aspect, the emotional strain on our Psyche. Here's another example: I can explain to you how much it sucks to be in a wheelchair, BUT even if you sit in my wheelchair for 24 hours, you know at the end of those 24 hours you WILL be able to get up and go for a run. So no matter what I tell you about how it sucks to not be able to walk or the struggles I face everyday you will never understand unless you end up in a wheelchair yourself. Does that make any sense?

So let me know what you think of davita after you read those links I provided.

Gerrrr!  Your telling me that I need to contract kidney disease, marry Angie or at least, move to her country to earn your respect?  You just make me want to yell obscenities at you, you know that?  Yes, I was just asking about Davita in this thread.  And yes, I did read the links you provided and yes, I have read most of them before.  Most of them are just about impersonal gripes about how the Davita cooperation has made some of you feel disrespected or like a piece of shit.  Well, I can sympathize with you there but does that make them something that should be avoided?  Maybe or maybe not.  There was one or two that made me worry.  One in particular was the one where those on private insurance would get treated like royalty where everyone else would be treated like a dog.  What I am mainly concerned about is the level of care someone could or would receive from one of their clinics.  The reason for my asking that is because Angie has expressed interest in moving to Philadelphia and there are a few Davita clinics in my area, among others.  What I want to know is what kind of treatment should Angie and I expect from Davita IF Davita was to become an option?

I don't mean to sound insulting here but please stop telling me what can and can't understand.  I already told you in my last post that I know that I can't comprehend what is like to live without kidneys or to be on dialysis.  Your 100% right about this but I can learn most other aspects.  Oh, and for your information, I do know what it's like to be in a wheelchair.  Not because I couldn't stand or walk at all.  It was because I had no sense of balance and couldn't walk because of it.  I suffered from an inner ear infection when I was a kid, that rendered me completely deaf and without a sense of balance for nearly a year.  So just like how you can not help me to understand the emotional aspect of being a renal patient, I can not help you to understand the emotional aspect of being stone deaf or to throw up on yourself every stinking day for nearly a year because you were so dizzy that you didn't know which way was up.  I am not an outcast, I am a human being just like everyone else damn it and I only expect to be treated as human being.

[kitkatz]

I am not sure if I should butt in here, but here goes.
Sandman, I know you are an understanding person otherwise the minute you heard Angie had kidney failure you would have turned around and run. It takes a special person to stick it out through the viciousness of a disease in someone you love. I wish you luck in that area.

Davita has a strong presence in the dialysis community because of its becoming one of the largest dialysis providers in the United States.  Currently they are purchasing dialysis centers and refurbishing them to Davita codes. (What ever that is.)  If you really want the low down on Davita go look them up. They have a HUGE website with links to everything. I think what you want to know - the basics about Davita- will have to be found through careful research on the web.  All we can give you here is basic personal things we know about the company.  And you know we are an opinionated lot of people here on the web.

http://www.davita.com/     I know this is probably a duh! link but here it is anyway
Katherine

[Epoman]

You're not asking about renal failure in this thread are you? You were asking about Davita correct? So did you at least read the links I gave you? And if not why didn't you, and if you did what do you think of davita now?

I'm sorry sandmansa you are an outsider. Until you have needles stuck in you for dialysis, or a tube coming out if your stomach, Marry Angie, OR until you at the VERY least live in the same COUNTRY as Angie, you ARE an outsider. I'm sorry but it's true. I'm not trying to be mean. I like you, I really do. You can understand the medical portion of our strife and you can become very educated on ESRD, but you can not understand the emotional aspect, the emotional strain on our Psyche. Here's another example: I can explain to you how much it sucks to be in a wheelchair, BUT even if you sit in my wheelchair for 24 hours, you know at the end of those 24 hours you WILL be able to get up and go for a run. So no matter what I tell you about how it sucks to not be able to walk or the struggles I face everyday you will never understand unless you end up in a wheelchair yourself. Does that make any sense?

So let me know what you think of davita after you read those links I provided.

Gerrrr!  Your telling me that I need to contract kidney disease, marry Angie or at least, move to her country to earn your respect?  You just make me want to yell obscenities at you, you know that?  Yes, I was just asking about Davita in this thread.  And yes, I did read the links you provided and yes, I have read most of them before.  Most of them are just about impersonal gripes about how the Davita cooperation has made some of you feel disrespected or like a piece of shit.  Well, I can sympathize with you there but does that make them something that should be avoided?  Maybe or maybe not.  There was one or two that made me worry.  One in particular was the one where those on private insurance would get treated like royalty where everyone else would be treated like a dog.  What I am mainly concerned about is the level of care someone could or would receive from one of their clinics.  The reason for my asking that is because Angie has expressed interest in moving to Philadelphia and there are a few Davita clinics in my area, among others.  What I want to know is what kind of treatment should Angie and I expect from Davita IF Davita was to become an option?

I don't mean to sound insulting here but please stop telling me what can and can't understand.  I already told you in my last post that I know that I can't comprehend what is like to live without kidneys or to be on dialysis.  Your 100% right about this but I can learn most other aspects.  Oh, and for your information, I do know what it's like to be in a wheelchair.  Not because I couldn't stand or walk at all.  It was because I had no sense of balance and couldn't walk because of it.  I suffered from an inner ear infection when I was a kid, that rendered me completely deaf and without a sense of balance for nearly a year.  So just like how you can not help me to understand the emotional aspect of being a renal patient, I can not help you to understand the emotional aspect of being stone deaf or to throw up on yourself every stinking day for nearly a year because you were so dizzy that you didn't know which way was up.  I am not an outcast, I am a human being just like everyone else damn it and I only expect to be treated as human being.

Man you just don't get it do you? You expect me to feel sorry for you for being deaf for a year and had no sense of balance when you were a kid? And you think because you were in a wheelchair as a kid for a year, you know what it is like to be in a wheelchair for LIFE when you are a father or have to have your wife push you around because your arms get tired. You threw up for a year, big deal. Do me a favor and next time you take a nice long morning piss, think of me. Yes you're a human being like everyone else on the site except for the fact you have no kidney disease and in reality you are only connected in a tiny way via Angie whom you see what maybe once, twice a year?.

Your statment about Davita just proves to me that you really don't understand what I am talking about:

Most of them are just about impersonal gripes about how the Davita cooperation has made some of you feel disrespected or like a piece of shit.  Well, I can sympathize with you there but does that make them something that should be avoided?

Look sandmansa maybe this isn't the board for you. The only reason you are on this site is because of Angie and you know it. Hopefully you will not encourage Angie to leave, since she really likes it here and she adds to this community. Seriously why not join a forum that shares a common bond with you?

I will not allow this flame war to continue much longer. You hi-jacked this thread from the 1st reply and like I said it I won't allow this to continue much longer. You said your peace I said my peace, I don't have time for this bullshit. NOW MOVE ON! 

[Epoman]

I'm curious as to you were able to take the pictures since it was for staff only and not patients. Is there a story there?

Mom 3

http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=736.0 - This thread should answer your question. 

[Bajanne]

Do these people not know how to have fun without unnecessary extravagance and without losing their dignity?  We can't expect them to respect their patients when they apparently have no respect for themselves.  It appears they are immature, wasteful, ridiculous and many seem to be engaging in behavior which appears to almost breach the borderline of debauchery.

Could not have said it better.  The problem with megalomania is that these people start to believe their own hype.  No doubt the CEO of Davita thinks that he is a benign and caring 'mayor' of his village.  But one wonders - if he is the mayor, and his workers are the ones who are feted and feasted, who or what are the patients?

[Mom3]

Thanks. There is so much out there that I confess I haven't read it all yet. I do understand better I think. Wondered if you'd somehow slipped in or something!

I too am agonizing over Davita. I have no doubt that their corporation is a mess. Enron is a good analogy perhaps, but I do wonder if the quality varies from clinic to clinic or are there problems so entrenched at the top that all of the Davita clinics are a place to avoid? It's not a theoretical question because the closest clinic that my son can access and keep his relatively excellent new doctors is a d----d Davita!!

The concern for someone you love and the quality of care they will receive at a clinic or hospital is very real. (And I can just imagine the sense of responsibility if you were urging them to move from one country to another.)

No two people's experience is the same. Going back to the pregnancy analogy, I had three and all three were completely different. My daughter's pregnancies were different from mine.

 Even when people are on dialysis there circumstances aren't exactly the same. Are they old or young? Diabetic or not? Have other diagnoses prior to starting dialysis? Good veins or terrible veins. Candidate for PKD so there is a choice? Good family support or none? Affluent or poor with few options. Educated and able to access resources or unable to even read this web site!! Are they a candidate for a transplant? ad infinitum.

People can care and empathize but no one is ever in another person's skin! Hopefully we can help and support one another anyway!

Mom3

[angieskidney]

So this thread is NOT taken off topic any replies on the topic of what Sandman is talking about post here only! Thank you.

As for the pictures all I can say is WOW! IT reminds me of parties my store has where it is all about patting themselves on the back and that they feel it is their time to RELAX and that is WHY they throw themselves parties like that.

[JerseyGirl]

Those pictures are absolutely ridiculous!  Very silly indeed for a bunch of adults.  When I think of all the revenue spent on a silly party it is a shame...spend the money on patient care items, new TV's, tip-stops, gelfoam, or, how about this - a back up generator!  Shame shame shame!

[angieskidney]

ya a backup generator would be great!!!

[Epoman]

Those pictures are absolutely ridiculous!  Very silly indeed for a bunch of adults.  When I think of all the revenue spent on a silly party it is a shame...spend the money on patient care items, new TV's, tip-stops, gelfoam, or, how about this - a back up generator!  Shame shame shame!

EXACTLY MY POINT, thank you! At the davita I use to go to, the many of the TV's are 20+ years old and the colors are way off. Just one of the many examples I could point out.

[kevno]

Sorry from UK, Do not have such Crap Even so some how I have got on Davita e-mail list, no idea how that happened. Being that I am from the UK No wonder most renal patients who use Davita Units get so pissed off.  It must have cost a million for that big do they had. What I can not understand. Why no Patients It seem as if the patient does not count Just the free riders, the so called top people at Davita

[Epoman]

Attention all members:

"Sandmansa" and I (Epoman) spoke on "Skype" and worked out our differences, I apologized to him and he apologized to me. He is welcomed here as is anybody who is effected by this terrible disease. I ARCHIVED the related thread to this subject which Angie discussed here:

http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=929.msg9745#msg9745

Now, lets get back to the threads original topic, which is tell us your opinion on those Davita screen-caps.

[Oldtech]

This is exactly why I quit working for the centers and decided to take it on my own.  You guys would not believe how many really good independent facilities have been gobbled up by these big companies.  Their only goal in life is to out perform the other dialysis company.  It truly breaks my heart to see those pics.  Look at what Davita is teaching their employees.  IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!!  Oh ya, don't mention what went on at the meeting to the patients.  Just tell them you learned a lot and what a great company we are.

You guys should be MAD AS HELL.  I'm sorry, but that's how I feel.  I'm not about to say all dialysis corporations are like that, but I've been around the block a time or two and I've seen with my own eyes how the corporate dialysis world is.  It wasn't always like that.  I remember a time when the patient was the priority and we didn't know from month to month if we would even get reimbursed, but it didn't change the quality of care we gave.  We all truly believed in what we were doing. 

Dialysis has become BIG BUSINESS because it is one of the few businesses that can produce more income than just about any other medical business.  Nursing homes run a close 2nd.

One point I should make is, I believe in my heart that there are still a lot of care givers that are doing it becuase they feel that the Lord put them there and they still do the best they can day after day.  They still have to tow the policy line if they want to keep their jobs and they do have families to support, but you guys are smart enough to tell the difference. 

When you see that special care giver, let them know that you do appreciate them and understand that they do have to follow specific policies sent down from the BIG HOUSE.  Whether they agree with it or not.

[sandman]

That's pretty stupid that they go around with using the village people as the motto for their care facilities.  Very stupid.  Who are they trying to impress anyway?  Certainly not I.

[hephziba]

I don't think we have Davita in england but I am glad we don't yes that is disgusting.
 
they really were full of themselves when the real hero's are the dialysis patients who fight for life and go through the awfull reality of dialysis on a weekly basis. the tecs are never really heroes as they get paid to plug us in !

OK its fine they want to have a party sure. but that was the heights and depths of tacky.cheap and selfcenteredness( not sure how to spell that)

[Rerun]

So they can have next year's convention....Here is the latest "Bull-Shit" DaVita is publishing to get us to contact our local representative to increase Medicare payments!

http://www.davita.com/articles/dialysis/index.shtml?id=892

I think the "Death Squad" needs to be reestablished.  We cannot keep going like this.  The tax payers are being robbed. The article says in 1962 a person had to come up with $30,000 for dialysis and that would pay for 3 years.  Now it is $40,000 a month.  I don't even think Bill Gates could afford it for too many years! 

I think it is okay to make a profit, but how much is TOO MUCH?  AND when does it become just plain greed!

[Bajanne]

What I don't understand is why dialysis is costing so much in a developed country like the United States.   I even find the dialysis cost here in the BVI excessive - it is $500 per session - $6000 per month.  And we have the same machines as you guys and excellent care.  In my home country, a private clinic costs $300 or $350 per session, and again, the machines are new and the care is good.
I just simply don't understand.

[Mom3]

Rerun, what are you saying when you say the DEATH SQUAD needs to be re-established? Is this some old thread I missed?

I think you'd find the cost differential across the board on all medical care comparisons. Not just dialysis and at places that don't party hearty, like DaVita...!

Mom 3

[Rerun]

Mom 3,  go back up and "click" on the link in my post and read the article.

[angieskidney]

What I don't understand is why dialysis is costing so much in a developed country like the United States.   I even find the dialysis cost here in the BVI excessive - it is $500 per session - $6000 per month.  And we have the same machines as you guys and excellent care.  In my home country, a private clinic costs $300 or $350 per session, and again, the machines are new and the care is good.
I just simply don't understand.

Is that including the medication like Heparin and Epo/Eprex/Arenesp?



Wait a minute? Have we taken this thread off topic again? 

[Bajanne]

What I don't understand is why dialysis is costing so much in a developed country like the United States.   I even find the dialysis cost here in the BVI excessive - it is $500 per session - $6000 per month.  And we have the same machines as you guys and excellent care.  In my home country, a private clinic costs $300 or $350 per session, and again, the machines are new and the care is good.
I just simply don't understand.

Is that including the medication like Heparin and Epo/Eprex/Arenesp?

That includes medication and everything else that you need or use on dialysis.

[Mom3]

I opened the thread, but had no idea when I first read your original post that it referred to those tragic old practices. Considering that Epoman and my son (bone disease)  would probably both be dead under the "death squads"--goes without saying I am very against your idea. I was aware that when dialysis first started it was provided very stingily. Considering what Epoman with his bone disease clearly means to so many people, I am shocked you'd say that. Shocked and saddened!

Are you serious, Rerun? In these times of cutting benefits at the slightest excuse, statements like that could have real world ramifications. Politicians who prefer to give corporate welfare and benefits to the rich are looking for any justification they can find to undercut medical subsidy programs etc. Most ESRD patients want to live and no competent adult is being forced to go to dialysis...

Bringing these exorbitant costs in line, Would certainly be more constructive than killing off the patients.

Mom 3

[Joe Paul]

Sorry, my reply was way off topic, I removed it

[JerseyGirl]

No I think you misunderstand Rerun's post.  We start everyone on dialysis here in the USA.  People with no quality of life, very ill people, elderly, people that will not improve physically or mentally ever.  Physicians need to give the option of not starting dialysis as a way to treat kidney failure as well.  I am not saying we should deny treatment to anyone, but all the facts should be discussed prior to beginning treatment.  Often a patient will be started on dialysis and once you begin it is very difficult to stop.  They are miserable on dialysis, seriously.  Often enough too family members keep these people on treatment for their own selfish reasons - for whatever they may be...I think we should offer it as a treatment to all but realize that maybe it is okay just to let the disease process take its course and let them go.  I know this opens a whole new can of worms for discussion, but nonetheless it should be discussed. It is ok to let someone die.  It is the natural progression of the life process. 

[Bajanne]

Well, in my home country, we have the sad situation that the nephrologists still have the say on who goes on and who doesn't.  My dad had kidney failure at 89.  Don't let us think age now.  Let me explain about my dad.  He was born in 1906.  At the age of 12, he became a pupil teacher.  He then became a full-fledged teacher and in his twenties, the principal of an elementary school.  He took his retirement early (at 60) and went to the seminary for a year and then became an ordained minister in the Moravian church (like Methodist).  He went to the island of Antigua and served for 10 years, then returned to Barbados and served for another 9 years.  He was then 75 years old.   On retirement, he took up livestock farming and had a farm of about 200 pigs.  He still preached from time to time, did his own business in town, walked about the village.  We had to stop him from driving himself. He went through colon cancer at the age of 87 and came through it like a trooper!  At 88 he got a bit slower, and started to admit that he was elderly.  He never thought of himself as an old man before, refusing to join any senior citizen or retired teacher groups!  He was diagnosed with kidney failure, and because of a number (89) the nephrologists refused him dialysis.  We even offered to buy a machine so they could dialyse him.  No deal. Our family physician was even upset.  My father still had so much to say to our nation.  He was such a larger than life person.  The nephrologist did not know him, so he just saw an age.  I wish my country thought as the US does, only not with that cost(!!)
A family friend in Barbados (70s) and one in England (80s), were both taken off dialysis and sent home to die.   That is the work of 'death squads"!
Sorry for this long spiel, but maybe you understand.....