Does taking too much fluid damages the kidney?

[JennyQ]

This is not the kind of question you would find much information on coming from a dialysis behemoth like DaVita.   This happens all the time to my wife.  They suck her dry.  Then she is crying in pain from muscle spasms and they have to rush to put back more fluid.  On these days she comes home exhausted and stays in bed.   Doctors in her country told her that if she continues on dialysis, the dialysis will damage her kidneys.  May have already.

There must me a detailed account of what is actually happening to body or kidney during dialysis.   The pros and cons.

Yes, I know I am posting a lot.   I think this is my last question for now.

[Michael Murphy]

Most people on dialysis loose kidney function.  There have been studies that suggest that dehydration which is a known kidney damager is involved.  However what I read you just posted about your wife I would suspect her dry weight is off.  Usually they pull fluid off of me until my BPdrops then they stop.  That weight becomes my dry weight,  I have learned enough in 5 years to reasonably contro my dry weight.  Many factors effect your weight.  Besides fluids there is also solids.  If the direst I’ve track is stopped the weight gain is not all fluids.  I have been known to lie about my weight if I am constipated. 

[Charlie B53]

I am not a Dr.  But I suspect that the muscle cramps are caused by the large fluid take-offs 'thickening' the blood, causing it to be too thick to circulate well within the muscle tissue.

Picture a kid making mud pies, got a bucket of dirt and starts adding water, stirring it with a stick.  Mud.  Add enough water and it thins out even more until it remains fluid.  The circulating volume of blood within the body can be sort of compared to that mud.  All the fluid keeps the red and white cells floating free.  But remove too much of that watery fluid and the concentration begins to thicken, no longer can it flow as freely as it was.

Fluid control is critical.  Learning the self-control to limit our fluid intake enough that we can limit the amount of fluid that needs to be removed during dialysis can make a huge improvement in how we feel during and after each treatment.

This ain't an easy task.

Keeping a critical eye on the sodium in our diet is a start.  If/When I eat Chinese I'm screwed. So I only treat myself a couple times a year.

I never drink a glass, even a small one, of anything.  I limit myself to one mouthful.  And then only swallow a small part of that at a time, take my time in attempt to quench my thirst with only that one mouthful.

Buttermints, mint lifesavers, candy suckers.  All can help.  These work for me.   Some may have to look for sugar free items.

Hopefully you will learn methods that can be made to work for you.

Take Care,

Charlie B53

[Paul]

I suspect that the muscle cramps are caused by the large fluid take-offs

Yeah, I'd second that. I've got my drinking down to where they tend to take off three to four litres, occasionally less. Less does not cause cramp, three causes mild cramp, four causes bad cramps. I had a couple of weeks where I was well over, due to problems during a couple of dialysis where they could take nothing off. So I was having four off and still leaving me overloaded. Still got cramps from that.

I tend to consider cramp as God's way of telling me: "Drink less Asshole."

[Paul]

Sorry, should point out that the last line of my last post was aimed at me, not at your wife.

Also, as to your original question,: Yes, I think it does. If your kidney is 100% healthy they recommend you drink 2 litres of non alcoholic liquid a day to keep it that way. But only if your kidney is fully working. One day I'll maybe post a frighting story about idiot nurses sticking to half that rule without doing any actual thinking first, and nearly killing me.

Yes, I know I am posting a lot.

And why would that be a problem?

I think this is my last question for now.

Why? Without people posting, boards die! - Plus, without asking questions, how do you find out stuff?

[Charlie B53]

There are articles written about 'Cardiac Stunning', the shock to the heart of large take-offs during Dialysis.

I haven't found it yet, but I doun't doubt similar 'stunning' also occurs to the kidneys, causing the loss of any and eventuall the loss of all residual kidney function.

This is the reason I am keeping so hard on myself with my fluid intake, limiting myself to only that one mouthful of fluids when I absolutely have to.  Most treatment days I am right around only 2 liters, plus or minus a half.  Warm weather I am outside in the yard active and there are a number of times I've come in on a Monday actually UNDER my dry weight.  Gotta be very tough on fluids to manage that!

I've only been on Hemo now for one year.  Doing well, I think. PD 3 1/2 years I was allowed all the fluids I wanted, no limitations.  Huge difference now!

It's a very steep learning curve.   Good Luck!

[kristina]

This is not the kind of question you would find much information on coming from a dialysis behemoth like DaVita.   This happens all the time to my wife.  They suck her dry.  Then she is crying in pain from muscle spasms and they have to rush to put back more fluid.  On these days she comes home exhausted and stays in bed.   Doctors in her country told her that if she continues on dialysis, the dialysis will damage her kidneys.  May have already.

There must me a detailed account of what is actually happening to body or kidney during dialysis.   The pros and cons.

Yes, I know I am posting a lot.   I think this is my last question for now.

Hello JennyQ,
Dialysis becomes necessary when the kidneys become unable to "do the job" sufficiently any longer... and when the necessity of dialysis begins, the kidney function has already become insufficient.
When I started dialysis (roughly three years ago), my kidney function had already deteriorated to 5 - 4 % and with a kidney-friendly-vegetarian-diet and "usual" fluid-restrictions, my "two little fighters" are still doing their job as well as is possible.
Best wishes from Kristina.
I do hope this assists a little and I send you my kind regards from Kristina.

[Michael Murphy]

Cardiac stunning is usually a concern for patients with very damaged hearts,  after my last heart attack my ejection fraction was at 20 percent.  That’s only a few points above dead.  It has been tested at 38 percent and I am due for a new test early next year.  About 6 months ago the nurse practitioner from my nephrologist's office walked in and found a clinic nurse dropping me 2kilos below my dry weight.  She chewed out the clinic nurse in great detail, the only thing I remember is when she stated that a patient with my ejection fraction was susceptible to cardiac stunning.  First time I heard that.  All I know is my dry weight is now a hard floor that is only ever exceeded by a half a kilo.












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