Why Responding to Some Posts is very ...

[talker]

Many posts in this forum reflect such sadness, that responding in any fashion seems fruitless.
What often, can be said, is based on ones own personal experiences and beliefs.
Those personal experiences and belief factors can bias and skew how comments are made in posts.
(From reading of some older posts in this forum, saw some that reflect and hint at what must have been some dandy religious wars, although I've not yet found any such religious wars, postings.)

Actually started to respond to 'Thank you for letting me whine', and had to back off as my words of comfort, took on a spiritual depth that could well offend some.   
   
So I backed off and didn't post.

For many, spirituality can take the form of religious observance, prayer, meditation or a belief in a higher power. For some, it can be found in nature, music, and art. Spirituality amounts to different strokes for different folks. It's not necessarily connected to a specific belief system or even religious worship.

Were, that one could speak from the heart, without causing a disrupting ruckus and endless controversy.   

talker







EDITED:Moved to general discussion due to dialysis topics discussed- kitkatz-Admin

[amanda100wilson]

Well said.

[MooseMom]

It is not always easy to respond to a post from someone who is new on IHD and has shared their fear and/or anger.  But I figure that if they've shown the courage and trust to post, then I can certainly show the same and respond.

I do not believe that anyone posts here to intentionally cause offense.  I might read something that rubs me the wrong way, but I trust that no offense is intended.

Posts that may offend one person may well be just what another needs to hear.

Be brave.  Don't ever ignore anyone in obvious pain.

[talker]

Well said.

Thank you kindly amanda100wilson for the kind words.

Ha, your interesting signature shows:
 'Healthy people may look upon me as weak because of my illness, but my illness has given me strength that they can't begin to imagine'.

Would enjoy (some day) sharing my point of view regards those 'telling' words just above.  Sheesh, yes, I can imagine, and from my perspective 'know' the full beauty within those words. Yup, is a 'talker 'tale waiting for expression.

[talker]

It is not always easy to respond to a post from someone who is new on IHD and has shared their fear and/or anger.  But I figure that if they've shown the courage and trust to post, then I can certainly show the same and respond.

I do not believe that anyone posts here to intentionally cause offense.  I might read something that rubs me the wrong way, but I trust that no offense is intended.

Posts that may offend one person may well be just what another needs to hear.

Be brave.  Don't ever ignore anyone in obvious pain.

Hello MooseMom, points well taken. Thank you.

I have, in the painting of my life's tapestry, literally gone where Angels probably feared to go.
Just using simple terms like : Jesus the Christ, bible, being gay, love. hate, and healing energies can stir some into storms of vituperative raging.
A normal exchange of thoughts in or on any of those concepts or words, I welcome, other wise I just ignore those specific rants.
I silently offer prayers for those in pain, even if I've not done a post.

[MooseMom]

Talker, I understand and respect your concerns. 

I have never seen any vituperative raging on IHD to a simple "I offer prayers to you," or "You are in my prayers."  Someone who posts about their pain will remain unaware of your silent offer of prayers.  This is not a time to remain silent.  You are indeed a "talker", and you have a good command of the English language.  I'm very confident you can find words of comfort that are heartfelt yet inoffensive.  How about, "You are in my thoughts."?

[willowtreewren]

Even though I am an atheist, I am never offended when someone offers prayers for my comfort. To me it is simply their way of telling me they care. 

I agree with Moosemom, offer support and caring. It is our human connections that often soothe our souls when we are hurting.

Aleta

[talker]

Even though I am an atheist, I am never offended when someone offers prayers for my comfort. To me it is simply their way of telling me they care. 

I agree with Moosemom, offer support and caring. It is our human connections that often soothe our souls when we are hurting.

Aleta

Thank you willowtreewren for your thoughts here.

May I inquire here, out of genuine interest, if you as an atheist, would explain how you relate to the soul concept, or was it a figure of speech as used above!
I ask, because on certain TV programs I've listened to, express mention was made, and as an atheist, 'we live and then we die, period'. 
No offense taken if you would rather skip that explain part.

[willowtreewren]

I used the term "soul" figuratively. I might have said, "soothe our emotions" but that lacks alliterative value.

Because I have no afterlife in my world view, I believe very strongly in THIS life and work hard at enriching the world for the living. I do this out of a strong sense of ethics and not for any "reward." other than the self-satisfaction it gives me to do so. You will find throughout the atheist community a strong humanitarian ethic. It is a human value that springs from our human qualities. Many religions have maintained that normal human qualities come from religious doctrine and humans have to be taught to behave thusly for fear of punishment (or to gain the reward of eternal life).

While I don't fear death (and interestingly I have not encountered a single atheist who does), I in no way want to hasten it. On the other hand, if I should become a permanent burden on my family or community, I might choose death instead of the alternative. Support of euthanasia runs substantially higher among the non-religious since it carries no stigma and has no sin associated with it.

Many among the religious think that atheists must be miserable, unhappy people. Nothing could be further from the truth. We live life fully, knowing that this one precious life we have is not a dress rehearsal for something later. We love deeply (divorce among atheists is far less common that among Christians), thrill to the beauties of the universe, and contribute to our communities. If there is one area of life that might add to sadness it might be that many of us cannot be open about our atheism, since there is so much prejudice against atheists. Fortunately, even that is beginning to change.

Atheists are some of the nicest people you don't realize you know.

Aleta

[cassandra]

Lovely spoken Wiilwtreewren. I used to ask my dad to pray for people on the site who asked for them. He used to appreciate me asking, but never understood why I wouldn't do so myself.

Love, Cas

[Charlie B53]

Interesting points of view from all.

I haven't seen any negative comments in any of the threads I've read, so far.

But I have noticed one member has been so upset that he edited and removed EVERY posting he has ever made.  I was so concerned as this behavior is quite distressing.  I  contacted a Moderator and learned that there has been a history of this person and another having quite the disagreement.  That it came to the post the one member literally withdrew ever one of his posting and has not been heard of since.

A terrible loss, for him, and for the group.

Every voice needs to be heard.

But if you cannot to politely agree to disagree, and instead flame another member, I would have to agree with Moderator that the offending statements, or the offending poster, should be sanctioned.  Either require the offenders posts to be approved before  posting or an outright ban.  I would hate to ban anyone, but sometimes people just can't, or won't, play nice and  continue to respect another persons right to hold a differing opinion of one's own.

Pretty much my same attitude towards religion.  I would like to think that I have beliefs.  But I can't claim any denomination, or identify with any named church or religion.

But I respect others rights to believe, or not believe, in whatever manner they wish.  Until they infringe on the well-being of anyone else they should be free to does as they please.  Once anyone does infringe upon anyone else then the offending person or persons should be sanctioned however necessary to ensure the safety and freedom of all others.

Now I have to edit this, my right ring finger has a terrible habit of getting too heavy as well as striking the wrong key far too many times.

[willowtreewren]

Cas and Charlie! 

[talker]

I used the term "soul" figuratively. I might have said, "soothe our emotions" but that lacks alliterative value.

Because I have no afterlife in my world view, I believe very strongly in THIS life and work hard at enriching the world for the living. I do this out of a strong sense of ethics and not for any "reward." other than the self-satisfaction it gives me to do so. You will find throughout the atheist community a strong humanitarian ethic. It is a human value that springs from our human qualities. Many religions have maintained that normal human qualities come from religious doctrine and humans have to be taught to behave thusly for fear of punishment (or to gain the reward of eternal life).

While I don't fear death (and interestingly I have not encountered a single atheist who does), I in no way want to hasten it. On the other hand, if I should become a permanent burden on my family or community, I might choose death instead of the alternative. Support of euthanasia runs substantially higher among the non-religious since it carries no stigma and has no sin associated with it.

Many among the religious think that atheists must be miserable, unhappy people. Nothing could be further from the truth. We live life fully, knowing that this one precious life we have is not a dress rehearsal for something later. We love deeply (divorce among atheists is far less common that among Christians), thrill to the beauties of the universe, and contribute to our communities. If there is one area of life that might add to sadness it might be that many of us cannot be open about our atheism, since there is so much prejudice against atheists. Fortunately, even that is beginning to change.

Atheists are some of the nicest people you don't realize you know.

Aleta

---------------------------
Namaste willowtreewren,

Your reply, is to me, a poetry in motion explanation.

I share and believe as you have expressed, with one major difference, my point of view includes 'with' an afterlife.
No longer the beliefs, though, as taught to me as a child so many decades ago.
Deep were the shake. rattle and 'oh no's' schism, that tore deeply into my fabric of beliefs.
Did express, and use, parts of my blog as a sounding board.
There I endeavored to put into words, some of my gestating and maturing beliefs.
Difficult as it is, actually expressing beliefs in written words, and then reading those same words are and can be quite revealing to one.
                                                                                           

talker

[iketchum]

I am afraid I am not politically correct when I have something to say. I will respond with what my own experience has taught me. That is why the joke about me is 'I have nothing to say'.

[willowtreewren]

I am afraid I am not politically correct when I have something to say. I will respond with what my own experience has taught me. That is why the joke about me is 'I have nothing to say'.

Love you, Iketchum. 

Sporting a brand, spanking new kidney, no less!

 

Aleta

[willowtreewren]

Talker, you and Iketchum make for a perfect match! 

[cariad]

I used the term "soul" figuratively. I might have said, "soothe our emotions" but that lacks alliterative value.

Because I have no afterlife in my world view, I believe very strongly in THIS life and work hard at enriching the world for the living. I do this out of a strong sense of ethics and not for any "reward." other than the self-satisfaction it gives me to do so. You will find throughout the atheist community a strong humanitarian ethic. It is a human value that springs from our human qualities. Many religions have maintained that normal human qualities come from religious doctrine and humans have to be taught to behave thusly for fear of punishment (or to gain the reward of eternal life).

While I don't fear death (and interestingly I have not encountered a single atheist who does), I in no way want to hasten it. On the other hand, if I should become a permanent burden on my family or community, I might choose death instead of the alternative. Support of euthanasia runs substantially higher among the non-religious since it carries no stigma and has no sin associated with it.

Many among the religious think that atheists must be miserable, unhappy people. Nothing could be further from the truth. We live life fully, knowing that this one precious life we have is not a dress rehearsal for something later. We love deeply (divorce among atheists is far less common that among Christians), thrill to the beauties of the universe, and contribute to our communities. If there is one area of life that might add to sadness it might be that many of us cannot be open about our atheism, since there is so much prejudice against atheists. Fortunately, even that is beginning to change.

Atheists are some of the nicest people you don't realize you know.

Aleta

So well-said, Aleta! I learned from this, having never seen the stats for divorce among atheists.

Here in England (the part where I reside, anyhow) there is no separation of church and state and very little attempt to be inclusive of all religions and atheism within schools. However, I feel comfortable telling people that I'm an atheist here, if the subject comes up, which it rarely does. To me, it's a strange mix of assuming everyone is Christian while not really caring if they learn that that isn't true. Hard to describe, although I think the social scientists call it 'secular Christianity'. In a very British way, most of them seem to just go through the motions of attending church and inviting the vicar to schools because that's what you do, and it keeps you in social contact with the people around you.

Thanks for speaking so eloquently on behalf of all of us across the globe! 

[Hemodoc]

I used the term "soul" figuratively. I might have said, "soothe our emotions" but that lacks alliterative value.

Because I have no afterlife in my world view, I believe very strongly in THIS life and work hard at enriching the world for the living. I do this out of a strong sense of ethics and not for any "reward." other than the self-satisfaction it gives me to do so. You will find throughout the atheist community a strong humanitarian ethic. It is a human value that springs from our human qualities. Many religions have maintained that normal human qualities come from religious doctrine and humans have to be taught to behave thusly for fear of punishment (or to gain the reward of eternal life).

While I don't fear death (and interestingly I have not encountered a single atheist who does), I in no way want to hasten it. On the other hand, if I should become a permanent burden on my family or community, I might choose death instead of the alternative. Support of euthanasia runs substantially higher among the non-religious since it carries no stigma and has no sin associated with it.

Many among the religious think that atheists must be miserable, unhappy people. Nothing could be further from the truth. We live life fully, knowing that this one precious life we have is not a dress rehearsal for something later. We love deeply (divorce among atheists is far less common that among Christians), thrill to the beauties of the universe, and contribute to our communities. If there is one area of life that might add to sadness it might be that many of us cannot be open about our atheism, since there is so much prejudice against atheists. Fortunately, even that is beginning to change.

Atheists are some of the nicest people you don't realize you know.

Aleta

So well-said, Aleta! I learned from this, having never seen the stats for divorce among atheists.

Here in England (the part where I reside, anyhow) there is no separation of church and state and very little attempt to be inclusive of all religions and atheism within schools. However, I feel comfortable telling people that I'm an atheist here, if the subject comes up, which it rarely does. To me, it's a strange mix of assuming everyone is Christian while not really caring if they learn that that isn't true. Hard to describe, although I think the social scientists call it 'secular Christianity'. In a very British way, most of them seem to just go through the motions of attending church and inviting the vicar to schools because that's what you do, and it keeps you in social contact with the people around you.

Thanks for speaking so eloquently on behalf of all of us across the globe! 

Well shucks, are atheists better people then, is that the conclusion? Not sure what message is spread with that statistic.

However, I will take issue with the conclusion that the research themselves did not draw despite the widespread media coverage of their findings.  Here is what they stated:

Thirty percent of atheists and agnostics had been married and subsequently divorced. However, the three-point difference from the national average was within the range of sampling error, suggesting that their likelihood of experiencing a dissolved marriage is the same as that of the population at-large. A representative from Barna also pointed out the atheists and agnostics have lower rates of marriage and a higher likelihood of cohabitation, a combination of behaviors that distort comparisons with other segments.

They state that you cannot directly compare married Christian couples with married atheist couples because so few who are atheist marry in the first place choosing to cohabitate instead.

The fact that about 1/3 of all categories surveyed end have at least one divorce speaks not of who is better but instead that we all fall short in the eyes of God.

I was divorced from my first wife before I was saved in 1994. My ex-wife came from a very dysfunctional family and I was naive enough to believe I could help her to blossom once she got away from their abusive relationship. Well, two years later, I came to realize I had forgotten about the phone and secondly that you can't overcome the type of abuse she had suffered for 24 years before we were married.

Her mother finally offered her acceptance if she left me. It was a lie of course and the abuse worsened when she returned but this time with my son in tow.

Many people divorce and that has been part of our fallen nature for quite some time but it is not what God intended.

The survey itself does not draw the conclusions that you draw above nor that is drawn in the popular press. No wonder there is a lower divorce rate among atheists. They don't marry as often as Christian couples. What conclusions can you draw from that inference? Certainly not the ones you are trying to imply.

Just my own two cents worth.

Moosemom, get the popcorn.   

[Hemodoc]

Interesting points of view from all.

I haven't seen any negative comments in any of the threads I've read, so far.

But I have noticed one member has been so upset that he edited and removed EVERY posting he has ever made.  I was so concerned as this behavior is quite distressing.  I  contacted a Moderator and learned that there has been a history of this person and another having quite the disagreement.  That it came to the post the one member literally withdrew ever one of his posting and has not been heard of since.

A terrible loss, for him, and for the group.

Every voice needs to be heard.

But if you cannot to politely agree to disagree, and instead flame another member, I would have to agree with Moderator that the offending statements, or the offending poster, should be sanctioned.  Either require the offenders posts to be approved before  posting or an outright ban.  I would hate to ban anyone, but sometimes people just can't, or won't, play nice and  continue to respect another persons right to hold a differing opinion of one's own.

Pretty much my same attitude towards religion.  I would like to think that I have beliefs.  But I can't claim any denomination, or identify with any named church or religion.

But I respect others rights to believe, or not believe, in whatever manner they wish.  Until they infringe on the well-being of anyone else they should be free to does as they please.  Once anyone does infringe upon anyone else then the offending person or persons should be sanctioned however necessary to ensure the safety and freedom of all others.

Now I have to edit this, my right ring finger has a terrible habit of getting too heavy as well as striking the wrong key far too many times.

Dear Charlie, the IHD moderators don't get readily involved in the political or religious discussions on IHD any longer.  Getting banned from IHD is a rare event unless you are a spammer. Have I wanted intervention by the moderators in the past? Yes, but they choose to not babysit the political and religious discussions.  It is wide open and essentially unmoderated. That makes it interesting and aggravating at times when people choose instead to voice personal attacks, but that is IHD.  On the other hand it is also one of the few places where you can say just about anything you want without sanctions. That makes it special in a different sort of way, but not easy to participate for sure. Thick skin and sense of humor and not taking things too seriously is required. That is IHD.

[MooseMom]

But I have noticed one member has been so upset that he edited and removed EVERY posting he has ever made.

Oh gosh, I missed this!  I want to ask who removed all of his posts, but I don't want to stir up anything.  I'm sorry to hear this.  That's too bad.

[MaryJoe]

MooseMom, I was thinking the same thing - actually, I was thinking "What? Who? When?"      If you figure it out PM me, I"m not as brave as you are, and I certainly don't want to stir anything up either!

I will share your popcorn, though!   

[willowtreewren]

The survey itself does not draw the conclusions that you draw above nor that is drawn in the popular press. No wonder there is a lower divorce rate among atheists. They don't marry as often as Christian couples. What conclusions can you draw from that inference? Certainly not the ones you are trying to imply.

Just my own two cents worth.

Moosemom, get the popcorn.   

Hemodoc, the ONLY reason I even brought up the divorce rate is because quite often atheists are painted as miserable, unloving and unloved people, not as you imply to prove that atheists are "better" people. You are the one who tried to make it seem that way. Then you brought up your own unfortunate choice in marriage. I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean.

Of everything I had to say about being an atheist and my policy of tolerance, it appears you are trying to make it seem like I am focusing on divorce. I wasn't, but it seems you are.

[Zach]

Oh gosh, I missed this!  I want to ask who removed all of his posts, but I don't want to stir up anything.  I'm sorry to hear this.  That's too bad.

I believe that is one of our teenage members and he removed all of his posts himself.

 

[gothiclovemonkey]

Even though I am an atheist, I am never offended when someone offers prayers for my comfort. To me it is simply their way of telling me they care. 

I agree with Moosemom, offer support and caring. It is our human connections that often soothe our souls when we are hurting.

Aleta

i couldnt begin to say what religion i am lol im my own concoction... but i personally feel pretty loved when someone says they will pray for me, while i personally dont believe in praying, i give my love and thoughts to those who need it, (my own version of praying i suppose?) its nice that they would care enough to spend that time thinking of me.

[MooseMom]

Oh gosh, I missed this!  I want to ask who removed all of his posts, but I don't want to stir up anything.  I'm sorry to hear this.  That's too bad.

I believe that is one of our teenage members and he removed all of his posts himself.

 

I worded my post very poorly.  I didn't mean to imply that someone else removed his posts.  I should have said "I want to ask who removed all of his OWN posts..." 

I still have no idea who this member is.  When did this happen?