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Author Topic: muscle wasting......  (Read 2382 times)
tyefly
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This will be me...... Next spring.... I earned it.
« on: March 24, 2011, 01:36:28 PM »
Well I have been on dialysis for over a year now...... My albumin has always been good until last month.... I have noticed that I have lost weight and I am losing weight every time I weigh before a session.... I am usually a half a kilo lower than what I was.... every day....  or so.... I have lost 12 pounds in the last month...and I am not trying to loose weight per sa....  I believe I am loosing muscle and others in my family have noticed....  I am concerned about loosing too much muscle... there are many studies on Muscle wasting with CKD and I guess it happens to everyone....  I need to eat more protein..... I know that protein is filtered out while your on dialysis...so I am trying to increase it when I not on the machine....

I have started drinking a protein drink  which states it has 52 g of protein per serving.....   I need to eat more protein as well....  I am not sure how much ..... any of you out there have ideas on what to do .... I am walking about 1 to 2 miles a day with the huskies..... I think I need to lift weights.....  I am not a jogger.....  I am concern about the weight lost .... ( any other time I would of loved to loose the weight..... LOL ) 

This disease is sure hard to balance..... 
 
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IgA Nephropathy   April 2009
CKD    May 2009
AV Fistula  June 2009
In-Center Dialysis   Sept 2009
Nxstage    Feb 2010
Extended Nxstage March 2011

Transplant Sept 2, 2011

  Hello from the Oregon Coast.....

I am learning to live close to the lives of my friends without ever seeing them. No miles of any measurement can separate your soul from mine.
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MooseMom
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« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2011, 01:40:49 PM »
I've also heard about muscle wastage in renal patients.  Are you familiar with Dr. Agar and his participation on Home Dialysis Central?  If not, here is the link to a discussion about this very topic.

http://forums.homedialysis.org/showthread.php/2790-Muscle-wastage
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"Eggs are so inadequate, don't you think?  I mean, they ought to be able to become anything, but instead you always get a chicken.  Or a duck.  Or whatever they're programmed to be.  You never get anything interesting, like regret, or the middle of last week."
tyefly
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This will be me...... Next spring.... I earned it.
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2011, 02:09:23 PM »
  Yes  I know that you brought this point up there and  I did read Dr. Agar rely.... what a guy....  I wealth of knowledge.... 

There seems like alot of information online about this topic...  its serious and it seems to have long terms effects...   I was introduced to this topic when I first started dialysis but since I didnt have any problems with my labs untill last month  I figured that this wouldnt concern me untill now.... its like the longer we are on dialysis the more complications we may have... and then you look at other who have been on for years and they are doing something that is right  or   they are just the lucky ones to have lived all this time..... 

I am usually not so lucky...... at anything.... just a normal run of the mill person .....
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IgA Nephropathy   April 2009
CKD    May 2009
AV Fistula  June 2009
In-Center Dialysis   Sept 2009
Nxstage    Feb 2010
Extended Nxstage March 2011

Transplant Sept 2, 2011

  Hello from the Oregon Coast.....

I am learning to live close to the lives of my friends without ever seeing them. No miles of any measurement can separate your soul from mine.
- John Muir

The clearest way into the Universe is through a forest wilderness.
- John Muir
MooseMom
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« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2011, 03:17:28 PM »
I really don't know the answer to that.  CKD seems to affect each of us so differently.  We read all this stuff online only to eventually figure out that a small proportion of the information is relevent to our particular case.  Have you asked your nephrologist?  It just seems odd that you have this problem all of a sudden.
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"Eggs are so inadequate, don't you think?  I mean, they ought to be able to become anything, but instead you always get a chicken.  Or a duck.  Or whatever they're programmed to be.  You never get anything interesting, like regret, or the middle of last week."
tyefly
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This will be me...... Next spring.... I earned it.
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2011, 06:10:32 PM »
  I am going to email my doctor and talk to him about this.... I am sure I need to watch my labs and see a trend before we reach conclusions....   I dont think its a big problem ....   but I am loosing weight..... 

Could be a good thing..... 
Logged
IgA Nephropathy   April 2009
CKD    May 2009
AV Fistula  June 2009
In-Center Dialysis   Sept 2009
Nxstage    Feb 2010
Extended Nxstage March 2011

Transplant Sept 2, 2011

  Hello from the Oregon Coast.....

I am learning to live close to the lives of my friends without ever seeing them. No miles of any measurement can separate your soul from mine.
- John Muir

The clearest way into the Universe is through a forest wilderness.
- John Muir
MooseMom
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« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2011, 06:17:33 PM »
Quote from: tyefly on March 24, 2011, 06:10:32 PM
  I am going to email my doctor and talk to him about this.... I am sure I need to watch my labs and see a trend before we reach conclusions....   I dont think its a big problem ....   but I am loosing weight..... 

Could be a good thing.....

I'm really curious to hear his solution.  Be sure to let us know!
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"Eggs are so inadequate, don't you think?  I mean, they ought to be able to become anything, but instead you always get a chicken.  Or a duck.  Or whatever they're programmed to be.  You never get anything interesting, like regret, or the middle of last week."
carson
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« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2011, 11:13:56 AM »
Right now, I'm dialysing 7 nights/week at home. I have been asked to cut it back to 6 days b/c I'm becoming slightly malnourished. I eat a very good diet but not enough protein. My hair has been falling out, my skin is aging, my bones ache, my nails are snapping off. I'm worried about my teeth too, but so far so good.
I have started increasing the protein in my diet and also have been drinking protein drinks with approx. 50 g. I don't have to worry about my labs too much. My phosphorous is too low no matter how much high phosphorous foods I eat. I add phospate to my dialysate too. I have been working out since before I was on dialysis. Why stop now? My body needs it more than ever! My muscles are GREAT b/c of all the weights. I highly recommend it. And cardio to keep your heart (muscle) in shape too!!! 
It is a difficult balance but one I'm sure you can manage with a little trial and error.
Good luck with it!
Lisa
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2009 infection treated with Vancomycin and had permacath replaced
2009 septic infection that wouldn't go away
2007 began Nocturnal Home Hemo with Permacath
1997 began Peritoneal Dialysis
1982 had cadaver transplant
1981 diagnosed with GN2 and began Peritoneal Dialysis
texasstyle
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« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2011, 12:54:31 PM »
I believe, but not positive that condition is called "Sarcopenia". You might find it helpful to research that and see if anything can be a benefit or help answer your questions.
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caregiver to husband using in-center dialysis 4 years
Zach
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« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2011, 01:11:37 PM »
Quote from: tyefly on March 24, 2011, 01:36:28 PM
Well I have been on dialysis for over a year now...... My albumin has always been good until last month.... I have noticed that I have lost weight and I am losing weight every time I weigh before a session.... I am usually a half a kilo lower than what I was.... every day....  or so.... I have lost 12 pounds in the last month...and I am not trying to loose weight per sa....  I believe I am loosing muscle and others in my family have noticed....  I am concerned about loosing too much muscle... there are many studies on Muscle wasting with CKD and I guess it happens to everyone....  I need to eat more protein..... I know that protein is filtered out while your on dialysis...so I am trying to increase it when I not on the machine....

I have started drinking a protein drink  which states it has 52 g of protein per serving.....   I need to eat more protein as well....  I am not sure how much ..... any of you out there have ideas on what to do .... I am walking about 1 to 2 miles a day with the huskies..... I think I need to lift weights.....  I am not a jogger.....  I am concern about the weight lost .... ( any other time I would of loved to loose the weight..... LOL ) 

This disease is sure hard to balance..... 
 

Yes, the balance with our nutritional needs is quite difficult.

You need not only sufficient protein intake, but caloric intake as well.

Acidosis is another reason for muscle wasting.  How is your serum Bicarbonate level?
Bicarbonate helps lower acidity in your bloodstream.
http://ndt.oxfordjournals.org/content/12/12/2633.short
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16931215

NxStage dialysate uses Lactate instead of Bicarbonate.
I don't know if that makes a difference or not.

Also, a low phosphorus level can lead to muscle weakness.
http://renalfellow.blogspot.com/2010/10/mild-hypophosphatemia-does-it-really.html

8)
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 01:25:59 PM by Zach » Logged
Uninterrupted in-center (self-care) hemodialysis since 1982 -- 34 YEARS on March 3, 2016 !!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No transplant.  Not yet, anyway.  Only decided to be listed on 11/9/06. Inactive at the moment.  ;)
I make films.

Just the facts: 70.0 kgs. (about 154 lbs.)
Treatment: Tue-Thur-Sat   5.5 hours, 2x/wk, 6 hours, 1x/wk
Dialysate flow (Qd)=600;  Blood pump speed(Qb)=315
Fresenius Optiflux-180 filter--without reuse
Fresenius 2008T dialysis machine
My KDOQI Nutrition (+/ -):  2,450 Calories, 84 grams Protein/day.

"Living a life, not an apology."
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