Eating In Dialysis

[meadowlandsnj]

This probably has been covered before in this forum..........I got a letter yesterday from my center (Hackensack UMC in NJ) stating that no more eating meals is allowed on dialysis.  Something about the NJ Health Codes or some BS.  I go from 10am to 2pm.  I'm okay with not eating but there are plenty of older people who eat a little sandwich or something.  Most are diabetic so they need that meal especially if they're on the NPH (long acting) insulin.  I sometimes bring a small bag of dry cereal or crackers with me so I don't know if this means snacks also.  I'm going to ask my next dialysis treatments on Tuesday. 
What's the policy at your unit on eating?  I know in Europe they sometimes give you a whole meal on dialysis.  A woman I know on hemo travels extensively and gets a meal during treatment in most countries.     

[susie q]

What a load of bs...  At my unit  most people at least snack..
What are they gonna do if you do eat... take it from you 

[Epoman]

I dialysis at a Davita center and they better not ever pull that on us. But I am sure after Davita read my post I'll get a letter too.

BUT if they do they better stop their food eating too. They are always bringing food in the center through the patient area and eating it in other places than their break room. I bring in food everyday but if they ever "try" to make me stop they are going to have a problem.

[LifeOnHold]

I go to an FMC unit in Massachusetts... so far, we can eat whatever we like while on the machine, but fluids must be added to the goal.  My unit is pretty liberal, but there are other units in the area that don't allow eating-- and it's the same company!  I guess every unit here is allowed to set their own policy about eating during treatment.

[Rerun]

I just switched back to Davita because I thought it was better.  It is like the difference between Auschwitz and Dachau. 

I take a little snack because I feel better with a little something. 

Epoman:  What can we do if they tell us not to eat.  I want to know what I can do about the cold/freezing/AC.  I'm so uncompfortable I go home and shiver for 3 hours.  That should be under the COLD topic.... sorry!

[babi68]

Here in Canberra they come around with the tea trolley and we get our cuppa with biscuits, and you can also have some sandwiches from the hospital. Most don't eat them as they think they are bad, but I don't mind them. Mind you, I eat anything . I usually have a cup of ice, my sandwiches and 4 packets of Jatz biscuits. As long as you don't eat in the last hour the nurses here don't really mind what you eat. Alot of the time people bring in cakes to share as well. I would like to see a nurse take my food away from me if I wasn't allowed Liz

[Bajanne]

It is interesting that this comes up now.  Today, I was very silly and because I was in a rush, had no breakfast.  When I do that, I usually go to the tuckshop at school and have a tuna sandwich and a cranberry juice.  Someone in the English department had brought some tarts and I had a guilty slice.  Then it was a rush to the bank before dialysis.  the bank was opening in its new location and had squares of sponge cake and some juice, which I again took guiltily. 
During dialysis, I WAS SO HUNGRY.  When I told the nurse, she said that they used to have some crackers for those who wanted, but there were no more. 
Then the guy next to me opened a styrofoam container with some delicious-smelling food.  I had to force myself to sleep or I would have torn out my tubes and jumped him!
There are absolutely no restrictions on eating at my centre.  In fact, they suggest that you bring a little snack with you.
What is really interesting is that question - What would they do if you DID bring something to eat?

[LifeOnHold]

Some units are such anal-retentive a-holes that they'll actually make you sign a 'behavioral contract' if you break their no-eating rules:  It means they can transfer you to another unit for 'disruptive behavior' if you continue to eat while on the machine.   (Just look up 'behavioral contract in dialysis' if you want to see what I mean-- hard to belive units can be that mean-spirited!)

You'd think they'd keep up with the research that PROVES that dialysis sucks protein out of you-- and it doesn't stop when you're disconnected from the machine, it continues for up to an hour AFTER your treatment ends!  No wonder dialysis patients are constantly fighting low albumin!  Forbidding patients to eat and then bitching about their low nutrition levels seems incredibly passive-aggressive!

I don't buy that 'infection control issues' bullsh*t either-- why is America the only country in which patients get infections if they eat while dialyzing?  Why do most European countries feed you a meal while you're dialyzing, if that's true?  Are European germs more polite?   

I think the real 'issue' is that American dialysis clinics like to micromanage patients.  Well, obviously it isn't working when we've still got a much higher patient death rate than the countries which allow their patients more choices during dialysis.

[Jamie]

Dear fellow renal readers,

   My unit in the hospital here in Canada you are allowed to eat and drink while getting your treatment. Matter of fact at on time at the old hospital unit the nurse's use to bring a round of cookies to the people on dialysis.
  Also every Friday night on my shift 3:00 to 8:00 p.m. Ian (who's mother is on dailysis) get's three boxxes of dounuts from Tim Horton's for every one on dialysis. Needless to say everyone loves there Friday nights.
  Also the nurse's will get everyone coffee or tea to anyone who wants it...................Jamie-G

[kitkatz]

GRRRRRRRRRR! Try to take my snacks!  I will eat the tech or nurse that tries it.

I saw the dietician take a pack of french fries from a patient and throw them out.  I would have wrung her neck!

GRRRRRRRR
Katherine

[Epoman]

GRRRRRRRRRR! Try to take my snacks!  I will eat the tech or nurse that tries it.

I saw the dietician take a pack of french fries from a patient and throw them out.  I would have rung her neck!

GRRRRRRRR
Katherine

Oh man if they ever tried to take my food like that I would lose control. I would be arrested, they would have to put the Dialysis machine in the squad car.

[Rerun]

I forgot my snacks the other day.  I was STARVING by the time I got home!  I almost asked them if they had "anything".... like crackers or something.   

[susie q]

At my clinic they keep crackers or cookies and apple juice.. mostly for the diabetics.. but if you  were that hungry you could have some..

I get nauseated when I get hungry.. never forget my snack... 

[Sara]

Joe tried to bring in Dunkin' Donuts for the patients one time but the nurses said no and they took them and ate them. 

[Hawkeye]

I go to an FMC unit in Massachusetts... so far, we can eat whatever we like while on the machine, but fluids must be added to the goal.  My unit is pretty liberal, but there are other units in the area that don't allow eating-- and it's the same company!  I guess every unit here is allowed to set their own policy about eating during treatment.

I work for an Fresenius clinic and it is a company policy that you cannot eat on the machines.  Diabetics are an exception for this rule to a degree.  The reason behind this rule are simple, but this is also a very loosely followed rule.  We do allow snacks.  One, you are eating food where there have been lots of patients and possible blood or bodily fluid spills.  If those spills were not cleaned using a bleach water solution or some other comparable solution, anything you touch may have been contaminated.  You are then touching food with contaminated hands and eating it.  Thats one of the best ways to contract something.  Two, you are adding more stuff to your system that may already be overloaded.  It reduces the effectiveness of your treatment.  Third, and last, it posses a serious health risk.  I know you will all know how scary it is to even think about "going out" on a machine, just imagine "going out" on the machine with a big bite of a sandwich or burger in your mouth and choking on it.  I unfortunately have seen it happen, although the patient I saw had a stroke.  I fully understand being hungry on the machines and wanting to eat.  I say that it is not a problem just do it in moderation, and make sure your area has been properly cleaned by your tech.  Don't bring in a full 3 course meal or a super-sized meal from the local burger joint.  Only bring in a snack, something that if you have to eat something it can tied you over until you can get that big meal without potentially endangering yourself.  Cross-contamination and choking are both serious hazards

[kevno]

I know is some patients eating can cause their blood pressure to drop. You are allowed to eat on our unit, they come around at about 9am with the breakfast trolley, cereal's, toast and a cup of tea. At 12noon lunch trolley you can have a sandwich, biscuits and a cup of tea. Plus we also bring in our own drinks and snacks.

I do know how much fluid I can stand to remove, all what you drink on the machine as to be added to the total removed. So say I am 1.5kg over, added to that 0.3 for wash back, plus 0.3 for drinks. So that 2.1kg to be removed. More often that not. I always come off the machine spot on my target weight. Unless I miss one of the drinks.

The only patients who are not allowed a lot to drink on the machine are those who are overloaded with fluid. Which I agree with anyway.

Cross-contamination can happen any time, I am one of the few who uses my own tape. The nurses just use any old tape that they find to tape the needles down. Did not like that. Right down to the to the strap for your arm I have my own. The nurse uses the same one for each patient. Did not like that.


Kevno

[susie q]

Good points Hawkeye..  I never thought of the possibility of crashing with food in your mouth.. not good..     I usually just have a small snack,  and I use sanitizing gel on my hands.. 

[Rerun]

Thanks, now I have 2 more things to worry about.

My area not being clean and where the TAPE has been!   

[Hawkeye]

Thanks, now I have 2 more things to worry about.

My area not being clean and where the TAPE has been!   

Sorry to make you worry more, but it's all things you need to think about to stay healthy.  Since I have a friend on dialysis and he talks to me about these things I understand as best I can the frustration you all feel about the clinics and their rules about things.  That's why I joined this group to help explain those rules and point out the things you may not realize our think about.

[Epoman]

Thanks, now I have 2 more things to worry about.

My area not being clean and where the TAPE has been!   

Don't forget the blood pressure cuff. they NEVER clean those things.

- Epoman

[Hawkeye]

Don't forget the blood pressure cuff. they NEVER clean those things.

- Epoman

This is true they are supposed to clean the blood pressure cuffs after every treatment, along with the machine, treatment chair (pillows, armrests, seat, back, side tables), treatment sheet clipboards, and TV's or remotes (which ever applies).  Basically anything that has come in contact with the machine, chair, or patient.

[ginger cookie]

I had a pt suck a hard candy in the windpipe once while passing out on HD, but it popped right out with the heimlich.]
Folks that are diabetics have it rough eating on hemo, their BP drops dramatically after a big meal.
In my purely anecdotal /non scientific observations I think pts feel better with a salty snack at mid point in treatment. Dill pickles, crackers,etc..
When we have pts stuck in the hospital for weeks (kind of like being in prison I think) on saturdays my coworkers and (being the bad nephro nurses that we are) give them a treat-chinese food, pizza, BK, whatever.The docs are aware of this and are ok with it, they know that we don't overdo. Every new years eve we have a champagne toast. If I bake cookies and the teenage garbage disposal living in my house hasn't inhaled them all my pts get a little cookie nosh with their coffee. I believe in quantity of life but with a big eye on quality.

[Panda_9]

I think that nothing to eat or drink whatsoever while on the machine is a big load of BS!
At our centre we are given morning tea consisting of a cuppa and some bickies, and a light lunch of sandwiches, fruit etc. If I don't eat whilst I'm on the machine I get soooo hungry I end up overeating when I get home, then regret it because I feel sick afterwards. I don't see a problem with having a light meal, and being educated on the signs of "going out" or "going flat". The first time I ever went flat, I didn't know what was happening, so of course, I nearly passed out. I only did it once didn't I! I then learnt to be aware of the signs, and keep an eye on my BP throughout the treatment. If I saw my BO going down, I stopped eating, laid back, and if needed, paused the UF for 5 or so minutes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely you don't go flat instantly if you recognise the signs beforehand so you have time to spit your food out lol
I think it is ridiculous to say no food. Is it just because the staff are lazy and don't want to have to intervene if you go flat?

[Bear]

 I guess we can only speak for our unit, eh Amber? But our Seppo friends on here seem to suffer a lot more
 probs than us with their clinics, particularly in the b.s. dept.. I feel sorry for them, I must say.
 Don't you miss that sanger & cuppas brought to you, Amber?? ON daytime home haemo, I always had a flask
 of hot water, tea bags, milk in a jug, a couple of sangers or rolls made, in cling film & a biscuit tin with digestives
 & shortbread. Every so often, I would forget to take the flask, or the milk in with me.
 Bummer. Either give up (which I did if I'd had cannulation probs., or lots of pressure alarms) or disconnect
 after an hour or 2 and go get what I'd forgotten. I still take the flask etc., and keep the bikky tin in there.
 Always have a cuppa once I'm on & can relax 

[Panda_9]

Bear, I think we have it very lucky at home training!! The staff are all lovely, and they really care about giving you the best treatment they can. I wont plug it too much though, coz Rodney said they don't need anymore patients just yet LOL 
I do miss the cuppas, and SOME of the sandwhiches lol I used to take in a sandwhich ready to toast, and get someone to toast it for me. Gary got me hooked on peanut butter and banana toasted sandwhiches mmm!! When I was on the days at home I usually took a big tuna and cheese salad, bread roll, and a thermos of coffee. I normally like tea, but for some reason after a few hours in the thermos its not the nicest. Now on nocturnal I make a cup of tea just before i set up the dressing pack to have after Ive hooked up. Helps me to relax too. I just make it with boiling water, milk powder, and put foil over the cup. It stays hot until I get on. I have only twice recirculated because one I forgot to lock the front gate, and the other time I think I forgot my lunch. I used to get so starving on the day run.