Muscle Cramps

[Grumpy-1]

Had the same the other day - I agree hurts to take a breath.  Grumpy

[Whamo]

Pickle juice is full of salt, isn't it?  But if it works, do it!  LOL.  I had to take off 4 liters the other day, and I was dreading the cramps.  So I took a couple of TUMS (actually a knock-off clone)  before my treatment.  I usually don't go in that heavy, but drank more fluids than usual because I was doing PD exchanges in training that morning.  Well, the PD exchange got canceled because the toilets over ran with water during the weekend, and it ruined the PD environment. 

[natnnnat]

I woke up with calf cramps two nights in a row last week.  They were terrible.  And I'm not even a renal patient. Gregory helped me out with the rubbing and showed me how to use my hand as a stirrup to pull my toes back and stretch the calf muscle, which worked.  Tears!  How on earth does he put up with cramps so quietly, I nearly fell out of bed with mine!  You dialysis people are TOUGH. 
The funny part was, the cramp was in my calf, and he kept trying to rub my thigh.  Nice try!  No wonder the rubbing didn't help.  Didn't help me, anyway.

[YLGuy]

I cramp as well sometimes.  One time when I first started dialysis I did not know what was happening at first.  By the time the tech came over it seemed like every muscle in my body was cramping.  It took 4 techs to hold me.  My whole body was just shaking.  I could barely walk for days afterwards.  I have had leg cramps so bad that I thought the muscles were going to tear away from the bone.  The ones that kind of scare me are when I get a cramp in my neck and/or tongue. 

I do have some pills that have Quinine in them that dissolve under your tongue and they have helped a little in the past.  I also always keep some tonic water with Quinine in it and that has helped as well.   

[MaryJoe]

   Well nat, as long as the massage helped someone, I guess it wasn't a complete loss!   

[dialysis.sucks]

I still have this problem. They cant pull over 3 liters out of me per treatment. Even 3.2 causes severe cramps in my stomach and knees (you cant really stretch those out). I get them at home in my left hand whenever I try to play the piano or guitar for any period of time. That part is REALLY frustrating as its a stress reliever for me. Ive been given Qualaquin (how my doctor got that prescribed ill never know - didnt help), Soma, Vicodin (that seems to actually cause cramps), and several other things. I find that sipping on Gatorade during dialysis helps cut down on the end cramps (pickle juice, but better tasting), but I often have to be put directly back on a bag of saline. Fun stuff 

[natnnnat]

That's a lot to take off in one treatment, no wonder you cramp.  Can you drink less?  Ice cubes, smaller glasses, suck lollies, check the labels of your food for salt content in order to eat less salt, etc etc?
I hate to hear about the cramps from guitar.  That would suck.

[dialysis.sucks]

That's a lot to take off in one treatment, no wonder you cramp.  Can you drink less?  Ice cubes, smaller glasses, suck lollies, check the labels of your food for salt content in order to eat less salt, etc etc?
I hate to hear about the cramps from guitar.  That would suck.

That's kind of the thing. Recently Ive been limiting myself to 20ou per day. So figure 40ou in between treatments, with no other types of liquid "food" like popsicles, etc.. But thats making me cramp more at home. Presumably because the human body uses up more than that in simply running (respiration, etc...) I'm sure I'm getting slightly more than that with all food having a moisture content, but honestly Ive been losing weight going into dialysis like that. But every Oct - Nov I usually end up in the hospital with about 14 kilos sitting on me. Its kind of odd, my nephro cant figure it out, because they have a hard time taking it off in the hospital even with major fluid restriction. The dietician thought it might be everything from low potassium (which Ive only had maybe twice) or low calcium, which isn't really that low. Though 3 is a lot to take off? They have some there getting 5, though they go slightly longer than I do.

[natnnnat]

No you're right, its not so bad.  I've looked around at other people's amounts, and there's other people taking off 3 alright. I pull my head in. 

[M3Riddler]

No you're right, its not so bad.  I've looked around at other people's amounts, and there's other people taking off 3 alright. I pull my head in.

3 Liters is a lot to take off. In my opinion too much unless the time is spread out enouph.  The reason cramping occurs is because the bloodstream can only hold .4 liters or 400 cc's ( some people can handle a little more depending on the individual ) of fluid at a given time. When you pull more than off per hour during a treatment, then it will affect the body, one effect is the cramping. Other effects are stress on the veins as well as LVH - Left Ventricular Hypertrophy.  It takes time for the fluid to go from the tissues to the bloodstream and when they pull more than the 400cc' per hour, you are just stressing the body.   To counter this, they give you saline.... thus many people go home weighing more than what they came in at.  Its a never ending circle.
This can be controllled, but due to the restrictions of in center dialysis to meet CMS guidelines, the patients need to speak up for longer, slower dialysis sessions. Or at least provide an additional treatment during the week.

[talker]

        

Enjoyed the reading here in this topic, Especially the Pink reaction. 

In my experiences with pain events like leg cramps, they stem from a shortage of certain minerals. 
Well, dialysis people need to avoid over doing certain minerals.   
I make efforts to maintain a balanced ratio of minerals, such as is found in mineral rich plants. 
Yes, have had a few dandy leg cramps while in the chair, but is rare. I do recover rapidly once I get home and load up on my supplements to replenish the mineral supply. (Barley grass, Alfalfa root, beet root, and spinach)
So overall my dialysis centers monthly report card reflect 'good' numbers. 

talker

[renalwife]

Dear Talker,

          I noticed that you included spinach on your mineral intake.  My dietitian told me never to even think about spinach because of the very high potassium content in it.

Perhaps that is because my K numbers are usually high.   

[AnnieB]

I started having really bad foot cramps the last few weeks - not on D yet. However, I have also been taking statins to control high cholesterol. Unfortunately, one of the possible side effects from statins is cramping, and muscle damage. When I called my doctor, I was told to stop taking the statins and to make an appointment to come in. I gather from this that cramping might not necessarily always be a result of dehydration or side effect from kidney disease - it could actually be a serious side effect from taking statins. If anyone else out there is taking statins and notices muscle pain, cramps and/or muscle weakness, that could be a red flag. You should probably check this out with your doctor, and not assume the cramps are only due to CKD.

[PrimeTimer]

My husband had to stop taking a statin drug due to high CPK level ?? that causes muscle breakdown (sorry, he can't remember which statin it was). He does not recall getting cramps on it tho. What we have both learned (thru his dialysis center) is to drink a little tonic water that has quinine in it for cramping. I do not have kidney disease (husband does) but I do get bad leg cramps (at nite when sleeping) if I haven't kept myself hydrated. I would usually get up and drink a couple of glasses of water but it would always take about 30 minutes to an hour to find relief. Tonic water works super fast tho. I timed it the other nite and in less than 1 minute it took only half a glass of tonic water to relieve a bad cramp in my calf. That's FAST! I swear, I could almost feel the tonic water "rushing down inside my leg", was kind of weird but it sure works fast. Hate the taste but we keep a bottle of it chilled in the fridge and I pour some in a glass and drink it down like I am drinking a Seven-Up or a soda.

[PrimeTimer]

Warning: do not ever try to drink tonic water while reading one of BobN's posts. You could end up with tonic water up your nose.

[AnnieB]

at least you wouldn't have to worry about nostril cramps though