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okarol
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« on: March 05, 2008, 04:26:08 PM »

UNOS Update
January–February 2008

Vulnerability Unmasked

THE RESPONSIBILITIES OF CARING FOR THOSE WHO MUST
PLACE THEIR TRUST IN THE SYSTEM — AND IN US

Editor’s note: Sue V. McDiarmid, M.D., served as president of the
OPTN/UNOS board of directors, 2006 – 2007; the following is the
presidential address she gave to the OPTN/UNOS board on June
26, 2007, before she handed the presidential gavel to Timothy L.
Pruett, M.D.

By Sue V. McDiarmid, M.D.

You know it when you see it, epitomized in a wide-eyed look,
defenseless against daunting adversities — disease, poverty,
age, discrimination, war, disaster, famine. Victims in the making.
If we allow the nobility in our human nature to respond,
our response is visceral — the urge to protect, to roll back
the darkening clouds of threat and danger, to advocate, to
make a change.
Perhaps it is the inherent vulnerability of the very young
that caused me, newly arrived in the United States, unclear in
my path, to choose pediatrics. Since that decision, I have not
paused long enough, until this past year, to consider the
motivation for either that choice or its consequences or to
ponder a broader perspective of vulnerability in a wider world.
That word, “vulnerable,” leapt off the page at me with a
whole new spectrum of meaning when I first set it down,
struggling to express my feelings and to represent yours, in a
letter to The LA Times in October 2006.
We, UNOS and the OPTN, were accused of being asleep
at the switch, charged with the failure to take decisive action
quickly and publicly against errant programs. Just close the
programs down, let their trial be in the press, those clamoring
against us said. Lost in the rhetoric of a good story were the
consequences of closing a program without substantive cause,
disenfranchising candidates who were hoping, trusting, for a
second chance at life.
Pause for a moment, as I did that day, to think of the
96,000* patients on our waiting list. What might 96,000
people in one place look like — they are a heartbreakingly
vulnerable population.
Not merely sick, but haunted by the threat of death,
Damocles’ sword suspended each day over each head.
Vulnerability made worse by disease, weakened physical
strength, dependence on machines, medications, caregivers
and on us, to be as wise as Solomon, all the time knowing
there’s not enough new life to go around.
With this knowledge comes a heavy burden of
responsibility. For me, the depth and meaning of vulnerability
under which our patients suffer — and the protection we must
give them — crystallized as I wrote that letter and gave me a
new vision of the mission ahead.

The vulnerability of children

Let me start with the children, a world I know. This is a
minority population, without an independent voice of their
own, dependent on adults like us to translate accurately their
unique predicament, to be their champions.
In the world of transplantation, children are blessed by
their resilience but cursed by their size. For the little ones,
their rate of death on the waiting list exceeds that of any other
age group. In the past five years, close to 1,500 children have
died on the waiting list. Those children could have had an
average additional 10 years of life with a transplant — 15,000
child-life years lost, their futures denied.
What have we done about this?
The first pediatric summit, held in March 2007 in San
Antonio, Texas, was convened by UNOS, the Health Resources
and Services Administration and the Organ Donation and
Transplantation Alliance. OPOs, pediatric intensivists and
transplant physicians and surgeons joined forces to prevent
children from dying on the pediatric waiting list.
We determined the actions needed to increase the number
of pediatric donors. We conceptualized innovative allocation
systems that will preferentially place small pediatric donors
into the neediest small recipients — without affecting the
access to transplants for adults. We envision the broadest
possible sharing to match donor and recipient size — with
limits to distribution determined by biology, such as cold
ischemia time, rather than by geography.
It is in our hands to make the difference to save these
young lives.

...

The vulnerability of living donors
Both bring unique vulnerability. On one hand, a healthy
person is exposed to risk in order to save the life of another;
on the other hand, a person’s dignity at the end of life must
be protected.
This past year we have begun what can best be described
as “soul searching” as we try to determine
how we should share in the responsibility
of protecting the practice of live
donation and the safety of living donors.
Potential living donors are vulnerable
to their own emotions; I have so often
heard a parent say that she would give
her life for her child. Potential living
donors also are vulnerable to the
emotions of their family and friends,
which can run the risk of making the
living donor’s consent tantamount to
being coerced.
How do we best educate potential
living donors not only to the immediate
risks of the operation itself, to the
potential consequences of lost income,
to the potential difficulty in getting health and life
insurance — as well as to the long-term health risks, as yet not
well defined, but perhaps 20 years or more down the road?
Doesn’t UNOS — in its role of establishing and holding
transplant programs to standards — have a special
responsibility to further delineate the benchmarks for the
safe practice of living donation? And isn’t it also our job to
participate in overseeing donor safety?
As a community, we certainly thought so when many of us
participated in 2005 in the Vancouver Forum on the Care of
the Live Organ Donor. We, UNOS, now mandate reporting
within 72 hours of any living donor death or need for
transplant. Does that mandate go far enough? What data do
we need to be able to answer the question on the short-term
risk to living donors?
And, much more problematic, is the “who and how” of
monitoring a living donor’s health in the long term. The
logistics of 20-plus years of tracking are daunting, as is the
cost. We currently focus on monitoring short-term living
donor safety, but we cannot abdicate our responsibility to
advocate for long-term follow-up, push for the financial
support to make follow-up a reality, and to collaborate and
advise on national efforts shared by the transplant community
and the federal government, including the Department of
Health and Human Services and the National Institutes of
Health to fulfill our responsibility to living donors.

The vulnerability of the poor

Living donation has a darker side, though, beyond our direct
purview. We cannot shield our conscience from the exploita-
tion of those who sell parts of themselves — impelled most
often by poverty — to those with the means to buy their
chance at survival.
Those within the grip of poverty are particularly vulnerable
to any wind that fans the smallest flame of hope, a hope that
somehow life can be better. To take advantage of that
exploitable hope is moral treachery, especially when the
consequences of grasping at that thin straw of hope may bring
disease — and even death.

http://www.unos.org/SharedContentDocuments/Jan_Feb08_First_Person.pdf

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Admin for IHateDialysis 2008 - 2014, retired.
Jenna is our daughter, bad bladder damaged her kidneys.
Was on in-center hemodialysis 2003-2007.
7 yr transplant lost due to rejection.
She did PD Sept. 2013 - July 2017
Found a swap living donor using social media, friends, family.
New kidney in a paired donation swap July 26, 2017.
Her story ---> https://www.facebook.com/WantedKidneyDonor
Please watch her video: http://youtu.be/D9ZuVJ_s80Y
Living Donors Rock! http://www.livingdonorsonline.org -
News video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-7KvgQDWpU
stauffenberg
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« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2008, 07:27:24 PM »

What an utter moron!  Giving such scientifically inaccurate, disproportionately heavy weight to the imaginary risks to the potential living kidney donors against the huge and real risk of dialysis patients not getting a kidney is criminally stupid.  The best research shows that the risk of death in an operation donating a kidney is one in three thousand, which is statistically so small, the donor would stand about as much chance of dying in a car accident driving to the hospital for the surgery!  The health consequences of kidney donation have also been extensively studied, and the interesting result found was that kidney donors live on average LONGER than people who never donate a kidney.
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kidney4traci
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« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2008, 07:50:44 PM »

Quote
The health consequences of kidney donation have also been extensively studied, and the interesting result found was that kidney donors live on average LONGER than people who never donate a kidney.

That's an interesting fact, do you remember where you heard it?  I would like to show it to someone. 


EDITED: Fixed quote tag - okarol/moderator
« Last Edit: March 05, 2008, 08:13:30 PM by okarol » Logged

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xtrememoosetrax
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« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2008, 07:09:56 AM »

Quote
The health consequences of kidney donation have also been extensively studied, and the interesting result found was that kidney donors live on average LONGER than people who never donate a kidney.
That's an interesting fact, do you remember where you heard it?  I would like to show it to someone. 
EDITED: Fixed quote tag - okarol/moderator
Of course this should not be construed as meaning that it's actually "good for you" to donate a kidney.  This finding, while it may be true (it should be noted that there are differences of opinion as to adequacy of the data on donor follow-up), is undoubtedly influenced by selection bias; i.e. those who volunteer for and then are actually tested and accepted as donors are obviously likely to be healthier than the average person. 

Stauffenberg, from a medical ethics standpoint, it is ridiculous to call the doctor who made these remarks a moron.  Patients MUST be informed of the risks of any procedure, no matter how small, and this is a case where the procedure offers NO MEDICAL BENEFIT to the donor, ONLY risk, however small.

As to the "imaginary" risks, here is one story of a kidney donor, and I have heard others like it.  Admittedly, it's a small number compared to the majority of positive outcomes, but what has happened to these people is quite real.

"i donated in 5/2007.  i am/was 48 years old at the time.  i was in pretty good health, although had some lung/bronchial issues that almost delayed the transplant but ironically i was given a clean bill of health within the last week.
 
i am going to be honest here....as i believe that is what this discussion is intended for.
 
i was told 2-3 weeks recovery; pain, but nothing i didn't believe i could overcome.  lap procedure - you'll have two scars.  (i have four)
 
i was in the hospital for 10 days, most of it in intensive care.  post-surgery complications included a collapsed lung, pneumonia and of all things - the flu.  i would say that i was not even at 50% four weeks out of the hospital;  six months later i felt i had reached 80% recovery. 
 
my recipient's insurance did not cover all of my hospital expenses; at some point it was determined that my bronchial issues were a pre-existing condition prior to surgery - funny - why would any one recommend me for surgery if i was not healthy enough to go through the process? 
 
i lost my job right before donation; my employer knew of my intent to donate, and i had asked for time off without pay.  when the request was formalized it was denied.  it took me much longer than expected to get back on my feet and go out and try to find work and when i did, it was not a warm fuzzy i received from potential employers.  it seems my "heroic efforts" were admired, but, administrative types did not think i was such a good risk....i am now working in a position at 1/3 of my former salary and have to take the elevator rather than climb steps.
 
i would do exactly what i did over and over again for my dear friend, who unfortunately passed away in july of 2007.
 
i am only wanting to openly and honestly express the potential side effects and repercussions of this possible donation. 
 
again, i by no means do not completely and whole heartedly endorse and support live organ donation and the incredible impact and far-reaching life saving implications of this effort by any one."


To put it very coldheartedly, the net outcome in this case is one person dead and one person sick.  The donor, formerly reasonably healthy and well employed, is now in less than optimal health with less than optimal employment, faced with the possibility of never being insurable (for either life or health) again, and having suffered financially, all as a result of his "good deed."  Admittedly, these are things that dialysis patients face every day; however, I can't imagine that you would wish them on anyone.  Certainly not a positive outcome in my book.

Again, all I'm wanting to say here is that the risks, while small, are real.  You can read more about this kind of thing at livingdonors.com.  The majority of the stories there are positive ones, but those with bad outcomes are truly disturbing, not least because of the way some of these people have been cast aside by the health care system.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 07:15:53 AM by xtrememoosetrax » Logged

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Zach
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« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2008, 08:22:49 AM »


The health consequences of kidney donation have also been extensively studied, and the interesting result found was that kidney donors live on average LONGER than people who never donate a kidney.


What published, peer-reviewed study was this?
Show us the beef!
 8)
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No transplant.  Not yet, anyway.  Only decided to be listed on 11/9/06. Inactive at the moment.  ;)
I make films.

Just the facts: 70.0 kgs. (about 154 lbs.)
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Dialysate flow (Qd)=600;  Blood pump speed(Qb)=315
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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2008, 08:45:42 AM »

I'd like to go on record here as agreeing with Stauffenberg!

I feel like I have the right to reply to this thread because I was a living donor (July of 2000 to my husband Marvin -- my left kidney, open nephrectomy).

I realized then (just as I do now) that there are risks to any surgical procedure.  And, I'm certainly not minimalizing those risks.  However, in my case, the doctors (and I had to have my own "team" -- none of Marvin's doctors were allowed to evaluate or treat me) assured me that I was extremely healthy (my God! the tests I had to endure -- over a period of about three months -- there was not one inch of my body or my psychological being that was left untouched or unprobed!).  The doctors said I SHOULD NOT (no guarantee, however) have any complications from the live donation.  And, I had NONE -- not one (except the morphine drip for pain made me sick on my stomach -- for which, I was switched to oral pain meds, took them two days, and went to Extra Strength Tylenol for another week).

My incision was made from the middle of my stomach around my side -- about 9 inches total.  (The doctor who perfected the lap kidney removal surgery at Duke was on a fellowship for 6 weeks and out of the country at this time.  When I was "okayed" as Marvin's donor, we had the choice of waiting for him to come back in country or going ahead with the "open" incision.  I chose to go ahead.)  I came home three days after surgery (Marvin came home the next day).  I was moving around (slowly at first) the house immediately.  Within three days, I was cooking supper, washing clothes, picking up around the house (no heavy lifting).  I went back to work in three weeks.  I haven't had a minute's trouble.  If I didn't have the scar (and it has faded greatly), I would never know that I only had one kidney now.

Now, eight years later (and the kidney contracted the same disease that destroyed Marvin's original kidneys; transplanted kidney "died" three years after transplantation), I'm doing things that I never did before.  Each year, I have a thorough exam from my GP, and I ask (and get) a kidney function test, a creatnine test, a blood sugar test (fasting), a cholesterol check, etc., etc., etc.  These are things that were NOT a part of my yearly exams before.  I'm now extremely conscientious of my health and am keeping a close eye on my body (maybe that explains why live donors live longer on average).

The story that was recounted in xtrememoose's post is unfortunate, but it's NOT the norm!  For every one story like that, there are thousands more with good, positive, non-eventful outcomes.  But, it's usually the ones that are negative that get the most attention and publicity; to me, that's a shame.  I wish more people knew that live donation usually (but not always) has as good of an outcome as mine.  I wish more people would consider being a living donor.

I think, just like Stauffenberg, that the doctor in the original post is a moron.  By her words, she has hurt the reputation of living donation.  She has portrayed the living donor as "vulnerable" -- and she certainly wasn't accurate if she was talking about me.  I'm an intelligent, logical woman.  I knew what I was getting in for -- and I also knew what I had a chance of gaining in the operation.  I had a chance to make my Marvin better (even if it only lasted for three years), and that did wonders for my emotional and MY medical well-being (the stress from being a dialysis caregiver is phenomenal and CAN take a huge toll on the healthy body in a situation like ours).

Was I coerced?  Oh, hell, no!  It was a lot easier for me to convince the doctors (because Marvin and I were a very low antigen match) than it was for me to convince Marvin.  He didn't want me to be a living donor  -- not even HIS living donor.

Was I informed of the risks?  I was informed, informed, informed, and then informed some more.  It got to the point when another doctor started explaining the process and the risks to me, I would stop him and quote them for him.

Was it "good" for me to donate?  You are dog-gone skippy it was!  Before the transplant, I thought that Marvin would be the only one to benefit from it.  Afterwards, I realized what it did for me, too.  Being a living donor is an experience that I simply cannot explain.  It did wonders for my soul.  Also, Marvin and I had the first "low antigen match" transplant at his transplant hospital.  When ours "worked," the hospital started accepting more low-match donors; so, we helped pave the way for many others (people we will never know) who came after us.

Would I be a living donor all over again?  Yes!  Tomorrow!  And, if I could talk the doctors into it, I'd give Marvin my remaining kidney and I'd live on dialysis for a while.  (Don't even think that that last statement sounds stupid -- you haven't walked a mile in my shoes!)

If I knew that the transplant would only last three years, would I still do it?  Yes!  It was worth it.  If it had only lasted three weeks, it would have been worth it!  That was three years that Marvin didn't have to endure dialysis --three very, very, very, very, very good years.

Do I think that more people should be living donors?  Yes, I do!

Do I think this doctor hurt the chances of more people being living donors?  Yes, I do!

Do I think that people (and maybe some of you) understand why I was a living donor?  No...and, to me, that's sad.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 08:54:28 AM by petey » Logged
okarol
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« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2008, 09:16:59 AM »

Petey,
Great post. You are an example of someone who had full knowledge, a thorough evaluation and all the things a good transplant hospital provides for living donors.
Surgery is always risky, even elective surgery for a very healthy person. Most of time everything works out fine. Of course there are exceptions. The same would be true if you were having a nose job or liposuction!
I admire you for donating to Marvin. Living donors are remarkable people. Thank you for sharing your story here.
 :clap;
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Admin for IHateDialysis 2008 - 2014, retired.
Jenna is our daughter, bad bladder damaged her kidneys.
Was on in-center hemodialysis 2003-2007.
7 yr transplant lost due to rejection.
She did PD Sept. 2013 - July 2017
Found a swap living donor using social media, friends, family.
New kidney in a paired donation swap July 26, 2017.
Her story ---> https://www.facebook.com/WantedKidneyDonor
Please watch her video: http://youtu.be/D9ZuVJ_s80Y
Living Donors Rock! http://www.livingdonorsonline.org -
News video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-7KvgQDWpU
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2008, 09:23:17 AM »

Just for the record, I am planning to be a living donor to a friend.  I have gone through the donor workup and have done a lot of research and have decided that, for me, the risks are well worth taking.  Sorry if I created the impression that I am opposed to living donation; I am not.
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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2008, 09:24:20 AM »


Surgery is always risky, even elective surgery for a very healthy person. Most of time everything works out fine. Of course there are exceptions. The same would be true if you were having a nose job or liposuction!


Karol, who told you I needed liposuction, too?  Was it Marvin?  He can't keep a secret!  :rofl;
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« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2008, 09:33:01 AM »

Just for the record, I am planning to be a living donor to a friend.  I have gone through the donor workup and have done a lot of research and have decided that, for me, the risks are well worth taking.  Sorry if I created the impression that I am opposed to living donation; I am not.

Oh, no, xtrememoose -- I didn't take it that YOU were opposed to living donation.  No, no, no -- not at all.  Oh, goodness -- let me go back and re-read my post...okay, I see where you're coming from.  I didn't make it clear that I only used your name because you posted and included that story about the not-very-good experience with living donation.  I certainly didn't think that you were saying all living donations were bad or like this one.  Just like with Karol, when she posts something from another place, I don't think that she agrees or supports the other material.  She's just throwing it out there for us to consider.  That's what I thought you were doing (I just didn't make it obvious that I wasn't relating you to that story).  And, hey, I think all sides should be entered in the discussion (even if sometimes I get a little carried away and think my side is the RIGHT side  :rofl;).

xtrememoose -- I think living donation is a wonderful thing, even for the donor.  Let me know if I can help you there.
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« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2008, 09:39:04 AM »

I totally agree with stauffenberg. I wanted to donate to Len and was given a pile of information to read and spoke to all doctors involved, had blood test and discovered that I have diabetics and was denied being a donor. God, knows I would if I could.
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« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2008, 09:40:06 AM »

 I am so in awe of the people who have come forward to be tested for me.  They all act like it is a normal thing to do;no problem!  A lady at church acted as if she was offering to bring me a casserole!  For her, it was just that simple. She had two kidneys and wanted to share!  Wouldn't it be a wonderful world if everyone felt that way?   So, those who donate are always heros to me. :2thumbsup;
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« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2008, 11:48:40 AM »

I did not mean to suggest that potential kidney donors should not be informed of all the risks, small as they are, of kidney donation.  But what I was criticizing was the excessive weight the author gave to those small risks against the enormous benefits of renal transplant.  If you have two people and two kidneys, with two of them in one person and none in the other, then the one and only way to maximize human life, energy, and health is to distribute the two evenly between the people.  Discouraging that redistribution by scientifically irrational, obsessive concerns about protecting the donor, which the UNOS director was guilty of, makes him a moron in my view.

The peer-reviewed research on the longer lifespan of kidney donors can be studied in Ingela Fehrman-Ekholm, et al, "Kidney Donors Live Longer," Transplantation, vol. 64, no. 7 (1997) pp. 976-978.  No doubt the longer than average lifespan of kidney donors is influenced by the fact that only healthy people are picked for donation, while the normal population contains a fair number of sick people.  However, the data clearly show how utterly minimal the negative impact of kidney donation is on health.
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« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2008, 12:38:53 PM »

But, it's usually the ones that are negative that get the most attention and publicity; to me, that's a shame.  
Mild disagreement here.  I love all the positive stories about living donation that I read here (courtesy of Okarol) and elsewhere.  They help keep me inspired and on track in what is proving to be a long trip toward donation.  It's just that sometimes it seems like the ONLY stories I see are about positive outcomes, and they often focus on donors who are a month or two postop -- end of story -- with no information about the long term, complications that may have come up further down the road, etc.   

She certainly wasn't accurate if she was talking about me.  I'm an intelligent, logical woman.  I knew what I was getting in for -- and I also knew what I had a chance of gaining in the operation.   [. . . .]   Was I coerced?  Oh, hell, no!  
Agreed.  Nor have I been. This doesn't mean that it isn't a real and legitimate concern in some cases that medical providers should be aware of.

Was it "good" for me to donate?  You are dog-gone skippy it was!  Before the transplant, I thought that Marvin would be the only one to benefit from it.  Afterwards, I realized what it did for me, too.  Being a living donor is an experience that I simply cannot explain.  It did wonders for my soul.
This is what I have heard, almost universally, from all the living donors I have talked to and read about.  Many, many people talk about the psychic and emotional benefts that they have reaped from being a living donor, even those who have had a less than optimal outcome.  My comment about it not being "good for you" was made in response to Stauffenberg's assertion, which I by no means dispute, that living donors have a longer life span than the average person.  What I was trying to say -- and it is possibly a point too obvious to even bother making -- is that this can't be interpreted as a cause-and-effect relationship; i.e., "donate a kidney and you'll live longer!"

Of course there are exceptions. The same would be true if you were having a nose job or liposuction!
Good point, Okarol.  It can certainly be argued that procedures such as facelift and liposuction in many cases offer no medical benefit, only risk, to those undergoing them.  Personally, I figure that if I'm going to voluntarily go under the knife, I want it to be for something really good!

I did not mean to suggest that potential kidney donors should not be informed of all the risks, small as they are, of kidney donation. But what I was criticizing was the excessive weight the author gave to those small risks against the enormous benefits of renal transplant. If you have two people and two kidneys, with two of them in one person and none in the other, then the one and only way to maximize human life, energy, and health is to distribute the two evenly between the people.
Agreed.

Anyway, sorry Petey, didn't mean to devalue your experience in any way, particularly given the fact that YOU have been through it, and I haven't! 

There has just recently been a rather heated discussion on the living donors site about some of these same issues -- how to balance the risks and benefits.  It's a complicated subject.

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« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2008, 01:17:38 PM »

I agree, xtrememoose, it is a complicated -- and often passionate and even controversial -- subject.

I have heard and read some really good donation stories, but -- to me -- the ones that stick out in my mind and memory are the ones that are negative, pitiful, with sad endings.  I guess I'm too sensitive and let the "good" ones skim past me (maybe I'm thinking, "Oh, yeah, I know all that.  Been there.  Done that.") but the "bad" ones make me irritated (maybe I'm thinking, "That's not the way it was with me!").  Does that make sense?  The "bad" stories get a reaction out of me -- much more so than the "good" ones.

That Karol -- she's too good to us by keeping us all informed, and I love to read the articles that she posts in the "News" section.  I have learned so much from Karol.

I agree with everything else that was just pointed out in the last post.  And, xtrememoose, I certainly didn't think you were devaluing my experience.



I did not mean to suggest that potential kidney donors should not be informed of all the risks, small as they are, of kidney donation. But what I was criticizing was the excessive weight the author gave to those small risks against the enormous benefits of renal transplant. If you have two people and two kidneys, with two of them in one person and none in the other, then the one and only way to maximize human life, energy, and health is to distribute the two evenly between the people. Discouraging that redistribution by scientifically irrational, obsessive concerns about protecting the donor, which the UNOS director was guilty of, makes him a moron in my view.
And, I TOTALLY agree with this!!





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