Is there a GOD? - ding! ding! ding ding geeeeet reaaaaaady toooooo rummmmble!!!!

[skyedogrocks]

So, do you believe that there was an Adam & Eve?

[LightLizard]

the belief in a diety is an ancient and basic level of humanity. in ancient times, there was very little understanding about the nature and origins of life. even today, there is little clarity on the subject. the human mind is not capable of perceiving the vastness and endlessness of the cosmos, let alone it's origins, so naturally, man does what he is capable of doing in the face of these mysteries; he makes up a scenario that allows him to feel secure in his knowledge. even if that knowledge is flawed, it becomes a doctrine, over time, and generations go by, accepting the doctrines as they are delivered by their parents and educators. we have a tendency to put a human face on nature, to deify or demonise that which is beyond our human comprehension. so what we have today is tribes of humans, all believing that their concept of truth is the best one, their perception of reality, their god, is the only one. this is the polarisation that has kept humanity at war since we crawled out of the ooze, and it is the mentality that will send us back to that ooze, if we don't wake up.
there is no 'father' watching over us. the stories of the bible are myths, not history, and should be read as myths, if we want to glean anything useful from them. jesus the christ is the potential we all have within us, to live and be spiritual in this cold, violent world. he did not exist historically, he was a continuation of the egyptian mythologies, adapted and adopted by the christians. since medieval times, religious organisations have warped and twisted the teachings to suit their agenda of control and manipulation of the ignorant masses.

there is a creative principle that controls the universe and everything in it. all life exists because of it. we all come from that source. we are all part of it now, and will return to it in a more fundamental manner, when our time here is done.

if anyone is interested in truth, i suggest they read joseph campbell or tom harpur. these men have brought the mysteries of the ancients into clear focus for modern thinkers, and have given new meaning to the old myths that do not destroy, but uplift the teachings to a higher level than any church ever could.

live in love

~LL~

[Sara]

So, do you believe that there was an Adam & Eve?

Well, there had to be a first human-ish man and woman somewhere, sometime.  Whether it was the ape-human common ancestor or if it really was the storybook version of Adam and Eve and the fig leaves, both are miraculous.  So to answer your question, I don't really know exactly how it happened, and it doesn't bother me.   

[Duane]

It's easy for me to believe in a Creator God today, but there was a time in my life when i doubted and wondered why the pain, etc.. from a loving and according to the bible a carring God, why all the heart ace, etc.

1 day is as a 1,000 yrs and a 1,000 yrs as one day according to the bible. Through my research of many books for 30yrs off and on up to today, now i know for a fact the bible is the truth about God and Creation.

Now when i read the first to verses in the Book of Genesis, here let me post it for reference: Genesis 1

 1.  In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
 2.  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

After all these years of reading this, I now know today that there is no recorded time here according to man's time table. So I understand this to be called eternity.

Now let's read 2 more verses down: Genesis 1
 3.  And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
 4.  And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
 5.  And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
 
For over 20 yrs i've read that and heard many comments about these verses without clearity until now. Take the word (light), if you go into a dark room without light, you see nothing and everyone that comes into the room will stumble around in darkness for there is no light to see, but once light enters now you can see.  Well today i see the mystery of just these first few verses and how deep the message really is.

This is not a recorded mistake this is a metaphysical reality. (beyond the physical).

Most people equate this with the sun, for it gives light as we know it. But as you read on you will find that the sun wasn't created yet, it wasn't until the 4th day.

Genesis 1: 14.  And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
 15.  And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
 16.  And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
 17.  And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
 18.  And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
 19.  And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

So now the question will be: What was that light back there in verse 3,4,5, on the first day? Also pay close attention to verses 1 & 2 which happened before the first day in eternity.

In the New Testament Jesus (God's Son) said: John 8:12  Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I Am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Duane, are you saying that Jesus was back there in the beginning of creation, not time, but creation? Yep. It's another mystery.

John 8:58  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I Am.

Now because he said that, they wanted to stone him (kill him), because he is alooding to being God in the flesh. verse 59.  Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

There is another deep esoteric mystery fact in verse 59. There are a total of 5 biblical historic mysteries in verse 59 alone. 1, wanting to stone him, 2. he hid himself, 3. left the temple, 4. went throught the mist of them without being stopped, 5. passed by on his own without them seeing him do it.

Here's another mystery about Jesus: Luke 24:27  And beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

This is deep and must be read very slowly and read maybe 10 times before getting an understanding of it, the above and below passages. You can not read this once and understand.

John 1

 1.  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
 2.  The same was in the beginning with God.
 3.  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
 4.  In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
 5.  And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
 6.  There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
 7.  The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
 8.  He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
 9.  That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
 10.  He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
 11.  He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
 12.  But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
 13.  Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
 14.  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

See mankind trys to understand God and his word with our finite thinking and it can't be done.

Isaiah 55:8  For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.Isaiah 55:9  For just as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than yours, and my thoughts than yours.

Now there are rewards for seeking God. Hebrews 11:6  You can never please God without faith, without depending on him. Anyone who wants to come to God must believe that there is a God and that he rewards those who sincerely look for him.

The 11th chapter of Hebrews is a beautiful book on faith with historical facts, one should read.

duane

[Ken Shelmerdine]

jesus the christ is the potential we all have within us, to live and be spiritual in this cold, violent world. he did not exist historically,

It always amazes me when people link together the two issues of Christ's existance and the Divinity of Christ as if the by dismissing the divinity you can also dismiss his existance as a man. Lightlizard you are wrong about there being no historical record of Christ's existance because reference to him can be found in ancient Roman and Jewish secular History. So yes he existed as a man and to deny it you may as well say all ancient history is a myth

[kitkatz]

Jesus was a great street magician.

[LightLizard]

ancient 'history' WAS a myth! since the dark ages, priests and other manipulators have purposely changed the myths into 'history' for their own benefit.
if christ actually existed as most believe, then how about odin, hercules, zues and all of the gods?
silly. if you can't read joseph campbell, or at least tom harpur, you will not see the truth and importance of mythology.

[George Jung]

The story of Jesus is about a "man" so I tend to believe that "a man" did exist.  However Jesus Christ is not "a God" or "the God".  There are only stories about his life, of which there are different accounts and interpertations.  To have an argument based on possibilities of time and self proclaimed truth is more like children using their imaginations in an epic story telling battle.

[LightLizard]

its more childish to believe that myths are history.
kind of like believing in fairy tales.

[LightLizard]

http://curezone.com/blogs/m.asp?f=535&i=52

[Ken Shelmerdine]

ancient 'history' WAS a myth! since the dark ages, priests and other manipulators have purposely changed the myths into 'history' for their own benefit.
if christ actually existed as most believe, then how about odin, hercules, zues and all of the gods?
silly. if you can't read joseph campbell, or at least tom harpur, you will not see the truth and importance of mythology.

Once again lightlizard you are confusing belief with fact. The assertion that because the ancients believed in gods that don't exist and therefore that certain historical figures such as Alexander the Great for instance did not exist is ludicrous. Did the pharoahs not exist just because the gods they worshipped were mythical. If you read the journals of the Roman Historian Tacitus and also the Jewish historian Josephas you will see that Jesus Christ is mentioned as a leader of Jewish revolt and executed as such and not proclaimed as any kind of deity.

[BigSky]

its more childish to believe that myths are history.
kind of like believing in fairy tales.

Not true.

Many myths actually are history.

Many in the science community once held that many of the American Indians history was merely myths not actual history.  More and more they are finding out these "alleged myths" actually are history.

[LightLizard]

its more childish to believe that myths are history.
kind of like believing in fairy tales.

Not true.

Many myths actually are history.

Many in the science community once held that many of the American Indians history was merely myths not actual history.  More and more they are finding out these "alleged myths" actually are history.

you mean like the 'sleeping giant' in thunder bay, ontario? the mountain range that the natives say is really 'manitou' (god) who laid down out of disgust that the tribes would not stop fighting?
get real. mythology is a way of teaching certain truths about life that can't be taught any other way.
they are not literal, historical, but are intended to inspire the listener to recognise the elements in the myth within themselves. modern man is handicapped when it comes to deciphering the messages of mythology, and if you think that a myth is a 'lie'- you are seriously mistaken. it's only a lie when we present it as literal truth, like most christians do with the parables in the bible. for instance;
the character jesus did not actually walk on water. this is a symbolic way of saying that he spoke the truth. water, to the ancients of mesopotania, was a symbol for truth. water being essential for survival in that hot, arid region. just as truth is vital for the spirit, in the hot, arid desert of ignorance.
nor did he turn water into wine. he turned truth (water) into love, (wine).
in reality, the character jesus, the messiah, had been around for many generations before christians adopted the idea of the saviour. ancient egypt had this myth in their history, long before moses.
you can't just adopt a nice-sounding set of beliefs and expect to have an easy ride.
it has never worked before, and it never will.

[Hawkeye]

you can't just adopt a nice-sounding set of beliefs and expect to have an easy ride.
it has never worked before, and it never will.

It seems to have worked pretty well up to this point.  I believe that everybody has the right to believe what they want to believe when it comes to religion.  I also have to agree on the fact that "mythology is a way of teaching certain truths about life that can't be taught any other way" which is exactly how I see religion.  Myths are always based on some fact.  Kinda like a movie that is based off a book.  The movie and the book are never the same.  I'm sure somewhere in time there was a person who Jesus was based off of.  I wouldn't even say his name was Jesus, maybe it was Fred but Jesus just sounded better.  Very similar to all the fabulous authors we have on this site who have been writting our on line story about Sam, the Bible and it's stories were written by many people over MANY years and several generations after the actual events were supposed to have taken place.  When writing our story everyone that has contributed so far has taken their own spin on it and made it their own.  You never know where it will go next.  The same can be said for the bible.  The Old Testament VS. the New Testament would be a good example.  There are things in the old that are denounced or changed in the new.  I say the Bible is a fantastic compilation of short stories written to teach / guide society down a good path, but nothing more.

[LightLizard]

well said, hawkeye, but i don't see that is has worked very well, at least, not for the purpose of attaining a peaceful world of united souls, but other than that, you write with clarity and intelligence. thanks!

love

~LL~

[Hawkeye]

well said, hawkeye, but i don't see that is has worked very well, at least, not for the purpose of attaining a peaceful world of united souls, but other than that, you write with clarity and intelligence. thanks!
love
~LL~

From the way you put it here I guess it hasn't worked very well.  I was looking at it from the stand point that as a teaching tool it has taught many generations of people "right from wrong".  The lessons are all there it's just how man chooses to interpret them and follow them.  There will never be untied peace through religion though.  History has taught us that much.  The main reason wars are fought and civilizations destroyed is because of religion.  Group A's religious beliefs are different than Group B's so they must convert them or kill them if they wont convert.  If they still practice their old religion after saying they have converted then they must be killed.  It's always follow my God to be saved or you will die and/or burn in hell for all eternity.  In my honest opinion the world will never be at peace until religion "goes away", not that it is going to happen anytime soon.  Things would be better at least if there wasn't this I'm right your wrong, my way or the highway mentality.  Maybe we need to write/rewrite the religious books and combine up all the religions into one fluid book for everyone to follow and things would be ok.

[kitkatz]

The problem is that people have choice to follow God's laws or not. Since we make up laws for ourselves anyway and choose to follow them or not, then we have choice.

[LightLizard]

well, that's the whole problem with religion. it does not unite people, as it should do.
really, it's just a way of perceiving that lets people answer the big questions in life that don't really have a final answer; 'why are we here?' 'where did we come from'? 'what happens when we die'?
these questions are essentially, unanswerable, so people make up stories and fables to feel that they have an answer. some of the most religious people i know are also the ones who fear death the most. that pretty much shows the uselessness of their 'faith' if you ask me. religion is adopted and maintained out of fear, and as long as humans avoid facing those fears directly, we will have the escapism and fantasies of religion with us. and, the war and chaos that grows from a life based in fear.

[BigSky]

you mean like the 'sleeping giant' in thunder bay, ontario? the mountain range that the natives say is really 'manitou' (god) who laid down out of disgust that the tribes would not stop fighting?
get real.

Seems you do not understand the culture or how they recorded their history.  You are trying to take it literally in how it has been translated to English and thus you see it as myth.  Because manitou is not "god" as you put it. 

As to the mountain range, the story is similar to that of the three sisters, which many in science now regard as an actual event of history happening.  That being the witness to the actual range forming.

As to religion and fear that only occurs after we are older.

My mom and her current husband are not religious.  My youngest  brother was never exposed to it.  When he was roughly 3 years old I asked him who made him and he said God.  Interesting to come from a child who was neither in daycare, school or exposed to religion dont ya think?

[LightLizard]

i lived in thunder bay, where the sleeping giant rests, and had many ojibway friends. to the ojibway, 'manitou' is the closest thing to 'god' that they have in their tradition.

as for a child's response such as that, it is well known that children will automatically absorb the beliefs of any culture they are born into without 'direct' instruction, no matter how false those beliefs are.

[BigSky]

i lived in thunder bay, where the sleeping giant rests, and had many ojibway friends. to the ojibway, 'manitou' is the closest thing to 'god' that they have in their tradition.

I am not going to get into an argument.

The creator is Gitchie Manito.

[LightLizard]

no, it's groucho marx.
 

[LightLizard]

and lets not forget that poor manic depressive dyslexic agnostic.

he can't get out of bed and just lays there wondering
if there really is a dog.

 

[hyperlite]

I leave the boards for a couple of months, come back, and this thread is still going. Almost goes to show you that no matter how long you argue about people's "beliefs" its impossible to convince everyone. I'm sure there are people out there who still believe that the Earth is flat...

[Hawkeye]

I leave the boards for a couple of months, come back, and this thread is still going. Almost goes to show you that no matter how long you argue about people's "beliefs" its impossible to convince everyone. I'm sure there are people out there who still believe that the Earth is flat...

You mean it's not?!?!?!?!?