Is there a GOD? - ding! ding! ding ding geeeeet reaaaaaady toooooo rummmmble!!!!

[Yonanamama]

But...God has the power to protect that child.  I don't!  You can be assured, if I did...I would.  Bottom line...God gets all of the glory but none of the blame.

Because one doesn't use said power in all cases that means they allowed it?  Sorry it doesn't work that way anymore since Adam and Eve days.  It was mankind that set itself down this path and therefore we must take good with the bad.

You want to hold God accountable for mankind's actions on earth, sorry but mankind is responsible for mankind's actions on earth.  God will hold them accountable in his realm when the time comes.

There ya go with that "free will" crap!  LOL

[BigSky]

There ya go with that "free will" crap!  LOL

Really now.  Is it your claim you and no one else is  responsible for their actions they commit?

[paris]

God - your higher power of choice - put it all in motion.  Yes, there are people that believe things are " God's will"-- I don't. Things happen.  But really, do you watch the sun rise, sit and be in awe of the ocean, climb a mountain top, feel the love of a child, and then marvel at the strength of a storm and look for the rainbow -- and think it just happens?  I have more than enough reasons to not believe in God-- horrible things happened to me as a child, lost many important people in my life; but for some reason, never thought God was doing this do me. I am educated, well-read, well-traveled and find strength in sitting in a chapel, a temple, gazing at Buddah, and I find strength all of nature around me.  This is an interesting thread.  I love to hear what other people do or don't believe in.  For me, I find comfort in having a "place" to go to with my fears and my joys.

[Razman]

**  "23rd Psalm"  **

This is an eye opener;  probably we never thought nor looked
at this 23rd Psalm in this way, even though we say it over
and over again.

The Lord is my Shepherd!
That's Relationship!

I shall not want
That's Supply!

He maketh me lie down in green pastures
That's Rest!

He leadeth me beside the still waters
That's Refreshment!

He restoreth my soul
That's Healing!

He leadeth me in the paths of righteousness
That's Guidance!

For His name sake
That's Purpose!

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death
That's Testing!

I will fear no evil
That's Protection!

For Thou art with me
That's Faithfulness!

Thy rod and Thy staff they comfort me
That's Discipline!

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies
That's Hope!

Thou annointest my head with oil
That's Consecration!

My cup runneth over
That's Abundance!

Surely goodness and mercy shall follow all the days of my life
That's Blessing!

And I will dwell in the house of the Lord
That's Security!

Forever
That's Eternity!

--Author Unknown

[Yonanamama]

There ya go with that "free will" crap!  LOL

Really now.  Is it your claim you and no one else is  responsible for their actions they commit?

BigSky:  ?  I'm not sure I understand your question.  But, I want to be clear about this; I believe that we are all responsible for our own actions.  And, just once I would like an answer to my question that DOES NOT include the phrase "free will."  I think that is a cop out answer for ""I don't know!" 

[George Jung]

So did "God" create dinosaurs?

[Yonanamama]

God - your higher power of choice - put it all in motion.  Yes, there are people that believe things are " God's will"-- I don't. Things happen.  But really, do you watch the sun rise, sit and be in awe of the ocean, climb a mountain top, feel the love of a child, and then marvel at the strength of a storm and look for the rainbow -- and think it just happens?  I have more than enough reasons to not believe in God-- horrible things happened to me as a child, lost many important people in my life; but for some reason, never thought God was doing this do me. I am educated, well-read, well-traveled and find strength in sitting in a chapel, a temple, gazing at Buddah, and I find strength all of nature around me.  This is an interesting thread.  I love to hear what other people do or don't believe in.  For me, I find comfort in having a "place" to go to with my fears and my joys.

As do I, Paris.  And that place is my family & friends.  Up to this point I have had a WONDERFUL life full of love, laughter, comfort, great friends and great health.   I have also had hard times too!  But, I didn't pray to anyone or anything to help me through them.  Nor, have I ever given thanks anyone or anything for giving me what I have.  I work hard to maintain healthy relationships and I believe that "what goes around, comes around."  That is why I try to be the best person that I can be.  Not because a book or a clergyman tells me that I should, but because somehow, inside I just know that's the right thing to do.  And because I know that I can only expect to be treated the same as I treat others.  Common sense is all it is.  These are my beliefs...and I'm stickin' to em!  LOL  Thanks for listening.

[Yonanamama]

God - your higher power of choice - put it all in motion.  Yes, there are people that believe things are " God's will"-- I don't. Things happen.  But really, do you watch the sun rise, sit and be in awe of the ocean, climb a mountain top, feel the love of a child, and then marvel at the strength of a storm and look for the rainbow -- and think it just happens?  I have more than enough reasons to not believe in God-- horrible things happened to me as a child, lost many important people in my life; but for some reason, never thought God was doing this do me. I am educated, well-read, well-traveled and find strength in sitting in a chapel, a temple, gazing at Buddah, and I find strength all of nature around me.  This is an interesting thread.  I love to hear what other people do or don't believe in.  For me, I find comfort in having a "place" to go to with my fears and my joys.

Sunrise, ocean, mountain top, love of a child, strength of a storm, rainbow.  So, what you're saying is God is nature?   Assuming your answer is yes, then GOD wiped out a quarter of a million people in a tsunami in December, 2005.  Should we marvel at that?  Goes back to my question, why does God get all the glory, but never the blame?

[BigSky]

BigSky:  ?  I'm not sure I understand your question.  But, I want to be clear about this; I believe that we are all responsible for our own actions.  And, just once I would like an answer to my question that DOES NOT include the phrase "free will."  I think that is a cop out answer for ""I don't know!" 

Free will is just that, one being responsible for control over their own actions and decisions.  It doesn't matter if you use the "phrase"  or not because in fact you are indeed using free will.

[paris]

Interesting - your first two posts were full of compassion, and that you are donating a kidney shows your care for your fellow man. Then, the rest of the posts are bashing God and those who believe in a higher power. Funny thing is -- we are the ones with kidney failure. Maybe when you are the one going thru hell, you may need to reach out for something else.  I have the most supportive family and friends. I lead my life with dignity and feel I must give back to those around me.  I hope you never have these trials to face, but I am grateful for my spiritual side to help me through those dark nights when nothing is going right.   Do not confuse fundimentalist with all believers.  I am not waiting for God to make my kidneys to start functioning again.  I am grateful for the miracle of doctors and medicines.  I have a friend that thinks if I had a laying of hands service, my kidneys could work again.  There are so many different levels of beliefs.   
Anyway, hope your day is full of goodness and happiness. 

[Yonanamama]

Interesting - your first two posts were full of compassion, and that you are donating a kidney shows your care for your fellow man. Then, the rest of the posts are bashing God and those who believe in a higher power. Funny thing is -- we are the ones with kidney failure. Maybe when you are the one going thru hell, you may need to reach out for something else.  I have the most supportive family and friends. I lead my life with dignity and feel I must give back to those around me.  I hope you never have these trials to face, but I am grateful for my spiritual side to help me through those dark nights when nothing is going right.   Do not confuse fundimentalist with all believers.  I am not waiting for God to make my kidneys to start functioning again.  I am grateful for the miracle of doctors and medicines.  I have a friend that thinks if I had a laying of hands service, my kidneys could work again.  There are so many different levels of beliefs.   
Anyway, hope your day is full of goodness and happiness. 

Paris, for the record...I am not "BASHING" anybody.  I have 2 daughters, a son in law, 3 grandchildren, 9 nieces, 7 nephews and countless friends who are believers.  They offer thanks to God before a meal.  When they do, I respectfully bow my head and fold my hands.  I read bible stories to my grandchildren and get on my knees with them when they say their prayers at night.  I adopt a needy family from my neighborhood church at holiday time and donate toys, clothes and money!  I tell you this not for a pat on the back, but to hopefully give you a little glimpse into my character.  I'm not out there on a pulpit trying to get believers to "not believe."  I'm just waiting for someone to come up with some  different answers.  So, please don't misstate my intent here.
OF COURSE I care about my fellow man! Why else would I have stepped forward to try to help my recipient?    I have compassion & love in my heart, and a sincere desire to make a difference in somebody's life. I chose to donate a kidney BECAUSE of dialysis.  And, don't think for one moment that I haven't had my share of trials to face.  I've had plenty.  But, this isn't a pity party and I don't intend to turn it into one.  My faith is in myself!  I've never said a prayer in my life and yet I'm having a great one!  Hopefully, it'll last for many, many more years.  But, who knows?  I could be here "same time next year" as a dialysis patient.   I hope not, but it's a risk I take.  And if that ends up happening, I will have FAITH IN MY FELLOW MAN not GOD, that someone will come forward to help me out!  P.S.  Tsk, tsk on the    Now, that wasn't very nice of you! 

[George Jung]

So someone sent me this (crap) and it ticks me off.  It doesn't tick me off in a way that ruins my day or anything, I just don't understand it.

> The Brick!!! Read It.
>
>
>
> Read this today and don't delete it if you are too
> busy!! You'll see.
>
>
>
>
>
> THE BRICK
> 
>
>
>
> A young and successful executive was traveling down
> a neighborhood street,
> going a bit too fast in his new Jaguar. He was
> watching for kids darting out
> from between parked cars and slowed down
>
> when he thought he saw something. As his car passed,
> no children appeared .
> Instead, a brick smashed into the Jag's side door!
> He slammed on the brakes and
> backed the Jag back to the spot where the brick had
> been thrown. The angry
> driver 
> then jumped out of the car, grabbed the nearest kid
> and pushed him up against
> 
 
> a parked car shouting, "What was that all about and
> who are you? Just what
> the heck are you doing? That's a new car and that
> brick you threw is going to
> cost a lot of money. Why did you do it?" The young
> boy was apologetic. "Please,
> mister...please, I'm sorry but I didn't know what
> else to do," He pleaded. "I
> threw the brick because no one else would stop..."
> With tears dripping down
> his face and off his chin, the youth pointed to a
> spot just around a parked car.
> "It's my brother, "he said. "He rolled off the curb
> and fell out of his
> wheelchair and I can't lift him u p."
> 
>
>
> Now sobbing, the boy asked the stunned executive,
> "Would you please help me
> get him back into his wheelchair? He's hurt and he's
> too heavy for me."
> 
> Moved beyond words, the driver tried to swallow the
> rapidly swelling lump in
> his throat. He hurriedly lifted the handicapped boy
> back into the wheelchair,
> then took out a linen handkerchief and dabbed at the
> fresh scrapes and cuts. A
> quick look told him everything was going to be okay.
> "Thank you and may God
> bless you," the grateful child told the stranger.
> Too shook up for words, the
> man simply watched the boy! push his
> wheelchair-bound brother down the sidewalk
> toward their home.
> 
>
> It was a long, slow walk back to the Jaguar. The
> damage was very noticeable,
> but the driver never bothered to repair the dented
> side door. He kept the dent
> there to remind him of this message: "Don't go
> through life so fast that
> someone has to throw a brick at you to get your
> attention!" God whispers in our
> souls and speaks to our hearts. Sometimes when we
> don't have time to listen, He
> has to throw a brick at us. It's our choice to
> listen or not.
> 
>

What is that supposed to mean?  If we don't pray to "God" he will give us something that will make us want to pray?  Did "God" give me a kidney disease so I would "listen"?  Sounds to me like another one of man's ideas to me, and a dumb one at that.

[okarol]

George,
I think it means that sometimes we are speeding through life and we don't see the misfortune of others. We don't stop to help.
Not sure it's a God thing, more like a good person thing. My God doesn't throw bricks or whisper in my ear (but that's just me!)

[paris]

Sorry, I am full of pain right now and maybe things came out wrong.  I hurt too much to walk, but somehow must continue to work, so come home in tears. Today we got the call that if my husband wants to see his sister before she dies, he needs to come immediately. She has had breast cancer for 3 years and lived with so much grace though everything. It is has gone to her brain, spine, liver and she is on morphine drip round the clock. Hospice says it is only days.   She is a wonderful person and has been a real trooper, never giving up and always looking forward.  Today is a hard day.


WOULDN'T EPOMAN HAVE LOVED ALL THESE POSTS!!!!   He would be eating , drinking and waiting for the boxing gloves to come off!!!  Miss you, Epoman!!!!

[kitkatz]

I can only say that walking through hell is an interesting walk. If God has handed me all of this crap to deal with, then I want my money back!

[Razman]

I can only say that walking through hell is an interesting walk. If God has handed me all of this crap to deal with, then I want my money back!

   What if there is a heaven and a hell. Where would you want to be for an eternity.  For  me and my house we'll choose the Lord. It's easy to just say that God gave us a bad deal but we can choose our eternity.

[Yonanamama]

Sorry, I am full of pain right now and maybe things came out wrong.  I hurt too much to walk, but somehow must continue to work, so come home in tears. Today we got the call that if my husband wants to see his sister before she dies, he needs to come immediately. She has had breast cancer for 3 years and lived with so much grace though everything. It is has gone to her brain, spine, liver and she is on morphine drip round the clock. Hospice says it is only days.   She is a wonderful person and has been a real trooper, never giving up and always looking forward.  Today is a hard day.


WOULDN'T EPOMAN HAVE LOVED ALL THESE POSTS!!!!   He would be eating , drinking and waiting for the boxing gloves to come off!!!  Miss you, Epoman!!!!

You and your family are in my thoughts!

[Ohio Buckeye]

I'm sorry Paris.

One can spend a lot of time questioning and asking why, how, if, but... etc.
and bickering and not accomplish anything.
I just know I choose to believe and have the hope only He gives and
live with that hope and leave this earth with it and for me that is a good thing.
Everything else down here is temporary.  It really is.
I would think just listening to the news would dampen one's trust in mankind tho.
Certainly not where I'd place my trust.

[Sluff]

Sorry, I am full of pain right now and maybe things came out wrong.  I hurt too much to walk, but somehow must continue to work, so come home in tears. Today we got the call that if my husband wants to see his sister before she dies, he needs to come immediately. She has had breast cancer for 3 years and lived with so much grace though everything. It is has gone to her brain, spine, liver and she is on morphine drip round the clock. Hospice says it is only days.   She is a wonderful person and has been a real trooper, never giving up and always looking forward.  Today is a hard day.


WOULDN'T EPOMAN HAVE LOVED ALL THESE POSTS!!!!   He would be eating , drinking and waiting for the boxing gloves to come off!!!  Miss you, Epoman!!!!

Paris I can almost feel your pain. I'm sorry that you have to work through this. you are probably thinking what else can you do. My prayers are with you. 

[skyedogrocks]

Just found this thread, very interesting.

I, without a doubt, believe in God.  I talk to him in good times and in bad, I praise him, question him and love him all the same.  I believe in Jesus, the Saints and Angels.  I am Catholic, went to Catholic schools my whole life and went to Church every week while growing up.  Now I am mad and upset with the Catholic Church, upset with the sexual abuse cover-up and the politics that surround the Catholic Church.

While I don't believe that God created this earth (there are way too many scientific discoveries to prove this), I do believe he is all around and watches over us.  I believe in miracles.  I believe he gives us challenges to see how we will deal with things.  I believe that if we lead a good life, peace will find us when we die.   Is there a heaven or hell?  Who knows, but i do feel that there is something else beyond death.  I like to think that we will see our loved ones who have already passed and they will welcome us with open arms.  Nobody knows what will happen, that is the beauty and mystery of it all. 

I think it's healthy to have these debates, but in the end we all believe what we want to believe.   

[st789]

Sometimes I believe and sometimes I don't.

[Sara]

While I don't believe that God created this earth (there are way too many scientific discoveries to prove this), I do believe he is all around and watches over us.  I believe in miracles.  I believe he gives us challenges to see how we will deal with things.  I believe that if we lead a good life, peace will find us when we die.   Is there a heaven or hell?  Who knows, but i do feel that there is something else beyond death.  I like to think that we will see our loved ones who have already passed and they will welcome us with open arms.  Nobody knows what will happen, that is the beauty and mystery of it all. 

I think it's interesting that you feel God is capable of some things but not others.  Seems contradictory to me.  (No disrespect, I realize that's your opinion  )

[angela515]

I like the way Epoman described God's creating of the Earth. How 1 day could mean 1 million years, not 24 hours... and so on. Makes more sense and fits the science into it all.

[skyedogrocks]

While I don't believe that God created this earth (there are way too many scientific discoveries to prove this), I do believe he is all around and watches over us.  I believe in miracles.  I believe he gives us challenges to see how we will deal with things.  I believe that if we lead a good life, peace will find us when we die.   Is there a heaven or hell?  Who knows, but i do feel that there is something else beyond death.  I like to think that we will see our loved ones who have already passed and they will welcome us with open arms.  Nobody knows what will happen, that is the beauty and mystery of it all. 

I think it's interesting that you feel God is capable of some things but not others.  Seems contradictory to me.  (No disrespect, I realize that's your opinion  )

I grew up believing in Adam & Eve, I didn't know anything else.  However, as I got older, science just made more sense  .  These days, I am guided by spirituality and not the Catholic Church. 

[Sara]

I like the way Epoman described God's creating of the Earth. How 1 day could mean 1 million years, not 24 hours... and so on. Makes more sense and fits the science into it all.

Exactly.  The way I feel, it could be 1 day = 1 million years or whatever, or it could have really happened in 6 days.  Or it could be something else.  It doesn't threaten my religious beliefs because I believe God is capable of anything.  And really, all of the technical, scientific explanations show what a miracle life really is.  How could all this NOT have divine involvement?