Is there a GOD? - ding! ding! ding ding geeeeet reaaaaaady toooooo rummmmble!!!!

[jennyc]

Come on people, we are all adults, we can all handle a nice friendly debate without running to the mods for help every 5 seconds. I know religion is a contentscious subject but we don't have to get agro at each other. This is a good thought provoking thread. let not get it locked hey?

Can't we discuss the nature of religion without insulting each others beliefs. No two people hold the EXACT same beliefs whether you be Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Athiest etc.

[jennyc]

Aleta   

  Ok, I wasn't ready to end this. Does anyone who comes here know anything about particle physics so we can discus how it might point out tht there is some  (excuse me I hate to use this term it is so fought with meaning) "design" to the way the universe exists?

I would love to get you and my dad in a room together, you'd have a blast (same thought lines, you'd have a mad discussion). I enjoy physics and yes the more i learn about science the more you can see god and patterns in everything. Do you think they'll find the higgs boson? (God Particle they think started the big bang)

[Hemodoc]

WOW,  I have been away at a class all day and checked if there had been any activity a few minutes ago.  Not much to respond to since it has been filled with outright insults all day and no redeemable posts except for a few here and there.  I would say that this thread is way off topic.  If it ever returns to topic, and if anyone ever has any questions about what the Bible does or does not say about whether there is a God, to the best of my ability I will respond. 

Otherwise I bid all a fond fair well from a topic of great interest and great importance now completely gone astray.  If people can't remain civil even in disagreement, then that is really a form of anarchy.  To Rerun and my other brothers and sisters in Christ, I enjoyed your joy of sharing your faith.  Once again, if basic manners ever return and people can debate merits of evidence, then it would be fun to continue.

God bless to all,

Peter

[glitter]

It would be a tragedy for ANY thread of Epomans to close, because of ANY reason...especially for this reason ...like one more thing of his we would lose......

[pamster42000]

Life is too short to get involved in a discusion where there are too many opinions and to try to figure out who is right and who is wrong. . We all have our beliefs and in the end each of us will find out the real answer. Live life and enjoy it. Having hard feeling takes away from the time where you could be happy.

I really do like you guys but enough is enough..

Gee did I say that??? 

[rocker]

I really do like you guys but enough is enough..

Gee did I say that???

You did say it...

I can't believe it...

You like me!  You really really like me!

 - rocker
   who apologizes to everyone too young to get the Sally Field joke

[Stoday]

(Talking of Rerun)
I did not find her prayer offensive - but I am used to hearing it.  I was wondering if it would be offensive to people who do not hear such things regularly.  I am curious.

I've not heard it before. But I didn't find it offensive in the least. For me, it's irrelevant and meaningless.

Some for the Glories of This World; and some
Sigh for the Prophet's Paradise to come;
Ah, take the Cash, and let the Credit go,
Nor heed the rumble of a distant Drum!

[BigSky]

Furthermore, I never called you names. I may have thought of some uncomplimentary monikers for you, but decorum dictates that I hold my tongue. On the other hand, you have called me a rather unpleasant name - sinner - and it appears you did so with some relish.

Respectfully,
Aleta

Actually since you do not believe in God of the Bible the description of "sinner" should have no effect on you what so ever and should not be unpleasant to you because that is not your belief system.

As we know that to be the case that means you are trying to play the victim card when there is none.

[Hanify]

Is anyone listening to Okarol?  If you're not listening to God then at least listen to Okarol!

[jennyc]

Dear jennyc, kinda of neat issue, the only problem with using this as science is it is completely hypothetical.  It also doesn't explain where the matter that makes up the universe comes from in the first place.  The first cause.  Where did all of this dirt come from in the first place.  If we exclude God, we still come back to matters of faith in what you believe.  In the beginning dirt, or in the beginning God.  Both are religious.

The Higgs boson is a hypothetical massive scalar elementary particle predicted to exist by the Standard Model in particle physics. At present there are no known fundamental scalar particles in nature.
The Higgs boson is the only Standard Model particle that has not been observed. Experimental detection of the Higgs boson would help explain the origin of mass in the universe. The Higgs boson would explain the difference between the massless photon, which mediates electromagnetism, and the massive W and Z bosons, which mediate the weak force. If the Higgs boson exists, it is an integral and pervasive component of the material world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson

Cut and paste..... we used to get into so much trouble for that at uni........................  jokes dear! This is why i love debate. I left Uni- BSc (1997) when my grandfater got prostate cancer and my mother and i took turns caring for him. I would love to return but there is no way in this current time that i could concentrate hard enough to study science anymore. So yes i understand wikipedia, The Higgs Boson is so much more. the ultimate answer for me is what started the big bang, where did all that energy and mass come from in the beginging (GOD)... to cut a long (very long, not a pun just a reference to my scientific and religious beliefs. I know i laid out a very basic version but i would probably be hearalded a pagan if you know how i mix my religion and science) story short the start of the big bang was like the hand of God, simply put i belive in God but not as described in the bible as it was written by humans, therefore it's got another persons interpretation on it so i don't take it leterally. "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." Albert Einstein

To me the bible is more of a guide showing how to live and to be a good and moral person. Have you ever read the Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy?  ""The argument goes something like this: 'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, 'for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.' "'But,' says Man, 'The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.' "'Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanished in a puff of logic."------- which is why i beleive science will never have the answer to everything!

[okarol]

Is anyone listening to Okarol?  If you're not listening to God then at least listen to Okarol!

Thanks Hanify.
Hey my hubby reminded me that we're all sinners.
 

[del]

Whether it's God or some higher power or Science I am thankful for life and all the beautiful things in the world.  Maybe it is a combination of all. Maybe instead of trying to prove being right we should just look at what we have and be thankful.

And yes okarol we are all sinners even people who are "saints"

[Slywalker]

Del - well said.   

[dwcrawford]

And don't forget Pamster... she can usually sum things up quite well.

Now, I'll start again .... sorry folks.


First, my apologizes to BS and PK for coming in here again after promising not to, but I do have one more thing I need to say and won’t come back again – until I do.  I want to talk a bit about god and higher powers.

Sometimes I get the impression that words like “I’m praying for you” are just words.  I am amazed that the many different kinds of Christians posting are posting instead of praying for the victims of the Haiti earthquake.  So start doing it!  I think it proves my theory of my higher power and the good and evil therein.  This must be a huge example of universal evil.  Well, I suppose it could be that the biblical god couldn’t eradicate homosexual activity or Catholics with aids, so he is trying once more to get the last few of them – whatever the collateral damage.  FYI:  I don’t really believe that for a minute.

So I challenge you praying Christians to pray for the people of Haiti and then get off your ()s and help in humanitarian aid however you can.  The Red Cross is broke.  What can you afford to send?  I know it is a really low month for me as January comes property taxes, car insurance, etc. and I have a dear friend I want to share with too.  But I will find a little and then there is February.  What else can we do?  I have no idea but you are all brilliant in this discussion.  Put your creative thoughts to work here!  On TV this morning one of the things mentioned needed immediately was dialysis machines.  Ring a bell!  I’d say in a lighter moment that they can have mine, but this is not a time for levity.  Is there any way we could talk to Davita or other dialysis companies about sending machines?  I don’t know and I’m sure it would be through the Surgeon General, but… as I said, you are all so creative.

My point is I’m just asking for your concern.  I’m sure all prayers, money and/or machines would be useful.  Maybe, though, you have more practical ideas.  Look at your TV screen at the devastation.

I was so depressed with my dead fern a few days ago.  Now this really puts life into perspective.  It could be worse you know.  Dialysis sucks, but you could have dialysis with no support from your friends, or you could have kidney failure lying on the streets in Haiti with no machines.  I don’t know what would be worse than that but I’m sure there is something.

Some days I really want to leave dialysis.  Then I think of Hamlet and “rather bare those ills we have than…”  Some days I really want to leave IHD. And then I think of all the lovely people in here.  Hehe.  I just tried to name you all but gave up.   

I am sorry for the earlier name calling.  Sincerely.  My anger got the better of me.   I will not, however, play the victim.  I’m as guilty as anyone with the name calling and insults.  Accept my apology if you can, otherwise hurl a few more insults.  I’ll try and take them gracefully.

[paris]

Thank you all for taking a deep breathe!   Hanify, thanks for the reminder to listen to Okarol.        Dan, you wrote a sincere post, thank you. It isn't easy to take the high road.

To all:  we need to remember that all of us have days that are not the best.  We really never know what someone is dealing with in their life when they are posting comments.  As a wise lady told me when I first joined, this is a site with sick people -and there are good days and bad days.  I can look at my posts and tell if I was having a good or bad day.    Thanks to all for getting back on track   

[tyefly]

    thx  Dan......   I could feel the words that you were saying..... 

[fc2821]

Dan, paris, pam good posts.    for people in Hati because it is the right thing to do.
                                          Rob

[Hemodoc]

Matthew 5:43: Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44: But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45: That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46: For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47: And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48: Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

[BigSky]

So I challenge you praying Christians to pray for the people of Haiti and then get off your ()s and help in humanitarian aid however you can.  The Red Cross is broke.  What can you afford to send?

In case you didnt know many Christian churches and Christians were already in Haiti trying to help out and were giving money to Haiti for humanitarian before the earthquake hit.

[dwcrawford]

I knew that.  But thank you for the reminder.  I hope they are all safe.  This is exactly what I meant.  If we all work together and share information there are things we might be able to do.  Do you know specifically who these groups are or do you have a way to contact them.  I wonder what there needs are?  I know I'm being simplistic but I'm really concerned,

[nursewratchet]

The needs in Haiti right now are basic.  Food, water, clothing and toiletries of any and all kinds.  Money,money, money.  Any items or cash can be directed to the Red Cross.


This is off topic, but improtant.  Then again, is it really off topic?  It is helping those in need.

[okarol]

Hi Nurse,
It is off topic to this thread, but you are welcome to start a new one regarding aide to Haiti.
Thanks,
okarol/admin

[dwcrawford]

I do apologize to all for getting the thread way too off topic. 
Apparently it is better to fight and call names of who's god is god than it is to try and to something godly.  I apologize for apologizing to everyone.  I tried to take all the blame for a little bit of civility but it didn't work.
Back to "is there a god..."  if so,  I  feel sure he/she/it is embarassed over this thread.

[okarol]

Dan,
It's not about you.
It's about the topic.
Please do not make a big deal where there is none.
Nurse mentioned it and I think it's a good idea to start a new thread about Haiti so it's not lost in this thread.
Try not to take things personally. I do the best I can to keep some order, even if it does feel like sometimes the inmates are running the asylum.

I started a new thread http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=17414.0 Haiti Earthquake.

okarol/admin

[Rerun]

Thank you Karol.

          There is a God.