Is there a GOD? - ding! ding! ding ding geeeeet reaaaaaady toooooo rummmmble!!!!

[del]

I have a question for those who are well versed in the biblical scriptures.  My husband has asked many people including many religious leaders and they have not been able to give him an answer.  Adam and Eve were the first people on earth (God created them) t. They had 2 sons Cain and Abel. Cain murdered Abel and he was banished into an far off land and took unto himself a wife. If Adam and Eve were the first people created when God made the world where did the wife come from??  There were no other people in the world.  How did the world populate if only 2 people to start with - their children had to have had sex with each other to create more people??  I have lots of other questions as well.

That's so true willowtree.  Heaven is supposed to be up in the sky??  Why is it all outer space there. I really and truly believe that at some point we will come in contact with some type of life out there. 

[dwcrawford]

Del, how insightful.  I'd never thought of that.  When does the gender become definited in a chld?  At conception?  Maybe male/female had not fully evolved with Adam and Eve and Cain and Abel?  Maybe they propogated by having sex with each other?  Often I her people quote "Adam and Eve" not "Adam and Steve".  Is that possible or is that just a same sex attraction slur?

[tyefly]

   there are many organisms that are  asexual

[Hemodoc]

I'd like opinions on this, please.  Nowhere in the Bible does it say that planet Earth is the only place where God has seen fit to create life.   How do you think people will think about religon, and God if and when we make contact with another planet?   
        Me, I don't know.  That's why I asked all of you.

From my vantage point the Bible doesn't mention other worlds since it was written by people in a culture who thought the stars rested on a dome that arched over the sky. They had no concept that stars were suns or galaxies. In fact, the word planet derives from wanderer because the early people could not explain the wandering "stars" they saw in the night sky. Because these early peoples (whose emerging technology included the spade and plow) had no concept of other planets, neither did their gods. Gods as creations that spring from the creativity of human thought can only have as much knowledge as their creators can imagine.

Dear Aleta, it is a popular misconception that the Bible is unscientific and actually anti-scientific when in fact there are many, many scientific facts not discovered until the last 100 or so years.   The circle of the earth, the multitude of stars, etc are all mentioned thousands of years ago while the popular science of the times when it was written were truly primitive by our current standards.  I found an excellent website that lists the verses and the specific aspect that we have only recently learned over the last many decades.  Imagination or divine knowledge of the creation that He created.

Scientific Foreknowledge in the Bible

http://www.creationists.org/scientific-foreknowledge-in-the-bible.html

[del]

I have a question for those who are well versed in the biblical scriptures.  My husband has asked many people including many religious leaders and they have not been able to give him an answer.  Adam and Eve were the first people on earth (God created them) t. They had 2 sons Cain and Abel. Cain murdered Abel and he was banished into an far off land and took unto himself a wife. If Adam and Eve were the first people created when God made the world where did the wife come from??  There were no other people in the world.  How did the world populate if only 2 people to start with - their children had to have had sex with each other to create more people??  I have lots of other questions as well.

That's so true willowtree.  Heaven is supposed to be up in the sky??  Why is it all outer space there. I really and truly believe that at some point we will come in contact with some type of life out there.

Hemodoc, do you have an answer to my question???

[Hemodoc]

       I'd like opinions on this, please.  Nowhere in the Bible does it say that planet Earth is the only place where God has seen fit to create life.   How do you think people will think about religon, and God if and when we make contact with another planet?   
        Me, I don't know.  That's why I asked all of you.

I agree with Rerun that God has set forth mankind and life only on one planet out of the entire universe.  Reading through the entire Bible, all of God's attention is focussed only on this earth, heaven and hell.   There is absolutely no references to life anywhere else outside of the earth from a biblical perspective.

Many speculate that there is life in outer space on other planets which have never yet been identified, which to date we have absolutely zero evidence whatsoever.  Yet most people have the faith to believe in life in outer space but no faith to believe in the God of the Bible despite all of the evidence that God has given to us in so many ways.  My vote, is no, there is not life anywhere else but earth.  We all have an eternal destiny by the choices we make here on earth.  That is the Bible perspective as Rerun already mentioned.  Going back to to the crucifixion, the Bible testifies that Jesus died for those of the earth/world.

John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 

So the entire focus of the Bible is this world only.  when He is done with this world, the Bible states that He will create a new heavens and a new earth.

Revelation 21:1: And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

The Mormons on the other hand have a quite different extra-biblical take on this and teach that you can become a god of your own world and populate that planet, but this is way outside of what the Bible states.  This comes from the book of Mormon and other documents of the Mormon church. It is not from the Bible.

Once again, my vote is no, we are the one and only inhabited planet.  That is the biblical perspective.

[Hemodoc]

I have a question for those who are well versed in the biblical scriptures.  My husband has asked many people including many religious leaders and they have not been able to give him an answer.  Adam and Eve were the first people on earth (God created them) t. They had 2 sons Cain and Abel. Cain murdered Abel and he was banished into an far off land and took unto himself a wife. If Adam and Eve were the first people created when God made the world where did the wife come from??  There were no other people in the world.  How did the world populate if only 2 people to start with - their children had to have had sex with each other to create more people??  I have lots of other questions as well.

That's so true willowtree.  Heaven is supposed to be up in the sky??  Why is it all outer space there. I really and truly believe that at some point we will come in contact with some type of life out there.

Hemodoc, do you have an answer to my question???

Dear Del,

The Bible does not actually specify who Cain's wife was, but we do know that there was no admonition against marrying your sister until the time of Moses and the Law that was handed down.  In fact, most people do not know that Abraham did indeed marry his sister.

Genesis 20: And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah.
3: But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife.
4: But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?
5: Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.
6: And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
7: Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.
8: Therefore Abimelech rose early in the morning, and called all his servants, and told all these things in their ears: and the men were sore afraid.
9: Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.
10: And Abimelech said unto Abraham, What sawest thou, that thou hast done this thing?
11: And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake.
12: And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.
13: And it came to pass, when God caused me to wander from my father's house, that I said unto her, This is thy kindness which thou shalt shew unto me; at every place whither we shall come, say of me, He is my brother.

So, until the time of Moses, there were no condemnations against marrying your sister.  From a biological sense, today we all have an average of three lethal mutations.  From the time of creation until the time of Abraham, the accumulated genetic mutations would not have anywhere near the accumulated mutations we see today, thus no need for an admonition against marrying your sister from a biological point of view.  So, Abraham is recorded to have married his sister which was a custom of his time and not prohibited until over 400 years later during the time of Moses. 

So who did Cain marry?  Answer one of his many, many sisters.

[del]

But how did his sister get to a far off land???

[Hemodoc]

Del, how insightful.  I'd never thought of that.  When does the gender become definited in a chld?  At conception?  Maybe male/female had not fully evolved with Adam and Eve and Cain and Abel?  Maybe they propogated by having sex with each other?  Often I her people quote "Adam and Eve" not "Adam and Steve".  Is that possible or is that just a same sex attraction slur?

Dear Dan, the genetic sexual determination of a child is formed at conception with the Y chromosome.  However, we have genotypes and we have phenotypes.  Genotype is the DNA and chromosomes. Phenotype is the outward expression of the genotype.  However,t here are mutations, disease states and inutero abnormalities that can lead to a male child genetically being born with female organs externally.  This again is called the phenotypic expression of the genotype. Wikipedia gives a good overview of this issue.  Hope this answers the issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y_chromosome

[dwcrawford]

Dear Peter, It was NO Issue but rather a tongue in cheek comment to del (who got it incidently).

[Hemodoc]

But how did his sister get to a far off land???

Dear Del, that is a little different question than who did he marry.  In fact, the Bible does not answer all questions that we could ask.  If you are asking for a direct answer to that question, I will simply state I don't know, it is not specified how far away Cain moved.  One day's travel, 10 days, a hundred days.  Just not specified.

However, the Bible testifies that Adam lived for 950 years and had had sons and daughters. It is likely that the earth was populated quite rapidly after the creation according to the Bible.  The Bible does not also specify how old Cain was when he married as well. With hundreds of years of time to do this, traveling to a far land would be no more limited than it was a few centuries back when we had Marco Polo travel in his short lifetime all the way to China and back again.

So, in short, I do not have any specific answer to how Cain or his wife got to a far land, but it was not a hindrance to those over the last few hundred years to accomplish great travels without modern travel.  The Bible states that He created the earth to be inhabited, and it looks like it was very early on after the creation even by a second generation person, Cain and his sister, or niece, whoever she was, it was populate even in far away lands.

[Hanify]

Oh for goodness sake!  Really!!!  Who cares whether it was true or not.  Why does it matter.  It's just a story.
Well, that's my opinion anyway.

[Rerun]

But, thank you Hemodoc for the explanation.

                     

[Hemodoc]

Oh for goodness sake!  Really!!!  Who cares whether it was true or not.  Why does it matter.  It's just a story.
Well, that's my opinion anyway.

Is is just a story, or is it instead the true history of man, the creation and the flood?  Jesus believed the stories of Genesis were real events and quoted often from Genesis.  In fact, the first possible reference to the the sacrifice of God's Son comes in the book of Genesis:

Genesis 22:7: And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
8: And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

Very interesting choice of words, are they prophetic as many believe since we know the rest of the story of God's Son as the Lamb of God and His crucifixion to take away the sins of the world?

Nearly 2000 years ago, Peter addressed this issue in a very interesting set of verses as well dealing with the creation and the flood:

II Peter 3:3: Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4: And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5: For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

II Peter 3:8: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Moses likewise spoke of one day being a thousand years which leads me to believe that Peter was speaking prophetically of a literal thousand years for one day to God.

Psalm 90:4: For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

Adding one further Scripture, there is a very interesting speculation on whether Peter knew and referred to this last next set of verses and Psalm 90:4 when He wrote his epistle, that of Hosea:

Hosea 3:4: For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim:
5: Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.
Hosea 5:15: I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early. . .
Hosea 6:1: Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2: After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
3: Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

Interesting isn't it that Peter spoke of these things as one day with the Lord as thousand years.  I further believe that Peter knew that these events would take place about two thousand years later based on Psalm 90:4 and those listed above in Hosea.  It has only been the last 150 years or so that we have had scoffers mocking the Bible and doing so based on the so called science of evolution and against the flood.  I truly believe Peter's message is that in 2000 years, there will be scoffers denying the flood, the creation and the return of the Lord.  Stephen J. Gould through his evolutionary background wrote a book on this very issue.  Coincidence or foreknowledge?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0609605410/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0609600761&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0ED9NHNV75JFY7SYZCV1

[kitkatz]

Science and religion have to agree in order for the world to make sense.

[Des]

Oh for goodness sake!  Really!!!  Who cares whether it was true or not.  Why does it matter.  It's just a story.
Well, that's my opinion anyway.

I care. It matters to me. The Bible is NOT just a story. Well, that is my opinion anyway.

 

[tyefly]

   We as humans  need something to look forward to....   we need to do something with our minds...... I am glad the bible can do that for some people....  there are many interpretations  and to me it does not matter who is right or wrong as long as it does something as it was intended.....  thats why we have language and books and thoughts and hopes and dreams.....   its what makes us sane..... makes up happy.... and makes us special.... Science is such a interpretation and the bible is another.... philosophy  is still another.......  and don't forget the independent opinion.....   Human behavior is fun to watch to explore and to deal with....  I also like to watch other animal behavior and note the differences..... life is fun...... it certainly does change over time....or does it....

    well thats my one cent worth......   

[Hanify]

I don't mean the whole thing is 'just a story' but bits of it are.  In my mind you just can't take the bible literally - or you wouldn't be shaving the hairs on your face, and you wouldn't plant certains crops in feilds.  I guess I just mean that my faith is my faith, and I don't need the bible to prove it to me.  2000 years is a dman long time, and there's no way I would expect people to live or think the same way I do in 2000 years.  It would make me or them wrong in any way.

[BigSky]

I don't mean the whole thing is 'just a story' but bits of it are.  In my mind you just can't take the bible literally - or you wouldn't be shaving the hairs on your face, and you wouldn't plant certains crops in feilds.  I guess I just mean that my faith is my faith, and I don't need the bible to prove it to me.  2000 years is a dman long time, and there's no way I would expect people to live or think the same way I do in 2000 years.  It would make me or them wrong in any way.

That is why there is such a thing as context.

[fc2821]

Albert Einstein once said that the definition of insanity is "doing the same thing over and over and expecting the different results."

That's all for me for me folks, I'm out of here.     

[angela515]

Science and Religion don't have to agree... for me they don't agree at all.

Science proves the way the Bible tells how the Earth was made to be false.

I believe 100% in science... however, I have my own beliefs ('faith') in what is next for us when death comes.

I believe there is something greater than we can even imagine beyond our sight and beyond our touch. Do I think there is one being called 'God'? I haven't dedicated a 100% yes or no to that question yet for myself. I do want to believe that when I die, my loved ones will be waiting for me and I want to believe that when I die, I can still watch over my children. I believe it more than I don't believe it, because what is life without hopes and thoughts of something even greater after this life. It makes life kinda depressing to think that all you have is this one life and then there is nothingness, at least to me.

I know I won't outlast the people I should outlast due to my medical problems. That fact right there makes me need/want to think about what's next once in awhile and really sit down and look inside my heart and find out what I truly believe in.

Either way, my opinions are my opinions and I wouldn't try to push them on anyone else or put down anyone else if their opinions are different. We all need to believe in what we want to, and what works for us.

I think went way off my point.. lol.. oh well, still all about the same stuff.

Angie <3

[fc2821]

 

[nursewratchet]

"Too much time on my hands...."  Oh, never mind, that goes on the Lyrics post

[dwcrawford]

 

[fc2821]

    Before I go, and this time I will be gone.  I just want to say, it isn't funny it is sad acually.  So much I'd like to "unload" in the "Is there a God" thread, but it goes against my princiapls to do so.  Besides if I did, it would just bog everything down in an agument over "doctrin and dogma" and what the scriptures say.
     I wanted to discuss things.  Seems some people are such fragle Christians that if the bible doesn't say it then it dosen't mater. I can not see the other side of the moon, there for it does not exit.  There is such much other tought to consider.  I got tired of pointing out that the historical record should also be considered and what is in the bible is not really involitable because it has been altered by translationa nd inteerpration durng translation.  That just because it is it in the bible doesn't mean it is the only thing to think about. What about non Christian views on moral subjects?