Is there a GOD? - ding! ding! ding ding geeeeet reaaaaaady toooooo rummmmble!!!!

[LightLizard]

for some, the earth may as well be flat. their god will keep them from falling off the edge, i'm sure.

[okarol]

I was walking with my neighbor one day and she was going on and on about all these horrible acts by people and crediting them to Satan. I said "Satan?? Don't you think that bad people making evil choices are responsible?" She said "No! Don't you believe in Satan?" I had to admit that while I have faith in God, I have none in Satan. My religious education was brief because when my dad died when I was 7years old, my mom quit the church. But I had strong, loving grandparents who had a deep faith in God which they shared with us kids. But Satan never came up.

[goofynina]

Good for you Okarol, i am glad you kept your faith, thank God for Grandparents huh  

[cris]

This post has longbeen started by EPOMAN but I believe, EPOMAN just serves the purpose, and I really wish EPOMAN comes by sometime, to tell us all ,that there is really GOD! EPOMAN is with HIM.

[goofynina]

Oh, Epoman is with Him, and *shakes fist* Epoman better be putting in a good word for me, or else    (I just miss that man) 

[oswald]

Science vs. God

 
"Let me explain the problem science has with Jesus Christ."   The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes sir," the student says

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a moment.   

 
"Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

The student remains silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

"Let's start again, young fella Is God good?"

"Er...yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?"

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

"Then where does Satan come from?"

The student : "From...God..."

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

"Yes."

"So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

Without allowing the student to answer, the professor continues: "Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?"

The student: "Yes."

"So who created them?"

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. "Who created them? There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized.

"Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice is confident: "Yes, professor, I do."

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"

"No sir. I've never seen Him"

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir, I have not."

"Have you ever actually felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?"

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"Yes."

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?"

"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

"Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of his own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"And is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain.

"You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

"What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it isn't darkness?"

"You're wrong again, sir.     Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can you explain how?"

 
"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains. "You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it."

"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"

 
"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do"

 
"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going    endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion , sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean."

The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into laughter.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelled the professor's brain?   No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.   So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess you'll have to take them on faith."

"Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?"

Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God . It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God.

God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

 
Pass this on if you love Jesus...I did!

[angela515]

 

[goofynina]

 

EXCELLENT READ,, Thank you so much for that Oswald, i needed that

[Sluff]

  got him..

[George Jung]

science v.s. god

tues/thur/sat  v.s.  mon/wed/fri/sun

[Bajanne]

Amen, Oswald, AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Roxy]

  Oswald that was great!! Thank you for posting it!! 

[JBLadyB]

I went to a Lutheran private school for the first 8 years.  I discovered that the church is a social institution made by people.  Behave badly during the week and get forgiven on Sunday.  Now, I believe in a "Higher Being", and all the religions on earth have often close in their beliefs.

THE TWO WOLVES
One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside people.

He said "My son, the battle is between two "wolves" inside us all.
one is  EVIL

It is anger, envy, jealosusy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, and superiority, and ego.

The other is GOOD.

It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his granfather.

"WHICH WOLF WINS?"

The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."



EDITED: Fixed Bold Type - okarol/moderator

[glitter]

THE TWO WOLVES
One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside people.

He said "My son, the battle is between two "wolves" inside us all.
one is  EVIL

It is anger, envy, jealosusy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, and superiority, and ego.

The other is GOOD.

It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his granfather.

"WHICH WOLF WINS?"

The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."

nice

[bolta72]

 

[George Jung]

A friend of mine sent me this reply after a discussion about "God's Will".  Just wanted to share for all to comment.  Personally I hear people write things off as God's will whenever they can't understand it (my disease in particular).


I would like to discuss the concept of "God's will".  The Bible says that God's will is “good, pleasing and perfect” (Romans 12:2).

Free Will
To begin, I would like to say that everything that God created was "good" (Genesis 1). God did not create evil. God gave us free will, and because we abused it, sickness and evil etc came into the world. ("You must not eat from the tree... or you will surely die" - Genesis 3)

Every detail of our life was known to God before we were born, but because we have free will, He did not map out what is to happen to us. If he did "program every second of our life" we would not have free will.



God's Will vs Our Circumstances
God does allow bad things to happen. We don't know why. But we do know that He can use anything for good. ("And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose. - Roman 8:28)

God does not will our circumstances, but He allows it and He has a plan to use it for HIS glory. And when we use our circumstances for the good of others, that glorifies God.

God does have a plan for our lives. ("For I know the plans I have for you, declared the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future” -Jeremiah 29:11)



Knowing God's Will
So how do we know God's will??

Well, how do I know each of you? By being close, communication. How many of you asked God what He wanted you to do today? If He wanted you to buy your house, if He wanted you to take a trip? Probably none of us, including myself. So how can you know what is God's will if you aren't in the habit of communicating with Him? How would you even recognize His will?

We know God's will by knowing God. By reading His word which He gave to us in order to let us know His will for our lives. (“Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light for my path” - Psalm 119:105)

We know God by trusting in Him. (“Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight” - Proverbs 3:5-6.

Trusting in God
When the Egyptians were pursuing the Israelites in the desert, the Israelites were dead-ended at the Red Sea (Exodus). Are we not at a road block at the moment? God parted the Red Sea to give them a way out. God can open up a new road for us at any time. Just trust and He will guide.


Accepting Adversity?
We don't just sit back and "accept" adversity, we continue praying and asking, trusting and believing. (Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened - Matthew 7:7-8)

You can have confidence that if you ask according to God's will, He will hear you (I John 5:14).

The bible sasys to "pray without ceasing". (1 Thessalonians 5:17 )


Trials
Trials and tribulations come with both a purpose and a reward. "Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. And let endurance have its perfect result, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing."(James 1:2-4).

Believe me, when I am in the midst of a trial, these words upset me, but we all know that trials make us stronger and more AWARE and appreciative of life etc.

So why is it, when something bad happens we blame it on God? Do we blame the good on Him also?

When He allows good into our lives it is okay. Should we not accept both the good and bad? ("Shall we indeed accept good from God and not accept adversity?"  ( Job 2:10)

God Allows Adversity So We Will Turn to Him
When life is good, we (actually, speaking for myself) tend to forget about God. So maybe God allows trial into our life to get our attention. So we will seek Him and find Him (Jeremiah 29:13)

[Aldente]

  Personally I hear people write things off as God's will whenever they can't understand it (my disease in particular).

I agree with you George.  "If I can't explain it God must be involved" is a common mindset.  One of my favorites is when people praise God for a sunny day and blame Mother Nature when it rains.  It gets more interesting when people get a sunny day for their picnic and the farmer is in the middle of a drought.

It's always a slippery slope when people selectively pick scripture segments to prove their point as was the case with your friend's comments.  In my opinion there are a number of flawed arguments in your friend's diatribe.  But in the infamous words of Linus, "There are three things I have learned never to discuss with people (in public) : religion, politics, and the Great Pumpkin." ( italics my words) 

 

[okarol]

 

[Sluff]

 

[kitkatz]

Bumping up with a cartoon!

[Wenchie58]

Interesting thread...hadn't seen it before.

My 

Yes, there is a God...and Yes all prayers are answered.

Sometimes...the answer is NO.

[paris]

This is my favorite thread by Epoman    He loved to start the discussion and then sit back and watch commotion he caused.

[hyperlite]

haha this thread brings back memories

[glitter]

this is a great discussion, but you know what this thread reminds me of? Ohiobuckeye Janet Evans...her unflagging faith was a true testament to her religion...even though our beliefs are on opposite ends of the spectrum- I still find there to be something in her that I admire- I hope she is happy and at peace wherever she ended up 

 and it would nice to hear some more opinions of course.....

[willowtreewren]

I would rather be judged by those who know me and the good works I do.

I truly believe in life before death.

It makes me sad that those who don't know me think that I must be a bad person since I live a full and happy life without a belief in any god. I'm not evil or immoral. But many prejudge me as a secular humanist. I am a celebrant and perform secular marriages and funerals for others who live as I do.

I only believe in one fewer god than most of the rest of society. Nobody thinks it is absurd not to believe in Zeus or Thor. I don't believe in them either.

I sport a bumper sticker on my car that says:

The world is my country. To do good is my religion. ~ Thomas Paine

Aleta