Is there a GOD? - ding! ding! ding ding geeeeet reaaaaaady toooooo rummmmble!!!!

[tyefly]

                    

[fc2821]

 

[del]

   still watching and listenng but not getting in on the discussion anymore!!

[Stoday]

Here in America, most do not accept evolution as fact much to the chagrin of folks that try to speak otherwise.  Here on IHD, those that believe in a God far outweigh those that don't 72% to 24%. 

In the U.S., only 14 percent of adults thought that evolution was "definitely true," while about a third firmly rejected the idea.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/08/060810-evolution.html

I must say, I have a real problem understanding where Hemodoc gets his numbers from. Maybe I just can't do sums.

In the poll for this thread I count 64% as believing in God, 20% believe thare's no god and 16% are not sure/undecided.

I go to the national geographic link which shows the USA among 34 countries in a chart. For the USA, 40% say evolution is true, 40% say it's not and 20% are not sure.

[paris]

Here in America, most do not accept evolution as fact much to the chagrin of folks that try to speak otherwise.  Here on IHD, those that believe in a God far outweigh those that don't 72% to 24%. 

IHD has 3974 members.  Out of that number 123 voted in this poll.  So, of those who voted, 72% said yes, they believe in God.   Wonder what the other 3800 members think?     

Back to my corner!

[willowtreewren]

If you look at the poll at the top of the page you will see that Hemodoc used the number of votes as the percentage. The percentage of folks who voted who said that they believe in god is just under 60%. There is another 5% who answered that there is a god and dialysis is hell.

The percentage of folks who said that they do not believe in god is just under 20%. The undecided/not sure folks are about 16%.

Stoday, I looked at the graph form the National Geographic as well. It appears that the text accompanying the chart has the figure for those who accept evolution as true. The chart shows 41%, but the text says 14%. It looks like the chart reports aabout 38% of Americans do not accept the theory of evolution.

I'm not debating, just clarifying the confusion over the numbers. I should have caught that earlier.

[rocker]

Here in America, most do not accept evolution as fact much to the chagrin of folks that try to speak otherwise.  Here on IHD, those that believe in a God far outweigh those that don't 72% to 24%. 

In the U.S., only 14 percent of adults thought that evolution was "definitely true," while about a third firmly rejected the idea.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/08/060810-evolution.html

I must say, I have a real problem understanding where Hemodoc gets his numbers from. Maybe I just can't do sums.

In the poll for this thread I count 64% as believing in God, 20% believe thare's no god and 16% are not sure/undecided.

This is what I get for the poll results:
Yes, Of course. Duh!     - 72 (58.5%)
Nope, when you're dead, you're dead.    - 24 (19.5%)
Not sure, with all the suffering in the world.    - 9 (7.3%)
Yes of course and dialysis is HELL and we are already dead.    - 7 (5.7%)
Undecided.    - 11 (8.9%)

I think Peter mistook the actual number of votes for the percentage.

72% + 24% is 96%, not 100%.

I go to the national geographic link which shows the USA among 34 countries in a chart. For the USA, 40% say evolution is true, 40% say it's not and 20% are not sure.

Peter's quote was pasted from the article.  Polls usually have multiple answers to a question, not "true" or "false".  Usually the answers are things like "definitely true", "probably true", "not sure", "probably not true", etc.  For the graphs, they will combine answers ("definitely true" and "probably true" will be lumped into "true").

[dwcrawford]

Wonder if the polls really say that 4 percent of the posters have driven another 92 percent to the point where they don't reallly give a damn and another 4 percent just roll their eyes   ... but I have to look in every now and then just to see if everyone is still on TOPIC.   

[Hemodoc]

If you look at the poll at the top of the page you will see that Hemodoc used the number of votes as the percentage. The percentage of folks who voted who said that they believe in god is just under 60%. There is another 5% who answered that there is a god and dialysis is hell.

The percentage of folks who said that they do not believe in god is just under 20%. The undecided/not sure folks are about 16%.

Stoday, I looked at the graph form the National Geographic as well. It appears that the text accompanying the chart has the figure for those who accept evolution as true. The chart shows 41%, but the text says 14%. It looks like the chart reports aabout 38% of Americans do not accept the theory of evolution.

I'm not debating, just clarifying the confusion over the numbers. I should have caught that earlier.

Here in America, most do not accept evolution as fact much to the chagrin of folks that try to speak otherwise.  Here on IHD, those that believe in a God far outweigh those that don't 72% to 24%. 

IHD has 3974 members.  Out of that number 123 voted in this poll.  So, of those who voted, 72% said yes, they believe in God.   Wonder what the other 3800 members think?     

Back to my corner!

If you look at the poll at the top of the page you will see that Hemodoc used the number of votes as the percentage. The percentage of folks who voted who said that they believe in god is just under 60%. There is another 5% who answered that there is a god and dialysis is hell.

The percentage of folks who said that they do not believe in god is just under 20%. The undecided/not sure folks are about 16%.

Stoday, I looked at the graph form the National Geographic as well. It appears that the text accompanying the chart has the figure for those who accept evolution as true. The chart shows 41%, but the text says 14%. It looks like the chart reports aabout 38% of Americans do not accept the theory of evolution.

I'm not debating, just clarifying the confusion over the numbers. I should have caught that earlier.

Dear Aleta, et al, I am not debating either, but to clarify the reason that I put the quotes from the NatGeo article and the poll here on this thread was to counter the many comments that stated that most folks believe in evolution.  Nothing more nothing less.  So, I really wouldn't spend so much time on such a trivial issue.  Polls in America consistently show that a majority of folks depending on the poll do not believe in the theory of evolution.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Poll-Most-Americans-Dont-Believe-Evolution

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/02/12/1791814.aspx

http://www.gallup.com/poll/21811/american-beliefs-evolution-vs-bibles-explanation-human-origins.aspx

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/22/opinion/polls/main657083.shtml

So, pick your poll of choice, it has been a consistent finding for years that most evolutionists find quite shocking, but it is true.  My point, many in your vocal minority have loudly tried to shut down the majority view here on IHD through various tactics which ignore the actual facts and data.  This is just one small example of what you get into when you challenge the minority view.  Not that I will go forth with any more debate with the vocal minority, but it is quite amusing to see such debate over such a minor point of contention that is actually not in contention.  Polls show that the most Americans do not accept the theory of evolution.

[willowtreewren]

I maintain that polls of how many support a view have nothing to do with whether that view is correct.

Six hundred years ago nearly everyone thought the Earth was flat. That did not make it so. Polls are irrelevant to the debate. BUT, if looking at the National Geographic poll, if you want to debate numbers, the percentage of folks who accept the theory of evolution in the US is 41% vs. 38% who don't. And the US is nearly at the bottom of the barrel in the 34 countries surveyed.

[monrein]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/19/world/middleeast/19syria.html


I'd like to contribute this article to the discussion since for me it represents a most admirable goal, that of seeking mutual respect among people who may hold different beliefs but who are nonetheless engaged in the same quest.  I cannot at all understand why any one set of beliefs MUST hold sway over the others.  I am aware of the proselytizing mission inherent in some belief systems but I find it hard to believe that God, if indeed God does exist, would have created such a diverse world with such diverse peoples but only one, single, fairly narrow path to "salvation". 

[dwcrawford]

Gosh Gail, You're so smart... (for a girl).   Let's rumble!

[Pam]

I was not raised in a religious setting. I do believe in God and the power of prayer. My parents raised 6 kids and the number one thing that was stressed to us. was to live by the "Golden Rule"  that has worked well for me.
Pam

[rocker]

Dear Aleta, et al, I am not debating either, but to clarify the reason that I put the quotes from the NatGeo article and the poll here on this thread was to counter the many comments that stated that most folks believe in evolution.

Could you link to those comments?  I do recall commenting that most people who believe in God do not see a conflict between having a supreme being and seeing evolution as an explanation for life on earth.

So, pick your poll of choice, it has been a consistent finding for years that most evolutionists find quite shocking, but it is true.

I don't know what an "evolutionist" is, but it doesn't shock me a bit.  Most people don't "believe in" quantum mechanics, either - that doesn't actually say anything about the truth of quantum mechanics, as Aleta has pointed out.

  My point, many in your vocal minority have loudly tried to shut down the majority view here on IHD through various tactics which ignore the actual facts and data.

Earlier I asked you to repost the posts where you felt you were "mocked and ridiculed" by a group of people, I didn't see that list if you posted it.  Again, I would ask you to post examples of where people have tried to "loudly shut down" your posts.  Has someone tried to get you banned?

Not that I will go forth with any more debate with the vocal minority

You have said this several times now.

[monrein]

Gosh Gail, You're so smart... (for a girl).   Let's rumble!

Gosh Gail, You're so smart... (for a girl).   Let's rumble!

  Oh dear, Dan, did I neglect to tell you that in "real" life I'm a  transgendered short guy from Rumbletown?   

[rocker]

Gosh Gail, You're so smart... (for a girl).   Let's rumble!

Gosh Gail, You're so smart... (for a girl).   Let's rumble!

  Oh dear, Dan, did I neglect to tell you that in "real" life I'm a  transgendered short guy from Rumbletown?   

Uh oh....Dan's stepped in it now...

Get the popcorn!  Sunday, SUNday, SUNDAY!!!!!

[cariad]

So, pick your poll of choice, it has been a consistent finding for years that most evolutionists find quite shocking, but it is true.  My point, many in your vocal minority have loudly tried to shut down the majority view here on IHD through various tactics which ignore the actual facts and data.  This is just one small example of what you get into when you challenge the minority view.  Not that I will go forth with any more debate with the vocal minority, but it is quite amusing to see such debate over such a minor point of contention that is actually not in contention.  Polls show that the most Americans do not accept the theory of evolution.

As Aleta and rocker have pointed out, if you look at the National Geographic Poll, about 40% believe in evolutionary theory and about the same number do not. How does that make those that trust in the science of evolution the "vocal minority"? Those who reject evolution are every bit as much a minority in this country. The IHD poll, in addition to being unscientific, does not even mention the word evolution. As has been stated over and over and over again, it is possible to agree with the science of evolution and believe in God. That poll, even if it were a proper random sample of IHD readers (I never voted in the poll, so my views are not being counted in those numbers) tells us nothing about how the majority on IHD feel toward evolution. I truly resent the insinuation that you are being bullied by some fringe group. Your last sentence is absolutely false. Not sure means not sure, not what you want it to mean, which is that they somehow count as people who do not believe in evolution.

[Hemodoc]

Once again, all have missed the point.  Evolution is not universally accepted especially here in America.  Creation in many polls is the majority view despite what many have stated to the contrary on this thread.  I have not used this as proof of anything but to state that perhaps the majority view deserves the right to be heard.

If evolution is so overwhelmingly proven why is it not accepted?  150 years after Darwin, the issues of where did life come from, how did life happen, how was the universe formed, where did all of the information come from and the origin of all the amazing diversity of life are all unsettled issues.  Is it Darwinian gradualism, is it punctuated equilibrium, is it the neutral theory.  I have looked at all of these theories critically with my extensive science background and it does not add up in my opinion, nor that of the majority of Americans.  This is not an issue such as is the world flat, which by the way the Bible stated it is a circle 700 years BC.  Serious investigators have looked at the evidence for or against evolution and not have been convinced by the evidence by the shear complexity of the steps needed to get from point A to point B with evolution.

Once again, I readily concede that on this thread, mine is the minority view, but it does deserve to be respectfully heard and represented accurately.  Not sure what type of real debate can occur if just stating the fact of evolution polls in America brings such derision. But it is quite amusing none the less.

[willowtreewren]

Not sure what type of real debate can occur if just stating the fact of evolution polls in America brings such derision.

I am truly confused by this statement.

[monrein]

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/18/must-there-be-a-bottom-line/

I found this article in today's NYT to be quite interesting and germane to the discussion on this thread. 

[del]

If everyone lived by The Golden Rule - Do onto others as you would want them to do onto you- the world would be a much nicer place to live!!

[fc2821]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/19/world/middleeast/19syria.html


I'd like to contribute this article to the discussion since for me it represents a most admirable goal, that of seeking mutual respect among people who may hold different beliefs but who are nonetheless engaged in the same quest.  I cannot at all understand why any one set of beliefs MUST hold sway over the others.  I am aware of the proselytizing mission inherent in some belief systems but I find it hard to believe that God, if indeed God does exist, would have created such a diverse world with such diverse peoples but only one, single, fairly narrow path to "salvation".

   What I have pointing out since joined battle here.

  Hemodoc, you say the majority of the people beleive "in creationism". Ah, which version? There are as many views of that as there are of God. I beleive in a supreme being who created everything in this universe (you know physics tells us there could be others) but I also believe that evolution is one of the mechanisms used to "run" this universe.  Oh, rock it was me who said something like this and started that mess. Sorry others got the blame.
   

If everyone lived by The Golden Rule - Do onto others as you would want them to do onto you- the world would be a much nicer place to live!!

 
    A good thing to remeber. Play nice,everyone.  And let that be my final comment from dialysis today. And, for thosekeeping score, the patients are winning in 9 minutes of regulatin. If your lost, you didn't read the other thread.

[Hemodoc]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/19/world/middleeast/19syria.html


I'd like to contribute this article to the discussion since for me it represents a most admirable goal, that of seeking mutual respect among people who may hold different beliefs but who are nonetheless engaged in the same quest.  I cannot at all understand why any one set of beliefs MUST hold sway over the others.  I am aware of the proselytizing mission inherent in some belief systems but I find it hard to believe that God, if indeed God does exist, would have created such a diverse world with such diverse peoples but only one, single, fairly narrow path to "salvation".

   What I have pointing out since joined battle here.

  Hemodoc, you say the majority of the people beleive "in creationism". Ah, which version? There are as many views of that as there are of God. I beleive in a supreme being who created everything in this universe (you know physics tells us there could be others) but I also believe that evolution is one of the mechanisms used to "run" this universe.  Oh, rock it was me who said something like this and started that mess. Sorry others got the blame.
   

If everyone lived by The Golden Rule - Do onto others as you would want them to do onto you- the world would be a much nicer place to live!!

 
    A good thing to remeber. Play nice,everyone.  And let that be my final comment from dialysis today. And, for thosekeeping score, the patients are winning in 9 minutes of regulatin. If your lost, you didn't read the other thread.

Good question Rob,

Here is a 2007 Harris poll showing that 72% believe in Jesus as God:

Poll finds more Americans believe in devil than Darwin

It is the latest survey to highlight America's deep level of religiosity, a cultural trait that sets it apart from much of the developed world.

It also helps explain many of its political battles which Europeans find bewildering, such as efforts to have "Intelligent Design" theory -- which holds life is too complex to have evolved by chance -- taught in schools alongside evolution.

The poll of 2,455 U.S. adults from Nov 7 to 13 found that 82 percent of those surveyed believed in God, a figure unchanged since the question was asked in 2005.

It further found that 79 percent believed in miracles, 75 percent in heaven, while 72 percent believed that Jesus is God or the Son of God. Belief in hell and the devil was expressed by 62 percent.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKN2922875820071129

[del]

But people can believe in both God (higher power) and evolution.  They can go hand in hand!!

[monrein]

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/18/must-there-be-a-bottom-line/

I found this article in today's NYT to be quite interesting and germane to the discussion on this thread.