Cramping!!

[KT0930]

I saw the neph yesterday, and unfortunately, things are not going well. My blood pressure has been up the last two months or so, so he started me on Diazapam (is that right??). My appetite, which was small to begin with, has all but disappeared over the last couple of weeks, and my Kt/V was just barely in the ok range last time it was checked (2.10). So he told me to go from four fills of 2000 with 1.5% to three 2500's and my final (I'm full during the day) is to stay at 2000 with 2.5%. Last night I used 1.5 because that's what was already on the heater.

Problem is, I had cramps in my legs last night for the first time since I got my potassium up into the acceptable range. They woke me up twice, then this morning while I was disconnecting and checking my b/p, as soon as I tried to sit with my legs crossed or moved them in anyway closer to my body, I got really painful cramps again.  Is it due to the higher amounts of my fills and possibly pulling off more fluid, or can the b/p med cause this? If it's the pulling off of more fluid, what's going to happen when I use the 2.5%'s like he wants me too?? Of course it doesn't help my mood that this morning my blood pressure was 101/50, so I'm having a terrible time waking up and getting alert.

[goofynina]

Oh girlfriend, you are talking to the queen of cramping and aint they a bitch!!!    I get them often and i just sit at the end of the bed and put my feet flat on the ground and that usually takes them away.  I am currently using 2 - 2.5% and 1 - 4.25% because of the amount of fluid i drink, i dwell 3,000 5 times on the cycler and i have one manual drain of 3,000 2 hours after my therapy ends.  Because of the higher solution and it taking more fluid off, i would try and drink a little more.  I think soda water helps because of the quinine in it, good luck this is just my opinion, i hope you find what works for YOU,  my Kt/V was not great either but because of my "large body mass" it is to be expected (so they say)  but what matters is that you feel good, and i think i feel as good as i am gonna get  

[MooseMom]

I am on cyclosporine as part of my pre-dialysis treatment, and I read that cyclosporine leeches magnesium out of your system, and a lack of magnesium can certainly cause muscle cramping.  Not only that, but most foods high in magnesium are also high in phosphorus and/or potassium, so we can't get magnesium from our diets.  I spoke to my doctor about adding a magnesium supplement to my ever growing list of meds/supplements, and he gave me the OK.  Perhaps you could mention this to your neph...just a thought.

[KT0930]

It's probably not magnesium, because it started the same night that I started the higher volume of fills and the BP meds. Besides, my phosphorous was very low (2. a month ago, and I had no problems, and now it's slightly high (5., so my magnesium is probably ok for now.

As for drinking more, I already have a glass of ice water with me almost all the time, except at lunch when I drink Sprite. Part of the problem, I believe, is that I still urinate, so I don't need that much fluid taken off by dialysis, just toxins.

[KICKSTART]

I get cramps no matter what . If i just move a certain way or cough to much or grip a cup tightly. You just have to treat them like normal cramp .. either move about or rubbing the area helps them go !

[Redbomb]

Goofy,

I think that it's Tonic water that has the quinine and not soda water (though I'm not 100% sure). 

[MyssAnne]

Standing on your feet helps, I've noticed if I can push my feet against something, the foot of the bed, maybe, that seems to help somewhat as well.  Any more, it is cool to observe, to see the toes or fingers just move by themselves. I know, it's sick.  Then I start trying to get the cramp worked out.

[KT0930]

Myss, I'm usually in too much pain to notice how cool it looks. LOL!

Anyway, now my problem is extremely low b/p. I missed yesterday and today at work because of it. Yesterday it got down to 78/62, and stayed around that range all day. Today it's up to 90/70, but no matter how much water I drink or Ruffles I eat, it just won't go any higher.

I called the doc yesterday when I couldn't get out of bed (couldn't wake up enough to call until 10:30), and the nurse told me to only use one bag of 2.5%, and to cut the b/p med dose in half. Well, I used only the one 2.5 as she suggested, but seeing as my b/p was still extremely low at bed time, I didn't take any of the medicine, and it's STILL this low. I'm hoping the systolic will be over 100 tomorrow and I can go back to work, as this is the busy time of the month for me, and I really don't need to be sitting on my butt at home.

Ok, I'll stop ranting now, didn't mean for it to turn into that, sorry.

[MyssAnne]

Wowsers. THAT is low. I've been low, but not that low! KT, try pop or coffee, whichever you prefer, I've heard that caffeine will raise your blood pressure.

[KT0930]

My b/p was still hanging out around the 90/70 range this morning, but since my husband didn't work today, he drove me to my office (God bless him!). I've been drinking more water, and I had Chinese food for dinner last night and lunch today, and I'm finally creeping up to 100/70. I spoke to another nurse at the doc's office b/c the one I spoke to before was off today, and she told me to keep not taking the b/p meds. If it gets back up to where it was before (130/100), then I should try a half a pill and see how that works...though this weekend is my son's birthday, and we have things planned both days, so I don't need it to knock me down again. Damn I hate being sick!!!

[MyssAnne]

Yup. Being sick sucks. It is not glamorous or fun. OR useful. I'm sure glad your bp is creepig up again. Good ole Chinese food!!!   If that's what works for you, eat more of it this week, keep the bp up for this weekend!! And take pictures of your son's birthday party! How old will he be?

[goofynina]

I find when i eat chinese food, i do not get good drains, my body tries to retain the fluid from all the salt i had eaten 

[KT0930]

He's gonna be 9 (damn, am I that old??). For his "party" we're taking him and his buddy to Dave & Buster's, which is kind of like a Chuck E Cheese for adults and older kids. Plus there's bowling in addition to the video games.

Susie, my last fill every morning is 2000, and my first drain last night was around 2600, then I was awake for my next drain, as well, and with a fill of 2500, my drain was nearly 2900...and I still pee!!! I don't think Chinese food does the same thing to me!

[MyssAnne]

It is so odd how we are all so different, yet so same! For me, Chinese food is the route to the bathroom....for both ends!!! For some reason I just cannot tolerate it. I love it, but... So when my bp is too low, I eat paydays. Or drink coffee/dr. pepper. Any excuse for a dr. pepper.....

[KT0930]

Myss,

If I weren't already itching from letting my phosphorous get a teeny bit high - 5.8 - I'd probably go for a Coke...however, I'd pay for it for at least a month, the itching's already bad enough.

[MyssAnne]

Oh I know. I hate the itchies. Thank goodness for benadryl. It's a wonder drug for the itchies!

[KT0930]

The drama continues. My b/p was fine on Friday (100/80 or so), but then over the weekend it started going down again and this morning it was something like 84/70. I called the neph's office, and the nurse got in touch with the neph about it. He wants me to go back to using all 1.5% and see how I do, but he also wants me to get an echocardiogram to make sure there's nothing wrong.

I've been panicking all afternoon over this. I guess one thing that worries me is just the other day I was reading the thread in the General Discussion section that Epoman started titled "Low Blood Pressure, Damn It!" (http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=1457.0), and I happened to notice he died about six months after he started it. I know I'm probably working myself up over nothing, but I can't help but worry. And now I have a week to worry!!!

Sorry, gotta run, dinner's ready, but I know you all won't tell me "Don't worry, it's probably nothing", as some here at home are doing...let me worry, dammit! Thanks guys!!

[paris]

You said it perfectly----LET ME WORRY  Good thing is we all understand and will tell you to go ahead and worry.  If we don't worry about ourselves ---who will?   Listen to your body. I hope the numbers go up and you start feeling better.

[goofynina]

KT0930,  Epoman caught an incurable virus called Sepus, that is what took him, not the low blood pressure, please try not to worry (i know it's easier said than done)  Go get that test done so you can relax a bit, remember, we are here for you always 

[KT0930]

Thanks, ladies. I *know* he died from a virus, it was just one of the many things my brain decided not to remind me of earlier today when I was in panic mode. I guess part of what's really gotten to me about this is I've always (since I was a teenager, anyway) kind of figured this kidney stuff is what's going to eventually kill me, so I feel like I've been blindsided by this heart thing. I lived with high blood pressure for years, and no one has ever felt the need to do any kind of tests because of it, it's always just been accepted as part of my medical profile. So now it's low for less than a month and it's change this, and do that, and have this test done. Yeah, I want to feel better and sure, I want to know what's going on, but to go from blood pressure problems being essentially ignored to requiring tests and special visits to the doctor, I can't help but think there's something to really worry about.

Sorry if I'm rambling, it just feels good to let this all out. I have a feeling I'll be doing a lot of that over the next week or so. Thanks for providing a safe place to do it!

[LightLizard]

when my b/p dropped low and my weight dropped, i was advised to drink some 'salty broth.' i found that it helped with the cramping, and my b/p too.
for the last few nights though, i've had severe cramping in my lower legs. i had them before, but these were the worst. i couldn't help but scream, even.
i used 1- 2.5,(5 litres) 1- 1.5 (5 litres) a 1.5 (3 litres) and a 7.5 (2.5 lilres) because my weight was starting to come up a bit. last night, i used all 1.5's, as well as the 7.5 to finish. still, the cramping got me, and my weight is not coming down, either.
i should probably recognise that my dry weight is increasing, i have been eating more meat, lately.
but i'm thinking of asking my neph for some muscle relaxants.
as for the itching, i finally got it under control with a prescription of 'Basilgel' (alunminum hydrochloride).
its still 'there' - but not nearly as intense or consistent as it was before.

[LightLizard]

another thing to be aware of is that dialysis does not only help remove toxins and excess fluid, but it also, at the same time, removes a lot of nutrients, protien, minerals and such as well. this could also lead to cramping, one would think...this is one of the reasons that diet is so important for us.

[KT0930]

My albumin and iron are always well above the minimum that my clinic sets, so that wasn't the issue. For me the cramping is usually due to either potassium or calcium. Potassium is finally under control (4.5 as of last week), and calcium is a bit high, but that's because PTH is low. Anyway, the cramping has subsided and barely happens anymore. Blood pressure is still pretty low, but I had my echo yesterday, and am seeing the neph today about the results. Wish me luck!

[The Wife]

Last night I was unable to fall asleep due to my aching sciatic.  (I've had a spinal fusion and have some arthritis.)  Then, just as I was beginning to fall asleep, I heard moaning from LL.  Leg cramps again.  It was really bad last night and the past week has been rough.  He's also been getting cramps in his hands.  Anyway, he slept for a total of about an hour and only did so, because he sat up.  He even cramped when he stood and tried to walk around. 

We know about changing from 7.5 to 2.5 and increasing fluids but I'm at a loss for what do to help him through this.  I am really careful with what type of food I buy and cook, read up on phosphorus and all that stuff, but nothing seems to be working.  He's talked to the nurse at the Kidney Care Clinic, I've purchased Tonic Water, we're having a hard time keeping his blood pressure down but he takes the medication they told him to, etc. 

I just don't know what to do.  Can anyone help me to help him?

I tell you, these cramps that all of you experience sure puts a different perspective on my aching sciatic. 

[The Wife]

So...I called the nurse at the Kidney Care Clinic.  They want him to go in for blood tests tomorrow.  His potassium is in the low normal and we're waiting for a prescription for the stuff that's in tonic water.  Starts with a Q.  I've given him more high potassium foods as recommended by the nurse and it'll be another night with 2.5 as his last bag.  Hopefully, they can get this under control.

Great to hear you've got the cramping under control KT0930.  Yeah!

Thanks for the space and sharing your experiences with cramping.  I'm learning a lot!