How bad did it use to be?

[Bill Peckham]

I was at a Power Point presentation yesterday - the history and the future of dialysis. Dr. Ahmad showed a picture of two forearms, lying in opposition (lying next to one another head to toe). There was a line coming straight from a forearm access of one guy (both forearms looked to belong to men) directly to the forearm access of another guy.

It was explained that one guy had liver failure and the other had kidney failure so they were basically circulating the blood between the two people. One ran the blood through his healthy liver while the other ran the blood through his healthy kidneys! The guy who thought this approach up was in the room. It did not work.

For the future Dr. Ahmad talked about a dialysis pill - just like that Star Trek episode. I guess Dr. Friedman has been pitching the idea for decades but this is the first time I heard about it - you'd use your gut as the kidney and take a pill of genetically modified bacteria that would live in your gut turning the waste normally handled by the kidney into waste that you'd poop out. Crazy. You'd have to deal with the water but I guess diarrhea would be better than dialysis.

[Sluff]

ewww...no thanks Dr Ahmad.

[Danally]

Is this for real?

[Bill Peckham]

Yup I was in a room with people who started the Northwest Kidney Centers. One person had been on the "nameless committee" as he called it - the one who selected people for treatment. The pill of genetically engineered bacteria is a new idea to me but I was in a group of Nephrologists after and they said it was first proposed twenty years ago.

[goofynina]

Oh no no no, no diarrhea for me thank you, i'll stick to my dialysis for a little while longer 

[Bill Peckham]

What do you think about the idea of having your own personal liver patient? To me that spoke to the desperation of the moment, the desperation felt by the docs involved and some "out of the box" thinking.

[Joe Paul]

Trail and error is about the only way to find out what works and doesn't work.

[bolta72]

Interesting, What will they think of next?

[Danally]

Yup I was in a room with people who started the Northwest Kidney Centers. One person had been on the "nameless committee" as he called it - the one who selected people for treatment. The pill of genetically engineered bacteria is a new idea to me but I was in a group of Nephrologists after and they said it was first proposed twenty years ago.

My question is do people really do this??

[stauffenberg]

They already use a primitive form of dialysis in rural China which requires the patient to ingest herbs causing massive diarrhea.  This has the effect of removing many of the same toxins as dialysis does, though it is quite inefficient.  I discussed this form of treatment with my nephrologist many years ago when I first started dialysis.  He had read about it, but dismissed it as an alternative by remarking, "Who could stand living like that?"  I felt like telling him, "Yeah, but who can stand living like a dialysis patient in the modern, Western world either?"

When I think of the future of medicine, I am sure that a century from now, when there is no more dialysis, perhaps because new kidneys can easily be grown in the patient with stem cell transplants, students of the history of medicine will simply not be able to believe how dialysis patients managed to cope with the type of existence they were expected to lead.  It will probably be the topic of many dissertations in the History of Medicine to try to imagine what life was like for us and how we endured it.  No doubt all of their speculations will be wrong!

[Zach]

It will probably be the topic of many dissertations in the History of Medicine to try to imagine what life was like for us and how we endured it.  No doubt all of their speculations will be wrong!

Not if IHD is still in cyberspace!
 

[livecam]

For the future Dr. Ahmad talked about a dialysis pill - just like that Star Trek episode. I guess Dr. Friedman has been pitching the idea for decades but this is the first time I heard about it - you'd use your gut as the kidney and take a pill of genetically modified bacteria that would live in your gut turning the waste normally handled by the kidney into waste that you'd poop out.

Maybe not so far fetched.  I posted something about this in another area of the site last year.

http://www.kibowbiotech.com/

[meadowlandsnj]

When I think of the future of medicine, I am sure that a century from now, when there is no more dialysis, perhaps because new kidneys can easily be grown in the patient with stem cell transplants, students of the history of medicine will simply not be able to believe how dialysis patients managed to cope with the type of existence they were expected to lead.  It will probably be the topic of many dissertations in the History of Medicine to try to imagine what life was like for us and how we endured it.  No doubt all of their speculations will be wrong!

When I think about how in twenty or so years how many people are going to need dialysis because of the obesity and diabetes epidemic in this country alone (USA) it boggles my mind.  I read a statictis somewhere of how many more people on dialysis there are going to be and it's a LOT!  I bet the stockholders of Davita and all of them are licking their chops at this.  Lots of new patients to end up in their centers.  Lots of money to be made.   
There has to be a better way. 

Donna

[tweetykiss]

I think my husband can handle diarhea better than dialysis.....

[boxman55]

hmmmm diarrhea or dialysis nice choice








EDITED:Fixed smiley errors-kitkatz,moderator

[tweetykiss]

hmmmm diarrhea or dialysis nice choice

You are funny......now first time I have laughed in a while......







EDITED:Fixed smiley errors in quote tag-kitkatz,moderator

[keefer51]

I find it facinating that they even thought of that. I mean twenty years from now dialysis may be a thing of the past. I doubt it the money that is made is mind boggleing. I have lived over fifty years and we still don't have a cure for cancer or other chronic diseases. And where are the freaking cars that fly. You know the ones they showed us on tv and magazines?? In the fifteen or more years that i have been on dialysis or had a transplant there have been a few changes. But one thing is constant we need a mashine and we need to get stuck. Pd is better there's no pain. I entertain the thought that the powers to be can think of a pill. But we all no where the money is. They couldn't control us anymore with a pill. But i have a idea for these people how about a way not for it to be so painful with us that have to endure hemo. How about a way to sleep through the four hours and wake up when your time is up. I have'nt seen any big changes except for the money they get for keeping us alive. Nor do i forsee any.

[tweetykiss]

Keefer,

I am actually hoping maybe stem cell research will make dialysis not be neccessary anymore but we have to keep certain people out of the White House for that...(won't go into the political arena on this thread)....or I am hoping that there will be meds that can reverse kidney damage.....I mean there was a time when they had no birth control pills and at one time AIDs patiend died after such a short time and cancer patients also died after a short time but now cancer patients survive for years......

I hope what I mention were not pipe dreams.......

[meadowlandsnj]

I find it facinating that they even thought of that. I mean twenty years from now dialysis may be a thing of the past. I doubt it the money that is made is mind boggleing. I have lived over fifty years and we still don't have a cure for cancer or other chronic diseases.

I know I'll sound cynical but I really believe certain diseases aren't cured yet is because cancer, diabetes and other diseases make the pharm companies loads of money.  All the companies that make money off of sick people will go out of business if they cured these diseases.   

Donna

[keefer51]

I agree with you meadowlandsnj the money they make off of us is sad. All of these diseases with no cure. They like to excite us with little blurbs on the news or in magazines about some new drug that will cure all only to put on those daytime ads for lawyers. Yes tweetykiss i agree with you on both counts. Stem cell research is moving in the right direction. Perhaps something like that would help. Now we only have to convince them that they will make more money that way!!