Why We Need Armed Flight Attendants Who Are Prepared To Shoot To Kill

[Paul]

On a flight back from Russia, a flight attendant sees a suspicious looking couple on board, so she reports it to the Captain immediately. “Sir, I think we have a case of human trafficking! There is a very pretty and quiet female passenger on board, who looks quite frightened, and the man she is with, is a fat, sweaty old slob who looks like a sexual deviant!” The captain responds, “You must be new here. This is Air Force One.”

[Jean]

OMG, for a nono second, I actually agreed with you. Tsk,tsk.

[Charlie B53]

On a more serious note.

I whole heartedly agree that flight crews should be allowed to carry concealed once trained well enough.

Pretty much the same for mass transit, schools, anywhere the possibility exists for mass attack.


Long ago, as in Old West times, many people openly carried.  Seldom was there any incident.


Two Cities in the U.S. have laws allowing all able-bodied citizens to carry.  You sure don't see anything on the news about crime in those Cities.

[Jean]

I agree with you Charlie.

[MooseMom]

I disagree wholeheartedly that flight crews should be able to open carry or even concealed carry on flights for the following reasons:

1.  Have you booked an airplane ticket lately?  If so, have you seen how much you are charged for "9/11" fees and other security fees?  We are paying millions of dollars for airport and airline security.  We shouldn't HAVE to worry about security once we go through 10,000 levels of security before you even sit down on the damn plane.

2.  We have federal air marshals for a reason.  We're all already paying for that.

3.  Again, have you been on a flight lately?  All flights are absolutely packed, and the flight crews already have too much to do.  I don't want jet lagged crews brandishing guns around, thank you very much.  Besides, what are you going to do about international flights with US origin/transit/final destination?

4.  Again, have you been on a flight lately?  Can you just imagine what carnage would ensue if people start shooting on a plane?  That's just crazy talk.  There is a REASON that firearms are not allowed on planes.  I refuse to sacrifice MY SAFETY for the sake of anyone else's gun fetish.

OK, Charlie, I'll bite.  Which two US cities have open carry for all able bodied citizens?  Who gets to decide the definition of "able bodied", and just what IS that definition?  What if you are "able bodied" but not "able minded"?

"Seldom was there any incident" in the "Old West times"?   I'm just going to leave that one alone.  That one speaks for itself.

[kickingandscreaming]

There are four things that might happen if a person were to fire a gun on an airplane:

    The bullet simply goes through the aluminum skin of the plane and punches a small hole as it exits.
    The bullet hits a window and blows it out.
    The bullet hits wiring hidden in the walls or the floor.
    The bullet hits a fuel tank.

If the bullet simply punctures the skin of an airplane, then it's no big deal. The cabin of the airplane is pressurized, and the hole creates a small leak, but the pressurization system will compensate for it. A single hole, or even a few holes like this, will have no effect.

If the bullet blows out a window, that's a problem. A big one. When the window blows, the plane will depressurize over the course of several seconds. Since all of the air in the cockpit is rushing toward the missing window, a lot of debris will be heading in that direction with it. If the person sitting next to the window isn't strapped in, then it's possible that he or she will get pushed out -- another good reason to wear your safety belt at all times!

In the meantime, the loss of cabin pressurization creates a problem for everyone on the plane. A commercial airliner flying at 30,000 feet (9,144 meters) is flying slightly higher than the peak of Mount Everest. The air at this altitude is so thin that a person will become incoherent in a matter of a minute or so without supplemental oxygen. That's why the oxygen masks will drop from the panel in the ceiling. If you're in this situation, putting the mask on quickly, while you're still thinking clearly, is important.

If the bullet hits wiring (or worse, if the bullet hits something important like the instrument panel in the cockpit), it could cause problems that range from trivial (in-flight entertainment stops working) to severe. The damage depends on what gets hit and how important it is.

Finally, there's the problem of the fuel tanks. Commercial jets store a lot of their fuel in the wings, but there are also tanks in the fuselage (or body of the aircraft) on many planes. For example, a 747 stores thousands of gallons of fuel in the fuselage. If a bullet were to puncture a tank, it would at least cause a leak and would have some potential to cause an explosion.

From this discussion, you can see that, in general, it's not a good idea to be shooting guns on airplanes! But if you have to do it, try not to hit anything important.

https://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/science-questions/gun-on-plane1.htm

[Charlie B53]

Everyone is assuming that standard 'jacketed' lead bbullets are used.  Not so.  Fragmentation, ceramic bullets literally powder on impart.  These deliver greater 'shock' to the intended target but will NOT continue through a target and on into any secondary target.

Exhausted flight crews?  Then NTSB better set higher standards for limiting  hours worked.  There should NEVER be any crew member allowed to work extended h ours. Period.  I don't care who calls in sick, NO ONE works a double.  Not even ground crews.

Training, Training, TRAINING.  As in the Military, I am a Vet, training is everything.  Weapons safety, point of aim, training sufficient until handling that weapon becomes second nature is mandatory.  You are talking life and death, it makes a difference.

We have all seen news reports, no matter how much Home Security tries to ensure the safety of everyone there will always be that small percentage of people that manage to by-pass security and cause a problem.  It is those quite nondescript ones you have to watch out for.

Check these MANDATORY Gun Laws and the crime rates in these cities.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Cities+with+mandatory+weapons+laws&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1

[Rerun]

Don't FLY! 

   

[willowtreewren]

Everyone is assuming that standard 'jacketed' lead bbullets are used.  Not so.  Fragmentation, ceramic bullets literally powder on impart.  These deliver greater 'shock' to the intended target but will NOT continue through a target and on into any secondary target.

Exhausted flight crews?  Then NTSB better set higher standards for limiting  hours worked.  There should NEVER be any crew member allowed to work extended h ours. Period.  I don't care who calls in sick, NO ONE works a double.  Not even ground crews.

Training, Training, TRAINING.  As in the Military, I am a Vet, training is everything.  Weapons safety, point of aim, training sufficient until handling that weapon becomes second nature is mandatory.  You are talking life and death, it makes a difference.

We have all seen news reports, no matter how much Home Security tries to ensure the safety of everyone there will always be that small percentage of people that manage to by-pass security and cause a problem.  It is those quite nondescript ones you have to watch out for.

Check these MANDATORY Gun Laws and the crime rates in these cities.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Cities+with+mandatory+weapons+laws&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1

Really?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/kennesaw-gun-law/

[iolaire]

US pilots are already allowed to be certified to carry firearms post 9-11.  I think that is enough as the pilots are already the decision makers on flights and there are some in place rules regarding pilot mental health and the like.

[MooseMom]

WTW, I was just about to post the same link regarding mandatory gun laws!!  LOL!  You beat me to it.

I don't care if bullets are made of ceramic or pure gold.  Just let the air marshalls do their jobs.

Yes, exhausted flight crews.  The NTSB has no influence over the desires for profit by the airlines.  Flight crews would LOVE to have more rest, but corporate America is having none of it.  But it is not only extended working hours; it is also the extended time on flights that go over many time zones.

On international flights, you can't compel flight crews to carry guns, especially crews from non-US carriers.  As for US based crews that fly internationally, what do they do with those firearms once they enter, say, Japan or China? 

Who is going to pay for the TRAINING TRAINING TRAINING?  Not me.

I feel safer on an airplane than I do in just about any place else on the ground in this country.  People walking into a Walmart don't go through pre-check and then through x-ray searches and manual searches like they do on a plane.  There is just no justification for arming flight crews.  Go ahead and fight to arm every human being in America, just leave us air passengers alone.

[Paul]

These deliver greater 'shock' to the intended target but will NOT continue through a target and on into any secondary target.

This assumes they hit the target. If they miss and hit a window, they will take that out too.

[Charlie B53]

Really?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/kennesaw-gun-law/

Really.

Maybe you didn't read this line copied from that Snopes page.

In 1981, the year before the ordinance was adopted, Kennesaw recorded 55 house burglaries. The next year there were 26, and in 1985 only 11.

[Charlie B53]

Someone once said

"The only way to fight Evil is to give Good Men guns."

[Michael Murphy]

I prefer Air Marshals, not only are they trained to deal with hijackers and terrorists but are armed with lower powered weapons with frangible bullets.  Won’t go through a target, won’t penetrate skin of plane or windows.

[Charlie B53]

Outside of aircraft, I fail to understand all the hoopla over lawful concealed carry.

What most fail to grasp is given a 'situation' it is the lawful carry that is more likely to be willing to step forward and save lives long before law enforcement can arrive.

Being a Vet I know that I am simply a bag of meat waiting to be called home to my Lord.  If it be while in the act of saving others then so be it.

'Nuff Said.

[MooseMom]

Outside of aircraft, I fail to understand all the hoopla over lawful concealed carry.

What most fail to grasp is given a 'situation' it is the lawful carry that is more likely to be willing to step forward and save lives long before law enforcement can arrive.

Being a Vet I know that I am simply a bag of meat waiting to be called home to my Lord.  If it be while in the act of saving others then so be it.

'Nuff Said.

I can only share my own personal feelings about this. 

I don't like concealed carry; I'd prefer open carry because when I enter a public place, I want to see who has a gun so that I will know to walk right back out.

I resent having to bear the burden of worry about the guy next to me.  Is he carrying?  Did he wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?  Is he angry with his wife?  Has he just been fired?  Has he been drinking?  Is he high?  Is he unwell?  What is his mental state?  How do I know, if he is indeed carrying, he's legally doing so?  What am I supposed to do, approach him and ask him to see his permit?

I highly doubt that people who conceal carry do so to "save other people".  If that's your goal, then join the police force!  That particular justification is just BS.

Why do I have to spend my time and MY FREEDOM in kowtowing to people who just have to have their own private arsenal?  I just do not believe, in my heart of hearts, that I, as an older female, am safer while men carry around their guns everywhere I go.

What about ME?  What about MY safety?  What about MY peace of mind?  Don't I count at all?  Why do YOU count more than I do?  Why do YOU get to carry your lethal weapon around while I have to be afraid?  I really resent the loss of MY freedom to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness because a minority of men have to have their guns while they run their errands or go have lunch.

If being a Vet makes you feel that you are simply a bag of meat waiting to be called home to your Lord, then that is fine.  But you can do a lot of good for a lot of people without having to shoot anyone.  Mentor a kid.  Spend time reading to kids in your local library.  There are thousands of people out there who could use your assistance in a whole manner of ways that don't involve guns.  And there are more ways to "save others" than by waiting for "a situation".

[willowtreewren]

Really?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/kennesaw-gun-law/

Really.

Maybe you didn't read this line copied from that Snopes page.

In 1981, the year before the ordinance was adopted, Kennesaw recorded 55 house burglaries. The next year there were 26, and in 1985 only 11.

I read the entire article. Including those statistics.

The ordinance did not significantly change the landscape of gun ownership. So the question has to be "What else may have been going on that could have affected these numbers?" Keep in mind that correlation does not prove causation.

[Charlie B53]

The GA general public isn't aware of which ouseholds have, or do not have, weapons.

Bad Guys have to wonder if there is an armed person and decide whther to rob or not.  Just having the law makes them think twice about committing a crime.

I don't understand why so many people continue to live in fear of becoming a victim.  Take steps to learn defense, whether it be personal self-defense or weapons training.  Weapons are nothing more than another tool.  They cannot and do not act on their own.  They are simply a lump of inert metal, much like a hammer or a wrench.  It cannot do anything until the human hand makes it do what it is intended to do.

I know a number of Ladies, some Vets, that carry.  You would never know it to look at them.  We are just people getting on with our lives, but unwilling to allow ourselves to become a victim of some idiot intent on doing harm.

I would never harm another person, unless, that person was in the act of trying to do harm to another.

No, I would not want to become part of Law Enforcement.  They are paid to put themselves into situations daily that do have a high possibility of going bad.  I rather just lead my relatively quiet life.

[kristina]

Someone once said

"The only way to fight Evil is to give Good Men guns."

Hello Charlie, I dare-say many people in the UK would agree with you on that because Policemen in the UK are not carrying guns, whereas criminals do carry not only guns but also vicious-looking knives and the crime-rate in the Uk is going up and up and further up ... and Police-stations are closing down and down and they are closing further down again ... and naturally you hardly ever have a chance to see a policeman these days ... and to be quite honest, many people would not even have any idea where to go for help if anything on the criminal spectrum would happen to them ... such is life ... 

[Paul]

I dare-say many people in the UK would agree with you on that because Policemen in the UK are not carrying guns.......and the crime-rate in the Uk is going up and up

I don't think the UK is a very good example because:

1) The reason crime is going up in the UK is because the police are under funded due to the government's policy of economising on everything, not because the police are not armed.

2) When asked, the majority of British police officers (NB "majority", not "all") said they did not want to be armed, with many saying that they would leave the force if the law changed to allow all police to be armed.

3) In a survey, most British people were against allowing people to be armed, and although by a smaller majority, most were against the police being armed.

Remember, someone may well have said "The only way to fight Evil is to give Good Men guns." But someone else once said "Come at me with a gun and I'll take it out of your hands, shove it up your ass, and blow your brains out!"