Brexit to go?

[MooseMom]

It's debate night on the path to the General Election next month.  Exciting, right?   

Any thoughts from anyone here on the future of Brexit, the election, anything?

[kristina]

Dear MooseMom,
I would be very surprised, if anyone here thinks too much about Brexit at this moment ...  it seems we are all too shocked about the revelations coming to the surface when Prince Andrew gave this interview...
... The mind boggles and it is all too unbelievable to even think about and some people have even gone as far as questioning the judgement to allow the interview to take place in Buckingham Palace... and some others are already in the process to set up a "Save The Queen" initiative, but perhaps it has become a bit late? I don't know ...  I honestly don't know ...

[Paul]

It is fortunate that Prince Andrew is only eighth in line to the throne, so is unlikely in the extreme to become king. If there was any real chance of him taking the throne there would be a lot more fuss. As it is, I expect the matter will die down eventually, assuming the US does not apply for an extradition order against him.

The main reason, IMHO, that the papers are jumping on him is NOT because he may have had sex with a seventeen year old girl, but because he tends to be arrogant, aloof, and a bit unpleasant to the press, and this gives them a chance for revenge.

[Paul]

Anyhoo, back to Brexit......

The saga continues on and on and on.... We have one political party that promises to cancel Brexit and remain in the EU, and one who will pull us out as soon after the election as the EU will allow. The best way to get through Brexit is if everyone votes for one or other of these two parties, then the winner takes all. However opinion poles say that most people are not going to do this. They are either going to vote for: The party that promised to get us out right after the referendum, but has been arguing about how to do it for over three years, and looks like it will never come to a conclusion and will still be arguing about it long after I am dead. Or they are going to vote for the party that has said that their policy is to have a second referendum, probably, but they might just cancel Brexit and remain in the EU, or possibly pull us out with an amazing deal with the EU - but they will absolutely, defiantly do one of those three things....or something else.

Since this thread will probably go on until Brexit/Remain is resolved, do not expect it to die anytime soon. This saga is scheduled to go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and..........

[kristina]

It is fortunate that Prince Andrew is only eighth in line to the throne, so is unlikely in the extreme to become king. If there was any real chance of him taking the throne there would be a lot more fuss. As it is, I expect the matter will die down eventually, assuming the US does not apply for an extradition order against him.

The main reason, IMHO, that the papers are jumping on him is NOT because he may have had sex with a seventeen year old girl, but because he tends to be arrogant, aloof, and a bit unpleasant to the press, and this gives them a chance for revenge.

... I beg to disagree...
It has been mentioned that it should be taken into consideration that he is the son of the Queen of England ... and for many years the British taxpayer has paid him alone a yearly state-funded-salary of £249.000 ... and it appears to be very frightening, that in his BBC-interview he never even bothered to mention any of the victims ... What else is there to be discovered ?

[Paul]

... I beg to disagree...
It has been mentioned that it should be taken into consideration that he is the son of the Queen of England ... and for many years the British taxpayer has paid him alone a yearly state-funded-salary of £249.000 ... and it appears to be very frightening, that in his BBC-interview he never even bothered to mention any of the victims ... What else is there to be discovered ?

Yes, but:

1) America is keen to do a trade deal with us as soon as Brexit is finalised, do you really think they will jeopardise that by going after the eighth in line for the throne of Great Britain?

2) As to the British public, they get bored easily, give it a couple of weeks and they will give up on the story, then the press will give up as it no longer sells copy, the TV and radio will give up as it no longer gets viewers/listeners, and other things will take the place of this story in the press, such as silly season type Christmas stories.

3) We have an election coming up, no one in authority wants this type of story running to mess with that.

4) As of yesterday, he has been fired or resigned as a "royal", except for family business (he is still the Queen's son) he will take no part in royal activities whatsoever. The public have had their pound of flesh, he has been punished, they don't care about anything else.

In short, pretty much everyone is saying "Nothing to see here, move along please, move along." But they are wasting their time, the gawkers are already moving off, and are looking for the next big thing to gawk at lasciviously.

[Paul]

... and for many years the British taxpayer has paid him alone a yearly state-funded-salary of £249.000

This is actually a popular urban myth, the Royal Family don't get paid a penny. What happens is that government has control of their properties, and whatever they earn the government takes 85%, and share out the remaining 15% between the Royals.

This is still a lot of money, but then the Royal Family have been the kings and queens of Britain for centuries, and of England for even longer, so have acquired an enormous amount of land and property. But basically, we (the tax payers) don't give them a penny, and they are effectively paying 85% tax on their earnings.

[kristina]

It is fortunate that Prince Andrew is only eighth in line to the throne, so is unlikely in the extreme to become king. If there was any real chance of him taking the throne there would be a lot more fuss. As it is, I expect the matter will die down eventually, assuming the US does not apply for an extradition order against him.

The main reason, IMHO, that the papers are jumping on him is NOT because he may have had sex with a seventeen year old girl, but because he tends to be arrogant, aloof, and a bit unpleasant to the press, and this gives them a chance for revenge.

... I beg to disagree...
It has been mentioned that it should be taken into consideration that he is the son of the Queen of England ... and for many years the British taxpayer has paid him alone a yearly state-funded-salary of £249.000 ... and it appears to be very frightening, that in his BBC-interview he never even bothered to mention any of the victims ... What else is there to be discovered ?

According to the Evening Standard, Daily Mail, Mail Online etc. , the latest news on this are as follows  :
"Her Majesty summoned her 'favourite son' to deliver the bad news and told him he would lose his £250,000 taxpayer-funded salary and would only appear in public at family events".

[Paul]

According to the Evening Standard, Daily Mail, Mail Online etc. , the latest news on this are as follows  :
"Her Majesty summoned her 'favourite son' to deliver the bad news and told him he would lose his £250,000 taxpayer-funded salary and would only appear in public at family events".

Not sure if you are pointing out that he has lost his job or that they say "taxpayer-funded salary". If you post was about him loosing his job, then I already mentioned that. If your post was to point out that they say "taxpayer-funded salary", never trust the daily/Sunday/online Mail, it has only a loose knowledge of the truth, and the Evening Standard is not too good a paper since it went "free" (the ownership of the paper changed hands a few years back, and the entire company was sold for a penny, the general opinion in the business was that the new owners overpaid). A good hint at the questionable accuracy is the comment "favourite son", he isn't, or at least the Queen has never said so. Also, the official line is that he resigned, not that the Queen "fired" him, she may have done, but that is an assumption by the press, not a known fact. Although £250,000 could be an accurate figure for his share of the money.

However, if he is no longer getting a share of the Royal Purse, and has given up all his "jobs", one wonders how he is going to live, he must be getting some money from somewhere. I cannot imagine that the government will allow the Queen's son to live on the street, begging for food.

[iolaire]

I don’t know why you are still talking Brexit!  I thought one or two politicians set hard dates for when it would be complete.

[Paul]

I don’t know why you are still talking Brexit!  I thought one or two politicians set hard dates for when it would be complete.

Oh yes they did, then they missed the date, set a new one, missed that, set a new one, then so on.

The most recent deadline was 31st of October, the Prime Minister said he would rather die in a ditch than ask the EU for another extension. In the end he missed that deadline and got yet another extension. The Brexiteers are disappointed that he went back on his word and asked for the extension. The rest of us are disappointed that he went back on his word and did not die in a ditch.

We are now having an election to sort the matter out, with the most likely winner being the party that has screwed it up for over three years, and will probably be screwing it up three years hence. As I said in a previous post, don't expect this thread to die anytime soon!

[kristina]

It is fortunate that Prince Andrew is only eighth in line to the throne, so is unlikely in the extreme to become king. If there was any real chance of him taking the throne there would be a lot more fuss. As it is, I expect the matter will die down eventually, assuming the US does not apply for an extradition order against him.

The main reason, IMHO, that the papers are jumping on him is NOT because he may have had sex with a seventeen year old girl, but because he tends to be arrogant, aloof, and a bit unpleasant to the press, and this gives them a chance for revenge.

... I beg to disagree...
It has been mentioned that it should be taken into consideration that he is the son of the Queen of England ... and for many years the British taxpayer has paid him alone a yearly state-funded-salary of £249.000 ... and it appears to be very frightening, that in his BBC-interview he never even bothered to mention any of the victims ... What else is there to be discovered ?

P.S. In terms of "What else is there to be discovered ..." .. should it not be mentioned that, despite the fact - and I quote : "Prince Andrew is only eighth in line to the throne, so is unlikely in the extreme to become king" -  he certainly must have caused a huge security-risk to the UK not only because of the possibility of "filmed pillow-talk" etc. and resulting blackmail etc., etc., but because his mother, The Queen, is Head of State and therefore in a very confidential position and as her son who regularly sees her, dines at Buckingham Palace etc. could he not have caused to be a National Security risk  ?

[kristina]

Wooh, shouldn't this be in "Political Debates - Thick Skin Required for Entry"? If there are enough British members from each side, this could become the nastiest argument on the board. There could even be blood.

Hello Paul ...  and ... I don't really see a chance for any "heated" arguments about it, because, after all, we don't even have an idea whether or not it might be given a chance to happen during our life-time ...

P.S. There is still a lingering suspicion that politicians were taken by surprise when the outcome of voting did not comply with expectations ...

... Unfortunately nothing has been resolved or "gone forward" or changed since my first Brexit-input on 14th April 2018 and rumour has it that there won't be any results for a long time to come...  but ... perhaps ... maybe  ?

[Alexysis]

Let an American share his views on this: It seems that a few people really want to leave, a few really wish to remain, and the majority can be swayed either way by the latest ad campaign, whether is is domestically funded or funded by nefarious foreign entities. Also, what the blazes does completing Brexit have to do with any trade deal with the US?

[MooseMom]

 Also, what the blazes does completing Brexit have to do with any trade deal with the US?

1.  With Brexit completed, the UK will be looking for trade deals with countries outside of the EU, and the US will see Britain as ripe for the picking.  The UK will be free to set its own agricultural trade rules but will lack the "heft" that comes with being a member of a much larger economy (the EU).  So, it is very possible that the UK will soften its regulations and will allow in US goods that have been hitherto curtailed by the EU (like the highly publicized "chlorinated chicken" and hormone-fed beef.).  But as of now, the UK cannot make new trade deals until it has formally left the EU.

2.  The NHS.  As we all know, this US administration is very "transactional", and if it remains in government after 2020, the UK will be under intense pressure from US trade negotiators to allow US health care private companies access to the UK health market, ie, the revered NHS.  This issue is already a matter of concern in Great Britain.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/02/us-wants-access-to-nhs-in-post-brexit-deal-ambassador-to-uk-says

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/31/us-style-healthcare-nhs-patients-election-health

https://twitter.com/C4Dispatches/status/1188831701654482945

3.  Believe it or not, a lot depends upon the fate of Northern Ireland and how/if Brexit creates a new hard border between NI and the Republic, which is remaining in the EU.  Many Senators will simply NOT agree to anything they see as negatively impacting the Good Friday agreement, including trade.

https://www.courthousenews.com/pelosi-no-us-uk-trade-deal-if-brexit-includes-hard-border-with-ireland/

[Paul]

It seems that a few people really want to leave, a few really wish to remain

Oh no, nearly 50% want to remain, nearly 50% want to leave, and only about 5% are "on the fence". And the "leavers" include several very angry people. If we have a second referendum, and the 5% decide to vote "remain", that will be enough to tip the scales into the "remain camp". At least one politician has pointed out that if this happens there will be riots and violence from a fair proportion of the "leave camp". You must remember that the main reason most "leavers" voted to leave is that they wanted "all these bloody foreigners"  out of the country. Many are extreme fascists, and are prepared to do whatever necessary to get us out of Europe. This is not a "few people" but a large angry mob. Civil war has been suggested as the possible outcome, and although I personally consider this unlikely in the extreme, I'm not 100% convinced of my own argument. People are stockpiling food, water, and medicines in preparation for Brexit, and although most are doing this off their own back, the government advice is to stockpile,

As to "what the blazes does completing Brexit have to do with any trade deal with the US", What MooseMom said sums it up perfectly, but I would add that there is a lot of public hysteria about those two things. Even the "leavers" do not want chlorinated chicken or hormone-fed beef, and as to allowing US health care private companies access to the NHS, if that happens I predict a riot.

In short, whatever happens, there will be bad blood and hatred between each side for at least a generation.

[kristina]

It is fortunate that Prince Andrew is only eighth in line to the throne, so is unlikely in the extreme to become king. If there was any real chance of him taking the throne there would be a lot more fuss. As it is, I expect the matter will die down eventually, assuming the US does not apply for an extradition order against him.

The main reason, IMHO, that the papers are jumping on him is NOT because he may have had sex with a seventeen year old girl, but because he tends to be arrogant, aloof, and a bit unpleasant to the press, and this gives them a chance for revenge.

... I beg to disagree...
It has been mentioned that it should be taken into consideration that he is the son of the Queen of England ... and for many years the British taxpayer has paid him alone a yearly state-funded-salary of £249.000 ... and it appears to be very frightening, that in his BBC-interview he never even bothered to mention any of the victims ... What else is there to be discovered ?

P.S. In terms of "What else is there to be discovered ..." .. should it not be mentioned that, despite the fact - and I quote : "Prince Andrew is only eighth in line to the throne, so is unlikely in the extreme to become king" -  he certainly must have caused a huge security-risk to the UK not only because of the possibility of "filmed pillow-talk" etc. and resulting blackmail etc., etc., but because his mother, The Queen, is Head of State and therefore in a very confidential position and as her son who regularly sees her, dines at Buckingham Palace etc. could he not have caused to be a National Security risk  ?

... I so wish I could have been wrong, but perhaps my instinct might have been right with the lingering suspicion that Prince Andrew became a dangerous Security risk for the country of which his mother is Head of State  ... ?
... A book has been written by the former Mossad-handler of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell in which he claims they were spies and used underage girls (and boys?) for "clients" and ran a blackmail enterprise for the purpose of entrapping powerful individuals and politicians ...
It seems that this story is only just unfolding itself and is becoming very politically involved indeed.... and perhaps it might be a good idea to start a new thread about it? 

[Paul]

It seems that this story is only just unfolding itself and is becoming very politically involved indeed.... and perhaps it might be a good idea to start a new thread about it? 

'Tis Done:
http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=35283


Now don't say I never give you anything!

[kristina]

Thank you Paul ...

... Since the election-result (?) is "with us", the leading question remains : what is going to happen first : Boris-Island or Brexit ? What is your guess...?

P.S. One of the great disappointments of becoming older (and wiser?) is the fact that "things" become more predictable ...

[Paul]

I don't trust anything "The Idiot Johnson" says, will not be surprised if we are still discussing Brexit this time next year (and the year after, and the year after that....).

[kristina]

I don't trust anything "The Idiot Johnson" says, will not be surprised if we are still discussing Brexit this time next year (and the year after, and the year after that....).

Hello Paul,
Just imagine : Who would have thought that the two of us would agree  ? But here we are ... and  ... let's just hope we are both wrong with our forebodings and thoughts ... 

[MooseMom]

It seems to me that this past general election pretty much served as a "second referendum".  I will be so very interested to see how a Tory government strives to meet the needs and demands of long time Labour voting constituencies.

As for the earlier discussion on what Brexit has to do with US trade policy, the US is gonna eat your lunch (and I say that with no pleasure whatsoever).  Not only are you going to have to worry about chlorinated chicken, but you're going to have to worry even more about the climate because the US under Trump sure isn't.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/21/us-bans-mention-of-climate-in-uk-trade-talks

[Paul]

It is over. Yesterday (Friday 31st January) at 11pm GMT the United Kingdom (Britain and Northern Island) finally left the EU. So that is all that finished isn't it?

Well No, not yet.

For starters, there is a one year "buffer" zone. Although we are not in the EU as I type this, we still have to obey EU rules until the first of January next year (in exchange we still get the benefits of being a member until then too). And then we have this "deal" we are supposed to be working out with Europe, so that trade can continue with Europe after the end of this year. Our Prime Minister says that this too will be done within a year, but his opposite numbers in Europe think it will take much longer, and since the leaving deal took over three years to decide, and that was just our own politicians arguing with each other before Europe was even involved, I would not be surprised if this went on until long after I am dead.

But the one thing that is certain is that the UK is no longer part of the EU and that at the end of this year the current agreement between us and mainland Europe ends. At that point we may be asking your Red Cross to start dropping care parcels of food and medicines, because the most pessimistic predictions are that we will soon be in need those after the 31st of December.