Vote for Vengeance in 2018

[Michael Murphy]

For years I have argued you can’t ban all guns. Now after the latest killing spree I have changed my opinion.  The only right granted under the constitution with out limits is the right to own guns.  Reasonable measures such as not selling guns to crazy people or not to sell guns to people on the terrorist watch list, or the inability to stop the sale of bumpstocks has lead me to the conclusion that the second admendment should be repealed.  If that happens and it leads to no guns well the reasonable approach has been tried for years and the gun club has blocked them.  If the same approach was taken with the first admendment it would be leagal to scream fire in a theater or to produce child porn.  So we are left with bodies hitting the floor across America.  Romberg what has happened to the survivors of Sandy Hook gun nuts have harassed them for years trying to prove it never happened.

[Charlie B53]

Throughout History many countries have banned weapons, specifically firearms.  And proceeded to kill off selected portions of their populations.   Look it up.  Governments, everywhere, tend to select which portion of their population to oppress.  That old thing to much power goes to their head.

Governments need to have strict limitations placed on their power.   Term limits are a great idea.  But Congress and the Senate will NEVER give up their 'Ruling Elite' status.

I no longer remember exactly how it came about, but some time ago (while I was still Enlisted 72 - 75) many of our military officers and enlisted were asked the question, "Could/would you fire upon U.S. Citizens if so ordered?"   Far too many replied 'No".

It wasn't to much later that foreign troops started training temporarily assigned to U.S. bases right here within the U.S.  And they are still here.  You think they will be hesitant in firing on U.S. Citizens?     Kinda makes you wonder exactly WHY Congress has allowed foreign troops on our soil.  Like I said, 'Ruling Elite'.

[MooseMom]

Simon Dog introduced me to the phrase "Barbies for men", and it is genius.

[Michael Murphy]

I have always till now supported guns for huntiny, but I have decided that if the gun nuts won’t allow reasonable controls on assault weapons, military grade weapons then lets start the process of repealing the second admendment.  After all it’s the only right in the constitution that does not have restrictions.  Americans need to look at NRA money and vote for the non NRA candidates.  Any gathering is a potential mass murder waiting to happen.  This violence directed at the innocent must be stopped.

[Rerun]

Three police officers have been shot in Northern Idaho in a week.  One was Charlie my brother's step son.

The other two were shot today.  All will survive.  The Suspects, respectively, are dead.  No National attention.  Why?  White cops and white dirt bags.  Not News Worthy. 

The dirt bag that shot Charlie was a felon.... with a gun!  Now damn it Felons are NOT supposed to have guns!
WTF?   How did that happen AGAIN!!

It's simple: Bad Guys Will always get guns!   

[Rerun]

Forget Pools!  How many Pedestrians  are killed by texting and walking without paying attention! 

http://www.mcall.com/news/nationworld/pennsylvania/mc-pa-why-pedestrian-deaths-are-rising-20170330-story.html

[Michael Murphy]

The reason for felons with guns is the lack of background checks on certain type of sales.  Why no checks ask the NRA.  Pool deaths are generally caused by incompetent owners,  it’s not 50 people attending a concert fault they are being gunned down by a maniac with a weapon that shoots 100 rounds in 13 seconds. 

[Rerun]

Felons KNOW  they are Not supposed to buy or steal guns ...

[Michael Murphy]

Oh you expect criminals to self notify sellers that they are felons,  it would be more workable for every gun sale be validated by the local police.  List of things that can kill people are ludicrous,   I can fence my pool, watch were I walk, but what could 50 Las Vegas concert doers do to stop a maniac from killing them.

[Simon Dog]

In my state, all private sales must be reported via an on-line system that requires the buyer enter their gun license # and PIN.   The private sale cannot proceed until the system confirms that the license is still valid.   

[Rerun]

As far as I know, the Las Vegas Shooter would have passed any background check. 

Let's get rid of the guns and see if that works.  It has not worked to ban drugs.

[Simon Dog]

If we get rid of guns, lets start with the important people: Celebritie's bodyguards, rich and important people (Did you Donald Trump had a hens tooth, a/k/a NYC carry permit before he went into politics?  Ditto for Sean Penn, Howard Stern and other big names), off duty police (why should they be special when not on the job?), and politicians staff below the level of President/VP.  Don't forget Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg's and Rosie O'Donnel's personal armed security.  Once those people are disarmed, they will have the moral authority to argue that others should be as well.

Funny how many are really arguing "guns for me but not for thee".

Let's get rid of the guns and see if that works.  It has not worked to ban drugs.

Alcohol prohibition was a grand experiment showing the futility of attempting to repeal the laws of supply and demand.   The country has just begun the process of realizing that MJ prohibition was a catastrophic failure.

[Rerun]

Just heard this on CBS Evening News

According to the CDC drug overdoses kill 5 people every HOUR across the United States.

[Simon Dog]

Just heard this on CBS Evening News

According to the CDC drug overdoses kill 5 people every HOUR across the United States.

Many of those ODs are due to Fentanyl being introduced into the Heroin supply, and customers not knowing what they were getting.   ODs would go down considerably if heroin of known purity was legally sold at pharmacies.   See, I am pro-choice on everything.

Curiously, my transplant surgeon told me IV drug addicts are the most skilled patients when it comes to self treatment fistula care.

[Bill Peckham]

Just heard this on CBS Evening News

According to the CDC drug overdoses kill 5 people every HOUR across the United States.

Many of those ODs are due to Fentanyl being introduced into the Heroin supply, and customers not knowing what they were getting.   ODs would go down considerably if heroin of known purity was legally sold at pharmacies.   See, I am pro-choice on everything.

That can be true. It is also the case that people seek out fentanyl.


It is impacting the provision of dialysis. I've not seen a discussion of opioids on IHD - a lot of dialyzors have prescriptions

[Paul]

Here is an interesting statistic for you: In Britain, with a few exceptions, private gun ownership is illegal. In Britain, the number of killings per capita are a lot lower than in the US. There are two possible reasons for this:

1) Guns kill people, banning guns in America would result in less murders. So private gun ownership should be made illegal.

Or

2) Americans, as a whole, are nasty horrid people, and British people are much better human beings that Americans.

Now which of those two do you want to cling to?




PS, I'm British, so I'm going for number two.

[Simon Dog]

In Britain, the number of killings per capita are a lot lower than in the US

You have a greater chance of being knifed 2 death in London than you have of being shot to death in NYC.

[Paul]

In Britain, the number of killings per capita are a lot lower than in the US

You have a greater chance of being knifed 2 death in London than you have of being shot to death in NYC.

No, you had a greater chance of being murdered in London during the first three months of this year than in New York City, however taking a 12 month average, you had a lot more chance of being killed in NYC than in London. We just had a bad few bad months. And anyway, London has a higher population than NYC, PER CAPITA London had a lower killing rate than NYC during that period (just).

I was talking about the whole country in both cases, and Britain, as a whole, had a fraction of the number of killings (per capita) as the US. You cannot take one city and consider it representative of the whole country. For example, the city that used to be called "the murder capital of Europe" had no killings last year, you cannot extrapolate from this that there were no killings in Europe last year.

[Paul]

To give you the accurate figures: There are less than five times as many people in the US as in the UK, so you would expect less than five times as many murders in the US as in the UK. However in 2017 there were just under twenty five times as many murders in the US as in the UK, or FIVE TIMES AS MANY MURDERS per capita. That is a hell of a lot of killings!

So, I repeat my question: Are you a nation of psychopaths, or is the "right to bear arms" an evil article of the constitution that is killing thousands of Americans each year?

[Michael Murphy]

The gun club zombies will equate all sorts of risks such as pools, drugs, and every thing that can kill you.  Problem for this argument is that if I take drugs I choose a risky habit that could]d kill me,  but I could be attending a public event and be gunnr=ed down by a maniac with a assault rifle firing 100 rounds in 13 seconds.  Result 50 dead in Las Vegas people who did nothing wrong but the fact as a country we allow the public to walk around armed with weapons designed to kill mass numbers of hum an beings.   Its time to remove the second amendment just like the 21 admendment was canceled when the nation realized it was not working. 

[Simon Dog]

It is easy for people to think that the US will always be a bastion of freedom, however, we have already seen changes that, had I predicted them on a high school essay back in the 70s, would have earned me a failing grade.

• Secret overseas detention centers?
• Doing things to prisoners that the US called torture when the Viet Cong did them to our service people?
• Widespread monitoring of all citizens communications?
• A secret court that would rubber stamp warrants?
• National security letters that bind a recipient, who signed no confidentiality contract with the govt to maintain secrecy?
• $10,000 per day fine for offering a private untappable communication service?
  (in fact, the law requires all telecommunication providers provide the govt the ability to tap any phone from a remote govt location, with only the govts promise it will tap only with a warrant)
• Secret dockets and trials in federal courts that are not open to the public?
• Civil forfeiture without the benefit of a trial?
• Internal passport required for travel?
• Inability to fly anonymously without the govt getting a report of your moves?

It is easy to say that the people will never need to rise up against the government, and in today's world, that is true.   It will probably be true for some time, probably several more generations.   But, given the fundamental change we have seen in the relationship between the people and the government, I do not trust a government that would disarm its citizens - even if it is currently operating in a benign and benevolent manner.

The gun club zombies

You've got that backward.  It's the gun club zombie hunters.

Hornaday ammo released "Zombie Killer" ammo as an apparent joke.  It was identical to their ammo with the red plastic tip, but colored green.  It has remained in their product line as a major seller.

Problem for this argument is that if I take drugs I choose a risky habit that could kill me,

Excellent point, but we allow people to drive, even when they become statistically more dangerous than an AR15 owner with a spotless record.   I speculate that the reason for this is everyone hopes to make it to their senior years, and know they would not want their driving rights taken away.   It's easier to advocate taking away a right from another person when it is one you do not personally value or exercise.

I was in a 3 car fatal accident a bit over a month ago.  The 85-year-old female driver who caused it (police report conclusion, not just mine) is dead, and my wife is still in recovery from an ACDF (Anterior Cervical Discectomy and Fusion) of the C4/C5 vertebrae.   That surgery is as scary and painful as the term would leave one to believe.   I respectfully submit that it is likely we could save more lives than are lost in mass shootings if we required drivers over a certain age to require a current medical and driving test to stay on the road.    Ironically, my wife recognized such dangers and was personally responsible for taking two drivers in their 80's in our family off the road, one of whom never spoke to her for the remainder of his life as a result.

No, you had a greater chance of being murdered in London during the first three months of this year than in New York City, however taking a 12-month average, you had a lot more chance of being killed in NYC than in London

Yes, but if I am attacked by someone with a knife, I can draw my legally carried gun (assuming I have not lazily left it at home, which I have unfortunately become prone to do).   Londoners have no such option.  It's about individual responsibility vs. collectivism.

Its time to remove the second amendment just like the 21 amendment was canceled when the nation realized it was not working.

The courts are already doing that job for you.   We just got another federal court ruling (Worman v. Baker in the first district federal court) that AR15s are not covered the second amendment.  I expect the 3 judge panel to affirm, en banc to be denied or affirm, and SCOTUS cert not to be granted.   So, the constitution is already void where prohibited by law.

[Paul]

Post was simply a message to Simon Dog as something was wrong with his post, but it appears that the problem was that he was editing as I was reading, so I have removed what are now pointless comments.

[Paul]

No, you had a greater chance of being murdered in London during the first three months of this year than in New York City, however taking a 12-month average, you had a lot more chance of being killed in NYC than in London

Yes, but if I am attacked by someone with a knife, I can draw my legally carried gun (assuming I have not lazily left it at home, which I have unfortunately become prone to do).   Londoners have no such option.  It's about individual responsibility vs. collectivism.

So basically you are saying you go for option two, that us Brits are better people than you Americans??

[Simon Dog]

Post was simply a message to Simon Dog as something was wrong with his post, but it appears that the problem was that he was editing as I was reading, so I have removed what are now pointless comments.

Exactly right.    I have too much time on my hands right now, and nobody on this forum will have a hard time guessing what I am stuck doing right now.

I am enjoying our dialog.  I hope those who find my comments distasteful can return to the dialysis oriented topics on IHD.

You do raise a fundamentally good point about risks voluntarily assumed and those over which you have no control.  It is definitely worth some thought.

So basically you are saying you go for option two, that us Brits are better people than you Americans??

I don't understand.  Are you saying Brits are better because you don't allow self-defense?

[Simon Dog]

As to the pools vs AR question:

https://m1-garand-rifle.com/gun-safety/firearms-versus-swimming-pools.php

Unfortunately, it does not break down gun deaths by weapon model; just shows total aggregate by age group for pools and guns.