Harvey Weinstein

[Rerun]

Is the once Golden Boy Harvey Weinstein a Pig or did he just finally get caught.  It seems sick and wrong, but how come you never hear Women coming on to these men.  That never happens?  I would like to see a man come out against a woman making sexual advances to them.  I've seen it in bars.  Just as disturbing.  Especially when it is someone's husband.  It takes two.  No should be no on  either side.

Just my 

[kickingandscreaming]

Is Golden Boy, Donald Trump, a Pig or did he finally get caught?

[MooseMom]

Is the once Golden Boy Harvey Weinstein a Pig or did he just finally get caught.  It seems sick and wrong, but how come you never hear Women coming on to these men.  That never happens?  I would like to see a man come out against a woman making sexual advances to them.  I've seen it in bars.  Just as disturbing.  Especially when it is someone's husband.  It takes two.  No should be no on  either side.

Just my 

Oh my God, really, rerun?

Men LIKE having women coming on to them.  That's why they have Ladies' Night in bars.

And yes, Weinstein IS a pig.  Watch this, if you dare.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8sFfsIiU2s

[Rerun]

Men are just horn dogs and more are born everyday.  Do we engineer their DNA to fix that?  And now with snap chat and instagram they are learning younger and younger.  I imagine it will just get worse.

[Rerun]

I bet he was a HIDDEN Republican!  He just acted like a Democrat to get the girls.  LOL

    

[Michael Murphy]

Not all men are “horn dogs” just as all blondes are not dumb.  Weinstein is clearly a lout.  If there is any justice his next move will be from Bel Air to San Quentin.  But I find any attempt to put a group of people in a category is generally flawed.

[Simon Dog]

Men are often pigs.  No question about out.

Women are often golddiggers.  When you see a 25 year old blonde in a convertable M3 or Vette, do you immediately think "She must have worked very hard to get to where she is" or do you think "I wonder who she married"?

The classic old school model is men using their power and money to get what they want, and women using their looks and charms to get what they want.   Weinstein demonstrates the worst of this.

[kickingandscreaming]

Your stereotyping model may reflect some kernel of truth in the TRADITIONAL male/female roles.  But with Weinstein (and Trump, Cosby, Ailes, etc) we're not talking about "traditional" values.  We're talking about sexual assault and predation and the abuse of power.  Both are--or dangle closely-- to the criminal.

[Simon Dog]

Your stereotyping model may reflect some kernel of truth in the TRADITIONAL male/female roles.  But with Weinstein (and Trump, Cosby, Ailes, etc) we're not talking about "traditional" values.  We're talking about sexual assault and predation and the abuse of power.  Both are--or dangle closely-- to the criminal.

Agreed, they are not "traditional values", but rather the traditional practice of a man using money and power to get sex.    His offense was blurring the line of consent.   And what of the women who put out to get roles?  (I'm assuming not everyone turned him down).  What does that make them?

There are three things used to attract a mate: What you have (money/power); what you are like as a person and what you are like physically.    Weinstein shows the worst of what can happen when you only offer the first of the three.

[MooseMom]

The fact that the practice of men sexually harassing women has become labelled as "traditional practice" is very disturbing.

What does it make a woman who has to "put out" to get a role?  It makes her a victim.  That this is even a question is also very disturbing...and telling.  This is what is known as "victim shaming".

Harvey Weinstein was not trying to attract a mate.

Let's think about the word so often used..."Power".  A man may have financial power, but we women know that men often wield physical power.  We don't know when a crude joke is just the first red flag, the first warning that something worse is yet to come.  "Power" can become "rape" in a heartbeat.  It is also "traditional practice" that men use money and PHYSICAL power to get sex.  This is one of the first things we girlies learn as we reach our teens.

And where are all of the "good guys"?  Why do they disappear when they know there are problems like this, that their wives or girlfriends or just female friends and colleagues are treated like this?

This kind of "traditional practice" exposes these men as what they really are...weak and pitiful, and we're done with the lot of you.  What used to be "traditional" is now repudiated and exposed and shamed upon.  We are so sick of your dangly bits.  We don't want to see them, so put your damn pants back on!   

[Simon Dog]

What does it make a woman who has to "put out" to get a role?  It makes her a victim.

Time to be politically incorrect.

If she does so because she is pressured (Weinstein style), it makes her a victim.

If she initiates or suggests sexual contact because she thinks it will get her a role, it makes her something else.

When one party is in a position of power, there is a responsibility not to take advantage of it, even if the other side is offering.   Unlike the MD/Patient relationship, there is no objective standard saying you may never date someone in your business who is on a different power level.

And where are all of the "good guys"?  Why do they disappear when they know there are problems like this, that their wives or girlfriends or just female friends and colleagues are treated like this?

First off, they are not in the room so they don't hear about it as much as the women.  In the case of the Hollywood couples, the choice becomes "do we fight this and deep six two careers at the same time?".   It's easy to be idealistic and say what you would do, or what someone should do, if you aren't the one who stands to lose a multi-million dollar payday.

Harvey Weinstein was not trying to attract a mate.

Sure he was ... if you use the definition of "mate" as "someone you mate with", not "life partner".

[kickingandscreaming]

Interesting, the double standard at work here in the Weinstein/Trump sexual predator case:

[Simon Dog]

Funny ... the K&S post could apply to both Bill Clinton and Trump.

[kristina]

Is the once Golden Boy Harvey Weinstein a Pig or did he just finally get caught.  It seems sick and wrong, but how come you never hear Women coming on to these men.  That never happens?  I would like to see a man come out against a woman making sexual advances to them.  I've seen it in bars.  Just as disturbing.  Especially when it is someone's husband.  It takes two.  No should be no on  either side.

Just my 

My thoughts as well, Rerun ! Why? Because: it always takes two to "tango"!
... During my studies at University I supported myself by working part-time as a clerk in an office.
It was then suggested to me that with my looks I could "try the movies". Well, I researched and noticed, that without the "casting-couch" there is no career in the movies whatsoever ... and that is why I had nothing to do with the movies.
What I am trying to say, is, that every girl "going" to the movies knows for sure about the reality of the "casting-couch" and - according to my research, there is no other way about it.
Furthermore, there are many different "Weinsteins" running the entertainment industry, even Hitchcock was another "Weinstein", if you care to ask Tippi Hedren about it.
The point I am trying to make is that some females do "anything" to forward their career and some other females do not do "anything" to forward their career. That seems to be the only difference worth mentioning.
The reason why there seems such an outcry right now is perhaps some females, who did "anything" to forward their career, may have noticed later, that it does not sit well with their conscience and so it seems they try and blame someone else, even so it was their own choice in the first place ...
That's my
Kristina.

[MooseMom]

Well, there is going to be a way around it NOW because we are NOT going to take it, anymore.  Harvey Pigstein has now been kicked out of the Academy, and his casting couch has been trashed.  This open dirty secret ain't so secret anymore.

Bill Clinton is a pig, too.  Doesn't matter whether these predators are dems or gop.  Their problem is that they are MEN and therefore feel entitled.

Is there any woman on this forum who has NOT EVER been groped or felt up?


Question to all of you gropees...what did you do when it happened to YOU?  I will tell you my numerous stories once I get home and no longer have to use this stupid touchpad!

[kickingandscreaming]

I have one story (among many) that stands out.  I was in Manhattan, in my thirties and a lot sexier than I am now. And buxom.  It was summer and I was wearing a thin cotton peasant blouse.  Sight seeing and minding my own business when this creep grabbed me by the breast and yelled for all of NYC to hear  "They're REAL! God Almighty, they're real.

[MooseMom]

Did you do anything, or were you just too stunned (or afraid) to react?

[kickingandscreaming]

Not really afraid.  Just stunned.

[kristina]

I have one story (among many) that stands out.  I was in Manhattan, in my thirties and a lot sexier than I am now. And buxom.  It was summer and I was wearing a thin cotton peasant blouse.  Sight seeing and minding my own business when this creep grabbed me by the breast and yelled for all of NYC to hear  "They're REAL! God Almighty, they're real.

Dear K&S , I am very sorry that you had such an awful experience and were confronted with such horrific behaviour.
That must have been quite despicable and is very, very sad.
Kind regards from Kristina.

[kristina]

Is there any woman on this forum who has NOT EVER been groped or felt up?

I must have been extremely lucky, because I never ever had such an experience...
... Until I met my husband I lived alone ... and ...  whilst I lived alone, I always dressed in blue Jeans which were three to four sizes too big for my size and my Pullovers were always a complete over-size, even so I have always been a very small size "underneath" these oversize clothes  ...
... Adding to that, whenever I travelled, I always "sported" a very visible "engagement-ring", which I had purchased ages ago in a Charity Shop especially for "travelling-purposes".
I also told anyone who asked, that I specialized in Philosophy and European Literature, and that might have also inspired some to run a mile  ...
So, on one hand I feel I was extremely lucky, on the other hand I certainly gave out clear signals with my over-sized clothes and "engagement-ring"  ... and ...  perhaps, I might have gone a bit into "overdrive" with all these clear signals, it certainly "did the trick" and worked in my favour...
Best wishes from Kristina.

[MooseMom]

Story one.

I was living and studying in Spain.  The family I was living with had neighbors who were grandparents to two adorable children, and from time to time I would walk with the children around the neighborhood.  One day we were strolling along, and a man approached walking the other direction.  As he approached me, at the last moment, he lunged at me and grabbed me.  I WAS WALKING WITH TWO YOUNG CHILDREN!!!!!!!   I don't know what was so enticing about that.  I was so shocked, I did nothing.

I had no idea if he might harm the little boy and girl I was with.  I was terrified on their behalf and hurried back home.

That's the problem with having to deal with wayward strange men.  You have no idea if their attention might become assault.

A week or so later, I was walking with the same children down the same street.  It was a fairly busy street, and it was daylight, as before.  I happened to see the same man walking toward me, and this time I was ready.  As he approached me, again he reached out to grab me, but this time I grabbed his arm and scratched it as hard as I could with my fingernails, down the entire length of his arm.

I was hassled the entire time I was in Spain.  I was studying a course sponsored by the University of St. Louis, and it attracted students from all over the US.  So, I made friends from all over the nation who attended the same course.  I was describing the problems I was having to one of my male American friends, and while he believed me, he couldn't fathom the frequency and harshness of the abuse I was getting.  So one day, I invited him to walk with me but to stay several strides behind me so that he could observe without anyone knowing he was actually accompanying me.

Let's just say that he was quite surprised at and disappointed with what he witnessed.

[Rerun]

It is not just American men then.  Sorry that happened to you MM.

I've been noticing that it DOES take two sometimes.  There are female teachers being accused of having sex with teen boys.  Now, why don't those boys complain?  Usually, someone catches them and then the boy.... HA.... starts saying how she took advantage of him.  This female just got acquitted, but her career is over.... and yet she was doing it too.

So there is sexual abuse and then there IS consensual sex.  And when the TWO get caught and they are married one of them will cry rape.  Sometimes.... not, of course, most of the time.  But, I see it.  My girlfriend just texted me from her work and the HR person just got caught in the office break room kissing the production manager.  Hmmmm both are married.  This should be interesting.

[MooseMom]

Yes, Rerun, there is a difference between what most of us would call "inappropriate" consensual sex and unwanted sexual abuse and harassment.  We are not talking about the former, rather, we are talking about the latter, ie, Weinstein.

Story no. 2.

In my first "real" job, I was the assistant to three different men.  One of them was in a meeting and asked me to collect an open file he had mistakenly left upon on his desk.  I went into his office to retrieve it, and there lay a file filled with pornographic pictures, obviously left for me to see.  How unprofessional.  I don't know what sort of message he was trying to convey, but I didn't mention it and just pretended that I'd never seen it.  Mind you, this was back in the days when women weren't supposed to talk about this sort of thing.  Oh, and this was in the US.  Men are everywhere!

My husband and I have had many conversations about this topic and the culture in which it thrives in the workplace.  He works in a profession that is filled with alpha males, and he observes that the men he works with think they are God's gift to womankind and that all women want them.  He believes that these are men who, at their core, hate women.  I don't know if that is true, but that is his perception.  My own perception is that most women don't think very highly of most men.  Our parents warn us when we are kids to avoid strangers, but the unspoken villain is always male. 

Do fathers warn their sons about predatory female teachers?  Does the prospect of having such a teacher create fear and loathing in their hearts?  I bet not.  Another false equivalency.

[KarenInWA]

Is there any woman on this forum who has NOT EVER been groped or felt up?

I must have been extremely lucky, because I never ever had such an experience...
... Until I met my husband I lived alone ... and ...  whilst I lived alone, I always dressed in blue Jeans which were three to four sizes too big for my size and my Pullovers were always a complete over-size, even so I have always been a very small size "underneath" these oversize clothes  ...
... Adding to that, whenever I travelled, I always "sported" a very visible "engagement-ring", which I had purchased ages ago in a Charity Shop especially for "travelling-purposes".
I also told anyone who asked, that I specialized in Philosophy and European Literature, and that might have also inspired some to run a mile  ...
So, on one hand I feel I was extremely lucky, on the other hand I certainly gave out clear signals with my over-sized clothes and "engagement-ring"  ... and ...  perhaps, I might have gone a bit into "overdrive" with all these clear signals, it certainly "did the trick" and worked in my favour...
Best wishes from Kristina.

I'm sorry kristina, but it sounds like you're blaming women for wearing clothes that actually fit. So what you seem to be saying (at least to me) is that if a woman chooses to buy and wear clothes that actually fit her body, she is "asking for it". Are you serious??? I'd rather not wear clothes that are way too big for my body, that will not only look gross, but impede me from moving and getting around like a normal person. Not only that, but talk about a way to look like one is severely depressed! No thank you! And when are some people going to get the clue that it has nothing to do with how you dress or even how you look - it is a power thing??? Seriously???

KarenInWA

[Simon Dog]

but the unspoken villain is always male. 

Sort of like the airline that would not allow adult males to sit next to unaccompanied minors.