Protests Under NFL

[Rerun]

This was a big abscess that President Trump lanced.  It had to be addressed. 

What do you think?   I am not watching NFL games until this gets back to those millionaires saluting the American Flag that they are privileged to play in front of.       

[willowtreewren]

This from Facebook:

K Fitzgerald Stewart
September 27 at 1:08pm ·

i have personally folded the american flag tens of thousands of times -- the perfect 13 crease fold doesn't happen by accident.
graveside, you only get ONE chance to do it right. and whether you have a full team, a partial team, or a two-person show of face, when you pull the stars and stripes off a casket, you start the fold FULLY aware the resulting triangle will probably outlive you.

so you practice.
until the tiny muscles in your fingertips and palms know every move by heart. and remember.

until you can do it with your eyes closed, wearing gloves, standing in the rain, with strangers watching.

if you care.

i have personally carried more than 200 flag-draped caskets on gravel, concrete, marble, dirt, in mud, and even once or twice in snow.

i have PERSONALLY fired enough 21-gun salutes to never need to hear the sound again.

i have personally inspected many dozens of flags from teams who folded them, on behalf of families too grief-stricken in the moment to even notice whether the details were right. i have fluffed corners, tucked wayward stripes, and smoothed lumpy edges on their behalf.

i have personally stood, knelt, squatted, once even sat in the presence of a next-of-kin and heard the cold words roll off my own tongue: "On behalf of the President of the United States, the Department of the Air Force, and a grateful nation, we offer this flag for the faithful and dedicated service of ...."

i DO NOT need YOU to explain what respect for the flag is.
not to me.

certainly not from a military perspective.
there are THOUSANDS of men and women like me.

they aren't the ones yapping.

i defer to the thoughts of combat veterans when the subject is combat.

...to retirees when the subject is careers.

on respect for the flag? i defer to no one, even when opinions differ.

i have my own.
and i EARNED it.

i'm with Kaep.

[willowtreewren]

And this:

http://www.statesman.com/events/sports/why-does-colin-kaepernick-kneel-former-longhorn-nate-boyer-says-wrote-him-letter/uvJ4bzdMO3uIDvsMtkhTfN/

So, are you saying that protesting unjust treatment of POC is an abscess, a nasty infection that should be eliminated?

More accurately, the unjust treatment should be eliminated. The world would be a better place if BLM were not needed, but the sad truth is that POC are routinely discriminated against. I am with Kaep!

[willowtreewren]

http://www.stonekettle.com/2016/09/respect-colin-kaepernick-extended-cut.html

And this.

The point is, this is NOT an issue of patriotism as some news outlets are trying to frame it.

To quote a wise thirteen year old I know, "I do not stand for the Pledge of Allegiance because there is not liberty and justice for all." She is not unpatriotic, but she realizes that there is a systemic problem in our country. POC are not treated equally or fairly.

Unfortunately, the current *president* seems to enjoy stirring up the kind of hatred that has led to even more discrimination.

Aleta

[cassandra]

Indeed a very wise thirteen year old Aleta. Divide and concur is still the easiest way to rule. Scary

[iolaire]

What I want to know is what is an acceptable way for people of color to protest?

[KarenInWA]

And when did it become "acceptable" for a sitting US President to call fellow citizens "sob's"

When I cast my vote for Hillary Rodham Clinton, I cast my vote as a vote against hate. I was afraid for my country and the craziness that I felt was about to ensue. I wish to be proven wrong, but sadly, I don't see that happening. It just seems to get worse as time goes on. I feel like I am an outsider looking in, scratching my head thinking "WTH???"

KarenInWA

[Michael Murphy]

Years ago a black man in jail who was asked why does he keep pushing for change and let things developed his answer was if not now when.  The man was the great Martin .Luther King.  For some reason most juries feel it’s ok for a police man to kill our black citizens without any punishment.  The black cafeteria worker killed as he told a officer he was carrying a gun he had a license to carry was stopped several times a month and hassled by the police.  This is a unjust system and the people who are effected by this have chosen a non violent way to express thei pain and anger with this system.  In the 50,s Rosa Parks stood up to bigotry by refusing to give up her seat and move to the back of the bus.
By kneeling Colin Kapernick is just continuing the movement to stop injustice and I support his nonviolent way of expressing his opinion.  What I think is unamerican is a attempt by a president who thinks it’s ok to attempt to quash a legitimate protest by using his office to take away some Americans 1 admendment rights .  Trumps attempt in this case is vile.  It seems his style is straight out of Putins play book.

[Simon Dog]

The black cafeteria worker killed as he told a officer he was carrying a gun he had a license to carry was stopped several times a month and hassled by the police. 

And, as usual, I believe the officer was ruled to have acted properly.

As a white guy who carries, I know that I can expect "I need to see your carry license" and polite treatment.   I would not be so confident if I were diverse.

Although some people are offended, I find the NFL protests to be peaceful, respectful, non-disruptive and not infringing on the actions or speech of others.    If only the campus liberals who protest speakers with unapproved viewpoints would be so peaceful.

[Rerun]

We won't ever be equal because it is never enough.

You work hard, get in the NFL but you can't use your Privileged to make life better?  You stick your lip out and kneel under the American flag to protest that not every person is making millions a year.  Really?  Life is not fair or equal.  I live with that?

My aunt actually said she has NEVER heard of a white policeman killing a white man.  OMG  the ignorance.

Life is as fair as you make it.  Move up and on.  AND Stand up for the American Flag.  Too many men and women of all colors fought, bled, and died for it.

The 13 year old is a snowflake.....

[Jean]

When all of the NFL heros refusing to stand in respect of our flag, it was taken as disrespect of the flag and the United States of America. Somehow it is now the poor and mistreated blacks that they are  protesting. I dont know how that happened, but at any rate, it is foolish, disrespectful and a big waste of time. Most people, I think, do not want to put out a big hunk of change to see these professional athletes disrespect our President and our flag. Nor do they want to go to a football game where violence could erupt at any second and they or one of their children could get beaten for no reason or shot for no reason because the black hero who makes a salary into the millions because he can run like crazy, wants to protest. He of course is safe. this is just a big bunch of crap and people need to put their money where their mouths are and put a stop to this. I have no problem with protests which this is, no matter what you say but Colin Kaepernick needs to stand up, be a man, and end it. There are better ways.

[Charlie B53]

All Professional Sports Players are under contract.  Contracts can get very specific as to what each player can and cannot do both on and off the field.

I made the following post on Facebook about a week ago.

"An Open Note to NFL Officials

Why isn't your own rules being followed?

The Publilc should start boycotting EVERY Game, all NFL tagged products, and ALL Sponsors of the NFL until this rules are enforced.

The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the league’s game operations manual, according to a league source. It states:

“The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

“During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.”

[Jean]

Evidently some one did not read this part of the "rules'. thanks for posting this charlie.

[Charlie B53]

College of the Ozarks has amended all their football contracts to clearly spell out that if any player takes a knee there will be NO GAME.  Including the opposing team.

College of the Ozarks is a free tuition college.

[Rerun]

It makes no sense that the police (men and women of all colors) have to protect the protesters who are protesting the police.  In Dallas 5 Police were killed protecting the people (BLM) who killed them and wounded others.  WTF?  Then the Dallas Cowboys NFL team wanted to wear decals on their helmets in honor of the murdered Police and were told "NO".  WTF?  Really?

I will watch the National Anthem today at the Seahawks game and if one knee hits the ground I'm turning it off and taking my Jersey off and laying it out in the road to be run over until it is part of the black pavement.

 

[Michael Murphy]

There is no doubt that police have become targets which is not right but blacks have a legitimate grievance with the current system. In Ferguson the cop was proven innocent but the FBI concluded that the police and courts were using the black community as a piggy bank writing excessive tickets to generate revenue.  That plus a mostly non white population with an almost totally white police force recruited from surrounding towns created a hostile environment for the local citizens,  The black population does not feel protected by the system.  After the Rodney King trial white cops beat a man but were equated by a white suburban jury.  LA exploded in the worst riots in over 20 years.  How do you want citizens to express their feeling of being second class citizens,  personally I feel a nonviolent expression is a good sign of our democracy at work.  The small minded people opposed to nonviolent protest just seem to want to keep the lower class citizens in their place.  Peacefull protest is as American as apple pie,  the attempt to repress the protests is American as nazi Germany.














Sp mod Cas

[Rerun]

Lets look at the NFL.  75 percent of players are black.  They are paid millions to put their bodies at risk and their minds at risk.  No one is forcing them to play, but by GOD if they chose to play they better get their butts out there and play and give it their ALL.  What is that saying?  To me it is demeaning.   People are treating them like dogs in a fight.  Using the almighty dollar to coax them out there.  That is keeping them down in a sense.  Pawns. 

If they really want to protest?  They need to quit and walk off with no pay.  Really protest.  Quit....

[Michael Murphy]

TheNFL is not the problem,  the judicial system is not playing puts no pressure on the judicial system only on the NFL, advertisers, broadcast compAnies, and fans. Kapermick had reached the point of  needing to express his feeling about being black in America, he did not threaten violence he did not interrupt the anthem he just quietly knelt.  If he does not have a right to his feelings who does.  The owners choose not to stop his protest.  If you don’t like it stop watching the games.  Non violent reaction to a system that treats individuals wrong is to be applauded. 

[Jean]

Rerun, that is a very good point. If they really want to protest, walk off and quit. Many would say it is not fair to make them give up their very well paying jobs. I worked for a local bank for many years and for the first 4 of them, the manager told us we could not wear pant suits, which were the current rage. And we could have protested, but only if we wanted to quit. So, wanting to keep our jobs, we did as we were told. Of course, that was the "womanly" thing to do. Because we were worthless and would never really succeed in "the bank". Fortunately I am extremely stubborn and stuck it out until I was the Operations Manager, a very coveted position. In plain words, if you want the big bucks, you do as you are instructed to do and standing at attention for the National Anthem is indeed a great honor and required by the rules.

[iolaire]

What right do you have to tell "them" what to do and how their employers should respond? 

Again can any anti kneeling people tell me what is an acceptable method to protest?   It is fairly clear that "they" are not allowed to block traffic nor respectfully kneel.    Would "they" be allowed to walk around a college community with lit tiki torches?

[Jean]

I have no right to tell any one what they do. I am merely expressing IMHO. So far, here in America, we have that priviliedge, As to how people can respectfully protest, I have no idea. Blocking traffick
 ? Certainly not. What if there was an ambulance trying to get thru. What if YOU were in that ambulance. Would you feel it was okay for them to block traffick to protest if it meant you had to die?? No it is not an easy question. I am born white, but grew up in a poor, mostly colored region. Did that mean I got a sub standard education? Did that mean I could not have gotten a college degree? No, no it did not. So what are they protesting? Do they feel they have been treated indifferently? Doubtful. I dont know the answer to this situation, as I dont feel about life the way they do. Neither do you, or any other " whities". If the blacks feel that way maybe they would like to discuss it.

[MooseMom]

Bob Costas did a very interesting interview on this topic on CNN.  I am not sure how to copy and paste a link on the device I am currently using, but go to YouTube and search " Bob Costas CNN interview".

It still amazes me that the US Army was paying the NFL, using our money, to put on military/patriotic displays before games.  There is something very third world dictatorship-y about this.  There was an effort to equate the NFL with patriotism.  I never saw these sorts of displays when I attended NFL and MLB  when I was young, and since we had season tickets, I went to a lot of games.  Never saw flyovers and such.

Blacks have been "discussing it" for as long as I can remember.  Too many Americans just choose not to listen.  If you have to ask what "they" are protesting, you have not been listening.  It is not complicated.

[Rerun]

Not to change the subject.... and I will start a new one..  But, Las Vegas Massacre credits Police on and off duty for savings thousands of lives (all colors).  Let's see who stands for our flag This Sunday.....

Shame on you BLM!!

[smartcookie]

I am so torn on this issue.  I definitely feel that every American should stand up for the national anthem and show respect to the flag.  However, I do feel that black Americans have been given the short end of the stick in a lot of ways.  However, I do think that the one place all Americans should unite is under our flag.  Let's pay respect to the one thing that unites us, being American.  Racism is still a big problem in this country and I can see why they are protesting, but I think protesting in other ways would be more effective and less divisive.  I hate that nothing is sacred anymore.  Not having fun, not being successful, not being healthy, not anything.  I would respect those players more if they did stand for the flag and our national anthem.  I would be more likely to listen to their causes and try to help create change. 

Some ideas for protesting would be not accepting certain sponsorships as a player.  Refusing your paycheck and asking the NFL donate it to your cause.  Asking to become a spokesperson for your cause, and making commercials and merchandise to get the word out.   Protest the good old fashioned way with signs and demonstrations at political figures offices.  Working with lobbyists to support your cause.  Contacting Congressmen to weigh in on legislation.  Start a foundation to help with your cause. 

I try my best as a social worker to support people as best I know how.  I do not look at color of people's skin, but their problems.  I do think black people are targeted by police, passed over for jobs and more.  Not every black person every time, but it happens.  In a perfect world, it should never happen.  I even read an article saying that doctors, both black and white, tend to give more pain medicine to white people then black people in the hospital.  How crazy is that?!  Pain is pain, regardless of color.  I think you all are right, this is a perception problem, a heart issue.  But I think that kneeling for the national anthem is not helping this situation at all. 

[MooseMom]

Black people have been given so much more than "the short end of the stick".  I am sure you didn't mean to be offensive.

Black NFL players have been doing all of those things you have suggested.

Nothing is more divisive than the endemic and pervasive and malignant disease than the very racism written into our Constitution (ie, the Electoral College).  The Civil War was " divisive ".  So to suggest that protesting during the anthem or under the flag is " divisive " is vastly underwhelming.

Black people have been pleading, protesting, fighting and dying for equal treatment in our hearts, minds, and laws for centuries, but you will be more likely to listen to them if, and only if, they protest in a way that is more comfortable for you?

National unity is sacred, and this is when we look to our President and to our Congress to lead the way.